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Don Lemon Tonight

Election Night; New Details of Sterling Charges; Macklemore Under Fire for Anti-Semitic Costume; California Mayor's Answer to Bullying: 'Grow a Pair'

Aired May 20, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

We begin with breaking news, the results in, in the biggest primaries and the midterms. This is Super Tuesday of 2014, primary day in Georgia, Pennsylvania, Oregon, Idaho, Arkansas, and Kentucky, races that could determine the future of the Democratic Party, the Republican Party and the Tea Party, and set the tone for November, as a matter of fact.

CNN's political team is here with the latest on every race for you.

Dana Bash is in Louisville, Kentucky, where it's a big night for Mitch McConnell. Gloria Borger, Wolf Blitzer both join me tonight from Washington.

And, Wolf, I'm going to start with you because I understand we have some new results in that you can report at this hour. What do you have for us?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Not good news for the expanded Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton families.

Chelsea Clinton, her mother-in-law, Marjorie Margolies, tried to make a comeback, to get elected as the Democratic nominee for a congressional seat in Pennsylvania, outside of Philadelphia. Marjorie Margolies, CNN now projects, will not win tonight. Brendan Boyle, a state representative, looks like he is going to cruise to a pretty impressive victory, even though Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton went into the Philadelphia area to campaign for Marjorie Margolies.

A lot of our viewers will probably note, Don, that Gloria Borger, our chief political analyst, she did a major profile of Marjorie Margolies just the other day.

And, Gloria, presumably, you have got some thoughts on what is going on.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I do.

This race was very hard to gauge. She was trying to make a political come back, as you know, Wolf, after 20 years out of Congress. She had been a first-term member of Congress when Bill Clinton, who was president, called her up at the time and asked her to cast the deciding vote on behalf of his big economic plan. She did.

She was representing this district then, which was largely Republican at the time. And she lost her bid for reelection. Now, this was kind of redemption. Bill Clinton came back. Hillary Clinton raised some money for her. And she just couldn't do it. And she lost by what looks like to be an almost 2-1 margin, even though now, Wolf, this district is largely Democratic. It is hard when you have been out of politics for two decades.

LEMON: So, Gloria, what is -- was that the issue, that she had been out of politics for two decades? Because she did bring in the Democratic big guns.

BORGER: Yes, the issue was that she had to reintroduce herself to voters. She was facing three other Democrats.

And there were some charges that she wasn't really participating in debates early on, that she wasn't an active enough campaigner. And, as she said to me, she put it, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't when you bring in the Clintons, because if you bring them in too much, you're not a candidate on your own. If you bring them in too little, people say, wait a minute, these are your in-laws here. Why aren't they coming in for you?

LEMON: Right.

BORGER: In the long-term, though, Hillary Clinton did one fund-raiser for her. But people are going to say, oh, OK, she couldn't carry her over the finish line. That might be unfair. But the Clintons haven't been campaigning for an awful lot of House candidates.

LEMON: Right. All right, stand by, Gloria.

And I want Dana to stand by as well, because, Wolf, I want you to take us through some of these other key races tonight. There were a number of them.

BLITZER: Some pretty significant ones.

And let's go to Kentucky first, because a lot of people were watching to see whether the Republican leader in the Senate, Mitch McConnell, could hold on. And the answer is yes, very easily. Mitch McConnell decisively beats Matt Bevin. Matt Bevin was one of the Tea Party favorites in Kentucky. Mitch McConnell won very impressively.

He worked really hard at it. It wasn't easy. But it looks like a 2-1 margin at least for -- on the Republican side in Kentucky. Alison Grimes will be the Democratic candidate. She got the Democratic nomination very, very easily. So now it sets the stage for a major race between Mitch McConnell and Alison Grimes.

And as Dana knows, and she is there on the scene for us, as Dana knows, this could be a very, very close race.

LEMON: And, Dana, before you answer, I want you to listen tonight what McConnell said on Grimes, and then we will talk about that. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY), MINORITY LEADER: My opponent is in this race because Barack Obama and Harry Reid want her to be in this race.

A vote for my opponent is a vote for Obamacare and the president who sold it to us on a mountain of lies. And that's why this race isn't about one party against another. It is about a government that thinks it can lie to its own citizens and get away with it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Dana, strong words. Is this going to be a close race?

DANA BASH, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It could be. The next couple of months, maybe even month alone, could help determine the answer to that question, because up until now, it has been a largely unknown Democratic candidate in Alison Lundergan Grimes. She's 35 years old.

She has won statewide as secretary of state, but beyond that really hasn't been in politics, obviously, that long, up against Mitch McConnell, who is very well-known. And if you talk to the Grimes campaign, they are happy about the fact that he is well-known and not that well-liked.

So what you're going to see, and you already are seeing, and you heard it in that sound bite just there, we heard it there in this room, he is trying hard to define her before she can define herself. It is politics 101, particularly when you're an entrenched incumbent running against an unknown candidate. He is already doing it.

But you heard also the really explicit appeal to the national level and the national message that Mitch McConnell is giving. It is not about her. It is about Barack Obama and it's about making him, Mitch McConnell, the majority leader to try to stop Obama and his policies for the last two years that he is in office.

LEMON: More results tonight. Let's go to Arkansas now.

Can we, Wolf?

BLITZER: Yes. It's going to be a fascinating race in Arkansas. The incumbent, David Pryor, easily -- Mark Pryor, I should say -- Mark Pryor, he gets the Democratic nomination. He's the incumbent senator from Arkansas.

Tom Cotton, Republican congressman from Arkansas, he will be the Republican challenger for the Senate seat in Oregon, Tom Cotton, an Iraq war veteran, a Harvard Law School grad, someone who has made a name for himself here in Washington, even though he's only been in Congress for a little while. But he's an impressive guy.

Mark Pryor will have his hands full, I presume, in Arkansas, even though, even though, Don, the polls show Pryor ahead pretty impressively, at least some of the polls in Arkansas, but there's still a long time to go between now and November. I expect this is going to be a very, very close race. But maybe Gloria has a different analysis.

(CROSSTALK)

BORGER: No.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Well, before we get to that, Wolf, I want you to get us to Georgia first, because I want to get analysis from these guys, because I really want to talk about Idaho and the Tea Party. But if you can take us to Georgia, and give us the results on that, and then we will get more analysis.

BLITZER: All right.

Georgia's Senate race is going to be significant. Michelle Nunn, she's daughter of Sam Nunn, the former senator from Georgia, longtime senator, longtime chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, someone who was always very popular from Georgia. Michelle Nunn will be the Democratic nominee for the Senate seat that Saxby Chambliss, the Republican, is giving up.

And she will face a Republican, but we don't know who that Republican is going to be. There were five Republican candidates running for the Republican senatorial nomination in Georgia. In order to avoid a runoff, you needed more than 50 percent. It doesn't look like any of these candidates -- and there are more than five standing there, the top five, any of them are going to get 50 percent, even close.

Looks like David Perdue, Jack Kingston, they look like they are ahead right now with about half of the vote counted so far, so probably one of them, but there will be a runoff first. One of them, presumably, we don't know for sure, still could be Karen Handel, although she seems to be significantly behind, at least of the tally right now -- there you see the results that we have so far.

One of those two, either Perdue or Kingston, probably will face Michelle Nunn.

LEMON: Dana, I want to ask you, excuse me, about Idaho, because tonight, John Boehner ally, his name, Representative Mike Simpson faced a major challenge from Tea Party Bryan Smith. Did Simpson's ties to Boehner hurt him in this race in Idaho?

BASH: That's part of it.

But I think it's Simpson himself and where he stands or maybe where he sits is a better way to put it. He is on the Appropriations Committee in the House. That might sound like inside baseball, but not if you are a conservative Republican and a conservative who is very upset and fed up with spending in Washington because those historically who have been on that committee are, you know, helping in writing those checks or least appropriating and directing that money. And so that is the big issue for them. This is one of those -- when you are sort of looking big picture at these primaries and what they mean for Republican Party, this is one of those that is fascinating to watch because it is a microcosm. You have the big establishment Republican groups like the Chamber of Commerce, like the NRA backing Simpson and then you have the other lesser-known, but groups that are powered by the grassroots backing his challenger.

And that's where this issue has been going and this race has been going. So, the answer to that will be determined and how the party really is going to go will be -- that will be a very important race to watch to answer that.

BORGER: Don, if I were going to sort of sum up tonight, what we are looking at, I think it would be sort of the establishment strikes back, which is that after losing about a handful of Senate seats over the last two election cycles, Republicans decided that they actually might want to take control of the Senate.

LEMON: Right.

BORGER: And that would mean controlling the candidates they nominate, who they presume or would like to get elected.

So what you saw is money coming in from groups like the Chamber of Commerce and more establishment groups, more establishment political action committees, coming in and supporting people like Mitch McConnell.

Some are saying that Mitch McConnell in his race, and after all, it might be a race to become the majority leader of the United States Senate, that that race alone could cost $100 million.

LEMON: Goodness gracious.

BORGER: Because the stakes are so high. But Republicans are determined now not to let the purity get in the way of their potential victory and control of the Senate.

LEMON: And this is a big test for them. And we're going to talk more about that and the influence of the Tea Party, or lack thereof, whichever it is. So, stick with me, everyone.

We have got lots more primary results to get to, and what all this means for November and the balance of power in Washington, as Gloria was alluding to just a moment ago.

Also, new details on the NBA's charges against Donald Sterling, including lying and destroying evidence. We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now with breaking news, the latest results from primaries all across the country tonight.

Joining me now, CNN's Dana Bash, Gloria Borger, Wolf Blitzer. I'm so glad to have them here helping me get through this. This is what they do. This is their day job. And tonight, it's their night job.

So, Wolf, we had some very important results in the governor's races tonight. Take us through it.

BLITZER: Yes, let's go two of them right now, because pretty significant, first one in Georgia. We will talk about Georgia.

The incumbent governor, Nathan Deal, he obviously gets the Republican nomination. But look who he's going to -- who is going to be challenging him on the Democratic side, a guy by the name of Jason Carter. Jason Carter happens to be the grandson of the former President of the United States, the former Governor of Georgia Jimmy Carter.

So, there he is, Jason Carter, Democratic nominee, Jason Carter against Nathan Deal. We will see what happens in Georgia. One another gubernatorial race I want to point out, Pennsylvania. There's an incumbent Republican governor. Tom Corbett, he obviously will be the Republican nominee, he will seek reelection. But Tom Wolf will be the Democratic challenger to Tom Corbett. Tom Wolf beat Allyson Schwartz, a Democratic congresswoman.

That was the seat that Marjorie Margolies, Chelsea Clinton's mother- in-law, tried to get, the Democratic nomination for that seat. But Tom Wolf will face Tom Corbett in Pennsylvania, normally a Democratic state, but there is a Republican governor in Pennsylvania, at least for now.

LEMON: Hey, so, Gloria, can we go back to this? Because this Mitch McConnell race was a very important race and it was a test.

BORGER: Yes.

LEMON: Rand Paul is a Tea Party favorite. How important was Rand Paul's support of McConnell?

BORGER: Yes, very important.

And I think Dana can tell you that. Rand Paul is a Tea Party favorite. He endorsed Mitch McConnell before the Tea Party candidate got in running against Mitch McConnell, but he stuck with his Republican leader.

And I think Mitch McConnell owes him in a very big way. And I think, as Rand Paul thinks about running for the presidency, someone like Mitch McConnell, whom he would like to see as the majority leader of the Senate, can be very useful to him.

But in terms of getting Tea Partiers to kind of take another look at Mitch McConnell, who after all has been around for decades, who is part of the establishment, who represents everything that a lot of Tea Partiers don't like, I think he was hugely important. One other thing I want to mention here, which is, that every establish candidate ran like a Tea Party candidate. It was hard to tell the difference this time around, because they had a uniting factor in opposing Obamacare. But also they united on things like immigration and trade and climate change. And so it was very hard. The establishment Republican Party ran to its right this time.

LEMON: I'm going to ask you about the balance of power, but first I want you to listen to House Speaker John Boehner this morning, what he said about the Tea Party. And then we will talk, all of you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: There's not that much -- it's not big a -- that big a difference between what you all call the Tea Party and your average conservative Republican, you know?

We're against Obamacare. We think the taxes are too high. We think the government is too big. So, I wouldn't continue to sing that same -- same song.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Dana, Gloria was just saying, it was hard to tell the difference between the Tea Party candidate and the Republican candidate. They kind of ran on the same platform.

BASH: He was saying that. And he's right.

And there certainly has been a shift to the right since 2010. It's part of the reason, maybe the reason, why Republicans were able to take the House in the sweep that they did in 2010. And John Boehner knows better than anybody the kind of shift that he has had to make as leader and the kind of compromises he was not able to make as leader.

But having said that, you know, there is still a difference -- and maybe Tea Party, we all use it, everybody uses it as a shorthanded way to talk about a certain wing of the Republican Party -- but you see it here in Kentucky. Certainly, Matt Bevin, the Republican challenger, didn't win, and didn't come close, but he still got a significant amount of Republican support.

And those are people who are just -- many of whom say that they are fed up with not just Washington, but with Republicans in Washington, and it's because of the fact that they are still spending too much money. And it really does come down to, at its core, the financial issues and debt.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hey, Wolf, I have a -- Wolf, I have a short, just a little bit of time left. I'm sorry, Gloria.

But can you just sum it up for us? What does this mean for the balance of power in Washington, this election now? What does it mean for 2016, if anything? BLITZER: Well, by all accounts, almost everyone agrees the Democrats are not going to take the majority in the House of Representatives. The Senate, the Republicans need to pick up a net pickup of six seats. That is possible. It's -- I wouldn't say it is definite by any means. It's way, way too early to take a look and see what's going to happen in November.

So much will depend on where the economy is, so many other issues. A lot of these issues become local issues. Certainly, the Republicans are going to run against Obamacare. They're going to run against the president of the United States. But some of these moderate Democrats, they're going to presumably have an opportunity to stay in office.

It'll be close. It will be very, very close, I suspect, whether the Democrats manage to maintain that majority in the U.S. Senate.

LEMON: And I'm going to pull a Wolf Blitzer here. Everybody, stand by, because we're going to talk a lot more about this and other subjects tonight.

Gloria, Wolf, Dana, thank you.

When we come right back, more bad news for Donald Sterling. His racist rants are likely to cost him the Clippers, proof that while you can pretty much say in this country anything you want, that doesn't mean that you won't pay the price for it.

And speaking of that, there is Macklemore. His song "Same Love" became an anthem for American equality. But he says, this get-up, which he wore at the show in -- at a show in Seattle, is just a random disguise -- quote -- "A Jewish stereotype never crossed my mind." A lot of people aren't buying that.

We want to know what you think about that. Tweet us using the hashtag #AskDon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

We have new details tonight of the NBA's charges against Donald Sterling. They include destroying evidence and releasing a false press statement.

Meanwhile, "The Los Angeles Times" reports that the NBA is also alleging that Sterling tried to persuade V. Stiviano to change her story and say he was not responsible for the racist statements caught on tape.

Now it looks more and more like the Sterlings have no hope of hanging on to the Clippers.

Joining me now via Skype is "Sports Illustrated" writer Michael McCann. He knows a lot about this particular subject. Also CNN political commentator Marc Lamont Hill, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach. His latest book is called "Kosher Lust." CNN legal analyst Mark O'Mara and Mel Robbins.

Welcome to all of you. I'm so glad to have you all here.

Michael, I'm going to start with you.

We heard from the commissioner today, Adam Silver today. He talked about how this process will work and the hearing that will eventually take place on June 3. And he says, it's the right thing to do.

MICHAEL MCCANN, LEGAL ANALYST, "SPORTS ILLUSTRATED": Yes, it is the right thing to do, Don, because Adam Silver knows that he has to establish that there was a process involved before expelling Donald Sterling, because he knows that Donald Sterling will likely file a lawsuit against the NBA.

So, Silver wants to be sure that he is following the constitution's guidelines for exiling an owner. And that's really what this process is about. It is about following the rules to make sure that Sterling can't later on say, you made a mistake in how you threw me out. I now have a valid legal claim.

LEMON: But he also says that it is not going to be easy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ADAM SILVER, NBA COMMISSIONER: The timing is laid out in the NBA constitution.

We're following it to the letter in terms of numbers of days that Mr. Sterling has to respond and then when the hearing will be held. And, as I said, I know we're doing the right thing here. This is an unprecedented proceeding.

Will there be bumps in the road? Presumably, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: And those bumps in the road, Mel, what do you think they are?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, one of the things that I think might happen, Don, is Donald Sterling is going to get denied this extension that he has requested. And so what is he going to do? He's going to try to stall it anyway.

And the only way he can do that, Don, is by filing a preemptive lawsuit accusing the NBA of breach of contract and seeking an injunction. And that could delay it a couple weeks. But I do still think it's not going to be, in the end, very successful at all.

LEMON: Yes, I think pretty much that Silver said, listen, we're going by our timeline. He didn't mention an extension. He didn't mention the extension.

And I think that extension, they're not going to do it. So, Mark O'Mara, this was a release that was posted online last night. The NBA's claims that Sterling lied to the league during its investigation into his comments and destroyed evidence that it was seeking. They don't appear to be swayed in any way by Sterling's public comments or his legal moves. Right?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Not at all.

They are going to follow the constitution. They're going to do it the right way. They're going to give him his due process, as it's defined by their constitution. And I agree with Mel. They're going to do it in a way that minimizes his ability to try and sue, either preemptively, which could be a good time to try, or afterwards.

I think he's going to be out. I think the question if he is going to go quietly and with any honor whatsoever or make it another mockery.

LEMON: And what about the allegations that he tried to get V. Stiviano to change her story, Mark?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's not shocking.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Mark O'Mara, and then I will get Marc Lamont Hill.

(CROSSTALK)

Go ahead, Mark O'Mara.

O'MARA: OK.

Well, within the context of what the NBA considers, that's a horrendous attitude that is going to work against him. If he ever got near a court of law and he did that, this is his own separate felony charge he could be facing. So, he needs to be real careful what he is doing. If in fact he is trying to get somebody to commit perjury by coming in under oath, if that what she is going to do and lie, that's a separate felony.

LEMON: Yes, then destroying evidence.

All right, Marc, Marc Lamont Hill, this is for you. I want to hear more about what the commissioner, Adam Silver, said today, because I thought it was a fascinating press conference. Let's listen, and then we will talk.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SILVER: There is something particular about race issues when it comes to sports and maybe the NBA in particular. It is no secret we have a league that the majority of the players are African-American. The vast majority of owners are not.

Within the boundaries of my authority, I feel an obligation to protect the people who are within this league. (END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: I felt there he was speaking directly to Americans and not to people who own teams. Marc, the players have been concerned about this when it first came out that it not drag out. Does this help protect that relationship, do you think?

HILL: Oh, it absolutely protects the relationship?

He's going to be -- go down as the most popular commissioner in NBA already, because he protected the players' interest. The player said that they would strike if he did not do this.

Some of this is pragmatism. As much as I think he has the right heart here, he also knows that he can't have a league where players are sitting out. It is bad for business. But it also means that only certain types of offenses get treated in this way. If Donald Sterling had been on tape saying awful things about women, saying that women shouldn't be owners and that women were terrible people and that he didn't like women and that he didn't care if women came to the games or not, I doubt that he would lose his team.

We have a different attitude toward racism than sexism.

LEMON: Well, Rabbi, he also -- it was also mentioned and what the league plans to file is that he's mentioned disparaging things of course about African-Americans, but then compared them to Jewish people, saying they don't support their community as much.

Now that is part of this investigation, if you want to call it that.

RABBI SHMULEY BOTEACH, AUTHOR, "THE KOSHER SUTRA": Well, Don, you're right, so let's be clear.

Donald Sterling is an embarrassment to the Jewish community. And I would normally never bring up his ethnicity, but he himself brought it up. He dragged the Jewish community into his racist rant when he said that we Jews are so good at taking care of our colleagues, but the African-American community is not as good.

That is so despicable, because we Jews are the ones who taught the world in the first chapter of Genesis that every human being is created in the image of God. Go have a class on your Judaism before you come and drag our community into this. The Jewish community, it believes in the equality, the infinite value of every human being.

And Donald Sterling is not known for his involvement in our community. He may be doing great philanthropy behind the scenes, and I don't want to venture any guess on that. But he's not involved in pro-Israel activism that I know of. He's not involved in philanthropy to my knowledge.

So when he makes a statement that "we do so much for the Jews," I can mention ten names now of global Jewish philanthropists who are American who do amazing things. Donald Sterling's invoking other people's kindness to defend himself. And just to follow what Marc said, it's not just that he made this racist rant. It's that he's so unrepentant. That's really the problem. I believe in repentance. I believe in forgiveness. Had Donald Sterling been caught in a private conversation in this rant and he got up and said, "I'm so sorry. I'm so ashamed of myself. I am going to repent. I'm going to do action, like giving a lot of charity to -- to..."

LEMON: Right.

BOTEACH: The people would have forgiven him. But he refuses to. There's always apology, but then he attacks others. And that's the problem.

LEMON: It may have been a different story, had he shown some repentance right in the very beginning.

So Michael McKean, the question is what happens next? We heard from Adam Silver. He says he has until -- until Tuesday to respond, and then they're going ahead June 3 to do their thing.

MCKEAN: That's right. And there is the possibility as commissioner (AUDIO GAP)

LEMON: Michael, we're having a hard time hearing you. Michael, of course, is on Skype. But again, I think what he was saying, is the chances of him seeking an injunction, that is a possibility.

But again, they're moving on. Next Tuesday, he has to respond. And then after that, on June 3, they're going to vote. And then after that, according to Adam Silver, he said they're going to hire an investment banker to deal with this, because they he have a judiciary -- fiduciary responsibility, and then try to sell it to the highest bidder.

So Michael McKean, thank you very much. Everybody else, stick around. When we come right back, Macklemore, you know him for his anthem of tolerance, "Same Love." So what's he doing dressing up like this? A lot of people say it is anti-Semitic, and we're going to get into that. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Macklemore won best rap performance at the 2014 Grammys. But he changed his look since then.

He calls this a random costume worn during show in Seattle. A lot of other people really call it anti-Semitic.

I'm back with Marc Lamont Hill, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach, and Mark O'Mara and Mel Robbins.

We have to put these pictures up. Look at the pictures. OK? So Macklemore is in hot water after he wore that costume on stage on Friday that some consider to be a caricature of a Jewish man. Rabbi, intentionally or unintentionally, is Macklemore's costume anti- Semitic?

BOTEACH: Well, I don't care about intention. I look at action. But let's face it: the important ingredient here is that he wore this while singing hi song, "Thrift Shop." So of course it was intentional.

And here, you have the same thing with Donald Sterling. If you get caught with racism, anti-Semitism, I want to see a forgiving country. Apologize for it; take full responsibility. People forgive you and move on.

But instead, he gives us this ridiculous garbage, this nonsense, that he accidentally put on a hook nose and a beard and saying about how cheap people are, and only want to buy stuff at the thrift shop. But it wasn't anti-Semitism.

LEMON: Those two pictures that we have on the side of it, the black and white pictures, were sort of older traditional depictions of Jewish people. Correct?

BOTEACH: It's the ultimate. It's the ultimate anti-Semitic picture of the Jew, the hook-nose Jew, the Jew who has this ethnic look, this very religious look. Here's my beard. Here we are, guys.

LEMON: Yes.

BOTEACH: And especially when you put it together with the song, that's why he did it. He was showing the "Jewish" costume for "Thrift Shop." And I forgive him. Just say you're sorry, stop the ridiculous defense.

LEMON: When one of my producers showed it to me and said, "What do you think of this?"

And I said, "Why is he dressed up like either a religious Jew or an Hassidic Jew from time gone by," right?

And they were like, "Well, he's saying he's not."

So that's the first thing people thought of. And I'm glad you mentioned the beard, right? Mark, did I hear you? Were you in agreeance her here or were you saying -- Mark -- Mark O'Mara?

O'MARA: I'm not in agreement. I think we have to look at what Macklemore did in context. He doesn't have anything in his background which suggests any type of anti-Semitic behavior or bigoted behavior.

This was something where what he did, he apologized for it almost quickly.

What I like about it is this. We in the media are now telling people, everyone we are looking, we're going to inquire and we want an answer. And in this case, what he did was, I thought, perfect. He said, "Look, I really didn't mean it. If I offended anybody, I'm sorry. And by the way, now that I know about the ADL, which I didn't know about before, the Anti-Defamation League, I think they're a great organization. Look at their Web site and support them."

I think he did what we want. If it was a faux pas, I think it was...

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on. Marc Lamont Hill. He said he didn't know about the ADL? I mean, come on. Macklemore is a grown man, right?

HILL: He also spelled "anti-Semitic" wrong. He may not know what the ADL is. And I'll grant him that.

Here's my problem. If he did what Mark O'Mara just described, I would probably feel a little bit differently about this. His initial response was on Twitter where he essentially said, "A witch nose and a beard. That's anti-Semitic?" He dismissed it. His first is right what you see there. Fake witch's nose, wig and beard equals random costume. Not my idea of a stereotype, anybody." He was defensive. He rejected it.

Look, I can't get into Macklemore's head. I don't know what he thinks. My gut says somebody who went so heavy to court the progressive vote and to be seen as the progressive artist probably didn't intentionally do something anti-Semitic, but it's still anti- Semitic. It's clearly anti-Semitic. Just say look...

ROBBINS: And he apologized.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Hang on, hang on, hang on. OK, hold on, hold on. Let me read -- let me read this piece. Because you mentioned, Marc, he was responding, really, to Seth Rogen. It was a Twitter battle between then.

Macklemore -- Seth Rogen said, "Macklemore, first you trick people into thinking you're a rapper, and now you trick them into thinking you're Jewish?"

Macklemore responded with what you said, "A fake witch's nose, a wig and beard equal random costume, not my idea of a stereotype of anybody."

And then Seth Rogen responded and said, "Macklemore, really? Because if I told someone to put together an anti-Semitic Jewish costume, they'd have that same exact shopping list!"

Mel Robbins, go ahead.

ROBBINS: You know, look, it's kind of dangerous for me to comment on this, because I'm not Jewish and this doesn't hit any sort of historical hot button for me. But I saw the nose and I was like, "Oh, my God, he's the Wicked Witch of the West." And I thought he looked more like Sasha Cohen in one of his movies, in character.

And I get what you're saying, Rabbi, about the fact that he's singing a song about a thrift shop, and so that kind of adds weight. But the truth is, unlike Sterling -- and you're trying to draw a comparison here -- he doesn't have a history of any kind of anti-Semitic behavior whatsoever.

BOTEACH: Well, can I add something here?

ROBBINS: And in fact, he's written songs about tolerance.

LEMON: I've got to go. If you can do it in 10 seconds.

ROBBINS: I buy his explanation.

BOTEACH: Well, let me just say, the average witch, a witch doesn't have a beard.

ROBBINS: I give him the benefit of the doubt. And I accept his apology. And we all need to move on.

BOTEACH: A witch doesn't have a beard. He's also involved in the 9/11 truthing. Come on, he has a controversial history. Let's not pretend that he's some Boy Scout. He's not.

LEMON: Yes. And listen, we can't pretend that -- it's like you can't claim ignorance of the law. You can't claim ignorance of racism or anti-Semitism or anything else.

But it's good that he apologized. I think you all would agree. And we'll hold him at his word and see what happens after this.

So thank you, all: Rabbi Boteach, Marc Lamont Hill, thank you.

Mark O'Mara and Mel Robbins, I want you to stay with me, because coming up, a California mayor whose answer to bullying is -- his words; these are his words -- grow a pair.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Most of us have a story of at least one run-in with a bully when we were growing up. But a lot of people say bullying today has reached epidemic proportions. Here's CNN's Sara Sidner.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): The sobs of an 8-year- old girl in Minnesota as she explains to her mom what it feels like to be bullied.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It makes me feel sad.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And scared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I don't like it. SIDNER: Her mother, frustrated with the school's response, posts the video online to show the pain bullying causes children. Almost 2,000 miles away, the mayor of Porterville, California, says he is all too familiar with the problem.

MAYOR CAMERON HAMILTON, PORTERVILLE, CALIFORNIA: I think it's a huge deal these days. I was bullied as a child. And my event started in 7th grade with a guy that kept pulling a knife on me.

SIDNER That may come as a surprise to those who were outraged over his comments at a they council meeting discussing safety zones for bullied children.

HAMILTON: I'm against bullying. But I'm getting damn tired of it being used as a mantra for everything and the ills the world when all most people have to do is grow a pair.

VIRGINIA GURROLA, PORTERVILLE CITY COUNCIL MEMBER: It is hard to stand up and grow a pair when you're maybe a 10-year-old little girl.

HAMILTON: Then maybe the other 10-year-olds that think they want to stop bullying will stand up for her.

SIDNER (on camera): Did you mean to sound sort of insensitive and even sexist with this comment?

HAMILTON: I don't think so. I think it was just something I was thinking about. I's read a book a while back called "Grow a Pair," and it was in the back of my mind. And when I'm thinking, they want government to solve every issue that there is. And so I said, "They need to grow a pair." In other word, be responsible for yourself. Be responsible for your friends. And it kind of went viral.

SIDNER (voice-over): He worries about whether we're creating a generation of whiners.

HAMILTON: I think the people that actually stand up are getting punished for standing up. And we've seen if time and time again.

SIMONE BIENNE, HUMAN BEHAVIORIST: I would like to say that the mayor is actually coming off as a bully.

SIDNER: Human behaviorist and therapist Simone Bienne doesn't think Americans are coddling their children.

BIENNE: If we put responsibility on children to do an adult's job or to do a politician's job or to do a teacher's job, then what we're basically doing is we're asking children -- children! -- to be adults.

SIDNER: As for the mayor of Porterville, he took care of his own childhood bully what some might call the old-fashioned way.

HAMILTON: Finally, it came to a head, dropped him like a rag doll. Everything was cool again.

SIDNER: He says he does not advocate violence, but in this instance, it seemed to work for him.

Sara Sidner, CNN, Los Angeles.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, Sara, thank you very much for that.

You just heard Mayor Cameron Hamilton of Porterville, California. He joins me now along with Mark Tapson, a cultural critic for Acculturated.com, and Mark O'Mara and Mel Robbins are back with me now.

So Mayor, of course, I have to start with you. Your remarks have upset a lot of people. Do you want to take this opportunity right now to apologize to victims of bullying for saying that kids should grow a pair and stick up for their damn selves?

HAMILTON: I think you might have just put some words in my mouth, because what I said was people have to stick up for themselves. I didn't use the word "youngsters." I didn't use the word "10-year-old girls."

So I'm just saying that in today's world, we've gotten to the point where we don't take any accountability for ourselves. Or for those that are around us, our friends. Or for what we're doing in our schools.

LEMON: So you think that your remarks were taken out of context? Because I think most people are opposed to, you know, to the words "grow a pair."

HAMILTON: I believe that we were in an adult council meeting with no children around. And I probably could have used my words better, because it grew into national attention, of course. But it also caused a national debate on the merits of what's going on in our great nation.

LEMON: Well, that is -- that's actually a very good point. Who's groaning there? Was that -- was that Mel?

ROBBINS: Me. Yes.

O'MARA: That had to be -- I know it was at least me. But I'll wait my turn.

LEMON: So, well -- there, you're going to have to take it now. Because you have you at least two people who are not very happy with what you said. And we'll start with Mel. Go ahead.

ROBBINS: Look. So Mark, you and I are probably going to say the same things. And with all due respect, Mayor, you're talking about kids growing a pair. I think you need to grow some brain cells.

Because basically, who's going to teach kids how to stand up to bullying except for schools and adults? And so, when I think about the way to respond to bullying that not only these days happens in school hallways and school classrooms, but happens on social media, is I say to myself, well, schools are the one place where kids should be safe both physically and mentally. And kids that bully are taught how to bully, typically at home.

And how are we going to teach kids how to respond to bullying except for to have communities inside of schools that have a zero tolerance policy and that stick up for kids that are getting bullied.

LEMON: Mel, I want to get in here. Because listen, I think everyone is sort of getting caught up...

HAMILTON: I want to get in there, also.

LEMON: Yes, yes, hang on. Hang on, Mayor. Everyone is getting caught up on in what the mayor had to say instead of what his intention -- maybe the intention of what he was saying.

There does seem to be a lot of reporting on bullying. And some people feel that, you know, being pushed around a little bit -- I'm not advocating violence -- is part of the maturation process.

ROBBINS: Of course. And so is teaching kids how to respond to it, Don.

LEMON: When I was a kid -- when I was a kid, Mel -- let me finish. When I was a kid, if someone picked on me, hit on me or said something, I would go home, and my parents would say, "Did you hit them back?"

And they would -- and if I said, no, they'd say, "Go back down the street and hit them harder." And that -- that sort of helped me mature and helped me defend myself.

ROBBINS: So that's -- what about kids that don't have parents, Don, that are guiding them to do the right thing? And I don't think hitting a kid back is actually the right thing do.

LEMON: OK, go ahead. Mayor, you want to defend yourself?

HAMILTON: I would love to get in on this, yes. Not trying to defend myself, but I do want it speak on these zero-tolerance policies that are in our schools right now. They're teaching just the opposite. They're teaching our children that want to stand up for themselves to stand down, because they're going to get in the same amount of trouble as the kid that's causing the problem in the first place.

ROBBINS: If they hit somebody, yes.

HAMILTON: I also don't know if they're -- of they hit somebody, what?

ROBBINS: If they hit somebody, yes, they should get in trouble, because...

HAMILTON: They're not allowed to stand up?

ROBBINS: ... that's not how you deal with this situation. You may have dealt like that 20 years ago...

HAMILTON: I think that is very naive.

ROBBINS: ... but that doesn't mean it's appropriate in 2014, Mayor.

LEMON: Let him finish. Go ahead. Let him finish, and then we'll...

HAMILTON: I think that's a very naive point of view. I think that we, as a nation, have told Ukraine to stick up for themselves...

ROBBINS: For crying out loud.

HAMILTON: ... Vietnam to stick up for themselves. And all these other countries, and now you're telling American...

ROBBINS: You're talking national -- national policy overseas and how we treat kids in school. That's ridiculous.

LEMON: Mel. Mel, let him finish. And then you'll get in.

Good ahead, Mayor. Finish.

HAMILTON: When you -- when you speak over somebody and we're having a strong debate, it shows somewhat of the ability of others, not to bully them that you're doing, correct?

LEMON: Yes. OK. So stand by, everyone.

Mark Tapson, you wrote an article, It's entitled, "We are Raising a Generation of Wimps." Do you think that the mayor has a point that you can't protect children from all things all the time?

MARK TAPSON, CULTURE CRITIC, ACCULTURED.COM: Absolutely. I mean, that article wasn't specifically addressed to bullying, but it was just about our culture in general, in which we are very overprotective. We have a sort of a zeal of overprotectiveness to try to create ultra-safe environments for our children.

And it's just not -- it's not realistic. And I don't think we're serving our children very well as children or as the adults they will be in the long run by doing that.

In terms of bullying, I think it's easy for us to get fixated on the phrase "grow a pair," which is, of course, not appropriate for kids. But I -- I'm in agreement with the mayor on the sentiment behind it. Which is that we need to teach kids -- parents and adults need to teach kids how to deal with these things. We need to emotionally and psychologically and even physically, if necessary, prepare kids for dealing with bullies.

LEMON: Mark O'Mara, you've been dying to get in here. You can talk about the impact of bullying, as well. But go on. What's your response?

O'MARA: Let's keep it in context. The mayor said, his sort of Neanderthal response was said at a time when we were talking about getting a safe place for children who were bullied. So we are talking about children being bullied. And the suggestion that a 6- or 8- or 10-year-old has to grow a pair, what a pair of side arms? How would you like the child to respond to bullying?

You seem to be suggesting that what we should do is just teach our children to react to violence with violence. That is not an appropriate schematic for a good well-balanced child. I don't want to grow wimps. But when you say grow a pair and get over it. And then what you did and what your history was, was to knock the heck out of the guy who was pulling a knife on you, I'm not saying that that's the best response anyway. It certainly should not be the response that we teach our children.

There are more appropriate ways to handle violence. Because what we do know is people who are getting bullied are jumping off towers in Florida, killing themselves. Or they're getting guns out of their Mom and Dad's houses and taking them to school and maybe doing what you're telling them to do, which is to take it into their own hands.

They're children. Teach them as children. And don't try to make them adults when they're 8 and 10 years old.

LEMON: OK, Mark. All right. Hold that thought, everyone. We'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now. We're back now talking about bullying. And I have to say, during the commercial break, everyone in the studio, about seven people, six or seven people, in here said, "You know what? The best way that they dealt with bullies is to, in a sense, fight back, to stick up for yourself." So my final thoughts to you. First I'm going to start with you, Mayor.

HAMILTON: Well, first, I would want to thank you for allowing me to speak. But I want you to understand that I say that there's a mantra now with bullying, where we don't even define what we think bullying really is. And then when we speak up that somebody should stick up for themselves, we automatically think that it's violent back and physical way. There is a way of sticking up -- am I running out of time?

LEMON: Yes. We're running -- I understand. There's an appropriate response to everything.

HAMILTON: I'm sorry.

LEMON: Yes. So I understand.

HAMILTON: There is an appropriate response for everything, and not everything is bullying.

LEMON: Mark, quickly.

O'MARA: I just think that bullying is, in fact, an epidemic, and it's been done because social media, the impersonality of social media, makes it so much easier. And we have to deal with it with our young children or we're going to deal with it as young adults.

LEMON: Mark Tapson.

TAPSON: Well, I think there are various ways to deal with bullying, and I want to stick up for violence, defensive violence as one of those tools in the tool box. Anybody...

LEMON: I've got ten seconds. Mel.

TAPSON: Anybody who's ever...

ROBBINS: Seriously, he only people that need to grow a set of -- a set of whatever are educators so that they can teach kids how to respond to this appropriately as a community.

LEMON: OK. I wish we had more time to talk, but we had to deal with a lot of politics at the top of the show. Thank you very much, guys. I appreciate all of you.

That's it for us tonight. I'll see you back here tomorrow at the same time, same place. "AC 360" starts right now.