Return to Transcripts main page

Dr. Drew

Before He Became Killer

Aired May 28, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, vulnerable, quiet, invisible -- words his behavior therapist used to describe this kid before he became a killer. She`s here with us exclusively to tell us the warning signs she witnessed and how people had tried to help him.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening.

Samantha Schacher is my co-host.

And, of course, coming up our behavior bureau is here and getting ready, they`ll be listening throughout the show and bringing us their comments.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, and also, we have an exclusive with Elliot Rodger`s former behavioral specialist. You`re not going to want to miss it.

PINSKY: OK, she knew him well as a young man, right?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: All right. First up, new details about this young man who went on a killing spree in Santa Barbara. I think everyone is aware he posted a series of really bizarre videos on YouTube where he specifically lashed out at men who had relationships with women and attractive women for not wanting to have sex with him.

Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ELLIOT RODGER, ALLEGED SHOOTER: On the day of retribution, I am going to enter the hottest sorority house of UCSB. I will slaughter every single spoiled stuck up blond (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Elliot Rodger stabbed to death three men in his apartment, then drove to a sorority house and opened fire. Two women died outside there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: According to a witness, there was a dark colored BMW, white occupant, a male wearing a white shirt.

RODGER: Wanted a girlfriend. Wanted sex.

PINSKY: He had a disconnect. He had emptiness. He was trying to solve a problem that he couldn`t solve.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He thought that he was entitled to women, that he was entitled to wealth.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Six deputies conducted a wellbeing check on Rodger after his mother discovered other chilling videos he posted online.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The police should have showed up with the mother right there. He looked at the police and gave them a story and they believed it. The mother would have seen right through that.

PINSKY: He went to video games, he went to violent movies, he won`t to pornography -- all the things that can make him only sicker.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Vanessa Barnett, social commentator and host of hiphollywood.com. Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of the "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio, and Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University.

Here are some of the tweets coming in from you guys. Here`s one, quote, "Clearly delusional and disturbed. Not sure why no one noticed and had him committed."

Here`s another. "Hey, what about the mental health professional he was seeing? He had a psychiatrist but it seems to have done little."

Judy, he was seeing a couple psychiatrists, multiple therapists. Is it fair to blame them for him not wanting to comply?

JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: I don`t think it`s fair to blame them, Dr. Drew. And there`s multiple places in this manifesto where he basically said he was too good for any therapist, that no therapist could help him, that all them gave him useless advice. So if he`s going into therapy with that type of attitude, unfortunately no change can happen.

PINSKY: Well, what about medication? He was given medication. He refused to take it.

If this guy is psychotic, potentially aggressive, didn`t somebody have an obligation to somehow, somehow encourage him to get this in.

HO: I think that they should have had more time to give him the information needed to be comfortable with the medication. The medication he was prescribed was Risperdom. So, that`s a very atypical antipsychotic. It has a lot of strange side effects for many people.

PINSKY: No, wait a minute, Judy. It`s called a typical antipsychotic but prescribed commonly.

HO: I get it.

PINSKY: Nobody wants to take a medication, but no one wants to become a murderer, either, or kill a bunch of people.

HO: But wait a minute, it has side effects like tardive dyskinesia - -

PINSKY: Rarely, which is worse outcome, the tardive dyskinesia or the murder, which is worse?

HO: Well, but did the psychiatrist give him information for him to feel comfortable? When you go on Google, that`s the first thing that comes up. So, if he`s doing self-research, that`s not very, very helpful.

PINSKY: Right, Sam, that`s why you have to rely on professionals. If I had a child that needed the medication, I`d be using leverage to make sure the child got medication for whatever he or she needed for whatever the professional recommended.

SCHACHER: Well, I would hope more parents have that sense, Dr. Drew, that you have.

But here`s the thing, yes, when you read this manifesto or watch these disturbing disgusting YouTube videos, clearly he`s suffering or was suffering from some sort of mental, severe mental illness, but he also was completely void of any sort of empathy. He only felt sorry for himself. He was completely callous and, you know what, he seemed to boast on the fact that he would enjoy killing his stepmother, his roommate.

So, I think he`s also evil to the core. Can he not be both?

PINSKY: OK. We have two nodding heads alongside you. Let`s start with Leeann first. Go ahead, Leeann.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Oh my gosh, you guys. I read this manifesto. Every single word of it, I was almost obsessed. We`ve got to remember this guy murdered six people -- two women, four boys. He slashed half of them and then he killed the other three with a gun.

Now, let`s remember, he hated women so much. He could only see his point of view from the world.

PINSKY: Right.

TWEEDEN: Everybody was against him. Why aren`t they sleeping with me? What does that guy a have? He`s a slob, he`s disgusting, he`s ugly. Why does he get the beautiful blond girl?

And let`s face it, this guy was so strange and weird, he probably did have Asperger`s. That didn`t cause him to murder. I hate when people say that.

But it did make him socially strange. When you`re talking -- you`re a 22-year-old kid and he`s like, I`m magnificent, it`s glorious. Of course, he wasn`t going to fit in.

Those life coaches he got should have told him, hey, dude, become a little more hip. Don`t talk like that. And maybe do these things. He wanted to hang out with them because he was lonely. They did nothing for them.

VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: On top of that --

PINSKY: Vanessa, go ahead.

BARNETT: He boasted and bragged about the fact he could trick the cops. There were people really trying to get people in his life to change something or to stop this awful tragedy from happening. And even then, these people are in the house. They`re looking at him in his face. They`re talking to him.

He`s, oh, I can trick them, too. This man was highly, very disturbed.

(CROSSTALK)

TWEEDEN: His mom didn`t do more, because his mom controlled all the money and knew and just wanted to get him away.

PINSKY: Well, I don`t know about get him away but they had leverage and didn`t use it. Judy, look at this video posted on YouTube days before he went out and killed a bunch of kids.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RODGER: You have to watch other guys, able to walk around and enjoy their lives with beautiful girlfriends at their side. I can only imagine how amazing their sex lives must be. I`ve never had any sex or anything like that. It`s such an injustice. I don`t know why you girls hate me so much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Judy, on some level, I, you know, hate it -- people hate me for humanizing somebody, but if you or I were charged with helping this guy, the first thing we would think to ourselves is what a sad case. It would make us feel terrible.

HO: That`s right. It does make me feel terrible to see that part of the footage. You know what, there is something he lacks which is this idea of a theory of mind. He`s so concrete. The things he focuses on that he doesn`t have. Instead of thinking about what it really is like to be in another person`s shoes. But I think that those values could have been instilled at an earlier time.

PINSKY: Yes, at an earlier age.

HO: His parents should have been there.

TWEEDEN: What do you think about, he always says sex and love together. What does that mean? He`s like, oh, they get the sex and love from these women. Sex and love don`t always go together.

PINSKY: Yes, but, Leeann, several people tweeted us, you know, why didn`t he buy sex, see a prostitute or something if it was that important?

TWEEDEN: I think he was too good for that.

PINSKY: No, he said, I want to be loved. Everyone wants that. I mean, some males -- listen, it`s complicated, this guy.

In addition to there being some sort of problem with his ability to understand social cues and be socially, to navigate through social systems, there was a severe narcissism. As you mentioned, Leeann, he thought he was glorious, ideas of grandiosity, entitlement. All that needed to be dealt with and unfortunately that was missed.

Speaking of, Judy, you mentioned seeing him, treating him earlier for what might be an Asperger`s like, cool it potentially, navigate socially.

Next, I have a behavioral therapist who dealt with Elliot at a much younger age. She`ll tell us her observations when she joins the behavioral bureau after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LENNY SHAW: You would immediately see how awkward he was in just about any situation and how shy he was and how he was kind of afraid to make sense. I did see him on more than one occasion actually with tears in his eyes. Now, I`m not trying to humanize him. He was still crying -- he wasn`t outright crying but his eyes were moist. He was still talking about, you know, about his own -- about himself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam.

We`re talking about that young man there who killed six people and injured a dozen more. This has been once again our most tweeted about story of the day.

Let us bring in our behavioral bureau. I have Andrea Letamendi, psychologist. I`ve got Jennifer Keitt, life coach. Erica America, Z100 radio personality and psychotherapist.

On the phone, I have Deborah Smith, whom I promised you. She was Elliot`s high school principal and also was his behavioral specialist at one time.

Deborah, you were observing Elliot. You got to know him pretty well. What was your reaction when you heard he had done this?

DEBORAH SMITH, ELLIOT`S FORMER HIGH SCHOOL PRINCIPAL (via telephone): Well, first of all, let me just say publicly that my deepest condolences go out to all of the families and the victims and the friends and people that have been affected by this tragedy. That to me is first and foremost.

My initial reactions once I realized that it was who we affectionately refer to as our Elliot, I was devastated. I -- I couldn`t imagine that this really was the Elliot that we knew at Independence High School. I was devastated.

I didn`t even know what to do with it. I didn`t know how to process it, I didn`t know who to talk to. I was really shook up, very shook up and I`m working through much of that.

PINSKY: Now, what you observed was a kid who was quietly and socially awkward. I also understand you saw a severe panic episode where he froze. Can you tell me about that?

SMITH: Yes, I can`t -- I didn`t see it. I was actually not at the school when it happened. It was shared with me when the school called me to bring me into the situation and sit in on meetings to talk about what we might be able to do to help him.

So, it was described to me, but the way it was described was at the end of a school day, it was early on in the semester, and he was on his way out to the car at dismissal time, and there were a large number of students at the school he was originally attending before he came to Independence and he just froze. He just had a panicked moment and literally could not move.

PINSKY: Was he bullied at all?

SMITH: Not to my awareness, no. I mean, it happened very early on in his enrollment at Taft High School, so I don`t even really think that the students were even really aware of him. In the sense that -- you know, he was just trying to get acclimated. He was a new student at the school. Nobody ever mentioned during any of those meetings that he was being bullied or targeted or picked on at all.

SCHACHER: Deborah, did you ever see him show emotion? Did you ever see him laugh, cry? Did he ever open up to you?

SMITH: Not usually. Not typically. You know, his typical response was pretty flat. He didn`t really want a lot of attention paid on him. He would smile if you, you know, were able to engage with him in a way, you know, in a conversation that was something particularly interesting for him.

PINSKY: Erica?

ERICA AMERICA, Z100: Yes, I just -- I`m having a difficulty, you know, understanding this kind of description of him as being very quiet. Maybe it`s because he was young before it started to develop. But between his writings and videos, this guy was so delusional, so smart, so cunning and anti-social, I find it really --

PINSKY: And rigid.

AMERICA: -- hard to believe whether his family, a therapist, because I have been a therapist and seen people who were quiet on the outside but let it out in the session. They tell you what they`re feeling.

And the fact that nothing was done, especially, I really want to know if you guys can help me understand this. When was that last video of him in the car when he says he`s going to slaughter everyone? When was that posted? Was it in enough time people could have done things or literally the night before? Because if I as a complete stranger had seen that video, I would have called the police -- I mean, that`s just crazy.

PINSKY: It was the day before, Erica. Let`s go back to when he was in high school and did anybody think he had a psychotic process? Were there psychiatrists involved? Why wasn`t there more done then? Deborah?

SMITH: Well -- he, you know, obviously I have some limitations in terms of what I can speak to because as you know, that much of anything that we were providing support for would be considered confidential.

I can tell you that never, ever once in school, never a teacher, no support person, no counselor ever came to me and shared with me at all that they had concerns about him expressing or verbalizing any kind of rage or anger. Never. Never saw it. Never saw any kind of acting out behaviors. Nothing of the sort.

PINSKY: OK.

SMITH: I -- I was completely taken aback by --

PINSKY: Jennifer?

SMITH: -- that video.

AMERICA: How old was he at that time?

PINSKY: He was in high school, Erica. Jennifer, go ahead.

SMITH: He would have been between the ages of 16 and 18.

PINSKY: Jennifer?

JENNIFER KEITT, LIFE COACH: Were his parents in any way involved in any of the --

PINSKY: Oh, they were very active. No, no --

KEITT: -- throughout the high school situation with him as well?

PINSKY: Jennifer, I`ve heard nothing that they were extremely involved. Deborah, you back that up, yes?

SMITH: Yes, they came to the school. They attended all the various events, functions, parent conferences, you know, normal --

PINSKY: Was there any sense that people were minimizing and trying to mainstream a kid that they hadn`t quite given enough therapeutic support to yet?

SMITH: No.

PINSKY: Drea, you have a question?

ANDREA LETAMENDI, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, oftentimes when we see anti-social behavior and violence in adulthood, there are warning signs. There are red flags during adolescence and teen years.

I`m surprised nobody saw aggressive behavior or rule breaking behavior that would have been considered a warning flag. So, my question, did anyone notice anything?

PINSKY: Deborah said no. Deborah said she had not a single hint of that sort of thing.

But, then, again, we don`t know how many people have shut the door and heard this private thoughts. There might have been a lot of that stuff milling around in his head.

Sam, do you have a question?

SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew, after hearing from Deborah, what`s your take on all this now?

PINSKY: Yes. First of all, thanks, Deborah, for joining us. I do appreciate it.

I think it`s a swing and a miss. The fact is that there should have been -- there is treatment -- let`s say that this kid had Asperger`s or some high-functioning autism, something like that. There are a myriad of interventions.

We heard yesterday from an autism expert who felt he would have been treatable if the right treatments had been applied. Then in terms of his narcissism, which was very rigid and evolving during high school, somebody should have shut the door, drilled in on what was going on in his head a little bit and been able to help him with that as well.

And then finally, the fact that he was not given medication, even though he was having paralytic anxiety, was delusional. In his manifesto, his experience of what happened in high school is profoundly different than what Deborah just described here. Somebody should have been able to do something and I just -- we`re all trying to get our head around it.

Put the panel back up here.

Erica, Drea, Jennifer, that`s what we`re trying to get our head around, right? Why didn`t somebody see something? Because it should have been able to have been addressed.

Now, the family for the killer was in debt when they split. There was a split family here, even though they were involved with him while he was in high school. And the kid became obsessed with money. We`ll see if that had any role to play here, after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: You knew immediately it was him.

SHAW: Oh, yes. Yes. Yes, I knew immediately it was him. He did show some emotion. He wasn`t always the person, that scary person that you see in that -- particularly in that final video.

RODGER: Tomorrow is the day of retribution, the day in which I will have my revenge.

DAD OF VICTIM: He had no idea who he was killing. If he was able to communicate to Veronika, she would have reached out to him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Now, listen, you see the difference there between what Deborah described of a kid that was quiet and shy and seemingly harmless, and what he became as an adult and what Lenny observed, each stage had potential for intervention and some reason the ball was dropped.

I`m back with Sam, Judy, and Jennifer. Joining us, Mark Eiglarsh from speaktomark.com.

New information about Elliot Rodger`s child is coming to light. Parents split when he was about 7. He wrote about it in great detail in his 141-page manifesto.

Sam, tell us more about that divorce.

SCHACHER: Yes, I read the divorce documents. Yes, according to his manifesto, he was outraged, shocked his parents were getting a divorce, especially because his mom said it would never happen. Also, he wrote that he cried. He remembered crying and fearing he would have to live in two different households. He also mentioned that the happy times he spent with his parents as a family were now gone.

PINSKY: Yes, of course. Any child would feel that way, but, Judy, why did he feel the need to share that with the world? As though the world would be deeply interested in the minutia of that child experience 20 years ago?

HO: Well, as we talked about, he has a very narrowly focused attention about his own narcissism. We`ve discussed that a lot as we`ve talked about this story. He believes everybody should care about his pain and that his pain was the world`s to know and the world that had to pay for the fact he didn`t get what he wanted.

PINSKY: That`s right.

So, Jennifer, his world was the world, and therefore, when he`s in pain, the world is in pain and the world needs to be aware of it, yes?

KEITT: You know, I agree with that wholeheartedly, but Dr. Drew, too, when a child leaves your home at 18, I just don`t think enough is being discussed in terms of what happens. I get it that we`re talking about how his high school was.

I am a mom. I have three kids right now in their 20s, and I am telling you, the children that I graduated at high school, the day that they walk on college campuses or leave my home, they are completely different people.

And it`s that tracking system that we`ve got to continue to have with them. You are absolutely correct that every single day from the time that he was 18 to 22 years old, there was time for intervention -- time for moms, time for dads, time for friends, time for people.

PINSKY: I can`t tell -- people go, oh, the kid`s 18, what am I supposed to do? You have leverage. They`re not economically independent. You have tons and tons of leverage. Use the leverage. You save lives.

KEITT: Use it.

PINSKY: We obtained some of the divorce documents that was filed by his m in 1999. Here we have a few excerpts. His mom claimed, quote, "Elliot has special needs. He`s a high functioning autistic child. She said that when she and the father split. Father agreed to pay $3,000 a month, later reduced to $2,000."

His father responded her claim was news to him. That it, quote, "disturbed me greatly."

Mark, is it possible that that was inaccurate what was reflected in the court documents? I mean, who`s lying here?

SCHACHER: Right.

MARK EIGLARSH, ATTORNEY: Well, I don`t know. It could be an innocent explanation. Perhaps he didn`t know. That`s possible.

Or perhaps he wants the world who`s pointing his finger at him right now, blaming him, that`s what`s going on, a lot going on on your show, to believe he wants to show everybody, you know what, this was a kid who didn`t have any problems. I didn`t know of any problems. I shouldn`t have known. I shouldn`t have done anything.

So, that might be going on as well.

PINSKY: But, Mark, that news to me thing was something apparently he said that was in the court -- in the divorce documents back in `99 when they divorced. He went, what are you talking about, the kid is high functioning autism? I didn`t know that.

And some of the things --

EIGLARSH: That`s possible.

PINSKY: Although they were deeply involved parents, I just wonder how much -- we heard yesterday, we talked to one of the kid`s friends who had knew the mom and had great affection for her. I wonder if there was denial.

Parents sometimes require kids to be more than they are and that could be damaging and dangerous -- Judy.

HO: Well, Dr. Drew, I was just thinking about looking at his manifesto, seeing all these places where he absolutely shows emotionality. We`re hearing people from his past saying that he was never this person all the time. That he had a lot of emotions before.

I`m just so sad this happened because there were so many places where people could have gotten to him. Could have reached out to him and made him understand sort of what he was actually going toward.

PINSKY: Yes. And, again, this is --

KEITT: Dr. Drew --

PINSKY: Jennifer, go ahead.

KEITT: No, when we are walking with people every single day, you can`t look into someone`s eyes and not see pain. Not see hurt. Not see frustration.

(CROSSTALK)

EIGLARSH: Guys --

SCHACHER: I agree with you. People also described him as being polite and he was very cunning. He knew when to turn it on for the police. I`m sure he knew when to turn it on for the parents. I feel horrible for the parents, everybody blaming them.

PINSKY: Mark has something more sinister here.

Go ahead, Mark.

EIGLARSH: Yes, listen, I think it`s an important point. I don`t want to derail you making the point that parents, people, if you see something sinister in someone`s eyes and you think you can do something, do something.

However, there`s some serious Monday morning quarterbacking going on here.

PINSKY: Yes.

EIGLARSH: I don`t know that anyone could have foreseen reasonably that what happened was going to happen based upon the behavior that they saw -- not to mention everyone`s got their own lives, not to mention`s not a kid anymore. I`m just saying I`m not on that bandwagon this definitely was preventable like you are, Drew.

KEITT: If he had people in this life that loved him, I`m telling you there`s a lot we can do when we`re in relationship with people. I refuse to believe there`s absolutely nothing we can do.

PINSKY: Judy?

HO: These are the people that escape our detection, Dr. Drew. It`s the acting out people that get referred. It`s the sad people who are withdrawn that we miss. These are the profiles of killers.

PINSKY: Look, let`s be clear. We`re not saying he`s a psychopath. He`s not been tearing animals apart since he was a kid. He did not lack empathy early on. In fact, he describes having connection with other people.

It was an evolution of social awkwardness, inability to navigate socially. A deep getting -- he became lost in all the things that society has wrong with it, he`s going to have the secret. He`s going to wish things into existence. He`s going to go win the lottery. He`s going to have materialistic goals. He`s going to watch pornography, going to play video games.

EIGLARSH: That sounds like a lot of people, drew. Sounds like a lot of people I know, a lot of my clients. They don`t become murderers.

SCHACHER: Right.

EIGLARSH: You know?

PINSKY: I understand.

EIGLARSH: Sounds like a lot of people.

PINSKY: But this is what took him down. I understand it. That`s what took this kid with these proclivities, these liabilities into a place that was bad, obviously. It contributed to all this. People -- when the kid drives to Arizona.

SCHACHER: Four times.

PINSKY: To win the lottery, somebody should have said that`s delusional, grandiose, there`s something going on here, and that`s what I`m saying. And if he doesn`t want to do the treatment, there`s a way to leverage the treatment and you have to bring that axe down. If there`s any -- that strongly enough, if you`re involved with a family member that needs it, you got to make sure you do everything you possibly can to make sure they get treatment.

Next up, we have a new story. It`s about, somebody who changes their Facebook status and then is killed. It`s very different than this story we`ve been talking about so far. We`ll be on it after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. What`s your first name, sir?

JARED REMY: Jared.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jared. OK.

JENNIFER MARTEL: Can I have my phone back?

REMY: Hold on. I`m on the phone with the police. Yeah. I`ll give you your phone back. Hold on.

MARTEL: Tell them what you did.

REMY: Hold on.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. Did anything physical occur, sir?

REMY: Did what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did anything physical happen?

REMY: No. No. No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Has there been any pushing or shoving?

REMY: No. No pushing or shoving.

MARTEL: Yeah, there was pushing and shoving. He pulled my hair and my head.

REMY: No, no pushing and shoving.

MARTEL: Hello?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.

MARTEL: No. This is Jen. I`m the one who had to call the cops. He took the phone away from me. He took me and slammed my face against the mirror. He is a very violent person, a lot of medication, who might need some serious help because he is very angry and has a very bad temper.

(END AUDIO TAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Mark, Leeann, Andrea. Two days after that 911 call, a 24 hour restraining order had expired. Jared Remy went to the apartment he shared with Jennifer Martel. Minutes after she changed her Facebook status to complicated, Jared stabbed Jennifer to death in front of their 4- year-old child. Sam, what else do you know about this guy?

SCHACHER: Gosh. Well, it`s a high profile case, because Jared is Jerry Remy`s son, who was the celebrated loved infielder of the Boston Red Sox turned broadcaster. Now, according to the police report, he has a criminal history that dates back to March of 2000 when he was caught in possession of a hypodermic needle. Also, he has a history of abuse against women. Since the age of 17, he has abused five, five of his girlfriends. And guess what, each time he repeatedly got away with it, just a little bit more than probation, sounds appropriate.

PINSKY: So, this is a very different case than what we`ve been discussing, right, Andrea? This is not about the Facebook status being changed. This is about medication and needles, probably steroids he was uses back then, and he`s aggressive and this is very, very different. Wouldn`t you agree?

ANDREA LETAMENDI, PH.D.: Absolutely. This is one of the cases where law enforcement, unfortunately, is completely misaligned with what we know about community research and mental health. Because this guy meets all the criteria of him having predictors of intimate partner violence and murdering this poor woman is incredibly tragic.

PINSKY: Leeann.

LEEANN TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, we`re talking this goes way back. When you say violence against his girlfriends, let`s talk about this. He beat up a girl that had his young baby in her arms. He beat her up. He waited for her in the dark with a baseball bat. This is a continued cycle of violence over and over again. And 20 times he was taken to court as a defendant and every single time he got away with it.

SCHACHER: You`re right.

TWEEDEN: And his dad hired all the high-profile, high-money attorneys and every single time he got away with it. One time his dad said, you know, is there a way for us to maybe make him, you know, feel like if he does this again then there might be some consequences? It never happened. And it happened that he murdered a girl. The father of -- you know, the mother of his child, again, and what can you do? This kid -- a guy -- was an entitled little prick who had his dad in his back pocket. He never works. He didn`t have anything at all. All he did was take drugs and steroids and was able to do whatever he wanted and always got away with it.

PINSKY: You know, but, Mark, all he did was take drugs and steroids. She`s right. This is a story of addiction. This is a story of race, road rage. This is a story of domestic violence. It`s interesting that these kinds of cases which I see all the time don`t foster discussions about misogyny. This is much more about the misogynistic attitude some guys maintain. But is it appropriate for him to use his drug and steroid use as any sort of defense?

EIGLARSH: Well, it would have been, but he chose not to. To me, the most bizarre part of this story is this guy who had at a minimum has extraordinary defects in character, at a maximum, violence toward women, drug use. All of a sudden said, I`m going to say I`m guilty and I`ll get life without parole, with nothing. I mean, it`s not like they took the death penalty off the table. So, what happened was maybe after the detox, after he`s no longer on all this stuff, the steroids maybe are no longer affecting him, he had some clarity and realized what a monster he had become and what his behavior was. That`s the only explanation for why he said, I`m guilty, I`ll take life.

SCHACHER: I don`t know because he did try to take accountability when he gave his little speech in court yesterday. But then he quickly.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: What did he say?

SCHACHER: Then he -- I want to take account accountability. But then he quickly said, oh, but my girlfriend at the time also had a knife in her hand and she used our daughter against me. I always told her. Don`t use our daughter against me. So, then he just took back his apology.

TWEEDEN: Come on, that`s a grown ass man, that`s huge, that`s always like, oh, it`s her, she was threatening me. Give me a break. She didn`t have a knife.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Beats a woman or does anything to a woman and then tries to blame it on a woman. He`s just a little wimp.

PINSKY: That`s a drug addict attitude. Drug addict says, I want to make an apology for what you did, so I had to do what I did. So, it`s really ridiculous.

EIGLARSH: That`s what makes it more -- that`s what makes it more bizarre because he`s an addict and because he has some facts that he could have advanced to the jurors and said, oh, she had a knife, maybe they`d come back on second degree or manslaughter, something left.

TWEEDEN: No, she`s dead, Mark. Come on. I don`t care if he was on steroids or not. She`s dead.

PINSKY: I got to get out. I got to get out. Let`s just take a bid (ph) and talk about the difference for a second between this kid in Santa Barbara who had some sort of neurodevelopmental disorder, severe, severe narcissism. Really a brain problem, not probably psychopathy but it became what effectively operated like a psychopath. This guy, drug addict, manic, out of his mind, taking drugs, finally and in the cycle of domestic violence, very different sort of a case and very common, unfortunately. This is the one that also can be treated but you`ve got to bring the axe down on these people in order for them to break through all that denial and, again, there was another story of an enabling parent.

Next, how in the age of social media could a girl be raped at school in the hallway and no one say or see anything? Get into that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Scarborough arrested Monday and charged with the rape of a 15-year-old inside Parkside High School while school was in session. Police say Scarborough led the victim by force to a hallway where the sexual assault occurred. This was posted on Jocori Scarborough`s Facebook page, a status update saying he was out of jail and seemingly proclaiming his innocence. It finished with the quote, I`m going to beat the case.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam. And that kid is barely out of jail and he is updating his status on Facebook. Let`s bring back our panel, Vanessa, Judy, and Erica. Judy, do we make anything of these social media posts? I mean, he`s hubris, right?

JUDY HO, PH.D.: Definitely. I mean, this guy is obviously a narcissistic because he thinks he can get away with anything including raping a girl in the middle of the hallway during school hours. Where is this kid`s lawyer? Where is his legal representation?

PINSKY: Well, we reached out to the suspect`s attorney and he declined to comment on the case. Erica, we have had live in the day of surveillance cameras on campus rolling but no one assigned to watch the video feed during the day and no one seems to see anything. On Facebook our fans say, forget the video, what about the teachers?

ERICA AMERICA: Exactly, and you know, no security system video surveillance system is perfect, so my question is, how are these two children out of the classrooms at the same time unaccounted for? Where are the hall monitors? There was definitely something going on here. Was the girl screaming? Was there a part of the hallway that was so isolated that people couldn`t hear? I mean, it`s really disturbing. You know, some of the things he posted on his Facebook including a very violent type video, I mean, that was disturbing as well. I don`t know if you guys saw that.

VANESSA BARNETT: But, you know what, they barely have enough money to pay the teachers to teach in class, so no, they don`t have extra funds for someone who sit and watch a camera and I`ve been in high school. We`ve all been there. And I know there are always secret little hallways where kids make out and unfortunately.

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Or smoke pot.

BARNETT: This incident it was rape and it`s disgusting and horrible. But we can`t act like these teachers can be everywhere all of the time. Cameras can`t be everywhere all of the time.

SCHACHER: Vanessa, I agree with you. Somebody is so brazen as this and I -- that`s going to rape a girl during school hours, he definitely has a criminal behavior. And I would think that no matter how many cameras there are he`s gonna find a nooks and crannies, but there is a hall monitor.

PINSKY: I understand them.

SCHACHER: He`s gonna wait `til she`s not in the hall.

PINSKY: I`m looking for the positive in social media and surveillance. There`s opportunity for us to use these as tools and I`m just saying -- well, maybe not, but maybe there`s a way we could have and learn from it. I don`t see the solution right now but let`s start try to stay on top of it.

We`ve got another story coming up which surveillance does work out. A teacher loses control, lets expletives go in the classroom, and guess what? A smartphone comes to the rescue here and helps out. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I`m back with Sam. A seventh grader tells her parents the teacher screamed the F word in class. Complaints made to the school go nowhere. So, the child`s aunt tells her, if it happens again, get proof, and, quote, that`s what your cell phone is for. And that`s exactly what this kid did. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have a (BLEEP) job, half of your mammas don`t. (BLEEP). You want to play? Stay home to your mamma. I don`t care. I said close the (BLEEP) door.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: That`s incredible.

SCHACHER: Wow.

PINSKY: Vanessa, Judy, Erica are back with us. Judy, I don`t know where to go here, whether the surveillance and social media worked out or how bad this teacher was behaving?

HO: Well, I like to focus on the positive as you said in the last block, Dr. Drew. So, let`s talk about how social media as surveillance worked in this case. And I love that this is happening because now, this is going to prompt law enforcement and other agencies to really take this type of evidence seriously into their investigation.

PINSKY: Yes. Right. Erica, if they had really looked into what the kid in Santa Barbara had posted and used it as evidence rather than what they saw in the interview, things would have turned out completely differently.

AMERICA: Right. No, absolutely. I mean, you know, the teacher just being empathetic. You know, might have been stressed out, maybe the kids are being rambunctious.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Erica, Erica, are you kidding? I want to talk to a teacher. Vanessa, you`re a substitute teacher. Can you imagine?

AMERICA: Wait. You`re not hearing what I just said. You`re being ridiculous.

BARNETT: You can be frustrated. You can be upset. You can be a lot of things.

AMERICA: I didn`t finish my statement.

BARNETT: But you do not curse out the kids. You walk away, you get the principal.

AMERICA: That`s what I was saying.

BARNETT: Yeah, but to be empathetic with every single one of us in our everyday lives come up against something where we want to pull our hair out or curse somebody out and we don`t? Be empathetic for us that don`t and we hold our tongues and do what we`re supposed to. She gets no sympathy. She gets no empathy. She`s ridiculous.

PINSKY: Erica, go ahead, finish your thought.

AMERICA: All I was saying was that -- but what she needs to do is speak to her supervisor, go to a therapist. There is no place for cursing at children because you literally are the example for children. So, in this case.

PINSKY: I`m not sure that`s -- this is not the time for therapy in this one. I think this is time for action. For this.

(CROSSTALK)

AMERICA: I`m saying this was a good thing. I`m saying it was absolutely -- this video surveillance was amazing. I had a teacher. I`m not going to name names who used to use mother all the time. We had.

PINSKY: Don`t forget, Miss Tibbetts grabbed me when I was 6 years old and nearly shook my brains out. Remember that one?

BARNETT: Do you Miss Tibbetts?

PINSKY: That`s right. If I only had a smartphone to be able to -- or someone at the other 6-year-olds -- 6-year-olds shouldn`t have a smartphone, I`m just saying.

HO: I`m still here for you, Dr. Drew, if you want to talk about that trauma.

PINSKY: Thank you.

SCHACHER: That`s a good idea, Judy. That`s a good idea.

PINSKY: Yeah. Absolutely, you see it`s still with me. Next up, we`re going to get Dean and Tori. And Dean has a Tori tattoo down under and we don`t have a video of this one for the record. Back after this

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Tori Spelling and her husband, Dean, and let reality cameras follow their attempts to repair their marriage. And after months of therapy, Dean is about to go to work in Canada where he had cheated on Tori before. Tori is trying to make sure he doesn`t cheat again. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sign something.

TORI SPELLING: Sign what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A legal document. I`m serious. That says if I ever cheat on her, you again, if I ever drink again, I`m out of this relationship. I get nothing.

SPELLING: Should I have him do a tattoo on his body?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would be amazing.

SPELLING: I mean, clearly that didn`t stop him. You know the tattoo he has, right? Down there. It says Tori`s.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On his penis?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.

SPELLING: It`s above it. It`s above the pubis. It says Tori`s and then months later he cheated on me.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Vanessa, Mark, Erica are back. Sam, question to you. Have you ever had a tattoo you regretted?

SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh. I know where you`re getting at with this. I have many tattoos and there is one that I have that I don`t regret. It has a different meaning now, but I did get it.

PINSKY: You don`t regret it?

SCHACHER: It`s for my ex-boyfriend. No. But it wasn`t his name.

PINSKY: I asked you to show it to Jason Ellis and he recoiled, and then a little to your knowledge, he took a picture of it.

SCHACHER: He recoiled?

PINSKY: He didn`t like it. I believe I have a picture of it.

SCHACHER: Rude.

PINSKY: He didn`t dig it. Jason Ellis didn`t dig the tattoo. What does Mark got there?

SCHACHER: Oh my embarrassing.

PINSKY: Where is it?

SCHACHER: A, I cannot believe that you guys have that photo, B that was on stage because I was doing a one woman show talking about some of these stories. But, yeah, that tattoo, in old English for everybody out there now that the whole world reads, eternity.

EIGLARSH: Oh, my.

SCHACHER: Excuse me, it was supposed to symbolize the length of our love which clearly -- you know what, everyone is laughing right now in this control room, in this studio.

PINSKY: I`ve got guests that are losing it, too.

AMERICA: Oh my gosh.

PINSKY: Mark, what are you holding up there, mark?

EIGLARSH: Well, apparently, apparently, Dr. Drew, on a stick who never lies just said that`s a very hot photo of Samantha.

SCHACHER: Oh, thank you.

EIGLARSH: Also apparently, Dr. Drew, on a stick also says that you, Dr. Drew, apparently have a tattoo in a most personal region.

SCHACHER: What?

EIGLARSH: Are you prepared to tell America where it is and what it is?

SCHACHER: No way.

BARNETT: Please do tell.

PINSKY: No, I don`t have a tattoo.

SCHACHER: Come on, Dr. Drew. I just got embarrassed on T.V.

EIGLARSH: You`re not ready yet?

PINSKY: Not ready.

EIGLARSH: Now is not the time?

PINSKY: Too soon.

BARNETT: I have a tramp stamp.

AMERICA: Oh, girl let`s see it.

PINSKY: What happened to Vanessa?

BARNETT: I have one of those travel -- I got it when I was 18. When my mom found out, she flipped because she did not know I accidentally bent over. She says, what is that? And years later I got it changed to mean something, you know, more special to me.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Erica, most of our Facebook fans say tattooing your partner`s name anywhere on your body is a kiss of death for that relationship.

AMERICA: Yeah. I mean.

PINSKY: And by the way, I`m offended for Sam`s husband, by the way.

SCHACHER: Why? It`s not his name.

PINSKY: Go ahead, Erica.

AMERICA: Honestly, I hope this is not true for Tori and Dean, because honestly, if she thinks that commitment is a penis tattoo, that`s going to stop who you know other women from hooking up, that`s really sad. It`s a lot more than a penis tattoo.

SCHACHER: And for the record, my husband and I have matching tattoos, too. OK. And it`s nobody`s name, Dr. Drew, and the eternity tattoo has a new meaning, thank you very much, just like Vanessa`s. Thank you.

PINSKY: Am I right (inaudible) of this.

EIGLARSH: I love these symbols, Drew. I love these symbols that people get. You ask them what it means, and they say, what it means. Why? Because Lou at the tattoo shop says that`s what the symbol means? Come on.

AMERICA: We could go on and on about this.

PINSKY: It`s been an interesting show tonight. We`ve gone from something very serious to something very light. Thank you for joining me through this journey tonight. DVR us please and watch us any time. Coming up, immediately following this show is Forensic Files. In fact, it begins right now.

END