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Dr. Drew
Teen Kills Parents Over iPod?
Aired May 29, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, a teen admits to murdering his parents because of an iPod. His cousin speaks to the behavior bureau. What else might have motivated the attack?
Plus, Facebook leads to the rescue of a newborn. Stolen from his parents.
REPORTER: Are you heroes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we are.
PINSKY: Let`s get started.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening.
Welcome, Samantha Schacher. Thank you for joining us this evening.
A 60-year-old pleads guilty for stabbing and bludgeoning to death his parents. We cannot figure out why. The dad apparently, Sam, took away his iPod. Is that sufficient to generate that kind of rage?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Come on. You know what? We do have his cousin here on the show. So, stick around. Perhaps we can learn a little bit more about this murder.
PINSKY: I am hoping the behavior bureau is going to try to figure this out. We`re going to learn something about it in this following tape.
I have a warning. This is a very graphic story. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Vincent Parker, a high school student accused of stabbing and killing his parents, he pled guilty to two counts of second- degree murder.
GRANDFATHER: I can remember what happened, myself. I`m sure he can`t remember what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Parker left school early on December 19th. He then went home and repeatedly stabbed his mother, beating her with a crowbar and a baseball bat. When his father arrived home, he then stabbed him multiple times. He says his father upset him by taking away his iPod. Parker tells police he, quote, "just got mad and went off."
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I just remember getting mad, it`s all for my dad. All this stuff like my dad taking away my iPod and stuff."
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us: Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "Tomboys" podcast on Blog Talk Radio. Vanessa Barnett, social commentator, host of hiphollywood.com. And Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media.
Leeann, no warning signs they claim. All over an iPod. Does that make sense to you?
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Of course not. I mean, you know, the parents were actually doing what we always talk about on the show. They were parenting, Dr. Drew. And it just -- I mean, if that`s what it really was, the dad was taking it away, he probably did something that he didn`t like.
But the kid did say they did update the story and said the psychologist had talked to him in prison or in jail said that he had some anger management issues.
PINSKY: No kidding?
SCHACHER: That is putting it lightly.
TWEEDEN: Nobody talked about that in their stories. Everybody said, oh, he was such a nice kid, he was an honor student. Nobody talked about anger management issues. So, it`s very interesting.
SCHACHER: Anger issues is throwing a glass against the wall amidst an argument. This is an entirely different ballpark. This kid to me seems like a complete psychopath.
He didn`t only murder his parents. He did an overkill by stabbing his mother in the face, then he beat her.
And, you know, psychopaths can assimilate into society like anybody else. There may not be any red flags.
PINSKY: OK.
SCHACHER: This kid seems above and beyond anger management issues.
PINSKY: You`re right. Anger management is throwing a glass at the wall. We`ve now learned something about Sam and how she fights, that`s freaking me out a little bit by the way, ladies.
This murder was, in fact, terribly brutal. I want to list for you some of the weapons. Pepper spray, which he met his mother with at the door. Eight knives he was armed with, a baseball bat, whacked both his parents with a crowbar.
Vanessa, gruesome, gruesome murder.
So, Sam`s checking off the psychopath list. What do you say?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: This may be the scariest story I`ve ever heard. This mother -- to know you have given birth to the person that kills you is the most terrifying thought I could ever have, and this - - he says he just snapped, but this seems methodically planned out. You don`t have pepper spray on hand.
PINSKY: That`s right.
BARNETT: Eight knives, you don`t walk around with knives. A crowbar. Where do you get a crowbar at 16? Like you go to a hardware store? Like how is he collecting the items and maliciously and viciously killing the people that brought him into the world is the scariest thing I`ve ever heard.
TWEEDEN: And not only that, Dr. Drew, he even said that when he killed his mom, he stabbed her in the eye and he kept beating her in the face, but then he said, oh, you know what, I blacked out when I did that.
OK, maybe he did, but then he waited for his father to come home with a crowbar. Don`t you think he probably came out of the blackout mode while waiting for his dad? I don`t buy it.
PINSKY: Leeann, I completely agree. To me that was one of the more damning aspects of the story.
But, Michelle, let me be a little polemically here and proposed something. My buddy Adam Carolla always say, he said this about the Menendez brothers, he goes -- if you raised and gave birth to somebody who believes it`s a good idea to blow your head off or stab you, it`s on you a little bit.
What do you say?
MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: Yes, I absolutely agree. I kind of think this is just sort of this entitlement mentality that young people have. That they feel like they deserve things and that they don`t want to be disciplined for things.
And probably, he was, and he probably was given lots of things and then, one day, his parents decided to discipline him. Unfortunately, he has anger management issues and flipped out. I think that`s exactly what this is.
And if he was able to do this to his own parents, imagine if someone who`s not his parents, not his loved ones, just a stranger decided to take something away from him or not give him something. He would go insane -- more insane than he did there. He needs to be locked up.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: So much more than just entitlement.
SCHACHER: It seems way -- exactly. It seems way more than entitlement and anger management issues. So, what do you think?
PINSKY: Well, I want to bring in the behavior bureau here in.
Here`s basically my thoughts on this. This -- I`m going to be a little bit Leeann-esque here a little bit and not blame it on mental health, mental illness per se. But there is something going on that caused him to go into an altered state where he could be that aggressive and that violent.
Now, if he were the kind of child -- and, Sam, you made the case he`s a psychopath which he might be. He might not understand he`s hurting other people. But, usually, there`s evidence of that. There usually is.
They hurt animals. They hurt other people. They`re aggressive. They lack empathy.
I would tell you, the killer`s cousin is up with us next. And he`s going to tell -- I read something he said. It`s a he or she?
She said he felt as though this whole thing was just stupid. He went too far. It was stupid. That sounds psychopathic to me.
I`m concerned he may have been the object of physical abuse or something that does cause people to black out, red out, or white out when they`re a kid, and that may have made him lose control. It does not justify any of this. But it`s by way of explanation.
I`ll bring in the behavior bureau to talk about it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: "I just got mad and went off. I just remember getting mad. It`s all for my dad. All this stuff like my dad taking away my iPod and stuff."
(END VIDEO CLIP)]
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We`re talking about that teen who murdered his parents because they did stuff, to use his word, like taking away the iPod, or was it an iPad? To be --
SCHACHER: That makes quite the difference.
PINSKY: Tells me now it`s iPod. Somebody took my iPad, I might get violent.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau. Ginger Gonzaga, actress. Danine Manette, criminal investigator, author of "Ultimate Betrayal". Wendy Walsh, psychologist and author of "The 30-Day Love Detox".
And joining us by phone, Morgan Watkins. She is the young man`s cousin.
Morgan, thank you for joining us. Were there any warning signs at all from Vincent? Did he have any sort of a temper? The psychologist said he had anger issues. What are they talking about?
MORGAN WATKINS, VINCENT PARKER`S COUSIN (via telephone): Vincent is a very nice guy. You know, I went to church with him every Sunday. We hung out outside of school. He didn`t show any signs of any psychological problems.
PINSKY: Did he treat animals kindly? Was he kind to other people? Did you see him do anything that was kind of funny?
WATKINS: Yes, he owned a dog. He loved that dog to death. I also have a 3-year-old sister and let him watch her when I was busy doing something else. She loved him to death.
I don`t understand where his anger came from. He`s definitely a people person.
SCHACHER: OK. Morgan, have you talked to Vincent? Has he talked to you about what he believes happened that day? Did he describe to you what made him go into this rage besides being the iPod? Did he seem remorseful?
WATKINS: Yes, he`s written letters explaining what has happened. He pretty much said he just snapped. He was very angry. And he doesn`t remember it.
PINSKY: And he describes it, Morgan, as a stupid event, not something he`s horrified by?
WATKINS: Yes, he is very remorseful. He is very sad that something like this would happen. He`s trying to figure out, himself, why he`s done it. He`s not sure.
He cries all the time, and I`m not sure what was going on in his brain at the time, but he`s never acted like this ever.
PINSKY: I understand he gave you a letter to put on his mother`s grave. Can you give us a little bit of what that said?
WATKINS: Yes. He wrote, "Dear mom, I want to start out by saying sorry from the bottom of my heart. I know sorry may not be enough to justify what I did, but I`m sorry for what I did to both you and dad. I would give my life for you two to be alive again.
You and dad were and still are the best mom and dad in the world. Mom, I want to thank you for bringing me into this world. I`ll see you soon. Happy Mother`s Day to the best mother in the world. I miss you and dad so much."
PINSKY: Very chilling.
Morgan, thank you for giving us your insight into Vincent and his behavior.
Danine, you were having a reaction. Your thoughts. I`m going to go around the horn.
Danine first.
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, you know, it`s really easy to put this on a youth thing, these kids feeling entitled and all that. The fact of the matter is adults get mad and kill, too. I mean, you take someone`s parking space, they kill you. Jodi Arias killed Travis for taking his love away from her. You know, a mother kicked her kid to death.
So, it`s not just a kid thing. I think it`s a person gets mad and commit a murder thing. I don`t think -- I think when we put psychological labels on this type of behavior, it does a disservice. Not only to the person, but to all the other people out there who suffer with these mental health issues and don`t kill.
So, I think maybe if we put more money into mental health care in prison, then people can get their care while they`re serving their time.
PINSKY: Ginger?
GINGER GONZAGA, ACTRESS: I just don`t think it`s a get mad and snap sort of issue because he killed one person. If you -- you know, if you kill someone and it`s a crime of passion, that means one thing. This was very premeditated. He killed then killed again, which is very scary.
I think the whole, like, there`s no warning sign aspect, I think that`s probably just really bad journalism. I think there must have been something. And if the parents didn`t see this in their child that they had some sort of capacity for such a violent tendency, then maybe there was an extent of neglect.
Like if you haven`t seen anything in your son that could clue that he might have the ability to do something so grotesque and awful, then maybe you`re not around your child enough. I place no blame on the parents. I`m just saying there might have been a disconnect there.
PINSKY: Wendy, let me ask you, I think there are really sort of two big possibilities. You tell me if you agree with me or not.
One is that this is psychopathy. It was burgeoning for a long time, people just missed it. That`s a possibility. The way he did it in a premeditated way, he thinks of it as something rather than horrifying.
Number two, he may have had a blackout or red out, things people to when they`ve an abused.
SCHACHER: OK.
PINSKY: If somebody who`s been physically abused, they sometimes will have these outbursts of anger that are overwhelming and they don`t know what they`ve done.
Remember the movie or play "Chicago", they talk about not knowing what they`re doing until they wash the blood from their hands. That does happen.
What do you think?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I`m leaning toward the second. I would tell you this, Dr. Drew, this is not about an iPod.
PINSKY: Of course not. We agree with that.
WALSH: There were reports this was a very conflicted young man. He was only coming to terms with his own sexuality and recently told his parents.
And he`s an only child. He`s a son. He may have come -- I don`t know what the reports are of how accepting these parents were of this.
SCHACHER: They were quite accepting from what I read.
PINSKY: Still, it`s a big moment.
WALSH: Remember, there`s a public/private side to everybody`s personality and every family system. And when he -- the line where you said it was stuff about my dad, it was my dad`s stuff, that`s, Dr. Drew, where I start to think about early childhood abuse.
PINSKY: That`s what I think, too. Thank you, guys. We`ve got to keep moving.
Next up, we`ve got another story. It`s a baby who was returned, kidnapped and returned safe and sound to her mom thanks to Facebook.
And, of course, we here @DrDrewHLN are nearing a milestone on our Facebook. Please help us get there. The Facebook is DrDrew -- DrDrewHLN.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A woman pretending to be a nurse walked into a hospital room and took a newborn baby.
BABY`S UNCLE: She had the attitude, the uniform, all of it. And we never presumed she was a kidnapper.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They put surveillance pictures of this alleged kidnapper with this baby leaving the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They get it on social media. It goes viral.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The news of the nursery snatching spread quickly. A group of friends now hailed as heroes spotted a social media posting. They decided to join the search.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Then a photo is released of the woman and one of the friends that`s looking for the car recognizes the woman as her former neighbor.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Good Samaritans led police to the suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you heroes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, we are.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam.
We got our behavior bureau: Ginger, Danine, and Wendy.
A baby kidnapping is spoiled by Facebook.
Sam, tell us --
SCHACHER: Yes, it`s a crazy story, but a great example of citizens of social media.
PINSKY: That`s what I`m talking about.
SCHACHER: Yes, exactly. So, what had happened, just like you saw in the package, a woman gives birth to her baby, baby Victoria, 16 hours old. A woman disguised in nursing scrubs comes in, says I`m going to weigh your baby, takes the baby.
PINSKY: So scary.
SCHACHER: I know. The hospital immediately puts out a statement describing the suspect and her car. These four friends randomly chilling in their apartment go, oh, this is our area, let`s go out and look for the suspect`s vehicle. And then they see a picture of her that was put out by the police. It`s all over Facebook.
And that`s one of the friends realizes that`s my old neighbor. Leads police to the kidnapper`s house and now, the baby is reunited with the mom.
PINSKY: That`s awesome. We actually have the cellphone video that the Good Samaritans recorded a video as police took the baby from the suspect`s apartment. There it is right there.
Danine, what do you think of this story?
MANETTE: This is a great story. And then a mother who just gives birth runs down the hall to try and find the baby. I mean, she`s just given birth like two hours ago.
PINSKY: Can you imagine?
MANETTE: Wonderful. You know, I love the fact this is a great example of a good use of social media.
But I`m not anyone who complains about the things people put on social media because it really does help me do my job every day.
I mean, I dig through everybody`s profiles. I contact your friends. I find out things about you. I subpoena your videos for fights you took that you think are pretty cool.
I love this stuff. Keep putting on stuff on social media. I get my job done.
PINSKY: Danine gave me the willies there. I think she`s talking to all of us including you, Ginger. What do you say?
GONZAGA: I say this is the best commercial Facebook has ever had. Ever.
And hats off, however, to this kidnapper for having a baby on the board sign on her car. I know she`s mentally ill, but she`s very prepared.
I think it`s great. I think it reminds me everyone in Canada is like the nicest person ever. They`re great citizens. There are four rescue rangers that are helping everyone get this poor woman`s baby back.
But I do think that the woman unfortunately was very unwell and it sounded like she had lost a lot in her life and for some reason was trying to replace it with a child.
PINSKY: Well, you did say how lovely Canadians are. See how we set that up perfectly, Wendy? We have a Canadian on the panel.
WALSH: And I thank you very much.
PINSKY: Let me just say, Wendy, what Ginger brings up about her being prepared and having sort of logical aspects of what she would do to keep the baby safe, mental illness does not mean not smart. It`s cognition and mental illness are very different things.
WALSH: Absolutely. And in fact, the highest functioning people with mental illness often are the most dangerous. You know, Canadians are very nice, but when are they going to get smart and put low jacks on the babies` ankles like in America the second they`re born?
PINSKY: Low jacks?
WALSH: They put little beepers that go off. You can`t steal a baby from an American hospital these days.
PINSKY: By the way, this woman did take a large amount of medication before she was arrested and ended up on a ventilator. She was very, very - -
WALSH: Wait, let me ask you about that. Could this be attempted murder? If she had died in that apartment and nobody found her and there was a 2-hour-old baby --
MANETTE: I think she took the medicine when she saw herself come up on the Amber Alert.
PINSKY: They were, like, coming down, they were on top of her at that point. It was an impulsive thing. All is well that ends well. A good story.
SCHACHER: Finally.
PINSKY: A story that`s almost intolerable to one that`s kind of nice.
SCHACHER: We`re no longer destroying Canadians like Rob Ford and Justin Bieber.
PINSKY: Oh, we`ll get to that. Don`t worry, Sam. We`ve got that coming later.
But next, we`re going to change gears to (AUDIO GAP) himself named in the diary manifesto, whatever you want to call it of the Santa Barbara killer. He is here with me after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Samantha.
Tonight, we are hearing from parents of the Isla Vista killer Elliot Rodgers. When they saw his so-called retribution video on YouTube, they immediately got in their cars and raced to Santa Barbara. My understanding is the social worker contacted the police, all too late.
I`ll play for you what their spokesman told NBC`s "Today" show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s being reported, there`s a shooting, mass killing. A black BMW is involved. And they`re living their nightmare. They`re hearing their son is murdering people.
MATT LAUER, NBC: Did they ever think, though, through those years that they were getting him help that these -- that his thoughts could turn violent?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Violent maybe to himself, but to others, absolutely not.
LAUER: Did his parents recognize those things when they read the manifesto?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First, they haven`t read the manifesto.
LAUER: Why not?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is just awful. It`s an awful piece of writing, and it is -- they`re going through absolutely enough at the moment. They are mourning the victims more than they are mourning their son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Michelle, Vanessa, Wendy are back with us.
There`s a battle on Twitter right now, on our twitter feeds, and I`m certain you`re seeing out there as well between those who think Elliot`s parents are partially responsible for what happened and those who think they, too, are victims.
Michelle, if we blame the parents, aren`t we creating more victims?
FIELDS: No, look, this is absolutely partially the parents` fault. If you have a kid that has been in therapy since 8 years old and in high school was going to therapy every single day, you don`t ship the kid two hours away from you. You keep the crazy kid next to you. I also think this culture of therapy is to blame, too.
PINSKY: How dare you.
FIELDS: We are raising a whole generation of kids -- we are raising a whole generation of kids that think it`s completely normal to sit there for hours and hours on end talking about themselves and their problems.
We`re creating narcissists that can`t relate to the real world because they`re used to having someone sit there and tell them you`re great, you`re wonderful, and they need to boost their self-esteem. If you read this manifesto, that`s his problem, that when he`s out in the real world, no one is constantly validating him and raising his self-esteem.
PINSKY: Now, Michelle, the reality is -- Wendy, I`m going to hook Michelle up with you a little bit.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: -- therapy, how that really works. You`d be breaking down the narcissism in a therapeutic process.
Now, whether they missed that or not or mismanaged it, that`s the question here.
FIELDS: He`s been going to therapy for eight years. Like, no one is talking about this. This is a problem. If he`s going since he was 8 years old --
WALSH: What can they do? Really?
BARNETT: If you put him in therapy, you`re mad. If you put him in therapy, you`re mad. Everybody has to stop blaming the parents for everything. There are no perfect parents. But at the end of the day, this young man decided to go out and kill people that did nothing to him. His parents tried to get him help. His parents when his mother read the first four lines of the manifesto, she called his father. She got in the car and she tried to do something.
FIELDS: No, no, no, when they saw those videos on YouTube.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: They`re not superheroes.
FIELDS: They needed to call the cops and have him put in a mental institute.
BARNETT: He had done several things. They`ve tried.
(CROSSTALK)
DR. DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: One at a time. One at a time. One at a time. One at a time.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D.: I want to remind everybody that this person, this killer was over the age of 18.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: Thank you, Wendy.
WALSH: The parents legally have no jurisdiction at this point.
FIELDS: But they knew he had problems since he was 8 years old.
WALSH: Yes. And they had gone to all the sources. The police had been there. He fooled the police as much as he fooled his parents, as much as he fooled his social worker.
FIELDS: Can I get in here?
PINSKY: Go.
FIELDS: He had videos saying that he wanted to kill people.
PINSKY: Michelle, one sec.
SCHACHER: I agree with you.
FIELDS: I have wanted to institutionalized him.
PINSKY: Yes. I agree.
SCHACHER: I agree you, but here`s the thing, because we talked about this last night that these parents should have provided leverage with the car, with the apartment. But again, he`s 22 years old. Most 22-year-olds support themselves. So, what are parents out there supposed to do who have children that are suffering from an untreated.
(CROSSTALK)
FIELDS: He was paying -- their parents were paying for the apartment.
SCHACHER: I know.
FIELDS: They were paying for the car.
SCHACHER: I wasn`t finished.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Whoa, everybody, hold it, hold it, hold it.
SCHACHER: We need a therapist here. OK. I was gonna finish my point.
PINSKY: Therapy is a waste of time according to Michelle, but hold on.
SCHACHER: I was going to finish my point.
PINSKY: Go ahead.
SCHACHER: Yes. We talked about the leverage last night, but they could have taken away the car. They could have taken away the apartment, but what about the parents out there who have 22-year-olds that are suffering from an untreated mental illness but supporting themselves? What are they supposed to do? They`re 22, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Get a conservatorship just the way It has.
SCHACHER: It`s difficult. It is expensive.
PINSKY: I know. There`s a -- you can get conservators assigned through the courts. You can do it, Amanda Bynes` parents did it, Britney Spears` parents did it, and that`s why those women are well today, because the parents listened to the professionals that were guiding them. It`s a very unpleasant process. I have 100 or 200 times I recommended parents do it, I can think of one time where they`ve fallen through. It`s unlikely if parents will do it, and people -- kids, usually to identified patient, that ends up dead, they usually don`t end up killing people.
SCHACHER: I feel bad for the parents.
PINSKY: On the phone, I have Robert Morgan. He is a class, or was a classmate of Elliot Rodgers who actually was mentioned in the manifesto. Now, Robert, Elliot wrote -- I`m going to read you what he wrote about you and your friends. Here it comes, they all seem so confident and aggressive, I felt so intimidated by them, I hated them for it. I hated them so much, but I had to increase my standing with them. I wanted to be friends with him. Now, you -- apparently, my understanding is you knew he was kind of jealous but you tried to help him. Is that right?
ROBERT MORGAN, MENTIONED IN MANIFESTO: Yeah, that`s correct. I tried to involve him in as much activities as I could.
PINSKY: Did you have any idea there was this much anger brewing?
MORGAN: No, not at all. You could never see it in the kid. You would think he -- you would never know he was that angry inside.
PINSKY: Did he ever talk about girls and dating and his jealousies?
MORGAN: No, nothing at all. Every conversation with him was very, very short. Nothing was long in-depth. It was just quick. I mean, like I said, nothing personal, nothing about him being upset, nothing at all.
PINSKY: And what did you think when you heard what had happened in Santa Barbara, and that he was involved?
MORGAN: I was shocked. I mean, I couldn`t believe it, but a part of me felt like, I mean, it was very real. You know?
PINSKY: Yeah.
SCHACHER: Robert, what.
MORGAN: I hate to say I would expect this out of him, but it wasn`t second judgment.
SCHACHER: Robert, what was your understanding of the parents? Did you know them? Did you think that they were great parents? Did it seem like that they had a relationship at all?
PINSKY: And a grip on his illness?
SCHACHER: Yeah.
MORGAN: I only saw maybe the mother pick him up a few times here and there. I mean, we were in middle school. All you see is basically his mother drop him off and pick him up. So, no, I did not see anything from the parents.
PINSKY: Wendy.
WALSH: I do want to say, it`s really bothering me all this blame the parent stuff because sometimes my kids do stuff that I`m just dying and, I mean, obviously not killing people.
PINSKY: Don`t worry, Michelle, now blaming you in any way.
WALSH: I`m sure, but I want to say one other thing that`s really important to this. There`s a great article at time.com today about what it is to be a man and young man. And a big sexualized culture that`s telling a man that if you`re 22 and a virgin you`re a loser, that somehow sexual prowess and the -- is OK in our culture right now. We need to really talk about what it is to be a man. And you know, getting laid a lot of times with a lot of people is not a definition of good manhood.
PINSKY: Michelle, do you have a question for Robert?
MORGAN: Yes?
FIELDS: I just wanted to know if you had spoken to his family since then.
MORGAN: No, I haven`t.
FIELDS: Since the incident.
MORGAN: No, none at all. The only thing is I`m Facebook friends with him. So, I see here and there things that are going on in this life and the only posts I`ve seen have been depressing, nothing at all about his parents.
PINSKY: Could you have been -- obviously it`s in retrospect, but let`s look forward here. Are there things that other people could do or see that you saw now in retrospect reading his social media that would alert other people to, hey, this is something real, pay attention, is there something that stands out for you?
MORGAN: I mean, not one picture or status in particular, but overall, yeah, all of his statuses. You know? Like most people are posting what they`re doing on the weekend or who they`re out and about with or pictures of what they`re eating. But he -- none of that, it was always bad. It was always this person let him down. This person did this. Mad at that girl.
PINSKY: All right. So, to me, to me, expressions of paranoia, extreme depression, any sort of aggressive fantasies, I say you take action. What`s the harm? Did we not learn that from this if nothing else?
WALSH: But people did take action. The police came, and he tricked them.
PINSKY: No, no, no. Wendy, who`s evident? Wendy, no, I understand. But I`m just saying something we can learn from this and move forward and use social media as a tool. Let`s try. Thank you, Robert.
Next up, deadly game, a boy is tied to a shopping cart then the cart is dropped into a lake. I`ll tell you about that one.
Also, someone who is holding his breath as he moves through a tunnel, it`s a game that, Sam, plays all the time, you`ll hear about in a minute, passes out while driving. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s playing Russian roulette and only to his point not you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vance Myering`s brother, Wyatt, somehow survived the crash. Wyatt was a passenger in this Toyota Camry driven by 19-year-old Daniel Calhon form Snohomish. Police say, Calhon held his breath through the tunnel, passed out and crossed the center line colliding into two other cars. The Camry crashed head-on into this explorer sending a couple from Astoria, Oregon, to the hospital. Man says playing games on the road almost took his brother`s life.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has a collapsed lung, put other drivers at risk. It`s stupid.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann, Vanessa, and Danine. Concerned about copycat drivers playing the so-called tunnel game inspired the Oregon state police to tweet this, quote, don`t play games on our road. Travel safe. Do you know more details about this, Sam?
SCHACHER: With the tunnel game?
PINSKY: Yeah.
SCHACHER: Come on. I grew up playing this game. And you basically -- you`re basically holding your breath as you go to this tunnel.
PINSKY: Hold on. You grew up playing this game?
SCHACHER: I still do, for my own OCD reasons. But I would never hold my breath until the point I`m about to pass out. OK? So, that`s where I think it`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: You saw the tunnel, it`s relatively short. I don`t think he planned to pass out, Sam.
SCHACHER: Oh, come on.
PINSKY: Think about that next time you drive through a tunnel.
SCHACHER: How many people play that game and don`t pass out? Give me a break.
PINSKY: Well, let me tell you as a physician for a second, if you hold your breath and bear down, your put yourself at higher risk. So, be careful. Vanessa, what do you say?
BARNETT: I`ve played it before myself. Going through the Pennsylvania Mountains, driving home from college, I mean, but like you said, you don`t hold your breath until you`re, like, wobbling at the wheel. That`s common sense.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
BARNETT: Like, you hold your breath for maybe about five seconds. If you`re not through the tunnel, give up on the game or breathe through your nose.
PINSKY: Danine is wringing her hands with this one.
DANINE MANETTE: I`ve never heard of this game. I must have lived a very sheltered life. I don`t get it. But what disturbs me is that, even if it was just something for fun, the big smile on this kid`s face in the hospital room. I`m kind of bothered by that. It just seems like, oh, ain`t I cool?
PINSKY: Well, let`s talk about more screw ball stunts by men.
Sadly the next one turned deadly for an 18-year-old who graduated from high school hours before, Sam, involving a shopping cart.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Would it being Jackass? Was that the whole point?
SCHACHER: That`s exactly what it reminded me of, Dr. Drew. So, it`s a group of high school friends in Georgia. They were fooling around with a shopping cart at a lake. The shopping cart was attached to a rope. Someone would climb into the shopping cart, and then the friends would push the cart off the dock and the person would swim to safety. However, one student tied his belt loop to the shopping cart, and the weight of the shopping cart prevented him from swimming to the surface. He drowned and his body was recovered the very next day.
PINSKY: It`s, you know, boys being -- man, we are screw balls, you know, we just are. And this is just an unfortunate tragedy. Turn of events.
BARNETT: Where are his friends?
LEEANN TWEEDEN: Right. I agree, but I think the problem is, is that, you know, kids are stupid, yes, they do things.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Not kids. Men. Men. I`m sorry there are no men on this panel other than me, but I`ll tell you. It`s us. We do this stuff. Women don`t do this. In fact, if, Wendy were here, she would tell you, we do it to try to prove our genetic prowess. There really is an evolutionary reasoning -- mating and dating. We try to show you what we can withstand, to show you that we have these genetic elements that allows us to withstand the -- whatever it is, craziness we`re doing.
TWEEDEN: But it`s stupid. So, does that mean he was not a man because he was too dumb to tie to a rope and he killed himself?
PINSKY: No. no. no.
TWEEDEN: I mean, it`s just -- it`s one of those things, Dr. Drew, that I think today with social media with kids trying to one-up themselves. To -- you know, remember that game that the kids were playing, they would post videos of themselves drinking a drink upside down? Right, exactly. And then they`re like, hey, tag, you`re it, Dr. Drew, you have to one-up me. Five guys died of that at least. At least five children have died. There are kids have died from that. I just think that these kids today are -- now that they have social media, they`re putting themselves out there and they`re just trying to do more and more stupid things and it`s ridiculous.
PINSKY: And again, you mentioned, Leeann, five guys -- five guys died.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: Again, proof positive that females are more advanced form of the human being. I`m just saying.
TWEEDEN: Hopefully there`s a guy out there that says, no, thank you, I don`t want to do it.
PINSKY: Well, one of those guys is not Rob Ford because he spent his birthday in a bar. He went out of treatment.
SCHACHER: Oh, come on.
PINSKY: No. Not come on. I ran a treatment center for 20 years. I do not understand somebody going out of treatment to a bar, but we`ll talk about it when we get back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Toronto Mayor Rob Ford, the man we have been calling and is known as crack mayor, is taking time off to take a break to get treatment, get help.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU: I hope he`s motivated to get well, Dr. Drew. It might just be politics.
PINSKY: My fears is that he`s gonna come back and be so fully recovery that`s he`s going to, I don`t know, this is -- we`ll see how it goes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann, Vanessa, and Ginger. My fears were unfounded. This is not a -- Mr. Crack Mayor Rob Ford celebrated his 45th birthday last night at a bar. We have a new photo. It`s our most tweeted about story of the day. Here he is with a patron at Crabby Joe`s Tap and Grill. Now, first of all, I didn`t know he was going to become a Sponge Bob character, the Crabby Patty bar. I don`t understand, but OK. No evidence that he was drinking. He actually looks good in this picture, doesn`t he? Less plethoric. He looks good. I mean, but you would never -- Vanessa, you would never -- as a treatment, somebody who ran treatment centers, you`d never release somebody from treatment to go do anything at a bar. I mean, not to say that you can necessarily control that, but it`s certainly wouldn`t be recommended.
BARNETT: I`m sure, Dr. Drew, you wouldn`t recommend it, but I mean, let`s be honest, his name is crack mayor. Where did you expect him to celebrate his birthday?
SCHACHER: Oh, come on.
BARNETT: I`m just saying, and he didn`t drink, and it`s also a grill. What if he wanted a burger?
SCHACHER: Thank you.
BARNETT: What if he wanted some fries? Like, he has -- at some point he has to assimilate back into regular society.
PINSKY: No, no, no, no.
BARNETT: And he is OK. He went and he didn`t drink.
PINSKY: Yeah. I understand. Well, put the picture back up again. Didn`t I see a bunch of beer behind him there? (Inaudible)
BARNETT: They`re standing in front of a bar.
PINSKY: Right. And here`s the deal. See all those glasses of beer behind him, or pitchers (inaudible)? The fact is, we tell patients clearly, do not test yourself. If you feel the need to test yourself, there`s something wrong.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: Because you shouldn`t be able to go into those environments and feel just OK. Sam, what do you think?
SCHACHER: OK. I agree with that statement. However, I`ve been very harsh on Rob Ford, but I`m going to defend him here.
PINSKY: Well, he looks better. He looks better.
SCHACHER: Listen, if his doctors and his treatment center thought that it would be OK for him, for one hour to go out to this restaurant/bar with his family to celebrate his birthday, who are we to get on him? He`s in treatment.
TWEEDEN: Oh, come on. Why can`t he go to Denny`s?
PINSKY: Well, she -- but he.
BARNETT: Who celebrates their birthday at Denny`s?
SCHACHER: Who goes to Denny`s?
TWEEDEN: Well, whatever. Go anywhere.
PINSKY: There`s a gentle lady that are talking just a second, but here`s the thing. I`m really not taking issue with Mayor Ford. I`m taking issue with the treatment center. I`m wondering if they really dropped the ball.
SCHACHER: There you go.
PINSKY: Ginger, go ahead.
GINGER GONZAGA: I was just going to say if I smoked as much crack as Rob Ford and made it to 45, I`d be celebrating at Crabby Joe`s Tap and Grill as well. But I do think to the possibility, you know, the rehab facility shouldn`t be letting him out, but if he did go to this bar, and if he generally just (inaudible) on diet coke and diet coke alone, I`d would tell this as a victory. You know, addiction issues are obviously very difficult and he`s in the limelight so it man makes it more difficult. So, probably even worst to test himself, but I would tout it as a victory for him.
PINSKY: Mostly, I`m amazed that, Ginger, remembers the name of this institution.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Yes, Leeann.
TWEEDEN: You know, look, I`ve always said this when we talked about him in the past, that he should get out of the race and become a reality star. Because obviously, people like watching him and they like watching his thing, but he`s still trying to run for mayor, OK? He`s trying to run for re-election, bad idea to be going through therapy and then show up at a bar even though it is a bar and grill, just bad judgment on his part. If I was a constituent, I would think that`s probably not the place while you`re still in the middle of treatment to go and put yourself around alcohol and things that could trigger you to do these other bad choices that you made.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: He can do no right you guys. Come on, it`s like we`re on him. He can do no right. I mean, give me a break. He`s in treatment. Let`s lay off of him.
TWEEDEN: He kept relapsing time and time again.
PINSKY: She`s right.
SCHACHER: OK. Let`s lay off a little bit.
PINSKY: He`s a chronic relapse, and this is a bad sign.
SCHACHER: He`s never been in treatment before.
PINSKY: No, but he.
SCHACHER: So, let`s give him some credit, you guys.
PINSKY: Sam, you`re onto something here. I`m not completely coming down on the guy. But the fact is it`s a bad sign. Maybe it was someone didn`t educate him about it being a bad idea. Maybe he won`t do it again. Maybe he`s in outpatient treatment. He is sort of moving along freely in society right now, and sort of overstepped a boundary and thought he was going to test himself. I`ve had patients do that. People can criticize me, and my patients have done that in the past. But we try -- usually it`s the patients that do it, by the way. They insist upon it and it`s a bad idea. I hope he recognizes it`s a bad idea because you eventually -- it`s your disease talking to you when you say you have to test yourself, because you`re out of control. And if you accept powerlessness, you`re going to understand eventually in that environment there will be a problem or some other environment. Thank you, panel.
PINSKY: Next -- stay with me, guys -- we`re talking belfies (ph). Did I pronounce it right? Belfies. (ph) By the way, I took one on myself. It`s on our Instagram.
SCHACHER: That`s right.
PINSKY: Check it out, @drdrewhln. And we are back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Instagram, we got to talk. So, if any of you follow me on Instagram, you know that I post a variety of things including my puppy and food and pictures of my butt. Recently I had a photo that was flagged and taken down on Instagram. This is the photo. I find it annoying all these photos are on your site and don`t get taken down. And this photo does.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: She has a point. Back with Sam, Leeann, Vanessa, and Ginger, that YouTube video got the attention of Instagram whose photo policies have been under fire. I mean, she makes a great point, Sam. So, what`s the story here?
SCHACHER: Yeah, well that, first of all, that`s Meagan Tanja (ph), she`s a YouTube personality, a singer, I love her. She`s awesome. I`ve met her. And she`s doing whatever everybody else is doing. So, Nicky Minaj, and Kim Kardashian.
PINSKY: Well, she showed us all those pictures. (CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: Well, did you see the belfie? First of all, the belfie is a butt selfie. For those of you out there that don`t know what a belfie is, it is a butt selfie.
PINSKY: Are these Instagram pictures?
SCHACHER: That`s Kim Kardashian`s belfie. There`s Nicki Minaj`s belfie. There`s a girl named Jen (inaudible) who`s made the belfie quite profitable for herself --, and I wish we could show -- there she is. That`s Jen. She`s got a great ass I have to say it. I follow her on Instagram. Let me tell you. But, yeah, so then this poor girl, Meagan, puts up her belfie. And she`s trying to lose weight right now and she`s documenting it through YouTube. And then hers gets taken down. Luckily, she made that YouTube video and then they put it back up.
PINSKY: Good. I think it`s shaming to women who -- is this her?
SCHACHER: That`s her. That`s Meagan. Yeah.
PINSKY: It`s nice. Good. What do you guys feel? Ginger, what do you say?
GONZAGA: I think she has every right to be upset because they were censoring other belfies and not her. And I think that when women are trying to lose weight for some reason it is sort of inspiring to put it on Instagram. What I don`t like is the trend of people thinking about rights for Instagram. So, there`s also the new trend of saying, #freethenipple.
SCHACHER: Yeah.
GONZAGA: And rumor or not rumor, but Scott Willis, Bruce Willis` daughter is hash tagging, like free the nipple, let me show my nipples on Instagram. And I think social media has causes our generation solidified of what`s important. Black people used to not be able to vote, Wendy has not be able to vote. Gay -- So, those are rights. Those are things we should be fighting for. I don`t think we need to be campaigning.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Hold on. I`ll let you stay and talk in a second, Leeann. I`m trying to take in what, Ginger, said that we should not be comparing free the nipple with free the -- (inaudible) yet. So, I guess that what are you saying. But explain the free the nipple thing, Sam, to me.
SCHACHER: So, it`s exactly what we just heard from, Ginger, free the nipple is a response to Instagram banning nudity. So, people are protesting just like Scott Willis just did.
PINSKY: So, I have saw pictures of Scott Willis walking.
SCHACHER: She would screen her nipples literally.
PINSKY: She was walking around nude where? Is that New York?
SCHACHER: New York. You can go topless in New York for you New Yorkers out there.
PINSKY: You can?
SCHACHER: Yeah. You can.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, what I have a problem with, is that people go to these platforms to post, right? But there are rules. It`s like, when you play a game, you go in and you have to play by the rules. You can`t go in, play the game and then go, oh, hey, I want to change by the rules. And if you don`t let me -- they say there`s no nudity, sure, they need to figure it out and do it across the line what they feel is nudity. They can`t pick and choose. I agree with that, but if you go to a platform that doesn`t allow it and then you get mad, well, then go to another platform or create your own social media.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Whoa, whoa. Vanessa?
BARNETT: You have to fight for what you believe in. And yes, this is a little petty, but at the end of the day if I have are to look at James Franco`s pubic hair, and I have look at man boobs and I have look at slutty girls in minuscule bikinis, then let me look at artistic breasts or look at breast-feeding mothers. Like, I was a breast-feeding mother. You can`t ban me, but then I got to look at Kim Kardashian`s butt or James Franco.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let`s forget that. Let`s forget that it is unfair. Listen, we started this story, the last few days we`ve been talking about a story that was highly misogynistic. This is extremely sexist and it really -- and it creates a split amongst women, doesn`t it, Ginger? I mean, you`re going to have women that are allowed to do it, women that are not?
GONZAGA: Oh, that`s terrible. I mean, the fact that some women were allowed to do it, you know, whoever took that down at Instagram is who knows who he is. Some kid that works on that part of the site, like I don`t like this butt, let me take it down. It`s terrible. It`s so shameful.
TWEEDEN: Have it fair across the board. They just need to get their stuff together. There gonna be no nudity, no nudity across the board.
PINSKY: I got to get my stuff together and I gotta get out of here. Please DVR us right now. Check us out on Instagram. Like us on Facebook, and watch us anytime if you DVR us. Forensic Files is next, and it starts right now.
END
