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Dr. Drew

Mini-Van Mom Out of Jail

Aired June 02, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, mini-van mom is out of jail, but she`s still in big trouble for driving her car into the ocean with kids inside. Her ex is here exclusively questioning her release.

Plus, outrage. A school employee is fired because of this -- allegedly handcuffing, punching, and then dumping a helpless man from a wheelchair. Does this viral video tell the whole story?

Our behavior bureau has answers. Let`s get started.

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(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening. Samantha Schacher is my co-host.

And coming up, Justin Bieber says he is sorry, sorry for using the N- word when he was 15.

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: That`s right. The one and only Ms. Ali will be here to share her thoughts.

PINSKY: Slow down. Ms. Ali is coming in tonight about Justin?

SCHACHER: Yes.

PINSKY: Interesting.

All right. Before we get on to that we have the mother who drove a minivan into the ocean. Her three kids inside. She has been released from jail. Her estranged husband apparently got her out.

Take a look at this story.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can see the waves start to swallow the car and pull it out to sea.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A pregnant woman and her three young children are trapped inside.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Two in the back seat was crying, with her arms out saying, "Our mom is trying to kill us, please help."

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Back in March, Ebony Wilkerson drove her minivan with her kids inside right into the surf at Daytona Beach.

PINSKY: A few hours before she drove that car into the ocean, her own sister made this 911 call.

SISTER: I tried to take her to the hospital yesterday. She signed herself out today, talking about Jesus and there`s demons in my house.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMAE: How does a woman with mental illness have four children?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wilkerson who allegedly came to Florida to get away from an abusive husband stood by that in court but also said she trusts Lutful Ronjon.

EBONY WILKERSON: I feel that I`m back to my normal self, and feeling like my old self, like old Ebony.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Vanessa Barnett, social commentator and host of Hiphollywood.com. Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media, Loni Coombs, author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell."

She says she`s back to her, quote, "normal self." Vanessa, what do you think?

VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: I am almost inclined to believe her. I don`t see any person who`s 100 percent sane driving their minivan into the ocean. It`s obvious there was some clearly mental issues that were happening and now, she`s been, you know, sedated. She`s been hospitalized. She`s under medication.

I really feel like she truly believes she`s back to the person she used to be.

SCHACHER: Yes, Vanessa, I agree. But here`s the thing -- she`s always had, not always, but she`s had a longstanding history with mental illness. She`s been in psychiatric care before. She`s been on medication. My fear is just under three months long enough for somebody to be seemingly normal? I mean, Amanda Bines did almost six months and didn`t attempt to kill her children.

PINSKY: I think Michelle will agree with you and that, Michelle, before you go off here, I want to let you know, the judge did set restrictions. Here they are -- that she must see a psychiatrist, have no contact with children and must stay in the Volusia County where she lives.\

So, Michelle, now, do -- I`m so frustrated with you, Michelle. Do you leave any room for somebody with mental illness to be sort of carefully monitored and is that enough?

MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: I think she also needs to be punished, though. I think her bail ought to be higher. I think $90,000 was not enough. I don`t think she should be with the regular population.

She shouldn`t be allowed out. She`s putting other people at risk when she`s out. I`m sorry, you can take pills for a few day. That`s not going to cure the level of craziness this woman is on.

She needs way more than three months on pills. The woman is evil. She`s pregnant. She even tried to stop people helping the children getting out of the car.

The woman needs to be locked up. She has a long history of this stuff. In 2007, she killed someone with erratic driving.

SCHACHER: I don`t think she`s evil.

PINSKY: Michelle, so, I want to get your logic right here. The principles you operate from.

FIELDS: OK.

PINSKY: When somebody does something horrific, even in an altered state, let`s say she had a brain tumor. Same thing, her brain`s not working right. Let`s say it was a brain tumor and made her do something awful.

That person is evil and should never be given a break?

FIELDS: You have to be held accountable. She needs to be held accountable. I mean, what she did, she didn`t go steal candy from a store. This woman went, tried to kill her children, tried to kill the baby in her stomach. This is not just, you know, this is not a mistake, this is not an accident. This is evil what she did.

PINSKY: Loni, hang on a second. Loni, is $90,000 enough of a bail? It`s a pretty steep bail, no?

LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: It is a pretty steep bail. Let me tell you, bail is not punishment. The punishment is yet to come. This is not the end of the case, just because --

PINSKY: Where`s it going to go, what do you think? Where`s she`s going to go?

COOMBS: Well, it`s probably going to go to trial or negotiated plea, where they work out some type of jail time.

PINSKY: So, there will be punishment.

COOMBS: Yes, she`s still looking at all the prison time. She`s still charged with three charges of second-degree murder, attempted murder. And also --

FIELDS: She`s a risk to the general population.

COOMBS: OK, look --

FIELDS: If she can do this to her kids --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: One at a time.

COOMBS: Bail is to determine if you`re a danger to the society and if you`re a bail risk.

FIELDS: Yes, and she is a danger. I understand that. She is a danger.

PINSKY: Listen, you guys, it is possible for clinician judgment to prevail. I could -- I work with peers and possibly even certain circumstances, myself, I can judge whether someone`s going to be a risk or not and you leave the responsibility to us.

COOMBS: Right.

PINSKY: And as long as the patient cooperates with their treatment, they`re not going to be a risk and the fact is the judge is requiring her to do that. If you bolts, if she`s AWOL, then, God help her, she`s going back to jail, right?

COOMBS: Right. And, Dr. Drew, the judge did listen to a doctor who came in and testified and said, look, I evaluated her. She`s not hallucinating. She`s not hearing any religious delusions anymore. She is back to, you know, normal.

She`s stable. She needs to stay on her meds.

PINSKY: According to Michelle, nobody with mental illness can never be satisfactorily treated.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: Just like with me other illness --

PINSKY: One at a time. Vanessa, then (INAUDIBLE). Vanessa, first.

BARNETT: If you break your leg, you need time to heal. If you have a mental illness, you need to time to heal. You have to give her the time to take medicine.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: She didn`t say that she felt like she needed to go out and live her life like she used to live it. She said she started feeling back to normal. She does not have her kids and --

PINSKY: That`s right. She`s still being monitored and structured. Wait, I want to give Michelle a chance. Finish it up, Michelle.

FIELDS: Look, I just think if she can do this to her children, she can do worse things to strangers. I think that is a risk having her out there.

Why not be cautious? Make the bail higher so she`s not out there and doesn`t kill more people, OK? You can say, oh, she`s going to see a psychiatrist, she`s going to be under moderation, but -- under supervision. But what if she goes out there and does something like that?

(CROSSTALK)

SCHACHER: Are we supposed to keep people suffering from mental illness locked up forever though they can be rehabilitated and --

FIELDS: The level of mental illness, this is someone who killed -- tried to kill her children. This is someone who`s evil. This is terrible.

SCHACHER: I don`t think she`s evil.

PINSKY: Let`s bring in -- well, she was behaving in an evil way. I will grant you that, whether you use the word sin or sick or evil. We agree what her behavior was, was unacceptable.

So, let me bring in behavior bureau and also have her aunt here exclusively with her questions about minivan mom`s mental state. She will join the behavior bureau after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SISTER: I tried to take her to the hospital yesterday and she signed herself out today. She`s getting a little bit better, but her -- she`s still not all here. She`s trying to drive and I`m trying to stop her and she has her kids. I took her keys. She`s talking about Jesus and that there`s demons in my house and that I was trying to control her but I`m trying to keep them safe.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and that was, of course, the 911 call from Ebony Wilkerson`s sister made just two hours before she drove her minivan into the ocean. That woman, that minivan mom is out of jail tonight.

Let`s bring in behavior bureau. I`ve got Judy Ho, clinical psychologist. Erica America, Z100 Radio personality and psychotherapist. And Tiffanie Davis Henry, HLN contributor and psychotherapist.

Now, in 2005, after giving birth, she reportedly said she had a delusion, and a delusion is where you have abnormal thoughts and in her case she believed, quote, "TV people were putting voodoo spells on her." People that have delusions often think people on television are speaking directly to them or doing things to them.

Judy, you`re going, uh-huh, uh-huh.

And she also recently gave birth to a child. Judy, do we have concerns the post-partum stress, having just delivered a baby, could be enough to precipitate another psychotic episode?

JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Absolutely, Dr. Drew. Post-partum depression is one of the major stressors that can lead to a delusion, in this case a delusion was reference is what she was having before. I don`t believe she`s had enough exposure, consistent exposure to treatment that we can really trust her with any responsibility such as even self-care. So, how can we trust her wit taking care of another child?

PINSKY: Well, Tiffanie, you, or Judy, or Erica, or I, could be given the charge of making that call and somebody well trained with forensic experience made the call and said she was safe. What do you think?

TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, they didn`t say she was safe to take care of her kids. They said she was safe enough to get the bail and be out. But with the stipulations you mentioned before.

And I think those are really important. She cannot have contact with those kids. My main concern is, now there is these rumblings that she may be back with the husband.

SCHACHER: Right.

HENRY: And the husband has custody of the child that she just gave birth to. So who`s taking care of the child when her and the husband are together? That`s my question. I want to make sure that that baby is safe.

PINSKY: Erica?

ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Yes, you know, this is a touchy subject because she does have the right to bail. However, you know, she needs to have absolutely no contact with her children including the newborn. And I think she needs to be -- the medication management is key here because we know she`s had psychosis, you said delusional thoughts even before this event. So, she has a propensity to two back to that state.

But I also do want to say, I did disagree with someone who said it`s evil. This is mental illness. It is not evil. That`s a very over the top statement.

PINSKY: Erica, people can do evil things when they`re mentally ill. The problem is, they can get better and look at that as evil, themselves. And wonder what happened.

And listen, everybody, think about -- get the camera on me for a second. Think about a seizure or a brain tumor. It`s the same thing as having a biological problem like mental illness. Somehow when there`s something growing in your head, people go, oh, I get that, but if there`s a biological chemical problem, people go, no, she`s evil, we`re not going to give her a break.

Judy, you wanted to say something.

HO: Yes, I was going to say I`m concerned about the way our court system works, which is that they always try to reconcile with the biological family and especially the mother.

So, eventually, I think they`re going to work toward reconciliation for this family. I`m just worried they`re going to start doing it when the mom is not yet stable, even if they`re doing monitored visits. I don`t think she can behave herself to be able to be a positive influence on the children.

SCHACHER: Right, Judy, that`s my fear. Like we talked about, this is something where she`s been in and out of treatment for years. She`s delusions for years, then she gets normal then she has delusions.

So, how are we supposed to know if she`s healthy and seemingly normal for a year and on her medication that this won`t happen again?

PINSKY: The reason it happens -- Erica, I`ll let you follow up. What happens is when people start feeling normal start feeling they don`t need the medication. They stop the medication and that`s why decompensating it. That`s what always happens.

In this case, she`s being held accountable by the legal system. If there`s a hint that she`s not on her meds, she`ll be back in jail. Erica?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good.

AMERICA: Yes, there needs to be court-ordered medication management.

PINSKY: There is. There is. There is.

AMERICA: I don`t like the phrase -- I don`t like the phrase back to normal self because when you have a mental illness, like she does, it`s a lifelong thing. Yes, you might feel better for a while but it could come back and you have to be very vigilant like I said before with the medication.

PINSKY: Tiffanie?

AMERICA: I don`t think it`s evil. It`s something --

PINSKY: I don`t disagree. Whatever word you want to use, we`re all talking about the same thing.

Tiffanie, go ahead.

HENRY: No, I 100 percent agree with Erica. I think this is a bigger conversation that we continue to have on this show about mental illness in this country and how individuals who may not have suffered from mental illness or a loved one who suffers from mental illness, doesn`t understand or appreciate the significance of it and how debilitating it is and how it is something that people cannot help. Yet before the grace of God, all of us could have it.

PINSKY: Yes.

HENRY: At any given time.

PINSKY: Michelle Fields, Tiffanie is talking to you. She`s talking specifically to you, Michelle. You`ll have a chance to have at me again later in the show.

Thank you, guys.

Next up, a baby-sitter records herself -- this is evil. A baby-sitter records herself abusing a baby because a pedophile she met online asked her to do it. Get that after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: You are looking at someone who committed an unspeakable, horrific -- I don`t have enough words to describe the level of this crime and she`s admitted to this. Laura Shoulders, a 47-year-old baby-sitter, used her iPhone to make three pornographic babies with -- excuse me, three pornographic -- I almost can`t speak about this -- three pornographic videos with a 1-year-old baby because a man she met on Craigslist asked her to do it. He then shared the images with other pedophiles.

Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Judy, Erica, Tiffanie.

This is our most tweeted story of day.

Tiffanie, this is one I have trouble getting my head around. This is evil, my dear, this is evil.

HENRY: Right. It`s evil, its disgusting, it`s reprehensible. I can`t think of the negative words that I would use to describe it.

This is a 47-year-old woman who was supposed to be left caring for this 1-year-old child. She was the baby-sitter.

Not only did she, you know, sexually assault this baby, she -- I can`t get it out either. She`s performing oral sex on the baby twice. And also using the baby`s hand to masturbate herself.

This was the most disgusting thing I have ever read I think since I`ve been here at HLN.

PINSKY: See, this is so different. Do you get, Sam, how different this is?

SCHACHER: Absolutely.

PINSKY: This is not about a mom in a psychotic state driving a van in the ocean. This is a premeditated sort of weird attempt to get attention of a man by permanently damaging a child and then distributing pornography that is -- I hope this -- this is criminal behavior.

SCHACHER: Twenty-seven years. Thank God.

PINSKY: I`m not sure that`s long enough.

SCHACHER: She`s in her 40s.

PINSKY: I`m with you on that, Tiffanie. Why is everybody worried about this woman coming out doing it again?

SCHACHER: Hold on, 27 years I said that because she`s in her late 40s. That will carry her into her -- I don`t know -- do the math. So, yes, ideally she should be in longer.

HENRY: A lot of 72-year-old pedophiles walking around --

PINSKY: Thank you. Thank you.

SCHACHER: I do not think this is a --

PINSKY: I want to give Erica and Judy a chance. Erica first.

AMERICA: Sure, yes, I think this is pedophilia, whether she was doing it just to please the guy or it was her own pedophilic instincts. She severely abused and traumatized this young girl for the rest of her life, will need lifelong therapy. So, of course, it`s extremely disturbing.

But when you think of how could someone do this? She was so in it and so in the compulsion to please this guy or do what she did that she didn`t think about the effects until after. It`s truly --

PINSKY: Or never.

AMERICA: We need to look into her past to see if she did anything else. It`s surprising that it would be this violent as a first time offense.

SCHACHER: Erica, she`s had no --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She got caught.

SCHACHER: She`s had no fewer than ten aliases, had two misdemeanors, two for writing bogus checks. Also, I have the police report here. Four year suspended sentence for forging a prescription, Dr. Drew, for (IANUDIBLE)

PINSKY: Right, that`s a psycho stimulant.

So, Judy, a drug addiction would sort of help us understand this a little bit. I don`t think that`s what this is.

SCHACHER: Just her criminal history.

HO: Yes, criminality.

PINSKY: I think it`s criminality and I think she probably was abused herself. And I don`t think she gives one damn about other human beings. Judy, you agree?

HO: I do agree. I don`t think she has any compassion at all. She has a huge criminal history. And quite frankly she has probably dependent personality disorder if she would be willing to do anything in the world just to please other people.

It may be even how her criminal history even started. That she was with men who actually prompted her to do these things and just did it and that built on itself. She became not remorseful about any of her actions so what`s another action even if it`s something as atrocious as this?

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, what would her background, what would cause somebody to do something like this?

PINSKY: Oftentimes, people are sexually abused themselves can become a perpetrator. This doesn`t have the usual feel. She isn`t doing it -- she`s doing it because of a need to be accepted and in her mind loved by another human being. That`s what Judy is talking about, dependent personality.

So, here`s the deal -- although my behavior panel and myself are helping you explain the dynamics that make humans do these things, they`re still evil. They`re not excused. They don`t give somebody a reason that it`s OK to do these things. Just a way for us to understand these things so hopefully we can do preventative measures earlier and also know what to do with people who go to this point which is put her away and do not let her out.

This is evil behavior, Michelle. When we get you back, I`ll give you a chance, a difference between somebody who`s psychotic because their brain isn`t working right and someone whose entire character is helplessly disturbed.

Speaking of helpless, I have a student -- a helpless student dumped from his wheelchair by someone hired to help and protect him. Look at this video. This will blow you away. There it is. That`s a kid in a wheelchair.

We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Security officer Marcell Mitchell is wheeling sophomore Francisco Martinez down the hall against his will. Look in the middle of your screen and you can see Mitchell hit Martinez several times in the head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s when he strikes me two times with an open hand so hard in my face that I had bruises.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Martinez says that Mitchell and another security guard beat him up in the elevator before the scene you see from the security camera.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officer just puts his whole weight behind my back and I have surgery today. So, of course, it`s painful, and I screamed. And I said, OK, you win.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Wow. Back with Sam, Judy, Loni, and Tiffanie.

The security guard was fired for allegedly handcuffing, punching, dumping that kid. He`s a freshman. He dumped him out of his wheelchair.

And, Sam, he supposedly was not cooperating. What do we know about this?

SCHACHER: Right. OK. So, apparently, there`s this security guard, another one. They`re trying to get all the kids into class on time. Now, apparently according to the principal, this student was either not complying or was moving too slowly. Remember, he`s in a wheelchair.

PINSKY: I heard he was aggressive. The kid was aggressive.

SCHACHER: OK. So, fine. The security guard starts to move him into, toward the classroom. That`s when the security guard claims that he slapped the security guard, also spit on the security guard and that`s why the security guard handcuffed him, struck him several times.

You saw how hard he did that and threw him out of the wheelchair.

PINSKY: Loni, I have questions about this. I mean, if, say, a mental health professional in a psychiatric hospital was assaulted, they can`t fight back. Isn`t that part of the job, the security guard, to maintain boundaries, policies of those around him to have ways of managing aggressive individuals?

COOMBS: Yes. Absolutely. In fact, this security guard hired as a part-time employee in November had just taken a training class in April as to the appropriate procedures. And clearly, what he did here is when he was pushing that wheelchair, and the student turned around and started slapping his hands, he handcuffed him at that point.

SCHACHER: Right.

COOMBS: So, what you`re seeing on the video is he`s already handcuffed when he then supposedly the student spit. He admits, yes, I spit on him because my hands were handcuffed and at that point the security guard starts to hit him. And it`s with such force and violence at that point, and then dumped him out of the wheelchair. Clearly beyond any type of reasonable policy that anyone would be taught.

PINSKY: And Loni, isn`t that almost criminal behavior on part of the security guard?

COOMBS: Well, yes. And I will give the school great credit here. They did not sit back as we`ve seen so many times by schools. They jumped in. They called the police. The police came and investigated and he has been charged with a felony here in this case.

PINSKY: OK.

SCHACHER: Good.

COOMBS: So, there`s legal action.

PINSKY: Tiffanie, it makes me think of the UCSB situation where the police so severely misread the circumstance, and the kid, what the responsibilities were. Do we do we need to do a better job of educating people? Because there`s a lot of mental health stuff out there. Educating people who are in positions of authority like this?

TIFFANIE DAVIS HENRY, PH.D.: I think it would be, who left to educate all of -- everyone on what to expect, what not to expect and how people respond and how you don`t respond or escalate a situation.

PINSKY: Right.

HENRY: When you don`t really have to.

PINSKY: Don`t escalate.

HENRY: He`s already handcuffed.

PINSKY: Yup.

HENRY: If he`s spitting on him, guess what, if I`m pushing you in your wheelchair, I`m behind you. You`re not really gonna spit on me. You never really gonna spit on me.

PINSKY: It`s not going to land anywhere.

HENRY: Right.

PINSKY: Judy, do you remember the case where we had the police that just shot and killed the guy in his bedroom who was psychotic because they didn`t know how to manage that kid?

JUDY HO, PH.D.: Right. I do remember that. And I think, one of the things that make these things a little bit difficult for execution is that there are different subcultures for different types of professions. When we`re thinking about security guards, what are the types of concerns that they`re usually thinking about? Even if it is in a context of working in the school, even if they have the proper training and the proper protocols, where are their minds? And what are the pre-existing reasons most people get into the security business?

PINSKY: Tiffanie.

HENRY: Yeah, you know, the other thing that struck me is that this security guard is 23 years old. And I don`t know what you were doing at 23 years old, how equipped you felt to handle this type of situation, but I don`t necessarily know that a 23-year-old should be the security guard at the school. You`re not that far removed from high school as it is.

PINSKY: Yup.

HENRY: And dealing with high school students you pretty much take it to the street and do what you know.

PINSKY: And you better have a lot of support.

HENRY: And it seems like (inaudible) he was doing.

PINSKY: Lot of support.

HENRY: And patience. And patience.

HO: And here`s the thing, too, about the gentleman that was in the wheelchair. People who are physically disabled tend to start to see the world as a hostile environment, because guess what, they are at more risk for being abused and ridiculed. So, I understand sort of where he started aggressing on the security guard as well. You know, it`s probably part of his world view.

PINSKY: Thank you. Thank you. And listen, he`s not without any responsibility for how the interaction went down, but where it went, that`s where we have problems.

Now, speaking of where somebody went, I`ve got Justin Bieber using the N word and the question here is he a racist? I brought my Miss Ali, there she is, I brought Miss Ali in to talk to us about that. She has an opinion that might surprise you. Hear after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This way, this way.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Justin Bieber is in hot water for using a racial slur and then joking about it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was caught on tape and TMZ just released the tape.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He used the N word in the joke over and over again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you watched the video, you cringe kind of watching it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (Inaudible) he`s 15, that does that make any difference to you?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do we think Justin Bieber is a racist? No. Do we think that`s stupid and dumb of him to do? Yes.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Vanessa, Erica, and Michelle. Here`s the video that has him in hot water. It was obtained by TMZ. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUSTIN BEIBER: Father`s day.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s just mean. That`s just ridiculous.

BEIBER: Why are black people afraid of chainsaws?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t even say it. Don`t say it.

BEIBER: (BLEEP).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can say motorcycle, too. (BLEEP).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: All right. Sam, big reaction out there. What are we hearing?

SCHACHER: Yeah. Huge reaction on our Facebook page for once. So, Janice posted, quote, no sympathy from me. A racist is a racist at any age. If you can form the intent to let the word roll off your tongue, you need to just take the consequences. Strong opinions on Twitter, too. Joe tweeted, quote, thank God no one was making videos of whatever dumb crap I said or did when I was 15. I don`t remember and shudder to imagine.

PINSKY: Well, public figures have a little more responsibility, and on the phone, I`ve got Shahrazad Ali. She is a social commentator, on to the black woman`s guide to understand a black man. Miss Ali, you`re my go-to for these situations. What your thoughts?

SHAHRAZAD ALI, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, you know, Justin Bieber is young. He`s a great singer and entertainer, but he has no real identity because he got thrust into this so quickly into being famous and singing and traveling. And he`s hanging out with a lot of black guys. That`s part of his posse. And they teach him how to stand, sit, dress, sing, and everything. And dance. And so, by now, Justin Bieber probably thinks he is black. I don`t think he meant anything, you know, by that. And let`s level the N word joke, please. OK. Let`s move that after.

PINSKY: How do we do that?

ALI: OK. Almost every adult white person in America has told the N word joke, laughed at an N word joke. I heard one. So, you know, everybody knows about this. I know some N word jokes. You know? Everybody does.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Yeah, but.

ALI: You know, we`ve been the brunt of this kind of humor for over 14 years so everybody has done that. So, you all must be getting ready to just come down on every white person in America because almost everybody`s got their secret N word jokes.

PINSKY: Well, I see the pain on Vanessa`s face and what you`re saying, Miss Ali. Let me go to, Vanessa, first.

VANESSA BARNETT: It`s just another generalization that doesn`t actually surprise me, but what I`m saying is we don`t need to call Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow Coalition, it`s not that serious but just to brush it off as to say that he`s young and he`s dumb and he hangs around black people, no, that`s not what we have here. We have a boy being a boy thinking that he can tell a joke that wasn`t funny and thinking he can get away with it. You can even hear a friend in the background like, don`t say it, don`t say it. These people know the N word is off limits. Like, I don`t care if you`re 15 or 55. This is not -- you don`t need to say it.

PINSKY: Yeah, Vanessa, and there are -- Michelle, hold on a second. Erica, I want to go to you first because we have two racist stories in the news lately. One, the early stages of life when people are forming their ability to contain these kinds of impulses, the other is Sterling later in life who loses the ability to contain because of the effects of aging. It`s still all racism, don`t you agree, Erica?

ERICA AMERICA: Yeah, I don`t think that, you know, age has any excuse for it, but really -- Justin Bieber, this is not a good look for him. OK? He`s had a horrible year. This was not a good thing to come out. He was young, but I really -- I don`t think he`s actually racist. I think that at the age that he was at, he had -- who was supervising him, who was teaching him right from wrong? Was it a parent? Was it a manager? What ever, what -- it`s not there and it`s entitlement. And I think what`s so interesting is that now he`s so heavily influenced by hip hop culture he`s probably, you know, incredibly embarrassed which is why he quickly, the same day, wrote an entire long apology.

PINSKY: I`ll read you the apology.

AMERICA: But I don`t agree with Miss Ali.

PINSKY: Well, hold on. Let me read the apology. It reads in part, you guys have put -- here we go. As a kid I didn`t understand the power of certain words. I thought it was OK to repeat hurtful words and jokes but didn`t realize it wasn`t funny and my actions were continuing the ignorance. Now, Michelle, I brought it all to you. Here we go.

ALI: Hey, wait a minute.

PINSKY: Hold it, Miss Ali. Hold on a second.

MICHELLE FIELDS: He`s not racist.

PINSKY: Hang on a second. Then, Michelle. I`m sorry.

FIELDS: He`s not racist. I mean, the fact that people are trying to draw a comparison between him and Donald Sterling. This is just a young kid. He`s a punk. He said something stupid. Was it dumb? Yes, it`s offensive. But he`s not racist. The difference is Donald Sterling has a whole history, record of being discriminatory, of being prejudice. Justin Bieber doesn`t. Even many of his African-American friends, colleagues have come out and said, yes, he`s an idiot for saying this but he`s not racist. He`s not prejudice. It`s a 15-year-old kid who made a mistake. He`s not racist, though.

PINSKY: Miss Ali, hold on. You go ahead.

ALI: What I was saying, is that, this -- first of all, this isn`t a generalization. This is an actualization. It`s not the young racist I`m worried about anyway. I`m not worried about no young undeveloped boy saying something like that. I`m worried about those old racists that are in those corporate employment offices and in the judicial system. Them the racists I`m worried about. I`m not worried about no boy making a silly comment at the age of 15.

BARNETT: But the boy racist becomes the old head racist, and I`m not saying Justin Bieber is a racist.

(CROSSTALK)

AMERICA: He`s racist because he said that word.

BARNETT: He`s not a racist. He`s not racist, but the problem is you have people that look at him, and if you go on Instagram and you hashtag this, N.I.G.G.A., all these pictures come up of these young white boys, that think it`s cool to hashtag this N word. And that`s the problem, those young boys that aren`t racist.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: One at a time. Whoa! Sam.

SCHACHER: OK. Hold on. OK. So, yes, Vanessa, I agree with you. And that`s why I`m so glad that finally -- because, Justin Bieber has been known to not really take ownership right from the get go. I`m really happy that he took ownerships accountability and said this is not OK for all the young people out there. I`m embarrassed. I apologize and do not want to continue on with this ignorance. So, I want to give him credit where credit`s du, just saying.

PINSKY: Well, that just -- Miss Ali is sighing there. But Erica, I want to give you a chance here. What was just did you want to say?

AMERICA: Yes. I just wanted to say, you know, it`s always nice having, Miss Ali, on the show. But I don`t agree with that every white person uses the N word. I will not say it. I will not laugh at a joke with it. I don`t think it`s -- I don`t like the young.

ALI: I didn`t say every white person use this.

AMERICA: OK. I`m sorry.

ALI: I said every white person has heard the N word joke.

PINSKY: Miss Ali, hang on.

AMERICA: I wouldn`t laugh, though.

PINSKY: Miss Ali. I want to say something here, Miss Ali, because you got always -- you got to straighten me out. I get confused about these things. I love Richard Pryor. I think the guy -- his comedy withstands time. I think he`s a modern poet. I think he`s a genius. He used the N word a lot, and should I laugh at that or not?

ALI: You all been laughing at it.

PINSKY: No. But should I? What`s the right thing to do from Miss Ali`s point of view?

ALI: Yeah, that`s funny, that`s humor.

PINSKY: OK.

ALI: Like I`ve said, we`ve been the brunt of these jokes for over 400 years. It`s not going to stop now. You all are no going to stop every white person in America from using the N word. You just not going to do that. That`s ridiculous.

BARNETT: I said, you can laugh at it but I don`t think he should go around repeating it.

ALI: That`s not what I`m saying.

AMERICA: He knows better over that. BARNETT: Exactly. But that`s a big difference.

SCHACHER: That`s right.

BARNETT: That`s the difference.

PINSKY: Well, I`m not a 15-year-old either. Who the heck knows at 15? So, all right, thank you, everybody.

Gwyneth Paltrow, Charlize Theron in the next story. They are slammed for their controversial comments. I think free speech is under assault. I`ll tell you what I mean when we get back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charlize Theron is making a bold comparison. She says, the press intruding into our personal life is like being raped.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gwyneth Paltrow is getting slammed about how she described people being mean to her online. She said in an interview, quote, it`s almost like how a war you go through this bloody dehumanizing thing.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry, no.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They serve soviet people like Gwyneth Paltrow can say the things that she did freely.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gwyneth, please stop talking.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam. Now, Gwyneth Paltrow, and Charlize Theron, both say -- this is regarding negative comments they have received on social media. It seems like going through war or being raped. Vanessa and Erica are back with us, and joining us, comedian April Macie, check out her tour date, @Aprilishilarious.com. Now, most of our Twitter followers say get over it, internet trolls come with the territory of being a star. April, what do you say?

APRIL MACIE: I just don`t understand why anyone lends any credibility to what an actress has to say. She`s not America`s leading mind.

PINSKY: Well, how about a comedian? We had a comedian -- I thought the comedians all the time, they are pretty smart.

MACIE: We`re smart and witty but you shouldn`t take any credibility in what I have just said either. And this is a woman who spends more on a burking bag, and then (inaudible) soldier makes an entire year, like, she`s never been to a war. She`s never been in fatigues in Afghanistan 130 degree heat. Like, who cares of Gwyneth`s Paltrow has to say. She hasn`t been relevant in years.

PINSKY: Erica.

AMERICA: That`s really (inaudible), or the prison in the video like no. So, yeah, I think, everyone is entitled to their opinion about what it feels like to be scrutinized in the media, and only those people on that level understand it. However, the comparison she may suppose of being on warfare and rape, that`s like apples and oranges. Those two things are potentially, if not, definitely traumatizing experiences on a very deep spiritual level and I see what they`re saying. That they feel invaded but I think they need to be sensitive with their words. And I`m surprized because they both seem like somewhat intelligence women but I think they just kind of.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Free speech under attack here -- people are not allowed -- we have word police and.

AMERICA: Rape, though?

PINSKY: Rape, that`s how they felt. That`s how (inaudible) felt. She`s not making a joke. What, Sam?

BARNETT: She just needs to use better words. I`m sorry, Sam.

SCHACHER: Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think it`s poor choice of words, poor comparison.

PINSKY: Sam, you had an experience about a week ago. Did it not feel like being raped? Did it not feel so terrible?

SCHACHER: No. It`s not the feeling of being rape. Yes, it felt terrible. How could you compare the two? And I did have an experience, and I was attacked on Twitter. Oh, well, big word, nobody wants to hear me complain. So, I would never even do that comparison. And the thing with Gwyneth Paltrow, is I`m not gonna give Charlize Theron a free pass. I haven`t heard her say asinine statement.

PINSKY: You like her better.

SCHACHER: Well, no, Gwyneth -- True. But when, Gwyneth Paltrow, this happens over and over, she compares her struggles to people with greater struggles. You were born with a silver spoon in your mouth. Now, you`re rich and famous. Stop complaining about your struggles on social media. Nobody cares.

BARNETT: And don`t have to click your mentions. You don`t have to click your mentions. You don`t have to see what people are saying about you. You cannot go to Twitter. You cannot go to Instagram and if you feel violated, say violated. Nobody needs your dramatic over the top rape and war victim. Choose your words wisely.

PINSKY: I agree. But, April, you get what I`m getting at here? I`m just concern -- I totally agree with you, guys. You`re not saying something I can disagree with, but the fact that free speech has to be attacked as opposed to advisedly changed, you know, in other words, to say, hey, maybe lay off the rape talk so much because it hurts people that may have been through something that`s far more serious than what you`ve been through as posed to we have to destroy these people.

MACIE: I just think they`re celebrities. It`s just people put so much credit into what they have to say. Like Gwyneth Paltrow wears sheer tops at the Oscars. Like her breasts look like they`ve been to battle. So, maybe she understands it a little more than the others.

PINSKY: All right, I`m going to go to another story, another internet backlash. It`s a Facebook post that everyone is talking about. And reminder, as far as it pertains, there it is. You`ll see what I`m talking about. As it pertains to Facebook, we`re nearing a milestone rather on Facebook. Please do not forget to like us on Facebook. There`s the Facebook address. Please do so. We`ll be right back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: I am back with Sam, Vanessa, Erica, and April. This picture has been passed around more than any other on social media today. Take a look.

SCHACHER: Oh my gosh.

PINSKY: At the bride with a baby pinned to her dress. I don`t know about pinned, but she attached her new born to her wedding gown, and then dragged the baby down the aisle. Nobody said a word until she posted the picture on Facebook. The bride then makes no apologies for turning her baby into an accessory. Vanessa, what do you say?

BARNETT: I`m sorry. I`m really having a hard time not laughing.

PINSKY: She says.

BARNETT: Because it`s absolutely ridiculous.

PINSKY: She says everything worked out fine and going to continue to be fine. (Inaudible) he`s awake and well secured on my train as I went down the aisle. A 1-month-old, everybody.

BARNETT: I get that. But obviously it`s a bad choice like but I will - - in defense of the bride, it is historically known that brides don`t make good decisions. We do all kinds of things. I can`t tell you the things I wanted to do at my wedding. I wanted a trapeze artist and I want his monkeys walking around. I don`t know, you`re just crazy but those people on the side you see looking at the baby and not doing anything, those are the people I blame.

(CROSSTALK)

BARNETT: It`s a baby.

SCHACHER: I`m going to piggyback your statement, because the thing that brides do when they walk down the aisle they want to wear something old, something borrowed, something blue, something new. Perhaps she took this too far and is literally wearing the new born baby.

PINSKY: April, help restore this insanity to this group, will you please?

MACIE: I think it`s fantastic. When I have a child, I`m going to make it pull a rick shot this is exciting.

PINSKY: A 1-month-old?

MACIE: Just add, maybe when they`re toddler age.

PINSKY: You`ll wait to -- schedule the marriage around when the kid is able to carry a rick shot. Erica, what do you say?

AMERICA: I mean, this is questionable, if now, you know, obviously a bad judgment. Obviously, you know, everybody on Facebook kind of just was really clear with how they felt. I don`t think that they`re going to abuse their child (inaudible).

PINSKY: No.

AMERICA: But, I think an extra set on eyes on these parents, you know, there are some questionable judgment, especially when they defended themselves and said we`ll do whatever we want. You know, completely it doesn`t matter what you say.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: I`ve never seen Vanessa laugh so much at something Erica just said just that, eyes on these parents, huh?

BARNETT: I think that`s a bit over the top. I think they`re fine parents. I think this was just a dumb move. I`m mad she ruined the Vera Wang gown than anything else.

SCHACHER: And you know what, you did it, too, Dr. Drew.

PINSKY: We have an Instagram. Check out our Instagram if you want to see what I did as an homage to this -- there it is. There`s Sam and I walking down the aisle. There we are.

SCHACHER: The least the baby could do is throw rice.

PINSKY: I`m just saying.

SCHACHER: I mean, come on.

PINSKY: Let me switch stories. Facebook is becoming a tool for police to catch criminals and this guy made it very easy. He hit a woman in the back of the head, stole her purse and her iPod. Next day, he sent the woman a friend request. The woman recognized the attacker because he posted photos which included his distinct neck tattoo on his Facebook page, a triangle on his neck. Go ahead, April, what do you say about this guy?

MACIE: I think he`s brilliant. If you`re going to steal, then go on Facebook and just start poking them the next day. How would they suspect it was you? If you have the courage to go on and add somebody, then you`re the kind of guy that doesn`t deserve to be caught.

PINSKY: Vanessa.

MACIE: That`s what I think.

BARNETT: It`s a clear place of keep your friends close, to your enemies closer. Like, if you`re going to jack somebody, you want to know where they are every moment of the day so you`re not near them. So, they don`t point you out in the crowd. You got to be tracking them on social networks so they don`t see you.

PINSKY: Erica, if you`re going to jack somebody?

AMERICA: Yeah, no, I`m just hoping that this was an accident because he had her phone that he accidentally hit friend request because that has to be the dumbest criminal ever. But in the history of criminals, we know a lot of them are not the smartest people. So, it kind of makes sense.

PINSKY: I think Erica has a story for us for accidentally hitting a friend request on somebody.

SCHACHER: Do tell.

AMERICA: It happened. Things like that happen. You like someone on Instagram, like a picture on Instagram on accident.

PINSKY: What do you say?

SCHACHER: Maybe. Yeah. I`m sure it happens all the time. Yeah, when you`re spying, is that what you`re saying? When I`m spying on people?

PINSKY: When one might spy. Not when you`re spying, Sam, when Erica is spying.

SCHACHER: Cyber stalking.

MACIE: I`ve done a lot of stalking in my day.

PINSKY: April, finish up here.

MACIE: I was just going to say, I`ve done a lot of stalking and I`ve hit add one too many times in my life.

PINSKY: All right. Thank you, guys. I`m still preoccupied by the Gwyneth Paltrow thing and the way people attack on social media for people express themselves. Let`s not be the word police and speech police. Let`s advise people when they step out of line, let`s not destroy them because of our feelings. DVR us right now then you can watch us any time. I think you know Forensic Files is the show that follows us and it starts right now.

END