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Dr. Drew
Little Girls Abused by Adoptive Parents; Man Kept Three Women Locked in House as Sex Slaves; Killer of Registered Sex Offender Supported on Social Media; A Deadly Collision With Tracy Morgan`s Limo Van; 33-Year-Old Male Impersonates A Young Man From Twilight
Aired June 12, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight -- little girls, naked, starved, and suffering. These parents say they were merely disciplining
their daughters.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s just unsettling. How can you really know who`s living next to you?
PINSKY: Plus --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deegan was arrested Friday on charges he kept three women locked in his house as sex slaves.
PINSKY: A house of horrors revealed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deegan would give the women cocaine in exchange for sex and house cleaning.
PINSKY: He posted the sex acts online. The behavior bureau is outraged.
Then, support for the killer of a child molester on social media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s the Facebook page where hundreds of people are coming together to rally around Jay Maynor; he`s the man accused of
shooting and killing Raymond Brooks, a convicted sex offender accused of molesting a child related to both Maynor and Brooks. Some folks on the
page are defending Maynor.
PINSKY: And now the girl he once abused speaks publicly without shame.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the first time in my life I do not feel scared. For the first time in my life I do not wake up feeling fear. I can
actually talk about it without the fear of someone hurting me.
PINSKY: Let`s get started.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY (on camera): Good evening, my co-host is Sam Schacher. And coming up, we have an online video, a graphic online video, of poor Tracy Morgan,
the comedian`s crash that has upset not just his famous friends, but many people, particularly also a family of people related to his friends that
were in the car with him.
SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Absolutely. One of the victims` daughters is outraged and she`s also taking to social media to start a petition.
PINSKY: We`ll get into that.
But first up, I have a mom and a dad, allegedly abused two of their daughters for years. Neighbors to told us some disturbing things about
this so we have got to learn more about it. We have exclusive information about what really happened when Child Protective Services showed up. Take
a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next door neighbor Lonnie Drake says his daughter baby sat for the Yorgs, who had four adopted children they once fostered.
LONNY DRAKE, NEIGHBOR OF ACCUSED CHILD ABUSERS: We never saw the older girls. We always saw the two little ones.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I have exclusively Jody Brackett; she is a neighbor of this family. Did this family seem peculiar to you?
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
VOICE OF JODY BRACKET, NEIGHBOR OF ACCUSED CHILD ABUSERS: Well, you know, a little bit.
DRAKE: If we would have known anything like this was going on, we would have done something about it. But, you know, they say they adopted the
girls years ago. I remember seeing the girls one time probably in the last two or three years. And that`s the only time I`ve ever seen the two older
girls.
BRACKETT: The two young girls that we saw, they were fine.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
PINSKY: Bring in the behavior bureau. Anahita Sedaghatfar from AnahitaLaw.com; Evy Poumpouras, former special agent with the Secret
Service, and Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "Tomboys Podcast" on Blog Talk Radio.
And we know the parents called a behavioral agency, so-called, to complain the girls were being disobedient. We assume that`s the agency that was
involved in the adoption or something. The agency heard these sort of peculiar complaints, so they wisely, using their good judgment, called
Child Protective Services. At first, the parents pretended not to be hope so CPS called the home and were asked by the parents to make an
appointment. That, of course, was a red flag to CPS. It prompted them to return. And when they came back, they came back and they brought the police
with them. Anahita?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Dr. Drew, I truly believe that these parents didn`t know what they were doing was wrong, because like you said, they
called this agency --
PINSKY: Is that a defense?
SEDAGHATFAR: No, it`s not a defense. I`m not defending them. I think this is going to end up in some type of plea deal. But they reported the
abuse, they didn`t even try to hide the abuse when the police came there. They admitted to everything. They never tried to deny it. And I think in
their sick minds they really thought they were just disciplining their kids. But, I`m sorry, this is not discipline.
PINSKY: This is not. This is abuse. This is abuse. And people, Evy, are confused about the distinction. Last night, we talked about the
distinction between abuse and discipline, also between religious and spiritual life and hyperreligiosity where religious is used abusively on
kids.
EVY POUMPOURAS, FORMER SPECIAL AGENT WITH SECRET SERVICE: Yes. I want to say one thing first, if you actually Google in a Google News search, the
words "abused adopted children" the results are chilling.
Now I want to bounce off of what Anahita just said. This is the thing. I do think they know what they did was wrong. This is why. First, they
wanted to make an appointment prior to CPS coming over. Secondly, of course they`re going to say this is what we did, because obviously when you
see these two girls and they`re malnourished and they`re going to be interviewed, they`re going to tell them the truth. So what the parents did
is very smart, which is what many criminal defenders do. They want to give their side of the story first. And what they did, they said these girls
steal, they lie, and we have to punish them.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: And Dr. Drew, what she`s talking about, when they said steal, these children were stealing food. And we`re
talking about malnourished --
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: A Mento.
PINSKY: One mentos during a lot car trip. Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: There`s no evidence here that they tried to hide any of the abuse from anyone, and we usually do see that when we know they`re trying
to lie to police.
PINSKY: (INAUDIBLE) says no.
SCHACHER: Hold on, Anahita. I --
SEDGHATFAR: Hold on, let me just on -- to touch on another thing that Evy just said, we always talk about the fact that these agencies always fail,
they drop the ball. Where were the people checking up? Where were the social workers? Where were the agencies checking on these kids? How are
they able to continue to adopt kids without somebody checking to make sure that their current kids were OK?
TWEEDEN: How about the neighbors? How do you not see these kids in the backyard?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: We got a lot to say. Let`s not attack the neighbors because there could be someone in any of our neighborhoods too, but if you talk to
neighbors (ph) you`ll get a sense of this.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: If my daughter said I babysat and that girl had to stay outside in the rain because she was being punished? You wouldn`t have a question?
PINSKY: Hold on, I want to talk to him. We`ll talk to the father of that child. And you`ll hear, it`s not quite the way it`s being presented. But
go ahead.
SCHACHER: I don`t buy the fact that these parents are -- I`m sorry, Anahita -- I don`t buy the fact that these parents are trying to say that
they had nothing, that they had -- that they didn`t think they were doing anything wrong. If that was the case, then they would not have dodged CPS
and they would not have -- they actually hid out another time when CPS came to the door. They pretended that they weren`t there. This is just part of
their sorry excuse so they can get themselves out of it.
PINSKY: And I want to remind people how egregious this stuff was. These kids were having to urinate in the yard in a coffee tin, basically. They
had to deal with their own excrement. They were being starved. They were being to required to walk on hot pavements for hours.
TWEEDEN: An 11-year-old was wearing a diaper.
PINSKY: They were demanding that they repeat biblical scriptures over and over in a way that was --
SEDGHATFAR: That`s another thing that shows me that maybe they really believed, in their sick minds, that what they were doing was right.
PINSKY: Maybe. All right, hold on. Here`s what we`re going to do. First of all, I`m going to bring some representative of the neighborhood in
because I don`t want to create more victims here. I want the neighbors to be able to tell us, because, listen, let`s learn from this, guys. It could
happen to any of us. It`s hard to know what`s going in people`s homes even when they`re right next door. Let`s what they have to say and let`s learn
from it.
Now, I also want to thank our viewers for the great response to our Facebook friend request last night. We`re in a competition. We`re getting
down to the wire. I need you to like us on our Facebook page. Please do that. Head right over there right now, like us, and see if DR. DREW ON
CALL can win this contest.
We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The mother apparently was the main perpetrator; put up sticky pads all over the house about what the punishments were the kids were going to
be subjected to.
JUDY HO, PSYCHOLOGIST: Obviously these parents are crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These parents are cowards. Hiding behind religious in order to discipline your children is the worst act I believe that a
parent can do.
ERICA AMERICA: People who are, like, super, super religious to the extreme, that`s almost a form of insanity.
HO: Ironically these parents actually took in these children because they were trying to remove them from another abusive home.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Ironically, indeed. I`m back with Sam, we`re talking about the family who allegedly abused these adopted children apparently unbeknownst
to the neighbors in a very cohesive, present community around these perpetrators I guess we call them. And they had no idea what was going on.
I want you to be a part of our show by tweeting us right now @drdrewhln #behaviorbureau. And we will address some of your tweets right live on the
air here.
Bring in the behavior bureau, Kirsten Haglund, former Miss America, founder of the Kirsten Haglund foundation. Evy Poumpouras still with me. And Wendy
Walsh, psychologist, author of the "30-day Love Detox."
Kirsten, these poor children came from abusive homes, OK? And we`re piling on these parents. Is there any way we can make sense in this in a way to
say maybe they needed a lot of structure and a lot of discipline and it got out of hand? Can we give them --
KIRSTEN HAGLUND, FORMER MISS AMERICA: What?
PINSKY: I`m just asking. Playing devil`s advocate. Is there any way to make sense of that this way?
HAGLUND: I mean, I don`t think so. No. Of course not. I mean, I for one am in favor of more strict or disciplined parenting rather than permissive
parenting, if you`re going do compare the two. But there`s no excuse for anything that happened in this home, of course.
And all the things, and one of the reasons why, is there`s such a thing as proportionality with disciplining children. There was none of that here.
As well as the fact there was no evidence -- and the parents, especially the father, when he was asked, if there was any evidence for the lying or
what those children actually stole, you know, which is what they were being punished for, there was no evidence of that.
PINSKY: Oh, Kirsten, hold on. How dare you? They once drove to Colorado and one of the children stole a mentos mint. That was the only thing could
come up with.
HAGLUND: It couldn`t have fallen out of a purse or something.
PINSKY: Of course. Of course.
HAGLUND: I mean, they`re completely delusional. There`s no excuse.
PINSKY: Wendy, let`s get your thoughts on this. The threshold for punishment and, you know, religion versus hyperreligiosity.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Dr. Drew, with all due, respect we need to stop using the word punishment and discipline here because this was neither
of those two things. This was torture. This was evil torture by people who were sociopaths. OK?
And let me tell the world a little bit about how you shape a young child`s behavior. You don`t do it with a negative consequences. You give positive
rewards to positive behaviors and you extinguish negative behaviors by ignoring them and not addressing them. It`s that simple.
PINSKY: Or, Wendy, to be fair, withdrawing a positive. Withdrawing a privilege. Withdrawing them from an environment.
WALSH: Take the iPad away.
PINSKY: Take the iPad away. It could be benefit to everybody. Sam?
SCHACHER: And not only did they physically abuse these children, horrifically. In fact, both of the girls` buttocks were like leather
because of the repeated beatings.
PINSKY: Yes, yes.
SCHACHER: But also they shamed them. They would shave their heads. They would make the 13-year-old go outside naked and live out there. The 11-
year-old, no clothes, strip her naked but had to wear a diaper. We see the psychological damage.
PINSKY: Sam, I`m glad you brought this up. Because now I`m bringing a neighbor into the mix here. His name is Lonnie Drake and we heard from him
in our tape earlier in the program.
Lonny, I know you`d like to speak on behalf of the neighborhood and respond to -- first of all, help anybody who might be watching out there how they
can learn from this experience and maybe if they see anything suspicious or if you saw anything suspicious or if there was nothing, nothing at all you
could have done.
LONNY DRAKE, NEIGHBOR OF ACCUSED ABUSIVE PARENTS (via telephone): Well, I would suggest the fact that we did -- you know, when we would -- I did
speak with the neighbor, Johann (ph), a couple times a day, I mean, a week, or a month. I mean, we saw him, as a community neighborhood, we saw him
and would talk with them.
We never, honestly, ever saw his wife. And we never saw the older two girls. I mean, I`ve lived here for two years and I`ve never seen the two
older girls.
PINSKY: Did anyone -- Lonny, let me ask you, did people in the neighborhood wonder or gossip or talk about this family? Or was there no
evidence of anything going on there?
DRAKE: There was never any evidence of anything going on. I mean, when I did speak with him -- when we first moved into the neighborhood two years
ago, you know, you have your normal conversation. You have your, "Hey, what do you do for a living?" He owns his own business. He does this. I
do this. And they have four children.
He -- he -- mentioned that the two older children, you know, were adopted and that they were adopting, or they were working on it or -- I`m not 100
percent sure, remember how it worked out. Again, this was two years ago -- about adoption with the two younger ones that are ages now six and seven, I
believe. But --
PINSKY: Did they look -- did the younger girls look malnourished? With the stuff we`re hearing about them being malnourished. Is that inaccurate?
DRAKE: Never -- never have they looked malnourished. They`d be outside playing. They would ride their bikes up and down from their driveway to my
driveway, turn around. They were always playing, laughing, joking.
But in the two years that I lived here, I never saw the two older ones. Because he had -- he had said to me that their mentality was not as your
normal -- at the time, this was two years ago -- 11 and 9-year-old, you know? So when -- when my daughter babysat for them -- both of my daughters
babysat for them. A year and a half ago, they -- they had -- you know, the oldest one, I believe, it was the 13-year-old was in trouble. They had
told my daughters -- I mean, this is the reality of what is really happening. They had told my daughters that she was in trouble and she had
to (inaudible). And then that was it. And my daughters were like --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Did they ever see -- your daughters didn`t see them putting them out in the rain or making them walk on hot concrete?
DRAKE: No then what happened was is just started raining that -- that -- like, shortly after they got there. And my daughters, you know, the didn`t
think anything of it. They were young and -- and -- and I didn`t know, you know, of it obviously at the time, either.
And so, they brought it to my attention when they got home. But she -- my daughter who is now 17 called and said, "Hey, it`s raining. We`re going to
bring them in," and at first they were like kind of reluctant. And then my daughter just stood up and said no, that`s wrong. We`re brining her in.
PINSKY: Oh, good.
DRAKE: So -- so my 17-year-old now -- at the time, so she would have been 16, 15, said, hey, no, this is wrong. So she understood that it was wrong.
PINSKY: Yeah.
DRAKE: But she didn`t think of anything else.
PINSKY: Right, she just thought it was a lapse of judgment on the parents` part. I understand.
Lonnie, thank you for joining us. I have to go. We`re going to take a quick break. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Timothy Deegan, accountant by day --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s a prominent neighborhood. It`s an upper class neighborhood.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Charges he kept three women locked in his house as sex slaves, investigators describe as a house of horrors.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He met them on a site called backpage.com.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Deegan would give the women cocaine in exchange for sex and house cleaning. They say he videotaped their sexual encounters,
streamed it on the internet and even prostituted them out to others.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and behavior bureau, Anahita, Leeann, and Wendy. That wealthy accountant is accused now of raping, drugging, and then
pimping three women whom he allegedly kept as sex slaves guess where, in his upscale Florida home. Victims said he would keep tabs on these women
around the clock with surveillance camera, as well as GPS devices.
Sam, you`ve seen this guy`s Facebook page.
SCHACHER: Yes. And I tell you what, you would never think that he was such a disgusting creep by looking at his Facebook page.
PINSKY: So there`s a disconnect.
SCHACHER: Absolute opposite. There`s -- there`s inspirational quotes about love, peace, harmony. If you see someone in pain, hug them. There
are pictures of him going to football games --
PINSKY: How do you make sense of this?
SCHACHER: -- him hanging out with a girl. I know! You would never know by looking at his Facebook page. It`s chilling.
PINSKY: Leanne -- these relationships, Leeann, started as sex for drugs. I mean, that -- you know, people do a lot of drugs do a lot of exchanging
sex for drugs.
TWEEDEN: Sure. I mean, obviously these women were probably drug addicts, so they took him up on that.
PINSKY: Well, right. And so, there`s nothing like -- it`s obviously not a good thing. But there`s nothing extraordinary about that except that at
some point this thing became violent and controlling and really sort of kidnapped them.
TWEEDEN: Well, when you`re locked into the room and you`re taking off doorknobs so the women cannot get out. And I also read in one of the
reports a woman actually tried to prosecute him because he filmed himself having sex with her and she was knocked out from the drugs.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He raped her.
TWEEDEN: Yes, but like while she was completely out.
PINSKY: Wait -- Anahita is saying no. The defense attorney says no?
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m saying no. I`m agreeing that he`s a creep and he`s a pervert. He probably is a drug addict. But something about this story
does not add up to me, Dr. Drew. These women were not kidnapped. They were prostitutes who he met on a sex website. They were not confined to
the house. In fact, they were free to come and go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anahita --
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: And that can be a little bit worse than a physical hold --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anahita --
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He took the door knocks off the doors. He did enslave them. He did imprison them. And on one of the videotapes she`s
passed out cold.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not a fact.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s on footage. It is a fact, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`ll tell you what the facts are.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: What are the facts?
SEDAGHATFAR: That same woman went back and lived with him again after she reportedly reported --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That doesn`t make it right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why didn`t she leave?
PINSKY: Hold on.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh my God, Anahita, really? You`re blaming the victim that got raped?
PINSKY: Ladies -- Wendy --
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: I think they were prostitutes and drug addicts.
PINSKY: Wendy, Wendy. Hold on second. Let`s you and I explain how it`s possible that somebody who`s being traumatized and even exploited or abused
may be sort of drawn back like a moth to a flame to a situation that`s really bad.
WALSH: You know, it reminds me of the terrible cycle that domestic violence abusers fall into.
PINSKY: Very similar.
WALSH: Abusers and victims. That they actually love and have an attachment to the person who is the perpetrator, who is the person who`s
hurting them.
PINSKY: And the trauma. And the trauma that they`re perpetrating.
WALSH: Yes. So I think it did begin as a sex for drugs, and now he took advantage. Because once you have an addict and you`re taking advantage of
their addiction, you have a lot of power and a lot of control.
And Anahita, you are a woman in the trenches, a girlfriend like all of us. So we should not call women prostitutes, OK? These are women. Let us not
--
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Some women make money as sex workers, OK? It`s a job.
PINSKY: OK, OK.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, there`s a difference between a man exploiting the weakness of these women who clearly were drug addicts and then being
charged with sex slavery. The point I`m trying to make is that the story doesn`t add up. These women could have left. There were multiple
opportunities for them to leave.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH (?): Oh, but you could say that about domestic violence.
SEDAGHATFAR: I think they stayed for the drugs. They were drug addicts, and he was feeding them the drugs that they wanted. I`m not slut shaming.
I`m stating the facts. They were prostitutes. They admit that they were prostitutes. They were advertising their services on a prostitution
website. I`m not defending what this guy did. But I`m saying we have to be very careful between exploiting somebody and calling somebody a
potential felon.
PINSKY: OK, Leanne, that`s what I see. I see a lot of drug addicts in their disease. Sex addicts and drug addicts and all getting crazy. And
you know, and things -- and things go bad. Things get bad when people are doing drugs. The cops were there 11 times in the last few months. I mean,
it was getting intense.
TWEEDEN: Right. And I do have a problem with him filming while a woman is completely knocked out naked that she saw the video online.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s crime.
TWEEDEN: That is a crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She did not consent.
TWEEDEN: Exactly. I mean, she`s completely -- I mean, who has fun having sex with somebody that`s asleep? Come on, people. You are a sick man.
PINSKY: All right. Here we go.
Let me just say that the one thing we learned from this -- and again, I always try to do these stories in a way that we can learn something from it
-- is that if you`ve been traumatized in your childhood -- you`ve heard me say this before -- you`ll be attracted to people and circumstances that end
up reenacting the traumas of the past. And you will compulsively return to it. If you have that kind of history, the way to undo that is with
treatment, the only way to do it.
We have a story later coming on about -- I think it`s coming up next, in fact -- a father who kills a perpetrator because of his daughter`s eternal,
how should we say this, the -- the -- she`s permanently changed because of that man`s depravity. And we`re going to talk about whether that`s
appropriate or not for him to engage in vigil anti justice.
Another reminder for you guys, please like us on Facebook. I`ve been chanting about it all night and last night. We`re in a contest. I think
you know that. We are here to win. Help us out.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Registered sex offender Raymond Brooks was living with his parents when he was shot and killed this weekend.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Now, even though he served his time, people are now rallying behind the shooter.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here`s the Facebook page where hundreds of people are coming together to rally around to Jay Maynor. He`s the man accused of
shooting and killing Raymond Brooks. A convicted sex offender accused of molesting a child related to both Maynor and Brooks. Some folks on the page
are defending Maynor.
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUSXM HOST: If I`m related to an 8-year-old and you molest her, let`s say you go to jail for 30 years, when you come out I`m going to
kill you.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, and Jason Ellis who is so eloquently expressed himself there, SiriusXM radio host. And, Leeann, is still with
us. This is our most tweeted story of the day. The 8-year-old sex abuse survivor whom is now an adult is speaking out about her father who is in
prison and charged with having murdered her abuser. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He`s kept it bottled in so long. He just couldn`t keep it bottled in no more. I was so, so young. I don`t remember when it
started. But when I finally told someone, I was 8. For the first time in my life, I do not feel scared. For the first time in my life, I do not wake up
feeling fear. I can actually talk about it without the fear of someone hurting me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: All right. The abuser we now know was this poor young woman`s step grandfather. Jason, your reaction.
ELLIS: I`m really happy for her. I like that there was -- seems like she can get on with her life. She seems very smart to be that young. I thought
that she wouldn`t understand the repercussions of what have happened to her as a child but to sleep better at night, just -- I know, I said it, when I
see it back on the screen, I do look crazy.
PINSKY: No, you don`t.
ELLIS: I don`t care. That`s what I stand for.
LEEANN TWEEDEN: You look like a father.
PINSKY: Yeah, you look like a dad who -- as you brought up last time you were on who understands what`s, you know, what`s at stake for people that
go through experiences like this. It looks to me like this young girl had been treated because you can sort of tell when people are good, at ease in
their own skin again. When somebody`s been that badly sexually abused, they`re shattered in terms of their ability to regulate emotion and
treatment does work for that but it does take a long time. Now, Sam, there`s a Facebook page supporting the shooter. That was the dad.
SCHACHER: Absolutely, supporting the dad. So, the Facebook page is called family, friends and supporters of John Maynor. They have nearly 1700 likes.
The site hopes to raise funds to pay for Maynor`s, $141,000 cash bail. Now, according to the Facebook page, he is an equipment operator with no means
to pay for his bill or his legal fees.
PINSKY: So, Anahita, let me go to you. I know you -- this day -- you have great concern about vigilante justice. Yes?
SEDAGHATFAR: I do. Yes.
PINSKY: So, you don`t think what he did was right. You`re maybe a little concerned about, Jason, and his aggression, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: Of course, because I`m a little bit concerned and can sympathize with this man. I mean, his little girl was molested for years. I
don`t step.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Sympathize? But it`s more than sympathy. It`s like.
SEDAGHATFAR: I can understand it.
PINSKY: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: But I can`t understand why he had that rage in him but we cannot go and condone vigilante justice, Dr. Drew. We can`t have people
taking the law into their own hands every time they feel justice wasn`t served or they were wrong because we would be living in an utter state of
chaos.
(CORSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: .he could be dead, too.
ELLIS: .a state of chaos already because 8-year-olds are being molested. Isn`t that chaos?
PINSKY: I have two murders next to the councelor. The attorney fro the murder says, he came in and released a statement to HLN, it reads in part,
quote, is he a hardworking and decent man. All men fear a day that they`re unable to protect their children. Mr. Maynor is no different in that
regard.
SCHACHER: Exactly.
PINSKY: Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes?
PINSKY: Are you going to defend this man?
SEDAGHATFAR: I would definitely defend him. I think he has a strong case for mitigation in terms of sentencing. Again, not knowing all the facts, I
don`t know if he`s going to get, you know, a not guilty verdict in this case. But again, there`s a sympathy factor and even just this Facebook page
and your other panellists demonstrate what potential jurors may think.
PINSKY: Anahita, would you have defended the perpetrator?
SEDAGHATFAR: I think everyone deserves a defense, Dr. Drew. You know that.
TWEEDEN: Indefensible. I`m sorry. That was a step grandfather. "A" related to the child, not -- it wasn`t blood but when you`re a grandfather, you`re
in that position where you`re a trusted family member who had access to a child.
PINSKY: That`s usually who does it.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: Hold on. Hold on. She was 8 years old when she came out and said it. She said she doesn`t remember when she started being molested, but she
was probably an infant. And you know what? The original charge against that man was sodomy and they took it off as the plea deal. You know, what`s
sodomy is? You`re doing that infant, you will be dead. You do that to my child, I will shoot you in the head.
PINSKY: Jason, Jason, what do you think? Hang on, Anahita. Jason.
ELLIS: So, I don`t wanna -- I already said what I had to say, this -- when you bring up the extra -- I mean, I didn`t remember until I was 40 who the
guy was that molested me. So, I didn`t know until I was about 26 that I`d been molested. I had to take a bunch of acid and they also recall it. Then,
at 40 I find out who it is, because my body can`t even handle knowing who it is. You did that to that girl in that fashion, I don`t need to be
related to the girl, I`ll kill him right now.
TWEEDEN: Exactly.
SCHACHER: Anahita, how is it possible for a defense attorney to get a sodomy charge removed in a plea deal? Is that common?
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not uncommon. I mean, this was definitely a negotiation between the prosecutor and defense. Maybe the prosecution thought that this
was their weakest claim. So, they were willing to drop it in exchange for a guilty plea. And I can understand that this guy basically just got a slap
on the wrist. People are outraged, and I know that sometimes our criminal justice system fails and people think it`s imperfect, but I`ve said this so
many times, Dr. Drew, we still have the best system in the world.
PINSKY: But it failed here. We`re back after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
RALPH BROOKS: It would be unbelievable, to hold animosity in your heart for 12 years.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ralph Brooks is an elderly Alabama man whose son Raymond a registered sex offender was shot dead this weekend. Twelve years after
Raymond pleaded guilty to molesting an 8-year-old, a child that are affiliate WBRC says was related to both Brooks and this man, Jay Maynor
who`s been charged with murder.
BROOKS: Next thing I heard was three shots.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three shots, that allegedly left Raymond Brooks dead, and left investigators trying to figure out if a crime from more than a
decade ago was the motive.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Jason, and Kirsten now joins us. Jay Maynor shot allegedly and killed the man who had sexually abused his young
daughter from the age of we don`t know how young to the age of 8. This man, Raymond Brooks, was the girl`s step granddaughter. He pleaded guilty to the
first degree sex abuse but served only 27 months of a 5-year sentence. Jason, you see his poor father there whom I feel bad for saying how can you
hold some hatred in this heart for ten years? Would it ever leave if that happened to someone you loved?
ELLIS: Molesting an 8-year-old, I mean, I have a child that grows up and molests an 8-year-old, I mean, I`m partly responsible for it but I`m also -
- you need to take full responsibility for what you`ve done. You need to be put away for life. I kind of blame the courts really. I don`t understand
how you molest an 8-year-old and get then you get out in a short period of time. Does the world realize how bad it is to molest a child?
PINSKY: I don`t think they really do, Jason. Kirsten, what say you?
HAGLUND: Obviously, there are so many things wrong and tragic about this case and there -- and I feel so much grief and compassion for this family.
But the hard truth is that repaying violence, because rape is an act of violence. It`s not about sex assault violence. So, repaying an act of
violence with violence is not going to solve anything. It`s not going to bring about any relief of pain. It`s not going to, you know, bring about
any healing for this family. And I think this just goes to show that trauma needs to be treated and, Dr. Drew, you made a great point that that young
woman seems like she had gotten treatment. The whole family needs treatment. That father needed to be a part of that process as well, and I
think that that`s something.
PINSKY: That`s a good point. That`s a very good point. That is a very good point.
SCHACHER: But now, that that predator is dead, now the daughter is coming forward, and believe me, I agree with you, but now that daughter`s coming
forward and saying that finally I can go to bed at night and feel safe. And -- but it doesn`t help, that now that her father is locked up and removed
from her life. So, it`s a vicious cycle. But I`m with you, Jason. I blame the courts here. For one, how could they dismiss the sodomy charge? That`s
insane to me. And number two.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s ask our attorney.
SCHACHER: Well, we did talk about that. But then, 27 months how to you give good behavior, Anahita? That`s a question to you. How often are these
predators, these paedophiles, being given -- and rapists being given -- being able to get out on 27 months when they had a 5-year sentence which is
a joke, too?
SEDAGHATFAR: Right. There are definitely problems with the criminal justice system. I think we can all concede that, but, Dr. Drew, let me just clarify
something for the viewers and perhaps something that, Leeann, might have mentioned on the last panel. There`s a big difference between something
being non-defensible in layman`s terms. OK, you can say there`s no way you can defend what this guy did. Of course. That`s a given. That`s a boring
debate, but in the legal sense, there`s something, a little thing called the constitution of the United States that says that everyone is entitled
to a defense. So, we have to understand the distinction between the two and that was the distinction I was trying to make.
PINSKY: But I think we got that distinction. But I think, Jason, and the Jasons of the world we saying that the fact that this could happen suggests
that there`s a miscarriage of justice somewhere. Go ahead, Jason.
ELLIS: I don`t understand why somebody would want to represent him. Like, OK, you`re going to get some extra money. Really? Go dig some holes if you
need money that bad.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Let me just say, let me just say, I remember once I was in an emergency room and a series of gang members had engaged in a drug deal that
went bad and it was several policemen and undercover agents, DEA agents were killed in this. And these two, frankly, animals were brought in. Most
people don`t really ever see humans that are in the condition these young adult males were in. They were vicious animals. And I thought -- I can`t
treat them. I can`t do it. But it was my job. Now, I fortunately didn`t have to do too much at the time. And now, my peers had to step in. There
were surgeons who had to step in. I stepped out, but I had real difficulty doing my job and Anahita`s point is that sometimes you just have to do the
job with the system we have. And let the system then work itself through. I don`t think it served this family well. I think a man is in jail now.
Hopefully he doesn`t go to prison. I hope there are mitigating circumstances that are considered extraordinary in this particular case. I
think we all agree, vigilante justice, we shouldn`t have to resort to that. Now, we`re going to come back right after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A deadly collision with the limo van carrying actor and comedian Tracy Morgan and his entourage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened so fast. And when it stopped, Tracy was on top of me. I didn`t see anyone else. Just metal and I could see the stars
from outside because the top was ripped open.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His big rig slammed into Morgan`s limo injuring four and killing comedian James McNair. Morgan remains in critical but stable
condition.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kevin Roper is being charged with one count of vehicular homicide. He`s additionally being charged with assault by auto.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. Now, many of our Twitter followers are calling this video, they`re calling it tragedy porn. Video TMZ bought and posted, shows
the crash scene just moments after the deadly wreck involving Tracy Morgan. Now, we`re electing not to show this out of respect for the victims and the
deceased and the injured, the families. We`re not going to show you this video. The daughter of one of the injured men is begging TMZ on Instagram
to take it down. She`s saying, quote, they don`t understand how hurtful it is to see my father being dragged out of the wreckage. No one should see my
father this way. Joining us to discuss, pop culture expert Carrie Keagan, Jason and Kirsten are still with us. Carrie, should TMZ take this video
down?
CARRIE KEAGAN, POP CULTURE EXPERT: I mean, it would be uncharacteristically classy for them to take this down, but they should out of the courtesy for
the family. They don`t have to put it up right away. I know that it`s not part of their business model to not put things up like this. But out of
respect for the family, yes, we`d love for them to take it down.
PINSKY: Something has happened here as a result of many celebrities coming to the aid of these, the injured in this accident. Louie C.K., you all know
Louie, tweeted the TMZ asking them to please remove the video. Would that back fire, it actually drove people to click on the link and watch the tape
and crash TMZ`s website. That was -- we do not want to contribute to this in anyway. Jason, what do we tell people to kind of back off?
ELLIS: Well, first of all, I just want to say, how come every girl you get on the show is super hot? I mean, what`s going on to you.
PINSKY: It`s for you, Jason.
ELLIS: Well, I appreciate it. Thank you so much. I think that -- I have famous friends and TMZ, those paparazzi people do some mean stuff and they
say some offensive things, but it`s the game. I think that the daughter saying, hey, can you guys take that down? Yes. You should take that down.
But is it not your job to report everything that has anything to do with famous people, even if it`s offensive? That`s what they do. I don`t expect
them to change just because -- they don`t care anybody died. It`s their business to exploit famous people. You got famous, this is your job.
Sometimes it`s not fair.
PINSKY: I think that`s what, Carrie, is saying, too. Kirsten, Jason raises an interesting question, which is if this had not involved celebrities,
somebody`s video would might be up there, and should not on TMZ, but videos online and no one would be coming to their aid.
HAGLUND: Right. I think that`s right. Interesting point about celebrities, they`re often dehumanized. The way that the paparazzi behave and harass
public figures and this is a great example is a way of dehumanizing people. And I think it speaks very poorly of our culture. But, you know, the other
thing here is that the culture feeds into that. You know, like if we weren`t watching that and reality TV plays into this, too. Like, in my
opinion, a lot of reality TV is tragedy porn, too, because you`re watching people self-destruct and destroy their relationships, destroy their lives
on TV and people love it. So, if we want to see this change, you know, we have to as viewers have a conversation like we`re having about how this is
not OK.
PINSKY: It is us.
(CROSSTALK)
HAGLUND: And we should celebrate Tracy Morgan for the work that they`ve done and wish them the very best and a speedy recovery.
SCHACHER: And you know what I`m really concerned about, too, is you know, having -- if this were to happen to one of my loved ones, first of all I
would be outraged because I would not want anybody to see, for instance, my dad being pulled out of that vehicle. Saying that makes me upset. But also,
being tempted to watch it and re-traumatize yourself. So, how is it for the family members that are watching it? Will they be re-traumatized by that?
PINSKY: Oh, my God. Of course.
SCHACHER: Is that enough for a case then?
PINSKY: I have to get Anahita back. I know you`d love that, but I don`t know. But I think -- I love Kirsten`s point, which is it`s not about the
people who took the video, it`s not about TMZ. It`s about us. It`s about us that consume it and watch it. We are the only ones who can change that. So,
think about it next time.
We`ll be right back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My daughter still believes he`s a movie star.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got on Facebook with her, they were communicating on Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I thought I would probably think straight, but once it comes down to it, it`s a harder decision than any parent thinks.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She met this man, 33-year-old David Lavera at this mobile home park in Newton where he was surrounded by young girls who
wanted his autograph because he claimed to be an actor from the "Twilight" movie series. He was brought on to the campus of two Newton schools where
he signed in with his real name as a guest of a student and parents at Berg Middle School, he walked around and signed autographs as a famous actor.
The superintendent says there were no red flags.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: No red flags. I`m back with Sam. Take a look at this, 33-year-old male on the left, impersonating the guy on the right, a young man from
"Twilight."
SCHACHER: There`s a red flag.
PINSKY: There is a red flag. He convinces a 14-year-old to get in his car. Her friend reported it thank God. The police caught up with him. Inside the
car they found strange things including two swords and five dagger like weapons. Carrie, Jason, Evy are back with us. Evy, your opinion on this
creep.
EVY POUMPOURAS, ON-AIR SECURITY AND INVESTIGATIVE ANALYST: Yeah, you`re dealing with a narcissistic predator who basically used social media, here
we go again, to entice a 14-year-old girl to basically engage her, to try to pick up 14-year-old girl, another victim. And do we not see recurring
theme on the show that we`re always doing? Is our victims are, what, children, sometimes elderly and young girls, women. It`s a consistent theme
that we always see.
SCHACHER: And, Evy, I just looked on his Facebook page. And guess what, as of recently he just added like 12 new friends and they`re all teenagers,
some of them in middle school. So, this is a total paedophile. He`s also a dumb ass, because when he went to the school impersonating this actor. Oh,
guess what, he signed in by his real name. How did the school not realize that? How was there no vetting process?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: He`s -- what`s that, Evy?
POUMPOURAS: That`s been brought up as far as the vetting process. This is the thing. How to you vet somebody like that? There is no vetting process.
SCHACHER: Look at the picture of the actor.
POUMPOURAS: Yeah. But no, he said after the fact, he went in using his real name. It wasn`t until he got there and all these girls were like, who are
you, then he started signing the real actor`s name. So, he did this in transition. There`s no way to vet somebody like this. You want a criminal
history check. If there`s nothing in the background, there`s nothing in the background. People could commit crimes and never get caught. That`s where
people get confused. So, you can`t really do a proper vetting process. Now, should this guy be coming into a school, a 33-year-old doing stunts, or
whatever the case may be?
PINSKY: I know, he came into the school, Carrie, came into the school and did two assemblies and as, Sam, said, you seemed to react with delight that
he seemed to be a dumb ass, too.
KEAGAN: Well, I mean, the scary thing is that we`re so obsessed with celebrity that obviously, anybody can do anything if they look sort of like
and nice enough. He can walk right in the door and convince all of these parents and all these teachers that he`s really somebody. And you know
what, maybe he didn`t have any ill intentions. It`s possible, maybe.
ELLIS: Yeah, right.
KEAGAN: Maybe. I mean.
POUMPOURAS: He had the knives, though, in the car. That`s the one thing. That`s a huge red flag, all those weapons in the vehicle. That could have
been a problem.
PINSKY: The real actor, the real actor from "Twilight" tweeted this, quote, I`m deeply saddened that there`s a person out there trying to impersonate
me and do harm to young girls. My heart goes out to the families and anyone else who has been deceived and hurt by his actions. But, Jason, Carrie is
on to something here, that our sort of desire to be -- to bask in the narcissistic glow is what`s that called, be around celebrity, they will
believe everybody`s a celebrity if they just say so.
ELLIS: I don`t really think that guy from that TV show or movie or whatever it is, is a celebrity but he should go to that school and actually sign
autographs, don`t put anybody in your car. And the other thing is, as a parent, even when I -- I wasn`t raised by anybody. That was an easy rule.
Don`t get in people`s cars even if it`s Brad Pitt or anybody. Don`t get in someone you don`t know`s car. Who gets in cars? Fourteen. You should know.
PINSKY: Jason, first of all, hear, hear. Evy, I`m running out of time. I have about 20 seconds. Go. Ten seconds.
POUMPOURAS: I just want to touch on this. Again, social media, again, parents, we keep talking about this, and you see here, this young girl now
even after the fact is saying, I still believe him. What`s the problem? And you see how a young child`s mind cannot determine sometimes the difference
between the reality and fiction.
PINSKY: There you go. Perfect. And again, we got to be more sophisticated about what we see and how we interpret social media. Speaking of social
media, I need you guys to help us out with our competition, like us on Facebook. DVR us right now, so you can watch us anytime. Forensic Files
begins right now.
END
