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Don Lemon Tonight

Crisis in Iraq: Obama to Send 275 Troops; U.S. Wins First World Cup Match; Clint Dempsey's Family Celebrates; How Did ISIS Take Over in Northern Iraq?

Aired June 16, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT, I'm Don Lemon.

Breaking news tonight in World Cup soccer tournament, which is a great unifier of the Gloria Borger. Also around the world, maybe even at your office, soccer fans are glued to their TV sets, rooting and howling for their teams. And, tonight, a big victory for team United States.

There's also breaking news in the great violent divider in the world, Sunni Islamic militants doing their very best to tear Iraq into pieces, dividing it into sectarian regions where hate would dominate. Militants from ISIS, the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, are on a murderous rampage across Iraq.

And, tonight, President Obama orders 275 American troops to support and secure the U.S. Embassy in Baghdad. We are going to have a full report for you coming right up here on CNN TONIGHT.

But first to the thrilling U.S. World Cup victory tonight, Vice President Joe Biden just a little while ago celebrating the team's win in the locker room. Captain Clint Dempsey helped the U.S. launch their World Cup run in record-breaking style, scoring 32 seconds into the game. In the second half, Ghana ties the game, and then the U.S. substitute John Brooks heads into the winner with just five minutes to go.

So joining me now is CNN's Lara Baldesarra. She's the host of "World Sport" on CNN International, who was at the game in Brazil, and Richard Roth, CNN senior international correspondent, just a few miles south of us, having a -- hanging out in Nevada Smiths, which is down in Greenwich Village. We will get to the Richard in just a second.

Lara, I want to go to you first.

I was on the air with you earlier. You were predicting Ghana would win. What do you have to say for yourself?

(LAUGHTER)

LARA BALDESARRA, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Don.

Yes, thank you very much for just cutting right to the chase there and rubbing that one in. I got the score line right. OK? I said 2-1. I just might have had the wrong team winning. But that was one heck of a game we saw from the USA. It was really just unbelievable, and I'm telling you, I just left the stadium right this moment and I was speaking to some of the players afterwards, and you can just see they are -- they are not only elated after this victory, but you can see that there's a huge sense of relief, because this really was a must- win game for these guys, and everybody in the stadium also knew that.

I would say, Don, that there was about 90 percent of the people inside that stadium were definitely American supporters. And, my goodness, did they ever make sure to let these guys out there know. They are the loudest, most energetic fans ever.

It was really incredible and I was speaking with Kyle Beckerman afterwards and he said that, yes, it actually gave him goose bumps as he was listening to the national anthem play and hearing all the fans and it was really special and it was really motivating having all of those fans behind him. It was really quite, quite the night.

LEMON: Hey, Lara, tell us more about talking to the team. That's quite an opportunity to get to do that.

BALDESARRA: Absolutely.

This was -- Ghana, it wasn't a pushover whatsoever. In fact, they were the slight favorites heading into this match. Now, and so for the USA to do this, USA, I would say they were pretty underrated heading into the World Cup. This was a big game because now they have to move on and they have to play Portugal and then they have to play Germany, two very difficult teams.

This win is not only three points, which helps them move out of the group stage, stay alive in the World Cup, but this is a win that also gives them necessary confidence and that the know-how that they can do it. And, plus, like you said, the first goal, 32 seconds in by the captain, Clint Dempsey, that wasn't just an incredibly fast goal.

There is the fifth fastest goal in World Cup history. That's incredible.

LEMON: Right.

BALDESARRA: And then in the second half, you have the dying moments of the game and this youngster, John Brooks, out of nowhere, the last person you would possibly be think would be scoring the game winner, he's a defender, scores with a header, and it sealed the victory. It was just -- this is a confidence-boosting, big win for the Americans.

LEMON: Don't ever underestimate the United States. And I'm glad you said that there were so many soccer fans in the stadium, because people think there's not that much support here. Many people do, but there actually is.

Richard -- Richard Roth -- excuse me -- you are a testament to that, because you are possibly at the soccer epicenter of New York City right now. What was the fan reaction like where you are? RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR U.N. CORRESPONDENT: Well, Don, imagine being

in a packed rush hour New York subway train with strangers. But then transfer that here inside soccer mecca, Nevada Smiths, in Manhattan, where everyone has a common theme, it seems, and goal.

All of these USA supporters packed in with 90 minutes of tension. That's what happened here, huge eruption on that Dempsey goal in the first minute. And then when John Brooks, a substitute off the bench, scored that second and winning goal, the crowd went nuts.

Afterwards, I asked some of these supporters, what do they feel about the match?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Amazing game. We played our hearts out. We played our hearts out. And it showed. We won.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're coming for the World Cup title. I told you all, man. We got injuries and we're still coming back, baby. USA. We're number one. We're number one! USA! USA! USA!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's team. Everybody's team, USA!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Everybody's team, USA, we got this. Portugal, you're next. Nothing on us. USA, baby!

(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

ROTH: Now, if you think San Antonio spurs got revenge over Miami last night, Don -- I hear you laughing -- just imagine what eight years of frustration for the United States with Ghana, because Ghana eliminated the USA in the last two World Cups.

So there was a little bit more at stake. There were some Ghanaians in the bar area here, everything good-natured and now let's see what the U.S. can do in the future -- Don.

LEMON: I'm laughing because I know when you let the microphone go like that, you just have to trust that it's going to come back. Richard Roth, thank you, joining us from the West Village. Lara as well, thank you very much for joining us.

Joining me now are Clint Dempsey's brother Lance and Lance's wife, Ashley.

You guys must be thrilled to death. After 32 seconds in the game and then he scores, what was that moment like for you?

LANCE DEMPSEY, BROTHER OF U.S. WORLD CUP PLAYER: It was amazing. We were screaming and yelling and then taking a breath and then just taking it all in. ASHLEY DEMPSEY, SISTER-IN-LAW OF U.S. WORLD CUP PLAYER: It was pretty

unreal.

LEMON: At one point in the match, Clint sustained what looked like potentially bad -- a potentially bad injury to his nose. That must have been a tough moment for you as well.

L. DEMPSEY: Oh, yes, I thought for sure he broke his nose, because I have broken mine before.

A. DEMPSEY: It was painful watching the slow-motion replays over and over again.

L. DEMPSEY: The slower they did it, the worse it looked.

LEMON: Yes.

Have you had a chance to talk to him since?

L. DEMPSEY: You know, I talked to my mom, and he's OK. Might have an issue breathing out of one side of his nostril, but I'm pretty sure it's broken;. But he will get it fixed and doctor definitely when he gets back tot States, but he's going to continue playing.

LEMON: And, Lance, I hear the baby in the background. This must be a family affair for you. You guys must be over the moon. I'm sure you're very proud.

L. DEMPSEY: Oh, yes.

A. DEMPSEY: We are. We have got lots of babies in this family and I think they're all celebrating tonight.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: There was one point after Ghana tied in the game that you were worried that the U.S. might not win. Were you worried about that?

L. DEMPSEY: It seemed kind of like we were on the defensive for a while. So I was worried. And then they had some chances, and then, sure enough, one of the chances went in.

And then it was just unbelievable how the newcomer, defender Brooks, how he came and scored the game-winning header, and I'm sure had a breakthrough tournament that he dreamed about. So, thank goodness for him.

And it was exciting to get redemption on Ghana from the past two World Cups.

LEMON: There is.

I said at the top of this newscast that the vice president was in the locker room to help -- to help team USA celebrate -- the U.S. team celebrate, and this is a picture of Clint in the locker room with the vice president. That's a big deal. L. DEMPSEY: Oh, yes.

A. DEMPSEY: It is a big deal. That's a pretty awesome, awesome privilege. And I think everything he's getting to do is pretty amazing. I think he proved that (INAUDIBLE) where he's at every time he gets on the field.

LEMON: And who is that little tyke in the background there?

A. DEMPSEY: That's his nephew, little Beckham Dempsey.

LEMON: Beckham Dempsey?

L. DEMPSEY: Oh, yes.

A. DEMPSEY: Yes.

LEMON: Named after who we think, right?

A. DEMPSEY: Well, we -- I have actually just thought the name was pretty awesome. I saw it on the nursery wall, and being a soccer name, my husband just happened to disagreed.

L. DEMPSEY: That was the name that convinced me.

A. DEMPSEY: It convinced him. He let me do it, so...

LEMON: All right.

A. DEMPSEY: He's got to be born for stardom with a name like that.

LEMON: So David Beckham was just a catalyst, but you just thought it was a right name, correct?

A. DEMPSEY: I know, I know.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, guys. Thank you very much, Lance Dempsey and Ashley Dempsey, the brother and sister-in-law of Clint Dempsey.

And congratulations to both of you.

You know, U.S. national team fans all over the country and around the world are celebrating tonight's dramatic victory.

So joining me tonight is Alex Morgan and Abby Wambach, U.S. women's national team soccer players and Olympic gold medalists. They watched the game in Hartford with the rest of their teammates. They have got big smiles on their faces. And also with us from Brazil is soccer writer Matt Negrin. He's the creator of awayandhome.com.

So, we're going to start with the U.S. women.

Matt, you're going to have to wait.

Abby, Alex, what a game. How do you feel watching the U.S. men battle through and ultimately winning?

ALEX MORGAN, U.S. WOMEN'S SOCCER PLAYER: Wow. What a game.

I mean, so many positives to take out of the game, and they started out well. You know, they responded well. And we were just so excited at the bar we were at with all of our teammates.

ABBY WAMBACH, U.S. WOMEN'S SOCCER PLAYER: Yes, we were going nuts. It was exciting. Obviously, getting that early goal it felt like we were hanging on for dear life the entire match, but, man, John Brooks, are you kidding me, 21 years old? Kid comes up and saves the Americans' life in this game? It's awesome.

LEMON: Yes. And, again, it's Ghana, because, Abby, a lot of people might not know this, but Ghana has actually been a huge nemesis for the U.S. Is this victory extra sweet considering Ghana knocked the U.S. out of the last two World Cups?

WAMBACH: Absolutely.

Obviously, we all know -- in the U.S. soccer world, we all know that Ghana has knocked us out the last two rounds. So getting this win, the three points, you know, it's a little sweeter against Ghana. But moving forward, we just want to keep securing points, so that we can get out of the group. That's the most important thing. And the way that Germany is playing, the game against Portugal, it gives us a great chance, getting these three points moving forward.

MORGAN: You have to remember the goal differential as well. I mean, the Portugal/Germany that we watched earlier today, that's huge for us to see that Portugal gave up so many goals.

LEMON: Yes.

Hey, so, Alex, which player would you say was the most instrumental in today's game? Was it John Brooks, was it Clint Dempsey or someone else?

MORGAN: I think it was all three subs that came off the bench. They lifted the energy of the team. John Brooks came in and did so well obviously with the header, but in the back as well. Obviously, he -- I think he had one mishap, but he recovered from it. In the back, Tim Howard played really well.

I think it overall was a great team effort. Obviously, there were some individuals that didn't play as well as we usually see them play, but I think there might be some adjustments moving forward. And, like I said before, there's a lot more positives to take out of this game.

LEMON: So, Abby, the women's soccer team had really a tremendous amount of success, including taking home the World Cup themselves in the past. But the men haven't quite yet reached that status, that height of success yet. Could this be the year for them, do you think?

WAMBACH: Well, I have them picked in our team -- in our team pool. I have them picked going all the way. (LAUGHTER)

WAMBACH: And I'm a firm believer that there's no greater time than the present to get things accomplished. And if you have that belief in yourself -- and I Jurgen has worked them pretty hard.

So, these guys are prepared. And, yes, it's not going to be easy, but it's possible. And I think that tonight kind of proves that, not only to themselves, but hopefully no their coaching staff moving forward, so that they can just keep this thing running forward in the right direction that they want it to go.

LEMON: OK, ladies, we unfortunately have got to get Matt in here, so stand by.

(LAUGHTER)

LEMON: Just kidding with you, Matt.

Last week, the U.S. coach made headlines when he said that winning this World Cup is just not realistic. Do you think that he is rethinking that after tonight's victory?

MATT NEGRIN, AWAYANDHOME.COM: It's tough to say. It's really hard when you look at the road ahead for the U.S. men's team of how they can even get out of the group, let alone beating huge giants like the Netherlands or Brazil just to get to the final.

But, that said, I think there's a lot to be looked at when you see all these fans who were at the game. They were singing the anthem so loud. They were clearly getting to the players. That's the type of thing that changes the way you look at the World Cup when you actually see how the U.S. did.

And they didn't just win. They won in an incredibly dramatic fashion. So maybe they could get a little bit farther than was once thought. I don't know if they're going to get to the finals. I don't know if the coach thinks it's still possible, but this win was really important for them and for the fans, obviously. You saw those guys screaming and going crazy. You need that energy 24/7 for the next month.

LEMON: And way more U.S. fans in the stadium, correct?

NEGRIN: Yes. But, at the same time, that's also because we're a lot richer country and we bought more tickets than anyone else in the world to go to the World Cup.

LEMON: Right.

NEGRIN: So it's a little hard to measure it based on that. But it still means a lot that those fans are flying down to Brazil just to support a soccer team.

LEMON: Absolutely.

Alex and Abby, what's your message to the U.S. team? Morgan Just build on that confidence from today. Obviously, the

Germany/Portugal game, I think, gave them a little bit of confidence, and then coming out right of the gates and scoring, and then scoring in dramatic fashion, just building on that confidence.

WAMBACH: Yes, I would say probably just you have got to keep moving forward. You use everything you possibly can from the game before to learn about that next game, so you can go out and perform. Secure as many points as possible. Keep your players as healthy as possible. Recover.

You know, the first game is over with, so now you can't be nervous. Now it's about performance. Now it's about getting points, getting through the group, and at that point, anything's possible.

LEMON: Yes. They should have the nerves behind them. Let's hope so, fingers crossed.

Thank you very much, Abby Wambach, Alex Morgan, and also Matt Negrin. We appreciate all of you.

Up next, severe storms strike Nebraska, including rare double tornadoes.

And the bloody insurgency by militants in Iraq -- President Obama orders U.S. troops to protect the American Embassy in Baghdad.

We're back in a moment.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Severe weather tonight in the nation's heartland. I want you to take a look at this amazing video. It's of rare and dangerous twin tornadoes touching down in northeast Nebraska.

And so far, one person has been killed. More than a dozen people are hurt. First-responders are still digging through damaged structures looking for more victims. The damage is far from over. The forecast is for more tornadoes overnight. We will keep you updated on that.

We want to get now to our other breaking news here, and we're talking about Iraq. President Barack Obama orders 275 troops to Baghdad to help support and secure the U.S. Embassy.

He met tonight with his national security team to weigh additional military options to help Iraq fight back against the bloody insurgency launched by Sunni militants.

Joining me now is or very own Anderson Cooper, the host, of course, of "A.C. 360." He's in Baghdad tonight as well, as CNN's Jim Acosta. He's our senior White House correspondent. He's in Washington.

Anderson, to you first.

The reports that ISIS extremists are advancing on the capital city, what's the atmosphere like in Baghdad tonight? ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, you know, it's Tuesday morning

here. Dawn is just breaking. The sun is just coming up and it's certainly yet another tense day in this nation's capital.

There are checkpoints all throughout this city. They have been now up throughout the last several days. Those checkpoints have been fortified, are more heavily manned than they were just several days ago, but very real questions about the Iraqi military, about -- and their capabilities to stop the advance of ISIS forces.

Just yesterday, on Monday, in the northwest of Iraq, in a city called Tal Afar, a city of some 200,000 Shia and Sunni Turkmen, ISIS was able to take that city, defeating Iraqi forces. Large numbers of civilians are said to have fled into the desert.

And, again, it's just another reminder of the failures that Iraqi military has had, even though they outnumber ISIS forces something like 100-1. Morale is low, and they have certainly since the fall of Mosul been unable to stop largely these ISIS forces from advancing.

LEMON: Anderson, if you can follow up on that, because I think that's a very good point, that the Iraqi troops outnumber the ISIS forces.

And yet can you really pin it all on just morale? Why don't they feel that they can stand unto the ISIS forces, when they outnumber them?

COOPER: Well, certainly, in an area like Mosul, which was the second largest city in Iraq, and that's what fell first, and that is what really caught sort of everybody, a lot of people by surprise, certainly shocked a lot of people within the government and Nouri al- Maliki here, they didn't think the Iraqi forces would fall that quickly and basically throw down their weapons, take off their uniforms, and just try to make a run for it.

That is a largely Sunni city. And Iraqi forces are not particularly popular there, given just the history just in the last two years alone, let alone before that. So that was an area you could argue the Iraqi forces didn't feel that they could really hold on to, didn't feel it was worth holding on to, and thought it was better to just leave.

The areas closer around the capital here in Baghdad, the 50 miles that we have been talking about, which is where ISIS forces are on the outskirts, that would obviously be a lot tougher for ISIS forces to move on the city itself. These are -- these lines have been fortified just in the last couple days.

We have seen tens of thousands of volunteers, untrained civilians in many cases, volunteering, though, to fight, to bolster Iraqi military forces, to man checkpoints, to go to the front lines and try to take on ISIS. So there is a sense -- there's not a sense of sort of huge amounts of fear here in the capital. I think there was several days ago. But I think that's really kind of calmed down somewhat, as news reports have shown these large numbers of volunteers.

So, there's a greater sense of that -- that it going to be hard for ISIS forces to actually take the capital, but they could make inroads elsewhere in the country.

LEMON: And, Jim Acosta, the president said to be meeting with his national security team tonight. Is the meeting over? What are you hearing?

JIM ACOSTA, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Don, that meeting did wrap up about a couple hours ago.

We know that the president met with a whole slew of advisers, Don, and just looking at the list of participants, this is one of the largest national security meetings I have ever seen read out by this White House.

The vice president, he communicated in remotely from Brazil. He's down there watching the World Cup, but nearly every top national security and White House official you can think of, Secretary of State John Kerry, Eric Holder, the attorney general, the secretary of defense, Chuck Hagel, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs, the director of the CIA, the director of national intelligence, U.S. Ambassador to the U.N. Samantha Power, and so on.

These are the kinds of meetings, Don, where decisions are weighed and are made, but from what I'm told by a senior administration official, the president has not yet made a decision regarding a strike on those ISIS militants in Iraq. But we do understand that among the options on the table, they're talking about, yes, airstrikes, whether they be via warplanes or drones, also boosting the training that is done by U.S. forces of Iraqi security forces in that country.

And, as you know, earlier this evening, the president authorized the deployment -- or sent a letter to Congress saying that he authorized a deployment of 275 troops to Baghdad to secure the embassy there.

LEMON: OK. Jim Acosta, thank you very much, Jim at the White House, and of course Anderson Cooper. Anderson, stay safe. Jim, thanks again.

And, as we have said, the insurgency is being led by the radical Islamist group ISIS, which is shorthand for Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.

Pamela Brown takes a look at what's known about this extremely violent organization.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PAMELA BROWN, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Publicized beheadings, targeted assassinations, a group so barbaric, even al Qaeda thinks it's too radical, though some are calling its leader, Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, the new Osama bin Laden.

SETH JONES, SENIOR POLITICAL SCIENTIST, RAND CORPORATION: ISIS has been among the most violent of any jihadist groups we have seen in the last several decades. They do targeted assassination. They will line up people and shoot them on the street. BROWN: ISIS militants brutally taunt and execute Iraqi soldiers on

camera, then publicize the bloody videos on social media, a new low in wartime propaganda. These chilling photos posted on jihadist Web sites, but not independently verified by CNN, reportedly show mass executions, all part of a fund-raising, recruiting and advertising campaign to show the world just how violent ISIS really is.

JONES: This is an effort to demonstrate how dangerous these organizations are, at least in their own view, but it's also a way to get the message out, the message out about who they are, what their goals are, and ideally to attract individuals who may want to provide money to them, but also recruiters from North Africa or the West, including the United States or Europe.

BROWN: Many experts believe ISIS was born out of the Iraq war.

A counterterrorism official tells CNN, from 2005 to 2007, it became a major counterweight to the U.S. military in large swathes during the war.

JONES: This organization, ISIS, has from its very beginning used the war in Iraq and U.S. military forces on the ground, large numbers of them, as its principal source of recruitment, propaganda and resources to fight against the Iraqi government.

BROWN: Al-Baghdadi helped lead the group's resurgence in Syria, capitalizing on the civil war there. ISIS now controls crucial territory stretching from the Syrian city of Aleppo all the way to the outskirts of Baghdad.

Right now, ISIS is marching toward the capital itself, rapidly commandeering territory and overpowering U.S.-trained Iraqi troops. A counterterrorism official tells CNN its strategy is to dissolve the border between Iraq and Syria, creating one Islamic fundamentalist state.

BOB BAER, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: They have the potential to sow chaos through the Middle East. There are a lot of foreign fighters, even from Europe and the United States, fighting with ISIS.

BROWN: The group has grown to at least several thousand fighters, according to a U.S. official. The question is, who is going to stop them?

Pamela Brown, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, Pamela, thank you very much for that report.

Up next, we are going to take a look at how the situation inside Iraq has gotten so out of control and what may be needed to bring order back to that country.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: The question is in all of this, how did situation in Iraq

deteriorate to the point that Sunni militants now control large areas of northern Iraq?

I'm joined now by Bill Richardson. He's the former governor of New Mexico and former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations. Also Bill Kristol is the editor of the "Weekly Standard," and P.J. Crowley is a former assistant secretary of state for public affairs and a professor at George Washington University.

So hopefully, you guys can answer how did it get to this. P.J., to you first. The war in Iraq ended in December 2011. At that time Iraq was relatively calm, so how did we go from more or less a stable Iraq to the predicament that we're in now?

P.J. CROWLEY, FORMER ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR PUBLIC AFFAIRS: I think one of the key dynamics going on right now, particularly in the Sunni part of the country, is that, you know, Sunnis fear the Iraqi government dominated by Shia political elements more than they fear ISIS.

You know, in 2008, 2009, the Maliki government was handed an effective strategy through the Sons of Iraq, Iraqi -- the Sunni awakening in Iraq. You had a dynamic where the Sunnis were cooperating with the central government, Baghdad, in ways that it had not in many years.

Maliki, I think, has squandered, you know, that strategy and instead he's turned the institutions of state against the Sunni tribes, and now one of the reasons why ISIS has advanced, you know, so rapidly through Iraq is they've got a lot of sympathy on the ground.

LEMON: Bill Kristol, you say that if we do nothing that we're going to face a full-scale sectarian war. That it's going to be Syria on steroids. The president revealed that he's going to send forces to help provide security for the embassy, and then he's going to send another 100 or so more troops on standby. No combat troops on the ground. Is that enough?

BILL KRISTOL, EDITOR, "WEEKLY STANDARD": I'm afraid it won't be. Look, there are two reasons this happened. One, we got ought in 2011. We announced we were getting out before that, and we lost our leverage with the Maliki government. As P.J. says, when we had leverage we were able to pressure Maliki to be more inclusive. He wasn't. It made the Sunni parts of Iraq fertile hunting grounds, so to speak, for the terrorist group ISIS.

The other thing that happened is the Syrian civil war. This is the Syrian civil war morphing into Iraq. So those of us who argued for getting into Syria in 2011, everyone said, "Oh, no, it's very tough." It was and it will be very tough to get into Iraq. It's complicated.

Neither side was perfect, though there were really pro-western types in Syria in 2011; that in 2013 when the president said he wanted to go in after Assad used chemical weapons, some of us supported him. He backed off. It was too complicated. There were bad guys on both sides. Now we have 160,000 dead in Syria and Syria now exporting its chaos

and civil war and disaster into Iraq.

LEMON: But, Bill -- Bill...

KRISTOL: So we can stand aside and then we'll have an Iraqi civil war the next year.

LEMON: Here's the thing, though, the Maliki government wanted us to leave. It wasn't just the president saying we were going to pull out. Maliki wanted us to leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that's not...

LEMON: Hang on. My colleague here at CNN, Fareed Zakaria, says that that was partially because -- or mainly because they were being controlled by Iran. Iran did not want U.S. troops, and that was part of the deal, so Maliki went along with it.

KRISTOL: Right, this is called politics. Iran was pressuring Maliki not to let us leave there. We didn't -- the Obama administration was pretty happy to get out, so they didn't really contest Iran's attempt to pressure Maliki.

Now maybe we could haven't done anything about it. Maybe we had to leave. I don't believe that's the case. We have an awful lot of influence and pressure. Had and still have some on Iraq. We could have insisted on a residual force.

But again, the real disaster is the Syrian civil war. You asked P.J. in the beginning what changed? What changed from three years ago is 160,000 people dead in Syria and a Syrian civil war that is now metastasizing through the Middle East, and that is a horrible outcome, not just for the Middle East but for us. It means that you've got Iranian-backed terrorists on the one hand getting stronger and al Qaeda backed terrorists getting stronger.

LEMON: I love your take but I have to get the governor in here. Governor, what is your take on this, and I want to talk about your op- ed. But what do you think about this?

BILL RICHARDSON, FORMER GOVERNOR OF NEW MEXICO: Well, I think facts that are that we offered to keep a residual force in Iraq, and Maliki wouldn't give any legal protection to our troops. He didn't want us there.

We've spent a trillion dollars, 4,500 Americans have died there, yet Maliki refuses in any way to share power. He's fostered this sectarian violence. He's fired any kind of Sunni leadership. He has found a way to alienate the whole country.

So it's disintegrating and now we're in the very uncomfortable position of being allied with Iran and I think we need to talk to Iran, keep them out of any kind of military cooperation with us.

But I think the steps we are taking, for instance, protecting our embassy -- we don't want another Benghazi -- that's important. Training, that makes sense right now. Maybe training some of the remaining Iraqi Army that is disintegrating and finding a way to get a diplomatic solution. Find a way to force Maliki to share power, to end this sectarian effort of violence that are occurring there.

LEMON: Fair enough, Governor...

RICHARDSON: And find ways to...

LEMON: You're talking about diplomacy, but it seems that the country now has deteriorated in a way that diplomacy may not be the -- may not be what we can do right now. It may not be feasible.

Just want to quickly, before we go to break here, and I want to come back and talk to you. You wrote an op-ed in 2007, and it said "Why We Should Exit Iraq Now." Do you stand by that? Because some people are wondering if that was the wrong thing for us, withdrawing. Was that a mistake?

RICHARDSON: No, absolutely. I think it was a mistake to go in there. But I don't think you amplify that mistake by making mistakes now, and I don't think we're making mistakes now. I would not proceed with military air strikes until we find some diplomacy that enables or forces Maliki to end the sectarian violence. To unify the country, to share power. Otherwise, Iraq is going to disintegrate.

LEMON: OK, Governor, everyone hold that thought. We're going to be back on the other side of this break.

But just ahead, you know, it was called the Pottery Barn rule: you break it, you bought it. So what do we do next in Iraq?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Whether you supported the war in Iraq or the troop withdrawal or both, there's no doubt that the U.S. war effort had some lasting implications here. So we're back now with Bill Richardson, Bill Kristol and P.J. Crowley.

So it begs the question, P.J. Crowley, do we have an obligation to go in to try to make things better in Iraq?

CROWLEY: No and yes. Obviously, U.S. actions are based on U.S. interests. The fact that we gave Iraq eight years, a trillion dollars, as Bill Richardson said, you know, the lives of 4,000 soldiers, we've done what we could in Iraq.

But obviously, the dynamic, as Bill Kristol said, that you have now between Iraq and Syria -- does pose a significant national interest. I think we've got to do things on both sides of the border.

We've got to strengthen the Iraqi government. I think that probably means trying perhaps pushing Maliki out of power after eight years and opening up greater political space. And obviously I think that we have to do more to help the Syrian opposition.

But this is a challenge that's probably going to have to continue to unwind on both sides of the borders for several years.

LEMON: You know, Bill Kristol, the U.S. may end up coordinating with Iran, though not militarily. I mean, you say any coordination with Iran is a mistake. Why is that?

KRISTOL: I say any support for Iran is a mistake. If we end up supporting an Iranian-backed regime, Sunnis throughout the Middle East will lose all confidence in us. Iran is not a friend of ours. Iran is itself a sponsor of terror.

It's a disaster for the U.S. if ISIS dominates a huge swath of Syria and Iraq and uses it as a terror center. That should be stopped. It's a disaster for us if Iran, in effect, expands its sway by 200 or 300 miles. That should be stopped.

Is it easy to stop those two things at once? No. But is it in our interest to try? I think yes.

LEMON: You're one of the few people who believes -- one of the few who believes that boots on the ground will be necessary. Why? Is there a better option?

KRISTOL: Well, it would be nice if you could just do it with air strikes, but I think you need Special Forces in there to work with the Maliki government to get the Iranians out and to support the decent parts of the government and pressure, as P.J. says, the Maliki government to change, maybe pressure Maliki out of there. You can't do any of the diplomatic pressure that Bill Richardson talks about without a presence, and a presence has to be partly a military presence.

LEMON: Bill Richardson, you want to respond to that?

RICHARDSON: Well, I believe what we need to get Iran to do is let them commit some troops. Let them put some of their blood there.

Also let's find a way for Iran to pressure their guy, Maliki, the Shia, to share power.

And what should the U.S. do? I think send a high-level delegation, maybe the secretary of state, to talk to Maliki before it's too late, to set up a coalition government or to leave, or to leave as P.J. said. Because he has exacerbated the situation. We want to find ways also in Syria to help the opposition there, because this is -- I think this is a conflagration that is affecting the entire region.

LEMON: And P.J. Crowley, final question to you. Your own boss, Hillary Clinton, topping President Obama in the polls on just about every issue on foreign affairs. Sixty-three percent of Americans believe that she would do a good job, compared to only 40 percent for President Obama. And then on and on: She tops him on terrorism and just about nine major issues. What would you -- what would President Hillary Clinton do here, do you think?

CROWLEY: Well, a President Hillary Clinton will face a situation in January of 2017, and it will be different than it is today. I mean, she has talked a great deal about smart power, which is taking an integrated approach, you know, to challenges like this. Military pressure has a role; diplomacy has a role.

And also trying to find ways to -- you know, to strengthen the dynamic inside a country and try to find ways to have the -- Iraqi Sunnis share power. This is the only approach that's going to work. One dimension by itself will not work.

LEMON: Thank you very much. P.J. Crowley, Bill Richardson and Bill Kristol, I really appreciate your expertise on this.

And up next, the likely steps the U.S. may take right away to help stop the insurgents from tearing Iraq into pieces.

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LEMON: Welcome back. ISIS wreaking havoc on Iraq and leading the country into bloody chaos. I'm joined now by some folks who know a lot about it, retired Colonel Peter Mansoor. He is a former aide to General David Petraeus and author of "Baghdad at Sun Rise: A Brigadier Commander's War in Iraq."

Also with me is Jessica Lewis, a research director at the Institute for the Study of War. She was stationed in Iraq as an Army intelligence officer. And Joe Reeder is a former undersecretary of the Army. Again, thanks to all of you for coming on tonight.

Jessica Lewis, you first. You were Army intelligence officer in Iraq for three years. What can you tell our viewers about ISIS? Was the group born out of the Iraq war?

JESSICA LEWIS, FORMER ARMY INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Yes. This is the group that we used to call al Qaeda in Iraq. It had renamed itself the Islamic State of Iraq in 2006. And last year in April 2013, it expanded into the Islamic state of Iraq and al Sham, including an ambition to control Syria, as well.

LEMON: So people are wondering where did this new group pop up? It's really just al Qaeda?

LEWIS: This is the same AQI that we knew, and I do believe they regenerated the strength that we're seeing now, mostly in Iraq, and then transitioned that force into Syria.

LEMON: Were they there before we got there for the war?

LEWIS: Well, the leader, Zarqawi, was in Iraq before we got there. But the majority of the activity that we saw that made this group so famous was discharged -- discharged in the direction of the U.S. soldiers.

LEMON: So Colonel Mansoor, you were on the ground for the commander of the 1st brigade, the 1st Armored Division, the ready first combat team. Are you surprised about what is happening there right now?

PETER MANSOOR, FORMER AIDE TO GENERAL DAVID PETRAEUS: Well, and I was also there during the surge as executive officer to General David Petraeus. You know, after the surge we had significantly tamped down ethnosectarian violence in Iraq, and the person that brought it back, quite frankly, is Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki. He has succeeded, with his authoritarian and sectarian policies, to alienate large swaths of the Iraqi people, including most of the Sunnis.

So, no, I'm really not surprised, given what has transpired since the withdrawal of U.S. forces at the end of 2011.

LEMON: You were there for the beginning of the invasion and also for the surge, maybe you can tell us what options you heard, our Jim Acosta at the White House, maybe you did earlier in this broadcast, taking us about the president weighing some options. What do you think the president should do?

MANSOOR: Well, I think the president said the right thing on the south lawn of the White House last Friday when he said it's up to the Iraqis to come up with a more inclusive government that all Iraqis can support, and then U.S. military force can have some impact.

But absent that, we would just simply be taking sides in a civil war, and that's the last thing I think the American people want.

LEMON: Joe Reeder, what do you think? Do you agree with that?

JOE REEDER, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF THE ARMY: I do agree with that, and frankly, the one solution that I can see where we could declare victory and I think it would be valid and legitimate, is what we want Arab Iraq to look like, Don, is what Kurdistan looks like today.

And I'd put a wing up there. I'd probably put a battalion up there. I'd declare it a protectorate. You've got $10 billion of Turkish investment there. You've got all the Marriott Hilton moving in.

And in 2007 when Peter Mansoor was there, you had 200,000 Turkish soldiers lined up on the border, paranoid that Kurdistan was going to become a country. Now they're best friends. And that's a place where we can go.

Maliki has -- as Peter outlined eloquently -- he's had eight years, and he's managed -- he's mistreated the -- the Sunnis. They hated al Qaeda, and I think they're going hate ISIS, too. But right now, he's managed to bond Ba'athists, Sunnis and people who are absolute implacable enemies.

LEMON: You remember during the Iraq war when -- I think it was Colonel Colin Powell who said, you know, you break it, you bought it. Have we bought Iraq?

MANSOOR: Well, no, I don't think so. It's not up to us to save Maliki from his own worst tendencies. Like I said before, if it's a government worth supporting, then we should support it.

So -- but I think the regional context is important here. Turkey has been mentioned, but also Iran. Iran needs to be on board with whatever political solution the Iraqi elites come up with, because absent that, they will simply inject more violence into the conflict.

So in any sense that we talk to Iran, it should be about the political composition of a future Iraqi government and not necessarily about how are we going to militarily defeat ISIS. ISIS will self-destruct when the Sunnis decide to stop supporting it.

LEMON: That's going to have to be the last word. Thank you, everyone. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: This week's "CNN Hero" had her first child at 19. Now she's helping teen parents and their children get a shot at a better life.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was 17 when I was pregnant with my daughter and at 19 with my son.

You ready to get up? Ready to go to school?

Being labeled a teen mom, there are certain stigmas that you're lazy, you're going to end up on welfare and working the system. Everybody has their own opinion on what's going to be the most beneficial for you. Often it can feel like a downgrade from what you want to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: When a young person discovers a pregnancy, people stop talking to them about college. We saw that we could be that voice saying yes, you can go to college. This doesn't have to be the end of your life.

I knew from my own experience that college had transformed my life as a teen mom, so I wanted that same success for other young parents.

We're going to get the other room set up for the kids.

It becomes imperative for parenting students to have their band of cheerleaders behind them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I ended up getting my GPA up to 3.8, which I didn't even believe that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We offer trainings on various topics.

We're going to talk about balancing school and balancing your role as a parent.

The most important part of our program is the intense one-on-one mentoring from a caring individual from the community.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I won the College of Science dean's award.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm motivated by the potential that's out there that's untapped. I want to be able to help each and every one of them achieve their own success.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: That's it for us tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for watching. "AC 360" starts right now.