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Dr. Drew
Mom Blogger Kills 5-Year-Old with Salt?; Chilling 911 Call
Aired June 23, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST: Tonight, did this mom blogger kill her son with salt? The behavior bureau looks at new surveillance video from the
hospital.
Plus, a 16-year-old`s shocking 911 call.
SALZMAN: I`m calling about killing.
DISPATCHER: Who did you kill?
SALZMAN: My father.
PINSKY: Are trauma and abuse to blame for this violence? I`ll tell you.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening, everyone.
Samantha Shocker is my co-host.
And coming up, the hot felon frenzy. I know, Sam, this something you enjoy very much. We`re going to hear from him tonight.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: While he is cute and we`re also going to hear from his mom, too.
PINSKY: Oh, mommy, mommy. I`m sure she`s cute, too.
But, first, the woman known as Salt Mom is on suicide watch. She is the 26-year-old mommy blogger accused of having murdered her 5-year-old
son. She did so by pumping large amounts of salt, sodium chloride, dissolved in water probably through the child feeding tube.
Take a look at his.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A 5-year-old boy dies only days after being rushed to a hospital emergency room.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The 5-year-ld suffered from digestive problems and used a feeding tube.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Prosecutors say she put the sodium in her son`s stomach tube while he was in the New York hospital after having seizure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was constantly taking this young child into the hospital. 23 times during his first year of life supposedly.
SCHACHER: She used her Facebook accounts like journaling injury.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Please pray for my little prince. He has another bad ear infection. Poor baby boy.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She gained all kinds of sympathy through social media.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Headed to the doctor for the third time today.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She actually blogs. She blogs.
PINSKY: The fact that she was doing this for a specific personal gain, to get attention, is really what`s so distasteful about it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Michelle Fields, correspondent for PJ Media, Vanessa Barnett, social commentator, host of HipHollywood.com, and Loni
Coombs, author of "You`re Perfect And Other Lies Parents Tell".
Vanessa, the fact that she is suicidal made me think that perhaps she is, in fact, guilty. I had my doubts. But why would she want to kill
herself if she didn`t feel really guilty about this?
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: No doubt here, Dr. Drew. She`s absolutely guilty. She does these things to get attention, I don`t believe
anything she says. Especially the suicide watch, I just don`t believe it.
Now, we`re hearing that the police have surveillance video from the hospital, of her taking her young son, dragging him to the bathroom with
the feeding tube and a cup of liquid in her hand. Guilty.
PINSKY: But, Loni -- I know, you`re saying hmm, Sam.
But, Loni, hope the court is taking this into account. When I heard that, I said to myself, wait a minute. Everybody thinks she may have been
pouring salt through that cup. But I`ll tell you what perhaps even more disturbing, that cup may have been pure water, and she panicked realizing
what she had done and was trying to restore the child`s sodium balance by pouring a large amount of H20 into his system, which would restore his
sodium balance back towards normal.
But if you do that too rapidly, it causes swelling in the brain, as I`ve said. That`s what really can be a problem. When the brain swells,
comes up against the -- I`m going to give you a skull here. Uh-oh. Get this.
SCHACHER: Here we go.
PINSKY: The skull is a closed space. When a brain swells -- well, I`m not going to be able to open the skull tonight. When the brain swells,
it comes up against the bone and squashes. I have a suspicion that may be what happened here.
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, Dr. Drew, that`s an interesting theory, because, you know, she did continually ask the doctors when they`re
in the hospital, what are his sodium levels? What are his sodium levels? She specifically wanted that information.
But she didn`t take her son into the bathroom just once. She was doing it over and over and over again, even when the little boy couldn`t
even walk himself, she was dragging him in there.
And, Dr. Drew, what they found out his sodium levels just spiked so high, so quickly, they said there`s no medical explanation for this.
Somebody had to intervene and do something.
PINSKY: I think that`s a possibility. But what I heard also is that the kid seized every time he came out of the bathroom. And, again, your
sodiums don`t go up that high, that quickly when somebody is pouring salt in.
But it can drop quickly when you pour water on top. And that can cause seizure.
The warden says, though, in captivity, she has been calm and cooperative. She is in suicide watch, allegedly, because she`s received so
much attention in the press.
Michelle, I don`t buy that. I think she is just guilty.
MICHELLE FIELDS, PJ MEDIA: She is guilty. I mean, this woman is an awful person. She knew what she was doing. It`s not as if she`s crazy and
doesn`t understand right from wrong.
The fact that she called somebody and tried to get them to get rid of the evidence show that is she knows what she was doing. She knew that what
she was doing was wrong. The woman needs to put in prison. She needs to stay there for the rest of her life.
And I don`t care if she`s on suicide watch. Let her do whatever what she wants to do. Honestly, this world would be better off without her.
PINSKY: Loni?
COOMBS: Dr. Drew, another interesting thing is she did it apparently before she took him into the hospital. Once he was in the hospital, he
actually got a clearance. Democrat had come in and said he`s doing OK. He`s stabilizing. If everything continues, you`re going to be able to take
him home again.
That`s when she started taking him into the bathroom and give him this force-feeding. I don`t think it was water. I think it was sodium.
PINSKY: Samantha?
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, you`re being way too fair on this lady. She has a long-standing history of doing these habitual things to get attention,
outrageous things to get attention. And her son would have also constant earaches. Two of the kids that she used to babysit would have constant
earaches. And then --
PINSKY: But, Sam, I`m going to show you something else. Another parent has actually filed a complaint against her three years ago. Listen
to this.
The mom -- this is the complaint. The mom, meaning this woman we`re talking about tonight, Salt Mom, will slap him, the same child that`s now
dead, for no reason as hard as she can. He begins to cry and then she begins to love on him.
Samantha, come on now, it doesn`t get worse than that.
SCHACHER: Well, what are you saying that she has a mental illness? I think this is someone who is incredibly selfish and will do anything
possible to get attention.
PINSKY: Well, I`m saying she`s cruel and she`s self seeking at the same time. Bad combination.
SCHACHER: I have to dismiss the whole mental illness thing because of the very reason she tortured her son for so long, knew what she was doing,
as Michelle stated. The police found the search results in her computer what sodium would do to a child.
PINSKY: Sodium, you brought up mental illness. It wasn`t where I was going but I`m going to bring in a behavior bureau to see if Munchausen by
proxy. It rolls off the tongue. But it`s a devastating, as you see, potentially devastating problem. Munchausen by proxy.
We also have the neighbor of Salt Mom who will tell us firsthand what she observed about this woman.
And later, mug shot candy, so-called. Mug shot man candy, as you guys know him. But this clapping about it. We got an update on the so-called
hot felon. He speaks out and so does his mom after this.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She used social media to report Garnett`s medical crisis in the hospital.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The boy was alert and talking on the night of January 20th when friends visited him in Spears Hospital room. One friend
recalled the 5-year-old pleading with her, don`t leave me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam.
We`re talking about so-called Salt Mom. She is currently on suicide watch, having been isolated from other prisoners. She is under 24-hour
supervision.
Let`s bring in the behavior bureau, Judy Ho, clinical psychologist, professor of Pepperdine University, Erica America is psychotherapist and
Z100 Radio personality, and Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "Tomboy`s" podcast on the Blog Talk Radio.
Erica, it`s hard to understand --
ERICA AMERICA, Z100 RADIO: Yes.
PINSKY: -- for anybody. I`m sort of -- we`re kind of building the cause for Munchausen by proxy. But let`s not put a name on it just yet.
How could it be so gratifying for her to make her child sick, to talk about it in social media, so gratifying that she could sacrifice the health of
her own child? How could we understand?
AMERICA: Well, I believe that there`s a possibility that she accidentally overdosed the medicine. I think she was doing it to keep him
sick.
PINSKY: The medicine?
AMERICA: Yes. Not the medicine, the salt. Excuse me.
So, what I feel is she, if this is Munchausen by proxy, she is getting the attention. She wouldn`t want him to die because then it`s over.
That`s why she`s on suicide watch right now. Her entire life and her identity of being the mother of the sick boy is now over.
So, this is an insidious mental illness and I disagree with everybody saying she`s evil. She did this on purpose.
This is a mental illness. It doesn`t make it right that a young boy died at all. It`s horrible. But this is what the fact is. The reason she
called the neighbor to move it was because she was like, oh, my god, I`ve got to not give him any more salt because this is really bad.
PINSKY: I`ve gone too far.
Leeann -- Judy, I`m going to get you in a second and talk more about Munchausen, but, Judy -- Leeann, I see you rolling your eyes.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I mean, come on. If they just turn around and went away for a minute and came back and she was dead,
woops.
I mean, seriously, this woman killed her child and for selfish reasons. I mean, she wanted people to feel sorry for her. She wanted the
child -- if you read her history, she would watch other people`s children and sort of take them as her own.
And even the moms are like, hi, where are you? Give me my child back and she would refuse. I mean, for a couple of days she took another
woman`s child and she couldn`t find her. And then she would come back and be like, here you go. She would buy them diapers, she wouldn`t accept
money. Then she would post on MySpace, my me and my baby, the center of my life.
I mean, things that were completely insane. And then she got pregnant by this guy that was kind of a one-night stand and all of a sudden she was
like, you`re not the dad. Really?
PINSKY: OK, Judy. I have so many mixed feelings about this. On one hand, Munchausen by proxy is not like a thought disorder so much, it`s not
like schizophrenia or bipolar. It`s kind of a personality thing, is it not?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. So, the thing about Munchausen by proxy is that it is deliberately selfish. It is actually planned and
premeditated and manipulative at its core.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Right. So, it`s character logic. It`s character logic, right? It`s in the person`s personality makeup.
What underlies it? Is it trauma behind that? Are there specific antecedents?
HO: Most of the times there is trauma history in the individual whose suffer from Munchausen, but antecedents involve a lot of life stressor.
Some people will have their job taken away from them, have a divorce. They`re looking for a role to feel in life, something that makes them feel
important again and Munchausen applies to that. And sometimes, it`s the children, most often, it`s the children, sometimes it`s with their romantic
partner. Sometimes it`s with an older person, an elderly person they`re taking care of.
PINSKY: But in this case, it`s so, so heartbreaking, because it is the life of a child.
SCHACHER: Oh, it`s disgusting. I think this woman is an absolute evil person. I mean, why -- here is the question, Judy. Why hasn`t the
court or anybody ordered a psychiatric evaluation?
PINSKY: Oh, I`m sure they have.
SCHACHER: No, they have not. Is that evidence to where they believe she is not suffering from a mental illness?
HO: Well, here`s the thing, Sam. This is very hard to prove actually in a psych eval. They have a lot of problems using this as evidence. But
if they can find it as evidence it`s great for the prosecution because like I said, it`s a manipulative and also it`s preplanned. That`s helpful for
the prosecution.
PINSKY: I`ve got to tell you, I have dealt with this condition in my clinical practice. It is exhausting.
HO: Yes.
PINSKY: They will come to you. You don`t -- they suck you in, manipulate the caretakers in and then go you`re the best. Only you can
figure out what`s wrong with my baby. And then, when you start realizing what`s going on, they turn on you, I`m going to sue you. You`re terrible.
You don`t understand my child is so sick.
On the phone, I have one of Lacey`s friends. Her name is Autumn and we`re going to find out what Autumn actually observed of Lacey, the mom.
And, Autumn, Lacey would babysit for you before she ever even had kids. Did you have concerns?
AUTUMN HUNT, FRIEND OF LACEY SPEARS (via telephone): No, I didn`t have any at all.
PINSKY: By the way, thank you for joining us, Autumn. I really do appreciate it.
Lacey is now on suicide watch. Did you ever see her suicidal?
HUNT: No. I mean, she was a normal person. There was no red flags, nothing that would ever make me think, you know --
PINSKY: Do you have any theory about what happened here?
HUNT: I mean, I really don`t. I don`t know what happened. I don`t know. I would like to think that she did not do this but --
PINSKY: How about the evidence that Leeann brought up, that she would take other people`s children and start getting on social media and talking
about how her life was consumed with these kids that aren`t even her own and sort of call them her own?
HUNT: I only know about my child personally. I don`t low of other people, I just heard things through other media outlets and other people.
But my -- I personally thought that we were close. We were -- everyone thought we were sisters. So, it was basically like my child was her
nephew.
PINSKY: Leeann, do you have a question?
TWEEDEN: Yes, Autumn, hi. How long did you know her?
HUNT: I`ve known her for about 11 years.
PINSKY: And, Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes. And, Autumn, some people claim that they have witnessed her hit her son or was really mean to him. Did you ever witness
anything like that?
HUNT: No, not at all.
PINSKY: OK. Listen, Autumn -- oh, Erica, go ahead, please.
AMERICA: Yes. And did anyone notice that it was a little bizarre how ill this boy was, that she kept bringing him back and back, and also at the
same time was blogging about it? Nobody thought anything of that?
HUNT: When he was born, I assumed that it was just -- she told me that he had acid reflux problems.
PINSKY: He had acid reflux?
HUNT: Issues with the milk. At first it was issue with his the milk. Then it turned into acid reflux, which is not that uncommon in children.
PINSKY: It`s also not that big of a deal. Why did he end up with a feeding tube then?
SCHACHER: Right.
HUNT: I honestly don`t know. We didn`t hang out as much when he had the feeding tube put in. So, I was not aware of all the circumstances
regarding that.
PINSKY: Judy?
HO: Autumn did, she have a lot of friends? Did she have a lot of people on her support network? What do you know about that?
HUNT: As far as when she was in New York, I saw the people on Facebook. When she was here, when I was friends with her, we were together
all the time.
HO: Virtual friends.
PINSKY: Yes.
OK. Autumn, thank you so much. Appreciate you joining us, helping us to understand this tragedy.
I will just remind people, this is another case in which social media friends are not real friends. It`s not a support network. When Judy
meant, did she have friends, did she people around her, she meant family, friends in the flesh.
TWEEDEN: I read that she was a loner.
PINSKY: Well, but the point is she lots of social media attention, that is a pseudo intimacy. That will not serve as a supportive network for
somebody that`s trying to raise a child or somebody with mental illness.
Next up, a teenager calls 911 and tells the dispatcher coldly, actually casually, "I killed my dad." We have the chilling call.
And later, attack at 70 miles an hour, a bus driver blindsided in the middle of the night. We will tell you how this one ended. It`s harrowing.
Look at that.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam.
A 16-year-old boy calls 911 and just calmly confesses, uh, I kill my dad. I have a warning for everybody. This tape is disturbing. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, 911 CALL)
DISPATCHER: 911. What are you reporting?
SALZMAN: I`m calling to confess to a killing.
DISPATCHER: Who did you kill?
SALZMAN: My father.
DISPATCHER: Where in the house is he?
SALZMAN: He`s outside in a container of sorts.
DISPATCHER: How did you kill him?
SALZMAN: Well, we both had been drinking some and there was a confrontation. I said something to him, told him to stop. He shoved me.
He hit me, but he shoved me and I just had a cane in my hand at the time.
I promise it wasn`t premeditated or anything, but I had been drinking and I just started swinging. You know, we had a conflicted childhood, you
know? A conflicted past and sort of the tipping point.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PISNKY: The teenager threw his body, the father`s body in the family`s compost bin and covered him with kitty litter to mask the odor.
He has been charged with second degree murder.
Let`s bring back, Vanessa, Erica and Leeann.
Twitter followers, Leeann, think he sounds coached. Are you troubled at all by his demeanor at all, Leeann?
TWEEDEN: I mean, first of all, I`m troubled that he`s telling a dispatcher. This is the first thing that he has on tape or on file of him
confessing, killing his father, like it wasn`t premeditated or anything. That`s so disturbing to me.
But what`s disturbing is that you just killed your father days ago and you`re so calm, but almost like devoid of any emotion. Not like, god, I
feel so bad I did it. It was an accident. I didn`t mean to, I`m so sorry.
PINSKY: Right.
TWEEDEN: It was just like trying to get himself out of what`s going to happen to him.
PINSKY: Of course, of course, Leeann goes on the negative on this one.
I`m just going to say, Erica, that`s disassociation. He is disassociated. And he is hinting towards us that he had a traumatic
childhood maybe at the hands of the dad.
AMERICA: Yes.
PINSKY: And the only time I`ve seen this patricide, you know, where a son kills a father, I`ve had patients hold a shotgun at their dad`s head
and the history on those dads is hideous in terms of what those dads did to those little boys, and I`m suspicious that may be the case here. After all
it`s only second-degree murder.
AMERICA: Yes. So, he is flat, removed, disassociated on this phone call. He does reference the past. Now, I`m thinking possible personality
disorder, possible abuse.
I think there`s something very interesting in this family dynamic going on. Number one, the way that the mother calls a search party instead
of calling the police, that`s a little odd. Second thing is, when she finds out that her own son has killed the husband, she doesn`t immediately
call 911. She has him call and say he did it, which makes me think like maybe the mother has a weird kind of hold over him, this power.
PINSKY: Well, the mom, by the way, may have also been aware that the dad was abusive to the son.
Sam --
TWEEDEN: She did do a missing person`s report. She did do that.
PINSKY: She did.
Sam, disassociation, does that make sense to you?
SCHACHER: Yes, it does make sense to me. But, Dr. Drew, I`m just not buying that. I`m with Leeann here.
Listen, this kid -- I was with you at first. I thought, OK, maybe this kid is acting out of vengeance because the father was abusive towards
him.
PINSKY: Doesn`t make it OK, by the way.
SCHACHER: No, of course not.
PINSKY: I`m just saying by way of explanation. Again, that`s kind of stuff that`s usually in the past.
SCHACHER: Right. But the police did a lot of digging. The police did some digging and they found no evidence whatsoever to find that there
was any sort of physical abuse. The family has come forward. His nieces, other family members saying it was quite the opposite, he was quite the
doting, loving and caring father.
So, I -- so now to see this kid be completely emotionless, no remorse, it`s almost like he`s psychotic.
PINSKY: Or he, no -- Vanessa, you`re going to be the deciding vote here. He could be maybe a psychopath.
SCHACHER: Yes.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: That he really doesn`t care and really doesn`t appreciate that dad`s existence.
BARNETT: I don`t believe. I think he`s cold. I think he`s callous.
PINSKY: Psychopath.
BARNETT: I think he`s detached. But I don`t think this was premeditated. I don`t think he set out to bash him in the head. I don`t
think --
PINSKY: Listen, no, no, no, I don`t think any of us say that. None of us are saying that. But what Sam is saying, some of us are saying maybe
he had a terrible childhood and had this range and disassociation. He blacked out, couldn`t control himself.
But Sam is suggesting that history is just not there. There`s no evidence of that and that Vanessa, maybe he is a psychopath, that he
doesn`t care.
BARNETT: We`re missing something big here. We`re not talking about the fact that they were drinking together. I think that`s a big issue
here. You have a 16-year-old who is not even legal --
PINSKY: With dad, drinking.
BARNETT: With his dad. So, you have that dynamic there. I don`t know if you drink with your dad when you have this contentious relationship
with him.
And on the flip side, we have to acknowledge the fact that drinking does play a part in this. Maybe there was a shoving match and he talks so
much about wanting to protect the mother and he was mad because the father was on the phone with the mother arguing and then on top of that, he only
confessed because the mother was going to do a quite pricey search for the father. There`s something there, something more there.
AMERICA: It doesn`t make sense.
PINSKY: But it does -- I`m going to go, I`m coming down with Sam all of sudden. If there is really no history there of domestic violence
against the child and, again, this sort of bizarre, kind of calculated thinking about a human life that, oh, I`ve got to tell you I killed
somebody because it might cost too much to go search for him, that is a bizarre alchemy.
TWEEDEN: He said mom and sister live with him in that house, you know what he did before he called, he said, mom, sister, you might want to down
the street because you don`t want to be here when they come get me and take me to jail.
PINSKY: Bizarre. There`s a bizarre quality --
AMERICA: Something is wrong with this family.
PINSKY: I agree. But I think, Sam, that may be something wrong with his brain and it may be psychopathy.
Next up, a reality TV start under arrest. What fueled an alleged domestic violence? There she is, a rampage -- a violent rampage.
And later, out of control man on meth attacks a bus driver. All caught on tape. We`ll show it to you in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Doctors are Hope Solo set to appear in court today to face domestic violence and assault charges. Kirkland police said a
man called 911, reporting a woman was assaulting someone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Solo was arrested in Seattle after allegedly assaulting her sister and 17-year-old nephew.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say Solo was intoxicated and upset when they arrived on scene.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Officers conclude that Solo was the aggressor and arrested her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Solo spent the weekend locked up after the allege incident early Saturday morning.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Her lawyer says she is not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Solo is the goalie for the Seattle Reign professional women`s soccer team but her sometimes troubled personal life
has gotten notice, too.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
DR. DREW PINSKY, DR. DREW ON CALL HOST: Back with Sam, Michelle and Loni, and I am joined by Loveline co-host Mike Catherwood. Breaking news
tonight, TMZ bombshell tonight, TMZ reports, TMZ sports is reporting Hope Solo attacked her 17-year-old nephew and that the attack of the nephew was
so vicious that that`s when he then pulled the gun on her. According to TMZ, Solo, left shortly after that altercation when she learned police had
been called but then returned and began attacking that young guy`s -- that teen`s mother, who is Solo`s sister. The teen allegedly began hitting Solo
with a broomstick in an attempt to break up that attack. Mike.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, LOVELINE CO-HOST: Yes?
PINSKY: Alcohol or substances?
Yeah, totally, yeah -- I mean, but there has been a lot to made (ph) about her personal life, I met Hope Solo, and she`s a giant bitch.
PINSKY: Seriously? I mean, what happened?
CATHERWOOD: I mean, literally and figuratively.
PINSKY: Like what happened?
CATHERWOOD: Like she was not nice, and also, she`s a giant person, and pure muscle. And so, I understand if she gotten a squabble, and someone
grabbing a broom and cracking her over the dome, I would probably grab something, too.
PINSKY: It`s interesting. I get to see the panel react to what you said there, and I got, Michelle, giving the ah? But I have, Loni, going
aha-aha. And so, Michelle, you first, what are you thinking?
MICHELLE FIELDS: Well, I think I don`t understand why you`re jumping to the conclusion that she has a substance abuse. If you look at her
history, she doesn`t have a substance abuse. It looks like she just had anger management issues. I mean, when she was on, Dancing with the Stars,
she had an altercation with her partner. She had an altercation 24 hours before her wedding. She has outbursts on Twitter. She has outbursts with
her teammates, her coach. So, it seems like anger management, I don`t know why you`re jumping to conclusions and saying she has a substance abuse
problem.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Well, because anger management abuse -- rocket fuelled anger management is alcohol is jet fuel to anger management.
CATHERWOOD: It`s just the two typically go hand in hand. IT`s not, you know, we`re not jumping into conclusion.
FIELDS: Where is the evidence for that? There is no evidence.
PINSKY: Samantha, any evidence?
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, DR. DREW ON CALL CO-HOST: Yeah. There is evidence in the police report. They mention -- it`s not to say that she has an abuse
problem, but she was heavily intoxicated that night. They also mention in the police report that she was the aggressor. She was the instigator.
Listen, we all have family drama, but you should never, ever, ever get physical in a fight. And I hate the fact that she`s taken a not guilty
plea. Own up.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Hold on. Why is (inaudible) not guilty but judging by all that nodding you`ve been doing, (inaudible) I think you`re putting her away.
LONI COOMBS, YOU`RE PERFECT AUTHOR: Well, look, everyone comes in and pleads not guilty at the very beginning, but it`s interesting. The judge
did put a condition on her release if she made bail that she had to stay away from alcohol. So, clearly, this is something that they decided was
somehow instigated or exacerbate by the alcohol. And I`ll tell you, if she has a smart attorney or smart PR person, they would get her into an alcohol
treatment center right away and say, hey, look, you know, they`ll blame it on the alcohol, whether that`s it or not and try to save her image here,
because this nephew is speaking up. He`s not gonna be one of these victims who stepped back and says, oh, no, nothing happened. Let`s brush it under
the rug. I mean, it sounds like he has gone into great detail about what happened. He`s taking his own culpability and saying she was the one that
was the aggressor.
PINSKY: And, Mike, if she was, what would you say, the judge -- she wants to get judge`s attention, she should be in treatment.
CATHERWOOD: Definitely. I mean, that would bode well for her, but can I point out how denigrating this is to women`s soccer? And that she is an
elite world-class player who played for the national team of our country and still build as Dancing with the Stars, star?
SCHACHER: Not Olympic gold medallist.
PINSKY: Right. Mike, what happened between you and she?
CATHERWOOD: Oh, no, I mean, nothing. It wasn`t like she, you know, smacked me around or anything. But I went to a filming of Dancing with the
Stars on the season that she was on. And she is just not a very -- I mean, she was a sterly person and I can certainly find people to back me up on
that. And, look, maybe she`s a great gal. I don`t really know her all that well. But she certainly didn`t display any nice behavior around me. And I -
- like I said, she`s a wall of muscle. She`s a very athletic person and very big. She`s like six-feet tall. I can easily understand how like an
assault from her can get out of hand.
PINSKY: Michelle, you still look disturbed by this. You didn`t know, Mike, was a big Dancing with the Stars celebrity, contestant, he was the
first to be number one in being kicked off the show, his season.
CATHERWOOD: I`m a terrible dancer.
FIELDS: Oh, OK, I did not know that.
CATHERWOOD: Yeah, no, I was on Dancing with the Stars. It was awesome. I wasn`t on very long. So, people didn`t know that, but I had sex with a
lot of girls while I was there. So, it all make sense to me.
PINSKY: Loni, straighten this out for us, please.
COOMBS: I think, Mike, has a good point here because it`s interesting. The nephew says, everytime she starts to beat him, he went for a gun. He
went for a broom. I mean, he was really afraid of this woman.
CATHERWOOD: That`s a lose/lose situation.
PINSKY: Hang on, Mike. I got to read the -- her attorney`s statement. He issued a statement that reads in part, quote, Hope is not guilty of any
crime. In fact, our investigation reveals that Hope was assaulted and injured. He alleged she was injured when she was struck by the broom
handle. But again, we`re hearing the broom handle was used to break up a fight between she and someone else. So, more to be revealed on this story.
And still to come tonight, we have what you guys call mug shot man candy. His mom calls him sweet. You guys -- what`s wrong with you ladies?
Come on. People are putting up real money, their own money to bail this felon, felon out of jail. And reminder, you can get behind the scenes
access backstage photos and our special after show which we post everyday. Really, our after show is very cool. We bring in our panelist. We have a
lively and unedited and unrestrained conversation, and you can please also like our Facebook page when you visit. We`re back in just a moment.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A guy jumped me while I`m trying to drive the bus! And we went in there, we`re in the median.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s late. The light`s off. Passengers sleeping. The bus was on I-10 near Tonopah until police say Maquel Morris runs to the
front. GPS says Morris jumped on the dash board and grabbed the wheel from the driver. They fight. A passenger in the front tries to pull Morris away.
The camera shows the bus veering off the highway, still at 70 miles an hour. They careen into the dirt before hitting something.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Can you imagine? I`m back with Sam, Michelle, Judy and Vanessa. More than half of the 46 passengers on board that bus have been
injured, some with broken bones. Some were severe. The police told -- the suspect told police someone on the bus was trying to kill him. Guess what,
later he tested positive for methamphetamine. And, Sam, he also allegedly made some bizarre Facebook post.
SCHACHER: Yeah. At the same time that the bus was traveling en route to Phoenix, his social media profile revealed this. OK. So, he writes,
quote, on the Greyhound, trying to make it home without dying. Then, Dr. Drew, there`s a second post soon after. It reads, quote, seems like people
want to kill me. Definitely paranoid.
PINSKY: You know, Michelle, you had the look of incredulity on your face the whole evening. What are your thoughts in this one?
FIELDS: Well, look, I -- you know, the guy is crazy but I think that his stupid girlfriend is partially to blame for this. They go, they do math
together then they get on the bus, she knows that he`s paranoid, that he`s crazy, that he thinks people are trying to kill him. Why do you get on a
bus packed with people, and put yourself in that position? I mean, why will she do it? Why did she even go on the bus with him, knowing that he was
crazy?
PINSKY: Vanessa, why?
VANESSA BARNETT: Well, first of all, I really do believe this girl thought she was doing the right thing. She contacted his mother, his mother
gave her the OK, the green light to go, and that`s it (inaudible) of the day -- he is a grown man, who made poor decisions, who is getting on that
bus with or without his girlfriend.
(CROSSTALK)
FIELDS: She`s hanging out with him. She`s encouraging him.
BARNETT: Encouraging, getting high with him. She`s doing a lot with him, but she`s not to blame.
FIELDS: Well, you have a responsibility in your community. You don`t hang around with people.
BARNETT: The girl on meth has the responsibility to stop the guy on meth.
PINSKY: Samantha, you know, the meth has some -- the most (inaudible) community, everyone knows that, right?
SCHACHER: I completely agree with, Vanessa, here. If this girl is also high on meth, who is she to be in the right frame of mind to make sure that
he is being the most responsible person he can? I don`t think she`s culpable. I think this guy is responsible. Of course, then go get
treatment.
PINSKY: Yes. If you knew anybody -- know somebody using meth that starts to get paranoid -- there`s an old (inaudible), speed kills. And I`ve
talked to one of the guys once it helped develop that (inaudible), but when they came up with that, they didn`t mean that people on speed get killed.
They mean people on speed kill. A passenger board the bus, talk to the suspect part of the accident. Take a look at this tape.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I had talked to him earlier in the evening. And he was having issues. He started crying. And I knew something was wrong. And
then he just started fighting with his girl and he jumped up, jumping on the bus driver and he said, I`m going to flip this bus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: The girlfriend apparently chased this guy down the interstate after the crash and had to convince him to go back to the scene. Judy, it`s
just meth, meth, meth.
JUDY HO, PH.D.: It is just meth, meth, meth. And not to mention when he did finally go back to the scene, everybody threw rocks at him. So,
they`re obviously.
PINSKY: By the way, the injured passengers on that bus.
HO: That`s right. They had to do something about it, right? But, you know, like you said, Dr. Drew, meth causes amphetamine psychoses,
especially in individual who already have a predisposition or an underlying mental illness, which I suspect this happening here.
PINSKY: You suspect it, but I`m going to tell you what, I`ve dealt with meth psychosis more than I care to think about, and many of those
people reconstitute that completely afterwards and had no previous mental illness. If you have a bipolar disorder, you`re prone toward mania, it
happens much more readily, and much more easily and gets much more intense. But meth damages brain, causes severe psychosis. Everyone likes the inside
of my brain now, someone who show you this really quickly. (Inaudible). This part, this limbic area gets quite damaged in the brain when people use
methamphetamine. And so, even when they come off, they are not the same afterwards. Their mood, their memories are off, and this is the kind of
stuff that people on meth do. It is the drug of violence. Next up, our hot felon. He is married. Sorry, ladies. There he is. Have a good look, but you
can`t have him. Reminder, you can find us any time, at Instagram @drdrewhln and again Facebook, the after show, and do like us there. And we`ll be
right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jeremy Meeks takes a good mugshot. But he is facing some serious charges, and a lot of time behind bars is convicted.
PINSKY: The Stockton police department posted his mugshot along with several others in a new campaign to deter crime in hopes of shaming these
criminals on social media. But instead -- instead of women taking the appropriate posture, they are having a slight different reaction. They`re
behaving more like school girl.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hot mug shot or hot mess? Model looks or model prisoner?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`m sorry. I couldn`t pay attention to what you were saying. I just got lost in his eyes.
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUSXM HOST: He had it easy. He had the high road. He could have been in a boy band.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
PINSKY: It`s our most tweeted about story of the day, the so-called hot felon, Jeremy Meeks. He is now speaking out. Sam, you have the most
guilty look on your face. Put her up next to me again.
SCHACHER: Excuse me?
PINSKY: You have a guilty look on your face. So, it`s you, and Lynn Berry, and Robin Meade. You guys are into this guy. I know it. I see it.
It`s all right. Don`t apologize.
SCHACHER: We can give credit where credit is due, Dr. Drew. That`s all we`re saying.
PINSKY: This guy was in a gang.
SCHACHER: Seven years ago. Seven years ago.
PINSKY: Let`s bring my panel in here. Mike, see what I`m talking about here? They want to make excuses for this guy at every turn just because
he`s got blue eyes.
CATHERWOOD: Drew, I`m appalled at you.
PINSKY: Why?
CATHERWOOD: You and I do the exact same thing, the same thing that all other men do. And once women do this, it`s like this big story. Every guy I
know is like, I would bang Casey Anthony. I don`t care.
SCHACHER: Double standard!
CATHERWOOD: I could watch, Sam, murder my parents in front of me and I`d still want to have sex with her right after. Good looking people -- I
told (inaudible) the other day on Loveline. I told (inaudible). Go kill my parents I don`t care, and it was like, good looking get away with anything
and people always bend over backwards to please good looking people. It should -- why do we draw the line with gender. All of the sudden the guys
are like, all upset because women like this guy. He`s good looking.
PINSKY: This clearly set, Mike, off here. Before we go on, I want to just explain what happened to him. He was arrested during a sweep of known
gang members by the police in Stockton, California. And they found a gun in his truck. Meek says this gun is for protection, not gang activity. He was
just on his way to work. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEREMY MEEKS: I`m not trying to go at anybody, but if I have to back someone up off me for my own safety, then that`s what that was for. Like
I`m not out there, trying to kill people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: See, Leann, our buddy, Jason Ellis, said this yesterday or last week. When he starts moving, when we see him out of the still picture,
it`s not going to be so pretty. You still like him?
LEEANN TWEEDEN: I didn`t like him in the first place, Dr. Drew. Not that I`m not saying he didn`t have a beautiful face or that he couldn`t be
a model. I can`t get past the point that he has been in jail for nine years. He`s a convicted felon. He`s a violent crime offender. I mean,
nothing about that is sexy to me. There are so many other beautiful men out there. Women, come on. And I think social media just gives them that
fantasy land where they can say something and it`s not really going to come true. It`s disgusting.
PINSKY: Erica, let`s split this vote.
ERICA AMERICA: Yeah. Leeann, I definitely agree with you on that one. OK. Yes. This picture caused such a sensation all week. Instagram,
Facebook, Twitter. Personally, not my cup of tea, I`m sorry. I don`t want the teardrop Lil` Wayne I killed someone kind of thing. That is not hot to
me at all. Just saying. But seriously, if he`s really trying to rehabilitate his life like his mother is saying where his life is about his
family and he`s married, that`s OK. Don`t carry an illegal weapon.
(CROSSTALK)
AMERICA: You have to be very vigilant.
PINSKY: Of course. The guy is a criminal. He`s maybe a drug addict, who knows. His mom trying to raise money for his million dollar bail, guys
got a record, million dollar bail. The goal on the website is $25,000 in three days, more than 200 people donated nearly $4,000. Sam, were you one
of them?
SCHACHER: Really, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Just asking.
SCHACHER: Just because I can appreciate a good-looking man -- and of course, in real life, I think that many attributes make somebody sexy, not
just their physical appearance.
TWEEDEN: Exactly.
SCHACHER: But because I can say, OK, he`s hot, all of a sudden I`m one of the people that funded this page?
CATHERWOOD: I`m totally with, Sam, on this.
PINSKY: Mike, back me up on this.
CATHERWOOD: No, I can`t back you up.
PINSKY: But, Sam, likes the dangerous guys.
CATHERWOOD: Oh, definitely. Sam is practically needing to change her underwear every time Jason Ellis is on the show. What I`m saying is, look,
why do you guys get so upset when women do this? Because, Dr. Drew.
SCHACHER: Oh, my gosh.
CATHERWOOD: If Erica, or Sam or Leann.
TWEEDEN: I think it`s disgusting, too.
CATHERWOOD: If they have their mugshot put out in public, there would be guys crawling over broken glass, throwing money at them to make sure
they got their bail.
TWEEDEN: But, Dr. Drew, what does it say about us as a society that this is the most tweeted story of the day?
AMERICA: I don`t get it.
TWEEDEN: What?
PINSKY: Hold it. I will answer that after the break and I will tell you something very important about the difference between men and women
that may make you think differently about what Mike just said. And also, we`ve been talking that on Facebook just now. Check out our page. We are
not raising money for bail there, but we do have an after show up, we have one from last week where we talk about this issue and hear from Jason Ellis
on this particular topic and it was quite enlightening. And also, we also have a new show up tonight. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ELLIS: You would actually have relationship with this guy.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Date him. I would not. He`s had like six felony charges.
ELLIS: What about when he gets out, then will you date him?
SCHACHER: No.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: That was a clip from our after show on this hot felon story. Again, you can watch all of our after shows exclusively on the Facebook
@drdrewhln page. I think when we started putting a map on the Hlntv.com as well. And again, please like that page if you haven`t done so already. And,
Leeann, to answer your question, this Jeremy Meeks story, I think media, it`s really about what`s wrong with media that we all direct our attention
to this and we`re covering it, let`s be fair. And I think it`s more of a commentary on what media is doing and all the differences and changes of
what media and news are. Social media is creating news now and it`s thing that is people want to chat about.
TWEEDEN: Yeah. But then people perpetuate it too by retweeting and commenting and sharing.
PINSKY: I understand but that makes it news, that`s a new thing. That`s a kind of a news. We think the news -- and it`s very important
what`s going on in Iraq right now, I hope everyone is reading The New York Times.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: Thank you. My husband is important in all of that. That`s more important than this stupid felon.
PINSKY: Well, but, people are interested in other stories as well. And these stories, the social media has tied this all together very tightly in
a way that what is gossipy becomes news and that`s what we`re in to right now. Sam, you`re saying yes?
SCHACHER: Yeah. I mean, if this story went viral -- this story. This mugshot went viral so quickly, 120,000 likes, like that on a fan Facebook
page. Then this go fund me page. So, it does say something about why we -- I get it, Leeann, but at the same time, I mean, that`s what everybody is
talking about right now.
PINSKY: Right. We`re trying to stay in what people are discussing in social media about. Now, Mike, I want to address what you said, when you
came at me for being surprised at me taking issue with these young ladies. Let me clarify this to a little bit further to use it to sort of educate.
Men, you`re right, Mike, we`re animals. And as men, we have seen something that arouses us with sexual imagery or otherwise, we have appetite and
drive attached to it. There`s arousal and drive, desire, appetite, and arousal, it all goes together for the male brain. They are never
disconnected. But in the female brain you can have arousal without desire or drive. So, they can go that guy is so hot and men, just that, and not do
anything about it. Mike, for you, that`s confusing.
CATHERWOOD: It is in a sense. I obviously understand, Dr. Drew. I`m not as deeply as you understand it. The difference is genetically,
biologically between men and women.
PINSKY: Yeah.
CATHERWOOD: But at the same time, I do think that the people who are so upset about gay males and women`s reaction to this young man`s mugshot,
I think we got to take a step back and acknowledge the fact that this happens all the time with really, really beautiful women.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: You`re right. I`ve got to break. Tonight, that`s it. We`re starting this after show. We`ll keep this conversation -- all of you in
here will keep this conversation going and Forensic Files starts next.
END
