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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Bergdahl in Outpatient in Texas; Aaron Hernandez Left Jail for Hospital Over Weekend; Civil Rights Museum; World Cup Update

Aired June 23, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Here's a question only Bowe Bergdahl can answer. But let's face it, a lot of people are asking it. After five years as the Taliban captive, weeks in the hospital, he is now an outpatient, yet he still has not seen his parents.

As far as we know, he has not even spoken to them yet, and it's got to get you wondering why. Did all his time in captivity change him that much, or is the same young man everyone knew just waiting to come out again?

Ed Lavandera is covering the process of reintegrating Bergdahl back into normal life. And he joins us live in Dallas, and then in Chicago is psychologist Joseph Troiani who's also a former Navy commander and teaches a course on survival, evasion, resistance, escape psychology, better known as SERE.

Ed, first to you, this notion that Sergeant Bergdahl is an outpatient, can you categorize that a little for me? Because I don't think that means he's jumping on the bus and heading off base.

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: No. No, if you remember, for the last nine days or so -- 10 days or so, Bergdahl had been inpatient. Basically he had a hospital room there at Brook Army Medical Center where he was going through the reintegration process.

He's still in Houston, part of Fort Sam Houston where the Brook Army Medical Center is there, but things are starting to slowly change for him. He's moved to another part of the complex there.

Army officials won't say much about what his current living conditions are like, but that he's slowly being introduced to more and more people as part of this reintegration process. He is still in Houston and still being treated.

BANFIELD: So, Joseph Troiani, maybe you can help me figure this out, because as far as I know, Sam Houston's got quarters for families with, you know, service members who are being treated. There's also a community center there, plenty of space. It's not a logistics issue for his family to be there.

Is there something to the notion that some POWs are different than other POWs in the way that they are held? JOSEPH TROIANI, FOUNDER, ADLER SCHOOL OF PROFESSIONAL PSYCHOLOGY:

Definitely, after being confined for five years, the reentry process is pretty difficult, and for some, it takes a little longer period of time when they feel they're ready. They want to be ready for when they meet their loved ones or families.

But I think the stage is being set, as you've mentioned, at Fort Sam Houston. They have the Fisher Houses there for families. They have a great community center where families and soldiers are able to socialize and have some time on their own.

So we might be getting closer to the point where he's going to meet mom and dad.

BANFIELD: Well, I get it. I'm think I'm just trying to get my head around -- look, I've never been held captive, I don't know, but I can only go on the experiences others before him.

And we've never seen this before. We've just never seen somebody going into the fourth week of finally being able to come home and not coming home, really home.

Is that -- is there a difference between being a POW where you have other mates who are captive with you to, say, somebody who's in sensory deprivation perhaps, because we've heard accounts that might be afoot here, and does that make sense, that he be this detached at this point from his own family?

TROIANI: More than likely, he is feeling detached. Remember, he was absent from his lifestyle and culture. Now he's coming back and being reintegrated.

The good news is they feel that he's physically and psychologically stable enough where he's able to transition to what we would remember to as traditional outpatient.

But I would also consider that at this point in time, because he has a history of walking away from his post or being absent, that he would be under military police escort or possibly even the Army's CID, which is the Army's version of NCIS with the Navy.

BANFIELD: I just need a quick answer on this one, sir, and I don't know if you know the answer, and I don't know if this is even a question that I should be asking, but it crosses my mind.

Is it possible at all that the military is holding that reunion over him until he cedes the kind of information they're looking for about what led to all of this, five years ago? Is that possible?

TROIANI: That could always be a possibility, but they keep emphasizing that they're letting him move at his own pace. And it could be their recommendation or what have you.

BANFIELD: It's good to have you. Thank you so much, Joseph Troiani, and Ed Lavandera, for your reporting on this.

By the way, five years, Ed has been on this story, and he's been terrific at every detail.

Thank you both. Appreciate it.

Former NFL star Aaron Hernandez facing first-degree murder charges, and we've just learned he actually spent part of the weekend out of the jail.

He was at a hospital, and if you want to know what it was that took him there, we'll have it for you after the break.

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BANFIELD: Former New England Patriots player Aaron Hernandez got to spend a little time away from the jail other the weekend. Probably not a fun visit. Certainly wasn't a court date. It was a short trip to the hospital. You will probably remember that he's facing first-degree murder charges in the deaths of three men.

Saturday afternoon, CNN's national correspondent Susan Candiotti broke a little news about some motive and she's joining me now. First, before we get to the motive on the crime, because that was neat and great digging, why was he in the hospital?

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't know exactly why because of privacy laws, HIPAA rules that you can't disclose things.

All we know is he spent less than an hour there and the sheriff tells me it had nothing to do with any kind of incident that happened at the jail.

He spent a short amount of time there, back in jail, that's it.

BANFIELD: Love to see the security detail on that for a first-degree murder defendant.

CANDIOTTI: You can imagine.

BANFIELD: You can imagine.

So now this issue about this -- as he sort of faces down these extraordinary charges, you've actually come up with what they've discovered might be the motive behind the crime.

CANDIOTTI: Exactly. New details emerging about that, a source tells me that it was something very trivial and something insignificant like prosecutors allege happen with that spilled drink in the double murder charges that are taking place in Boston.

They said the two nights before Lloyd's murder --

BANFIELD: Odin Lloyd.

CANDIOTTI: -- when he was in a nightclub --

Odin Lloyd.

BANFIELD: It's hard to keep track of the murders, by the way.

CANDIOTTI: Right. Exactly.

He -- Hernandez saw him talking to some people at the nightclub. Hernandez didn't like it. He got really agitated, and he's seen on video, angry.

Later that say night, they go to Hernandez's apartment, which is about 10 miles from his big house. Something happened there. He sees guns, Lloyd sees guns and ammunition that are stored at Hernandez's apartment.

And the source says something happened there, those two things combined, trivial matter that we would consider nothing, but enough to stir up Hernandez and allegedly cause him to murder Odin Lloyd.

BANFIELD: Of course these being the prosecutors with this allegations. And you don't even need a motive to get a murder conviction, but it always helps when you've got to somehow explain to a jury why this could have happened with a guy who, up and until now --

CANDIOTTI: That's right. You don't have to prove motive, and he has pleaded not guilty.

BANFIELD: The reason I said to you it's hard to keep track of the murders is because it is. There's been so much that's developed in the story, and the lovely and talented Susan Candiotti has decided to package the whole thing up.

So a fantastically good special, you don't want to miss it. It's called "DOWNWARD SPIRAL -- INSIDE THE CASE AGAINST AARON HERNANDEZ," and we've got it here on CNN at Tuesday at 9:00 p.m.

That's right, here, 9:00 p.m. Make sure you tune in. You just do a great job on this story, every time. You've always got the good before anybody else.

CANDIOTTI: Well, thanks. There's a lot of developments, that's for sure.

BANFIELD: Thank you for the piece, because I need to follow it. I lose track of it. Thank you, Susan Candiotti, live for us today.

CANDIOTTI: Thank you.

BANFIELD: Now to a story about an important grand opening, the new National Center for Civil and Human Rights, it opens to the public today, and inside, you can have an interactive experience about the fight for civil rights in America.

You can even hear the taunts that were hurled at segregated lunch counter protesters in the 1960s, harrowing, will make your hair stand up on end on your arms.

Going to take you inside, next.

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BANFIELD: Today, a new civil rights museum opened in Atlanta. It's a dream that took 10 years to become a reality and it recounts generations of struggle so that future generations can walk through the exhibits and get an idea of what that America was like, what it was really like. As the Reverend Jesse Jackson once said, "if a mind can conceive it and my heart can believe it, I know I can achieve it." Victor Blackwell takes us inside the monument to the civil rights achievement.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will use the same (INAUDIBLE) that we have used before.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Bull Connor and President Johnson --

LYNDON JOHNSON, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Their cause must be our cause too.

BLACKWELL: Together, part of a comprehensive look at America's fight for equality inside the national Center for Civil and Human Rights in Atlanta. The $80 million facility honors the well and lesser known stories and faces of the civil rights movement. One of them, Henry Thomas.

HENRY THOMAS, FREEDOM RIDER: I was immediately impressed.

BLACKWELL: Thomas was just 19 years old in this mug shot. He was a Freedom Rider during the summer of 1961, demonstrating for civil rights throughout the south. His is one of many covering the center's replica of the burned-out bus he traveled on.

THOMAS: There is a face now to those people who made that sacrifice 53 years ago. They're my heroes. I am proud of them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's over 40,000 persons already assembled on the grounds.

BLACKWELL: The center is filled with the images and sounds of the era and an interactive exhibit that mimics the taunting and kicking protesters endured during the lunch hour sit-ins.

Doug Shipman is the center's executive director.

DOUG SHIPMAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR CIVIL AND HUMAN RIGHTS: We want them to have a personal connection, no matter who they are, to both history and to present. We also want them to feel inspired that they can actually take a stand on whatever issue they want to.

BLACKWELL: The highlight is the King paper's collection. It's a rotating exhibit of some of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s personal writings on loan from his alma mater, Morehouse College.

SHIPMAN: These are handwritten speeches, sermons, his report cards from when he was a child. Things that he carried with him throughout his life.

BLACKWELL: However, what is not on display is now at the center of a King family legal fight. Earlier this year, King's sons, Dexter King and Martin Luther King III, acting as board members of their late father's estate, sued their sister, Reverend Bernice King, after she refused to hand over their father's Nobel Peace Prize and traveling Bible. According to court documents, the potential buyer was the National Center for Civil and Human Rights.

BLACKWELL (on camera): Had the center attempted to purchase the Nobel Peace Prize and the traveling Bible?

SHIPMAN: We have had discussions over time about various things that they have that might be on display here or not, but there's never been an actual offer for anything.

BLACKWELL: (voice-over): Reverend Bernice King eventually turned over the items to the court. The siblings will be back in court in September.

ANDREW YOUNG, FRIEND OF MARTIN LUTHER KING JR.: It's a very good beginning.

BLACKWELL: Former Ambassador Andrew Young fought for civil rights alongside Dr. King. He sees the center as a vision for the future and the ongoing push for worker write, LGBT rights and the global fight for women's rights.

YOUNG: This is a moving spiritual, artistic creation that will continue to be, you know, developed to address the conflicts and the problems that we face today and in the future.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And Victor Blackwell joins us live from outside the museum right now.

Victor, I want to just ask you what struck you most as you went through the exhibit. What was the most memorable thing for you?

BLACKWELL: The sounds. The sounds of Bull Connor, the voice of George Wallace. They have television set up where you can flip through the channels and listen to some of the really just egregious statements, the vitriol of that era. And for someone like myself who was not alive during that time, you know the iconic sounds of segregation today, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. But some of the justification for segregation from the leaders of that era, that's what stuck with me as I walked through this center.

You know, with the conversations we had with people who helped to build this, they hoped that what was learned during that era can help to spur change as the fight continues for global human rights, LGBT rights, women's rights around the world.

BANFIELD: Well, I can't wait to see it. And you'll have to be my guide when I come down there to Atlanta, Victor. I hope you'll take me through it.

BLACKWELL: Sure will.

BANFIELD: Thank you, Victor Blackwell. Good to see you, sir.

BLACKWELL: I will.

BANFIELD: And you can learn a whole lot more about the civil rights movement Thursday night, 9:00 p.m. Eastern Time, right here on CNN. Our original series "The Sixties." It returns with stories of American freedom fighters. Tune in on Thursday. Guaranteed to be yet another blockbuster. Such a great series. I'm loving every minute of it.

Coming up, since when is soccer all over the front page of the newspapers? Since America didn't lose. I guess that's good, right? I don't know anything about soccer, but, boy, is it huge. We're going to take you to Rio de Janeiro for some World Cup action right after the break.

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BANFIELD: OK, World Cup fever has officially hit the United States, and Google knows that a lot of people are out there watching any way they can. So I want you to take a very close look at today's really hilarious Google doodle. That's the thing above the search bar. All the little letters are super cute. They're like watching the World Cup. And then we the boss man, B, comes along, you can see the E has a little remote and he switches the channel. You've got to look at it closely. It's really cute. I don't know, I get tickled by these things. I'm easily pleased.

Joining me to talk about the United States' team's chances of moving to the elimination round in the World Cup is CNN's Chris Cuomo. The lovely and talented.

Is that an America shirt you've got on, sir? Where did you get your hands on that?

CHRIS CUOMO, ANCHOR, CNN'S "NEW DAY": Don't you love this? You know, here's the irony, Ashleigh. Here's the irony. You say you're easily amused. Hopefully this will make it over the bar.

So we go into the FIFA shop here that the -- the federation for soccer, and we're looking for an American jersey. Nothing. Right? So we have to go to a local mall over in Ipanema, which is next door to our - Copacabana, where we are here in Rio, and this was the only thing they had in the store. And it turns out, this is the kit that the U.S. was wearing in the match. So it wound up being perfect.

BANFIELD: Nice.

CUOMO: Fortuitous. So I'm wearing it because I'm proud of them and I'm proud of them because they're doing it the hard way. This is tough, the World Cup. Nothing's going to come easy. They learned that in the last seconds last night. But they got a point that gives them progress towards making it out of the group of death into the round of 16. They're making progress. It's not about failure. It's not that they failed to win. And that's not semantics. And it taught the team something, which is a lesson we're talking about right now. They have to be ready to the last moment. So I see it as a net-net positive, what happened last night, as tough as it was to watch it turn that way at the end.

BANFIELD: Funny that you think it was a net-net positive being that there's two nets on that thing (ph). I know nothing about soccer, but I'm really sort of getting caught up in the frenzy of it all. I don't know whether it's because you find these teeny-tiny little countries like Eritrea, who are just super strong and powerful and they really do, you know, put out a good effort on the pitch. But I'm more interested in just how America has sort of come along in this whole notion of being a world player. What we have to do to stay on the TV. What's the deal? What's coming up next?

CUOMO: Well, I would submit to you that that question has an easy answer and a hard answer. The easy answer is about how they keep playing in this tournament. They're in very good shape. There are more permutations that have them advancing than not advancing. Basically, if they can play to a tie with Germany or win with Germany, they're great. If they lose, it gets a little complicated and it could come down to literally the flip of a coin by a FIFA official to decide whether they or Ghana advance. But, keep in mind, there are more chances that they advance than not as long as they play well, even if it's to another tie. So that's the easy answer.

The harder answer is, why is the U.S. getting enthusiasm nye (ph)? I think that's about the domestic culture. These viewing parties you're hearing about. Because the World Cup has always been huge. This is the most watched sport in the world. It's not even a competition. But in the U.S., it's starting to matter. My kids play soccer now. I didn't. I played the more traditional American sports. But as our families get into it, they're starting to take U.S. soccer more seriously. And we're very lucky that we have a team that deserves the respect.

BANFIELD: And this - and this is how we differ. You were playing your sport and I was curling up in Canada.

Chris Cuomo, you got the best assignment and I know you're going to bring me back one of them T-shirts that's going to fit. Thank you, sir. Have fun. Enjoy your assignment. Look for you when you get back.

CUOMO: I'm going to give you this one.

BANFIELD: It's too big.

CUOMO: I'm going to give you this one right now.

BANFIELD: Chris Cuomo live for us. Ultimate sports fan. I love him. Oh, he almost took his shirt off. Oh, my God, that was Chris Cuomo. OK, Chris, I got to stop now. I'm going to end up on YouTube.

I got this video that I have to show you. OK. Here's this amazing 60- foot great white shark. If you thought Jaws was scary, here's the - oh, no, I can't show you. You know what, hopefully Wolf Blitzer's going to do it. I talked too much about Chris Cuomo's chest.

Thank you for watching, everybody. Have a great day. I'll see you tomorrow.