Return to Transcripts main page
Dr. Drew
Hot Car Baby Death
Aired July 08, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, hot car baby death mystery. Did mom and dad share toxic secrets? Was the mother in on the
husband`s double life? The behavior bureau wants to know.
Plus, the Facebook murder. Police say this woman admitted to beating her roommate to death, in grizzly posts on social media.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
And coming up, we have a bunch of exclusive tonight, the only television interview with a woman who found a baby abandoned on a New York
City subway platform.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes. And, Dr. Drew, we also have an exclusive, we`ll have an exclusive talk with a childhood friend of Leanna
Harris. That`s the mother of the baby who died in the hot car.
PINSKY: Lots to get to.
But, first, the mother of that baby who died in the hot car visited the jail today in which her husband was being held. It`s not known if she
actually saw him. We presume she did. He is charged with having murdered his 22-month old son by leaving him to bake in the couple`s SUV.
Take a look at this jailhouse video from NBC.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Another huge development that mom, Leanna Harris, goes to visit her husband today as well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He`s got this whole second life that he is living with alternate personalities.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Tragic accident or premeditated murder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The father says he forgot to take the boy to day care, leaving him strapped in his car seat in an office parking lot in 90-
plus degree heat, for close to seven hours.
PINSKY: He searched on the Internet, child deaths inside vehicles, dangers of leaving someone in a hot car.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He look had up how to kill a child in a car.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were there sext and text messages, talking about the fact that his wife knew he had cheated on her before?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, there were.
PINSKY: Just shaking my head like, what is that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sent a picture of his exposed erect penis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Leanna Harris may have to defend her own action.
PINSKY: The first thing she says to husband is, quote, "Did you say too much?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She is like emotionless. She is chewing bubble gum.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I`m not convinced based on the Internet searches, I`m not convinced based on the mother`s eulogy at the child`s
funeral. I think people grief differently.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back is Anahita Sedaghatfar, defense attorney -- not convinced. Maybe she is convinced now.
Segun Oduolowu, host of "Plugged In with Segun" podcast, and Renee Herlocker, entertainment host and lifestyle blogger.
Anahita, not convinced?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: (AUDIO GAP), Dr. Drew. I don`t think any of this new evidence proves to me that he intended to kill
his son. And if you talk about these, the sexting, the police, the prosecution have made such a big deal about this.
But that is not a big deal. People sext. That`s why there is a word called sexting. I think that might make him a pervert, a cheater, but not
a murderer. And let me just say one thing, if I`m the defense, I`m using the fact that he was sexting with six different women in my favor, because
I`m saying he`s possibly a sex addict and that`s why he reasonably could have forgotten his child is in the car.
PINSKY: Anahita is a baby killer defender. That`s all we know --
(CROSSTALK)
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: That`s low even for you, Doc.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: You have my back.
PINSKY: Anahita, now, Leanna visited -- the wife -- she visited the husband in jail this morning. We have now this video from NBC News. She
was there for about 36 minutes. Now, there`s the video. We don`t know who the other woman is with her. I -- somebody said it might be her mom.
We`re going to talk to a childhood friend of the wives who can answer that question for us.
Segun, she continues to defend him even as suspicious mounts against her.
ODUOLOWU: Dr. Drew, first thing, the name of my podcast is "Wired In" for everybody.
PINSKY: What did I say?
ODUOLOWU: You said plugged in. But don`t worry, wired in, plugged in. It`s "Wired In".
Here`s the thing, Dr. Drew, now, I think that this man is a guy of his word. Like he looked up how to roast a kid in a car, and oh, my God, he
roasted a kid in a car. Then, he`s online looking how to -- one of the people, Anahita, something conveniently neglected to mention, is underage.
He looked out how to get out of statutory, what the laws were of --
SEDAGHATFAR: Does that him a murderer, Segun?
ODUOLOWU: Hold on a second.
SEDAGHATFAR: It`s irrelevant. That`s what I`m saying. He is a horrible guy. He`s a cheater. He`s a child molester.
PINSKY: Let him finish, let him finish. Finish. Go ahead.
ODUOLOWU: No, but, Anahita, there is something wrong with this guy here.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
ODUOLOWU: Like he looks up how to kill a kid and the kid guys. He looks up how to get around statutory and he is sexting a girl who`s
underage. I don`t understand why this woman and I looked up the term, wackadoodle, why this wackadoodle is standing by a guy who is obviously
proven he is not wrapped to tight. So, she is messed up.
PINSKY: Maybe she is beaten by his abuse, Sam. But I like the way Anahita approaches. He`s a creep, he`s a horrible person, he`s a pervert,
he`s not a murderer.
SEDAGHATFAR: True.
ODUOLOWU: Possible rapist, but not a murderer, OK.
RENEE HERLOCKER, ENTERTAINMENT HOST: Because she is the puppet master in this whole situation.
SCHACHER: I agree.
HERLOCKER: I feel like she is the one that`s controlling him to the fullest, because no woman in their right mind who has a child, a 22-month-
old, would cover for a man like this if this is what --
PINSKY: And, Renee, you`re pregnant right now.
HERLOCKER: Yes.
PINSKY: Does it give you a special sense of outrage that she would not only defend the man but move into sentence for the funeral of her own
baby son?
HERLOCKER: I mean, it`s -- I just can`t even imagine feeling like that at all, because you go through so much and, yes, you hear about these
things called pregnancy brain. And parenting is hard, and there is so much going on once the child comes. But you don`t forget your child in a
vehicle when it`s hot outside. I`m sorry. It`s just --
PINSKY: Well, but, Sam, maybe if he is so preoccupied with his sex addiction, he is in an altered state. Not really there. What do you say?
ODUOLOWU: For seven hours at work?
SCHACHER: No, Doc, exactly. And there`s too many red flags, Dr. Drew. I mean, what person, and first of all, Anahita, his guilty meter is
through the roof.
What person takes time-out of the day to research people dying, videos of people dying? And animal, how long it takes for an animal to die in a
car. They don`t even have an animal. How long it takes for a person to die in a car?
And, yes, a lot of this is circumstantial evidence, but you piece it all together and it definitely points to something far, far more sinister.
ODUOLOWU: Follow the bread crumbs, Anahita, he`s guilty.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m not -- no, that`s not true. Do you know the dates of those searches? Do you know for sure if he made those searches in close
proximity to the time his child died?
ODUOLOWU: Does it matter?
SEDAGHATFAR: How do you know -- it absolutely matters. Look, they need to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. All of these little tidbits
of evidence, yes, they don`t look good, but there is are tons of explanation.
ODUOLOWU: He looked up roasting a kid and he roasted a kid.
SEDAGHATFAR: How do you know that he did research that because we didn`t have the mental capacity, maybe he did that in another time before.
SCHACHER: What?
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: Do you believe what you`re saying?
SEDAGHATFAR: I absolutely do.
ODUOLOWU: No, you don`t. No sane person can believe that. You can`t believe that. He looked up how to roast a kid, his kid got roasted. He
looks up how to get out statutory rape, he`s sexting an underage girl.
SEDAGHATFAR: He`s not being charged with statutory rape. What about him research and Googling how to have a child-free life? You guys heard
about that.
ODUOLOWU: And then, all of a sudden, he has a child-free life.
SEDAGHATFAR: Relax, hold on, think --
PINSKY: Last comment and we go to go.
SEDAGHATFAR: Think this through, OK? Do we know if (INAUDIBLE), they have problems conceiving a child? How do you that search wasn`t done by
him or his wife at that time she couldn`t get pregnant.
SCHACHER: That`s not what Web site is about. The Web site is about enjoying a live outside of having children when you once had children.
PINSKY: All right. Stop, she`s good, right? Good. Good job, Anahita.
SEDAGHATFAR: I`m trying, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Next, only on our show, the mom`s high school classmate is here.
And later, I`ve also got an exclusive with the woman herself, who rescued a baby who had been pushed out of a subway on to a subway platform
and left abandoned. We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY (voice-over): Nine-nineteen a.m., Justin and his child leave Chick-fil-A and drives to work.
Arrives two minutes later. In that short time, he supposedly forgets that his son is in the back seat.
Eleven-thirty a.m., goes to lunch with friends.
Twelve-forty-two p.m., returns from lunch, opens up driver`s door and tosses a bag into the car.
Four-sixteen p.m., he leaves work.
Four-twenty-three p.m., pulls into the shopping mall after apparently realizing what he had done.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam. We`re talking about the 22-month-old killed after his own father left him on a hot car for seven hours. The dad claims
this is an accident. His wife went to jail to visit this morning to visit, we believe.
Meanwhile, the focus on her. She`s not a suspect. But the focus grows.
Let`s bring in our behavior bureau. Evy Poumpouras, security expert, former special agent for the Secret Service, Spirit Clanton, therapist and
host of a new show, "The Daily Help Line", premiering Monday, and Wendy Walsh, psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox".
Here is what we know about the wife. She is 30. They have been married eight years. They met in college. They described as having
intimacy problems, which is the most ridiculous -- I don`t know what that means. We know the guy is a sex addict, so, of course, they have intimacy
problems. And they have financial problems.
Now, Spirit, I haven`t heard your thoughts on this relationship and this wife and also this circumstance. What do you think?
SPIRIT CLANTON, TALK2SPIRIT: Well, you know, the interesting thing to me is, why do we let him off already by deciding he is a sex addict because
he was sexting six women the day that he unfortunately killed his child. We have to stop making excuses for folks and some of the comments that I`ve
heard from some of the other guests tonight letting this guy off the hook like this are driving me crazy over here.
Are we serious?
PINSKY: I would say, I agree with you. We should not let this guy off the hook, Wendy. But I`m trying to understand, listen, if the guy is a
sex addict. That`s an explanation as to why we should --
PINSKY: Well, who cares? We should right there and go, OK, this sex addict, he should have come for help years ago, there is no excuse for his
behavior. He spiraled out of control. A dead person because of his sex addiction, that is not an excuse. That is a condemnation.
Wendy, do you agree?
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: I think that is a condemnation. I think we should add to his diagnosis, potentially homicidal maniac. I mean, Dr.
Drew, this isn`t just about sexting and texting.
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: This is -- this isn`t people who have had a terrible relationship. But besides the terrible relationship, it is, where`s their
focus? They are supposed to be a family. Their entire body should be about keeping the child alive and survival. And the fact that there is a
disconnect, that`s the problem. That tells me there`s a big issue --
PINSKY: Well, all right. And, Evy, you see something sinister on that disconnect. You always tell me that people go -- my head won`t go, I
think Spirit`s head might go there. But my head doesn`t go to -- somebody goes to a darker place than they ever thought they could.
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: Yes, well, this is the thing, Dr. Drew, when we analyze these cases, I can`t see it from my perspective and
you can`t see it from your perspective. We have to switch off and see it from the other person`s perspective. We have to think like the other
individual thinks, and that`s where we`re going to figure out what`s going on. There`s just too much circumstantial evidence here that`s pointing in
this direction, the culpable direction.
PINSKY: Premeditated culpable.
POUMPOURAS: Correct. And I do agree with the other guests that just because somebody is a sex addict, that can`t basically use as a reason to
say this is why this individual did it.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: What would you guys think --
CLANTON: Let`s be real.
(CROSSTALK)
CLANTON: -- a hundred people that day. I don`t care if you were having sex with somebody, one of your coworkers in the bathroom. I don`t
care if you and your wife haven`t been able to get along together for the last 20 years. I don`t care if you hate your job. I don`t care if you
almost hit somebody on your way to work.
None of that matters. What does that have to do with the fact that he murdered his child potentially?
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: He wanted a child-free life.
CLANTON: Stop making excuses.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: Yes, I know --
CLANTON: And he had options. He could have taken that child up for adoption. He could have taken that child to a fire department. He could
have called defects.
If you wanted a child-free life and we cannot let him nor his wife off the hook the way that you`re doing.
SCHACHER: I`m on your team, Spirit, I`m cheering you on, pun intended. But, no, I think the reason they haven`t dropped the child off
at the fire department or put him up for adoption, was because of the fact that they`re also in financial straits and they wanted to cash in for his
life insurance policy.
CLANTON: They aren`t getting money anyway.
SCHACHER: Thank God.
PINSKY: The mom is.
CLANTON: What planet did he live on? What planet -- do you think they will ever see a dime of that?
SCHACHER: Of course not.
CLANTON: A small, meager $27,000. They will never see it. Who is the rational person in this family?
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: There aren`t any.
PINSKY: You guys are jumping all over the place. They`re irrational, but they suddenly became irrational. What rendered them irrational?
What rendered them irrational, if we used the word stuck in alcohol as opposed to sex, people say, oh, I get it, their brain wasn`t working right.
CLANTON: I still wouldn`t get it. It`s still would not be an excuse.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: It would not be an excuse. It`s not an --we have got to distinguish between excuses and way of understanding what a condemnation,
this is a condemnation of behavior, that should have been handled years before.
I got on the phone an exclusive guest. His name is John Pearson. He is former classmate Leanna Harris.
John, you knew Leanna in high school. Can you describe what she was like back then?
JOHN PEARSON, FORMER CLASSMATE OF LEANNA HARRIS (via telephone): The Leanna I remember and the Leanna I knew 16 years ago at this point was a
very shy, very quiet, very keep to herself type of person. There was never any issues with Leanna, nor myself. I actually got along with Leanna very
well, coming from small town Alabama, growing up in a Christian Academy area where the school was K through 12 of 300 people. So, there`s about 12
to 13 people who passed in your class.
I mean, we -- we got along very well. More of us were like family together in a lot of ways. A lot of us stayed in touch throughout years.
PINSKY: John, I`m going to interrupt you and say that, a lot of what people are wondering about is this seeming lack of emotion that they are
seeing in the courtroom. Do you make anything of that?
PEARSON: Honestly, no. I don`t know, to be honest with you, sir, the Leanna I knew wasn`t an emotional person. So, to say she is hiding emotion
or not showing emotion could be the case or just one of those things where, maybe there`s more to it.
PINSKY: Right.
John, thank you for joining us. Hold if you wouldn`t mind. I want to keep this conversation going. We will continue this panel. And later,
I`ve got a woman who admits on Facebook that she killed her roommate and posted hundreds of videos about it. I`ve got the victim`s ex-wife with me.
That is later. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She said that she had first met Ross and she knew him as Ross through a Scout service. And that he had met, that he wanted
to hook up with her. She said something to the effect of, do you have a conscious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what was his response?
UNIDENTIFEID MALE: Nope.
PINSKY: Scary. Back with Sam, Anahita, Evy and Renee.
We are talking about Justin Ross, the man you saw there. The father charged with murder, having left his son in a scorching car. His wife is
part of the investigation although she hasn`t been charged with anything.
I still have on the phone with us, an exclusive guest, John Pearson. He`s a former classmate of Leanna Harris.
And, John, I just want to go to really quick, you know, at the funeral, Leanna said something about, she add strange way of describing her
acceptance of the child`s death. One of the things she said was that the child wouldn`t have to go through bullying and the misery she alluded to,
that she went to in school. I don`t remember if she said junior high or high school.
Does that sound like the same person you observed?
PEARSON: Honestly, to tell you the truth, I don`t remember any of that. Not to say that it did or did not happen. But I don`t remember any
of that. I attended the academy my junior/senior year before graduating. So, I only knew Leanna for about two years before actually, you know,
graduating in high school graduation and moving on to my career path and whatnot.
PINSKY: And if I --if I get you right, I mean, she`s somebody who was a very lovely person, nothing special, and this is all seems like just a
horrible tragedy from your perspective.
PEARSON: In my perspective, honestly, I think it`s more than just a horrible tragedy. Being a father myself, I don`t see, honestly, how
someone could forget their child in a hot car, as they put it. I am not judge or jury as far as that`s concerned. I will say, though, that the
horrible tragedy is the death of the child, Cooper.
But as a father, I don`t see how someone could honestly forget their child in a car. When I take my children anywhere, I talk to them, I
interact. First thing, I do --
PINSKY: I got you. That`s what we are all trying to get our head around it and it is impossible. And yet, everyday, we`re hearing stories,
20 deaths a year of children left in a hot care. We`re hearing, we`ve been report daily stories of people going to bars and going to grocery stores
and locking their kids in the car.
Anahita, can you defend that stuff if somebody does that and, you know, forgets a child in the car because they went in to toss a couple
beers down?
SEDAGHATFAR: Oh, yes. That`s a different level. I mean, on the one hand, you have someone that arguably did this intentionally, which is
what`s being alleged in this case. And then you have negligence.
PINSKY: Both criminal.
SEDAGHATFAR: Both criminal, right. You can`t have criminal negligence, and that`s when you didn`t mean to, you forgot, it truly was an
accident. Both of them, though, are criminal cases.
PINSKY: And, Evy, we -- from the beginning, you`ve been saying the way the cops behaved, the police behaved in regard to this case has
informed you they didn`t go for criminal negligence in this case, they went for murder.
POUMPOURAS: Yes, because they believe on the circumstantial evidence they have, that that`s enough to obviously get probable cause, which we
did. The judge denied him bond, obviously for the reasons. And they are pushing forward.
Again, it`s -- we may not have the smoking gun. But in law enforcement, they`re going to take all those small pieces, put them
together like Sam said earlier. Paint a picture and use that to convict someone based on the plea. But there`s too many things pointing that this
person is culpable. There`s nothing -- even from a neutral perspective, there`s nothing I see helping exonerate him. Everything that comes up is
pretty much damming evidence against both the mother and the father.
PINSKY: Now, you guys got a lot of questions about this case. Here is what some of you posted on Facebook. How can a person maintain such
split identities? It would have to be so exhausting.
Sam, I think you would agree with that. I mean, if he`s having all these bizarre, just even have an affair seems exhausting to me, let alone
carry on multiple bizarre sort of relationships through the Internet.
SCHACHER: Yes. I think that`s exactly right. The fact that he portrayed himself one way to the community, because a lot of people, when
they are asked within this neighborhood in this town, is that this was a very loving husband. Well, clearly, that`s not the case here.
PINSKY: That`s not in fact who he was. And, Renee, not only that, but he presented himself as a paragon of virtue. He`s a religious man.
HERLOCKER: I mean, that`s always the fallback, isn`t it, when somebody is trouble, or doing something wrong, they always fall back on
religion. I don`t buy it.
I think we have to go back to the facts and I just find it very strange that, you know, not only his sense of smell wasn`t working, but
they`re claiming that he may have a hearing deficiency in his right ear. I`m sorry, but when you`re driving to work, he had to have turned over his
right shoulder and seen his child there. So, those little facts, you know, just don`t add up.
And then, going back to, you know, his wife. I feel like it`s going to blow up in her face, because she`s going to have to testify against him.
PINSKY: That`s what I want to know. Anahita, could she -- our viewers are asking if she is accused of something.
SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t think she is not based on the evidence they have on her now. If they want to convict her for not having enough emotion or
for using certain words at the eulogy or for chewing gums during the hearing, then, yes, go ahead and charged her. But they have nothing on
her. There`s no tangible evidence that she conspired with her husband, Dr. Drew.
Where are the e-mails? Where are the text messages? Where`s any communication that police or prosecution can show us that would indicate
that she conspired with her husband to kill their own child? It`s not there and that`s why they haven`t charged her.
PINSKY: Oh, the Twitter verse is going to show their love to Anahita today.
Next up, the woman says on a Facebook post that she killed a man by bashing his head on the floor.
And later, a woman who rescued a baby from a subway platform speaking out only to us here at DR. DREW ON CALL.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: These are the Facebook ramblings of a woman police say had just committed murder. Forty-year-old Rosemary Fareed (ph)
now held without bond.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sorry. I didn`t have time to wash my face before I put the video on. Because O-M-G.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Friends of Donald Devalny (ph) are crushed. They say he was too trusting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I told him to stay away from her. She was bad news.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fareed posted this on her Facebook page. She said she was staying with her friend Donnie, said that she was having
violent fantasies about taking revenge on him.
In another post, she says, he had one coming from her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donnie just said a mouthful, O-M-G.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Friends say this was all over Fareed`s dog.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She lied about him killing our dog. He didn`t kill our dog. Our dog died.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Oh, boy, back with Sam, Anahita, Segun, and Renee.
Images of the suspect and victim are from Facebook and "The Daily Mail". Police say the 40-year-old woman confessed to beating her 64-year-
old male housemate after they gotten into some sort of altercation over her dog.
Sam, tell me what else we know.
SAM SCHACHER, HOST OF "POP TRIGGER": Yes. So, police say that she pushed him. He fell, struck his head on the concrete tile entry way near
the bathroom. That is when she told police she got on top of him and continuously smashed his head on the ground. The police finally tracked
her down, Dr. Drew at a medical center because she was being placed on an involuntary hold for an unrelated incident.
PINSKY: Well, say that again. What?
SCHACHER: Yes. So, that is where the police found her. She was being placed on an involuntary hold --
PINSKY: So, she was on a hold at the psychiatric hold for other behavior.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And, there she found and murdered somebody?
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: The woman`s attorney contacted us. She is a public defender. She told us that within upon meeting this woman immediately, she
knew this was somebody who is severely ill. The lawyer also said, a family member claims she has had issues since elementary school.
There are like 240 videos, much like this one, where she -- that is her mouth she is taking a picture of. These were all posted on Facebook.
Now, people are looking at all of that, Anahita, and saying, "Is she competent to stand trial?"
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, LEGAL ANALYST/DEFENSE ATTORNEY: That is a great question. And, one of the first things her attorneys need to do is get her
evaluated, Dr. Drew. They have to determine whether or not she is competent to even sit through trial. They need to see. Does she
understand what the charges against her?
PINSKY: What do you think? What is your instinct?
SEDAGHATFAR: I do not think so. I think Sam just summed it up. She has already on a 51/50 hold. She might not be competent to stand trial.
It is a high burden. But, even if she is, I think she is going to for a not guilty by reason of insanity.
PINSKY: Segun -- I think she will too. But, Segun, I will lock horns with you, man. I think there is no way that she is incompetent. This
woman has had crazy behavior her whole life, but this is more in the evil category.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL ANALYST: Yes.
PINSKY: She is not saying, I am Jesus. I am napoleon. I got somebody coming to get me. I got to kill my roommate before they get to
him. There is no delusional system here. That is just this agitation and irritability. And, by the way, a long rap sheet of horrible behaviors.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: This is where evil sort of comes into the picture.
ODUOLOWU: Thank you, Dr. Drew. It has taken so many shows for you to come on to my side and say people are evil.
PINSKY: You got to be very specific about where we apply that.
ODUOLOWU: No. No. This woman is a personification.
PINSKY: Yes.
ODUOLOWU: It does not take a lot of strength to beat up a man in his 60s and to smash his man on the tiles.
PINSKY: It does not?
ODUOLOWU: No, it does not. And, this woman -- it does not take a lot of effort. Obviously, you do not have to be super strong. This woman is a
bully and she is crazy. What bothers me about all of this how could this man -- this woman wears crazy on her, like women wear blouses. Like, you
cannot see that this woman was crazy? How do you live with this roommate? I do not want to disparage the victim --
PINSKY: We are using a term that is pejorative. Let`s take crazy. Let`s take that word off the table. But, Anahita, you know what I mean?
That she has had behavioural problems and personality problems and aggressions, and all these horrible things. That does not make somebody
incompetent to stand trial.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, yes. There are two issues like I said. Even if she is incompetent to stand trial, which means she understands the charges
against her, she can participate in her own defense. Dr. Drew how can you say that this was only evil and that this girl did not have mental issues?
PINSKY: Well, I did not say --
ODUOLOWU: Well, she was smart enough to use the phone!
SEDAGHATFAR: I thought you said that she did not have that.
PINSKY: No. No. I said, she was not -- No. No. She has long- standing mental issues but she is not incompetent.
SEDAGHATFAR: OK.
ODUOLOWU: No. She was smart enough to upload videos. Smart enough to video tape herself, smart enough to keep a log. And,here is what
bothers me, Anahita --
SEDAGHATFAR: No. She was not trying to hide it from the -- She did not try to cover up her facts.
ODUOLOWU: Wait. But, Anahita -- But, Anahita -- yes, she was.
SEDAGHATFAR: Why did she confess to the police?
ODUOLOWU: If you follow the facts --
SEDAGHATFAR: Let me --
ODUOLOWU: She took his phone. She took his phone.
PINSKY: Both of you, for a second. Stop. Stop. Stop. Renee, how about the Facebook videos? Her entries on Facebook, you think that is OK
for her to be putting these rants up there?
RENEE HERLOCKER, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: No. But, you know, first, I think we are overlooking the fact that she might just be intoxicated throughout
this whole thing and have an addiction problem.
PINSKY: That is true. She does apparently. She says part of it. That is right.
HERLOCKER: Yes. That is first and foremost. But, yes, these messages are just ridiculous. And, I always go back to, when is Facebook
going stand in. And, I know, Sam, we have talked about it where, you know, we do not want to get Big Brother on it or anything. But, at what point
does Facebook going to stand in and say, this girl is crazy. Sorry, Dr. Drew. She is cra-cra and we need to do something about it.
SCHACHER: Absolutely! No, Renee. I think I mean who are these people. I mean let`s put Facebook aside, whoever is governing it, but who
are these people that are friends with her on Facebook reading these posts and they are not concerned that she is threatening the life of another
individual.
HERLOCKER: Well, how many friends does she even have?
PINSKY: Everybody, look on what is up there on the screen. This is her arrest history.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: There is a lot of criminality here, Anahita. That suggest that she -- and none of those were, you know, incompetent.
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, we do not know that.
ODUOLOWU: And, she stole the phone.
SEDAGHATFAR: Maybe she was not incompetent to stand trial, but she might have gotten a not guilty by reason of insanity. She might have not
been sentenced to any jail time. Maybe she was sentenced to treatment, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Got it.
SEDAGHATFAR: When you try to -- like not cover up the fact that you committed a murder, when you brag to police about it, that pretty much
indicates you did not know that what you did was wrong.
PINSKY: Having violent fantasies.
SCHACHER: Or maybe she wanted attention.
ODUOLOWU: But, Anahita, how much more evidence do you need? Like it is there in black and white. Then she stole the phone, so the police could
not call it.
SEDAGHATFAR: I am not saying she did not do it. She confessed, Segun. What I am saying is that the issue going to be is did she know what
she was doing was wrong?
ODUOLOWU: When you leave the scene of a crime, you know.
PINSKY: Hold on. Hold on. I got the ex-wife of the victim. The Facebook victim as we call it here. We are going to talk to her. And,
later another bizarre behavioral circumstance. A woman leaves a baby abandoned on the New York City Subway Platform. We got the woman who
rescued the baby. She is here with the answer about what it was that led to this baby`s mom to push the child out of a subway and take off. Back
after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Donnie was driving me so insane that I was like delirious from the fighting. I could not take it anymore. I was having fantasies
about stabbing him in the neck with a very sharp little knife. I am a pretty dangerous person when I am driven to it.
So, I left but before I left I took all of the money out of his wallet and I stole his phone. He started cleaning up the blood on the
floor. That is what a clean freak he is. He is getting assaulted. He does not care about the blood or anything. He cares about the tiles.
Let`s clean up the tiles. He is a moron.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCHACHER: Wow!
PINSKY: Those were quotes from this woman. Re-enactments, but those were the quotes. I am back with Sam and behavioral Bureau, Evy, Spirit and
Wendy. Those are our interpretation of the videos by Rosemarie Farid. She posted them on Facebook before and after she allegedly beat her male
housemate to death.
Now, we just heard from the public defender -- we heard from the public defender who tells us she has been declared incompetent on some of
her priors. So, whatever Anahita`s -- Evy, go ahead.
EVY POUMPOURAS, ON-AIR SECURITY/INVESTIGATIVE ANALYST: I do not hear you.
PINSKY: Oh, she cannot hear me. Wendy, there are 240 videos total. In one she says she is mentally disabled. I am going to go to -- this in a
second, because this to me is somebody who is really not -- is more than just mentally ill.
SPIRIT CLANTON, HLN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. I mean this is someone who is a narcissus, psychopath, histrionic personality disorder, where else can we
go with this one? I mean --
PINSKY: Yes.
CLANTON: But, you know, at the end of the day, she may have a mental illness, but let`s be real here. She does not have any family and friends
on Facebook, OK? There is no way you can have someone who has an illness and where are all of the other people in this situation when she is posting
these things.
And, we have got to get better and be more accountable to our friends and family when we know we have people who are mentally ill. When we know
we have people who are a danger to society. We have to stop covering their tracks. We have to stop covering for them. And, we have to pick up a
phone and call and get them some help.
SCHACHER: I agree. I think we all need to be reporters.
PINSKY: Sam, what I was just saying --
SCHACHER: We have a turn of that, right Dr. Drew? We have a turn here --
CLANTON: Should be held accountable here.
PINSKY: I agree, Spirit. We need to be citizens of social media.
SCHACHER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: We need to learn how to read these things and then report them. But, people do not know where to go with them. But, go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: Well, here is the thing. I mean you look at this woman --
CLANTON: Hello, hello, hello.
SCHACHER: OK. You look at this woman`s post, and you see that this is not just your average disgruntled room mate complaining about dirty
dishes or loud music. This is somebody who is literally threatening to kill another person. Like you said, Dr. Drew, it is far more sinister.
And, I do not understand why people are not alerting authorities when they see one of these videos or one of these posts. We can help prevent these
tragedies from occurring.
PINSKY: Now, Evy, can you hear me now? Are you all hooked in with me, Evy? -- Good!
POUMPOURAS: We are good. I am with you.
PINSKY: My question -- you know, my sense is, you know, this is not somebody saying, "Oh, there is somebody coming to get me and I have to kill
him before they kill me. This is somebody who is saying --
CLANTON: I feel like stabbing him in the neck with a knife.
PINSKY: Yes. Exactly! Yes. I am kind of an irritable person and I am just having fantasies of killing my roommate. That is not OK.
CLANTON: Hello?
PINSKY: That is more than mental illness for me. Evy.
POUMPOURAS: Right. So, I do agree she has mental illness there but that probably with some of that evil behaviour, which makes her prone to
behaving this way --
PINSKY: Right.
POUMPOURAS: So, you have both worlds. But, being mentally ill or having this emotional instability does not obviously excuse the act. As
far as even what you discussed earlier, her competence to stand trial. I think those are two separate things. I think they are going to find her
competent. She is going to stand trial. Mental illness does not excuse this behavior.
PINSKY: That is right.
POUMPOURAS: But, I do see that there is consistent pattern in her past. And, I think also to touch on Facebook, why nobody noticed anything,
maybe this is just who she has been for her whole life. And, when she has done that before --
CLANTON: That is not an excuse.
PINSKY: I agree with Spirit. Not an excuse. You have to monitor things better. Now, on the phone, I got Gina Fitzmaurice. She is the
second of the three ex wives of Donald, the victim. Gina, this is such a tragic story. Our condolences. Why would -- Was he worried about this
woman?
GINA FITZMAURICE, EX-WIFE OF DONALD, THE VICTIM: This woman took advantage of Donnie. Donnie was the kindest, most loving individual in the
world. He trusted everybody, and he would do anything for anybody. He was not an animal abuser.
PINSKY: Of course not.
FITZMAURICE: All of those things that she said are lies.
PINSKY: Did anybody warn him about her? Were there any attempts intervene or any warnings that this was going to spiral out of control?
FITZMAURICE: His ex-wife Patty had actually felt that she was bad nuisance, and that she should stay away from her. She went ahead and
wormed her way in and he apparently agreed to let her stay there for a short time. And, it was not working out, for whatever reasons I do not
know.
And, he asked her to leave approximately around June 25th, I think it was --or the 26th. That is one of those two days. And, she got very
argumentative and violent. So, he had to call the police, supposedly, and had her removed from the home.
SCHACHER: Wow.
PINSKY: And, she then came back.
FITZMAURICE: And, that is why she was planning this revenge on him. She was upset because he would no longer let her stay there.
PINSKY: Wendy, last thoughts. This is a tragedy. Wendy.
WENDY WALSH, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: Yes. Absolute tragedy. I mean, I wish that people could have warned this victim. That she was posting this
stuff on Facebook. I wish the Facebook social media community could certainly have, you know, acted as stewards out there and alerted
authorities earlier. But, I am not sure, short of a restraining order what could have happened or if she would have ever obeyed a restraining order.
PINSKY: Listen. I am totally in line with Spirit on this one. This is a bad person doing bad things. We need to differentiate that from
somebody who may also have mental illness as Evy said. This is horrible.
Next up, I got a mom accused of abandoning her baby on a subway platform. We have an exclusive with the woman who rescued the child after
this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The mom was on the subway car. Then as the doors opened, she pushed the stroller out of the train. Doors closed,
baby is left by herself on the platform and mom stays on the train and off she goes.
Certainly she wanted the baby to be safe, you can argue. She wanted the baby to be exposed around a lot of people. It is very well traveled.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: When this young mother was pregnant last year, she witnessed the murder of the baby`s father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Jason and Renee. We are trying to understand why a woman would abandon her baby on a New York City Platform. When the
train stopped, Frankea Dabbs pushed the baby`s stroller off the train then the doors closed. Frankea road away, baby left alone at the subway
platform. The woman on the platform -- the woman did stay with the baby. And, when the mother did not come back, she called the police.
The mother told police she could not care for the child and she wanted to leave the child in a safe public place. This woman made a night
time court appearance. And, we just got this video of her. Take a look at this. Renee, do you believe her? That this was just simply her desperate
for somebody to take care of her child?
HERLOCKER: Well, I do think that she is desperate. But, I obviously think that there were way safer options for her. What about the aunt? Was
the aunt supportive? And, would she have taken care of the baby? I just do not buy the fact that she really thought that this was the safest place
for this child.
PINSKY: Jason, all day we have been talking about people, very strange behaviour in relation to their kids. Can you imagine -- this is
probably the least egregious, but can you imagine even this?
JASON ELLIS, AUSTRALIAN SATELLITE RADIO HOST: I mean when you are really down and you have nothing to live for and maybe you have been
through that tragedy, maybe you have not. I feel someone that scared or down on their luck, do not think of the right place to drop her off. I
feel like she tried to drop her off in a place where there was a lot of people. There was a huge chance that the baby could live. It is not the
smartest thing to do.
PINSKY: It is funny that you would say this, because a lot of the social media posts where people saying, "Well, at least she did not kill
the baby."
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: How low has our standard for parenting come? Well, at least she did not destroy her child, good for her.
HERLOCKER: Yes. Praise should not be given to the people who are irresponsible and have no -- You know? -- They just have no idea how to
take care of a child or love a child.
PINSKY: But, a lot of people agree with Jason, Sam.
SCHACHER: Yes -- No. I actually have a lot of empathy for this woman, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: You do?
SCHACHER: I do. Listen. She has a history of drug usage, prostitution. She witnessed her husband being murdered. She was hiding
under the bed when this incident occurred. And, I think in her mind, at that moment, she thought that she was doing the best thing for the child
because she thought that her life was far for more dangerous.
PINSKY: All right.
SCHACHER: And, the baby was well maintained. But, I do wish that she would have gotten treatment.
PINSKY: Well, with me tonight, I have Catherine Goodman. Catherine is actually the woman who cared for the baby and called police when the mom
did not return. Catherine, thank you for joining us. You were on the same train as the mom. Tell us what happened when you got off.
CATHERINE GOODMAN, RESCUED ABANDONED BABY: Well, first off, I held the door for them to get on the subway car. As, I always do when I see a
stroller. I hold the door, so they can get on safely. And, I did not see them on the car. I heard the baby crying.
And, then I had moved forward to the car to the very front door. And, I got out of the front door, when the train stopped, several stops
later. And, as I was walking towards the exit, there was the baby in the stroller. There was no one else around.
PINSKY: Did you see the mom pulling away on the train?
GOODMAN: Well, it was very funny. I saw the stroller and I looked up and I saw the mom in the subway door just looking at us. And, the train
pulled off. And, I was just -- you know, completely --
ELLIS: You are a great American, that is all I know.
(LAUGHING)
GOODMAN: Anybody would do this. I mean this poor thing. I mean --
PINSKY: How did the baby seem in terms of the care the baby was receiving? Did you have any concerns the baby had been ill treated prior
to this?
GOODMAN: No. In fact, she had socks on her hands. And, you know, sometimes you did that with babies so they do not scratch their faces.
And, it is kind of a funny little thing. But, it is like she had little hot pink socks on her hands.
PINSKY: Did you meet the mom or see the mom after she pulled away subsequently?
GOODMAN: No. No. I then went to find an MTA worker and we went, because usually what people do, this happens sometimes. It is every mom is
worst nightmare, but we went and waited by the downtown train exit. Because usually, the mom would go to the next stop --
PINSKY: And come back.
GOODMAN: And, come back. So, we were hoping that she would just come back and we waited for a while for her to come back.
PINSKY: Well, thank you, Catherine. As Jason said, a great American. And, that is coming from an Australian.
ELLIS: I am an Australian-American. I live here now.
PINSKY: And, there - where his daughter jumped off - he was freaking out and came back downtown and got the child. But, that is what you expect
a parent to do, to be absolutely losing their mind as the train pulls away. And, this one is just dissociated -- what is that Jason?
ELLIS: What if the government gave people, I was talking about this subject on my radio show today. And, I thought the solution could be, what
about if you did commercials instead of like, when you smoke weed, you run people over at a drive through. Give the baby to the government and we
will give you $500 cash.
That way, the baby is safe. You get your money for your drugs. Everybody wins. We need the baby back because you are not capable. See
how that works out. But come and get $500 instead of dropping it over to the train station.
PINSKY: We will keep this going. Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: They saw this woman push a baby`s stroller from the subway. The doors were opening, leaving this little baby
and then jump back on a departing train.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE REPORTER: She had been staying with her aunt, but her aunt tells us that she had moved out concerned that some people were
looking for her and she did not want them showing up at her aunt`s house.
JOEY JACKSON (?), DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Look, at things we could have done. My client could have pushed her in front of the train. She could
have killed her. She could have done something else. But no, judge, because she did not have the resources, she was a loving caring mother, she
ensured that the child was in an area.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Jason, Evy and Renee. We are talking about the mother who was accused of abandoning her baby on the subway platform.
Who was that? Who said that, that the baby was assured -- Joey Jackson?
SCHACHER: I think it was Joey Jackson. I recognized his accent.
PINSKY: But Sam, she could have left the baby at fire station or hospital. Leaving the baby, abandoned on a subway -- by the way, that
subway platform, I am very familiar with it. I use it all the time. It is actually a well-lived, well-travelled one. It is a safer one.
ELLIS: Maybe she was hoping you would find the baby.
PINSKY: Thank you, Jason. Maybe that was it. Frankea`s family said that while she was pregnant, she witnessed the murder of the baby`s father.
There has been a lot of trauma. Sam, did you say prostitution in her life?
SCHACHER: Yes. Prostitution and drug usage. But, that was all in the past. I am not sure if it applies as of recent.
PINSKY: So, Evy, here again, we have this combination of somebody with some character issues, some bad choices in her life, some addiction
and maybe some paranoia also here. Maybe she believed someone was coming after her and the only thing she could save the baby was by distancing
herself from the baby.
POUMPOURAS: Well, I do not know if that has really anything -- if we are talking really about mental illness here. Because, if it legitimate,
she did witness the death of the father, and there is another back story to that. Maybe she had legitimate reasons for being fearful.
She did come all the way to New York and decides to do this all the way in New York. And, maybe in her mind, she thought -- I am not saying,
it is an excuse, but, perhaps, she thought that this was the best way it distance herself with the baby. As far as giving it to fire department or
police department, they would not have taken the baby.
PINSKY: What? Why not?
POUMPOURAS: Well, how would they -- you can come and surrender the baby and be like I do not want my baby -- They are not going to let her off
the hook. .
PINSKY: I see, in California you can just do that.
SCHACHER: Only a matter of days, though, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Well, that is the problem. She is moving around from the state to state. The witness of the murder was in North Carolina. Renee,
here we are again, I am going to come to the pregnant woman and ask you how this feels to see somebody abandoning a child. At least she did not harm
the child.
HERLOCKER: Right. I mean, obviously, as a human being, there is a sense of empathy that I do have for a mother. But, on the other side of
it, she has this track record. And, Sam you said, we do not know of late what was going on drug addiction or the prostitution charges, but
witnessing the father`s death or the murder, those alone, you know, I think are causing endangerment for the baby in the first place. So, maybe they
should not give her custody right away.
PINSKY: Maybe not right away. But, Jason, what do you say? Yes or no?
ELLIS: I think people from a hard side of life, you know, they do not have all the information that we have. She should not have had the baby
ever. She was not responsible enough to have a child. But it is alive, it is here. I am just glad someone else has it other than her. She is not
capable.
PINSKY: Not right now. Maybe she could be. Maybe she could be educated, maybe she could be treated. Maybe it is possible. DVR us right
now, so you could able to watch us any time. Forensic Files follows us and it begins right now.
END
