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United Nations Tells Israel And Palestinians To Stop Shooting; Federal Officials Say They Will Begin Deportations Of Undocumented This Week; Multiple Parents Arrested After Leaving Children In Hot Cars
Aired July 12, 2014 - 15:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
MIGUEL MARQUEZ, CNN HOST: You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Miguel Marquez in New York.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Here's what we're working on in this hour. All week there have been stories of children being forgotten, a baby abandoned on a subway platform, a little boy told to hide in his basement or quote "he might disappear." Then the case of Cooper Harris, the toddler in Georgia left to die in a hot car. His dad, Justin Ross Harris, claiming he forgot he was in the car. We also have new disturbing details on types of child-free websites searched by Harris and then it will shock owe what we've found.
Sad news, the number of parents leaving children in the car is all too common. Now governments are taking action, changing laws to try to make these deaths stop. Has it been this bad all along, or are we just paying more attention now?
All that coming up in the CNN NEWSROOM.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: But first before that, developments on a couple of fronts. One of our nation's southern border, another half a world away, a lot of people in the U.S. illegally are about to be sent back to their home countries. We've got details on the deportations about to begin. How many people, where they're from, and what is Washington doing to try and fix an immigration system that most agree is busted.
Also today, we are live from Gaza where the United Nations is telling both Israel and Palestinians to stop the shooting and ratchet down the tension. More people killed this weekend, more people pushed out of their homes.
The federal government's head of national security has a stern message for the tens of thousands of undocumented immigrants streaming across the U.S./Mexico border. You can't stay here.
Federal officials say they will begin deportations this week. This comes as the Obama administration is wrestling with a surge in children crossing into the U.S. without their parents. As you can see their numbers are rising fast. What's driving these people north is crippling poverty and out-of-control violence in places like Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador, desperate for some kind of future, they embark on long and dangerous journeys of thousands of miles or more to reach the U.S. only to find out it was for nothing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEH JOHNSON, SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY: I think it's fair to say that a good number of them were surprised that they were being detained. I think they expected to be apprehended and simply let go into the interior and they're surprised that they're being detained and sent back so quickly.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Now, CNN's Erin McPike joins us from the White House.
Erin, Republicans and some Democrats have already said that no way to the president's request for nearly $4 billion to deal with this crisis. Does the administration have a plan B?
ERIN MCPIKE, CNN GENERAL ASSIGNMENT CORRESPONDENT: Well, Miguel, I wouldn't characterize this proposal as completely dead yet. What we're hearing from some lead Republicans on this issue is that they want to see more conditions on that money before they can sign off on any of it.
We're also seeing a lot more movement on Capitol Hill in a couple of different ways. Just yesterday we heard from Arizona Senator John McCain. Of course Arizona is a border state. He's partnering with his colleague in the Senate in Arizona, Jeff Flake, and they've introduced legislation that would put more conditions on money that they could approve and part of those are immediate deportations.
Well, we're also seeing another piece of legislation being introduced next week by Texas Senator John Cornyn, he is a Republican, of course Texas a border state as well. And he is partnering with a Democratic congressman Henry Cuellar who has, as you mentioned, has been critical of the Obama administration. But moves on several fronts, Miguel.
So I wouldn't call that over just yet. The challenge will be getting the House Republican leadership to bring a bill to the floor. But we are going to be seeing a number of efforts come up in the next couple of weeks.
MARQUEZ: Well, those house Republicans are always so easy to convince about getting things to the floor. But immigration is always a very tough question. Democrats, Cuellar included, have some issues with this money. What are they saying about the emergency funds?
MCPIKE: Well, what we're seeing from some of these Democratic members of Congress who represent border districts is they are saying that the Obama administration is not doing enough. Some are saying that they're not doing enough in terms of border patrol. Others are saying they're not doing enough on the humanitarian side. But I would also point out that what this border crisis is doing is
bringing renewed calls for comprehensive immigration reform. We're seeing John McCain partner with Lindsey Graham and also Chuck Schumer, a Democrat, and they are going to be moving forward on comprehensive immigration reform in the next couple months. Of course we have the long August recess and the midterm elections. But there is some movement. This is not just gridlock. We may see some more developments on this yet -- Miguel.
MARQUEZ: It is strange bedfellows, gridlock.
Thank you very much. Erin McPike there at the White House.
A hundred and thirty five people are now reported killed in Gaza after several days of bombardment from Israel.
(VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)
MARQUEZ: That is one of about 500 buildings in Gaza destroyed by the Israeli military. Israel calls them Hamas targets. The Palestinians say their water systems and power supply have been hit and hospitals are overwhelmed by the nearly 1,000 people injured.
Our senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman is in Gaza right now.
Ben, night has fallen there. What sort of activity are you seeing at the moment?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Just about seven minutes ago, Miguel, we saw several missiles being fired not far from here in the direction of Israel. And what's interesting is that about 8:00 local time, that's two hours ago, Hamas put out a twitter informing journalists that they should set up their cameras and be ready for a volley of rockets fired into Israel.
We did set up our cameras, but we didn't see anything, although there were reports of rockets being fired from the north of here and to the south in the direction of Israel. They've unveiled, apparently, in that barrage that took place an hour ago what they call the M-80 -- I mean the J-80, excuse me. That is an 80-kilometer-range missile, the first one they use, although we hear from Israel that three of those were intercepted by the iron dome system and the others fell into open areas without any injuries or damage.
Now, here in Gaza, though, we are seeing a lot of damage. We went this afternoon to a home for the handicapped that took a direct hit at 5:00 in the morning, killed two of the residents, four others are in hospital with severe burns. We saw two of them who have cerebral palsy in addition to that.
This is increasingly a problem that you have all these civilian casualties, many of them clearly like the people in this home for the handicapped. They couldn't harm a soul, let alone fire a rocket into Israel. This high level of civilian casualties, as you said, now 135, is
beginning to really cause an uproar of anger here in Gaza toward Israel -- Miguel.
MARQUEZ: Well, there seems to be anger to go around there on almost eve a good day. It doesn't seem to be going away. With Hamas now showing its hand and using those longer-range missiles, does that seem to indicate a greater likelihood of a ground invasion by Israel? And what do they expect there? Do they expect a ground invasion?
WEDEMAN: Well certainly, they -- it looks like the ground is being prepared for one. We are hearing reports that leaflets are being dropped in northern Gaza telling people to leave the area. This is what we saw in the past, a prelude to a ground invasion. And certainly that could be the case.
Look. We've seen more than 30,000 Israeli reservists called out for a possible ground invasion. As long as the rockets go out and Israel responds, you have all the ingredients for exactly that, and I've seen it before here in Gaza. Ground incursions can be very bloody -- Miguel.
MARQUEZ: Ben, you've been there so many times. Hang in there. Hope you and your crew are safe and hope it doesn't get any worse. We will be talking to you later, thanks.
Now coming up, we are talking about several cases that raise difficult question about human nature. Across the country, multiple parents arrested after leaving children in hot cars while they shop, gamble, or even get drunk in a bar. Why does this keep happening?
Plus, we are looking at some of these child-free websites. Justin Ross Harris is accused of searching. What we found is shocking, disturbing, whatever you want to call it that, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARQUEZ: Well, summer temperatures reach their peaks across the U.S., you're reminded how hot it gets inside cars. For 22-month-old Cooper Harris, that summer heat was deadly, with the nation still transfixed by his case, we are learning new details about the boy's parents and how prosecutors are building their case.
Investigators want to know how high the temperature climbed in the back seat where the toddler died so they re-created that heat in Justin Ross Harris' SUV. They drove it to the same spot where it sat in the sun for seven hours on June 18th. That data has not been released but experts believe temperatures could have been as high as 140 degrees.
A home depot spokesperson says Harris has also been fired. He worked as a web designer for the company. Investigators have also unearthed uncomfortable details in Harris' online activities. They say he performed internet searches on child deaths in hot cars.
Want to bring in a panel of experts for this hour. HLN host Jane Velez-Mitchell, clinical and forensic psychologist Judy Ho, and criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor Philip Holloway.
Philip, we visited these websites and material. It is disturbing to say the very, very least. What do we know about Harris' connections s to these sites?
PHILIP HOLLOWAY, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: What we know is what was released at the preliminary hearing a couple weeks ago at a courtroom in Cobb County. What police have told us is that they have uncovered evidence he at least visited those sites.
What we don't know yet and whether or not his visiting those sites can be directly connected to the death of his child. If so, many observers have felt what that point to, is the prosecutors are painting a picture of premeditation, deliberation, and might be preparing to present an indictment to the Cobb County grand jury charging him with malice murder.
MARQUEZ: Well, interesting.
Jane, you know, what could Harris learn from visiting these particular sites?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HLN HOST, JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, listen, it paints a portrait, Miguel. It's not just one site. It's not just the fact that he researched how long it takes a child to die in a hot car and child-free lifestyle. He went to site where is they inundate the viewer with video of people dying -- execution, suicides, war. Why was he obsessed with this? Why five days before his own son dies in a hot car does he watch a video of a vet who goes into a hot car to try to warn people don't leave your animals in a hot car?
The whole thing paints a portrait. Then you talk about his alternate lifestyle personas on scout and kick where one name is R.J., the other name is Rosco (ph). He's lying about his age. He is lying about where he lives. Ironically, he doesn't lie about the fact that he's married. He states flat out that he is married. This -- some of these photos he looks totally different, when he is the father and husband, he looks one way and take a look at him there. He's trying to look like James Bond there. It is a totally -- this is taken in a urinal.
MARQUEZ: Judy, look, one does not want to believe that this is possible, that humans could do this to another human, let alone your own child, but what does the evidence so far tell you?
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Miguel, I think it paints a portrait of somebody who's really not happy with their life, maybe overwhelmed with the duties of being a father and sees no other way out.
Now, we know that the father and his wife actually had a very good reputation around the neighborhood, very, very religious. But that also puts a stopgap in terms of where they can really go in terms of admitting they're having problems in their marriage and not being able to carry through with this child. You know, I think a lot of people in the aftermath have asked why
don't they just put this child up for adoption or if they're not happy, aren't there other ways. But, I don't think they felt there were other ways, at least Justin didn't. Because he feels he needs to uphold his good reputation. And if off broken marriage because of fact that your child died and you couldn't withstand that pressure, then that's a better story than, you know what, we just didn't want this child, we changed our minds, we don't even want to be married.
And so, it's really, really hard. And what we know from research is father who is kill their children are often overwhelmed about their lives and don't want to have the children anymore and it tends to be intentional.
MARQUEZ: Well, it's hard to believe. But Philip, you seem to think that they're lining it up for harder and more substantial charges to come down the road. I take that it means a more substantial penalty.
HOLLOWAY: Well, what they've said was right now they're proceeding on the theory that it was at a minimum criminally negligent for him to have left his child in that car under those circumstances.
Nevertheless, the detective said at the preliminary hearing that it's looking at least to him like this might be intentional. If so, that points to premeditation and deliberation. And that's why we saw them I think out there looking into the precise conditions under which this child died in the heat of that car. Because under Georgia law, if a murder is committed under such circumstances that it's sufficiently wanton, vile, torturous, things of that nature, it can elevate it to potentially a death penalty case. So that is why they're so very, very interested in exactly how the child died and under what circumstances.
MARQUEZ: Jane, you pored over this case, every detail of it. It is circumstantial at the moment, largely circumstantial, although damning in circumstantial and it's only really the prosecution's side. But can we say there was a case for death here.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. If indeed he planned this and let his child die a torturous death in a hot car, there's no better argument for the death penalty.
MARQUEZ: That's what you're seeing so far.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Look. Let's take a look at some of the basic facts. When he left the chick-fil-a after having breakfast with his child, he had to make a decision in 30 to 40 seconds which direction to go to go to the daycare or to his office. So, are we to believe that in 30 to 40 seconds he forgets the child he had just strapped into his car? By the way, he strapped him in too tight and he strapped him into a car seat that was too small for him even though they had another car seat, then a very quick drive to the office. Get this, at 1:30 in the afternoon there's a mass e-mail from the daycare. That doesn't wake him up to the fact; I left my child in the car? Gets into the car at the end of the day, doesn't smell the stench of decomposition, the overwhelming smell of death? I know he is going to say he has a bad sense of smell, but --.
MARQUEZ: It doesn't seem possible. Jane, Judy, and Philip, thank you very for joining us.
Justin Ross Harris has been criticized for what seems like a lack of emotion in the courtroom and CNN's John Walsh says that should tell everyone something is up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN WALSH, THE HUNT WITH JOHN WALSH: You're talking to the guy who is the father of a murdered child. My son was 6-year-old when he was kidnapped in South Florida and murdered. I know how my acted. I almost went crazy. I lost 30 pounds. I'm not a big guy. I could not deal with the grief.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: But Justin Ross Harris isn't the only one being criticized for lack of emotion. The court of public opinion looking at the mom too, should we be judging her? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARQUEZ: As more disturbing details about the father of the Georgia toddler who died in a hot car, PayPal says it will give refunds to everyone who donated to a fundraiser for the family. And the site that hosts the campaign has taken it down, much the focus in the wake of the death of little Cooper Harris has revolved around his mother, Leanna Harris and whether she could also face charges. She's not been named as a suspect in the case, but did hire a defense attorney this week.
Even though many people say there's something suspicious about her, one CNN commentator says she should not be scrutinized by police but not indicted by the public before the facts come out.
I want to bring the panel back.
Judy, we've seen her behavior in court and in public. Are we being too critical?
HO: Well, I think obviously the attention is on her for a good reason. People are wondering whether or not she was involved and possibly if she was also premeditating along with her husband. And of course, we're all playing armchair quarterback here. But what we do know about the process of grief is that while it's
different far lot of individuals, it really takes a long time to get to the state of acceptance. And what I think is really, really strange about her behavior is that at the funeral she had already reached acceptance with her baby. In fact, she was saying she would never want the baby back even if there was a chance to do so because she doesn't want her baby to live through the tough adolescent years being in this broken world and that she's not at all angry with the father and that if they have children again she has complete trust in him. That is very bizarre behavior for someone to say that and to concentrate on themselves so much at the funeral where they're supposed to be honoring their baby.
MARQUEZ: It doesn't seem right.
Jane, there are other takes on this. I'm going to read a quote from CNN commentator and legal analyst Mel Robins taking Leanna Harris' side. Her baby is dead, her husband in jail for murder, her husband was also sexting with several women, she writes. Her marital and financial troubles have been exposed for the world to see. The world media is parked at her door and filming her every move. How is she supposed to act in the wake of that avalanche? Lord only knows, I'm sure, she's a hot mess of rage, fear, grief, shock, and everything in between."
Jane, what do you say to that?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, I have compassion for her. But I also feel that it's our responsibility as journalists to advocate for a dead child who cannot speak for himself, who was left in a hot car to die a torturous death.
And frankly, she didn't seem to be advocating for him at the funeral, saying would I bring him back into this world? No. Did it occur to me to be angry at my husband? Absolutely not.
So I think she's brought some of this criticism on herself with some of these, frankly, outrageous comments at the funeral and then some of the bizarre comments that prosecutors and detectives say she made, for example, when she gets to the daycare before she purportedly knows her son is dead and says essentially well, Ross must have left him in the car. That obviously without psychic powers leads one to wonder how does she jump to that conclusion so quickly. And then, when she asks her husband, did you say too much when they're reunited at the police station and then he turns around to her and says, I dreaded how he would look, past tense.
What does all that mean? I'm not convicting her. She hasn't been charged with anything. She's not being called a suspect. But we have a right to ask questions.
MARQUEZ: Phillip, on, that we know that some of her online activity were also suspicious. Should police be looking at her? And why didn't they just name her as a suspect or possible suspect?
HOLLOWAY: They're playing their cards very close to the vest. Most people I think who have followed this case very closely are quite clear on the fact that she is being looked at and she is being looked at very closely.
Jane is correct, and a lot of people have noticed that she invited a lot of this attention to herself by a lot of these comments that have certainly raised eyebrows to say the least. On the one hand, at the funeral, she said she would not bring back Cooper if she could, yet he said she would also have another child with Ross if possible. So she made a decision, a conscious choice to go to that funeral and say those things. Now, let's talk about her having a lawyer for just a minute. Let's be
careful and not read a whole lot into that. I've had people hire me who were simply under investigation and who were never charged, and they hired a lawyer if for no other reason than to find out more about the process, to have someone who's a professional, to guide them through the ups and downs of the process to help understand it. So we can't really infer anything one way or the other into the fact that she's hired herself a good lawyer.
MARQUEZ: All right. Philip, thanks very much. We are going to leave it right there for now, but we are coming right back up.
Coming up, the laser focus on the case of Cooper Harris has not kept caregivers from leaving their kids inside hot cars. Two dozen kids have been rescued from hot cars in the last three weeks. Two others were not so lucky. And in most of the cases, the adults involved were either shopping, gambling, or drinking. The details next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARQUEZ: The numbers are staggering. Already this year, 16 cases have lost their lives in the suffocating heat of a hot car. And just since little Cooper Harries died, June 18th, in a hot car in Suburban, Atlanta, another 26 kids have been left in hot cars, two met the same fate as Cooper. And the worst part in the majority of these cases the adults were shopping, drinking, or gambling.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ (voice-over): It's happened again, this time El Paso, Texas.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: With reference to the 911 unknown problem.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I have an issue, a 2-year-old female.
MARQUEZ: A 2-year-old left in the parking lot of family's home, reports the child left to suffocate overnight. Autopsy being conducted on the little girl before possible criminal charges filed. And it keeps happening.
At least 20 incidents involving 26 children, two died raising the number of children killed from heat stroke this year to 16. All of these cases in the few short weeks since most of the nation was laser focused in the sickening case of 22-month-old Cooper Harris in Georgia. The child left by his father, Justin Ross Harris, who spent the day working at home depot, having lunch with friends and sexting women, all while his son spent seven hours strapped into the car seat, scratches to his face, abrasions on the back of his head, the child apparently struggling to survive the heat.
Joseph Scott Morgan is a forensic scholar and former investigator.
JOSEPH SCOTT MORGAN, FORENSIC SCHOLAR/FORMER INVESTIGATOR: You still have a child that's strapped in a car that's exposed to extreme heat, that I can assure you no adult would be able to endure. I certainly couldn't endure it. MARQUEZ: Cars can heat up very quickly even in cooler temperatures.
It's 91 outside. Inside, only been in here about 10 or 15 minute, it is 108 degrees. I can tell you I'm sweating through my shirts already. I'm sweating just about everywhere. These cars can go from uncomfortable to deadly very fast. And then there's this case out of Washington, D.C.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did you leave her in a car?
MARQUEZ: 29-year-old (INAUDIBLE) Teresa charged with abandoning her severely disabled mother in a car on a day when temperatures rose to 95 degrees. Police found and rescued her after she was trapped in the vehicle for 16 hours. Police say she suffered from severe dehydration and was sitting in her own urine and feces.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why was she covered in urine and feces? Can you tell us what happened?
MARQUEZ: As unimaginable as leaving a child or anyone in a car seems, experts say there will be more cases as temperatures across the country continue to rise.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
MARQUEZ: I'm going to continue talking to our panel here. Tennessee has become just the first state to legislate that forcible entry can be used if the person that discovers the child locked in the car has already called 911 and sees no other way to free that child.
Philip, that's all well and good for Tennessee, but it sounds like we need laws on the books to police up common sense. Is that even possible?
HOLLOWAY: It's very difficult to legislation the police sub-common sense. That law in Tennessee is fine and good. I don't really think it's necessary because in an emergency you can do pretty much anything you need to do to save somebody's life. I don't really care how many windows need to be broken out or how many doors need to be forced open. If you see a person or an animal or something like that in a car and there's no other way to get to that child, there is no jury in the world that's going to convict you of a crime if you bust out the window to save a life.
MARQUEZ: It is completely ridiculous that we even need laws like this.
Jane, only 19 states have a law against leaving a minor in a hot car according to the nonprofit kidsandcars.org. We know that there are of the few that we see. There are thousands of cases where people leave kids in cars very briefly, just running inside to do something. Should there be a federal law?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Here is the solution that I see. And I think that this crisis with little Cooper and these other children is an opportunity to come up with a new technology. They already have technologies that can prevent accidents, sensors. Why not create a sensor and require it by law in every car that sets off an alarm to 911 or other first responders whenever there's a living being, an animal or child, in a car and that car hits a temperature of a certain degree. I'm sure that there is the ability to create that technology and right now we should be --
MARQUEZ: It's like -- how could you forget your kid?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But people do. And if there is -- you know, we can track a FedEx package from coast to coast, we should be able to create a technology that saves lives and mandate that every single car in America had that technology inside.
MARQUEZ: Judy, Justin Harris insists he forgot about his son, Cooper, and he's pleaded not guilty, of course. Is it even possible -- we know parents are taxed. We know there's everything that grabs a bit of our attention all day long. But is it possible to forget your kid is back there even for a few minutes?
HO: Well, Miguel, it is possible. What we know from the research is that actually 55 percent of children who are left in hot cars, it is unintentional. And only about 12 percent are intentionally left.
But it's a way bigger problem I think than people realize because we have about 36 children dying per year for the last 16 years based on the research, and that doesn't even include the ones that just got left there and got injured or sick from it.
These are 36 that die a year. And every month except for r January it happens. So it's not just the hot months either. So I think Justin was trying to kind of use something that is actually kind of common. People do leave their kids in cars unintentionally. But of course, with him there's just too many things, there is this huge bread crumbs where you just know that this is probably not just an accident.
MARQUEZ: And despite, Philip, the amount of attention that we are giving this summer, the numbers for the deaths at least is not particularly high given previous years. Last year, I believe there were 34 deaths, the year before 44, I believe.
Does there need to be -- it's good that we're focusing on it, and does there need to be a law that says, we just don't allow kids to stay in cars at all? Parents, if you leave your kid in a car even a minute that's a crime?
HOLLOWAY: My personal opinion is that we don't need to necessarily have these knee-jerk reactions to over-legislate commonsense things. It is already against the law I know in Georgia to create a condition that can potentially lead to the harm or even death of a child, reckless conduct, anything like that could actually fit the circumstances. It's very, very dangerous when you pass laws that are absolute that say there are no exceptions under any circumstances.
I get the point. We don't need to leave children in cars. It's absolutely imperative that we educate the public. And I think going to what Jane said, I think perhaps technology might be the way to go. I don't know that I feel so strongly about absolute laws. MARQUEZ: All right. Thank you all. Stay right where you are.
So where is the line? Are we as a society being too sensitive? We'll discuss after.
Plus, my next guest says if you see a child in a car don't call 911. She'll explain.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARQUEZ: All right, with all these awful news about children being left in the hot cars. You might think it's illegal to leave a minor in a dangerous spot, in the first place. However, only 19 states have law against it. But there are actually more cases or are we simply more aware of it?
Let me bring back our panel and welcome author and syndicated columnist Lenore Skenazy.
Lenore, you say calling 911 to report a child locked in a car is lunacy. Why?
LENORE SKENAZY, AUTHOR/SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: I say that if you see a child in a car and you're worried about them and the parent isn't waving to you from where they're picking up the dry cleaning or the pizza parlor, where they are picking up the pizza, stand by the car and wait for the parent to come. If you dial 911, things like this happen.
This week -- actually last week now, a mom asked her 11-year-old could she come into the store with her. The 11-year-old said, no mom, I want to wait here. The mom went into the store and she came back out. The 11-year-old, obviously, was fine except that a cop was standing there and he arrested the mother for leaving a minor in a car.
Now, we all know that an 11-year-old in car is perfectly safe. If she gets hot, she opens the door. If she gets bored, she calls someone on her phone or plays a game. And when you start becoming -- getting the police involved (INAUDIBLE) which were safe and logical parenting decision, decisions that our own parents made to let us wait in the car while they picked up the prescription or the pizza, then you suddenly have parents being investigated by child protective services. They have the threat of their kids being taken away from them even though all they were doing something our parents did which letting us wait out a short errand. I'm not talking about a parent forgetting a child in a car all day long or, as you were talking about for the last half hour, deliberately leaving a child in a car.
MARQUEZ: Well, this has become part of the national conversation now, hasn't it? Everybody talking about, when I was a kid, my parents left us in the car all the time.
And Jane, you know, this stuff happened when we were kids all the time. Should people be prosecuted for it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, when I was a kid, my dad would drive with me on his lap without a seat belt at 90 miles an hour. Doesn't mean it's a great idea.
MARQUEZ: What kind of car did he have?
SKENAZY: But letting a child --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You're talking about a perfect world, but I'd rather make a dozen mistakes than let one child die in a hot car. And obviously, this is not some wild aberration since we're talking about it since it's happening all over the country unfortunately, and people do unfortunately do forget their kids.
SKENAZY: I agree forget --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: But if you see something, say something.
SKENAZY: I think it's great to be aware of this issue. It's wonderful. And I also think it's great to stand by a car and wait for a parent and make sure they didn't forget the kid. Generally, if you're --
MARQUEZ: Sensible advice.
But Philip, can we become too quick and over focus on these cases, can we become too quick to start charging and casting aspersions?
HOLLOWAY: It is possible to do that. I can tell you a personal story of my own. When I was 4-years-old, my mother went to town to go shopping and I didn't want her to leave without me so I snuck into the station wagon and I hid behind the seat in the hot July sun in south Georgia for over 40 minutes while my mother went in there to shop. Needless to say, she was absolutely mortified, petrified, scared to death when she found me almost in hypothermia. And a few minutes longer I may not be sitting here to talk to you today and I would have hated for my mother to be investigated and prosecuted for something under those circumstances.
MARQUEZ: I love this has become confessional hour. That was a very good story there, Philip. Thank you very much. And therefore you became a lawyer.
Yes, Judy.
SKENAZY: Can I point out that while it was a horrifying thing that happened, here you have a kid in Georgia in the hot sun 45 minutes and nobody would ever do this deliberately but 45 minutes in the hot sun, the children who are dying are left there not during a short errand, not while picking up the chicken for dinner.
MARQUEZ: No, of course. Or even if the intention is it's meant to be short then it's not.
But Judy, do we have to cut parents some more slack? We are overstressed these days, yes?
HO: Parents are definitely overstressed. And unfortunately, you know, we don't get a manual on how to be parents really. I mean, yes, there's guidebooks out there and what not. But most parents don't even utilize that. And sometimes people think you'll just going to get it intuitively when off child and know what to do.
Well, most parents don't. And we don't require parenting classes. We only require them for people who are adopting. And so, this is tough because common sense is just really not always the case for most parents. And parents are stressed and they don't know what they're doing half the time. They don't know if they're doing something that will expose their child to something dangerous. There can be just completely unintentional, just making a mistake here.
So what do we do with that? I don't think we should over-legislate. But I do think that when we have cases like this that happen, the parents need to be investigated and be given resources. And not just punished because that doesn't make us better parents. That just makes the world where people are in jail and then the kids are away from their own parents and away from their family. So that doesn't help either.
MARQUEZ: All right, Lenore, bring it around for us here. Where is the line?
SKENAZY: The line is that I think parents do know the real world. They were children and now they're adults. They know what a hot car is. They know they shouldn't leave their kids in there for a long time. And if they know they're making a rational decision to let their kid wait while they pick up the pizza or the dry cleaning. There's no reason to make a law against them, no reason to get the cops involved. There is no reason to take their children away. I don't think there should be a law. I think Good Samaritans should stand by the car and wait for the parent to come back. That takes a village.
MARQUEZ: All right. And Philip, I mean, other than your very moving personal story, I take it you do not believe that we need sort of a federal law or some way to, you know, up the ante against parents who leave kids, especially, you know, younger kids or older kids in the car.
HOLLOWAY: I think the states are more than capable of coming up with their own solutions. I think that what you have to look at is what is reasonable under the totality of the circumstances.
You know, if you have a child who's in the back seat, maybe taking a nap or asleep in their car seat and you pull into your garage and you need to take a few things into the kitchen before you wake up your child to take them inside, that's not necessarily unreasonable in the totality of the circumstances.
So if you have a law that says it's against the law to do that even for an instant that would not make sense. Laws need to make common sense. They need to be rational the way that they are applied in real life. And so, I don't think anything like a federal law necessarily is in order but I think states are more than capable of creating reasonable solutions under their own laws.
MARQUEZ: It's the Philip always let a sleeping baby lie law. Thank you very much. Very sensible, I think.
All right, coming up, a mother abandons her baby on a subway platform and continues on with her commute like nothing happened. Why John Walsh applauds her?
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARQUEZ: Well, there is no question it's been a tough week for children and as we heard about several disturbing cases about kids, take the case of a 7-month-old baby left on a subway platform here in New York this week. The woman who found the little girl told HLN's Dr. Drew she could see the child's mother inside the train looking out at them as the train pulled away.
Or the case of a 12-year-old Detroit boy who was found barricaded inside his father's basement forced to do 100 push-ups, 200 sit-ups and 100 jumping jacks each day. He was basically tortured. He told the FBI, he has been punched by his stepmother who said I can quote "make you disappear."
Let's talk about all these cases with our panel now. They're back with us.
Jane, what is going on with people these days? I mean, these are children we're talking about. Is this competition among parents or what?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: It's horrifying. Take the case of the Detroit boy. Now, he was hit by his father's own admission. He was disciplined with a PVC pipe, are you kidding me? We actually went and felt a PVC pipe. You even tap yourself with it, it is going to hurt. He had scars on his body.
Now, in the dad's mind, purportedly allegedly he regarded this as discipline. He regarded making him do an extraordinary amount of exercise that even the most fit adult probably couldn't do on a regular basis every day or he'd have to do it again if he didn't get it done in a certain period of time.
What's really interesting about it is the dad is not in shape. It's almost as if he's living through his child like some kind of stage mother, do this, do that. And you know, sometimes when men feel helpless in their own lives they become dictators in their own household and I think that's what's happening there. They're the parents. They're the ones that should be exercising. That's the stepmother there, I believe. So take a look at them. They're making him do extraordinary exercise when they should be doing some jumping jacks themselves.
MARQUEZ: Crazy.
Judy, the new CNN host John Walsh, he commends the mother who left her child on a subway platform. Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) WALSH: I never, ever got a parenting class when I was in grade school, middle school, high school, college. We don't teach people how to be good parents. I applaud the lady who left the child on the subway. In Florida, we have a law, if you don't want your child, you can leave your child at the fire house. Not kill your child. Not to let them roast to death in a car because you are sick of having a child and it's an encumberment (ph) or do remember Susan Smith who drove into the water and killed two of her children. So, I applaud that woman. But I don't think people are good parents. I really don't think we as a nation teach people how to parent.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MARQUEZ: Judy, do you agree?
HO: Well, I definitely agree that our nation does not teach people how to parent. We don't have a program. As I mentioned in the last block, this is just not happening for us and some parents just really don't know what to do. And thank goodness that this child wasn't murdered in some way.
But, of course, there's a better way to handle this than leave your child in a public place like that. Although, I can see the mother's reasoning if she was trying to make sure the child was found by somebody because it's in a public place.
I'm really disturbed, though, by you know, what we were just talking about, you know, when you and Jane were commenting on the boy who was basically being punished all the time by the father and the stepmother.
The stepmother was saying things to him, vague threats like, I know how to make you disappear. I know where the sharp knives are. But the child has no way of knowing when the mother's going to act on that. And what it does psychological to an individual, to a child, is that they're in a perpetual state of anxiety always feeling like they're in danger. It is like the fight or flight syndrome but always in flight and that contributes to long-term PTSD.
MARQUEZ: Phillip, the cases are shocking to say the least. You can't -- you can't legislate against bad parenting I suppose. But is there something that can be done at the local or at the state or at the federal level to change behavior in some way?
HOLLOWAY: You can't legislate against stupidity either. You know, with the situation with the lady in the subway, obviously it doesn't seem that she had any had intention to harm her child, but she did put her child in harm's way. A subway station in New York City is no place for a baby to be left unattended. There's all sorts of sexual predators out there. There's people that would harm the child. Anything could have happened to that child. So, yes, I think she should be prosecuted if those allegations are true.
You compare that to the situation in Detroit. If what the little boy is telling the authorities turns out to be true, that's just sadistic. You know, that's not anything that you can legislate against. MARQUEZ: Yes.
HOLLOWAY: No law in the world is going to prevent someone from being a sadist or sociopath or a psychopath who feels no empathy for other human beings, let alone their children.
MARQUEZ: All right.
Jane, any last thoughts before we wrap it up here?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, if you can't handle the responsibility, don't have children. It's a huge, huge decision and it shouldn't be taken lightly.
MARQUEZ: All right.
And Judy, anything else from you?
HO: I just want to know whether or not, you know, we're going to be able to actually get through to some of these parents, you know, as we were just discussing, you can't make somebody a better person. But we also can't prevent them from having children.
People are going to have children. Sometimes they're accidents and they just go through with it. And I really am at a loss here in terms of what can we do. Because we have some things in place when a parent wants to adopt and those are great programs. But we don't have that for natural birth parents.
So I'm not sure how we can resolve this. But people who shouldn't be having children are continuing to have them all the time and they're probably not watching this show and hearing what we say right now.
MARQUEZ: All right, thanks very much. Philip, I have to leave it there but thank you.
Philip, Jane, Judy, Thanks very much to you all.
And don't forget to check out CNN's new show, "the HUNT" with John Walsh. It premieres tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m. eastern.
We can't end our show on such down note, though. Coming up stories that prove there are still a lot of people out there who do a lot of good. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
MARQUEZ: Now to something a little more uplifting.
CNN hero John Burns who turning the passion of world cup soccer fans into help for children in poor areas of the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(CHANTING)
JON BURNS, CNN HERO: The atmosphere at World Cup is like nothing else. It's electric.
(SHOUTING)
BURNS: You get that kaleidoscope of the different nations that all come together.
(CHEERING)
BURNS: Football is the only worldwide sport really. In 2004, I was sitting there full steady. I suddenly saw all the fans around. It was like a little army.
Some of the children that love football the most, they're in very poor areas. And I started to ask myself, what could we do if we could mobilize some of the people to do some good? So Lionsraw, we bring people to the World Cup. They get to watch the games but, for a huge chunk of our time, we find local charities that are working with children and how can we help you?
That is going to be three classrooms to come and do this for us, for the children, this is a World Cup spirit.
In Brazil, we've got about three volunteers here, from about 12 countries. Within a couple of days of being part of the team, we're working really hard.
(SHOUTING)
BURNS: When we invest in the players, it's for the long term. Lots of guys come in and get it in their blood. That's what I'm about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is my second go. This time my son's come with me. A bit of bonding and just building things together.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know you're knackered every morning and tired out, but look how far we've come in a week. It's fantastic.
Football has always had the ability to break down barriers but we're taking it a step further to try to harness the passion in football fans to make a difference.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
