Return to Transcripts main page

ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT

Egypt Proposes Possible Ceasefire; Israel: Nearly 1,000 Rockets Fired From Gaza; First Wave of Immigrants Deported; Boeing Announces More People to Fit in 737 Jet; Holder: "Racial Animus" Fuels Opposition to Obama

Aired July 14, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Next breaking news, a possible ceasefire in the Middle East. Is it a nonstarter?

Plus does criticism equal racism? Attorney General Eric Holder says a lot of the opposition to the president of the United States is because he is black.

And say goodbye to your leg room because there was so much of it anyway. How a major plane maker plans to cram even more seats into its jets. Let's go OUTFRONT.

Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. OUTFRONT tonight breaking news, a possible ceasefire in the works tonight to stop the bloodshed in the Middle East. Israel's security cabinet set to meet in a few hours to review a proposal put forward by Egypt that would end the fighting with Hamas. Israeli officials say the proposal is being taken very seriously, but as for Hamas, not so much.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OSAMA HAMDAN, HAMAS SPOKESMAN: I don't believe that this is a political thing to be done. It's close to be a joke.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: A joke. Well, U.S. officials tell CNN that the Secretary of State John Kerry is preparing a possible trip to the Middle East as well to try to be a part of brokering this deal. We'll have much more on this coming up with the former Israeli ambassador to the United States.

But first, I want to go straight to the ground. Reports tonight from both sides of the conflict. As you can see, Wolf Blitzer is in Jerusalem, Ben Wedeman is in Gaza City tonight. Wolf, I want to start with you. What's been the reaction there to the news of a possible ceasefire?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SITUATION ROOM": I think the Israelis are welcoming the news. They're going to meet, as you point out, in special session, the security cabinet. They're going to meet first thing as you correctly also point out within the next few hours, first thing Tuesday morning Israel time. They're going to review it. I think they like what they're seeing so far. The Palestinian Authority likes what they're seeing. Hamas not so much. This has been a pretty dramatic day, but there's a little bit of light now at the end of this tunnel.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER (voice-over): Tonight, a steady pounding on both sides of the border. I was waiting in a sealed border checkpoint with our crew when we had to duck for cover.

(on camera): We just heard shots. We're not exactly sure what's going on, but you can see one Israeli soldier over there collapsed. Did we get the all clear? OK. A young Israeli woman soldier clearly was traumatized. She fell to the ground and started to cry. You don't often see that. Later she told me it's been really, really hard, especially on these young 18, 19-year-old soldiers who come here on the border and hear these rockets going off.

(voice-over): Israel now says about 1,000 rockets have been fired from Gaza. Some of them intercepted by Israel's iron dome defense system, including this one while we were in the border city. But another rocket made it through, damaging cars and this man's neighborhood.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And I heard very strong boom around here. Everything shook. Things in my house fell. I peeked from the door and I saw the dust going this way, so I understood it was very, very close by.

BLITZER: Hamas is showing off another weapon in its arsenal, claiming this video is of drones built by its military wing. Israel says it shot down a drone spotted along its coastline. Israeli forces massed at the Gaza border, and striking from the air, hammering what Israel calls terror targets, about 1500 strikes so far.

The Palestinian death toll is rising. This funeral for a father and son. U.N. officials say 70 percent of the dead in Gaza are civilians, including more than 30 children, and two women were killed when an Israeli air strike hit a center for the disabled. A U.N. agency says 17,000 refugees now are taking shelter in 20 schools in Gaza.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLITZER: And I think the Israeli cabinet, there will be divisions, Erin, within the Israeli cabinet between some who were more hard line than others. I suspect, though, the Israeli cabinet will come out tomorrow and accept this Egyptian proposal more or less. Then the burden will be on Hamas to go ahead and accept it as well to stop the fighting, stop the deaths. As you know, so many people have been killed in Gaza. So far in Israel, there have been injuries but no deaths.

BURNETT: All right, Wolf, thank you very much. As Wolf said, 70 percent of those killed on the Palestinian side have been civilians, more than 160 people killed. Ben Wedeman is in Gaza City tonight. Ben, the word out of Hamas that we heard is, quote/unquote, "close to a joke" in terms of a ceasefire.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, we heard from other Hamas spokesmen as well saying that simply they are not going to go for a ceasefire unless their conditions are met. Another spokesman saying that Hamas will have the final word regarding an end to hostilities.

So on the one hand, a negative response so far from Hamas. Among ordinary people here in Gaza, there was relief when word came out. Many people exhausted after now seven days of these constant air strikes. It's important to keep in mind that there are at least according to the United Nations 17,000 people who have fled the northern part of Gaza, having seen these leaflets dropped by the Israeli Air Force, demanding -- rather ordering them to leave.

They're holding up in schools and whatnot, conditions very bad. So people were really hoping that there would be an end to these hostilities, but it looks like Hamas is still holding out. The belief is that despite all the rockets they have fired into Israel, they still have nothing to show for it in terms of any sort of equivalent damage on the Israeli side to what has been inflicted upon Gaza -- Erin.

BURNETT: Ben, thank you very much. You know, earlier I spoke with the former Israeli ambassador to the United States, he's now a Middle Eastern analyst for us, Michael Oren, and I asked him if he thinks the ceasefire could hold despite Hamas calling it a joke.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHAEL OREN, CNN MIDEAST ANALYST: Well, a lot depends on what are the terms of the ceasefire. In contrast to past rounds of fighting between Israel and Hamas when the secretary of state, like Secretary of State Clinton came to this area and shuttled back and forth and worked out every detail of a mediation of a ceasefire agreement, this time the Egyptians are announcing in advance there's going to be a ceasefire and then negotiations are going to begin.

There are reports in another 48 hours the Egyptians will invite to Cairo, Israeli representatives, American representatives, perhaps representatives of other Arab states and the Palestinians to sit and work out this arrangement. It seems rather doubtful. Israelis, I can tell you, are very opposed to going back to the situation that existed prior to this round of fighting, which enabled Hamas to build up a huge arsenal under the cover of a ceasefire.

BURNETT: The United Nations says 70 percent of the fatalities in this latest conflict, Ambassador, in Gaza have been civilians. Palestinians say 185 Palestinians have been killed in a week because of Israeli air strikes. More than 30 of those were children. There haven't been fatalities on the Israeli side. Do Israel's tactics concern you when you see those statistics?

OREN: Well, they concern me as a citizen of the state of Israel, not a spokesman for its government anymore. But insofar as it poses a diplomatic challenge, a humanitarian challenge to the state of Israel. But I don't think Israelis are going to regret the fact that fatality rates or casualty rates aren't higher on the Israeli side and certainly not going to apologize for not having more fatalities on the Israeli side.

The fact of the matter is Israel has invested hundreds of millions of dollars in defense, both civil defense and anti-missile defense, whereas Hamas has invested all of its money in offensive missiles and invested absolutely nothing in civil defense.

BURNETT: But does that justify, though, the fact that women and children have lost their lives?

OREN: Any death in a battlefield of an innocent civilian, whether Palestinian or Israeli, is regrettable. But Israel is a country that is being hit now over the course of one week by roughly a thousand rockets. Most of the Israeli population has had to run to bomb shelters repeatedly. I have had to run to a bomb shelter even today in my Tel Aviv home.

Our houses have bomb shelters. So any country, if 250 million Americans were under rocket fire, even if none of them were being killed, the American government would respond in any way it had to. You're dealing with an enemy in the form of Hamas who hides beneath a civilian population.

Notice very few Hamas commanders have been killed. Where are they? They're underground hiding beneath the civilians. So it's a huge ethical and military challenge for Israel.

BURNETT: Now "The Wall Street Journal" has cited U.S. security analysts. And the quote is the "breadth of global instability now unfold has not been seen since the late 1970s." Republican Senator John McCain here in the U.S. and other critics blame President Obama for this. Here's John McCain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOHN MCCAIN (R), ARIZONA: I do believe that the things we're seeing in the world today in greater turmoil than in any time in my lifetime is a direct result of an absence of American leadership.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Does the U.S. have a leadership problem?

OREN: I think the American people have to answer the question what role they want to play in the world today. My experience of being ambassador from Israel for the last nearly five years was that this is not necessarily about the position of one leader, whether it be the president of the United States or Senator McCain. American people are tired after two very traumatic and long wars in the Middle East, prolonged economic crisis.

And I know from that experience last summer when there's a question of whether America was going to respond to the chemical use -- the use of chemical weapons by the Syrian regime by firing rockets into Damascus, when President Obama suggested that, the phone calls against using American force in Syria was something between either 100 against to 1 in favor or 600 against to 1 in favor in both Houses of Congress and in both parties.

So it's really about where the American people are and the decisions they have to make about their leadership role in the world.

BURNETT: Thank you very much, Ambassador. We appreciate your time, as always.

OREN: Always good to be with you, Erin.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BURNETT: OUTFRONT next, America's most famous undocumented immigrant live from the U.S. Texas border tonight. Border security is surrounding him. Will he get deported?

Plus a high-end call girl linked to a Google executive's death is about to be formally charged. Tonight, we'll hear from some of the people who know her best.

And the selfie everyone is talking about. The teen behind this picture tells us how he was able to land Sir Paul and Warren Buffett.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: And now to our coverage of the border crisis.

A surge of undocumented immigrants coming into this country, tens of thousands of them, many children fleeing from conditions that are so horrific it is worth risking death to come to the United States.

Tonight, the first wave of those immigrants, though, deported. Dozens of adults and children held at a facility in New Mexico were returned to Honduras. And the department of homeland security says more deportations are coming quickly.

OUTFRONT tonight, Pulitzer-prize winning journalist Jose Antonio Vargas. He outed himself as an undocumented immigrant in "The New York Times" magazine in 2011. He's also the director of the film "Documented" which premiered on CNN last month. And tonight he's in McAllen, Texas, along with others who are undocumented immigrants.

And good to talk to you tonight, Jose Antonio. Let me ask you first, you've been meeting with some of these children that have been fleeing these horrific situations. What have you seen in terms of how they're being treated and what their situation is like?

JOSE ANTONIO VARGAS, DIRECTOR, DOCUMENTED: Well, first of all, you know, we came out here. I mean I came out here last Thursday to stand in solidarity with all these children, right? I mean, this is a humanitarian crisis that everybody, including Governor Perry, has been politicizing.

And you know, there isn't enough about humanity that we should be talking about. And having met some of these kids, I dare any congressional member, the president to look in the eyes of these children and tell them that they're going to be sent back. I dare them to look in the eyes of these children. Once you see them, how can you send them back?

BURNETT: And maybe that's part of the reason the president doesn't want to go to the border. I mean, but do you think that then the answer is to keep all of these kids who don't have anyone to take care of them? I mean, is that the solution?

VARGAS: We are not a country -- America is not a country that turns its back on children. That's not who we are as a country. You know, and I don't want to bring race into this, but if these were white kids would we be doing this to the kids, right?

And here's my question to the Congress. Is this Congress really prepared to be the only piece of legislation that they pass is legislation that deports kids? Is that the only legislation they're going to pass?

BURNETT: So what should they do then?

VARGAS: Well, I think there's got to be a process in which we listen to the stories of these kids. And you know, to me, the story that no one is talking about is the generosity of people here in McAllen. We're standing near the shelter here. The generosity of people all across Texas and all across the country that want to take these children in.

And I have to tell you, Erin, so when I got here last Thursday, I've never been to the Texas border so I never realized what it's like to be undocumented here in Texas at the border. And I met a woman named Tanya Chavez. I mean, when I got here, she said to me how are you going to get out? And I'm like what are you talking about? Because Tanya, you've been trapped here since you were how old?

TANYA CHAVEZ, UNDOCUMENTED IMMIGRANT: I was 14 years old when I came into the United States and ever since I've been confined to the boundaries of what the border looks like of what the Rio Grande valley is like. On the south side, we have international bridges and on the north side we have the checkpoints. And there were several checkpoints and you can't be --.

VARGAS: You can't get out. So all these people standing next to us, they have been confined to that checkpoint, right, and people don't know that. I don't think Governor Perry even realizes that. Am I right, Tanya?

CHAVEZ: Yes. One thing I want to ask President Obama is that there are still many undocumented individuals in the Rio Grande Valley that I think we deserve the attention that he hasn't given us for many, many years.

When they arrive, there are pieces of legislation, they never take into account. The undocumented immigrants confined to the boundaries of the checkpoint. This, we are segregated from an entire nation. We can't go visit our family up north beyond the checkpoint even though we live in America. We live in the United States. I am an American but an undocumented American.

BURNETT: And you know, Tanya makes a very powerful case. But let me ask you again, because this is the question.

If the United States says we're going to let all these people go visit their families, many of them may not then return back to the border or take all of these kids, aren't you sending a message everybody can come? And that may not be realistic for this country to let everybody come in.

VARGAS: Well, the message -- Erin, we are a country of laws but also a country of morality, right? I think we have to figure out a way that we can humanely have a process to let people see their family. You know, it's really interesting being around here, right, looking at all the border security. This is a militarized zone. And I'm looking around this morning when I -- I went to the Starbucks to get coffee and there's border patrol agents everywhere. And I'm thinking they're here because of me. Are we a threat? Are we a national security threat? Are all these billions of dollars being spent on border security being spent because of us?

BURNETT: And what about your situation in particular? I mean, are you daring in a sense, Jose Antonio, people to arrest you and deport you? I mean, I would say they are not going to. You're a Pulitzer- prize winner. You have accomplished lot things. They are not going to waste their time on you. But is that your goal down there?

VARGAS: Well, but Erin why the double standard? When I outed myself my goal is to say I'm one of the 11 million people. I'm not asking for special treatment. I'm not asking for any double standard, the government is doing that. My fate is tied to everybody else in this exact same situation. And we've done way too much politicizing and not enough finding a solution on this issue. And the question here is how do you define American? That's the question.

BURNETT: That's a big question.

All right. Well, thank you very much, Jose Antonio. We appreciate you being here tonight. Jose Antonio Vargas on McAllen, Texas border.

VARGAS: Thanks for having us, thus.

BURNETT: And still to come, even less leg room on your next flight. Some planes are about to get even more seats because, you know, you had so much room to begin with they're going fit more seats in.

And harsh words for critics of the Obama administration. Attorney general Eric Holder says people that are criticizing the president, a lot of them are doing it because they're racist.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Here's some really nasty news for the next time you fly. Your precious amount of leg room may soon vanish, as if your knees don't already get banged up and bruised by sitting there. When the person leans back you didn't already have to smell their hair.

Boeing announcing to that it's about to cram more people into the 737 jet which is one of the most common ones you fly. It is a newer version of the bestselling planes. It is going to be fitted with 200 seats, 11 more than what's currently allowed. Let's just think about that, right? That's a couple more extra rows. And that's tonight's money and power.

Ben Mutzabaugh is the air travel reporter for "USA Today" and he is OUTFRONT.

Ben, I mean, I have to say it is already really unpleasant to fly on most of those planes. I mean, I'm being dead serious. When someone leans back it's become almost a -- you can't breathe. It's rude to even lean your seat back. The overhead bins, there's no space. You seriously think that it can fit 11 more seats/

BEN MUTZABAUGH, AIR TRAVEL REPORTER, USA TODAY: Well, I'll start with the good news.

BURNETT: Good, find it.

MUTZABAUGH: And maybe it's a silver lining. But Boeing is rolling out this product only for the ultra low cost, no frills carriers, and that's -- you know, in the United States, that's mostly airlines like Spirit and Frontier. Now, those airlines here fly airbus, so we're not going to see this plane at those airlines. We're not going to see it at Delta, we are not going to see it on American, at least not configured this way. We are not going to see it at United. So there is some good news in that front. But if you're flying right on Air in Europe or another discounter that uses the 737, they're going to love this plane.

BURNETT: I'm glad you're optimistic because the way I see it is it works for the low cost guys and United and Delta start sneaking them in there.

MUTZABAUGH: Well, they need to make their money in the first class cabin. So I'm sure they're not above possibly going into the back of the plane and trying to --. If they could find a way to add another row, they may in fact do it at some point.

BURNETT: They'll sneak it in there.

MUTZABAUGH: But it won't be the whole plane.

BURNETT: All right. Now, speaking of airbus, they're announcing a big competitor plane to Boeing, which of course is the biggest exporter from the United States. Boeing is the biggest U.S. company in many ways, but they say it's going to cut fuel consumption and compete with the Dreamliner, the 787. Is this going to take business away from Boeing?

MUTZABAUGH: I think it basically what it will do is that will maintain the status quo. And the reason that I say that is because it's technically a new model, but it's the a-330, which is currently airbus' model that's most directly competitive to the Dreamliner.

So what they're doing is they're going to make some aerodynamic tweaks to it. They are going to give it some new engines. And they are going to roll out what they called the a-330 NEO which stands for New Engine Option. So it will be more fuel efficient.

And basically what this will do, this will give it maybe about another decade, maybe two decades of life where they were going to have to stop production.

BURNETT: So Ben, before you go, there's this amazing story today that you can go, you know, to China in a couple of hours from the U.S. I mean, you fly up to 50,000 feet basically in space, get launched into the high atmosphere and then you just basically pop up and then you pop down and you could go 2500 miles an hour. I mean this is pretty incredible. You know, do you think this is going to happen? Because some engineers are saying this is real. You can get to Beijing in two hours.

MUTZABAUGH: It sounds amazing, right?

You know, and I talked to Richard Branson about this about a year and a half ago and he's one of the biggest pro opponents of this, obviously. He has got his space business to sell. I think it will eventually happen. I think a lot of the estimates that I've seen about when, including the perhaps the article that you are mentioning. I don't think that we'll see it soon but we will -- I'll say -- we may not see it before I retire, but I may see it before I die. How's that for a timeline.

BURNETT: You're a young guy so it's a long time.

MUTZABAUGH: Yes.

BURNETT: But, I mean, it is pretty incredible to imagine.

MUTZABAUGH: But it would work. It is in theory. But you know, they are not going to affect too. It is just -- imagine, once it becomes possible, you're still going to need the facilities to accommodate this. You're not going to be some rich dude or some rich lady buying a ticket to space and plopping down into the Pacific Ocean outside of Sydney. You are going to need facilities. So there is some work to do on this yet.

BURNETT: All right, Ben, thanks.

And still OUTFRONT, Barack Obama's top law enforcement official firing back at people who criticize the president, saying they oppose him because he's black.

Plus the prostitute linked to a Google executive's death about to be formally charged and some of the people who know her best are OUTFRONT tonight.

And richest selfie ever. How a teenager nabbed a photo of a billionaire, well, and a music legend billionaire. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: So is opposition to President Obama rooted in racism? That's what Attorney General Eric Holder suggested in an interview with ABC News.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: There's a certain level of vehemence, it seems to me, directed at me, directed at the president. You know, people talk about taking their country back. You know, I can't look into people's hearts, look into people's minds, but it seems to me that this president has been treated differently than others.

There's a certain racial component to this for some people. I don't think this is the thing that's a main driver, but for some, there's a racial animus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Joining me now, CNN legal analyst Sunny Hostin and conservative CNN political commentators Greg Anthony and Ben Ferguson.

All right. Sunny, let me start with you. The expression here, "take your country back", that's what the attorney general specifically referred to. Is that expression racist?

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think it can be, depending on the context, but we've heard it in all different contexts, right? But I think his main point was that there has been this level of vitriol, this level of aggression towards our president, towards the office, towards our attorney general that does have a racial component. Anyone that says that there hasn't been that racial component is simply naive.

Remember, this is the same president that they claimed was born in Kenya and was a Kenyan citizen, asking for his birth certificate, asking for his law school transcript, asking for his college grades. You know, Jan Brewer is waving her finger in his face. I mean, these are actions in my view that no question --

BURNETT: You don't think would have happened to a white president.

HOSTIN: Of course not, and they speak to the issue of race that we have in this country.

BURNETT: So, Greg, let me ask you about what Rush Limbaugh -- he weighed in on this and he said he's always believed any criticisms of the president would be met with charges of racism and basically implying this is how they try to shut people up criticizing the president. Here's exactly how he put it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO HOST: President of the United States, attorney general of the United States, all poor guys, poor victims of a mean racist America. They point fingers at these mysterious, evil forces and then claim not to know what's in their hearts. And then they talk about, oh, yes, when I hear I want my country -- or when I hear "take back my country", that's code language, said Holder. I know I'm listening to a racist bigot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Greg, is Limbaugh's criticism fair?

GREG ANTHONY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: To a certain extent, and I understand what Sunny was saying earlier. Listen, there's no doubt that racism exists, but it's not the permeating factor in this case. I say that because had racism been so pervasive in our society, we wouldn't have an African-American president elected twice. We wouldn't have an attorney general who was put in office by that president. We wouldn't have had a secretary of state prior in Condoleezza Rice.

So, while it exists, it's still a fringe element. And for the most people who are racist, they're ignorant.

BURNETT: And what about --

ANTHONY: And as an African-American -- well, as an African-American, listen, I deal with people every day in my profession who don't like me. Some might not like me because I'm black. Others don't like me just because they don't like me. That's always a part of it.

Ultimately, you don't do the job of attorney general or the job of president -- of being president any justice by making those claims and stoking those -- that hatred. You basically let those guys win.

HOSTIN: So you should just ignore it?

ANTHONY: You ignore them. You're above them.

HOSTIN: But that's the problem.

BURNETT: Sunny.

HOSTIN: That's the problem I think in our country. I think that we shy away from talking about race. We shy away from the fact that this is happening.

There is this coded language. There is this vitriol against the president.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's not coded.

HOSTIN: It has become personal and there's this sort of dog whistle that, Greg, you and I both know as people that live in black skin knows what they are saying when they say, "take our country back." Give me your birth certificate. Come on.

FERGUSON: Time out, time out, time out. I've heard people say it's time to take our country back when Bill Clinton was hooking up with Monica Lewinsky. Where was the race involved then? I heard it after Al Gore was running for office saying take our country back because they didn't want another eight years of Al Gore and Bill Clinton, so no one was claiming racism then.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Ben, hold on for one second. To your point, I want to play times people have said take our country back and let's talk about the context.

FERGUSON: Sure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MICHELE BACHMANN (R), MINNESOTA: We are going to take our country back.

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We've done all that we can to take our country back.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Millions of Americans are standing up saying we want our country back.

HOWARD DEAN (D), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Today, we stand in common purpose to take our country back!

THEN-SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: It is time to take back the country we love.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BURNETT: They're all making the same point, Ben, when the guys they don't like are in power, they want to take it back.

HOSTIN: Context does matter.

FERGUSON: Which gets back to the core point of this. It's time for Eric Holder to grow up. You're the attorney general of the United States of America.

HOSTIN: What?

FERGUSON: Yes, I said that and I'll explain it very clearly.

HOSTIN: Please do.

FERGUSON: If you want to be an activist, if you want to be an activist, if you want to be an Al Sharpton, and Jesse Jackson, you want to be a race-baiter, and you want stoke the flames, do it. When you're the attorney general of the United States of America you should act at a level above race baiting --

(CROSSTALK)

HOSTIN: You see, Ben, that's the problem. Your problem is the problem that everyone has. When black people want to talk about race, want to confront the issue that we live with every single day, and it is an issue that the attorney general is dealing with and the president is dealing with, we are called racist, we are called race baiters and that has to end. That has to stop.

We have to say this is happening and we have to talk about it.

FERGUSON: Time out.

FERGUSON: I don't need a time-out. I'm not a child.

ANTHONY: Hold on one second, listen -- that's also a part of the issue then.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Ben, go ahead and respond.

FERGUSON: No. You look at Eric Holder. He has a responsibility to be above the race baiting and stoking this flame.

HOSTIN: He's not race baiting.

FERGUSON: Yes, he is. He absolutely is.

HOSTIN: So any time someone talks about what's going on --

FERGUSON: Where was -- when Hillary Clinton said take our country back, where were you and where was Eric Holder saying that was racist? You didn't say it was racist when Hillary said it. Why? Because you liked her because she was a Democrat and that's why --

HOSTIN: No, because context matters. Because context matters.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Sunny, what's the context, though, in the take the country back when Ted Cruz said it that made it race is, for example?

HOSTIN: I think when you're talking about people like Ted Cruz whose politics are very well known, I think when you look at that context, it is clear to me at least that it's take our country back from a black president.

FERGUSON: And I think that --

HOSTIN: And I think no one wants to call it what it is.

BURNETT: OK, Greg, go ahead.

ANTHONY: As an African-American and someone who is somewhat conservative, that perception does become a reality for African- Americans. There's no doubt about it. We don't see and have the same definition for certain words.

I understand that and I do agree in that instance, but the point where I also understand where Ben is coming from, you do have to be above that at a certain point because ultimately my grandma used to tell me, she says, baby, you can't just be good, you have to be better. And she was referring to racism in the country that we live in.

And the attorney general and the president in their positions, there's no reason to even allow that to enter -- that's where we should have that discussion, not the attorney general and not the president.

(CROSSTALK)

BURNETT: Sunny.

HOSTIN: I think that it's more important for those people to be able to say this is an issue.

BURNET: Hold on, Greg.

ANTHONY: When can ever criticize our president and attorney general without it having been called racist, though? Like we're not allowed to criticize them now.

HOSTIN: You are allowed to criticize --

(CROSSTALK)

ANTHONY: -- the president or the attorney general if you don't agree with the policies or the implementation of them?

BURNETT: A quick final word just because Sunny is sitting next to me. I just want to say, isn't there something to be said for those, Sunny, that some people do hide behind that. While, they're criticizing, so it must be because he's black.

HOSTIN: Sure, but his statements are very clear. He's saying not everyone. It may not be the sole driver but it is a driver and that is the truth.

And so, he is limited in a sense in his remarks, but I think it's very important for people in those positions to come out and say, wow, I am the president of the United States. I am the attorney general of the United States, and this is an issue that is happening to me. What better person to come out and be honest and authentic and talk about this very real issue.

BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to all three of you. By the way, for all of our viewers, we want you to weigh in on this issue. I'm sure you feel the same passion as our panel felt.

Citigroup has agreed to pay $7 billion to settle charges it sold packages of risky, shoddy mortgages in the financial crisis. The Justice Department says Citi admitted to its misdeeds which shattered lives in, quote, "great detail". Citi is not the first bank to pay fines like these. According to CNN Money, the nation's biggest banks paid $113 billion to settle various lawsuits.

The money from Citi will be divvied up, the bulk going towards penalties, $2.5 billion to help troubled homeowners, which could mean cutting the interest rates on their loans or reducing the principal.

Still, Paul Leonard from the Center for Responsible Lending tells us there still isn't enough transparency about where the money is going to go and Attorney General Eric Holder called the penalty appropriate. Here's what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOLDER: The bank's misconduct was egregious and under the terms of this settlement, the bank has admitted to its misdeeds in great detail. The bank's activities shattered lives and livelihoods throughout the country and also around the world. They contributed mightily to the financial crisis that devastated our economy in 2008.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: Speaking of 2008, one of the programs that helped ease the pain was the bailout program. You may remember it known as TARP, and that's my number tonight, 12 percent. That is the gain the U.S. treasury, which means we, the taxpayers, got from the bank bailout. That's about $30 billion.

Now, not all TARP investments were profitable. The banks were, but the government lost more than $10 billion on the bailout of General Motors.

OUTFRONT next, the so-called killer call girl about to be formally charged in connection with the death of a Google executive. Tonight, we hear from her former roommate and the teenager who stumbled upon two billionaires sitting on a bench.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: Tonight, the state of California about to formally charge the high-priced prostitute linked to two fatal heroin overdoses, including that of a 51-year-old Google executive who was found dead on his luxury yacht. Alix Tichelman will be in court on Wednesday for her arraignment. Investigators say she cooked up a fatal dose of heroin and then injected the father of five and left him to die, a claim that is not surprising to some who knew her in the years leading up to the deaths.

Dan Simon is OUTFRONT.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is my understanding that --

DAN SIMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Years before she wound up in this courtroom charged in the heroin overdose of Google executive Forrest Hayes, Alix Tichelman, model and call girl, was already showing a pattern of self-destructive behavior.

MARIYA ARMARIO, ALIX TICHELMAN'S FORMER ROOMMATE: She clearly was way gone on her addiction. SIMON: Mariya Armario shared a house with her in San Francisco. It

was 2010 and Tichelman, she says, was working as an exotic dancer and abusing drugs.

According to authorities, Tichelman met Hayes through the Web site seekingarrangement.com, and Armario says her former roommate has long used the Internet to meet potential male clients.

(on camera): Did she tell you why she did it?

ARMARIO: For the money. Lots of money, she said. She said that they would just pick her up, take her on dates and buy her things, and give her money. I asked her if she had to sleep with them because I was curious. She said she never did, but that's what they all say.

SIMON (voice-over): According to her social media profile, Tichelman studied journalism at Georgia State University but never graduated. Her father, Bart Tichelman, is the CEO of SynapSense, a California technology company. But she was living a very different life, slipping into prostitution.

The 26-year-old had once claimed to be a makeup artist and had posted this video on YouTube.

ALIX TICHELMAN, MODEL/CALL GIRL: It's going to take a little bit on a fluffy brush.

SIMON: As we now know, authorities are investigating whether she played a role in a second death. This one outside of Atlanta, where Tichelman's then-boyfriend Dean Riopelle also died of a heroin overdose. It was ruled accidental, but authorities are reopening the investigation.

KHRISTINA BRUCKER, DEAN RIOPELLE'S FORMER NANNY: Dean hated smoking. He hated drinking and he most certainly hated drugs. I -- he was a man that was, you know, skeptical to even taking aspirin, let alone heroin. So do I believe that Dean injected himself with heroin? Absolutely not.

SIMON: That's Riopelle's former live-in nanny who says she left because of Tichelman's drug use and frequent outburst.

BRUCKER: I really truly believe that Alix may have something to do with this and I'm very happy that they reopened this investigation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SIMON: No word yet from Tichelman's public defender. She'll next be in court on Wednesday, where she'll be arraigned on numerous charges, the most serious, of course, felony manslaughter -- Erin.

BURNETT: All right. Dan, thank you.

And joining me now is prosecutor Stacey Honowitz.

And, Stacey, you have one woman linked to two heroin doses in two states within two months. So, what do you make of that, especially given that Dan spoke to someone who lived with her, and she said she was an addict herself?

STACEY HONOWITZ, PROSECUTOR: Well, listen, when you hear about this other case, certainly, people are going to think, was this an accident or coincidence, have you to be able to reopen this case and look to see if there's a pattern of conduct. That's what most people are thinking. There's no way that these two people, these two men that she was involved with, died the same way, and there wasn't some nefarious type of activity that went on.

BURNETT: Was there -- what would have been the motive? I mean, that's I guess what I'm not 100 percent sure of. By the way, the complaint was just filed in terms of her bail, describes her parents as being, quote-unquote, "wealthy".

HONOWITZ: Well, in all honesty, you know you've covered a lot of cases. You never know what the motive is behind certain things.

Sometimes you do. Sometimes you know it's financial gain. It's so obvious, you know, from the start why somebody does something. In this case, it could be that she gets a thrill out of killing. It could be that these men didn't treat her well at a certain amount of time. We don't know.

These are all things the investigators are going to try to figure out. But you don't need a motive. That doesn't mean you can't prosecute a case just because we can't figure out why somebody took part in a criminal act?

BURNETT: So, I spoke to the deputy police chief of Santa Cruz, Steve Clark, about this, and he said that there is a link when you look at these two men and how they died. I just want to play exactly how he described it for you, Stacey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE CLARK, DEPUTY POLICE CHIEF, SANTA CRUZ POLICE DEPARTMENT: You can see some parallels here between these two stories here, you have individuals who are likely inexperienced at using this kind of a drug, and they're brought into it because of their relationship with Ms. Tichelman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BURNETT: So, what normally would happen in cases of drug overdoses, Stacey? I mean, are drug dealers ever charged with murder? If that's sort of the role that she was playing?

HONOWITZ: Yes. I mean, certainly, if you can prove, if you can show that there was knowledge that she was providing a lethal dose of the drug to an individual, and as a result, it effectuated the death of that person? You can certainly charge them. In this case, she's been charged with manslaughter, which is negligence, recklessness. You know, you don't have to prove she wanted them to die. But in patterned cases, we do have cases where there are patterns and

we're able to link two cases together to figure out that this person is in fact responsible, that's what you're going to see here. You see it in sex crimes cases all the time where a child is molested, and then you go back and figure out that maybe years ago, what happened to another individual. This happens in criminal cases, it's very usual, it's not unusual. We're going to have to see what unravels.

BURNETT: All right. Stacey, thank you. Good to talk to you as always.

And OUTFRONT next, want to take a selfie with the rich and famous? Well, you know, it isn't every day that these two guys are sitting on a bench in the particular city in which this boy found them. He talks to Jeanne Moos.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BURNETT: So, what would you do if you saw one of the most famous rock stars in the world sitting on a park bench next to somebody.

Here's Jeanne Moos.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEANNE MOOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It may not be Ellen at the Oscars or the pope or the president. Technically, it's not even a selfie.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tom was like, hey, take a picture of me, take a picture of me.

MOOS: But there's something about this photo of an Omaha teenager giving the thumbs up in front of Paul McCartney and Warren Buffett on a bench go massively viral.

TOM WHITE, STARS IN PAUL MCCARTNEY AND WARREN BUFFETT PHOTO: It's probably the biggest thing that's happened to me, and all of us.

MOOS: Being tom and his three buddies.

Paul McCartney was in Omaha on tour. Warren Buffett lives there. After dinner, the famous posse headed for an ice cream parlor and the word went out. Paul McCartney was walking around Dundee. I repeat, Sir Paul McCartney is in Omaha.

Jacob Murray saw an Instagram post and called his friends.

WHITE: By the time we got there, the Instagram post was seven minutes old.

DREW TVRDY, TOM'S FRIEND: We didn't speed, no, not at all. No, no. Definitely no speeding.

MOOS: Drew Tvrdy brought along his guitar, hoping to get it autographed. Luke clutched an Abbey Road cover, neither got Paul's signature. Though Paul told Drew to keep up with the guitar playing. This woman got a kiss from him for her 24th birthday.

And Tom got the now famous photo.

(on camera): You know my favorite thing about the picture?

(voice-over): Paul and Warren Buffett look like they're sitting on a bench waiting for a bench.

WHITE: It does kind of seem like an odd couple. Someone jokes that they thought it was wax figures I took it with.

MOOS: Tom says, of course, he knew who both men were.

(on camera): Who was a bigger thrill to see?

TVRDY: Definitely Warren Buffett.

WHITE: I think, yes, Warren Buffett.

MOOS (voice-over): Just kidding.

WHITE: Paul is definitely the answer.

MOOS: And guess who retweeted the photo, Sir Paul himself, saying, "Just hanging out with friends."

(MUSIC)

MOOS: But can't a guy just eat his ice cream without being put under the microscope like some kind of Beatle.

Jeanne Moos, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: There's something about that pictures. I don't know, maybe the way they're both sitting with their ankles crossed, and just pretty incredible, huh? Seven minutes and they thought they might miss them.

All right. Well, tomorrow, OUTFRONT, John Paul DeJoria, he's CEO and co-founder of Patron. He was born to immigrant parents and now, he is one of America's richest people. How his upbringing shapes the way he sees the border crisis. That is tomorrow on OUTFRONT.

In the meantime, have a great night. Thanks so much for joining us.

"ANDERSON COOPER 360" starts now.