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At This Hour

Israel/Hamas Cease-Fire Fails; Lax Standards at CDC; Hillary Clinton on "The Daily Show" Tonight; Journalist Detained at Border

Aired July 15, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN CO-ANCHOR: No peace in the Middle East, a cease-fire proposal goes down in flames or more accurately up with Hamas rockets, so is an all-out war next?

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN CO-ANCHOR: An investigation finds more mishandling of anthrax at the CDC bioterrorism lab and dangerous materials in the lab were transferred in Ziploc bags?

BERMAN: Back to Honduras, parents and children sent back home to the most dangerous place on earth after they fled to the U.S., but some are saying they will be back.

Hello, everyone. Great to see you today. I'm John Berman.

PEREIRA: And I'm Michaela Pereira. It's 11:00 a.m. in the East, 8:00 a.m. out West, those stories and much more.

Right now, @THISHOUR, fears that the violence in the Middle East is about to get worse, Israel's prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, sending out this tweet a short time ago, quote, "Hamas's rejection of the cease-fire gives Israel full legitimacy to expand the operation to protect our people."

BERMAN: The firing never really did cease at all. Israel accepted the deal. It did stop firing, but Hamas did not. It kept on shooting rockets the whole time, so six hours after halting its operations, Israel resumed its flights, its mission, its bombings, which have killed around 200 people in Gaza so far.

The prime minister's spokesman told our Wolf Blitzer earlier that the cease-fire really was a one-sided operation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK REGEV, SPOKESMAN FOR ISRAEL'S PRIME MINISTER: As you've said, Hamas itself has said some problematic statements, but let's be clear here. Hamas runs the Gaza Strip.

It's not a democracy there in Gaza. They rule the Strip with an iron fist. If they want to stop rockets being fired, they can do it. So far, they have done not enough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So if Israel does expand the operation now, as it says it might, does that mean a full-bore war is minutes, hours, days away?

We're joined here by our military analyst, retired Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. We also have former U.N. and State Department official David Tafuri with us.

And David, you know, Israel did stop shooting. They accepted the Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire. Hamas did not. So, did they miss an opportunity to solve this crisis, and why did they let it pass up?

DAVID TAFURI, FORMER U.N. AND STATE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: They certainly did miss an opportunity, but there's a bit of opportunism by Hamas. They want to accomplish certain goals

They want to demonstrate to the people that they are retaliating against Israel, that they are making an impact, and they want to demonstrate that to the world. And they want to get more support from the terrorist organizations around the world that support them.

So they must have deemed that a cease-fire was not in their interest right now, even though they are suffering heavy losses because of the bombings by Israel.

PEREIRA: Colonel, the cease-fire brokered by Egypt, Secretary of State John Kerry supported it, is this thing dead in the water?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: It didn't address Hamas's requirements. I think it was dead in the water before it got to Hamas's desk. They rejected out of hand because it didn't address their conditions, which were ridiculous.

No one was going to make those conditions happen, so I think David is exactly right. Hamas is playing a really dangerous game here because, although it gives them credibility in the eyes of other opposition groups around the world, other terrorist groups around the world, they are losing the face -- faith with their own people.

This is the military wing of Hamas, and they are putting their own people in danger. I think they are going to have an internal problem after this.

BERMAN: It's interesting, David, the situation that Egypt put Hamas in, because over the last few days, there was a lot of talk about the civilian casualties in Gaza.

Egypt, right next door to Hamas and over the last several decades occasionally allied with Hamas, recently not so much, said here's a way out, but they didn't take it.

Did they put Hamas in a bind here?

TAFURI: They put pressure on Hamas as they should have. This was a great opportunity for the Egyptian government to step up and show they can be a peace broker and have an impact on the Middle East.

There's a lot of turmoil in the Middle East right now. This comes at a very difficult time. It's the dead of summer, very hot. It's the middle of Ramadan. Everyone's very anxious.

It would have been nice if Egypt could have helped resolve this, but it didn't happen. It's going to take more than the Egyptian government.

PEREIRA: And what hangs in the balance is the fact there are people that are caught in the crossfire, people that are not necessarily being well represented by Hamas, one would ask.

When you look at the casualties, nearly 200 people we're talking about in terms of the Palestinian loss now. What happens there? Because they are trapped. Those people have nowhere to go. They can't necessarily evacuate.

FRANCONA: There's no way to go. The population density in Gaza is astounding. So if the Israelis do anything, by the very nature of their operation, there is going to be civilian casualties. There's no escaping it.

The Israelis try to ameliorate it as much as they can, but there's just no way to get around it. Look at the numbers, 200 on the Palestinian side and zero on the Israeli side, because the Israelis provide shelter, warning, the Iron Dome system. And in Gaza they don't have access to that technology.

So who are the Palestinians going to blame? So far, they blame the Israelis, but if Hamas keeps this up, they may find themselves in a really bad situation with their own population.

BERMAN: David, knowing what you know about the Israelis now and the government of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, how far do you think will they go now?

How much will they seize this opportunity as a mandate -- and he has used that word -- to expand their operations? Are we talking ground troops within the next 24 hours?

TAFURI: There's a bit of opportunism by Israel, for certain, as well. They have certain military objectives. They want to satisfy those objectives. They have a lot of targets in Gaza. They're beginning to hit them. They probably have a lot more they want to hit.

So they probably, at this point, want some more time to really run down the effectiveness of Hamas and the militants there and hit their missile-striking capability, rocket-making capability, in order to make it harder for them to attack Israel in the future.

So it's going to take several more days before Israel feels like its really made the impact that it wants to make, perhaps some further military raids with troops on the ground. I don't expect there will be any type of large-scale boots on the ground by Israel, though.

BERMAN: David Tafuri, Colonel Rick Francona, thanks so much for being with us. Appreciate it.

PEREIRA: Let's take a look at some other stories that we're following @THISHOUR. Morning rush hour Moscow becomes a nightmare scene of death and injury.

Three subway cars derail in a tunnel. State-run media is saying that 20 people are dead. More than a hundred others are injured. We're told that about half of them are in critical condition.

City officials say this was not a terror attack, but they are still investigating what caused this derailment.

BERMAN: Some shoppers near Houston took quick action when they saw two kids crying, locked in a hot jeep and the whole thing caught on cell phone video. They smashed the windows. They were able to pull the children out.

The mother said she left them temporarily so she could get a haircut. No one called police after she pleaded with the crowd, saying she'd made a terrible mistake. The children appeared to be unharmed.

PEREIRA: Imagine this conundrum. A man visiting his son in jail ended up behind bars himself, and now he's suing Cook County, Illinois, for emotional distress.

Farad Polk says he took a wrong turn inside the jail and ended up trapped in a cell for more than 30 hours. He says he kicked the door, he screamed, but apparently his cries went unanswered.

The cell is actually a special incarceration unit reserved for the most dangerous inmates. Finally Polk was discovered after he broke a sprinkler head in the ceiling, flooding the room. That alerted the guards and the fire department.

BERMAN: Quick thinking on his part. They may want to look at their systems there in that facility.

PEREIRA: Maybe.

BERMAN: Tracy Morgan, back home as he continues to recover from that horrific accident last month, this morning, the actor-comedian spoke briefly to reporters, the first since the crash that killed his friend and fellow comedian James McNair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How are you feeling, Tracy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look great.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You look great, man.

TRACY MORGAN, ACTOR-COMEDIAN: I love you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you so much.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Love you too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bye.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Looked pretty good.

Morgan broke his femur and several ribs when his limousine was struck from behind by a Walmart truck. Last week, he did file suit against Walmart.

PEREIRA: Good to see him and a bit of a smile there.

BERMAN: Yeah.

PEREIRA: He's got a long road ahead of him.

Ahead @THISHOUR, dangerous materials being kept in Ziploc bags, anthrax being stored in unlocked refrigerators, we've got some scary, new details revealed at the CDC.

BERMAN: Then, Hillary Clinton is heading to "The Daily Show" tonight. This must be a sign of something. We'll tell you what, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: A new investigation has found more scary mishandling of anthrax at the CDC bioterrorism lab in Atlanta.

A government memo says anthrax was stored in unlocked refrigerators and that workers transferred other types of dangerous material in nothing but Ziploc bags.

BERMAN: Ziplocs are great for sandwiches, but maybe not so much in bio-terror labs.

This comes after the CDC found more than 80 workers could have been exposed to anthrax last month. The problem so serious, the CDC's director has been called to testify before a House panel tomorrow.

Senior medical correspondent Elizabeth Cohen joins us now from Atlanta. Elizabeth, handling anthrax is difficult enough. Mishandling it seems awfully concerning.

ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's especially concerning, John, because these are the guys who are supposed to be the experts.

The rest of the world looks to the CDC for how to handle these kinds of things. They are supposed to be the best, and they've messed up, so that's what's especially concerning.

Now I will say I don't think that this is a public health threat. There's so many different layers of security that, even though some of these layers may have been messed up, others ones were in place. It's not as if they sort of blasted these into the city of Atlanta.

I live not far from the CDC. I'm not worried, but it's really concerning that these guys messed up so badly. They are supposed to be the best at it.

PEREIRA: But anthrax, we all have heard the terrible tales of anthrax. This stuff is dangerous. It can be fatal if you come into contact with it.

COHEN: Oh, absolutely. Anthrax is a bacteria that then makes poisons and can spread around your body. There's so many ways to get sick from it. You can inhale it. You can ingest it. You can absorb it.

There are antibiotics that can help if you get them soon enough, but, yeah, this is really serious stuff.

BERMAN: I had my anthrax vaccines from when I was in Iraq because Saddam Hussein had chemical and biological weapons. I was inoculated. I need to be put up to date, I think.

But it's not just anthrax, Elizabeth. There's other stuff here too.

COHEN: It is, like you mentioned transporting dangerous things in Ziploc bags. There was another incident where bird flu, H5N1, was transported out of the CDC when it shouldn't have been. There was an incident with some smallpox that they found at the NIH in Maryland that wasn't supposed to be there and had been there for decades.

So, yeah, there's a lot of questions that need to be answered here.

PEREIRA: So at the very least, their systems and procedures need an overhaul, right? What are they going to do to fix this?

COHEN: You know what one person said to me, Michaela, who's really familiar with this? He said the culture needs to be overhauled.

In any job, when you do something over and over again, you maybe cut corners, you maybe don't follow the rules quite as you are supposed to, but you've done it this way for years and nothing bad has happened.

And there needs to be a wake-up call. Hey, come on, guys. You need to start following the rules again.

BERMAN: I was reading one analysis where they said it was hubris. These scientists are so good they just assume they don't make mistakes anymore and they stop being as careful as they need to be.

COHEN: Right.

PEREIRA: Ziploc barely keeps my tuna fish sandwich intact. You know what I am saying. So I would kind of hope --

COHEN: But if you've been doing this for years. If you have been doing this over and over again, you do develop hubris. You think, well you know, it's fine. I've done this forever, well yeah, but you are not supposed to because it could lead to problems.

BERMAN: Hubris and anthrax, a bad combination. Elizabeth stick around, because in a little bit we are going to talk about another bad combination. Your ipad possibly and a bad rash. Elizabeth will be back to explain all of that in a little bit.

Coming up for us, Jon Stewart, Hillary Clinton, what could possibly go wrong? The former Secretary of State heads to The Daily Show tonight for the first time since 2008 when, you know, she was running for president. So how about this time?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: So Jon Stewart has a show, it's called "The Daily Show," and tonight he has a pretty big name on the guest list, Hillary Clinton.

PEREIRA: Our political commentator Sally Kohn is with us to talk about this. Also joining us is Republican strategist Alice Stewart, Alice nice to see you. Sally, good to see you as well. OK, so what? Third appearance for Hillary Clinton.

BERMAN: That must mean something!

PEREIRA: Well, OK, I say it must because the last time she was there, 2008, what happened in 2008? She was campaigning for president. Could this be a pre-campaign?

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It's starting to seem like a ritual. I'm wondering if this time she's going to see her shadow, and if she does, will it mean six more months that we have to wait to find out if she's going to run for president? Can't wait to find out. I just, honestly, this is a good tease and I look forward to, at least, some new jokes that can be added to all of our repertoire about what a giant tease this is. Go for it Jon Stewart.

BERMAN: Alice, what is "The Daily Show"? What does Jon Stewart give a politician, a prospective candidate? And I suppose it is a fair question, is it different for Republicans and Democrats?

ALICE STEWART, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I have worked for many candidates that have been on the show, and booked them on the show, and what he gives to any candidate or campaign is the ability to reach out to an audience that doesn't normally tune in to political news and is not going to read the papers or watch the evening news and he gives them an opportunity to learn about these people on a more personal level. And the key to his success is the fact that he is tremendously smart and he knows the issues and he presents it in a way that's humorous and funny and certainly brings in the younger generation.

So it will be interesting to see how he approaches this with Hillary Clinton this evening. I would imagine a question what exactly is your definition of the phrase dead broke. That might be asked this evening.

PEREIRA: And that is what I was going to say, because that's an interesting thing that he has a great skill set at. Talking about those delicate, awkward moments, and for whatever reason, you know, everybody that is a guest on the show goes along with it and finds their own way to answer things. You think dead broke isn't going to come up? You think she isn't going to address it again tonight?

KOHN: Well, I do. I do, and I think it should. PEREIRA: This might be the perfect opportunity for her.

KOHN: I also think her coziness with wall street. I mean there was a great piece out today about how, look, in the '90s, the Clintons had to prove that they were cozy with big business and that they weren't Democrats that were against big business. Now they have to unprove it again. So I think all this should come out.

And I think that's exactly right. What Jon Stewart is great at is people can't be too scripted with him. He will knock you off your script. And so, A, she's going to be direct and earnest and unprepared and not have these, oops, I kind of wish I hadn't said it like that moments again, and also it's exactly right, he appeals to this young voter demographic that she has to seem, if she is running, like a fresh candidate with and not there flashback from the 90s.

BERMAN: Alice, a Republican, I'll throw you a softball. Can Hillary seem fresh and hip on "The Daily Show"?

KOHN: Just walked into that one.

STEWART: That is the $10,000 question. Sure, I think she can. She's very personable, she will be able to relax and have a good time. And obviously the key for this interview is to promoting her book, Hard Choices, and that is what she intends to do.

But Jon Stewart is not going to let her get away that easy. He'll certainly hit on some of the hard issues. The good thing about this with any candidate, promoting a book, specifically if you are looking at 2016, you have got to do these shows, you have to reach out to these younger audiences and be able to show your personal side, which she will do.

But I will say, hats off to her. She's done some of the hard interviews as well. Done all of the network news. Interviews and NPR, and really answered the hard questions.

BERMAN: Sorry, Alice, I mean, this isn't an issue of going around the mainstream media. She did a series of interviews with just about everyone. And now she is getting --

PEREIRA: And, yes, it's a man.

BERMAN: Alice, I do want to talk to you about some politicians in your own party right now, some Republicans. There's some really serious discussion going around right now inside Republican party about foreign policy and the role of intervention versus isolationism. You have Rand Paul and Rick Perry going at it. I mean really going at it. And you have Dick Cheney yesterday, in and interview with Politico, saying that people who are isolationist, and he didn't really name Rand Paul by name there but you know who he is talking about, he said that they are out to lunch. What's this doing right now inside your party?

STEWART: Well I think you are going to have differences of opinion on every single topic that there is out there on the table and Rand Paul has made no secret of the fact that he is non-interventionist. But you are going to have people that disagree.

I think the fact of the matter is the real concern when it comes to an issue like foreign policy is the situation we're in currently. We had "The Wall Street Journal," just this week, say we're in the most dire foreign policy situation we've been in since the 1970s, and it's all a direct result of Barack Obama's failure to lead on foreign policy. That is on thing that we can all certainly agree on right now. That we're not the super power of the world like we used to be, and that's a bigger concern than a few differences of opinions that we have on foreign policy within the Republican party.

PEREIRA: And Sally, you came in here itching to talk about this already today. Go.

KOHN: Well, I mean, first of all, we're vulnerable on foreign policy and not able to lead strongly because we had a president and a vice president who took their eye off the ball, led us into two unfunded wars and didn't go after terrorist like bin Laden. That was President Obama who actually did that, who focused and got the job done.

But, you know, look the reality is the more Dick Cheney speaks out, the better it is for Democrats. It reminds everyone exactly where these messes came from in the first place and the kind of foreign policy and domestic policy they no longer want. He can keep talking, that's fine.

BERMAN: The Cheney issue does obscure what is a serious and important discussion inside the Republican party about the right decisions in foreign policy. There is a choice, there is a choice right now as you look forward to 2016. You don't always have that in a primary.

Sally Kohn, Alice Stewart, great to have you here, really appreciate it. On the subject of Dick Cheney, Sally, if you didn't get enough from Dick Cheney, there is more today. Jake Tapper will have a full interview, I think it will be fascinating. It is today on "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER", 4:00 Eastern, only on CNN.

PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, undocumented immigrant and star of CNN's "DOCUMENTED", Jose Antonio Vargas, detained at an airport in Texas. We have the details.

BERMAN: And then, from detainment to deportation. Immigrant children and mothers returned to Honduras, why they might be back in the U.S. and maybe soon. That is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: We have learn just a short time ago that Pulitzer prize winning journalist Jose Antonio Vargas, the star of CNN's "DOCUMENTED", has been detained by border patrol agents. Vargas is know for revealing what it is like the live as an undocumented immigrant in an article for "The New York Times" magazine. He was at an airport in McAllen, Texas, which is a border city. He was flying to Los Angeles when he was detained.

Alina Machado joins us now with more details. Alina, what do we know about this? Why exactly was he detained?

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well Michaela, we know he was detained because he simply does not have the proper documents to get through airport security.