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Don Lemon Tonight

Hot Car Mom; Dick Cheney Criticizes President Obama; Holder Ignites Debate on Race; Holder Ignites Debate on Race; Dad Claim Land in Africa For Princess Daughter

Aired July 15, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon.

The mother of the hot car toddler has a message for all of us: Leave me alone. Her attorney says she is being unjustly harassed. Are she and her husband already being tried in the court of public opinion? My legal experts will weigh in on that.

I will also talk to a couple who have suffered the hell of losing their baby in a hot car. They want to make sure it never happens again.

Plus, is Eric Holder playing the race card just because he says some of the criticism of the president is, you guessed it, about race? Is he right? And who decides what you can and cannot say about President Obama?

Also, Dick Cheney tells Jake Tapper this:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: You have said that Hillary Clinton you think would have been a better president than Barack Obama. She and you...

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Jimmy Carter might have been a better president than Barack Obama, and I didn't think I would ever say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Is that any way for a former vice president to talk about the commander in chief?

And the princess dad, this guy is really raising the bar for birthdays. He is claiming a patch of East African desert so his 7- year-old daughter can be a real princess. Whatever happened to a pony for your birthday?

And, as always, we want to know what you think. Make sure you tweet us using #AskDon.

But, first, here is my take tonight. When the attorney general of the United States talks, you listen. Eric Holder gave a wide- ranging interview the other day. He discussed Syria, airport security, ISIS in Iraq, al Qaeda, the war on terror overseas and at home, Benghazi, same-sex marriage, the Redskins, and Sarah Palin.

But guess what everyone is still talking about? His comments on race. He said his and the president's opponents on the right sometimes oppose them because they are black.

I believe context is everything, and we should keep in mind that the attorney general was responding to a reporter's questions. We should also keep in mind that Holder prefaced his comments by saying he didn't know what people were holding in their hearts, and that he believed that some of the opposition was based on race, not all.

Now some, mostly those on the right, are accusing Holder of playing racial politics. It's amazing to think that we have come so far in this country to have a black president and a black attorney general, yet we still get bogged down in black and white.

We're going to dig into that just a little bit later on in this show.

But now let's get to the new developments today in that hot car case in Atlanta.

Martin Savidge is here with the very latest for us.

Martin, the attorney for Leanna Harris, little Cooper's mother, issued a letter on her behalf. What did she say? What did he say?

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I should point out, Don, that this is not the words of Leanna Harris, but of her attorney. And at times it's fairly strongly written.

Let me just read you a portion of it. It begins like this: "Leanna Harris is living every parent's nightmare. The child she bore and loved every moment of her life has died. For most parents, it is difficult, if not impossible to comprehend such a thing, but, for Leanna, that nightmare is all too real. She will never again be able to tuck him into bed at night and return later to check on him."

That, of course, is a very emotional description there. So it's a powerful letter, but it's also blasting against the media as well, Don.

LEMON: And there was no mention of her husband at all?

SAVIDGE: No, there wasn't. And that was probably the most striking aspect of this entire letter was the fact that you would not even know that she is married.

And, of course, she is married to Justin Ross Harris, the man who is currently being held for the death of their son, but, again, no reference to him whatsoever, and so different from that eulogy at the funeral of the little boy, where she stood up for her husband and said he was a wonderful father.

Of course, in between was a court hearing in which authorities revealed he had been having an online relationship with several women, including on the day that the child died, Don.

LEMON: Yes, several, at least a half-dozen.

So let's talk more about this statement. It is a plea for privacy. But it's also a warning against rushing to judgment. The attorney even mentions Richard Jewell. Tell us about that, Martin.

SAVIDGE: Yes, it's a very specific reference. Let me read again. "Dealing with her grief ha become more difficult as the days go on, however, in large part because of the constant speculation and innuendo in the media, newspapers, television and online media have fostered a poisonous atmosphere in which Leanna's every word, action and emotion or failure to cry in front of a crowd is scrutinized for some supposed hidden meaning, in much the same way the press unjustly harassed and hounded Olympic bombing hero Richard Jewell, when he didn't behave as some had thought he should."

Of course, Richard Jewell is pretty much a poster child, I suppose, for those who claim, no, he was wrongly accused. Remember, he was the security guard that found that bomb before it went off in the Olympic Park, saved many lives by pushing people away, but later accused by law enforcement and members of the media of actually having been part of the bombing plot. He was not. He was fully exonerated.

But before he died in 2007, he had always said that that shadow had followed him for the rest of his life, Don.

LEMON: Martin Savidge, thank you very much. Appreciate that.

My legal experts are standing by to get into this.

But, first, here is a couple who found themselves living a nightmare when their baby died in a hot car three years ago. And to his horror, Brett Cavaliero forgot his daughter Sophia Rayne in truck nearly three -- for nearly three hours. Now he and his wife, Kristie, are working to make sure it never happens to another parent.

And they join me now.

Thank you, guys, so much for joining.

I would imagine that this pain never goes away.

Brett, you lost your daughter. You called her Ray-Ray. It was a little more than three years ago as a result of a hot car accident. It must be painful, as I said, to recount, but can you tell what's happened?

BRETT CAVALIERO, DAUGHTER DIED IN HOT CAR: It's excruciatingly painful. Reliving the story, the events that happened on that day is very, very challenging.

But for my daughter, in memory of my daughter, I have learned as much as I can about what brings on this type of accident. And I'm pursuing, with my wife, trying to educate and let everybody know that these things happen to good, loving, caring parents. And I loved my daughter with all my life and all my heart.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Brett, how did it happen, how did it happen in your case? What happened?

CAVALIERO: Very common, it seems, but one element of it is, I was -- woke up a little bit late. We were rushing out the door. And I drove my typical route to -- onward to work and to the day care drop-off.

And I made a wrong turn. I don't know why. I will probably never will know why I made that wrong turn. But I turned as if I was going to work. And my brain took over, and call it an autopilot type of situation. And I drove to work, believing in my mind I dropped my daughter off.

LEMON: Yes. I can hear your voice shaking there when you recount it.

Kristie, when the realization hit you that Ray-Ray was still in Brett's truck, what were you thinking? What did you do?

KRISTIE REEVES-CAVALIERO, DAUGHTER DIED IN HOT CAR: I just had the -- it's like my heart stopped. He told me -- we were on our way to lunch for a lunch date prior to me going out of town for a business trip. And he told me to speed back to the office immediately.

And I turned around. And I was at a traffic light. And he said, run the light. And I said, what is going on? And he said, I can't remember dropping Ray off at day care. And I got to tell you, my heart just sank. And so I literally floored it. I ran the red light. I drove the wrong way on an exit ramp to get around traffic.

I instructed him to call the office manager on his cell phone to have her go check the truck. And, at the same time, I got on my cell phone and called the day care and asked to speak with the teacher. And around the same time, we both learned that, number one, the office manager had removed her from the truck, and the day care teacher said, no, she wasn't here today.

So I hung up and immediately called 911. And I think it was about 30 seconds later, the office staff also called 911. So there were two 911 calls. But, honest to God, it was just -- you know, your heart just sinks because you know that -- you know it's not good. And I didn't know how bad, but I knew it wasn't good.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: And I understand there was a trigger, because she wore a dress I think it was a day care worker or the teacher had given her. And you asked your husband, you said, she didn't mention anything about the dress because you put it on her that day, correct?

REEVES-CAVALIERO: Yes.

LEMON: And that was the trigger that brought it about.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: That was the trigger, because we were talking about how pretty she was that day. And she really was. This was -- she had just celebrated her birthday 10 days earlier.

And her teacher, that teacher that day, whom she loved, and the teacher loved her as well, she bought her this beautiful floral dress. And it was to be tropical day at school that day. So we dressed her in it, and we were oh, wow, Ms. Darling (ph) is just going to be really thrilled that she is in her gift.

And so we were just talking on the way to lunch about how pretty she was. And then Brett became very, very quiet. And that's when he told me, turn the car around. Go back to the office immediately.

LEMON: Oh my goodness.

So, here is a question, though. How do you convince people that this could happen to anyone wholly accidentally? Brett was never charged with any crime. How do you convince people? Because, as we talk about this, I hear people saying, I just can't imagine ever leaving my child in the car. But then we have so many people who do it all the time.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: All the time.

And it's good parents. It's parents from all socioeconomic backgrounds. This knows no socioeconomic status, no race, no anything. This kind of disaster does not discriminate. And, honestly, if you would have asked us on May 24, 2011, the day before our tragedy, if it was humanely possible for us to forget our child in the back of the car, we would have said absolutely no way, absolutely not.

One of the things we have learned since then, though, is that forgotten back seat baby syndrome is an unintended consequence of us moving our children to the back seats. And, in particular, the children who are in a rear-facing seat in the back seat, they have diminished visibility. So you can't see them as the driver.

And then if they have fallen asleep, as in the case of our child, as well as many other children who have died this way, you have also lost auditory reminders that the child is in the car.

LEMON: It's literally sort of out of sight, out of mind. I hate to be harsh with that.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: Yes.

LEMON: I want to talk about -- because you have a foundation that is called Ray-Ray's Pledge to try to prevent this from happening.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: Yes, absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Yes. And what is the Web site?

REEVES-CAVALIERO: It's www.rayrayspledge.com. And then we also have a great Twitter page where we provide prevention tips and information several times a day. Our handle at Twitter is @rayrayspledge. I encourage everyone to please visit us and get our prevention tips.

LEMON: I have got to ask you this.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: Yes.

LEMON: And I don't mean to be heartless at all, trust me.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: Sure.

LEMON: But it's a question that everyone asks, Brett and Kristie. And it's, how do you go on? How do you live with yourself after something like this happens? How do you do it?

CAVALIERO: Well, I live with this nightmare for the rest of my life. It will never go away.

The bits and pieces that make me smile are when I can feel that I'm making an impact, just as I look at all the awareness right now on this issue. This issue has existed for a long time. I did realize I'm not alone. There's many, many fathers and caregivers just like me. And I'm really trying very hard with my wife to make a difference and let everyone know I'm not a monster.

I loved my child. I would have given my life in a heartbeat for her. But now I have to help others understand and help me try to save some lives.

LEMON: It's just -- it's an unfortunate accident that happens far too often. And thank you again. It's Ray-Ray's Pledge.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: It's terrible.

LEMON: Thank you, Kristie. Thank you, Brett. I really appreciate you joining us.

REEVES-CAVALIERO: Thank you so much.

(CROSSTALK)

CAVALIERO: Hey, thank you. Thank you.

LEMON: When we come back, a hot car story that will surprise you, the 3-year-old who saved a senior citizen.

Also, some people think Eric Holder shouldn't be talking about race and politics, but no topic is off limits here. We're going to debate that tonight.

And the man who founded his own country just so his 7-year-old daughter can be a real princess. What could possibly go wrong? They tell their story.

And we want to know what you think. Make sure you tweet us using #AskDon.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone.

Leanna Harris' attorney says she is living a nightmare as she mourns her son, Cooper, while her husband is charged with murder. But are both parents already being tried in the court of public opinion?

Joining me now, a man who knows a lot about that is Jose Baez, Casey Anthony's former attorney, also Mel Robbins, CNN commentator and legal analyst, and Alex Ferrer, a former police officer, a former Florida circuit court judge, and the host of the television show "Judge Alex."

So, Jose Baez, your represented a notorious client, of course, who people had formed very strong opinions about, a very firm on. Are people rushing to judgment, you think, on Justin Harris?

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, I don't think there is any doubt that that is what is going on here. I think it's quite obvious. And once you have a story like this that, as they say in the media, has legs, it just keeps going on and on and on. And before you know it, they're dragging in thanks, personal things and private things about this man's life that are frankly irrelevant to whether or not he did something intentional or not.

LEMON: Mel, have a lot. Listen, you heard from the parents just behind. You have heard what Justin Ross Harris said. But do you -- have you seen anything in this that would lead you to believe that this just -- there may just be an innocent explanation for all of this?

MEL ROBBINS, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Well, I actually do think there is an innocent explanation, Don.

And I wrote an opinion piece on CNN.com that went bananas, basically telling everybody, before you indict this woman, take a step back and take a look at the facts. The police keep saying they have a mountain of evidence, Don, but where it is, other than the fact that unfortunately little baby Cooper was left in the car?

I know that there are some things that the dad has done that we all find to be really offensive. But, as Jose Baez was saying -- and I agree with them -- most of us are rushing to judgment to connect the dots where there may not be a guilty -- like a guilty person here. This may have been a gigantic mistake, and he was horrible in trying to cover it up.

LEMON: But the question is, is public opinion changing? I have been reading things saying he may be tried in the media, in some media. He made by tried by the court of public opinion by some. But if you talk to jurors, and if you talk to people probably

like Judge Alex, who try these cases, it may be hard to convict him because there is -- all the evidence is circumstantial, Judge.

ALEX FERRER, "JUDGE ALEX": That's true. But circumstantial cases can result in a conviction and often do.

It's not unusual at all. I will say this. I can't imagine anything worse than losing a child. My mother lost both of my brothers. I imagine it's 100 times worse when you are personally responsible for the death of your child.

And the only thing that could possibly be worse than that if you're falsely accused of being involved in the intentional murder of your child. I understand where her lawyer is coming from. That being said, the police would be crazy if they did not suspect the parents in the case. When you talk about a mountain of evidence, they're not going share it with us.

However, the things that we have heard, if they are true, are definitely hugely suspicious circumstances, are that they found in the father's work computer that he had been searching for how long it takes a child to die in a hot car, that he had searched about living a child-free life, that he had searched how to live in prison, how to survive in prison, that it took five minutes from him to go from where he was eating breakfast with his child to his place of work.

In those five minutes, he forgot his child was in the car. Could all that be innocent? Yes, it absolutely could be innocent. But is it hugely suspicious and should the police be focusing on the parents, both of them? Because the mother, supposedly, when she was approached and told that her child was never dropped off at day care, responded with, oh, my God, he must have left her in the car, which is I think a bit of a leap, but you never know.

And, also, when she visited him at the police station, and he was lamenting, not that his child had died, but that, oh, my God, he might get tried -- charged with a felony, she said to him, supposedly, did you say too much here? Those are all very suspicious circumstances.

And they're the reason why people -- and the police specifically -- are focusing on them as possible suspects. That being said, as everybody has pointed out, they might be innocent.

LEMON: OK. All right.

I want to move on and talk about another case, because we have been talking every evening here about how much this happened. Yesterday, Katy, Texas, two screaming children pulled from a stifling car as their mother was inside a hair salon. A group of shoppers smashed the windows to free the children.

The mother admitted, Mel, that she made a terrible mistake and that she pleaded for the crowd not to call the police. Should they have called police? She was getting a haircut.

ROBBINS: Absolutely they should call police.

FERRER: Yes.

ROBBINS: Honestly, Don, at this point, if you leave your kid in a hot car in Texas, hello, and you're inside getting your hair done, you're putting your kids in a situation that any reasonable person would say is dangerous.

And, thankfully, because of the media coverage, more and more people are realizing you should never leave your kids or your dogs in a car if it's 70 degrees or more anywhere in the United States. So, yes, yes, they should be looking into that.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: Can we see a little bit more of that tape? And I want to hear what they were saying there, because there are laws now. They're trying to put laws into effect where people are not prosecuted for doing this.

And they were banging on that window. The question here, though, Jose Baez, it really comes to intent, doesn't it?

BAEZ: Oh, absolutely.

I think if you have an issue here where, as you see, an issue like this beckons awareness. And a lot of people are talking about this right now. So when you have that situation, lawmakers want to put laws on the books. But then you go into that slippery slope where you have to prove intent.

And nothing could be harder than trying to prove someone's intent in a court of law.

LEMON: Just so we -- just -- and this is just tonight. I want to tell you guys that, tonight, police in Sandy Springs, Georgia, are searching for a woman who jumped in her car and drove off when another shopper discovered her children locked in a heated car.

Should she be pursued and prosecuted, Mel?

ROBBINS: You know, look, Don, I personally think if you leave your kids under a certain age inside a car without adult supervision, it is a form of negligence and child abuse, full stop.

So, yes, I do think that we need to have a standard in this country where you don't leave your kids unattended. Just like in many states in this country, Don, you can't leave your kids at home alone without an adult watching -- or a responsible party watching them, you shouldn't be able to leave them in a car. It's absurd.

LEMON: Point taken, Mel. Point taken. I want to go and I want to do this next one. This is a good story now.

Bob King, East Tennessee, alive and well thanks to a fast-acting 3-year-old, Keith Williams, who rescued him from a locked car. Little Keith got the pastor, who was able to open the door and get King out. He went to the guy who was locked in the car. He couldn't get out. The kid goes into the church, gets the pastor and then he get out.

So, Judge, all these stories at least raise awareness of the dangers of being locked in a car, whether it's an adult who can't help themselves or children.

FERRER: Well, we're, of course, being directed -- directly focused on it by the media now because it's a hot topic. But it happens every year. There's about two dozen deaths of children in cars every single year.

And that just talks about the ones who died. We don't even get to hear about the ones where the parents realized it and said, oh, my God, and got there in time to save the child. The police don't get called. It doesn't get reported. Or they left them behind at a restaurant or all kinds of crazy things.

I don't know that it's any more epidemic now than it has been. I think it's just being reported because of this horrible case.

LEMON: All right, thank you very much. Thank you, Jose Baez. Thank you very much, Judge Ferrer, and also Mel Robbins. Appreciate it.

Up next, the right in an uproar, hitting back at Eric Holder for saying that some of President Obama's opponents are motivated by race. But is he right? We will debate that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Comments by Attorney General Eric Holder have ignited a firestorm. He says he believes race is behind some of the opposition to President Obama's policies.

Critics on the right pounce on Holder's remarks, accusing him of playing the race card.

We're going to have our own debate in just a moment.

But, first, here is CNN's Joe Johns.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOE JOHNS, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Attorney General Eric Holder, speaking at historically black Howard University today, calling on Congress to expand the protections of the Voting Rights Act. Holder once again wades into the issue of race.

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: As it stands, our society is not yet color-blind, nor should it be, given the disparities that still afflict and divide us. We must be color brave and must never forget that all are made better and more prosperous if all are given equal opportunities.

JOHNS: Provocative for sure, but it is his comments about race over the weekend that are getting all the attention. Holder suggesting on some level race is a factor in the treatment he and the President receive from some segments of the public.

HOLDER: There is a certain level of vehemence it seems to me that is directed at me, directed at the president. You know, people talk about taking their country back.

JOHNS: The fact is Democrats have also used that phrase, taking their country back, referring to Republicans, including former President George W. Bush. But Holder is taking aim at those on the right, calling for the impeachment of the President and the Attorney General himself.

HOLDER: There is a certain racial component to this for some people. I don't think this is a main driver. But for some there is a racial animus.

JOHNS: Radio host Rush Limbaugh slammed Holder for the comments.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: President of the United States, Attorney General of the United States, oh, poor guys. Poor victims of a mean, racist America.

JOHNS: But not all Republicans are in attack mode. Ohio Senator Rob Portman on FOX News was tempered.

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I don't think it helps us. I don't think it takes us in the right direction in terms on making progress of dealing with, you know, this eternal issue we've got in America which is assuring that we're doing everything we possibly can to fight racism.

JOHNS: But the combative tone, much like Sarah Palin's call for impeachment of the President --

SARAH PALIN (R), FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: So it's time to impeach.

JOHNS: Has some Republicans saying it's all playing into the Democrats' hands in a midterm election year.

KARL ROVE, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR FOR BUSH: Impeachment is exactly what the president wants to talk about. Just like he liked the Republicans and conservatives to talk about him being born in Kenya for five or six years, he is happy to have Republicans talk about impeaching him. A bad thing to do. The politics of that are all wrong.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: All right. CNN's Joe Johns. Joe, thank you very much.

Joining me now, CNN political commentator Charles Blow who is also an op-ed columnist with the New York Times. Ben Ferguson is also a CNN political commentator and host of "The Ben Ferguson Show." And Jason Riley is the author of "Please Stop Helping Us: How Liberals Make it Harder for Blacks to Succeed."

Charles Blow, you first, is Eric Holder right? Do you think that the statement taking the country back is different when it's used by a republican versus a democrat?

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that that part of the -- of his comments strays into something that is not necessarily supportable by data. However, the other part of this statement is supportable by data. Because what the phrase that he uses is so amorphous, so malleable, which is that some. And so, that's not most. And in fact in his comment, he says that he does not believe that most of the opposition they receive is animated by racism. However, he says some. So, if that becomes, you know, how do you quantify some? What does that mean? And right now we don't have any data to back that -- to put a number to that.

You know, what percentage is that? Is that one percent, five percent, 10 percent? Whatever the percentage is. And I think the President has made a very strong argument in the interview that he did before the Holder interview where he also said that some, though not all, or not even most of the opposition they receive has some racial element. However, he says that he probably also gets a boost from the idea of race surrounding his presidency. I think we can't unweave the fabric of race from American society.

LEMON: I want to get Jason in on this. Because Jason, you wrote an op-ed. And it's in "The Wall Street Journal." Here is what you said. You said in 2008, Barack Obama outperformed both Al Gore in 2000 and John Kerry in 2004 among white voters in states like Texas and the Carolinas. Has it occurred to Mr. Holder that criticism of the President might be due to his performance and not his skin color? Was it Mr. Obama already black when he was elected in 2008 and reelected again in 2012? You said the same thing to me on CNN yesterday. Do you think the White House is using the President's race as a scapegoat to deflect from his policies? And is that responsible politics?

JASON RILEY, AUTHOR, "PLEASE STOP HELPING US": I think it's quite clear that that's exactly what is going on. He says not all of it is racially driven, but enough of it is to complain about it on national television. The issue here isn't whether racism still exists in the country. And the issue isn't whether it's ever appropriate for the President or the Attorney General to talk about race. The issue is whether this administration is exploiting racial divisions in this country for political purposes, namely, to turn out minority voters in November. I think they are. And I think given this country's racial history, it's shameful.

LEMON: How would you have Eric Holder and the President answer a question, then, if he is asked about it in an interview, how would you have him answer it without talking about race when he is asked about race?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, by not stoking the fire when it comes to the issue of race baiting. I mean, what he basically did is a shot across the bow saying if you criticize us too much, you might be a racist. I mean, that's what some means in that scenario.

BLOW: That is not what some means in that scenario. You just made that up.

LEMON: Hang on, Ben. Hold on. Stop, stop, stop, stop.

FERGUSON: Let me finish.

LEMON: That's disingenuous.

FERGUSON: Let me finish. Let me finish what I'm saying. It's not disingenuous. You and I disagree on it but let me make my point here. The President of the United States of America I think is smart enough, and so is Eric Holder to know that when you're in political trouble and you come out there and you throw out some and you go fishing saying, that well, when people say things like, you know, that this or like that, there could be a racial tone, like changing America. Democrats have been saying that for years. Republicans have been saying it for years, taking back this country. Almost every democratic presidential candidate, you can find a tape of them saying it. No one said they were being racist when they said it. And so that's where race comes in.

LEMON: Ben, isn't it all about context though? Isn't it all about context?

FERGUSON: No. It's all about they want it to be racist when a republican says it to use for political gain. It has nothing 20 do with context. When Hillary Clinton came out and she said, I want to take this country back, she was running in a primary against Barack Obama who is African-American. Not one person said that this white woman was being --

LEMON: Hang on, as I said, context was everything. She said she wanted to take the country back from the radical right.

BLOW: Right.

LEMON: Go ahead.

BLOW: And here is where the facts, where people just started to beat the facts --

FERGUSON: And when the Republicans say it do, you hear what they say?

BLOW: And disregard the fax. And I think Ben has done it, and I think Jason, you have done it basically by ignoring the fact that in the primaries with Hillary Clinton during the exit polls, particularly in states like Ohio, they actually ask the question whether or not your vote was based on racial reasons. Twenty percent of people in Ohio said yes to that. Six percent of those people voted for Hillary Clinton. The idea that you could say because Barack Obama increased the margins from carry either the previous election.

LEMON: Let Jason respond. BLOW: Just ignore that there is actual data that shows that race

did show up in the electoral process is actually --

LEMON: Let Jason get in. Jason, go.

RILEY: Here are some facts that the President and the Attorney General are ignoring. In 2012, the black voter turnout rate exceeded the white voter turnout rate. Even in states with some of the toughest voter ID laws in the country. If Republicans --

RILEY: Because of the tougher ID laws. When you try to take something away from somebody, they actually exercise their rights.

BLOW: If the Republicans are suppressing the black vote, where is the evidence?

RILEY: When you try to take away something from someone, it makes them want to do it more. And that is how those suppressive laws backfired on Republicans. And so now what you see is they're trying to do even more --

(CROSSTALK)

BLOW: So Republicans are trying to repress the black vote. They're just incompetent.

LEMON: I've got to get to a break, everyone.

RILEY: What the Justice Department is doing is actually combating that.

LEMON: OK. I've got to get to the break. Stay with me, everybody. When we come right back, Dick Cheney calls President Obama the worst president of his lifetime, and even goes after a former president. More on that, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Are President Obama's critics across the aisle hurting the President, or is all this talk about impeachment actually working for the White House? Back with me now, Charles Blow, Ben Ferguson and Jason Riley.

OK, let's talk again. Jason, Sarah Palin calling for the President's impeach. Karl Rove thinking that's exactly what the White House wants. I want you to take a listen about what Dick Cheney told our Jake Tapper today about impeachment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, ABC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Your successor as vice president nominee in 2008 Sarah Palin recently called for the impeachment of President Obama. What do you think about that?

FMR. VICE PRES. DICK CHENEY (R), UNITED STATES: I'm not prepared at this point to call for the impeachment of the President. I think he is the worst president of my lifetime. I fundamentally disagree with him. I think he is doing a lot of things wrong. I'm glad to see that the House Republicans are challenging him at least legally at this point. But I think that gets to be a bit of a distraction, just like the impeachment of Bill Clinton did.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So Jason, you think the White House wants to keep this impeachment talk going as a distraction?

RILEY: Absolutely. I would go further than Dick Cheney, though. I think the lawsuit is also a distraction. These are attempts to criminalize political differences. And what Republicans should be focused on is winning elections, not trying to drum up legal charges against the President or push for impeachment. I don't think anything that the President has done amounts to high crimes.

LEMON: OK, Charles, here is something else that Dick Cheney had to say that is making headlines. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: You have said that Hillary Clinton you think would have been a better president than Barack Obama. She and you --

CHENEY: Jimmy Carter might have been a better president than Barack Obama. And I didn't think I would ever say that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: So the depth of his dislike to the President is pretty clear there. I mean, is this something a vice president should be doing about two former presidents? George Bush has stayed quietly above the fray. And should he be doing the same thing?

BLOW: Yes, I don't know if he is above it or below it or wherever, he sought of sight, though. And I think that's a classy move. I think that the Republicans have plenty of operatives who could be doing this. I don't think you need to have a former vice president, particularly the previous vice president to be constantly on the attack, constantly kind of nudging the current administration. There is something about it to me that seems rather unseemly. I don't think that, you know, he must get something out of it. He must enjoy it on some level. He gets a lot of blow back from it. But he continues to do it anyway with his daughter. So he must enjoy it. But I don't think it necessarily helps the debate. I don't think it helps the Republicans at all.

LEMON: OK. Ben, that leaves me perfectly -- hang on, you'll get your chance, into the next sound bite that I want you to listen to. Dick Cheney explaining why he is becoming more vocal on political issues. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHENEY: I'm 73 years old. Every day I get is up a gift. I was

an in-stage heart failure two years ago. I got a new heart. It does wonders for your attitude. But from my perspective, I feel very strongly that these things need to be said. And if I don't say them, I don't know who else will from the standpoint of the Republican Party or somebody who has my background and experience over the last 40 years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Ben, there something to saying you know what? You had your chance for eight years, or whoever long you're in politics, you're retired, you're out of it. Now have a seat.

FERGUSON: Two perks to being Dick Cheney. One, you were not the president. You were the vice president.

LEMON: That's arguable.

FERGUSON: So you are allowed to come out and still talk. And I think that's one of the perks. The other thing is this. I love how we always wish that politicians would give blunt answers and not pc answers and actually answer the question that they're asked about. We always complain about people that, you know, run around something or don't want to give their opinion. He is giving his opinion. He is being blunt. He is answering the actual questions, and then we still want to criticize him for it. I like it.

I think it's a breath of fresh air. I think he is being bold and blunt. He's being consistent with his career. And he is the vice president of the United States of America. He is saying look, I almost died. This is what I've done with my life. You want to talk to me about it, I'm not going to dodge a question. And you may not like what he says. But I like the fact that he is willing to be man enough to actually do it and say it and stand by his convictions. I think it should be applauded.

LEMON: Hey, Jason. You know, people want to hear Bill Clinton all the time. He speaks out all the time.

RILEY: All the time.

LEMON: But what are Republicans, how do they feel behind the scenes about Dick Cheney speaking out?

RILEY: Well, I sit around wondering what happened to the Dick Cheney wing of the GOP. And I think we have a president who sort of said I want a light footprint. I want to withdraw from the world. And we see the result of that. When you try as the leader of the free world not to lead, or to lead from behind.

LEMON: Absolutely.

RILEY: I think it leads to very bad outcomes. We're seeing that play out. And there aren't a lot of people in the GOP who sort of want to shoot spitballs at the President. But no one is coming up with an alternative, other than a few people. You still have your Lindsey Grahams, you still have your John McCain's. But a lot of the GOP I think has been a little bit cowed. And I wish that the Cheney wing of the GOP would make a resurgence. I think the world could use it right now.

BLOW: So, that's a damning statement about the GOP. And it came up in Cheney's comments himself. He said that if I don't say it at my age, then nobody will. If there is no one in the entire Republican Party who could be making the case who is actively engaged in republican politics now and acted an actual elected official who is a republican who could say what Dick Cheney is saying who is a part of the process in the game right now, but that's a sad statement about the Republican Party.

LEMON: Thank you guys, we'll have to leave it there. Thank you very much. If you ever use your couch cushions to build a fort back in the day, you had your very own little country at least for a few minutes. Next, we're going to talk with one dad who is building his little princess a real kingdom.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: I guess you could call this a game of thrones. Jeremiah Heaton has laid claim to 800 square miles of land in Eastern Africa so his daughter can be a real princess. There you see him. Planting the flag right there.

So joining me now is Jeremiah Heaton and his daughter, her Royal Highness Princess Emily. How you doing, Princess Emily?

EMILY, DAUGHTER OF JEREMIAH HEATON: Good.

LEMON: Good. How does it feel to be a member of the royal family?

EMILY: Exciting.

LEMON: She is a princess of few words. Little girls often grow up, Jeremiah, watching Disney films and they dream of one day becoming a princess, obviously. You made Emily's dream come through by getting her an actual kingdom. So, how did you go about actually doing that?

JEREMIAH HEATON, CLAIMS LAND IN AFRICA SO DAUGHTER CAN BE PRINCESS: Well, over the winter, we were in her room playing, and as children do sometimes, they go into a very serious tone. And I could tell her demeanor had changed. And after a moment of silence, she looked at me and she said daddy, will I ever be a real princess? And, you know, you never as a parent want to tell a child they can't be something. If she had asked a question if she could be a doctor or lawyer, the answer most certainly would have been yes. And so I responded with yes as a reply. And being a parent that doesn't like to make false promises to their children, after I had said those words to her, I knew that I had to act in some way to try to honor that.

LEMON: So you can actually make the claim to this land? I mean, doesn't someone already own it? Explain the area to us and why you chose it?

HEATON: Well, the area is along the Southern Egyptian border and the northern Sudan border. And it's a by-product of a colonial -- British colonial dispute over a boundary. And basically, Britain drew the line in 1899. And three years later, Egypt decided that they wanted to move the line to the 22nd parallel. And the piece of ground that is contested between the two countries is the Hala'ib Triangle which is actually to the region of Bir Tawil. And because of the conflict and the way the boundary situation is, the debate has been over the Hala'ib Triangle, which is a far more valuable and larger piece of land and Bir Tawil for over 100 years has been left in the dustbin of governance, and it has been unclaimed. And so, it was very exciting to learn that it was still able to be the last piece of ground on earth that could be claimed.

LEMON: You went to Bir Tawil I think it was last month, and you planted -- there is a picture of you planting the flag on the Rocky Hill there. It's Emily's seventh birthday. What does that feel like? I mean, it must be a pretty odd situation, a pretty odd feeling to claim, you know, a stake to this land and then to make your daughter the princess?

HEATON: Well, there is no question that in this modern age to be engaged in a process like this that we typically associate with the later period of time is very unique. And it was very surprising to learn that there actually was still a piece of ground on earth of this size that was ungoverned. And unpopulated. So, you know, it's been very interesting.

LEMON: You have certainly set the bar high for a lot of dads. A lot of dads in this studio oh, my gosh, a pony, I thought that was, you know, the ultimate. So and I'm sure a lot of people are asking, Emily, your friends are asking their parents to become princesses too. So tell what's it feels like to be a princess and who do you want in your court?

EMILY: It feels exciting.

LEMON: Again, it was exciting. All right. So then, who is the best dad in the world? I'll ask you that?

EMILY: My dad.

LEMON: Your dad. All right. Thank you, Emily. Thank you, Jeremiah. Your highness. Appreciate it. Thank you both.

HEATON: Well, thank you very much. And I appreciate your time. And thank you for having us on the show tonight. And we've got to take Emily and get her into bed now.

LEMON: All right. Thank you. We'll be right back, everyone.

HEATON: Thank you, have a great evening.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) LEMON: CNN tonight. Tomorrow, the stories that you will be

talking about tomorrow, storms packing heavy rain, making a mess for air travel all along the East Coast.

Tonight, it could affect travel tomorrow as well. Thousands of flights canceled or delayed from the Carolinas to New England.

That's it for me tonight. I'm Don Lemon. Thanks for watching. "AC360" starts right now.