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UN Security Council Approves Resolution Demanding Immediate Access to MH17 Crash Site

Aired July 21, 2014 - 16:00   ET


RICHARD QUEST, HOST: And there we leave the United Nations Security Council. You've just been listening to the Russian ambassador to the UN.

He said that it was an un -- he was determined to make it non- controversial, having the Security Council already voted on the Australian draft calling for immediate access to the site for an international,

independent investigation and most crucially, for the human remains of those on MH17 to be released to the custody urgently for full respect and

dignified burial.

Richard Roth joins us now from the UN with an analysis of what we've just been hearing. Listening, Richard, what struck you most so far.

RICHARD ROTH, CNN SENIOR UN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think at the end, there, the audience heard the pithy, blunt, and anger that's been inside

the Security Council since the Ukraine crisis began, and it's been lingering for years over Syria.

The Russian ambassador personally attacking the US ambassador, Samantha Power, who had harsh words for Moscow. Samantha Power earlier in

her presentation saying if Moscow is not going to be part of the solution, it's part of the problem, and telling Russia that President Putin, naming

him by name, could call back the separatists, who she says are blocking access to the site and allowing victims to be desecrated.

Ambassador Churkin mentioned a downing of an aircraft with the deaths of 78 people approximately 2001, 2002. He said we understand how the

victims' families feel.

But nevertheless, this was a 15-to-nothing vote, one of the first agreements on Ukraine since the start of that conflict. It's a resolution,

Richard, the strongest form --

QUEST: Right.

ROTH: -- of diplomatic language. It's just as usual, the question will come down to enforcement and how much true access investigators will

have, and are they ever going to get a look at an anti-missile -- aircraft battery if it indeed was moved.

QUEST: Richard, I read the resolution, the draft resolution as put forward by the Australians. There's lots of the usual "resolved,"

"decided," "demanded," "considered," but as I looked at the resolution, I can't really work out what its core is. What does it want to happen?

ROTH: Well, it seemed to time out with slightly better access at the site, the US ambassador saying it was only this morning that the Russian

president followed through on his promises and called off some of the separatists.

They always have to water down the language somewhat to get a unanimous vote. They didn't want to get a Russian veto. Then Soviet Union

vetoed in 1983 the shoot down -- when the shoot down of that Korean airplane over the Soviet Union, the Council tried to condemn Moscow, and

that was vetoed.

They didn't want to have a repeat of that, but as we've seen with Syria, they've been passing resolutions --

QUEST: Right.

ROTH: -- saying there should be humanitarian access, and it still doesn't happen. So, keep reading that resolution. Maybe it will be lived

up to.

QUEST: And finally, as you look at the makeup of the council at the moment, or even just -- where do you believe the sympathies of the council

are? And I'm not in any shape or form taking you down the road of, obviously the victims come first. But on the political front, where are

the sympathies within the council?

ROTH: It's overwhelmingly with Ukraine, especially on this issue. And even the current president of the council from Rwanda noted with

language you never hear before the vote, understanding the importance of this issue, it actually meant the council got personal.

It was somehow, even though thousands have died in other crises, a dramatic downing of a plane crash seemed to galvanize the council a little.

You had the foreign minister of Australia flying in, rushing here, and she spoke.

So, the sympathies are with the families of the victims, but who's stepping up to take on Moscow should the Russians in any way be linked to

this disaster? That's another thing outside of this chamber.

QUEST: Richard Roth, thank you for the analysis. Richard Roth at the United Nations, appreciated.

Now, just to remind you what we've just been listening, the ambassador from Russia speaking at the United Nations a short while ago, defending, to

some extent, Russia's position, but ultimately voting along with everybody else, a unanimous vote, 15-to-nothing, in favor of the draft resolution.

This is what ambassador Churkin said.


CHURKIN (through translator): Russia, for its part, stands ready to provide any assistance necessary in organizing and conducting impartial

international investigations. Russian military members and civilian bodies have already provided -- been provided with the necessary instructions

here. We stand ready to provide experts for participation in investigations. However, there can be no jumping to conclusions, nor

political statements here.


QUEST: Now, let's go to the crash investigation and get some more details. Ivan Watson, now, joins me from Donetsk. Ivan, we have much to

cover, because I want to take the opportunity to bring viewers up to date.

We've just taken the United Nations' side of it. Now I need to know, as I understand it -- and please correct me where I'm wrong -- we've go the

train with the bodies, we have investigators arriving, and we have more access being to the OSCE. So, tell me where we need to go.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's right. The train has departed. It's supposedly on its way here to Donetsk, this

rebel-controlled city. And then it is expected to cross front lines from rebel-held territory to Ukrainian government-controlled territory to the

city of Kharkiv, where presumably Dutch planes would then carry the bodies back to Amsterdam for eventual repatriation to the countries where they


Now, the Malaysian delegation that's on the ground here in Donetsk, according to the Malaysian government, was supposed to receive the black

boxes from the separatists two hours ago, 9:00 PM local time. We do not have confirmation that that has taken place yet, though we do see that

there has been communication between the small Malaysian delegation here and the separatist leadership.

And then, the next step in this arrangement is presumably for more investigators to get to the scene of the crash zone. We know that Dutch

forensic experts were allowed to go to that area today, as well as the OSCE international monitors, who have been accompanied by some Ukrainian civil

aviation experts. Richard?

QUEST: And -- thank you, Ivan. And I see earlier today the prime minister of Malaysia, Prime Minister Najib Razak, put out a statement

saying that he'd spoken to Alexander Borodai, who's in command of the region where the tragedy occurred.

So, a lot of the events of what we're seeing now come about from direct negotiations, not only between Ukraine, maybe, and the rebels, but

also between Malaysia and the rebels that want to basically get the bodies as quickly as possible.

WATSON: It was interesting. The Malaysian prime minister in his statement said that he, too, at times wanted to speak out more because of

anger and grief that he was feeling, as well as the rest of Malaysia, but that he felt that sometimes it's more appropriate and you can get more done

with a softer, quieter diplomatic approach, and citing this agreement as an example of that, as proof of that.

Meanwhile, other prime ministers whose countries have lost citizens, such as the Netherlands, losing more than 190 citizens aboard this flight,

Australia, losing some 27 citizens aboard this flight, have been much more critical of the rebels. The Australian prime minister going so far as to

say that they are, effectively, criminals who've been left in control of the crime zone.

There's another added element here, Richard, which is the ongoing fighting. Here in Donetsk, we've been listening to artillery fire all day

long, and people have been fleeing the fighting, as you'll see, in this report.

QUEST: We're showing that report a little bit later, Ivan.

WATSON: I'm afraid we don't have that.

QUEST: No, not to worry, not to worry.


QUEST: Ivan, finally, when -- when the train arrives and it's into the custody of the Ukrainians and then, ultimately, the Dutch, I think it's

probably reasonable to assume that for the first time, we will start to see these poor bodies of victims being treated with the dignity that they

deserve. Would you agree?

WATSON: We would hope so. The -- leaving them out in fields for several days under the hot sun, stacking them in train cars -- there has

been a great deal of criticism coming from the Malaysians, the Australians, the Dutch, all of the countries involved in the outside world.

And I think some embarrassment, as well, coming from Ukrainians themselves and efforts by some of the communities. And recall that these

are very rural communities, primarily involved in the agricultural sector, in coal mining, which is the main industry here.

People who have been very concerned and, in some cases, embarrassed about this incident and trying to show sympathy and to show some kind of

dignity for this, Richard.

QUEST: Ivan Watson, who is in Donetsk. Ivan, please, the moment there's more that you get details on on the train and the situation,

please, do come back, and we'll take you immediately. Ivan, joining us there.

We're also watching -- let's go back to the United Nations. We're expecting the Dutch ambassador at the UN, who is due to speak very shortly.

The Netherlands foreign minister, maybe either the ambassador or the foreign minister that will speak, said his country will not rest until

justice is served.

When we hear from the ambassador, we will bring it to you, as indeed when we hear from any of the major players as they address the United

Nations Security Council.

Frans Timmermans is the Netherlands' foreign minister. He's in New York to -- I beg your pardon, we're going to go straight to the United


FRANS TIMMERMANS, NETHERLANDS FOREIGN MINISTER: We're here to discuss a tragedy, the downing of a commercial airliner, and the death of 298

innocent people. Men, women, and a staggering number of children lost their lives on their way to their holiday destinations, their homes, loved

ones, or international obligations, such as an important HIV/AIDS conference in Australia.

Since Thursday, I've been thinking. How horrible must have been the final moments of their lives when they knew the plane was going down? Did

they lock hands with their loved ones? Did they hold their children close to their hearts? Did they look each other in the eyes one final time in a

wordless good-bye? We will never know.

The demise of almost 200 of my compatriots has left a hole in the heart of the Dutch nation. It's caused grief, anger, and despair. Grief

for the loss of the loved ones. Anger for the outrage of the downing of a civilian airplane. And despair after witnessing the excruciatingly slow

process of securing the crash site and recovering the remains of the victims.

It is fitting that this august council should take position on this matter, and I welcome the adoption of today's resolution of the United

Nations Security Council, which was tabled by Australia, which the Netherlands co-sponsored. I thank the countries which expressed support

for it, and I particularly want to thank Julie Bishop personally. Julie, we are in this together.

Mr. President, for the Netherlands, one priority clearly stands out above all others. Bring the victims' remains home. It is a matter of

human decency that remains should be treated with respect and that recovering victims' remains should be done without any delay.

The last couple of days, we've received very disturbing reports of bodies being moved about and looted for their possessions. Just for one

minute, not addressing you as representatives of your countries, but as husbands and wives, fathers and mothers, just imagine that you first get

the news that your husband was killed. And then within two or three days, you see images of some thug removing the wedding band from their hands.

Just imagine that this could be your spouse.

To my dying day, I will not understand that it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult jobs, and that human

remains should be used in a political game. If somebody here around the table talks about a political game, this is the political game that has

been played with human remains, and it is despicable. I hope the world will not have to witness this again anytime in the future.

Images of children's toys being tossed around, luggage being opened, and passports, including passports of children, being shown on television.

They are turning our grief and mourning into anger of a whole nation.

We demand unimpeded access to the terrain. We demand respectful treatment of the crash site. We demand dignity for the victims and the

multitudes who mourn their loss.

I call on the international community on this Security Council, on anyone with influence on the situation on the ground, allow us to bring the

victims' remains home to their loved ones without any further delay. They deserve to be home.

As we are currently taking the lead in the forensic examination of the human remains, I pledge that the Netherlands will do its utmost to make

sure that all remains will be identified and returned home, wherever that home may be.

We will work intensively with all countries and international organizations involved to make this happen as soon as possible. Mr.

President, I also welcome the setting up of a proper investigation into the cause of the tragedy of MH17 as envisaged in today's resolution.

The Netherlands has agreed to assume a leading role in such an investigation, in close cooperation with the relevant countries, the United

Nations, and ICAO. I am fully aware of the great responsibility we now take upon ourselves, and I give you my personal commitment that we will

discharge this responsibility to the best of our abilities.

As far as the safety and security of the site and the international investigators is concerned, I underline the responsibility the Security

Council took upon itself with today's resolution to take additional measures if circumstances so require.

Once the investigation ascertains who was responsible for the downing of the flight MH17, accountability and justice must be pursued and

delivered. We owe it to the victims. We owe it to justice. We owe it to humanity. Please, provide full cooperation so that justice can be served.

We will not rest until all facts are known and justice is served. I thank you, Mr. President.

GASANA: I thank his excellency, Minister Timmermans for his statement. I now give the floor to the representative of Malaysia. You

have the floor, sir.

DATUK HUSSEIN HANIFF, MALAYSIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Thank you, Mr. President. I wish to acknowledge to the president the

foreign minister of Australia, Luxembourg, and Netherlands.

Mr. President, I wish to thank you for giving my delegation the opportunity to address the council at this point in time. I wish to also

thank all the council members, in particular the delegation of Australia, for their efforts in coordinating and presenting the resolution. We

welcome the unanimous adoption of the resolution 21-stroke-66 by the Security Council today.

Mr. President, as one of the countries most severely impacted by the tragedy of MH17, Malaysia attaches great importance to this resolution.

For my delegation, this resolution lays the groundwork for the approach to be taken by the international community, in particular, the United Nations

system and its mechanisms, towards addressing the many questions raised from the downing of MH17.

I wish to underscore that no amount of measures will ever compensate nor assuage the grief and suffering of the families and loved ones of the

victims who were onboard MH17. It is incumbent upon us as members of the United Nations family to honor the victims by undertaking a full, thorough,

and independent investigation into the downing of MH17.

Mr. President, last Friday, during the council's emergency meeting on Ukraine, I had informed the council that Malaysia would immediately

dispatch a team to Kiev with a view to assisting in the investigation on MH17.

This team arrived in Kiev on Saturday, 19 July. The Malaysian team in Kiev has joined other national teams from the Netherlands, the United

Kingdom, and United States in what is known as the Joint International Investigation Team.

Malaysia regrets to note that as of today, the Joint International Investigation Team has yet to be given full access to the crash site.

Malaysia finds this lack of full access unacceptable and reiterates the call on all states and actors in the region to cooperate fully in the

conduct of the international investigation, including being given immediate and unrestricted access to the crash site and for full guarantees to be

provided for the safety and security of the investigation teams.

At the same time, all parties must exert all efforts to preserve the integrity of the crash site with a view to facilitating the work of the

investigation teams. Such guarantees must also extend to the dignified and respectful treatment of the bodies and remains of the victims.

For Malaysia, one of the key mission priorities for our investigation team is the recovery, identification, and repatriation of the bodies and

remains of the victims. This is to ensure that their families and loved ones to have closure and that the victims are accorded the dignity of a

proper burial.

Mr. President, Flight MH17 was a civilian airliner. If it is subsequently established that the plane was, indeed, shot down, we demand

that those responsible for downing the plane must be held to account and be swiftly brought to justice.

We believe that the present resolution paves the way for such efforts, and as such, we have given our strong support by co-sponsoring the

resolution 21-stroke-66. We now look forward to its full implementation by all concerned parties. I thank you, Mr. President.

GASANA: I thank the representative of Malaysia for his statement. I give now the floor to the representative of Indonesia. You have the floor,


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, Mr. President. The tragedy of the Malaysian Airlines --

QUEST: That is the various ambassadors and foreign ministers. The most powerful, of course, coming from the Dutch foreign minister, Frans

Timmermans, who you'll hear from later in the program as well. The -- the clear message from all the countries involved is one of simplicity, which

is, whatever else, whatever the politics of this situation, allow the bodies to be brought home.


QUEST: Hello, I'm Richard Quest. This is CNN, and on this network, the news will always come first.

Pro-Russian officials are expected to give the Malaysian government the black boxes from Malaysia Airlines 17 later today. At the same time,

the victims' bodies are due to arrive in Ukraine's eastern city of Kharkiv tonight. They're currently on a train. The foreign minister of the

Netherlands told me he's outraged by the delay in collecting the human remains.


TIMMERMANS: I know that there can be political controversy, I know that there can be a war on. I know that there can be all sorts of

difference between parties, but victims, innocent victims, more than 80 children, their remains are in a field, and it takes days to take them out

-- that is an outrage. I cannot understand that this is possible.


QUEST: And we're going straight back to the United Nations. The Ukraine ambassador speaking.

YURIY SERGEYEV, UKRAINIAN AMBASSADOR TO THE UN: Our deepest condolences to the families and friends of those who were killed. Today,

whole Ukraine is mourning. Ukraine is approaching the embassies of Netherlands, Malaysia, Australia, Indonesia, United Kingdom, Germany,

Belgium, Philippines, and Canada in order to lay down flowers and express their sorrow.

Mr. President, we would like to thank the delegation of Australia for proposing the draft resolution on investigation of the downing of civilian

aircraft on international flight Malaysia Airlines MH17 in Donetsk region of Ukraine, which is co-sponsored by the delegation of Ukraine.

We believe that this resolution will help facilitate a full, thorough, and independent international investigation into the incident in accordance

with international civil aviation guidelines.

Mr. President, having demonstrated maximum openness possible, Ukraine immediately after the crash, on the same day, invited ICAO, Interpol as

well, as representatives of all countries who lost their nationals in this tragedy to participate in an investigation, as well as representatives of

the Russian Federation. Some of them have already arrived to Ukraine and studied their work in Kharkiv. President Poroshenko ordered that all

military activities be immediately ceased in the 40-kilometer zone surrounding the crash site to allow for security and safety of the

international investigation. We therefore call on the Russian Federation to use all its influence on the pro-Russian armed groups operating

illegally in Donetsk region in order to stop military activities on their side and ensure a secure access to the crash site. We assume that the

investigation should not only allowto establish the technical cause of the crash, but also the other important circumstances, namely, who had actually

fired the missile, who the high-precision long-range weapons got to the hands of illegal armed groups? Where did the weapons come from?

Mr. President, in accordance Chicago Convention as it was stated in the report of the French Delegation, Ukraine has a right to head

investigation procedure. It is also our right to share this leadership. The prime minister of Ukraine, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, stated today Ukraine is

ready to transfer the role of coordinator in investigating the crash over the Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 to the kingdom of the Netherlands at their

request, the minister stated today in his address. The Prime Minister Yatsenuk said in his remarks, "As the site that suffered more, the

Netherlands may lead the investigation in close coordination and cooperation with all other parties. All Ukrainian law enforcement bodies

and international partners are already involved in conducting an all- encompassing transparent and full-fledged international investigation of the tragedy."

Mr. President, particularly we strongly condemn the (sardonic) acts committed by illegal armed groups controlling the crash site. According to

reports of local citizens of Alchevsk Lugansk region saw valuables of the victims of the plane crash were brought to terrorists to their city under

cover of a previously stolen ambulance car where they were boasting their trophies.

Children bags, suitcases and foreign cash that they managed to collect and steal from the crash site. This demonstrates an unhuman nature of

those who call themselves People's Republics. The fact that during last three days, the illegal armed groups had been impeding safe, secure and

unrestricted access to the crash site and the surrounding area for the appropriate investigation authorities we see in others is a demonstration

that they are trying to hide some evidence from the eyes of international community.

Mr. President, let me quote the president of Ukraine. Start quoting - "Having shot down the aircraft, militants committed three crimes -

terrorist act of firing a missile at a civilian aircraft, offensive mistreatment of the dead bodies, particularly their removal as well as well

as admonition of the evidence (ph) and hindering the work of not only the Ukrainian Commission of Inquiry, but also the international experts of the

ICAO Commission" -- end of quote. The so-called Lugansk International Republic must be recognized as terrorist organizations - not only in

Ukraine but also in the whole world. Cooperations there must be considered as support for terrorism.

Mr. President, continuing illegal terrorist military activity has been possible only due to the Russian Federation's direct and uncovered support

despite continued calls by Ukraine and international community to stop. Although official Moscow has been constantly and tirelessly insisting that

it was not involved in the situation in Donbas region, the irrefutable facts clearly indicate the opposite. Russian citizens are among the

leadership of the terrorists groups. Heavy armaments and ammunition continues to be supplied from the Russian side of the state border.

Just yesterday, the column of heavy armored battle vehicles attempted to break into the Ukraine through the border from the Russian territory by

border checkpoint Izvarino. Russia's finance dignitaries, numerous provocations are happening on the Russian-Ukrainian border. So what Russia

is declaring does not comply with their actions. Ukraine demands that the Russian side immediately cease provocations on the state border of Ukraine,

stop hindering efforts of the Ukrainian side and the international community to put an end to terrorism and other violence in Donetsk and

Lugansk obelisk (ph) of Ukraine. Return to the President Poroshenko peace plan - withdraw its forces from Ukrainian border and stop threatening peace

and security in our country, region and the whole - and the world as a whole. I thank you, Mr. President.

EUGENE-RICHARD GASANA, RWANDAN REPRESENTATIVE OF THE UNITED NATIONS: I thank the representative of Ukraine for his statement. I give now the

floor to the representative of Belgium. You have the floor.


allowing me to explain the position of the Belgian government with regard to the resolution that has been adopted today and which Belgium -

QUEST: Leaving the United Nations for the moment. We will of course be watching very closely on the Security Council. Richard Roth joins me, a

U.N. correspondent. We need to go through some of what we've been hearing, Richard. I can't recall - I've heard politicians, many of them, address

the United Nations, but the force of the Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans' words really were something else.

ROTH: I agree. I mean, saying thing as like his emotions observing - I think it was a photo with - using - he used the word `thug' removing a

wedding ring from one of the victims. He said, "To my dying day-". I think he just can't believe the inability to get access to the site. Allow

us, please, -- let us bring our victims home without delay. You do not hear this type of diplomatic language at the U.S. Security Council table.

Very personal and -

QUEST: Richard, I must interrupt you - forgive me. We're going straight back to the United Nations. I think the Dutch minister's


TIMMERMANS: -- national level. We have backing for three things. First of all, that we can bring our compatriots back home wherever that

home may be. Secondly, that there will be an thorough, independent international investigation into what has happened. And thirdly, that

there will be no impunity. Those responsible for this despicable act will be brought to justice. And Australia and the Netherlands stand firm in

their commitment that we will not rest until our people are brought home, until a thorough investigation is committed, until those responsible are

put to justice. Thank you very much.

MICHELLE NICHOLS, CORRESPONDENT WITH REUTERS: Thank you, ministers. Michelle Nichols from Reuters. A question for you both. What makes you

think that the armed groups on the ground will listen to this resolution? And a question for you, Minister Bishop on is Australia considering barring

President Putin from the G20 in November over this incident?

JULIE BISHOP, AUSTRALIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: This resolution has been passed unanimously by the most premier international group that we could

bring it before and this includes Russia who we know has significant influence over the separatists that have control of the territory, the

subject of the crash site. So with Russia's adoption of the resolution, it's incumbent upon Russia and all parties to ensure that the intent of

this resolution's implemented. As far as the G20 is concerned that is in November, we are waiting to see the implementation of this resolution to

ensure that we can achieve its objectives. And that is to ensure that the bodies are treated with respect and dignity and we're able to achieve

justice. That's our focus at present.

Male Reporter: A question for both of you. Do either of you have an opinion on the Russian statement that it has in fact been cooperating to

date? And further, -- I'll leave it there.

TIMMERMANS: Well we haven't seen - until today - a firm commitment from President Putin. Today is the first day that he made a public

statement that the separatists should cooperate with the international investigation. Where I find mind boggling is that you would accuse the

Ukrainians of being responsible and at the same time you would not act when separatists are doing everything to make an independent inquiry impossible

or more difficult. So I hope that Russia would now feel its responsibility, act upon its responsibility. If it doesn't, it's going to

have an increasingly isolated position in the international world.

BISHOP: What we have witnessed over the last five days -- the contamination of the site, the removal of bodies, the removal of evidence,

the trampling over bodies and parts of the plane could have all been prevented. This did not have to be. And Russia has the influence over the

separatists and could have enforced an appropriate crash site and created the conditions for this investigation to have been carried out immediately.

Male Reporter: What makes you believe that you can do some of your investigations if everything has been taken? Parts of the missile, and

took you - took this body - four days to come with a resolution. What's happening?

BISHOP: Well in terms of the resolution, we moved as quickly as we could. I outlined the timeframe, and from the moment we heard about the

crash and gathered its implications, we moved to draft a resolution, circulate it, negotiate it and then on the first available day - Monday -

we've adopted it unanimously. As far as the evidence is concerned, that will be a matter for the investigators. We've seen on 24/7 media coverage

what has been happening to the site, and so of course we have grave concerns about the integrity of the crash site. It should have been

secured like any airline crash site should be secured. It should have been secured as a crime scene and it has not been. However, we believe that

there will be sufficient evidence to enable an impartial investigation team to at least narrow the options to show what happened. We owe it to the

families to find those answers.

QUEST: The two foreign ministers - the two foreign ministers from the two countries that lost the most of their citizens - Australia - besides

Malaysia of course - Australia and the Netherlands. Richard Roth rejoins me from the U.N. Richard, I need - you've studied and spent more time at

the U.N. than is perhaps honest or decent, so I need to ask you is this different to business as usual or is it U.N.-ery?

ROTH: D I mean, the tone is different. I don't want to be too cynical - it's almost as if this time council members had their own

citizens shot out of the sky and they seem to care more. On Syria the speeches have been given, it's sort of the train left the station, it's

deadlocked, it moves on. They focus a lot on Africa. This is one of those dramatic incidents in the middle of an ongoing crisis and a lot of

Westerners involved. You - as we were - before the appearance there of the foreign ministers, we were talking about the language used. The U.K.

ambassador saying with disgust he's watching this. I'm sure outsiders would say they'd like to see Security Council members show as much concern

whether it's victims in Israel, in Gaza and other places. I think you might've noticed there the Australian foreign minister saying they'd like

to get sufficient evidence in an investigation. But perhaps acknowledging that maybe without Russia full cooperation, she said, we would at least

like to narrow the options of what happened. That may be where we're headed for at the conclusion of an aviation investigation which you have

spent much quality time on.

QUEST: Thank you, sir. Richard Roth joining us - our U.N. correspondent - joining us from the United Nations. We'll be back with

more in just a moment. This is CNN.


QUEST: One of the things we've heard about again and again in the last hour from the Security Council of the United Nations is the way in

which the bodies of those on MH17 have been left in fields and denied the dignity of a decent burial. That's in the fact that the very crash scene

itself has been compromised. Armed rebels freely roaming around the site as wreckage appears to have been poorly taped off, access by investigators

hindered, obstructed by rebels, and the bodies and the luggage according to some have been looted. And what's effectively a forensic crime scene that

has been contaminated. Robert Jensen's the chief exec of Kenyon, a firm specializing in disaster recovery and crash investigations - knows full

well the risks of holding an investigation in the middle of a conflict zone. He joins me now from London. Bob, you've never seen anything quite

like this.

ROBERT JENSEN, CEO, KENYON INTERNATIONAL EMERGENCY SERVICES: No. It's the worst-case scenario that's been made unbelievably worse. It's

intolerable and it's inexcusable for the families.

QUEST: So, now the remains - and we're not being distasteful as we discuss this - now the remains are on this train which will eventually end

up at a place where they can be flown to Amsterdam. How difficult will it be for identification?

JENSEN: Well, it's a plane crash. It was difficult to begin with, it's going to be that much harder now because they haven't been preserved,

and they haven't been treated with the respect or dignity. So, the forensics teams are interviewing families, collecting the information to

build a profile. The same thing has to happen with each of the deceased. And then those two profiles have to be matched. It's going to be harder

because there's no context from the recovery - it wasn't documented, it wasn't done properly, so a job that was difficult and was going to take

time is now going to take that much more time. It's achievable - the Dutch team is a great team. We've worked with them in many different accidents -

the same with the Australians and the other teams that are going to be there. They can do it, they're going to need time and they need realistic

expectations set by the families and they need the support. But most importantly, they need access and they need information.

QUEST: Right, now that is the two sides of it. I mean, on the one side it is the recovery of the remains so that they can be returned to

their countries, as the Dutch foreign minister said - bring our people home. But then you have the investigation which also seems likely to come

from the - from the - the Netherlands who are going to lead on this. Have we had many examples of investigations put together with one country where

many others obviously usually take part, but actually becomes an international coalition?

JENSEN: Absolutely. A lot of aviation accidents are international disasters. In fact, almost all of them are. They involve manufacturers,

representatives from governments who've had citizens onboard the aircraft, representatives of the country that certified the aircraft. Sometimes a

country may not have the capability that -

QUEST: Right, but - let me just say. Well what I'm really sort of implying in that - I understand that others get involved, but a situation

where the - ultimately the - who's running the investigation and it becomes an international investigation, not by a single country?

JENSEN: Well, I guess you could look at MH370, you can probably look at Korean Air 007. And I would stretch to think of some others. Perhaps

EgyptAir 990, but that one passed between the Egyptians and the Americans several times. So, is there precedent? Not in this prime example, but

there are other examples that are similar and related.

QUEST: Well thank you very much for joining us. Apologies we've kept you a bit shorter than - but as you can understand it's been a very busy

day at the United Nations. And we are going to stay with the United Nations where the world body has called for an immediate ceasefire to the

conflict in Gaza. The U.S. president's dispatched his top diplomat to the region. We'll be there after the break. Good evening.


QUEST: Before we leave each night we must of course talk about the other major stories. As fighting in Gaza rages, the United States is

pushing for a ceasefire. The U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry is now in Cairo. President Obama says he's instructed his secretary of state to push

for an immediate end to the fighting. On the ground, the death toll continues to rise. Israel says its forces have killed more than ten Hamas

militants. The Israeli defense force says this video shows fighters infiltrating the country through hidden tunnels. On the other side of the

border, health officials in Gaza say an Israeli airstrike on a hospital killed five people. Twenty-seven Israelis have been killed in the conflict

so far. All but two of them have been soldiers. Palestinians put the Gaza death toll at more than 500 and most of those are civilians. Ben Wedeman

joins us now from Gaza. Ben, good evening. Can you hear me?


QUEST: So, John Kerry is on his way or is just arriving in Cairo. What - I mean, you told - I think it was you - you know, both sides wanted

this fight. Both sides have now got an objective that they wish to achieve. Is it likely that John Kerry can pull them back from what they're


WEDEMAN: That's a very good question, and certainly John Kerry hasn't had much luck in the region recently. He tried for nine months to pull off

a peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians. That didn't work and he's going to have a hell of a challenge coming now. We know that he's

going to Cairo, he's going to be meeting with Egyptian and Palestinian officials. We're hearing that possibly an Israeli delegation will also be

going to Cairo. So certainly the wheels are churning to move - starting to move - yet again. Sorry, a little bit of noise behind me - just want to

make sure it's OK. The wheels are starting to move but from Hamas - from Israel - we're hearing that there's nothing yet, no great breakthrough, and

Hamas is also being very cautious. What we're seeing on the ground however is a continued intensification of the bloodshed, at this point, on both

sides. Just up the street from here a little while ago, an apartment building got hit, 11 people including four children killed. Earlier today

a hospital to the south of here was also hit by an Israeli strike. One patient and four people visiting relatives in the hospital were killed.

Israeli army says that there was a cache of rockets in the immediate vicinity -

QUEST: Right.

WEDEMAN: However, the people died on the third floor of that hospital. Richard.

QUEST: Ben Wedeman in Gaza. Ben, thank you for that, and of course as the developments of the new few hours come forward, please do keep us

informed. Allow me to recap for you the events of the past few hours. The United Nations has voted unanimously to call on full cooperation of all

nations both for the recovery of the remains of those on MH17 and for a full independent investigation into what happened. It now seems that the

Netherlands will lead not only the forensic investigation into the - those - who died, but also the aviation investigation where Ukraine has confirmed

that it is prepared to transfer the authority to the Dutch. We obviously will continue with more. Around the world, around the clock, this is CNN.


QUEST: Finally tonight, politicians are always accused of being cynical and saying whatever they need to to be reelected. Anyone who

thinks that perhaps should just listen to the Dutch foreign minister Frans Timmermans speaking at the United Nations today.


TIMMERMANS: To my dying day, I will not understand that it took so much time for the rescue workers to be allowed to do their difficult jobs,

and that human remains should be used in a political game. If somebody here around the table talks about a political game, this is the political

game that has been played with human remains, and it is despicable.


QUEST: Good night.