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At This Hour

Delta Halts Flights to Israel; Interview with Rep. Linda Sanchez

Aired July 22, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: I was going to say, we don't have indication that the airport itself is closed. Delta is not landing there. But we don't know that the airport is closed to outgoing flights. It's not.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY & AVIATION ANALYST: There is obviously evidence it's not safe. Because that pilot, or whoever made that decision, decided to go somewhere else. Other airlines flying in there now are taking a lot of risk, because they are aware of the fact that there is additional risk there.

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: You are in the MH 17 situation. On the Monday, we had the downing of a plane at 21,000 feet. That in many ways is water shed moment, before then, there wasn't the knowledge that you could. But post Monday, you have knowledge, admittedly Ukraine. It was very difficult for people to get information, but this is Israel. This is an availability to get relatively good intelligence information, and now you have major airlines, two major airlines, U.A. and Delta both saying that they don't believe it's safe.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Delta is saying it will not take off from Tel Aviv. We don't know how many more will be doing that. That will be something Israel will have to deal with coming up.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: We have a reporter that was on that flight that was diverted to Paris. We're hoping to get ahold of him. Find out what he was told and the situation there and get an idea of how this all played out for them. We'll ask the two of them to stick around.

We'll have more. We're taking a short break. We'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

PEREIRA: We have breaking news for you. Michaela Pereira, John Berman, @thishour.

We want to get to Renee Marsh.

Delta Airlines has halted flights to and from Israel. In fact, diverted a flight to Tel Aviv, from Tel Aviv to Paris where we're told the plane will land. I want to talk about the fact that this is big information and we're also expecting some other airlines to follow suit likely, yes?

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And we're awaiting confirmation on our end, but we do know from Israeli media reports that we're hearing other carriers, are following the example of Delta Airlines in which they are essentially canceling flights to Israel, again the butt of all of this is rocket fire, there's some evidence of this near the airport in Tel Aviv. They have security concerns. This is all coming on the heels of Malaysia flight 17. We are possibly seeing airliners getting more proactive. I say that just a short time ago, at the White House briefing, the spokesperson just spoke about this issue. Let me summarize it for you. The FAA has not given notice essentially restricting the airspace over Israel. What it looks like is these carriers are making the decision on their own. This is from the White House just seconds ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As it relates to the airspace in Gaza, it's my understanding that the FAA has not issued any notices related to the ongoing violence in that region of the world. It does serve to illustrate that it's individual carriers who make the decisions about their flight plans and whether or not to alter specific routes based on hostilities on the ground.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MARSH: We have confirmed here at CNN Delta Airlines are suspending flights to and from Tel Aviv. This is all stemming from a report of rocket or associated debris at the Tel Aviv airport. On top of that, we know that flight was diverted. We know there were 273 passengers on board. 17 crew members. They had to divert this plane, which was going from New York to Tel Aviv. They had to divert it to Paris, and now we're also hearing from Israeli media reports that other carriers will be doing the same. They will be stopping flights to and from Israel as a result of this security concern. Of course, this is all developing as we get more updates. Michaela and John, we'll get that to you.

BERMAN: Thanks so much. Obviously, air travel, air safety very much on everyone's minds now, particularly in airspace over conflict zones.

I'm joined here -- we're joined here by Richard Quest and David Soucie.

Gentlemen, I want to ask specifically here, in everyone's head they are thinking about what happened over Ukraine right now. This anti aircraft missile this fairly sophisticated Russian system that is suspended of shooting MH 17 from the sky. What we have in Israel is a different situation. Rocket debris found near Ben Gurion Airport. But still potentially a threat to aircraft landing there or taking off from there. Explain to me why.

QUEST: Because they are at much lower altitude and much slower speeds. There's much less maneuverability. 33,000 feet, MH 17 was a sitting duck for a surface-to-air missile but it was quite safe from my shoulder -- any shoulder launched operation. When you are coming to land, you are a much easier target, providing it's believed or known that the Hamas has the rocket capability to hit. You don't want some imagery enemy that couldn't hit you if they tried. If there's any reason to believe they could hit a target leaving or arriving at Ben Gurion, that's different.

PEREIRA: David, how does that assessment happen? You have a pilot that has filed a flight plan, has a plan to arrive at the airport there in Israel. How is that assessment made and how is that decision come about?

SOUCIE: That's the point what was said at the White House. It's not up to the airlines to have military intelligence to know what's going on on the ground. How could they possibly know that? How could they put that into their risk assessment? It's not how it works in the aviation industry. It does not.

QUEST: I'm going to prove to you the complete futility of the situation or the idiocy of the situation. Delta has banned flights to Tel Aviv because it says it's not safe. But Delta's joint venture partner, Air France, over Paris, Air France is just about to land in Tel Aviv. Turkey just about to land in Tel Aviv. Turkey is unit's alliance partner. B.A. just landed. American Airlines. One world partner. What we have now is this situation rapidly developing where you've got U.S. carriers out of an abundance of over caution, they say we're not flying. You have their European partners saying they will continue to fly.

SOUCIE: Everybody has their own risk assessments.

PEREIRA: Sure.

SOUCIE: These are their lives, maybe they have different kinds of information. Maybe Delta didn't have all the information they needed and we're exercising on the side of caution, which is admirable. That's what it should be. Every pilot and airline and operations centers has the right to throw up the flag and say this is a high risk. We're not ready to accept it until we get more information about it, until we understand completely what our risks are, what the hazards are.

BERMAN: Let's see if we can get some more information about what might be going on in Israel right now.

We'll bring in another guest, George Birnbaum, an advisor to the foreign minister of Israel and the mayor of Jerusalem.

Georgia, thank you so much for being with us.

I realize you are not there right now but I'm curious if you have any intelligence or ear to the ground about what might be going on in and around Ben Gurion right now.

GEORGE BIRNBAUM, ADVISOR TO FOREIGN MINISTER OF ISRAEL: Interestingly enough, I had family members on their way to the airport to take a U.S. Air flight to Philadelphia when they were notified that flying was canceled as well. So actually the story hit me personally as you guys were breaking the news.

I want to talk with both your guests are saying, especially Richard, you know, the missiles that are being fired by Hamas into Israel are surface missiles with absolutely no targeting capability whatsoever. They are not surface-to-air missiles. They don't have the capability of taking down an airliner and certainly there's no targeting capability. So I think what you are seeing is, yes, a super sensitive reaction to what happened on Monday over the Ukraine by the U.S. carriers, although I think the Israeli military intelligence, and government will do everything they can to soothe the fears of the carriers very soon to make them understand there really is no threat to flying in and out of Ben Gurion Airport.

PEREIRA: Do you get a sense that the situation in and around the airport is worsening or have you heard this is not an immediate threat at all? Again, we don't know where the debris or the -- even the remains of these rockets came from.

BIRNBAUM: Right. No threat at all. In other words, I think there was some debris that landed in a neighborhood into the too far from the airport. I don't know the exact proximity, but certainly not close enough to threaten the airport. The Israeli government is very sensitive. One of their function mechanisms economically is tourism. They can't afford to have the airport shut down. They are very hypersensitive to security of flights coming in and out. If there was any real threat, they would be the first ones to issue that threat assessment and let carriers know that it wasn't safe to fly in or out.

BERMAN: I'm going to bring in Hussein Ibish, a senior fellow on the American Task Force on Palestine.

Thanks so much for is being with us.

HUSSEIN IBISH, SENIOR FELLOW, AMERICAN TASK FORCE ON PALESTINE: Pleasure, thank you.

BERMAN: Obviously, one of the arguments you hear from Israel, the Israeli government repeatedly is they are under taking this action in Gaza because they have to protect themselves. That these rockets are raining down all over Israel now, some 2,000 plus at this point. Does the fact that some of them have fallen near or around the airport make that case for them?

IBISH: No, I don't think so. Because two things. It doesn't change the history of the fact that this has been tried several times before and each time it doesn't work. I mean, unless Israel were to go in and reoccupy Gaza, clearly Hamas and other extremist groups can rearm themselves and apparently very well in the subsequent years in between these flare-ups and there's the fact of what Mr. Birnbaum was saying they don't have any surface-to-air missiles all. These are unguided surface-to-surface rockets. They don't pose any threat to any aircraft.

PEREIRA: There's been great concern about the situation ramping up, more deaths on each side. We also know that Secretary of State John Kerry is said to be trying to broker a cease-fire. Are you feeling confident there's any possibility of that?

IBISH: I wouldn't use the word confident. I'm hopeful and I'm not hopeful in the next 24 or 48 hours, but I'm hopeful that by the end of the week or weekend, we could see that. You are starting to see real reasons why both Israel and Hamas will be looking for ways out, and I think the role and centrality of Egypt remains crucial here. It's mainly the -- if you can find a formula where you can figure out what Egypt can give Hamas that Hamas can accept and Egypt can live with, then you are much closer to getting a workable cease-fire that would actually hold. The other possibility is to have an open-ended humanitarian east fire that essentially gives Hamas a face-saving climb down. I think it's more likely that the Egyptian will bear fruit over the next few days and at least that's my hope.

BERMAN: I think it's a lot of people's hope that somehow there is a way out of this before too long.

Hussein Ibish, hang on for a second here.

Everyone stand by.

There's a lot more going on. A lot of developments going on right now in the Middle East. Obviously having an impact here at home including U.S. flights. We're going to discuss this more with a member of Congress right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: We're back with our breaking news about Delta Airlines halting flights in and out of Israel. We also know a flight from Tel Aviv was rerouted to Paris because of debris of some remains of a market on the runway as they approached there.

We want to bring in Democratic Congresswoman Loretta Sanchez of California. She joins us from Washington. We should point out, she's on the Armed Services Committee.

Congresswoman, really a pleasure for you to join us today.

We originally were going to talk about a completely other story. We want to get your thoughts on the situation we're seeing right now that is literally chaotic and breaking and emerging right now. Want to get your sense of if there's more that needs to be done. If you thing the FAA needs to issue some guidance on the airspace in and around Israel.

REP. LORETTA SANCHEZ, (D), CALIFORNIA: Well, let's not get this confused with what happened in Ukraine, where we saw a rocket that has, we believe we saw a rocket that has a much larger ability to go up to a higher level of 33,000 feet. We're seeing here, these rockets being fished into Tel Aviv, into Israel, are surface missiles, so they're at a much later altitude. They also aren't specific to being able to hone in to something. But it seems to me like these American airlines are at least taking a step back and trying to assess just how chaotic is the situation in Tel Aviv. I'll tell you, I have a stepdaughter and a newly born grandson there and they're going to the shelters left and right now for the last couple of weeks. Certainly things are intensifying in Israel.

BERMAN: It is interesting, as you say, these rockets don't have nearly the accuracy at all. Whether they can be aimed in fact, at all, is what we saw over Ukraine. The world has been seeing the scenes from Gaza right now, where 600-plus people have died. The U.N. estimates more than 75 percent of them are civilians. Israel says the operations they are undertaking right now in Gaza are specifically for the type of thing we are now seeing at the airport around Tel Aviv. The Israelis say they are being targeted around their nation with these rockets and that no one, they say, should have to live like this. Do you think what's going on now at the airport with this rocket debris found and now airlines deciding not to fly to or from there supports their point?

SANCHEZ: Well, certainly Israel has always held the belief that life goes on in a natural way, even amidst all this chaos, even when they had, you know, terrorism and buses being blown up, et cetera. As I said, I have a stepdaughter. They go about their way. That's really where Israel wants to be. They want to continue to tell people, come to Israel, come and do your business here. To its citizens, you're going to be safe. Certainly the Iron Dome has been instrumental in shooting these rockets out of the air before they hit something. And at some point, you have to say, how much does Hamas have to send in and how much do we have to push back. And so that's why we're seeing this ground operation by Israel. Certainly, we need to find a diplomatic effort. Too many people on both sides will be hurt in the long run.

PEREIRA: We want to say a big thank you to you for joining us @thishour. We hope you'll join us again. We do want to talk about the ongoing crisis at the border. We'd love to have you back with us @thishour to discuss that at another time.

SANCHEZ: We'll do that. Thanks so much.

PEREIRA: Thank you.

BERMAN: More news on this developing story right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: We'll get back in a moment to the breaking news on the situation in Israel with flights being redirected there and canceled out of the airport.

But the president moments ago visited the Dutch embassy to sign a condolence book for the 193 victims. Let's take a listen to what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our deepest condolences over the loss of family and friends. To express our solidarity with the people of the Netherlands with whom we've been friends and have the deepest ties for centuries. And to assure the Dutch people that we will work with them to make sure that loved ones are recovered, that a proper investigation is conducted, and that ultimately justice is done. Thank you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We thank the president for being here. There's been an outpouring of support from the American people. And I can only say on behalf of the Dutch people, we are deeply grateful, what you're doing. Thank you very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Again, an enormous tragedy for the people of Netherlands. 193 of their citizens were aboard MH-17. The president paying his respects there at the consulate in D.C.

BERMAN: And of course the shoot-down of MH flight 17, one of the major stories we're following today. The other of course, the conflict between Israel, Israel and Hamas in Gaza, which has now taken a new turn. Delta has canceled flights in and out of the airport in Tel Aviv because of what is thought to be rocket debris near the airport. Some other American airlines may follow suit. I'm joined by Richard Quest and David Soucie.

Despite what Delta is doing, give me a sense of what the Israeli airline itself is doing.

QUEST: On its Facebook page, it continues to maintain its regular flight schedules. Except for Shabbat. However, up until July -- from flights now until the 25th, you can reschedule your flight for up to six months without penalty but when you rebook there may be a booking change or charge. You can't ignore it when three of the largest airlines in the world choose to go there.

PEREIRA: Can't ignore it, David. Others will follow suit. Do you think the FAA is going to make an assessment at some point?

SOUCIE: They need to. They must. At the very least, a statement, possibly something coming out that says this is something that all airmen need to be aware of. The important part is assess what he actually saw, what happened there.

BERMAN: It's a great point. We need to find out about what was found on the ground, the nature of it. Also what sort of threat exists around that airport? You would assume the Iron Dome system that Israel has. One of the areas they would be keen to protect.

David Soucie, Richard Quest, thank you so much for joining us @thishour to talk us through this breaking development.

PEREIRA: Much more to come. You can count on that. Anderson has more breaking news on this story. It will start right now.