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Shootdown Victims Now Out of Rebel Hands; New Images of Missile Attack on Flight 17; Interview with Rep. Gregory Meeks; Putin to Push Full Investigation; Secretary Kerry Pushing for a Cease-Fire; Russia Ramps Up Flight 17 Propaganda

Aired July 22, 2014 - 09:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: NEWSROOM starts now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, the black boxes finally in the hands of Malaysian authorities this morning. And the surprising glimmer of hope.

PETER VAN VLIET, HEAD OF OSCE DUTCH TEAM: I'm very impressed about the work that they've done over here.

COSTELLO: But not everyone is impressed.

SAMANTHA POWER, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE U.N.: We're not only outraged at the attack itself, we are horrified and enraged by what has happened since.

COSTELLO: Also, stunning new video about how the plane went down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's possible, as the aircraft broke up, if you were still strapped into your seat, you wouldn't realize something terrible was happening.

COSTELLO: Plus, more bloodshed on both sides of the Israeli-Gaza border. New video obtained by CNN shows Israeli forces battling, pummeling Hamas militants inside Israel.

Let's talk, live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COSTELLO: Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin with a stunning new claim in the shoot-down of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. Just a short time ago Ukraine's director of Informational Security made the most blunt accusation yet against Russia. He says he is certain a Russian officer personally pushed the button and fired that missile that brought down the plane.

Minutes ago, Russian President Vladimir Putin vowed that he will use his influence with the rebels to push for a full investigation. Putin was meeting with leaders of his defense and security teams. Also, overnight, some bittersweet news for the grieving families.

They are now one step closer to claiming the remains of their loved ones. Refrigerated train cars carrying the 282 recovered bodies have now left rebel territory and are now in a closed military area in Ukraine.

Also this morning, rebels surrendered the flight recorders known as the block boxes inside the terrifying final moments of flights. Malaysian officials say they'll maintain custody of what may be crucial evidence until an international team of investigators is formed.

We are covering all angles of this developing story and have mobilized correspondents and experts around the globe.

Let's get the latest from CNN's Chris Cuomo. He's at the crash site near Ukraine's southeastern border with Russia.

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR, NEW DAY: Carol, here at the crime scene there's still much work to be done but there is some cause for progress. Finally, the bodies are on their way home. Finally the black boxes are in the hands of investigators.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO (voice-over): Finally headed home. The remains of 282 victims arrived in Ukrainian control Kharkiev overnight by train. While privately disturbed by lack of respect for the dead, Dutch forensics experts expressed a measure of satisfaction.

PETER VAN VLIET, LEAD DUTCH INVESTIGATOR: I'm very impressed about the work that was done over here overseeing the means and the people who did it.

CUOMO: Now away from pro-Russian rebels, the remains can be flown to Amsterdam where they will finally be identified through DNA testing and repatriated.

Most of the passengers were from the Netherlands. Sixteen people remain unaccounted for.

Five days in the combination of open warfare and militant control have blocked any real inspection of the crime scene by international experts.

In the middle of a media frenzy, the self-appointed prime minister signs a pact with Malaysian officials. And later in a second media fest turns over the flight data recorders.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The burden is now on Russia to insist that the separatists stop tampering with the evidence, grant investigators who are already on the ground immediate full and unimpeded access to the crash site. And what exactly are they trying to hide?

CUOMO: Experts say the plane's black boxes may hold information about what brought Malaysia Flight 17 crashing to the ground but warned they may provide very little information about who is responsible and why.

This newfound openness was matched by Russia announcing they have proof a Ukrainian plane may have been flying near Flight 17 when it fell from the sky. In an interview with CNN's Christiane Amanpour the Ukraine president firing back at Russian officials.

PRES. PETRO POROSHENKO, UKRAINE: Instead of doing such irresponsible statement, they have an opportunity to send their representative and present to the commission all the necessary evidence.

CUOMO: And reminding that despite the apparent goodwill of local militia they are not the good guys.

POROSHENKO: Don't name it separatists. There is no separatist there. They are terrorists. They are killing the innocent people.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CUOMO: A very important step upcoming in the journey home for these bodies is when Dutch authorities can put them in coffins. It may seem like a small thing but it will mean so much to the families. And yet there are still so many questions to be answered -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So true.

Chris Cuomo, reporting for us this morning.

Also we have new images to show you that shows the trajectory of the missile that took down Flight 17.

Barbara Starr is following that new development from the Pentagon.

Tell us more, Barbara.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. I want to put that image up right away. CNN obtained it a short time ago from a U.S. government official.

Let's take a look at it. What you are seeing here is the trajectory of both the aircraft and the missile overlaid onto commercial satellite imagery. They are not showing us the classified satellite imagery they have, but this is the depiction the U.S. says of what happened. You see Flight 17, that long yellow line flying into a south easterly direction. You see the launch coming up from the south to the northwest from a town in Ukraine quite close to the Russian border.

And there are two points on that map. There is first where the missile hit the plane and then the plane falling to the ground a bit more to the southeast. This is evidence perhaps of the U.S. continuing and a bit out there of pushing out of the intelligence into the public arena. We don't usually see this kind of detail, but the U.S. is making very clear it wants to tell as much as it can, as much as it feels it has verified. And this is the trajectory they say based on classified satellite and radar analysis. On the question of whether a Russian person pushed that launch button,

that actually may be very difficult to determine, officials tell us, unless they can get on the ground and talk to people in the town directly. And of course, one of the complicating factors is many of the rebels have actually come from across the Russian side of the border or hold Russian citizenship.

So to determine who exactly pushed the button may be a very difficult proposition, but all of this goes to what the U.S. says is the mounting evidence, the Russians supplied the weapons, the Russians supplied the means, and these rebels are the ones that shot it down -- Carol.

COSTELLO: So does that mean they're sure that the missile was fired within Ukrainian territory and not Russian territory?

STARR: Very interesting question, Carol. And quite key. Right now, yes, the analysis which is very technical, very classified by the U.S., officials tell me shows, the trajectory analysis shows, it was fired from near this town. And they do believe they have reports of that missile system having crossed the border from Russia and being in the vicinity of this town inside Ukraine. But it's very close to the border. And, in fact, they are still looking at the proposition, the possibility that other aircraft that were shot down in previous days could have possibly been shot down from locations across the border inside Russia.

One of the things they have also done is they have identified a facility, essentially a training camp, just to cross the border inside Russia again where they say the rebels, the separatists have gone to train on these very kinds of systems -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Interesting.

Barbara Starr reporting live from the Pentagon. Thanks so much.

Joining me now, Democratic Congressman Gregory Meeks of New York.

Good morning, Congressman. Congressman Meeks, can you hear me?

REP. GREGORY MEEKS (D), NEW YORK: I hear you fine. Can you hear me?

COSTELLO: Oh, good. I was just checking. You scared me for a second.

(LAUGHTER)

Congressman, I'd like you to listen to something Russia's ambassador to the United Nations said about those recordings that purportedly show pro-Russian rebels talking about shooting down the plane. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VITALY CHURKIN, RUSSIAN AMBASSADOR TO U.N.: According to them, the people from the east were saying that they shot down a military jet. There was confusion. If there was confusion, it was not an act of terrorism.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: It's a little hard to hear, but, Congressman, what he's basically saying, you know, this was confusion, this was an accident. And if it was an accident, it was not an act of terrorism. How do you characterize it?

MEEKS: Well, look, what is clear is that the separatists, whoever pushed that button, where it's Russian or not is that they're out of control. And that this should never have happened and that it is incumbent upon President Putin to either get the separatists back in control and/or to make sure that we come clean so that all of the evidence is out front and examined by the entire international community.

COSTELLO: Well, in your mind --

MEEKS: This never --

COSTELLO: Is it too early to characterize it as an act of terrorism?

MEEKS: Well, I think that in my mind there's no question that the unstability that is taking place in the area has been created by the separatists. And this would never have occurred, period, had that not been the case. And so that's where the focus has to remain. You know, what you call the act is one thing but the fact that it occurred is another. And what is taking place in the region and the fact that it seems as though that we've got individuals that are out of control and turning a country into a place of turmoil.

COSTELLO: Does that make it terrorism?

MEEKS: Well, any time that you have these kinds of individuals who the individuals that were killed on the plain and their families and they're not in cooperation, they're non-cooperation that has taken place thus far, and I understand today that there's beginning to be some cooperation so that there's some result. But I like to get all of the facts and then we can property classify it.

COSTELLO: Your Republican colleagues, they're slamming President Obama for attending two New York fundraisers in the hours after the crash. Today the president leaves for another set of fundraisers on the West Coast. As a Democrat, what are your thoughts? Do you think the president is striking the wrong tone?

MEEKS: I think the president has been very vocal in talking about what is taking place and what we need to do and holding Mr. Putin accountable for his actions and moving forward. I think the president is very much on the job, he's talking to all of our European allies and trying to get them on board so that -- as to follow our lead, we have already begun sanctions against Russia, to strengthen those sanctions we need (INAUDIBLE) section.

And the president has been doing absolutely the right thing. So he's very focused on this agenda and this issue, and moving in the right direction.

COSTELLO: But --

MEEKS: So I think that the criticism on their part is just -- they're politics as usual.

COSTELLO: Well, some Americans might look at it this way. And look, the president's not running for re-election, not many Democrats want to appear alongside him. Why doesn't he just stay in Washington to show Americans he is truly engaged, because there's not just this crisis going on, right? There's the border crisis as well.

MEEKS: Well, I think that he's shown the Americans that he's really engaged. There's not an issue where there's a question as to whether the president stands or what we are moving or what he is doing to try to address those scenarios. It is clear. When you talk about the border security, you know, it's not for the president, it's not for Congress to act so that we can make sure that we get the dollars that's necessary --

COSTELLO: It's not for Congress to act?

MEEKS: It is time for Congress to act. The president has asked for dollars, the money that we need to secure the borders and to make sure that we stop the crisis on the border. So on that issue it is time for Congress to act so that we can give the dollar that are necessary so the president can continue to move forward his agenda. He said clearly what he needs to be done. With reference to the international crisis that is now taking place.

The president just this morning -- just last night, yesterday evening, has talked about that we've got to hold President Putin accountable. So he's not missing in action. He's very much in action.

COSTELLO: All right. Congressman Greg Meeks, thanks so much for your insight. I appreciate it.

MEEKS: My pleasure.

COSTELLO: Let's bring in CNN's chief international correspondent Christiane Amanpour. She's live in London for us this morning. Thanks for being here, Christiane.

I want to talk about Vladimir Putin because it seem, I don't know. Is he -- OK, well, let me put it this way. The bodies of the Flight 17 victims are finally headed to Amsterdam. Crash investigators now getting more access to the site, and pro-Russian rebel have handed over the black boxes to Malaysian officials. In the meantime, Putin is promising to push the rebels for a full investigation.

So is Putin behind all of these things? Is he getting ready to sort of kind of admit that Russia is sort of responsible?

CHRISTIANE AMANPOUR, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: No. They aren't getting ready to admit that, but they are obviously feeling the weight of international pressure. And by the way, right now as we speak European leaders, foreign ministers are in Brussels and they're talking about another round of sanctions. And whatever the Russians say that does hurt. It simply has hurt their economy over the last several months so they don't want.

And for the first time in a very long time, many European leaders are lining up to say that we may have been ambivalent about certain sanctions in the past but what happened on Thursday has changed fundamentally the equation going forward. Nothing can be the same after the shooting down of that plane. So there does seem to be a much more at least verbally united European and U.S. front over that.

From President Putin himself, there is no doubt that he has fundamental influence over those separatists in Ukraine. And so the point of these sanctions according to European leaders is to make him recognize that that is actually now what he has to do. Get out of Ukraine, stop these rebels, the investigation is kind of sort of underway. But allow it to be much more thorough.

And you just heard from Barbara Starr, investigators need to get on the ground to actually interview people, to see what they can find out about the whys, the wheres and the where fors, whos of who launched that missile on Thursday.

COSTELLO: So, what do you suppose President Putin's next steps, because, you know, he's got tactician, right? He's not a dumb man. So, he must be sitting down to come up with some game plan because there's going to be evidence pointing indirectly to Russia, you know, about this tragedy in eastern Ukraine.

AMANPOUR: Well, the weight of international opinion and forensic evidence and analysis and we have seen now pictures of fuselage which forensic analysts tell us and military analyst, that this has now a gaping hole with shrapnel, very consistent with a missile strike. So, the weight of the evidence is again -- here's the thing about President Putin, according to those who know him best. In fact, he is not a great strategist. He may think he does clever tactics but they believe he's sort of playing each step one foot off to the next, without really knowing what is the end game, at least that is what they believe has been going on from President Putin since the beginning of this crisis, which you remember was all about Ukraine simply wanting to be part of Europe, rather than only part of Russia.

They wanted to have the choice between having a trade agreement with Europe and Russia, Putin said no, and this started the drama of the dominos falling, annexing Crimea, and now, this, which is destabilizing Eastern Ukraine, and has come to this terrible conclusion, all this point now with this downing of the plane.

Many people have said, Putin may now perhaps be looking for way out, but a way that does not require him to say, I lost, I was wrong.

So how they are going to figure this out is anyone's guess.

COSTELLO: Christiane Amanpour, thanks so much. I appreciate it.

AMANPOUR: Thank you, Carol. COSTELLO: Still to come in THE NEWSROOM, more than 600 Palestinians dead in the fighting between Hamas and Israel, and the death toll continues to climb.

Wolf Blitzer live in Jerusalem for us.

Hi, Wolf.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, THE SITUATION ROOM: Hi, Carol. There seems to be no letup right now, even though behind the scenes the Secretary of State John Kerry is in Cairo. He's trying to work with others to get some sort of a cease-fire. It doesn't look likely for today. We'll see what happens.

In the meantime, some very provocative words from a former U.S. secretary of state. We'll share that with you and all of our viewers when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: In Gaza, the bloody battle between Israel and Hamas rages on. Hundreds are dead as world leaders press for a cease-fire.

More than 600 Palestinians have been killed and nearly 4,000 wounded since Israel began Operation Protective Edge two weeks ago. A hospital in Gaza City was hit by Israeli rockets killing five people. Israel claims there were missiles being stored there by Hamas in an area near the hospital, 27 Israeli soldiers and two Israeli civilians have also died in the fighting.

In the meantime, Secretary of State John Kerry is in Cairo, Egypt, urging Hamas to accept the Egyptian cease-fire proposal.

Wolf Blitzer is covering it all from Jerusalem.

Hi, Wolf.

BLITZER: Hi, Carol.

There's an intense underway, a diplomatic effort to get the cease-fire started with a humanitarian pause and temporary cease-fire, then building to a more general cease-fire and dealing with some of these long-term issues down the road. That's the wish, that's the goal, that's what Secretary of State John Kerry is trying to do in Cairo right now working with the Egyptians. He met with Ban Ki-moon, the U.N. secretary general. Both Kerry and Ban Ki-moon will be here in Israel meeting with Prime Minister Netanyahu and other top officials.

At the same time, the fighting, as you point out, continues. No let up at all of the Israeli part or the Hamas rockets and missiles still coming in to Israel, Israel continuing its air, sea and ground assault against various targets inside Gaza.

Same time, the Israelis are fully aware that they are being criticized, and today, a little while ago, Carol, I had a chance to speak to the former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright. And she raised questions about the proportionality of Israel's response.

Listen to a little bit of what she told me.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLP)

MADELEINE ALBRIGHT, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I do think that the point has to be made if rockets are being shot at Israel, then Israel does have a right to defend itself. I do think it is very hard to watch the number of Palestinians that are being killed innocent. It is hard to dispute the fact that as Prime Minister Netanyahu has said that in fact there are innocents being put in the way in order to act as shields.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLITZER: And she used that word proportionality, suggesting that the Israelis are overreacting right now and she clearly wants a cease cease-fire. But beyond that, she'd like to see some effort to revive the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, Carol. At least for now, that seems pretty elusive.

COSTELLO: Yes, it's a tall order. Wolf Blitzer, reporting live for us this morning, thank you.

Still to come in THE NEWSROOM, a failed assassination attempt against President Putin, a U.S.-backed conspiracy to start a war with Russia. It all may sound ridiculous but these are the reports coming out of the Russian media about Flight 17.

Up next, we'll hear from a former Russian anchor who says this sort of propaganda is actually working for President Putin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COSTELLO: As global anger intensifies toward Russian President Vladimir Putin over the downing of Flight 17, Russia is ramping up its propaganda machine. I mean, ramping up. The country's latest theory points a finger at Kiev and alleges it wasn't a surface to air missile but a Ukrainian fighter jet that shot down the Boeing 777.

Let's bring CNN's Diana Magnay. She's in Moscow with the latest theory.

Tell us more.

DIANA MAGNAY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Carol.

Well, the Russian defense ministry presented two theories actually. One of them was that there was a Ukrainian SU-25 war plane flying close to the Malaysian airliner at the time of the incident. They said those kind of fighter jets are armed with missiles. They didn't go as far to say it was that missile which brought the plane down.

They also said that they had satellite images showing Ukrainian BUK missile launches moving around the conflict area at the time of the incident and in the days before. So, presenting two different possible scenarios, which would point the finger at Kiev's involvement.

So, Russia really saying, look, your evidence, U.S. and Kiev, is not definitive. They say that there's audio intercepts that the U.S. has been pointing to were doctored and could have been put together very easily, and saying this is our version of events. So, really it's the propaganda machine spinning on both sides in what is an information war, certainly as it seemed from the Russian angle -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Is Russia's evidence credible?

MAGNAY: Well, how credible is the U.S. evidence?

They have shown satellite imagery. It's difficult to pin-point exactly what it does show. It's difficult to tell whether those are Ukrainian BUK missile launches or if they are actually the BUK system which the rebels said they captured from a Ukrainian military base on June 29 and have moved into their own positions. That's impossible to tell.

But also, the evidence that the U.S. has put out there -- these tapings where we hear the pro-Russian separatists having a conversation with someone who is supposedly a Russian military official of some sort. It's difficult to prove that that is real or that video showing a missile launcher towards Russia the day after the incident.