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Dr. Drew
Craigslist Murder, Beheading & Suicide; Autistic Twins Locked in Basement; Debating Testimony Around Hot Car Dad
Aired July 22, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, did this man murder pregnant woman, behead her boyfriend and then kill himself? Police say
they met on Craigslist for sex.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought it was only something you watched on the news. It`s just completely horrifying.
PINSKY: The behavior bureau sounds off.
Plus, our most tweeted story of the day. These people are accused of locking their autistic twins away in the basement.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Sam Schacher.
And coming up, the father of the pregnant woman who was strangled and dumped in the trunk of a car is here.
SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes, Dr. Drew, this is an HLN exclusive. And what he has to say is powerful.
PINSKY: All right.
First off, authorities find the decapitated corpse of a young man who is her boyfriend, a day later her body is discovered. Police say she put an
ad on Craigslist for three way sex hookup that obviously went terribly, terribly wrong.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We don`t know what trauma was caused, because after he was murdered, his head was removed by the suspect.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty-five-year-old Charles Oppenneer was the first to be found. Police discovered his body in a wooded area near Gezon Park.
His cause of death is still unknown.
Police began a search for Oppenneer`s pregnant girlfriend, 18-year-old Brooke Slocum. When investigators searched her computer, they found out
she had been communicating with 31-year-old Brady Oestrike on Craigslist.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We`ve also recovered email communication between Oestrike and Slocum in which a meeting for sex was arranged at Gezon Park.
The conversation also confirms that Oppenneer was to be present at the meeting.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On July 17th, Wyoming police tried to pull Oestrike over, but he crashed his car and took his own life. Police discovered
Slocum`s body in the trunk.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney, Adrianna Costa, entertainment journalist, Segun Oduolowu, host of "Wired in with Segun"
podcast.
Police say Brooke Slocum was strangled, her unborn child obviously dead. Police investigators believe -- they believe the boyfriend probably had
head trauma but obviously they can`t tell for sure until they find his head. They need pathologist apparently to determine the cause of that had
to have been head trauma because the rest of the body -- I wish I had Bill Lloyd here. But there`s no evidence of any trouble -- but we`re going to
get them in here tomorrow.
SEGUN ODUOLOWU, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Dr. Drew, it`s a horrific story and it kind of goes, when you dance with the devil, the devil doesn`t
change, it changes you. And these people went looking for trouble.
And that`s what bothers me. And I want to grief and I really do grieve for the father of this girl and the family that have lost a child and lost the
possibility of a grandchild to love. But these two individuals went seeking on Craigslist danger and something strange and they found danger.
That`s something really strange.
PINSKY: They found it.
Segun, let me show you the reported Craigslist ad. It reads in part, I am 18, 5`3", about 120 pounds, still growing. Happening to eight months
pregnant with a white Korean baby girl. I am white, petite, short, brown hair, green eyes, father of my child and I are sort of involved in this
weird open relationship.
ODUOLOWU: What is that, Dr. Drew? What is that? Like how is that possible? I mean, first of all, you`re eight months pregnant soliciting
sex and your boyfriend is on board with this? I mean, look, I`m not a medical doctor, but oh, my gosh, the mental aspect of this is
flabbergasting.
ADRIANNA COSTA, ENTERTAINMENT REPORTER: Dr. Drew, I won`t even sell furniture on Craigslist with the fear of who might show up on my front
door. No joke. So, the fact that she`s on there soliciting sex, playing with fire, it was a matter of time before something horrific happened. And
then, of course, it did.
SCHACHER: But she is also 18 years old. I mean, listen, at this point, I`m assuming that everybody on Craigslist is a murderer.
But, Dr. Drew, when ways 18, I drove -- I drove, I road a bus to a place around 20 minutes away from where I was in college. And my broke ass met
someone off of Craigslist to buy a toaster. And now, I cringe at it. Yes, I wasn`t looking for sex. But still I went to a random person`s house to
purchase a $4 toaster I did this off of Craigslist. And I think at 18 years old, sometimes you`re just a little too naive.
PINSKY: And the point is not that Craigslist is to blame. It said, those of us that are parents have to really get on young people. I`m anxious to
talk to this woman`s dad to hear the message he has for other parents.
Now, Sam, you`ve got more on the suspected killer, including his social profile, right?
SCHACHER: Yes. Well, he was 32 years old, that`s Brady Oestrike. And he was employed sporadically as a utility linesman.
Now, a former girl friend once filed domestic charges against him, and according to a social profile which you just mentioned, he was a member of
Dungeon`s and Dragons Adventurers of Grand Rapids, Michigan, and he did enjoy dressing in medieval clothing.
PINSKY: So, Anahita -- I mean, Segun`s passing judgment on people with Dungeons and Dragons.
SCHACHER: I liked Dungeons and Dragons.
ODUOLOWU: Whatever.
PINSKY: This is not really about that. This is a guy that`s a murderer that exploited people who -- you know --
ODUOLOWU: He looked pretty wacked out in that picture.
PINSKY: Anahita?
ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, Dr. Drew, let me just say one thing. Yes, he is wacked out. I don`t think we should be blaming anybody else
except this killer.
PINSKY: Right.
SEDAGHATFAR: But Segun is learning a thing for two from me, because we actually agree on this point. I mean, why is a girl who is eight months
pregnant looking for a threesome on Craigslist or some sexcapade and why is her boyfriend on board with this? That is so reckless.
I mean, how many stories do we have to hear about people getting killed off of Craigslist, getting raped, getting hurt? I think these two adults knew
what they were getting into. It`s not to blame them but they should have known better.
ODUOLOWU: Anahita, I do think you have to blame a little bit because this is not the first time she`s been soliciting sex online.
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s her thing, right. So you are looking for danger, you are going to find danger, but ultimately, she didn`t take a knife and chop
off her boyfriend`s head. Who did that? Allegedly the killer.
So, I`m saying we shouldn`t blame them, but we should put some responsibility on them. You don`t go looking for a threesome on
Craigslist. That is the lesson to be learned, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: Adrianna?
COSTA: Guys, her father also came out and said that she was seeking love, looking for love. That she didn`t have good relationships in her life.
So, that is so sad. There was obviously something really traumatic in her own life that you should, hopefully, Dr. Drew, get to the bottom of with
her father.
PINSKY: That and I`ll tell you what? I am always amazed at women put up with, that men, in order to be under a relationship with a guy, they would
up with some things that they shouldn`t be putting up, I smell that kind of a relationship. She said, it`s a weird, open relationship, not something
that she necessarily was excited about.
SEDAGHATFAR: I think she was, I think she was. The police went through e- mails. She was communicating with this guy online. She was communicating with other guys. I think she liked it.
PINSKY: Turns out she add chronic illness she thought would cut her life short. Her father is going to tell me about that. Brooke`s father is
here. He said she deserved better. We all agree with that, for sure.
And later, a mom said she had no idea her autistic twins were locked away in the basement. Hear what police are saying and finding, after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Greg Slocum found this letter among many others as he was picking out a dress for his daughter`s funeral. He said it best
explains Brooke.
GREG SLOCUM: I can do anything if people just let me be who I truly am. She has done so many wonderful things for other people, so selflessly.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Slocum and his family continue to come to terms with the loss, he says it would mean everything to them if others decided to pay
it forward.
SLOCUM: What is the meaning (ph) to this. It`s just completely horrifying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam at the behavior bureau.
Kirsten Haglund, former Miss America, founder of the Kirsten Haglund Foundation. Emily Roberts, psychotherapist. And Wendy Walsh,
psychologist, author of "The 30-Day Love Detox."
Brooke Slocum, eight months pregnant when police discovered her in the trunk after car. The vehicle belonged to a monster who is suspected of
murdering Brooke, and her unborn child and her boyfriend who he decapitated. Police say they met on Craigslist.
Brooke Slocum`s father will be with me in just a minute.
I want to get reaction from some of the behavior bureau.
Emily, what do you say here?
EMILY ROBERTS, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: It`s tragic. It`s so upsetting to think that this poor baby even, this 8-month-old baby. We`re not talking about
this.
And it`s also another example of stranger danger for the 21st century. You know, we`re not teaching kids about this at an earlier age. I think it is
so necessary that we do.
We used to teach kids about taking candy from a stranger. This is like taking candy from a stranger in a very sick and different way.
PINSKY: Yes, Kirsten, I agree, that this is the sort of the park where people might be trolling for young people is now the Internet.
KIRSTEN HAGLUND, FORMER MISS AMERICA: Right. Absolutely.
And you know what I found really interesting, is that her father mentioned she wouldn`t tell him about these things. She was doing these encounters,
that he was soliciting. Because he loved her and lectured her and tried to help her but online she was a different person, you know? Face-to-face she
was one way. And online, a different person, same with probably the suspect.
So, it just shows that this anonymity that the Internet creates can be extremely dangerous and that`s why parents, you`re totally right, you need
to be onboard with this.
PINSKY: Yes, the Internet is not real relationships. It is pseudo- relationships. I have dad on the phone, Greg Slocum is here. His 18-year- old daughter Brooke and her unborn child were murdered by this man. They reportedly met on Craigslist.
Craig, first of all, thank you for joining us. Please accept our deepest thoughts and sorrow for your family.
This is -- as you said, your daughter did not deserve this. I don`t care what else, what she was up to or -- you know what I mean, this is about a
killer.
We are trying to understand and learn about the story. Is it true your daughter did have a history of meeting people online?
SLOCUM (via telephone): Yes, she did. She has got numerous letters to her unborn children that state that she has met men online looking for love.
All she really found was it made her feel cheap, dirty and used.
And love is not manipulation. Love is unconditional. And she realized that. And she didn`t want to do it any more. But she also wants to stay
with the man that is the father of her child. And she would do whatever it took to do that, even if it meant sacrificing herself in this sort of
manner and ultimately paying the price.
PINSKY: So, Wendy, that kind of confirms what I was thinking. A lot of women do stuff to say -- do things they`re not excited about, to stay with
a guy.
WENDY WALSH, PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, there are a couple of pieces ho here. I would like it ask this father, do you really think that she was manipulated
by this boyfriend and was even more vulnerable because she was pregnant with, I assumed his child. And did she suffer any symptoms of pregnancy
depression?
SLOCUM: First question, yes, she was manipulated in this. She was a very sweet, honest, naive and trusting girl. She come from small town and going
into the big city of Grand Rapids was a whole new world for her. I tried to explain the dangers of it, and she`s like, dad, I`ve got it. I`m OK.
People aren`t like that.
I`m like, honey, they are, and you just need to be careful. But the more I lectured her, the more she seemed to pull away.
PINSKY: Yes. She`s an adult. Greg, I understand your daughter had which is Ehlers-Danlos syndrome of basically collagen and connected tissue where
your skin can get very elastic, your joints can be hyper mobile, and there could even be a syndrome, one of Ehlers-Danlos syndromes, can be associated
with the fragility of vessels and early death.
Is that why she believes her life was going to be cut short?
SLOCUM: Yes, she did. She was thinking she would never have a child and she wanted nothing more --
PINSKY: Because of the --
(CROSSTALK)
SLOCUM: Yes.
PINSKY: Hang on, but Ehlers-Danlos is mostly benign. Couldn`t anybody sort of educated her about that?
SLOCUM: Yes, we did. But she was just over-worried about the situation. She had a feeling that something was going to happen. She talked a lot
about death to different people.
PINSKY: Oh my --
SLOCUM: She wrote a lot about it.
PINSKY: Greg, you were involved in the search, is that right?
SLOCUM: That`s correct. I would do anything possible to bring my baby home safe. And as a father, I did everything I could raising her,
educating her, and all the way to the end, looking for her. I never gave up, until the police came to my door and told me the bad news.
PINSKY: Sam, you got a question?
SCHACHER: Yes, Greg, in your opinion, why do you think that Brooke was attracted to these bad relationships or the deviant sex?
SLOCUM: It all started with, like I said going back to her letters. It starts with bullying in school and being judged, being picked on. And, you
know, it causes such self esteem problems, especially in young girls, when they don`t feel pretty or loved. And they want the love that a father
can`t give them.
And they look elsewhere for it when they are neglected and picked on. And right there is the ultimate start of why these girls get on the Internet
searching for other things.
PINSKY: Is her mom in the picture? Is she OK?
SLOCUM: Yes, her mom is absolutely devastated. My heart still goes out to her.
PINSKY: Greg, I`m so sorry. I have to wrap this up but do you have any thoughts that you could share with other parents or young people about the
Internet.
SLOCUM: The Internet is a good thing. It just needs to be used responsibly and with severe caution and we need to educate our children on
how to do this.
PINSKY: All right, Greg, thank you for joining us. Please send our sincerest thoughts --
SCHACHER: Condolences.
PINSKY: Yes. Condolences to the mom. I guess, she`s not your wife any longer, is that right?
SLOCUM: That is correct.
PINSKY: Right, to the mom and to you as well. And to the rest of your family, I`m sure she had siblings. And this just -- she did not deserve
this.
SLOCUM: No, she did not. The whole world will be affected by her loss. She would have made a difference.
PINSKY: So sorry.
OK, we are switching gears. A couple accused of locking their autistic twins in the basement.
And later, you`re going to hear from a friend of the hot car dad who calls him a monster.
We`ll be back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they found 22-year-old twin brothers with autism locked in a room in the basement and the people responsible, their
own parents, John and Janice Land (ph). Detectives said the room had an overwhelming smell of urine. No furniture or light, just a bed comfortable
covering the hard tile floor. The boys reportedly held hostage by an external dead bolt. These sons were totally nonverbal and had a history of
running from the house, so he had locked the 22-year-olds in the basement every night for the past six years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Adrianna and Segun.
It is the story you were tweeting most. Tonight, parents accused of keeping their 22-year-old autistic twin sons locked in a basement, a stinky
basement. Police stumbled on to the twins while serving a search warrant for an unrelated issue. They described the basement as dungeon-like, no
bathroom, no furniture, no lights, a blanket in the floor and window too small to crawl through.
Now, Segun, were these parents malicious? Were they sort of just shirking responsibility? Or ill-equipped to care for autistic adults?
ODUOLOWU: I think their neighbor Sam French said it best in the report, Dr. Drew, that this is not parenting, this is shameful. This is shameful.
We don`t treat animals like this.
And I get a chance to appear with Holly Robinson Peete on "Access Hollywood Live" sometimes, who herself is a mother of an autistic son. She is an
advocate for education around autism.
To lock a 22-year-old in a basement and been doing this for the past six years shows careless and complete disregard to not only human kindness but
human decency.
PINSKY: And, Sam, you say the same thing, huh?
SCHACHER: Yes. Dr. Drew, I mean, you keep your dusty old belongs in a basement. Not your two autistic children. And this mother sorry ass
excuse she was saving for furniture, really? You couldn`t spare a chair from the kitchen or a light from the living room? Or how about your bed
because I`m sure you slept comfortably in a bed every night. I`m with you, Segun, 100 percent.
PINSKY: All right. The father defended what he did to police, saying he installed dead bolt locks because the twins are mischievous and want away
from home. They have no bathroom access because they had caused water damage in other parts of the house and the bathroom. They had no
furniture, Sam said, because it had become (INAUDIBLE) or moved it last week saying she was saving to have it replaced.
Anahita, does this make sense to you as a defense lawyer? Is this a defense?
SEDAGHATFAR: That`s not a defense, Dr. Drew. Once again, I think Segun is learning a lot from me.
PINSKY: Be careful, be careful, Anahita. You never know what he`s going to do --
ODUOLOWU: Teach me.
SEDAGHATFAR: It might have broken too soon, but really, I don`t care what the reasoning is here. If they put these kids in the basement because they
didn`t know how to cope with autistic kids, they didn`t have the resources or money, or if this is pure evil -- this is abuse. You don`t lock people
in a basement, Dr. Drew, with no furniture.
PINSKY: And she said she didn`t know the twins were there. She said, I didn`t know they were locked in there.
What does she mean by that?
SEDAGHATFAR: That will work against her, because initially, when shot police asked her that question, she tried to deny it. It wasn`t until
later that she finally admitted and she said, oh, we didn`t have the money. They damaged furniture. We don`t know how to control them.
That`s going to definitely work against them. This is abuse.
(CROSSTALK)
SCHACHER: So, she has selective amnesia too.
PINSKY: Adrianna?
COSTA: And they were trying to run away because they were being tortured there.
PINSKY: Oh, man.
Autistic adults, they`re challenging, guys. They are. I think these parents were way over their head. At least one neighbor said the police
have been there several times. The twins were locked up between 10:00 p.m. and 5:00 a.m. only.
The grandfather, let me talk about the grandfather, said, if you guys could please show me that.
Yes, the twins, the grandfather says the family is targeted because some of the other children have been in trouble with the law. The police showed up
to serve their search warrant at 5:00 a.m. warrant as we said is not about the twins. They were looking for something unrelated. But they came upon
the twins because that`s when they were locked up.
Segun, what do you have to say? This whole household sounds like it`s a kind of a mess right now.
ODUOLOWU: Yes, I mean, it seems like the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. I mean, if the other kids were getting in trouble with the law, you
only is to look at their parents as an example of what not to do. They were locking their brothers in the basement.
Like I can`t fathom how anyone can see this as remotely acceptable thing to do it human beings.
PINSKY: Hold on, Adrianna?
COSTA: Dr. Drew, also I blame -- I said this before about another case. I blame family members, the community -- how do you see something like this
going on and not say anything to the authorities?
SCHACHER: One neighbor did. One neighbor did report it three years ago.
(CROSSTALK)
COSTA: Shame on law enforcement for not picking up on it.
PINSKY: All right. Let`s talk about what the parents were dealing with. These children perhaps should have been institutionalized. Does anyone
feel that`s a possibility here?
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: Yes, they didn`t know what to do with their kids. Absolutely, they need --
PINSKY: No, wait a minute, that may have been the option, though. That may have been what they`re the institutional -- some people are not
manageable.
SCHACHER: They were 22.
SEDAGHATFAR: These are adults.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That could have been dangerous. We don`t know how severe the autism is here. So --
ODUOLOWU: But they were smarted enough and gifted enough to escape from their jailers.
PINSKY: And go where? They couldn`t take care of themselves.
(CROSSTALK)
ODUOLOWU: How did they run away and get brought back to the house if they are nonverbal. There are too many gaps in the story to believe the words
of the jailers.
SCHACHER: I agree.
ODUOLOWU: So, they could have been integrated and they could have been educated.
(CROSSTALK)
SEDAGHATFAR: Dr. Drew, educate us about autism in adults.
PINSKY: Sometimes, it`s not possible. They really cannot, they`re not communicative and you have to use other kinds of techniques that require
institutional support. I`m fearful the parents were sort of in denial about that something --
ODUOLOWU: A dungeon can be the answer, Dr. Drew.
PINSKY: No, it`s not the answer. That`s very much a point is --
COSTA: That is become a trend, it seems like --
PINSKY: A trend?
COSTA: It seems like people are locking away their kids in the basement.
SCHACHER: What trend? There`s a trend of this?
COSTA: It happened with basement boy as well.
SCHACHER: Under the stairs.
COSTA: It happened with basement boy, people --
PINSKY: Basement boy --
SCHACHER: That`s true.
PINSKY: That one, we still haven`t figured out what happened.
COSTA: The fact is they want to live this child-free lives, get rid of their responsibilities, so they are actually hiding their problems away.
It is despicable.
PINSKY: Listen, to me in working with parents, the biggest problem is denial. They don`t want it believe when they can`t handle situations, and
when their kids have gotten in the situation where they need to help. And particular as something as drastic as institutional support.
And by the way, during the next segment, I`m going to tell what you it cost to do that. Sometimes, it`s prohibited, sometimes, it is not possible.
What do we do as a community? When you guys said the community failed him -- these kids, I think that`s really what happened here. These parents may
have gotten gradually in over their head. What they did, despicable, and we all agree with. But how did they get their and why didn`t somebody else
helped them or why couldn`t something else have been done?
Behavior bureau is in here, they`re taking sides right now.
And later, an update on hot car dad. Hear from a friend who says he may not have known the real Ross Harris.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Police say they found 22-year-old twin brothers with autism locked in a room in the basement. And the people responsible --
their own parents, John and Janice Land. Detectives said the room had an overwhelming smell of urine, no furniture or light, just a bed comforter
covering the hard tile floor. The boys reportedly held shot hostage by an external dead bolt. His sons were totally nonverbal and had history of
running from the house, so he had locked the 22-year-olds in the basement every night for the past six years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: I`m back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Kirsten, Emily and Wendy. It is the story you cannot seem to stop tweeting about. Parents
accused of locking up their 22-year-old autistic sons in the basement. Police described that environment as urine soaked dungeon with no light, no
furniture, only a comforter on the floor.
Viewers on our Facebook page want to know -- they`re actually asking the question I was asking, Kirsten, before the break -- was why didn`t these
parents capitulate and get help for these kids even if it meant them being institutionalized if they needed that kind of containment?
HAGLUND: Right, well, I think that it is a great question, and it`s one that we all need to be aware of. The community is so essential in helping
bring together people that are struggling with things so they don`t feel alone, so they have other parents to ask questions to. And so the
hospital, the local pediatricians office, the local mental health outreach, social workers all need to be involved in bringing people who might have
children that are struggling with autism together. So that they`re not alone.
PINSKY: You know what, Kirsten?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Wendy -- I`ll let you two ring here, but it`s bringing me to tears when I think about the fact that people don`t trust the mental health --
particularly the mental system, and then they end up -- people end up hurt because of that. But what did you want to say, Wendy?
WALSH: It`s not just that they don`t trust it, Dr. Drew; they can`t get services. I would love to --
PINSKY: Well, that`s the horrible thing.
WALSH: -- in this dream world you`re talking about where you can call in pediatricians and hospitals and behaviorialists. It doesn`t exist.
PINSKY: Oh you guys are killing me, you`re killing me.
WALSH: If there are financial issues with the family, these parents may think they are saving their sons` lives by locking them up.
PINSKY: I think you`re probably -- no, Sam, I think she is right. I think that maybe -- it is misplaced. We understand. But they may be --
SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, I would agree with you somewhat if there was some furniture down there, some light. And their other two children are in and
out of trouble too, Dr. Drew.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: But, Sam, they may -- well, the other kids, I don`t know what the trouble was yet.
SCHACHER: I know what trouble was. One of the sons arrested the very same day for a separate incident, oh, for assaulting and robbing a disabled
child, Dr. Drew. Yes. Ew is right.
PINSKY: Kirsten, you want to follow up? Kirsten, go ahead.
HAGLUND: Well, I just wanted to say is that, yes, of course, we would all love to have more support and more resources, but there are more available
than people think. It`s a common misconception that, oh, no one is out there to help me, no one understands what I`m going through. And so I
think it`s one thing to say, you know, no, we don`t live in a perfect world but there are some resources available. People need to know that.
PINSKY: Well, you`ve got to fight to find them. And if you don`t trust the system you`re applying to, it is hard to do that.
Emily, it cost about $3 million to care for a person with autism over the course of a lifetime. And most of that expense comes in under adult life.
About $3.2 million I have up on the board there. That`s -- you know, forget, most people hear what the expense is and just go forget it, and
they don`t look or apply for some of the resources that are out there.
SCHACHER: Well, there are also other barriers, Dr. Drew.
ROBERTS: It can be so difficult.
WALSH: You need internet access, you need to be educated, you need to know key words, you need to look. I mean, it is very hard.
PINSKY: Wendy, listen, I feel it. I get what you`re saying. Emily, what do you think?
ROBERTS: I think it can be really difficult. I agree with you both of you. And, Wendy, I think a lot of people don`t have resources to do this.
So what winds up happening is that we have these kids in these situations where parents maybe feel like they`re protecting them or protecting the
public. And at the end of the day, what these people did was tragic, do not get me wrong, but I don`t think they had the education.
PINSKY: But Emily, Emily, is the answer then, the best outcome for these twins, removing them from the parents who want it keep them close and are
trying to care but aren`t succeeding? That might be the best thing. OK. Well, we all agree with that? That taking them away from these parents
probably the best outcome?
(CROSSTALK)
WALSH: Clearly the parents are overwhelmed.
PINSKY: Sam, you say yes.
SCHACHER: The parents are not only overwhelmed; they have no compassion. Are you kidding me?
WALSH: No, you have to understand, Sam, their version of compassion is I have to keep my sons alive and I have to protect the community from my
sons.
SCHACHER: Oh please.
WALSH: We don`t know if they have violent tendencies. These parents were trying to do what they thought was right.
SCHACHER: How do you know what they were trying to do?
PINSKY: We don`t.
SCHACHER: This father has 32 years` experience working for the school system. He had resources at his fingertips. You guys are giving these
parents way too much of the benefit of the doubt.
PINSKY: Maybe we are. It`s really -- I find this terribly upsetting, you guys. Sam, I agree, we might be. When you talk about the furniture, for
instance, the kids may have been using the furniture as a weapon against each other. I mean, who knows what was going on here.
But you`re right, Sam, there is -- we can hold out possibility that these parents are ill-guided. They`re a little bit -- maybe some sinister intent
here. I hope not. Because, Wendy, I`m on with you. You and I have dealt with so many people that struggle with the system. And, yes, there are
resources there but learning (ph) to get them and to get them to work on your behalf is so impossible. It`s why people end up in the prisons today.
WALSH: Dr. Drew, I spent three years fighting the system just trying to get services for my daughter, and I have a Ph.D. and it was so hard to
figure out. So somebody who may have less education, may have not access to computers, may not know how to get legal services for free or fight for
state-run services, it`s so difficult and complicated. Trust me.
PINSKY: Am I the only one who`s upset by this story? I know Sam really is.
SCHACHER: Oh, I`m upset.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: Yeah, I mean, I really don`t like it when the system fails people. It makes me deeply, deeply upset. That`s the best way I can describe it.
We -- it`s -- there are professionals out there who aim to serve and people like this can`t get to hem and it`s just the saddest of stories, in my
opinion.
OK. We`re going to go on to another sad story. It`s the hot car dad story that we`ve been following for a while. Is this dad a monster? A member of
his wedding says, yes, he thinks he might be. After this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
VANESSA BARTON: All these theories coming out in support almost now when everyone was so enraged and --
SCHACHER: I`m still enraged.
PINSKY: OK, a little round of applause for Vanessa.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: An old friend of Justin Ross Harris recently came forward and called Harris a monster?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a big crime that went on here in that this guy was a very awful parent. And he left his son in the car to die for
nine hours. Either way, this is going to be involuntary manslaughter to some extent.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If he was truly able to forget he add child in two minutes of driving, that gross negligence leads one to -- that he should
be guilty of second degree murder for child cruelty.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Kirsten, Anahita. Joining us, Jason Ellis, SiriusXM radio host, author of "The Awesome Guide To Life." We are talking
about hot car dad again. We`ve gotten overwhelming response to this story on Twitter and we are continuing to read your questions and trying to give
you answers as we get them.
It`s a confusing story. Now, tonight, we`ve got one of hot car dad`s groomsmen. He comes forward. Ben McRae tells HLN affiliate, WBRC, that he
is disgusted by his friend. Have a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BEN MCRAE, FRIEND OF JUSTIN ROSS HARRIS: I`m like, when did you -- what happened? When did you become this person that we see on TV now? Or were
you always like this and just hid it that well? I just don`t want Baby Cooper to be forgotten. I want there to be justice for the suffering he
had to go through.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Now this is a guy I would love to speak to on this program. Ben, please come on this show and help us figure this case out. I think have
you some insights. The story is still -- the cards are in the air as far as I can tell. I don`t know who to believe, what to understand, as the
facts in this case.
Let`s look at what we do know about Justin Harris. He`s 38 years old, married. We know he`s from Alabama, living in Georgia. The question is he
happily married? Is he looking to cheat? Is he a loving father who made a mistake or a calculated killer?
The groomsman says, the man we see on TV is not his friend. Jason, I haven`t heard your thoughts on this case yet. Please have at it.
JASON ELLIS, SIRIUSXM RADIO HOST: Look, as a father, I would say that I`m not the most responsible father that has ever existed. But on my worst
day, even before I was a parent, on my worst day when I was a drug addict, I don`t leave babies in a car and I don`t really care about the rest of it.
As far as I`m concerned, he`s done. This guy is done and whether he did it on purpose or didn`t do it -- does it make it worse? Yes, it does. But
even if you accidentally did it, you should be gone. I don`t know why you are hear any more. Get off the plan pet.
PINSKY: Sam?
SCHACHER: And, Dr. Drew, I love the fact that you asked the question, is he happily married? If you`re happily married, you`re not sexting pictures
of your erect penis to six different women. Really?
PINSKY: Listen, she may not be happily but these guys that are sex addicts can genuinely love their spouses or their partners. That does happen.
Jason.
ELLIS: I`m allowed to do that.
SCHACHER: Really?
ELLIS: Why can`t I just shut up, Drew? What`s wrong with me?
(LAUGHTER)
PINSKY: Jason, but let me ask something. I`m going to hearken back to the first story. Even though you guys have an interesting relationship, you
would never go on Craigslist and solicit stuff, would you guys?
ELLIS: No, no. There`s --
PINSKY: And --
ELLIS: Even the first time around, I would haven`t used that. That`s psychotic.
PINSKY: And you`re not preoccupied with this. In other words, you`re not sexting and doing so much that when you`re driving your damn kid somewhere,
you can`t get your mind off that nonsense. Is that --
ELLIS: Oh, yes, I don`t sext with children. I mean, I don`t sext with them in the vicinity. I don`t have a conversation with my child and then
go, here is my penis.
PINSKY: All right. Now "The Atlanta Journal Constitution" made a case against the police`s testimony. They question it. Are the police lying,
Anahita, or are they maybe -- this is the gentleman on the stand, who -- there was a big discrepancy between what he was reporting and what "The
Atlanta Journal Constitution" said they saw in the videotape.
So the question is was he just exaggerating a little bit, a few seconds here or there about what he was looking out, to -- in order to bring this
to a jury. Is that what an investigator`s supposed to do?
SEDAGHATFAR: No. No, Dr. Drew, he is testifying under oath, OK? And at the risk of sounding arrogant or like a Miss Know-It-All, like a lot of the
viewers think I am, I told you so, OK? I told you so. You cannot rush to judgment. Because now what we have is the lead investigator apparently
testifying under oath, which is under penalty of perjury, Dr. Drew, about what he says he saw on that surveillance tape.
PINSKY: But it was wrong.
SEDAGHATFAR: And guess what? It was wrong. Exactly, that`s the point.
PINSKY: What`s he doing, then?
SEDAGHATFAR: What`s he doing?
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: He`s just giving the worst case scenario to get this thing to trial.
SEDAGHATFAR: No. That`s not how -- no, he is testifying under oath in a court of law to the judge about what he saw on that surveillance tape. And
guess what? Those jurors are going to see that surveillance tape. They`re going to see that that -- what they see doesn`t match up with this man`s
testimony. How are they going to believe anything else those prosecutors are saying in this case? This is terrible for the prosecution.
PINSKY: All right. Kirsten, I want you to be a juror here. The AJC says Justin Harris did not look into the car when he reopened -- let`s look at
video here. Is it possible -- we have a recreation of Harris`s car here. Is it possible to open the door and look over the SUV, even if you didn`t
look directly in when you throw -- he threw light bulbs in or something during lunch. You still notice the carseat with a 22-month-old in the
back, would you not?
ELLIS: Of course.
PINSKY: Whoa, let me ask the juror. Kirsten?
HAGLUND: No, I definitely -- I mean, just, if I was a juror in this case, I definitely think that you would. Additionally, some people have brought
up in reports that the smell from the car would have been an indicator as well as what`s going on in the car.
But people can be distracted. But, you know, what I think what is confusing everyone right now is he`s being tried in the court of public
opinion right now. And so you`ve got some people coming out really strongly in favor of him. Others going, oh my goodness, this could never
have happened. He is a horrible dad, all this stuff. And that`s confusing everyone. It`s going to confuse potential jurors too that have been just
like -- there`s been so much information thrown out there about this case.
(CROSSTALK)
HAGLUND: We need to focus on the facts.
SEDAGHATFAR: Exactly, and that`s why, Dr. Drew, this is a perfect illustration of why we need defense attorneys. Because, thankfully -- it`s
true. Everyone on this panel, Dr. Drew, including you to a certain extent, a lot of your viewers, were rushing to convict this guy. I asked, even on
your show, hey guys, have you seen the surveillance video? For good reason.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: We should have defense attorneys, but only if they look like you. We don`t need that many.
SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you, Jason. I will be the only defense attorney in the world.
PINSKY: Make your point again that it doesn`t matter whether it was premeditated or not. This is so egregious that it is at least -- what do
you call it, Anahita?
SEDAGHATFAR: Gross negligence, criminal negligence.
PINSKY: Jason? Last words.
ELLIS: There`s too many people on the planet. Kill him. Thank you.
PINSKY: All right, we`re going to hear from hot car dad`s brother, next. Be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Guilt, guilt, guilt. Put him away in a cage. He should never have the right to have children ever again.
MCRAE: It was really totally against any type of moral character I thought he had.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wanted to hook up with her. She said something to the effect of, do you have a conscience?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What was his response some?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nope.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A mile and half later he went to work and he forgot about the child? He checked on the child at lunch, too. That`s three
different times he was around that car. How do you forget your child?
MCRAE: It`s almost like he`s a monster.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Kirsten, Anahita, and Jason. We`re talking about hot car dad. His brother also giving interviews but the brother`s
defending him. He`s telling AJC, this is "The Atlanta Journal Constitution", quote, "I know Ross. Cooper was his buddy. To see him
portrayed as a terrible parent is just not right."
Anahita, do you think the attorneys would have silenced the brother? I mean, why hasn`t he come forward before now?
SEDAGHATFAR: Well, I`m glad he finally is speaking out now, Dr. Drew, and we`re seeing this bit by bit that a lot of testimony, a lot of so-called
evidence that`s been put out in the media simply is not true. Thankfully people get tried in a court of law and not in a court of public opinion.
PINSKY: Samantha, still look a little -- you`re expressing outrage over this case.
SCHACHER: Yes. Because, I`m sorry, there`s a lot of damning evidence even though it is circumstantial. The fact he was just at Chik-Fil-A. The fact
he drove the ten minutes after his work to the mall with the windows rolled up and claims to never have seen anything, that every time he looked in the
rearview mirror, he never saw Cooper`s head over the child seat.
And are we forgetting what this kid went through? There was abrasions on his head, cuts on his face, on his arms, as he tried to break through. So
at this point, whether the dad neglected the child because he was so consumed with his erect penis pics, or whether it was because he wanted a
childfree life, I`m sorry --
SEDAGHATFAR: But you`re taking that at face value again, Sam. And we just saw what happened with this testimony.
SCHACHER: What testimony?
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: He was in a car. That`s a fact.
SEDAGHATFAR: When were the internet searches conducted? Can anybody answer that. What was the date alleged internet searches?
SCHACHER: Who cares.
SEDAGHATFAR: It absolutely is relevant to the case.
ELLIS: Do you believe he left that kid in the car for an entire day?
PINSKY: She knows that.
ELLIS: You know that, right?
SEDAGHATFAR: What?
ELLIS: That he left his child in the car for the entire day.
SEDAGHATFAR: The issue isn`t whether or not he should be punished for what he did. Here in this case, the issue is was this intentional or was this
an accident? That`s going to be a critical issue in this case.
PINSKY: You know what, Jason, Anahita`s doing her job. What I saw was you have a really intense emotional reaction when Sam described what really
went on with that kid, and I share that with you. It`s just disgusting. And that`s what we`re all really reacting to. We want some kind of justice
with that.
ELLIS: It`s not right to have that kind -- to feel like you need that kind of justice. But when a child suffers like that --
SCHACHER: I know.
(CROSSTALK)
ELLIS: I don`t -- I don`t have to -- I don`t have to make sense. I`m sick of making sense when you`re all out there torturing babies. You need to be
dealt with.
PINSKY: OK. There are questions, though, that still need to be answered. How long was Justin Harris in the car with the baby? Where did Justin look
when he went back to the car and opened the door? Was were the internet searches and when, as Anahita said? Was he googling a childfree life or
activities for kids on the cruise he wanted to take, which allegedly boasts -- maybe the childfree life was to find cruises without the kids, just in
case he -- who knows.
SEDAGHATFAR: No, Dr. Drew, that`s a stretch.
PINSKY: It`s all difficult to get our head around. All right, Kirsten, you`re the jury today. What say you?
HAGLUND: I mean, I just think that you have to look at the facts of case, which will come out when this is tried in a court of law, as Anahita had
said. But, you know, I think when you look at these other testimonies, I think they express what we all feel and that is that when we look at people
in our life that we know, our family members, our friends, we wouldn`t want to think that they would do anything wrong. But the fact remains that
sometimes people you know, Dr. Drew, they just sanp.
PINSKY: Yes.
HAGLUND: And you wouldn`t look at their lives and say that they would be capable of that, but sometimes things just happen.
PINSKY: It`s not the snapping; it`s not the snapping. That`s what I`m reacting to. It is that -- it is -- if we had said he was strung out on
meth and he left his kid behind, we`d all go, oh, I understand addiction, I got if. Now indeed, the drug addiction changes the brain and it changes
judgment. But sex addiction, I can`t tell you, can certainly make people preoccupied and ashamed and distracted. And there are consequences.
Jason?
ELLIS: I am a sex addict and I was a drug addict and I`ve never left my kid in the car. I never left my dog in the car.
PINSKY: But you can understand where it could -- if it got bad enough, if you really were ashamed and hiding it -- this guy was a pillar in the
church and you really were deep into this, you could be distracted to the point that you could do something awful. Get in a car accident, even,
right? And leaving a kid in a car is certainly one of the possibilities.
My point to bring it up is if anybody out there has these sorts of issues, please get help before you have horrible consequences for you, or worse,
for someone you love. We`re back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Where do you live?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I live on here on 5th and 45 on San Petro (ph) in front of a shelter. I`ve been in a mental health for a child and I`ve been
in foster care and I know (INAUDIBLE) my history.
PINSKY: What`s the mental health issue?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was raped and I`ve been sexually abused, and I`ve been violated all my life.
PINSKY: Am I still seeing a little black eye up there?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
PINSKY: What happened.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got assaulted three times in two months.
PINSKY: How do you get by now?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right now, I`m trying to get my mind stable.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: That is a look at my visit to Skid Row in Los Angeles. More than half a million, Sam, people in America are homeless. Some are mentally
ill. Some have addiction issues. Others have lost their jobs, their support systems. Domestic violence, lack of affordable housing, other
factors, 60,000 homeless population are veterans.
There is a way out. We will talk about it. You can see the entire piece at HLNtv.com/drdrew, D-R-E-W. That`s a "Homeless in America" series and
we`llcontinue with a new video post every Wednesday online.
SCHACHER: Yes, I`ve seen two of the videos, Dr. Drew. So powerful, so important that we have this dialogue.
PINSKY: Yes, it is really important stuff and I learned a lot going down there. It`s different than you expect. Some of the stuff you expect.
Whatever it is, we are failing a lot of people.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: And most people are aware that something`s got to change.
DVR us anytime, you can watch it anytime of course. "FORENSIC FILES" is beginning next.
END
