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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Family Lost Two Sons on Flight 17; FAA Prohibits U.S. Flights to Israel's Main Airport; Lufthansa Stops Flights; Identification of MH17 Victims

Aired July 22, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: Typically, it's three, but in this case it looks like two.

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: All right, David Soucie, thanks very much, Colonel Francona as well.

There are so many families, obviously, in anguish over the senseless tragedy. One mother lost two sons on board Flight 17.

The memories she's left with of what her little boys said to her right before leaving is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: As we talk about the black boxes, who's to blame, the missiles, the debris, the victims' family members are planning funerals, and they can only hope their loved ones will be returned to them so they can have a proper burial.

One of those in mourning, a mother who lost two of her sons on Malaysian Airline Flight 17, nearly lost a third.

Erin McLaughlin talked to her about a conversation she had with her little boy before he got on the doomed flight with his big brother.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ERIN MCLAUGHLIN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: A mother's regret.

SAMIRA CALEHR, VICTIM'S MOTHER: If I could just turn back time, you know, but I can't, you know? I didn't listen to him. I don't know. I have no words to say.

MCLAUGHLIN: Samir's three boys were setting out on a fun-filled holiday to the other side of the world, but the youngest, Miguel, was nervous.

S. CALEHR: My youngest son, he came to me, and then after entering the -- for the passport, he came back around to me and said, Mama, I love you, I'm happy to see Oma (ph), but I'm going to miss you, and what happened when the plane will crash?

I said, come on, don't be silly. You've been traveling already so many times. Everything's going to be OK. MCLAUGHLIN: Miguel and Shaka were on their way to meet their grandma

in Bali. Their other brother Mika had to catch another flight because MH-17 was fully booked.

And your big brother volunteered --

MIKA CALEHR, VICTIM'S BROTHER: Yeah.

MCLAUGHLIN: -- to go first with your little brother.

From all over the world, the family has come together. They're struggling to make sense of it all.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Everybody is crying, everybody is losing something that belonged to them, but we feel like we have lost ourselves as well.

Why didn't they take my life? They still young. They still have a future. Why, why the children? Why not me?

MCLAUGHLIN: How are you going to remember them?

M. CALEHR: It feels like they're already one with me now. The bond I have with them is just they're my best friends, they're my brothers, and I feel like they're going to watch over me forever.

MCLAUGHLIN: Erin McLaughlin, CNN, Amsterdam.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COOPER: It's just unthinkable, one family's loss.

Joining me now by phone from Amsterdam is Haroen Calehr, Shaka and Miguel's uncle. Haroen, thank you for being with us. I'm so sorry for your loss. I cannot imagine what your family is going through.

I know you were like a father figure to these boys. Tell us about them. What were they like?

HAROEN CALEHR, VICTIM'S UNCLE (via telephone): Thank you, Anderson, for your wishes. I just -- almost choking up again, just watching that piece.

Well, they were great kids. My sister had been a single mom for the last four years, and instead of being challenging teenagers, they were very comforting to her. They were her pillars. She relied on them. They cooked for her. They helped with house chores.

Shaka had just finished the first year of college. He's studying engineering, textile engineering. Miguel had just finished elementary school, and his dream was becoming a Formula One racecar driver, like a lot of boys dream. And so he had just gotten a go-cart license and he was just so happy.

But they were very joyful kids. And although they've been living under challenging financial and emotional times the last four years, they were always in a good mood.

COOPER: It's just -- I mean, it's impossible to even imagine the grief that you are going through.

Have you -- has your family received communications from authorities? Have you gotten the information that you're looking for at this point?

H. CALEHR (via telephone): Aside from the fact that we have heard that the train has departed and that the bodies are being collected, the body bags are being collected at the airport, not really.

The forensic authorities here in the Netherlands, there's two police officers that have been in contact with us. They have been very helpful and comforting. And they came this morning to take a DNA swab from my sister. And they explained the grueling process essentially a little bit. They were very blunt.

They apologized beforehand. They explained that they don't know how long the process would take -- it could take two-and-a-half months -- it could take four-and-a-half months -- the collection of the bags, the CSI or DNA-testing lab work, and whether we are recovering a limb or a body that's intact, he doesn't know.

And so, you know, they explained to us whether we wanted to just -- if they recover a limb, would we want to wait as a family to perhaps have both boys together, if at all, or do you want -- do we want to bury just part of it?

And that was incredibly difficult just to sit there, surreal. You're sitting there thinking, is this really happening?

COOPER: It must not seem real at times. A death always has those moments where you wake up and you think maybe this didn't happen. In this case, does it seem real to you at this point?

H. CALEHR (via telephone): Yes, sometimes you want to pinch yourself and, you know, human nature, you just show that you're wrong, that this is just something that's a nightmare, you're going to wake up any moment.

Then you see wonderful pieces that are being shown on your network primarily but on some other networks as well and you realize -- you're sitting there, you're saying, you know, this is really, this is really happening.

So that's why I was just choking up just now before coming on air, because it just hits you, it really hits you, like, OK, this is no nightmare. I wish it were. But it isn't.

COOPER: And your family has gathered together. You're together now, yes?

H. CALEHR (via telephone): We're together. I flew in from Houston. My mother was on her way to Bali. She was slated to arrive two hours prior to them, so she was going to wait for them at the airport in Bali. She had just landed in Singapore and was trying to catch the connecting flight. She only had an hour difference, so she was in a hurry, wanting to deplane, and of course that's when they told her and was still so disappointing that Malaysia Air, right after they expressed their sorrow about what happened, they said, well, it's not our fault, just really callous and bad timing.

So she then was diverted 10 hours later through London and finally to Amsterdam, and of course my sister, she lives 45 minutes away in a smaller city, away from Amsterdam, so she's here with her second son who, thank God, survived.

COOPER: Haroen, please extend our condolences to your sister, to her son, to the entire family.

It's an extraordinary loss. Words feel so small in the face of this loss, but I appreciate you talking to us about your nephews, thank you.

H. CALEHR (via telephone): Well, thank you for your tribute, we really appreciate it, Anderson.

COOPER: Thank you very much.

H. CALEHR (via telephone): Thank you.

COOPER: We wish you peace in the difficult days ahead. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: More breaking news at this hour, the FAA has just announced it's prohibiting U.S. airlines from flying to and from Israel's main airport.

I want to bring in our aviation correspondent, Richard Quest. So we already knew about some airlines making this decision. Now this is FAA banning all airlines?

RICHARD QUEST, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: No, banning U.S. carriers.

COOPER: U.S. carriers.

QUEST: They only have authority over U.S. carriers. But now the actions by Delta, United and U.S. Airways, American, become a lot clearer. They obviously knew this was coming. It's a notice to airmen, a notam (ph) as it's called, and it says, "you're prohibited from flying to or from Israel for a period of up to 24 hours. The notice is issued in response to a rocket strike which landed approximately one mile from Ben Gurion International Airport. The notam applies to U.S. operators. Had no authority other foreign airlines operating to or from."

COOPER: What sort of an impact, though, could this have on foreign carriers? Would - are other international bodies, now, going to start to reassess? QUEST: Oh, they will have to. I mean the FAA's done this. EASA (ph)

and Euro Control (ph), which there are equivalent numbers in the - in Europe, will have to look at it and make a decision one way or the other. BA says it's continuing to fly but has it under review. Lufthansa told me they're having meetings to discuss and decide what to do. But now the FAA has made this decision. Everybody else is going to have to make it - is going to have to take a position.

COOPER: We should still point out, EL AL continues to fly to Israel, obviously.

QUEST: Absolutely.

COOPER: I also want to bring in our John Vause. He joins me on the phone.

John, you were actually on the flight that was diverted. What did they actually say? How did they announce it?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): Yes, hey, Anderson.

We were about an hour outside of Tel Aviv and the pilot came on the announcement system and basically said just what Richard had told you just then, that a rocket had fallen about a mile outside of Ben Gurion Airport and out of an abundance of caution they had decided to reroute the plane, and they're heading back to Paris. Initially we weren't given a lot of information about what was going on and what the, you know, what would be happening. But initially we were told, you know, it would be a brief stay in Paris and they would reassess the five (ph) hour security window and then after that they would head back maybe to Tel Aviv depending on the security situation. But now we're being told that, yes, as Richard has reported it, you know, Delta and the other U.S.-based carriers are not flying to Israel. Air France, I'm told, is not flying there as well.

And what we're being told here at the capital (ph) right now is that the airport at Ben Gurion has actually been closed to all traffic. We're still working to confirm that. Contacting Tim (INAUDIBLE), our producer on the scene there. He said that he counted at least 12 planes still on approach, still coming in to land at Ben Gurion. They may have been on final approach and once they're down the airport may close, but we're still waiting for to get confirmation of that. But we are being told right now that the Israelis have actually closed the airport to all traffic.

Anderson.

COOPER: Well, John, let me just ask you, and, again, we're showing pictures that you took of people getting off the aircraft in Paris. You said that Air France isn't flying. Who told you that? Is that what you have heard from Delta representatives?

VAUSE: Yes. Yes. I'm at - I've tried to rebook my ticket, try to get, you know, to another - try to jump another flight to get there and, you know, this very friendly counter person has said that we'd love to help you out but we've just been told we're not flying there either. I asked how long and she said she didn't know.

COOPER: Interesting. And Delta hasn't given you any sense -- because the FAA, which is now saying no U.S. carriers can fly. They're putting a 24-hour wind on this. Delta hasn't said anything beyond that, obviously.

VAUSE: Yes. Not a lot of it (ph) (INAUDIBLE) coming from Delta at this point. We've kind of abandoned Delta (INAUDIBLE) Air France at this point. There's not a lot of Delta people around here to give us any direction at this point.

Anderson.

COOPER: Have you approached EL AL?

VAUSE: The plane (ph) went that route as well because, you know, I was under the impression that EL AL was, in fact, still flying in there. But if the airport's closed, then obviously EL AL, that decision is taken out of their hands. So, EL AL, sort of iffy right now. It will obviously depend on what the Israel government decides to do with the airport.

COOPER: We should point out, we have not been able to confirm that about the airport itself.

And, Richard, have you heard - have you heard anything on that?

QUEST: No, EL AL (INAUDIBLE) it's still flying.

COOPER: OK.

QUEST: They put on their FaceBook page they're still flying. But to give you an idea of how complex this is, there's a European low cast carrier called Wizz Air, which is a low cost carrier, they fly to Warsaw - from Tel Aviv to Warsaw, Vilmia (ph), Sophia (ph), Prague, Catavitchi (ph), Faluj (ph), Budapest, Bucharest. Now, we're waiting to hear from them if they're going to continue flying. It just shows you, Anderson, what's happening is exceptionally complex now that the U.S. carriers and the U.S. regulator has decided to put a hold on Tel Aviv. The ripples are now moving across the aviation industry.

COOPER: Do you follow Wizz Air on Twitter? How did you hear about Wizz Air?

QUEST: Because I know they have a lot of flights through Tel Aviv.

COOPER: OK.

QUEST: And that (INAUDIBLE) me in touch with the airline.

COOPER: This is what you do. OK.

QUEST: It's what I get paid to do.

COOPER: (INAUDIBLE). All right, John Vause as well. Thank you, John. I hope you were able to get back on a flight. In other news, so many family members and friends in the Malaysia

Airlines disaster are now waiting for their loved ones to be identified. And as you just heard from a family member, that process may take weeks or months. I'm joined by a medical examiner coming up next to find out exactly how difficult this process may be.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

COOPER: And welcome back.

We're just getting more breaking news. Our Richard Quest.

Richard, what have you just heard?

QUEST: I've just heard Lufthansa Group, which includes Lufthansa, Austrian and Swiss are now suspending all flights to Tel Aviv for the next 36 hours. They've been having meetings. They've decided to suspend flights for 36 hours. that would be Lufthansa from Frankfurt to Munich, Swiss from, obviously, Geneva Zurich (ph), and Austrian from Vienna. So quite a - so now - now life (ph) gets interesting because -

COOPER: So now it's all U.S. carriers because the FAA has stopped all U.S. carriers for the next 24 hours.

QUEST: Yes.

COOPER: Now it's the Lufthansa Group as well.

QUEST: Yes. I mean - so the ones we're waiting for to hear from, the big one, besides Lufthansa Group, you're now waiting to hear from Air France KLM, which is the other big carrier, Wizz Air, which is the largest low cost carrier, and you're waiting to hear from IAG, International Airlines Group, which owns --

COOPER: Which owns -

QUEST: Which owns British Airways, Iberia and Vueling.

COOPER: OK.

John Vause reporting just -- because he was on the flight -

QUEST: Yes.

COOPER: A Delta flight that was diverted. He went to an Air France representative who said that they are not flying in. But again, we can't - we can't confirm whether or not that's - if that's accurate.

QUEST: If I was -- my best hunch is, now Lufthansa has taken this decision. It's very difficult for the other major carriers to continue to fly in the European carriers. But we'll have to wait and see. We'll find out in the next hour (INAUDIBLE) of this.

COOPER: And, again, the impact of this, beyond the economic impact, just psychologically, I mean, it's a real blow to Israel. QUEST: No, there's no question. And in many ways I don't -- you know,

what -- this is the difficult situation Israel now faces. There probably was no realistic risk against those aircraft, but the mere perception has now led to a risk and, of course, the airlines have to respond even more so after MH17. What we have is one of the most complex and convoluted aviation environments now that I can recall.

COOPER: We should point out, as far as we know, EL AL still flying.

QUEST: EL AL says they're still flying. Let's see how that moves on because I think what you may find eventually happen is that Israel wants to be seen to be proactive in this and not being responsive to this. So let's wait and see over the next couple of hours. But certainly the fact that Lufthansa Group has suspended for 36 takes it -

COOPER: Very (INAUDIBLE).

QUEST: Takes it further on.

COOPER: Richard Quest, appreciate the update. Richard just getting that call right now.

Family members of the victims of Malaysian Airline Flight 17 waiting, obviously, for their loved ones to return home. We now know the victims, their bodies, are in Kharkiv. A Malaysian military representative tells us 282 bodies have been handed over to investigators, along with 87 other remains. Separate body parts in separate bags. The first flight to the Netherlands may take off as early as tomorrow. But even when it gets there, the Dutch prime minister says identification could take weeks or even months. I'm joined now by Dr. Jan, Dr. G, as many people call her.

Dr. G., how do you pronounce your last name? I'm sorry.

DR. JAN GARAVAGLIA, CHIEF MEDICAL EXAMINER: Garavaglia.

COOPER: Garavaglia, which is probably why many people reference you as Dr. G., live from Orlando. She's chief -

GARAVAGLIA: Exactly.

COOPER: She's chief medical examiner for the Orlando area. You may recognize her from her show, "Dr. G., Medical Examiner" on the Discovery Health Channel.

First of all, how difficult is it to identify the victims from this flight, given what we know about the conditions at the crash site, how long they were there, how long this whole process has been.

GARAVAGLIA: Right. So the very -- the one rule about identification is the quicker you get on it, the better, because visual identification is going to be the easiest and quickest. As long as you can complement that with other factors you find with the body to make sure it's a correct visual. Obviously, that's gone. That time period has passed. You spend three days, four days, five days out in 80 degree weather, you are starting to bloat, skin slip. It's not something you can do anymore with a visual identification.

COOPER: Which is why -- which is why family members, we're told, have already started to give DNA samples to authorities in the Netherlands. Is there a lot that investigators - I mean I don't want to get into, you know, to too much detail here for a lot of people who may be watching, but is there a lot that investigators can actually learn about what happened on board that plane from the victims themselves?

GARAVAGLIA: Right. Right. So not only do they need to be identified, they should be autopsied because you're going to find out - you have a flight manifest and you should know where roughly these people are seated. And the injuries that they have may help you pinpoint where the -- most of the shrapnel were coming from.

COOPER: You can also tell - I mean whether - or - I mean people have smoke in their lungs, smoke inhalation, exactly how long the aircraft might have been flying for, correct?

GARAVAGLIA: You could. Chances are if it's not an explosion on board, if there's a secondary fire, I think what you would be able to tell is if there is evidence that they were alive for a while with the fire on board.

COOPER: And the process we're talking about for identification, I mean, that's the most important thing for the families, getting their loved ones back. Are we talking weeks? Are we talking months?

GARAVAGLIA: Yes, it depends because we do have a flight manifest. So it's not that you're starting from zero that you don't even know who these people are. We are, at this point, I'm sure authorities are gathering any known fingerprints that these people may have on file. Very few people do.

COOPER: Right.

GARAVAGLIA: They're gathering any dental records. And that's why the authorities are having to go to the families. Ultimately, the one that's going to take the longest and is usually not the first line will be the DNA.

COOPER: Yes.

GARAVAGLIA: But keep in mind, you have to compare the person's DNA to something. Keep in mind, they're now decomposed. It's going to be difficult to get their blood. You're going to have to use other items.

COOPER: Yes.

GARAVAGLIA: And you're going to have to either compare --

COOPER: Dr. Garavaglia, I am sorry, I've just got to wrap you up. We're losing your satellite. Dr. Jan Garavaglia, appreciate it.

Thanks very much for watching. I'll be back at 8:00 tonight for a special two-hour edition of "A.C. 360." Wolf, live from Jerusalem, starts now.