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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Ukrainian Troops Seize Control; Experts Blocked Again; Crash Investigation Delay; Hospital Hit; Israelis Admit Their Errant Mortar Shell Hit U.N. School; Another America Aid Worker Contracts Ebola

Aired July 28, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: We'll hope those efforts continue.

That's it for us AT THIS HOUR. "LEGAL VIEW" with Pamela Brown starts now.

PAMELA BROWN, CNN ANCHOR: The fighting and frustration explosions once again force investigators away from the crash site of a Malaysian passenger plane brought down in a war zone. Will we ever find out who fired the missile that brought the plane down?

And, more chaos and bloodshed in the Middle East. Hamas-run TV says this is what happened when an Israeli drone struck a hospital in Gaza today. But Israel says it was a Hamas missile that hit the hospital. We're live in the region.

And it's the deadliest Ebola outbreak ever. Two Americans fighting one of the most fatal diseases on the planet come down with it themselves. This hour, we'll break down exactly what this disease is and how the infection is spreading.

Hello, everyone. I'm Pamela Brown, in for Ashleigh Banfield. It is Monday, July 28th. Great to have you with us and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

And we begin with the fact that this should have been the day almost 50 investigators from Europe and Australia finally got a proper look of the crash site of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17 in eastern Ukraine. But instead, for the second day in a row, the team is being blocked by heavy fighting between Ukraine's government and pro-Russian militants. That's despite having negotiated with both sides for safe passage. The separatists now claim Ukrainian troops have seized control of part of the crash site which is vast but that has not been confirmed. CNN's Kyung Lah maps out what we do now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In the contested area Ukraine holds territory to the west and north. Russia sits to the east. The pro-Russian rebels command the land in the middle. The crash site sits in the town of Hrabove, in the center of the rebel region. Ukrainian forces have encircled the city of Donetsk in an attempt to cut off the rebels. Fighting is heading north toward the crash scene.

(END VIDEOTAPE) BROWN: And over the weekend, the U.S. State Department put out satellite photos that supposedly prove Russian troops fired artillery from Russia into Ukraine. Russia says it wants an impartial investigation.

And Michael Bociurkiw is spokesman for the European team that's so close and yet so far from the plane debris and human remains that have yet to be retrieved 11 days after this crash.

Michael, thank you for coming on to speak with us.

So, if you would, just help us better understand, were your people forcibly blocked today or did they just decide it was too dangerous?

MICHAEL BOCIURKIW, OSCE SPOKESMAN: Hi there. It's good to be with you again.

Yes, it was decided to be too dangerous. We -- it's such a loss, such a -- so unfortunate because we were already approximately two-thirds of the way there to the site. We had the largest contingent to date of experts joining our 12 monitors. And there was an understanding on both sides that this is a crucial mission and that people would lay down their arms, their weapons, for us to - for this unarmed civilian mission to proceed forward.

However, when we reached a checkpoint, there were loud explosions. We stayed there for about 45 minutes. And then decision with Dutch and Australian colleagues was made to come back. And again, it's such a tragedy because every day that passes is another day lost. That site is so vulnerable to manmade and natural factors. As you know, there are still human remains there. A lot could have been done today but it wasn't possible.

BROWN: So troubling to think about that. And as you mentioned, your team had already negotiated safe passage to the crash site. Are you still trying to negotiate a visit? Is there any point?

BOCIURKIW: Well, today, our chief monitor, Ambassador Apakan, who, by the way, is a very seasoned diplomat from Turkey, he held high-level discussions with the Ukrainian side, Dutch and Australian senior officials, and also here on this side talks are taking place with the rebel groups. So I think that message will be hammered home again about what I just said, is that it's crucial we get out there and we're going to make another attempt tomorrow morning.

BROWN: Yes, like you mentioned, every day that passes, valuable time is lost. And, Michael, we've seen journalists have entry to and from that crash site. Some CNN journalists. What do you think it will take for that to happen for investigators?

BOCIURKIW: Well, we've always said what is required is safe and unhindered passage. In fact, today, one of the priorities was to visit an impact site which hasn't been scoured yet. And we know from long distance observation is that there are - there is debris there, possibly even human remains. And, again, part of the loss of today I think also is that within this team of about 50, 60 individuals, you have such diversity of skills and of talent and they had gear with them ready to go and yet no one was able to actually get to the site.

Now, just quickly, of course, work does continue here in Donetsk city. There's an operations room and a mapping and analysis going on. But we really need to get there as soon as possible.

BROWN: All right. Thank you so much, Michael Bociurkiw. Thank you and good luck with getting to that crash site. We appreciate you talking with us.

And let's analyze this more. Joining me now with more on this uniquely just exasperating investigation is CNN aviation analyst and former managing director of the National Transportation Safety Board Peter Goelz, from New York we're joined by CNN safety analyst and former FAA investigator David Soucie.

Peter, I want to start with you. First off, is it possible, after all of this time, to gather enough evidence to prove who did what?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Certainly. I mean the evidence, the physical evidence, doesn't deteriorate over time. The impact holes made by an exploding missile, the fragments that are going through the skin of the metal, can be analyzed a week after. It can be analyzed a month after. That kind of evidence will not disappear. They can't steal all the parts to cover up what happened.

What is going on is just sadly a continuing outrage to the family members. I mean this is just unacceptable.

BROWN: And the fact that there are still remains there at that -- at the crash site.

David, when do you think the teams, when they get back in, what will the focus be on? Will it first be on getting to those remains?

DAVID SOUCIE, CNN SAFETY ANALYST: It has to be. With every investigation, that is the number one priority. I've been looking at satellite images provided by Airbus Defense and by All Source and what they've shown me and what they've analyzed and given to me is the fact that the area that Michael was referring to has not been touched. There's an area off to the west beyond the trees where there is definitely signs of debris and human remains there as well. They need to be addressed quickly. They need to be there right away. The 50 team, as I understand it, I've been in contact with the lead investigator, and what they're doing is they're separating that team into two areas of focus and hopefully both of those will get handled concurrently so that it will be less time at the site.

BROWN: Peter, you've handled a lot of plane crash investigations. I'm curious to know what your perspective is, how you think the size of this crash site compares with most.

GOELZ: Well, it's large but it's really is not uncommon. As David would say, this plane came apart suddenly at altitude. So it's going to be spread out over a significant area. But it's not unheard of. It's what happened when you have a tragedy such as this.

BROWN: All right. Thank you so much, David Soucie and Peter Goelz. Nice to have you on the show.

GOELZ: Thank you.

BROWN: And our other big story today, more devastating violence in Gaza. A hospital has apparently been hit. What we are learning about the injuries and the blame game. Both sides have completely different stories. The details on that just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: More attacks and more of each side blaming each other happening right now in the Israel/Gaza conflict. A Hamas-run TV network is airing this video of what they claim is the aftermath of an Israeli strike on a Palestinian hospital. But Israel's military says the damage is actually from a failed Hamas rocket launch. Now both the Israeli military and Gaza's health ministry agree there were 10 people kill and another strike at a refugee camp nearby. But again, there is no agreement on who fired the rockets.

And, meantime, a top Israeli official says Israel is observing an unlimited cease-fire, which means Israeli soldiers will only fire on Gaza when fired upon directly and will only target where the firing is coming from. The Israeli army will also continue to destroy tunnels militants have used to sneak into Israel. The demolition of the tunnels is a big sticking point in cease-fire negotiations.

And over the weekend, a short-lived cease-fire ended after only 12 hours when Hamas fired missiles into Gaza. A Hamas leader says the violence will end when Israeli soldiers leave Gaza. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu told CNN on Sunday that he hopes for sustained calm as soon as possible.

And, meantime, The U.N. Security Council is calling for a full stop to the fighting. This morning, we heard from Secretary of State John Kerry, who just returned from the region.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: The biggest challenge is trying to get many factions to cooperate, to reach the same aim. Let me tell you something, as somebody who's in the middle of trying to get some people just get seven days of a cease-fire in the Middle East, I know what you're talking about, I tell you. It's never easy, but that doesn't mean you stop and that doesn't mean you turn away. You have to keep doing it. Remember what Nelson Mandela did -- said. It always seems impossible until it is done. And that's what we have to have as our guide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: And there you heard from Secretary of State John Kerry. And a spokesman for the Israeli military talked about the violence at the U.N., at a school there in the U.N. But we want to first hear from Ian Lee. He joins me live from Gaza City.

We know about the school, the shelter, the U.N. shelter, but also there is a hospital that was hit. Ian, if you would, set the stage for us, how many were injured, how many were children.

IAN LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Pam, this situation is very fluid right now. What we're hearing, what we know is that the Shifa hospital, this is the main hospital in Gaza, was hit. We're also hearing that a -- one of the camps here in Gaza, these refugee camps that have been around for decades, one of these was also hit. In these -- at the same time now, we're hearing that 10 children have been killed, this is according to the Palestinian ministry of health here in Gaza, and over 40 people are injured.

Now the question is, what caused these explosions? Now, authorities here in Gaza are accusing Israel of firing rockets that hit these two areas and killed these people. Now, Israelis are denying this. They are saying that the strikes were from failed Hamas rockets. That they fell out of the sky and they hit these areas. And then the authorities here came back at that and said that that is just a cover up, that they have the evidence of the rockets, that they're going to show the world that these were, in fact, missile strikes from Israel. So both sides blaming the other. We are going to wait for an independent body to look at this, to investigation, to find out what ultimately happened. We do have a team on the ground at Shifa hospital investigating what exactly happened.

Now, I was at Shifa hospital yesterday and it is a large compound. This is the main hospital. There's multiple buildings in the area. There's also a lot of people taking shelter from the conflict. When you walk around, you see tents, makeshift tents. You see people sleeping in corridors. And that's on top of the people who are already there, the patients, their families, their doctors. It is quite a crowded area. And when I was there yesterday, we did witness Israeli air strikes that landed fairly close. So, if this was a strike, there's going to be a lot of questions. Hospitals are not legitimate targets during war. So there will be -- need to be an investigation to figure out what exactly happened.

BROWN: All right. The blame game continues. Thank you so much, Ian Lee.

As we mentioned, this comes just days after a school was hit in Gaza. Palestinians were outraged.

What Israel is saying about its own investigation into the attack, right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: A spokesman for the Israeli military says it is not responsible for anyone killed last week when a motor hit the courtyard of a U.N. school where many Gaza residents had gone to seek shelter. The explosion killed at least 16 people.

CNN's Sara Sidner is there for us. Tell us, what did they see?

SARA SIDNER, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, we can tell you that Hamas has not said anything about investigating. Israel said it would investigate. And it did. But the conclusion of that investigation is causing quite a bit of controversy.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SIDNER: It was supposed to be a safe haven during intense bombing in Gaza, but this United Nations-run school turned shelter suddenly hit with at least one explosion, shrapnel peppering the walls.

The U.N. and the ministry of Health in Gaza says 16 people were killed, more than 200 injured, including children, women and men, filling already overstuffed hospitals.

Initially, both Israel and Hamas blamed each other for the strike. Israel promised to investigate, and it did, releasing this video from the Israeli military as proof of its conclusion. The shot from high above Beit Hanoun neighborhood, where the UNRA school is located, and then a dark puff of smoke from where an Israeli mortar struck the school's inner courtyard.

On a conference call, IDF spokesman Peter Lerner told us a single, errant Israeli mortar landed in the courtyard in the school. The footage we have showed the courtyard was empty.

It is extremely unlikely anybody was killed by that mortar fire, he said. There could have been injuries from the shrapnel, ultimately saying we reject the claim people were killed by the IDF mortar on the school premises.

The statement left many questions. We tried to get answers from the Israeli prime minister's spokesman, Mark Regev.

How can they possibly know the difference between whether shrapnel killed someone or injured someone?

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT CHIEF SPOKESMAN: First of all, what happened in the school was a tragedy, innocent people were killed, the pictures are terrible, and no human being cannot be moved.

The question is, who is responsible? And that, we have to look very closely. We have to make sure that we get to the truth.

SIDNER: Regev says it was a mistake made in the fog of war and blames Hamas for firing rockets from near the school.

The video given to the media is low resolution, making it hard to see in the shadows, and edited down to only 18 seconds. It doesn't show any rocket fire in the area at the time and doesn't extend to the minutes after the strike when ambulances are said to have arrived.

CNN journalist Karl Penhaul explains what he saw when he got to the scene two hours after the strike.

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: There were bloodstains. There were pools of blood.

Those pools of blood appeared to be against the wall of the main building, and that would have been consistent with that being an area that was in shade at the time that this attack took place, bearing in mind that the attack occurred about mid-afternoon Gaza time.

We saw bits of clothing strewn around that area of the courtyard.

SIDNER: The United Nations Relief and Work Agency which runs the school is calling for a full and transparent investigation.

Palestinians are more pointed in their assessment, blaming Israel for the bloodshed, period.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

Now, we just got a statement from UNRA in which they say that the school was filled with hundreds of people trying to take refuge and that their staff was there when the shelling took place, and that's when people were killed and injured.

They also say that after the first strike, there were many other strikes in the vicinity of the school within a matter of minutes.

Of course, the investigation still going on, we heard that from the prime minister's spokesperson, Mark Regev, that they're still looking into it, but certainly a lot of controversy after that.

I want to give you some breaking news, updated news from Gaza. Just a short time ago, phone calls and texts were made to the civilian populations of several parts of Gaza, including Zaytun, Shuja'iyya, and Jalabiya, calling all of the people there to evacuate into central Gaza City

So three, very densely populated areas, calling the residents there, Israel saying you need to move out of that area and into Gaza City.

Clearly, that is an indication, because when we've gotten these before, that is the indication that there will start being more air strikes or some kind of military action from Israel into Gaza after rockets have been coming over the border into Israel from Gaza.

Pamela?

BROWN: Just to recap that breaking news you mentioned, the civilian population in Gaza asked to move into central Gaza City, and as you said, that's an indication that there will be more rockets there in the vicinity, and this will continue.

Thank you so much for your reporting, Sara Sidner, and thank you for trying to get the answers for us. We appreciate it.

And another big story we're following, an Ebola outbreak striking new victims who were caring for the sick. Two Americans, a doctor and an aid worker are infected.

So what's it like to treat that horrible, deadly disease? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: If Ebola got graded on its ability to kill people, it would get an A. It doesn't discriminate and will kill or infect just about everyone would gets close to it.

And now we have learned a second American in Liberia has contracted the disease. Nancy Writebol, an American aid worker treating Ebola patients in the capital city, Monrovia, has tested positive for the disease.

And this comes after the news that Dr. Kent Brantly, an American also treating Ebola patients in that same city, was confirmed as infected.

Ebola has ravaged parts of West Africa over the past few months, killing 660 people across Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia. Now the normal death rate is 98 percent. Thankfully, early treatment has kept the death rate for this particular outbreak at around 60 percent.

And Ebola's highly fatal and contagious nature makes it very difficult to see up close without the risk of infection, and that's evident from the two Americans who are now sick that we just talked about.