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Israel Spells Out What's Needed for Cease-Fire; Delay at MH17 Crash Site Due to Fighting; E.U. Agrees to New Sanctions on Russia; Obama's Foreign Policy Facing More Tough Tests; Ebola Becomes Major Worldwide Threat

Aired July 29, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Week three of the escalating violence between Israel and Hamas. Israel is spelling out exactly what it will take to agree to a cease-fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: We need Hamas to stop shooting rockets into Israeli cities. We need Hamas to stop infiltrating through tunnels with armed groups of terrorists with explosives and automatic weapons and automatic weapons, trying to kill out people. We need Hamas to cease all offensive operations against Israel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to bring in Fatah Central Committee member, Nabil Shaath, joins us from Ramallah in West Bank. He's a former Palestinian, former minister.

You just heard Mark Regev for the Israeli authorities speaking. I'm curious, sir, what your reaction is to the calls from Israel saying they want Palestinians to stop shooting, for Hamas to cease this intensive aggressive behavior toward them. What is your reaction?

NABIL SHAATH, FATAH CENTRAL COMMITTEE MEMBER & FORMER PALESTINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Well, first of all, there is nothing Hamas is doing, whatever it is, that justifies this carnage in Gaza. You can see it on your television set. I have not heard any casualty figure among Israeli civilians because of the rockets set out but I can see and tell that at least 1,800 Palestinians, most of them women and children, were killed by Israeli bombing. That 25,000 Palestinian homes have been destroyed by Israeli bombing and that half the population of Gaza has become refugees because of this carnage.

Therefore, the question is not how much the Israelis are bothered my Hamas's rockets. The question is when are you going to stop this genocide in Gaza. Weapon an immediate cease-fire to please get us started, followed by a serious rethinking about ending the Israeli occupation and siege of Gaza, and providing us some chance that the Palestinians in Gaza will have a decent secure life, which they haven't had for years. This is really where we are today. And you can see it on your

television set. I've just heard Mr. Kerry talk about the Ukrainian thing and stating that the Ukrainians have shown -- displayed appalling disregard for human decency. I wonder how much disregard for human decency have the Israelis shown in Gaza.

BERMAN: Sir, the Palestinian Authority proposed a 24-hour cease-fire. Hamas has rejected that. Do you believe that Hamas truly wants peace? And talk to me about the tunnels from Gaza into Israel. What are they for if not to infiltrate and target civilians?

SHAATH: Well, Hamas is, in fact, not the target of the Israeli bombing. The Israeli bombing's targeting civilians. It's targeting the people of Gaza, and no doubt these civilians need a chance to survive and to live decently. You've just destroyed all the power station in Gaza. And hospitals have been destroyed all over the place. And, therefore, yes, we want a cease-fire. The Palestinian people are for a cease-fire, a cease-fire that at least guarantees them a chance of surviving and living after a cease-fire is achieved. We want no more Israeli siege and destruction of Gaza.

BERMAN: But Hamas just rejected a 24-hour cease-fire.

SHAATH: Come again?

BERMAN: I said Hamas just rejected a 24-hour cease-fire.

SHAATH: Hamas is saying -- I don't necessarily approve of what they are saying -- but they are saying they need an Israeli assurance that they will reciprocate because the Israelis rejected Mr. Kerry's initiative and the United Nations initiative for a humanitarian cease- fire. Now, if you want another cease-fire negotiated, Hamas needs an assurance that the Israelis will also abide by it. We, here in the leadership of the Palestinian people, want a cease-fire immediately, to stop the carnage in Gaza.

PEREIRA: At some point, one side has to blink on either side to stop the escalation.

We want to say thank you for Nabil Shaath for joining us.

Thank you so much, sir.

BERMAN: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, tensions escalate as the U.S. accuses Russia of violating a 1987 nuclear missile treaty. This, as a question of whether Russia may get hit with new meaningful sanctions.

PEREIRA: Once again, investigators are turned away from the flight 17 crash site in Ukraine. When will fighting cease so investigators can investigate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Well, for the third straight day, the international team of investigators could not get to the crash site of flight 17 because of all the fighting going on in Ukraine. They are hoping to get there though in the next day or two. As we've been reporting there's been an escalation in the fighting, which could mean more delays.

BERMAN: @THISHOUR, wreckage, human remains and evidence from what has been called the world's biggest crime scene, all sits exposed.

We want to bring in aviation analyst, Peter Goelz. To finally get there, Peter, they're going to have to work fast over this huge site. What should their priorities to be?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Obviously, the first priority is to recover all of the victims and human remains. That is, without question, the first issue. Secondly, they then need to start getting key physical pieces of the aircraft that indicate whether or whether it has not been hit by a missile. Many of the photographs are pretty telling in that it shows what appears to be missile fragment indentations. And the third thing they need to do is look for actual pieces of the missile. My guess is the Russians and their surrogates have been scouring the area to try and remove any evidence of the missile. They can't do it from the plane wreckage, but they might be able to pick up pieces of the missile. They need to throw question -- a question mark into the investigation if at all possible.

PEREIRA: Another one of our safety analysts, David Soucie, was on our air last night on CNN, and was talking about the way that the shrapnel came into the plane, there's a chance that -- and I apologize for people watching at home because this is awfully grizzly what we're talking about. There's a chance that the people might have been alive when the plane went down. Do you agree with that assessment and, if so, what does that tell us aside from us, what does that tell us about the investigation?

GOELZ: The plane clearly catastrophically came apart at 33,000 feet. It's very likely -- and I've looked at this at a couple of other accidents, particularly on scene at TWA-800. It is likely that the passengers were either knocked unconscious or killed very quickly once the plane started to come undone. But some of the bodies will show impact from the missile fragments. That's very possible that the fragmentation of the warhead injured passengers. And the Dutch medical officials will be able to see that.

What's key in this investigation is that it proceed methodically, without political interference, that its results be unquestionable in terms of science. And I know the Dutch are desperately trying to do that. And the Ukrainians frankly, they aught not to be using each and every bit of information politically. The key is a clear, unbiased investigation.

BERMAN: Peter Goelz, thank you so much for being with us.

Obviously, the hope is that investigators can get to the scene as quickly as possible to do the work that they so badly need to do, but right now the fighting, both sides, Ukraine government and the pro Russian rebels getting in the way.

PEREIRA: And we talk about delay after delay after delay, we wonder at what point is that crime scene hopelessly compromised. Hopefully, that is not any time soon. We're going to take a short break. Still ahead, the conflict in

Ukraine could mean even stronger and broader sanctions on Russia. We'll talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, we have more breaking news for you. E.U. ministers have just agreed to a new series of sanctions against Russia for Russia's role in and around the conflict in Ukraine. These are more serious sanctions dealing in the tech sector, the energy industry, also arms, and the financial sector that deals primarily in London.

Let's go to Nic Robertson for us right now to get more details on what these sanctions mean for Russia and really mean for Europe now stepping up their game in this conflict.

NIC ROBERTSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: John, this certainly could mean some pain for Europe. Germany, the energy sector, Britain, the financial sector, these countries may be hurt by these sanctions. France may not be immediately hurt. The arms sanctions being put in place now will only affect new contracts, so the two warships that France has built and completed and is testing and is selling to the Russians that is in process right now, that apparently won't be affected.

But what we're looking at here, the European Union has agreed that eight more cronies, as they're called, of President Putin, will be hit with individual sanctions. Those names will be released Wednesday. But there will be sanctions on the armed sector, limiting imports from and exports to Russia. There will also be -- there will also be some banking sector controls put in place that will impact banks here that are sort of principally state controlled and state run. And there will also be on the energy sector as well, affecting the import of equipment for the energy sector. So, for example, oil exploration that Russia wants to get under way, an accelerator in the Arctic Circle, that may be affected. It will affect their ability of the energy companies to import the equipment from outside that they need to use.

How will Russia respond to this? That's not clear yet. They haven't said what they'll do -- John?

PEREIRA: All right, we appreciate it, Nic Robertson.

Again, the question is, will the E.U. step up? It looks as though they've leveled those sanctions against Russia. Obviously, a story we'll be watching.

Ahead @THISHOUR, as the crises mount in Europe, is President Obama's foreign policy strong enough to respond to them? We'll discuss.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: @THISHOUR, President Obama's foreign policy is facing more tough tests. Russia is accused of violating a missile treaty for the past six years. The U.S. and its allies are looking to slap tough new sanctions. We've heard of some of them just now from Nic Robertson on Moscow over the Ukraine conflict.

BERMAN: Plus, Secretary of State John Kerry, he has been hard at work to no avail. His cease-fire proposal for Gaza rejected by the Israeli cabinet. Worst, it was called by a betrayal by some in the Israeli media.

We're joined by our political commentators, Margaret Hoover, along with political analyst, John Avlon.

Let's start with the breaking news we just had dealing with Ukraine. The Europeans, the E.U., saying they will issue harsher sanctions on Russia, harsher than we have seen. Serious enough, perhaps, John, to make a difference.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Finally starting to step up after almost two weeks after MH-17. This is one of the real questions. The U.S. has really led on sanctions against Russia and it's showing signs of some success. Some Russian oligarchs are feeling the heat around Putin. But until the European Unions steps up, they're going to be ineffective. So it's a significant step in the right direction. The question is whether it's too little, too late.

PEREIRA: It's too little too late when you realize, too, how many of those economies are reliant on trade with and to Russia.

MARGARET HOOVER, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: The sanctions themselves, if fully implemented, including the United States, will be significant. The question is, is it enough to stop Russia from what they are doing? There are new reports Russia is aggregating the missile agreement we had, that Reagan negotiated with Gorbachev in 1987. President Putin is the guy who said the worst thing that happened in the 20th century was the fall of the Soviet Union. It's no surprise that the aggregation of that missile treaty has actually began in 2008 when President Obama got into office.

BERMAN: Obviously, the hot spot in the world right now is the Middle East and Gaza. Secretary of State Kerry knows a little about politics himself. He was once the nominee, Democratic nominee for president. He has been hard at work, trying to negotiate a peace, to no avail at all, really, for months and months and months. And now trying to negotiate a cease-fire to no avail.

A lot of criticism from the Israelis. It's interesting, though, politically, in the United States, politicians almost universally here voicing their support for Israel. Surprising?

AVLON: No, not at all. The United States, Israel is one of America's closest allies historically along with Great Britain. So it's not a surprise at all. You're starting to see politically more schisms than there have been in the past, particularly folks on the far left expressing some criticism of Israel. And it's reflected in the diversity of the country. We have large Palestinian-American, Muslim- American populations in this nation as well. But in terms of the double criticism of Kerry, there's an old line, "Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall catch hell from both sides." That's what's happening to John Kerry as he tries to get a cease-fire negotiation.

PEREIRA: It sticks with me, Margaret, the U.S. can't want this cease- fire more than Israel and Hamas. And that puts him in a no-win situation. And that, essentially, puts the Obama administration in a no-win situation.

HOOVER: And John Kerry, which is why he's basically come away with nothing, after three attempts, one failed by the Palestinians, failed one other, rejected by the Israelis. It's true, we can't want peace more than they can. Any peace agreement has to meet both sets of obligations. You can understand where the Israelis are coming from. Those tunnels have to be destroyed. The mounting deaths of the Palestinians is a humanitarian tragedy.

AVLON: And behind all this is that glaring absence of a clear Obama doctrine. It's one of the questions about the strength and vision of this administration's foreign policy. They would prefer to do things a little more conservative, a little more a la carte.

(CROSSTALK)

HOOVER: Leading from behind.

AVLON: Leading from behind as some have said. A lot of hot spots now, and the world is crying out for U.S. leadership.

BERMAN: All right, John Avlon, Margaret Hoover, thank you for being with us.

HOOVER: Thanks, guys.

BERMAN: Appreciate it, guys.

PEREIRA: We're going to change direction, to another major threat worldwide. The deadliest Ebola outbreak in history is plaguing West Africa. According to the World Health Organization, 1,200 cases in Liberia, Sierra Leone and New Guinea. More than half of the cases have resulted in death. So bad, Liberia's closed its border in an effort to stop the virus.

BERMAN: The latest victims include two American aid workers who were in Liberia for the organization Samarians Purse. Both are now being cared for at a hospital in northern Liberia. And as this casualty count builds higher, the question a lot of people here are asking is, could Ebola be a threat here in the United States.

We're joined by our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, let's start with the two American victims. What do we know about them, their status? And, you know, they're in northern Liberia right now. Should they be evacuated?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: We don't know how they contracted this. That's part of the problem with this Ebola virus. Just a small amount of fluid somewhere on your skin can potentially infect somebody. They were obviously taking precautions, so not exactly sure how it happened.

The question about evacuation is a really interesting one. This is one where a lot of people are weighing in. A few considerations. First, are they medically stable enough to fly? Look, they're quite sick. That may be a consideration. How would they fly? An airplane that wouldn't get other people sick. You would have to make that -- take those precautions. And then where would they go, exactly? Which other country can provide the resources? They're working through that right now. They're against the clock a bit on that.

PEREIRA: We know there's other Americans, expatriates, if you will, in Liberia, too. There's a questions about whether those people will be assisted by the embassy there. I'm curious about this, because I think people are thinking there's an international airport in Liberia, folks can get on an airplane and travel, unknowingly transmitting this disease to the United States. How real of a concern is that?

GUPTA: People have been asking that question from all the different infectious disease organizations. I think people are soft pedaling this answer because they're worried that it's going to strike fear in people. What I would say, having been over there and, as you point out, there are cities with international airports there, this is going to happen at some point. It can take up to 21 days between someone being exposed to the Ebola virus and being sick from it. 21 days. People can fly all over the world during that time. I don't thing it's going to be surprising if we hear of somebody landing in other countries, possibly the United States as well, that has the Ebola virus.

The question really becomes is how much of a threat is that to other people. I think that's pretty minimal. This isn't particularly -- it's not like the story where someone's shaking hands with a bunch of people in the airport and they're all getting infected. That's not the way Ebola works. People are usually very, very sick before they start to actually spread the virus. So if someone with Ebola did land in the United States, they'd be in isolation, they'd be getting the resources to try to save their lives. But the idea of it spreading through a community or a city as a result I think is pretty remote.

PEREIRA: Dr. Gupta, always giving us the voice of reason. We appreciate it as always.

GUPTA: You've got it. Thank you.

PEREIRA: That's it for us @THISHOUR. I'm Michaela Pereira. Thanks for joining us.

BERMAN: And I'm John Berman.

"LEGAL VIEW" starts right now.