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ERIN BURNETT OUTFRONT
Hamas Rejects New Truce, Fighting Rages On; Top Ebola Doctor Dies from the Virus
Aired July 29, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ERIN BURNETT, CNN HOST: Next breaking news, Hamas says no to a cease- fire. Israel says it was on board. So what will it take to get people to agree?
Plus, commercial planes flying over war zones right now and every single hour of the day. An OUTFRONT special report.
And the deadliest Ebola outbreak in world history. The virus killing another doctor tonight. Is an American outbreak just a plane ride away? Let's go OUTFRONT.
Good evening, everyone. I'm Erin Burnett. We begin OUTFRONT tonight with the breaking news. Hamas rejecting any cease-fire with Israel. The leader of Hamas' military wing tonight saying, quote, "There is no middle ground until Israel ends its quote/unquote, "aggression" and quote/unquote, "cease of Gaza."
Israel said today, it is ready for a cease-fire agreement as the ball is in Hamas' court. So what went so terribly wrong? So far Palestinian officials say 1,229 people in Gaza have died since the latest conflict began. Almost all of them civilian. Israel says 53 of the soldiers and three civilians have been killed in the fighting.
OUTFRONT tonight, Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem. Karl Penhaul in Gaza City. I want to begin with you, Karl. Do we have that shot back? Sorry. I know where you're standing there have been flares. The fighting has been going on and on. That's why there's been difficulty with the shot. What are you seeing now?
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right now, Erin, even if I step just a little bit out of shot, that's the picture. It looks like a big black hole out there tonight. And there's a reason for that. It's because Gaza's main and only power plant, in fact, just south of where we are now has been hit. It's been damaged. For much of the day, the diesel storage tanks were on fire. It's out of action.
The chief of the power plant says it could be out of action for up to a year. Now like so many other incidents in the confrontation, there's controversy over who fired the piece of ammunition, who destroyed the storage tanks. The Israelis say that was not on our target list. But they say that they are checking into it, to see if it may have been another round -- Erin.
BURNETT: Karl, in terms of the cease-fire, you talk of a cease-fire where you are. Have you been seeing flares? Any sorts of explosions tonight?
PENHAUL: We have seen quite a large explosion, a series of large explosions across the eastern part of Gaza towards the border with Israel. And in the night we have heard -- sorry. You mentioned explosions and there is another one again out towards eastern Gaza.
There have been a number of F-16 fighter bombers making low runs over the area and dumping what we believe were 2,000-pound bunker buster bombs in the area during the course of the late afternoon as well. That same site was also being heavily pounded by the same type of bombs.
The kind of bombs, the weight of the bombs and the size of the explosions, some of the largest that I've seen in the last two weeks, and it kind of indicates to me that those may be targeting underground tunnel complexes. But we have no confirmation on that so far.
We have heard artillery fire and quite interesting, again in the east of Gaza. Fairly close in. We have heard small arms fire. A light machine gun, and then the sound of assault rifles. That was sustained for about half an hour. Indicates to me again that militant factions are engaged in hand-to-hand fighting with Israeli ground troops in part of eastern Gaza as well -- Erin.
BURNETT: All right, Karl Penhaul, thank you. We're going to go back to Karl tonight in Gaza City where it is so dark because that power plant was hit by some sort of a missile. Let's go to Wolf Blitzer now in Jerusalem. You have been talking to officials there all day and what are they trying to say?
WOLF BLITZER, CNN HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": They're saying they're going to continue their operations. They want to try to destroy as much of Hamas' military infrastructure as possible. Not only the rockets and missiles, but also those tunnels that go from Gaza to Israel. They say they have a lot more work to do.
At the same time, they're not ruling out the possibility of a cease- fire. They want to see what the cease-fire entails. If it's the original Egyptian proposal, the Israeli say they would be open to it. They don't like the add-ons that have been attached to the original Egyptian proposal, which Israel accepted, Hamas rejected.
In the meantime, for the Israelis, priority number one, I must say on the battlefield, Erin, are those tunnels because the Israelis are so concerned Hamas infiltrators can get into Israel and kidnap or kill Israelis.
BLITZER (voice-over): Right near Israel's border with Gaza, a battle is under way, tunnels have been discovered, used by Hamas militants to launch attacks inside Israel. The Israeli military is determined to destroy them all. These tunnels are barely large enough to maneuver.
(on camera): The purpose of the tunnel was to go from Gaza into Israel. There's an Israeli at the exit here. The entrance is in Gaza. It's almost three kilometers long.
(voice-over): The tunnel threat has Israel on edge. The IDF says the sole purpose of these underground passages is to attack and kidnap Israelis.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's very easy to do it, to kill and nobody knows that there are people in the tunnel.
BLITZER: The Israeli military discovered this tunnel before it was finished. Lieutenant Colonel (inaudible) believes it took Hamas about two years to build.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A meters per day. They need a lot of time to do it.
BLITZER: The process of locating and destroying the tunnels also takes a long time. Israeli officials say they've destroyed at least 15 tunnels so far. Other tunnels are still being used. Israel said its troops killed five Palestinians as they left the tunnel in Gaza.
(on camera): Lt. Colonel, how long have you been working in this tunnel?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This tunnel, we are working for like a few weeks.
BLITZER: A few weeks already.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BLITZER (voice-over): Israeli intelligence officers used radar to track the development of these tunnels. But the IDF says it's an open question as to when this network of passages will be fully dismantled.
(on camera): How long will it take to destroy all the tunnels?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.
BLITZER: Nobody does.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nobody knows, yes.
BLITZER: Israeli intelligence says that they've already discovered 31 tunnels and the Israelis say they've destroyed 15 of them. Once again, they don't know how many more might still be out there. What really worries them is that infiltrators can get into Israel, maybe kidnap an Israeli soldier, bring that soldier back to Gaza and then try to do a trade.
Along the lines of what happens with an Israeli prisoner who spent five years in captivity in Hamas hands in Gaza. Eventually he was freed for a thousand Palestinian prisoners. That's what terrifies the Israelis right now.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Wolf Blitzer. And joining me now, Kenneth Adelman, a former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, along Peter Beinart, author of "The Crisis of Zionism" and also a columnist for "Haaretz."
Peter, let me start with you. It feels like talk of a cease-fire is becoming more and more meaningless. You have where Karl Penhaul is standing and it is pitch black because today a power plant was struck. Question as to who did it, but it's getting worse.
PETER BEINART, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: One thing is you don't have a broker that has credibility on both sides. You have Egypt, which is a sworn enemy of the Muslim Brotherhood, which Hamas doesn't trust, and then you have Qatar and Turkey, which are more allies of Hamas, which Israel doesn't trust.
But beyond that, you also have these very different demands. Israel wants the demilitarization of Gaza, which is understandable given the revelations of these tunnels, which are very frightening to Israelis. Palestinians in general, not just Hamas, but Palestinians in Gaza overwhelmingly want some relief from a blockade, some of which is not justified by security.
It's almost impossible to export from Gaza, which has had a terrible effect on the Gaza economy. The fishermen cannot go more than three miles off the coast. These are conflicting demands.
BURNETT: And Ken, you know, the United States hasn't seemed to be helping. Secretary John Kerry gets out in the middle of this, puts a cease-fire on the table. Unanimously, it gets rejected by the Israeli security cabinet, the United States ally. A columnist in one of the main newspapers lashed out, writing U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry ruined everything. Very senior officials in Jerusalem described the proposal Kerry put on the table as a strategic terrorist attack. These are incredibly harsh words -- Ken.
KENNETH ADELMAN, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: Well, Erin, the fact is -- those words are too harsh, to tell you the truth, for Secretary Kerry. I admire his determination in this. There's a little frantic nature about his time as secretary of state, however.
And he's a little bit like the white rabbit running from here to there and always late for some cease-fire somewhere around the world. The fact is, I don't think the cease-fire has been in Americans' interest over the past few days or even weeks. And I think it's absolutely perfect right now, perfect right now, that Israel accepts and Hamas rejects. So that's ideal.
If he brought that about, he really deserves kudos for that because I think the objective should be to eliminate the kind of leadership that the Gazans have had over the past, what is it, eight years since the Israeli withdrawal.
BEINART: I would love to see the tunnels destroyed and Gaza demilitarized. But to call a situation perfect and ideal when dozens of Gazan civilians including hundreds of children over the past few weeks are being killed every night. And this is seen around the world, and undermines American security interest, Ken, I just don't think you can call it perfect or ideal.
It would be wonderful to dismantle, to get rid of Hamas and Gaza. But to defeat Hamas politically, you need to show Palestinians that recognizing Israel's right to exist and supporting nonviolence actually gets them somewhere. And this Israeli government has shown when they recognize Israel time and time again, he gets further settlement growth. That makes Hamas stronger.
ADELMAN: Yes, I think that's a little harsh, Peter, and the fact is the Israelis were brave years ago. They removed all the Israelis. The Israeli settlements from that land in a unilateral move. And they said, let's have responsible leadership over there and the fact is, there's enormous resources, Peter, being given to building these tunnels to the military rockets. That's what the leadership is focused on.
They're not building schools. They're not building roads. They're not providing for their people. So I think that the government is a lousy government over there. And it's seen as lousy not only by the Israelis, but also by the Egyptians and Jordanians and moderate Arabs around the Middle East. So I think what the United States needs is a strategy. Ronald Reagan, which I just wrote a book --
BURNETT: All right.
ADELMAN: He had a strategy. He had points that he wanted to make to get to that strategy. And he had the courage to stick with the strategy. I don't see any of those three elements now -- Erin.
BURNETT: Peter, before we go. You talk about the inequality of the death toll. People say you can't trust Palestinians on the death toll either way it's incredibly unequal and hundreds of children have died. Today a cash of rockets found at another U.N. school. The U.N. found the string of routine inspection.
Now this school is currently closed. It's not being used as a shelter. But doesn't this bolster the whole Israeli point? That Hamas is hiding weapons in civilian areas, forcing Israel to choose between allowing the weapons to stay or allowing Hamas to use them to kill Israelis?
BEINART: Yes. And Israel is in a terribly difficult position in terms of how to respond militarily. But that's precisely why it has to recognize that a military response is not a substitute for a political response. If you want Palestinians to turn against Hamas, as ken and I both do, you have to show that the alternative path, the path that Mahmoud has taken, accepting the right to exist, supporting nonviolence gets you somewhere.
What terrifies me is so many Palestinians feel that Hamas' way, immoral, disruptive, repellent is more effective than his way because now people are talking about the blockade of Gaza. They weren't talking about it before the rockets. Israel has to return people who support Israel's right to exist into winners. This Israeli government, tragically, has done the opposite. BURNETT: All right. Thanks very much to both of you. Very interesting point, Peter. We weren't hearing about how the fishermen couldn't go off more than three miles to get their fish until this.
OUTFRONT next, President Obama announcing new sanctions against Vladimir Putin? Will that be enough to get his attention after the downing of MH17, a man who has met Vladimir Putin, who spent time with him and knows everything about him is OUTFRONT.
Plus, the deadliest of all outbreaks in history, a man from Minnesota dies from the virus after flying on a plane full of passengers.
And another stow away found on a wheel well of a plane, this time, a military plane on an American base.
BURNETT: Breaking news. The world punishes Putin as the violence escalates in Ukraine. President Obama today announcing the United States is slapping Moscow with new sanctions in retaliation for Putin's support of rebels in Ukraine. The fighting in Ukraine has been getting worse ever since Malaysia airlines flight 17 was shot out of the sky.
Nick Paton Walsh is among the first journalists to make his way to one of the towns under assault. And he is OUTFRONT live in Donetsk, Ukraine.
Nick, you were there, what did you see?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a key town between where I'm standing Donetsk and where the investigation mission is partially based and the crash site. It is called (INAUDIBLE). And it's been the reason why for the last three days now in a row, it seems the inspectors have had to turn around. Yesterday we heard the shelling from afar, saw the smoke. The inspectors saw it, too. They turned around today. We were actually in the town before the inspectors even decided to embark on trying and head towards the crash site.
We heard shelling ourselves. Militants are still in control of this town, (INAUDIBLE). But the Ukrainian army is still moving around it. It seems very heavy shelling. Absolutely clear the inspectors couldn't go through. And in fact their mission a few hours earlier aborted because of it.
The fear being, Erin, we're seeing so much activity, so many moves around that crash site, to try and retake the key towns that the Ukrainian government so badly wants to have control of. And we're also seeing heightened activity here in the main city of Donetsk. A million people live here but from one of the most traveling first time, Erin --
BURNETT: And it looks like we just lost Nick Paton Walsh there. The sanctions, though, that have been announced today, the question is how much of an impact will they have? So far, they have failed to stop the fighting and the flow of heavy weapons into Ukraine. In fact, as the sanctions have ramped up, so has Russia's support of the rebels with weapons, including the missile system believed to have struck down MH-17. The new sanctions are aimed at hitting Russia's economy where it will hurt the most -- energy, military and finance. Here's President Obama a couple of hours ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: If Russia continues on its current path, the cost on Russia will continue to grow. And today is a reminder that the United States means what it says.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: Joining me now, General Jim Jones who served as President Obama's national security adviser.
General, great to have you with us. So far sanctions on Russia have not changed president Putin's calculus. In fact, the opposite. Sanctions have gone up. As I say, he sent more weapons in.
Talked to a couple of experts in the financial world today. They say that these sanctions are going to start to hurt. But by the end of the summer, one expert tells me if the question will not be whether sanctions have a bite, but whether Russia's richest men, the oligarchs start talking directly to Putin. Will the sanctions change what Putin is doing?
GEM. JIM JONES, FORMER SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER EUROPE: I don't think I know the answer to that. We'll have to wait and see. But I think the biggest news that I heard today was the fact that the Europeans in particular the western Europeans are with us. And this is going to escalate things I think in terms of how Mr. Putin has to think about the future.
BURNETT: The new sanctions, General, of course, don't personally sanction president Putin. When you hear President Obama say we mean what we say, some people say well then why not sanction the wealthiest people in Russia, right? There are only a few of them. They are each worth $10, $20 billion or more. Why tippy-toe around that?
JONES: Well, we may get there incrementally, but certainly the emphasis on the capital markets on energy and on defense are significant sectors that will be felt and will have an effect. So beyond that, though, I think that there's a strategic issue here. Particularly, where energy is concerned. Because Mr. Putin figured out back in 2006 that he could control the temperatures in many of the European households.
JONES: And that would be a weapon of sorts that he could use whenever he wants to. I think we now have a weapon in our arsenal, our own energy progress since then, really puts us in a position where in the long term, strategically I think we can help our European friends wean themselves off Russia and energy. BURNETT: And you. I believe, general, correct me if I'm wrong. But I
think you were at the first meeting when President Obama met Vladimir Putin, right?
BURNETT: All right. So tell me what happened then? What is your impression of Vladimir Putin?
JONES: Well, what happened was a breakfast meeting at Mr. Putin's outside of Moscow, this was during the presidential visit. And so, the primary (INAUDIBLE) it was President Medvedev, and these pictures that you are seeing now are representative of what happened.
But we sat down at breakfast, and we engaged in light conversation, and I think President Obama said something about Russian-American relations. And Mr. Putin responded by say well, in order to understand Russian-American relations we have to go back to 1945.
And for the next hour and a half, he delivered a rather chilling view of history in which, he revealed himself, frankly, as someone who grew up in the cold war, considers the demise of the Warsaw pact as one of the worst things to happen on the planet. That NATO was the arch enemy. He resented the fact that NATO expanded to include former members of the Warsaw pact. And he believed that the United States treated Russia shabbily in their needs.
So this is something that is in his core. And of course, we know his background in the KGB. So throw that all together and you have someone who has a very unusual view of history, and as a result, it's colored the relationship that we currently have.
BURNETT: And General Jim Jones, thank you very much.
JONES: Most welcome.
BURNETT: And I want to bring in Ben Judah. He's spent the past three years researching Vladimir Putin and wrote the recent Newsweek article, "Behind the scene in Putin's court: the private habits of a later day dictator."
Ben, a word you use very carefully with all the research that you did for this article, one of the things was to say I can tell whether Vladimir Putin is a dictator by how he spends his day. How much control he has. Who else makes decision or whether it's only him. And in all of this research you found out some fascinating things.
So you write about Vladimir Putin's day. He wakes up late. Eats breakfast around noon. Swims for a couple of hours. Goes to the gym. Finally starts reading in the mid afternoon. This is a pretty interesting description. Because people may hear this and say well, this is a lazy guy who kind of let other people do things for him. But is that the case?
BEN JUDAH, AUTHOR, BEHIND THE SCENES IN PUTIN'S COURT: Well, Putin rules in a way that leaders did before the internet. He doesn't use the internet. When Putin first came to the great offices of state around the millennium, (INAUDIBLE) didn't have an email account to communicate with his stuff in London, and neither did the U.S. presidents. Putin is the last of the analog and non-digital rulers still in power. So that's all frozen there.
Putin, he knows that Obama spends the evening like scanning the news, reading some of the tweets. He knows that David Cameron is obsessed about what's on your channel or what's on the BBC, and he thinks these guys are very much mistaken. He thinks the job of the ruler of the Russian federation is to make strategic choice. He doesn't care what people are tweeting. He doesn't care what people are facebooking. He wants to make a decision in his own head, alone. A lot of his thinking takes place in the pool.
BURNETT: In the pool. And when I read your reporting that he wakes up late and eats breakfast around noon. Some people may say, well, does that mean he's a big drinker. But the answer to that is, I think, pretty definitive.
JUDAH: People often ask me that. How similar is the reign of Vladimir Putin and the Kremlin of Vladimir Putin to that of Stalin? Stalin also woke up late. Stalin also would shuttle miserably between the Kremlin and his statue outside Moscow.
But Stalin had drunken dinner parties. Stalin would make all of his fury animals that rules with him and drink so much they would often soil themselves. He would make them stand up on the tables and dance Jewish songs or Muslim songs to humiliate them, if they were from those religions.
But Putin drinking late into the night? No. Putin is not a drinker. Putin is not a political leader, bringing into the Kremlin a whole series of girls because that's what he likes. He's not a very sexual person in that way.
BURNETT: So what does he spend the night doing? I mean, you write there, no stories of extravagance, only loneliness. You mention the lack of a family life. That he's divorced. That the daughters don't live in Russia. What does he do at night? You mean, you talk about the rumors, right? There is a rumor out there that he has a love child with a Russian gymnast.
JUDAH: There are rumors you hear about photographers or gymnasts or women that kind of come to him at night. There's some of that hollow talk to the stories. There's something that doesn't quite sound right about them. Putin works at night. Putin receives people at night. He works late. He thinks best late at night. And other people have to get used to that.
BURNETT: All right, thank you very much, Ben. Pretty fascinating look inside a man the world is fascinated by.
And still OUTFRONT, officials on high alert after an American infected with the deadly Ebola virus was able to board a flight. Is a U.S. outbreak just a plane ride away?
And unnecessary risk, why are commercial planes still flying over war zones? They're doing it right now. We're going to show you.
BURNETT: Breaking news on the deadliest Ebola outbreak on record. Tonight, we are learning that a doctor known for his leading role in treating Ebola in Africa has died from the virus. So far, it has claimed nearly 700 lives.
And the death rate is horrific in this virus. Ebola kills 90 percent of those infected. Authorities worry many others could be infected and not even be aware of it yet.
Two Americans have tested positive for the virus after treating Ebola patients. We are monitoring their progress. Both of them alive and fighting tonight.
And now, officials on alert after an American boarded a flight last week not knowing he had Ebola. He died just days later.
So, is Ebola truly just a plane ride away from the United States?
Jean Casarez is OUTFRONT.
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Naturalized U.S. citizen Patrick Sawyer was hoping to fly home next week to celebrate his daughters' birthdays. The Ebola virus changed everything.
DECONTEE SAWYER, PATRICK SAWYER'S WIDOW: With Patrick's death, it's hit our front door because he was well known in the community. Like everyone knew him. So, everyone feels like they've lost their best friend or their brother.
CASAREZ: His wife Decontee and their three children now left mourning and wondering how it could happen.
After visiting his infected sister, Sawyer flew from Liberia to Nigeria and became violently ill.
PAUL GARWOOD, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: He departed on the plane with no symptoms. And he reported being symptomatic on arrival. So, on -- I understand he was vomiting, and he turned themselves over. Basically, he made it known he wasn't feeling well.
CASAREZ: Sawyer was quarantined upon landing and died just five days later. But what about all the passengers and the crew on Sawyer's plane?
Ebola does not spread through the air, making it difficult, but not impossible to catch.
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The problem is we all have breaks in our hands, even if you don't see them, looking at your hands right now, you may not see open wounds. We all have them. And even if a small amount of body fluids that's infected with Ebola gets on your hand, at that point, it's kind of too late.
CASAREZ: ASKY Airlines, which flies in the region, has now voluntarily instituted airport medical screening, as well as passenger education.
GUPTA: The real key is to make sure someone who has any symptoms at all isn't getting on a plane, and that's a challenging thing to do.
CASAREZ: The CDC says it is very unlikely Ebola could spread to others on a plane, however --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People do travel between West Africa and the U.S. CDC needs to be prepared for the very remote possibility that one of those travelers could get Ebola and return to the U.S. while sick.
CASAREZ: At this point, the Ebola infection is confined to the African continent, with more than 670 confirmed and suspected deaths. Two American health care workers are currently fighting the infection.
CASAREZ: And the CDC is actively trying to educate American and world doctors to look for the symptoms, but beyond that, find out where this person has traveled from. If you believe they have Ebola, immediately quarantine them.
But here's the thing -- with Mr. Sawyer, he started exhibiting the symptoms during the flight, and that's when you become contagious. And so, now, the airline is actually contacting all the fellow passengers to be on alert for the next 21 days.
BURNETT: I mean, it's terrifying.
I want to bring in now, Dr. Ian Lipkin into this conversation. I know you specialize in infectious diseases. Also, Dr. Lipkin was a consultant for the movie "Contagion."
You just obviously saw this report. I know you know a lot about Ebola. What is your reaction when you hear that this man, Patrick Sawyer, he gets on a plane. He doesn't know he's ill. He starts to feel very, very sick. It's too late at that point.
When you hear that that could happen -- someone get on a plane and come to the U.S., what does this say to you?
DR. W. IAN LIPKIN, NORTHEAST BIODEFENSE CENTER: Well, he was infected before he got onto the plane.
LIPKIN: I don't think there's any question about that.
LIPKIN: And it is true that one can harbor mild symptoms that can be difficult to sort out. And it will be difficult to figure out who is ill before they get on the plane.
But this sort of spread that we've seen within Africa would not occur in the United States or in Europe, for example, because the major problem there is that people who are infected have not been seeking medical attention, have not been quarantined, have not been isolated. So, it is true someone could arrive in the United States, be infected, but it would either stop there probably, or maybe one or two people deeper.
So, it is a concern. It is something we need to monitor. As you know, we have no vaccine that's deployed yet.
BURNETT: And there's no cure.
LIPKIN: And we have no cure for it. All we have is supportive care.
BURNETT: I mean, Jean, people hear Dr. Lipkin say it could go one or two people deeper when you think about coming in to some countries, you come into China, you walk to the airport, they're taking your temperature, so they could pick up if this person has a fever. It doesn't happen in this country.
So, what is the CDC doing?
CASAREZ: Well, they're asking health care workers and I think they're talking with airlines. But it's voluntary. There are no American airlines that we know at this point that are screening people. They're starting to do that in Africa right now.
But the fact that it's contractible, if that's a correct through bodily fluids. This man on the plane started vomiting and having diarrhea. So think of the body fluids right there. And Patrick Sawyer was just about to fly home to Minnesota to be with his family and three children. Can you imagine the people that would infect?
BURNETT: I mean, that is the fear. You heard Sanjay saying you could look at your hands and you don't realize how many tiny little cuts we may have. If someone throws up next to you on a plane and it splatters and hits your hand and gets on a cut, is that something to be concerned about at all?
LIPKIN: It is a concern. But honestly, if someone threw up on you on a plane, you would be concerned anyway. This is not an airborne disease.
BURNETT: Right, bodily fluids.
LIPKIN: So, it's not like influenza. It's not like SARS. It's not like MERS. We are very concerned about it, yes. But I think it's going to be easier to contain Ebola, at least in the developed world, than it would be if we had something that was airborne. And I would not be at all surprised if at some point, at least in certain airports, people do begin to screen for temperature.
BURNETT: And they would start doing that. That would seem to be important. LIPKIN: This is something we can do. You're not going to use the
tests for Ebola, but you're not going to use them for every individual who gets on board a plane. That would be impossible.
BURNETT: No, of course not. Of course not. And once you're able to test it. It's too late.
CASAREZ: And the symptoms can be other things.
LIPKIN: Early in the course of disease, it looks like any other common fibril illness. You don't feel well. You've got muscle aches. Maybe you've got a sore throat, something like this. But there's nothing specific about Ebola per se in the early phases of disease.
CASAREZ: But here's the thing, Patrick Sawyer, who was a naturalized American citizen, his sister had it. So, it appears as though that is how he may have, with body fluids, have contracted himself.
The knowledge, the education of people to not be around someone that has it.
All right. Well, thanks very much to both of you. Appreciate it.
And OUTFRONT next, passengers at risk. Are airlines doing enough to avoid the war zones, like the one where Malaysia Flight 17 was shut down?
And a potential breach of security. A stowaway found in the wheel well of a U.S. Air Force plane on a U.S. base. How did it happen?
BURNETT: Today, an urgent meeting about the risk of planes being shot out of the sky. The International Civil Aviation Organization met to address the lapse in security that likely led to the downing of MH17. They agreed that changes need to be made. But hundreds of planes still fly over combat zones every moment.
OUTFRONT tonight, our aviation correspondent Richard Quest.
This is pretty incredible because let's just start with the no-fly zone. The FAA, and I'm going to mention the FAA, and that's only the United States, nobody else.
BURNETT: These are no-fly zones around the world, right?
QUEST: These are no-fly zones in red, and restricted zones in yellow, that -- where it's recommended that you avoid. And what ICAO, IATA, and this alphabet soup of organizations said today basically is, there needs to be a task force to examine the procedures, the information sharing, that deals with aircraft and safety.
BURNETT: Right, because this is -- I mean, obviously, now this is red. That used to be yellow and had planes flying over it, Ukraine.
BURNETT: You had weather related plane crash over Mali last week. But Mali is on that list, and Air Algeria was flying over it. So, plenty of airlines are flying over this zones all the time.
QUEST: Absolutely. Keep, OK, let's look at the actual routes that they are taking.
BURNETT: OK. These are -- so, everyone, these are -- yes.
QUEST: These are the major areas -- Libya, Iraq, Syria, Iran, Afghanistan and Ukraine.
Now, if we then move this forward, you will see, hit it again, flight paths, clear that. I push next. And then you will see perfectly exactly what we're talking about.
Look at Iraq. Look at all the planes still flying over. Why? Because the air routes are open. Emirates said they would stop flying over it.
BURENTT: Emirates, which is the Dubai-based airline.
QUEST: But they've got to go down this way to get to the headquarters around here.
Now if you then take a look at what's going over other parts of the Middle East, now everybody is avoiding the black sea area and eastern Ukraine, but that you have still got to get your aircraft, somehow you've still got to fly the plane over somewhere. I mean if you're here and you want to get over there, well that's a very long way around. You can't really go around there. So, at some point, there has to be a judgment. And that's where the regulators come in.
At some point, there has to be a judgment that it's safe to go that way or it's safe to go that way or that way, and that's the big issue.
BURNETT: Now, here's the question I have. Let's say you change all these routes, right? This is going to give me a color --
QUEST: You have a color.
BURNETT: So, I'm going to circle these areas here. These are all the planes going down to the Middle East, right? By the way, just to make it clear to everybody, Dubai is the second or third busiest airport --
QUEST: It's becoming the largest airport. Emirates, number of seats and number of seats bought.
(CROSSTALK) BURNETT: This is highly relevant to millions and millions of people who are going to this airport going east or going west.
So, here's my question, right? You have this area you can't go, how quickly can you move it?
QUEST: Well, that's the problem. Emirates said yesterday they were going to start diverting the flight. But they made it clear it's going to take some time to reroute the flight, because which way you go? Well, if you go further west, you're over Syria. Then, of course, you got the whole issue of Israel and you got Lebanon. Go this way, you're into Iran. It's very difficult.
And from the United States, think about it, you have Emirates, Qatar, they're all introducing new routes.
BURNETT: Oh, you can go from Seattle. You can go from Houston. You can go from Dallas, Chicago, New York, all of them now, are crucial hubs for this region.
QUEST: This is the aviation hub of the world. It's the new aviation hub of the world. And how you get there is what they now have to deal with, how to fly safely across these regions.
BURNETT: It is, it is incredible. And as you point out, it is the hub of the world. It's relevant to everyone.
Richard Quest, thank you very much.
And still to come, U.S. officials investigating a massive breach of security after the body of a young stowaway was found inside a U.S. Air Force plane. How did he get there?
BURNETT: And now, let's check in with Anderson with a look on what's coming up on "AC360".
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Hey, Erin. Yes. We'll have more on the breaking news on the program. Inspectors make an ugly discovery of missiles being hidden out of school in Gaza. There's already international condemnation, but the big question tonight, will there be retaliation from Israel? Some of the heaviest bombings of the three-week conflict of the last 24 hours. Our Karl Penhaul was there. We'll talk to him about what he has been seeing.
And I'll talk to Mark Regev, chief spokesman for Israel's prime minister and ask if demilitarizing Gaza would require another occupation. I'm also joined by former U.S. envoy to the Middle East, George Mitchell, later in a special two-hour edition of "360." I hope you join us for that.
Also tonight, what we know about three Israeli teens found dead that started this conflict. There are two different versions of what happened and who did it. Randi Kaye has that story.
And new sanctions being placed on Russia by the United States and Europe. Our panel weighs in, Erin.
BURNETT: All right. Thanks, Anderson. We'll see you in just a few minutes for that special edition.
Just three months ago a teenager hitched a ride to Hawaii by hiding in the landing gear of a passenger jet. Remarkably, he lived to tell about it. That was not the case, though, for a stowaway found in a wheel well of a U.S. military plane.
Tom Foreman is in Washington with this story.
TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the Air Force C130 J landed at Ramstein Air Force in Germany, the ground crew discovered a terrible surprise.
REAR ADM. JOHN KIRBY, PENTAGON PRESS SECRETARY: The body of an apparent stowaway was found trapped in a compartment above the aircraft's rear landing gear. The deceased was an adolescent black male possibly of African origin. At this point, it is unknown when or where the deceased entered the landing gear wheel well.
FOREMAN: Even the young man's nationality is a mystery, heightening concerns about the serious security breach even further. Officials say the plane left on July 19th for an eight-day mission visiting Italy, Senegal, Mali, Chad and Tunisia, although they wouldn't say in which order. This much is known, military flights in some parts of Africa are routinely exposed to far less than ideal security.
This video was shot when a U.S. plane made an emergency landing in Uganda, just last week and was swarmed by local folks. The latest incident is eerily similar to one in which a Somali American teenager survived after stowing away in the wheel well of a commercial plane that flew from California to Hawaii.
And complicating the latest incident even further, the outbreak of deadly Ebola that is ravaging some African communities, again raising concerns about security.
KIRBY: Laboratory results taken from samples in the body confirmed negative test results for communicable diseases and the cause of death, as well as the other circumstances surrounding this incident remains under investigation.
BURNETT: Under investigation, Tom, still shocking to a lot people. You're talking about an Air Force plane, you're talking about a U.S. base. This is supposed to be the most secure places in the country. Did the pilots notice anything wrong with the aircraft?
FOREMAN: No, no, military officials say his presence did not make any difference to the plane's handling and it is worth noting that the body was not even found in the basic post-flight inspection but only in a more thorough inspection by maintenance crews later on. So, even as military officials acre knowledge the tragedy of this young life lost they are focusing very hard on these issues of security and the questions of where did he come from, where was he going, and how come no one caught him before he was aboard a U.S. military plane? Erin?
BURNETT: That's a terrifying question. Thank you, Tom.
And we'll be right back.
BURNETT: Tomorrow OUTFRONT, solving the mystery of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. Now, earlier, we were talking about investigators in Ukraine and how they've been unable to get to the crash site. This is the second day in a row because of heavy fighting. The evidence is there, to talk about being tampered with. It's sitting in the middle of a battlefield.
We know that some of the key evidence is possibly at a chicken farm nearby that investigators have not even been able to visit even once. How difficult will it be for them to uncover what caused the crash? We sent our David Mattingly to a crash investigation lab to find out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATTINGLY: What happens if a bomb goes off right in the middle of a crash site like this?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's going to destroy an awful lot of evidence. It's going to move stuff around. Depending on the size of the bomb, you may destroy everything we've got.
MATTINGLY: You sound like you're resigned to the idea you're not going to get all the answers you would like to see from the crash site?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Personally, I don't think we're going to.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BURNETT: And, of course, the big risk is given the violence that's been escalating near the crash site, that some sort of a bomb or missile could hit the crash site. What kind of information would they be able to get? That is the crucial information. We're going to have David's entire report OUTFRONT from that crash scene tomorrow at 7:00 Eastern.
We look forward to seeing you then. In the meantime, have a good day. Thanks for joining us. We'll see you again tomorrow night.
Special two-hour edition of "AC360" starts right now.