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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Gaza Bombardment; Israeli Support for Campaign; American Dies From Ebola Virus; CDC: Likelihood of Ebola in U.S. Very Low

Aired July 30, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: A four-hour conditional cease-fire set to expire right now in Gaza, though it may never really have started. Israel authorized the humanitarian window but did not let up on air strikes and Hamas kept the rockets firing. All this as Gaza's infrastructure continues to collapse.

Also, the worst Ebola epidemic in history claims its first American victim. The virus is still sweeping West Africa and may make its way here to the U.S., though our experts say it is likely (ph) to spread widely here. We dig deeply into this deadly disease this hour on CNN.

And, land mines now allegedly standing between international experts and the wreckage of Malaysia Flight 17. Ukraine claims terrorists laid the lethal traps. Again, making forensic work at the site impossible.

Hello, everyone, I'm Jim Sciutto, in today for Ashleigh Banfield. It is Wednesday, July 30th. And welcome to LEGAL VIEW. Let me take a moment to welcome our viewers in the United States and around the world today.

A temporary lull shattered as multiple explosions shake Gaza. Israel announced a four-hour cease-fire for humanitarian reasons, but Hamas continued to fire rockets from Gaza into Israel, while Israel did not let up on its punishing bombardment of Gaza. Our John Vause was reporting live when he was startled by a series of unrelenting blasts. It happened just over an hour ago live on television. Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: OK, let's start with that - (EXPLOSIONS) -- it's over, as you can tell. What we have right now is smoke, which is coming from an earlier air strike in downtown Gaza City. That's a gas station, a petrol station, which was hit according to Palestinian officials. What that other target was hit, at this point, we don't know. But clearly that humanitarian window is now closed. It was meant to be open for another hour and a half. But obviously the Israelis said it did come with a provision that if Hamas continued to fire those rockets, if Israeli troops were, in fact, in danger in any way, then they would respond. As you can tell, they are now responding to that -- to those Hamas rockets which, to be fair, (INAUDIBLE), had continued to fire from Gaza.

(EXPLOSIONS) VAUSE: Just over here, David (ph). This building just over here, which has just been hit. OK. People are now scattering beneath in the streets below.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you need to go, John?

VAUSE: No, we're OK. We're all good. But we're just trying to work out exactly what's happening here right now. OK. Everyone's taking cover right now. OK. So that was pretty close. That's a building not far from our location here, obviously. We believe that was an Israeli air strike.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have they been this close to your building before? Have they been that close in Gaza City before?

VAUSE: That's pretty much the closest they've got to us so far. That was, in fact, not a strike, that was what they call a knock on the roof, which means that there could be an air strike on its way. Usually, as we know, they give a knock on the roof, which means that someone in that building has a matter of minutes, maybe, in fact, five minutes. I might just put on a flak jacket here while you look at this. Basically people inside that building now have maybe just a few minutes to get out because that could be hit by an Israeli air strike. So we're just going to take some protection (INAUDIBLE) here, (INAUDIBLE), because we are quite close.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right, no worries, you go when you need to go, obviously.

VAUSE: Yes, sure. So - so, (INAUDIBLE), that basically means that what we're waiting for now is there could be an Israeli air strike coming. Doesn't always mean that's the case, but it usually does.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All right. If you don't mind adjusting your microphone there as you put your jacket on.

VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE). OK. OK, just go over there and (INAUDIBLE). OK.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. We're just giving John a break for a moment while he adjusts his microphone. We have just heard what is known locally (ph) as the knock on the roof and that is when the Israelis let know a particular house, building, area that a missile is about to strike and that means that they have minutes presumably to leave the vicinity, to leave their homes. And this has come, marking clearly the end of a humanitarian cease-fire, which had gone into effect for four hours. It was less than an hour and a half left in that cease-fire. As John had been reporting, Hamas rockets were continuing to fire from Israel -- or from Gaza into Israel --

VAUSE: (INAUDIBLE) right now. Phanula (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

VAUSE: Phanula, I think we're OK right now. We just heard another explosion just to the south of us as well. So what has happened right now is that we've had this humanitarian pause by the Israelis. They did warn that the air strikes would resume should Hamas continue to fire those rockets. Those rockets have continued to be fired from Gaza. We have seen it. There have been sirens over the city of Ashkelon (ph) just to the north of here. And now we've had a knock on the roof of this building. There has been another explosion just to the south of us, not far away. We've had this air strike in the downtown part of Gaza where you can see the flames still going up in the distance.

So right now, Phanula, this has to be said, it has also been a deadly day here in Gaza City. Up until the pause that was announced by Israel at 3:00 p.m. local time, as many as 73 Palestinians have been killed since midnight. So it has been deadly up until that pause. And now those operations are continuing once again.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Just riveting to watch, a ground level view of Gaza under this air bombardment. Our own John Vause joins us now live from Gaza.

John, it was really the humanitarian window that never was to some degree. Who violated this cease-fire? Because a short time ago we had the spokesman for the Israeli government say that it was Israel who stopped the cease-fire. I want to just, before I come to your question, play this comment from him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: The trouble is Hamas rejected it and then continued to shoot. And a cease-fire means not just Israel's cease-fire. A cease-fire means that Hamas must cease- fire too. And if rockets continue to be shot at our cities and so forth, of course that means the cease-fire has become null and void. And so we have restarted operations. But the reason that we didn't last the full four hours was Hamas who said openly and publicly, we reject this cease-fire. That's a pity. We would have preferred it to be the full four hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: So, John, listening to that and you're on the ground, does that mesh with what you've seen there, that Israel stopped firing but Hamas did not live up to its side of the bargain?

VAUSE: Yes, look, on one level, Mark Regev is absolutely correct, the Israelis stopped their bombardment, their military offensive on Gaza. And it was a unilateral decision because the Israelis came out, they said they would open up this humanitarian window. Hamas pretty much immediately said, this is a stunt, this is a media stunt, we're not buying it, we're not going to hold our fire because you, the Israelis, continue to have troops inside Gaza continuing to search and look for the tunnel network and then blowing it up. So as far as Hamas is concerned, that violated a cease-fire. It wasn't really a cease-fire to them.

And what we've seen from Hamas, time and time again, whenever these cease-fires are proposed by the Israelis, they take this incredibly hard line. They say, unless a pause in fighting is accompanied by a lifting of what they call the siege of Gaza, then they will continue to fire rockets. And they did. According to the IDF, if that brief two and a half hour period when the Israelis did hold their fire, Hamas fired 26 rockets, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Incredible. And, John, just for our viewers at home, I mean clearly both sides digging in and, in effect, preparing their populations for a longer battle here.

But one other thing that's continued, as these cease-fires continue to crumble, is that Palestinian civilians are being killed by what appear to be Israeli air strikes. For the second time this month, a U.N. school, in fact, in Gaza, come under attack. In fact, just to remind viewers, these are schools where many civilians are taking shelter in this air strike.

I want to read now a statement from the U.N. undersecretary-general for humanitarian affairs. She said the following this morning. That's Valerie Amos. "I am alarmed at the intensity of the violence in Gaza after a brief humanitarian cease-fire." Today, another U.N. school serving as a shelter has been hit in what she calls a gross violation of international law. What can you tell us, John, about what you've seen on the ground there when these schools, when these shelters get hit by either aerial bombardment or artillery, how does that happen, in light of the steps that Israel says it takes to prevent civilian casualties?

VAUSE: Look, I think everybody wants to know exactly how it is that a school could be hit by artillery rounds or a power plant, which the Israelis say wasn't on their target list, was, in fact, hit, a number of occasions, at least according to the Palestinians. This is infrastructure, this is civilian infrastructure, which should not be a target. The Israelis again say that they're not responsible for it. At least they say it wasn't on their target list and they're investigating that.

They're not investigating a number of incidents which have happened. There was an incident at another U.N. school just last week. And now we have this latest incident where the U.N. says they are absolutely convinced this school was hit by three artillery rounds early in the morning just around the same time as morning prayers. They say that about 20 people were killed.

But what the U.N. is -- has told us is that not only did -- according to them, the Israelis know that this school was being used as a shelter for more than 3,000 people who had left their homes either because they'd been destroyed or they'd received leaflets telling them to get out or they were simply just worried that their house was going to be destroyed, but they had given the IDF, the Israel Defense Force, the coordinates for that school 17 times.

Now, Israel has had a preliminary investigation. They say they'll have a much bigger investigation, which is ongoing right now. The early results from that investigation, according to Israel, is that they say their troops in that area came under mortar fire from militants who are firing from the vicinity of the school and they fired back and now we have 20 people dead, at least 20 people dead from that school, and more than 120 wounded, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes, this is the thing. The civilians really on both sides, you know, suffering the most through this kind of conflict.

I want to ask you because just to remind our viewers, Gaza is a small place. You're never really far away from any of these targets, yourself included. We saw that happen I mean in that riveting video that we shared with our viewers earlier. Are you and your team safe? I mean how close are the strikes coming to where you are and what confidence do you have that you won't be caught up in a strike that goes awry?

VAUSE: Right. Look, the IDF knows where we are. So hopefully, you know, we will be OK. There are a number of, we hope, safe areas inside Gaza. But, you're right, this is a very densely packed part of the world. There's not a lot of real estate around here. And this is what happens when the IDF drops those leaflets and tells people that it's time to get out because that area is about to be hit.

They really don't have a lot of places to go. And that school that got hit earlier today was meant to be one of those safe places. So this is what the Palestinians are saying right now, where do they go, where is safe in Gaza? And the answer to that is, there just isn't a lot of safe places right now.

This is a very, very crowded piece of the world. These refugee camps especially. The Beach (ph) camp, the Shati (ph) refugee camp, Jabalia (ph), where some of these attack have taken place, these are tiny little houses and very narrow winding streets where many members of one family, or, you know, dozens of families, you know, will be crowded into a very compact space. And so if there is a strike there, if there is some kind of shelling or artillery, you will hit a lot of people.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, you're doing a great service on the ground there. For your sake, for your wife's sake, for our sake, please keep safe for us, keep your jacket on, and we look forward to talking to you again.

We want to go now to the Israeli side of the border, where there is massive support for the military's offensive against Hamas. A new poll released this week by "The Jerusalem Post" shows that nearly 87 percent of Jewish Israelis favor what's called "Operation Protective Edge" in Gaza. They say they cannot accept a cease-fire as long as Hamas continues to fire those rockets into Israel. Our own Sara Sidner joins us now by phone from the Israeli-Gaza border on the Israeli side.

So, Sara, when you speak to Israelis there, do you sense any letting up of that public support for this operation, even as they see images, as we've been sharing with our viewers, of some of these attacks on school and that explosion that John Vause just witnessed himself? Any erosion of that support? SARA SIDNER, CNN CORRESPONDENT (via telephone): No. In fact, it is

actually growing stronger. There's been a latest poll that puts it all the way up to 95 percent. And to make a distinction, you know, Israeli Jews are the ones that are really behind this. If you talk about Palestinians with Israeli citizenships, who are often called Israeli Arabs, of course that is much, much lower. They basically say this has to stop, we cannot watch this or do this to our people in Gaza.

But, overall, if you look at, you know, the mass of the voting population, 80 percent of the voting population, a huge number of support. And they're not just supporting this offensive. What they really want is the end of Hamas. Stopping Hamas, keeping them from ever being able to fire into Israel again. A very difficult thing to do.

As you know, Jim, we were able to talk to the former head of Mossad and he talked about how hard that would be. He said that, you know, if that's really what they want, to completely take out Hamas, that could take years and it could take a reoccupation of Gaza. He says he's not sure the public realizes what it is they're asking, but he said himself that there was no idea until they got boots on the ground how many tunnels there actually were, bringing in things such as rockets into Gaza. And so even he himself said at first he didn't support a ground offensive until he saw the city of tunnels that he was unaware existed underneath Gaza and coming up in some places into Israel. So a real ground swell of support from Israeli Jews.

Jim.

SCIUTTO: That's even as the death toll on the Israeli side has been higher than previous operations, some two dozen soldiers, Israeli soldiers, killed so far.

Thanks very much, Sara Sidner.

The Ebola epidemic, it's the deadliest Ebola outbreak ever. An American has died of the disease after catching it in Liberia, more on his story and ways being done to prevent the illness from spreading further, including here in the U.S.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: So far the largest and deadliest outbreak of Ebola virus on record has not reached the U.S. but our Dr. Gupta says it may be just a matter of time.

As we speak, two American aide workers are being treated for Ebola in Africa. They're in serious condition but are said to be slightly improved from yesterday.

You may also have heard of an American who died of Ebola last week. He was making his way to Minnesota but fell ill before he could leave Nigeria.

Those cases have driven home an epidemic that has sickened more than 1,200 people in the West African nations of Guinea, Sierra Leone, and Liberia since this March. As of last week, 672 of those patients have died.

A U.S. official tells CNN that President Obama is being briefed on the outbreak's spread, and U.S. health care providers are being urged to prepare for the possibility that they might see cases here.

We'll have much more on all of this throughout the hour, but first we want to talk to you about the death of a man who was one plane ride away from his family, friends and colleagues here in the U.S.

Here's CNN's Jean Casarez.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Naturalized U.S. citizen Patrick Sawyer was hoping to fly home to Minnesota next month to celebrate his daughter's birthdays. The Ebola virus changed everything.

DECONTEE SAWYER, PATRICK SAWYER'S WIDOW: With Patrick's death, it's hit our front door because he was well known in the community. Like, everyone knew him, so everyone feels like they've lost, like, their best friend or their brother.

CASAREZ: His wife Decontee and their three children now left mourning and wondering how it could happen.

After visiting his infected sister, Sawyer flew from Liberia to Nigeria and became violently ill.

PAUL GARWOOD, WORLD HEALTH ORGANIZATION: He departed on the plane initially with no symptoms. He reported being symptomatic on arrival.

So on -- understand he was vomiting, and he then turned himself over basically, made it known that he wasn't feeling well.

CASAREZ: Sawyer was quarantined upon landing and died just five days later. But what about all the passengers and the crew on Sawyer's plane?

Ebola does not spread through the air, making it difficult, but not impossible, to catch.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: The problem is that we all have breaks in our hands, even if you don't see it. Looking at your hands right now, you may not see any open wounds. We all have them.

And even if a small amount of any of these bodily fluids that's infected with Ebola gets on your hand, at that point, it's kind of too late.

CASAREZ: Asky airlines, which flies in the region, has now voluntarily instituted airport medical screening as well as passenger education.

GUPTA: The real key is to make sure that someone who has any symptoms at all isn't getting on a plane. And that's a challenging thing to do.

CASAREZ: The CDC says it is very unlikely Ebola could spread to others on a plane. However --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because people do travel between West Africa and the U.S., CDC needs to be prepared for the very remote possibility that one of those travelers could get Ebola and return to the U.S. while sick.

CASAREZ: At this point, the Ebola infection is confined to the African continent with more than 670 confirmed and suspected deaths. Two American health care workers are currently fighting the infection.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: Thanks to our Jean Casarez.

We're joined now by Dr. Anthony Fauci. He's head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases at the National Institute of Health, also a long history in handling the outbreak of the aids virus.

Dr. Fauci, thanks very much for taking the time today.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF HEALTH: Good to be with you.

SCIUTTO: I want to start -- because the CDC told reporters yesterday, and I'm going to quote from their statement, quote, "The likelihood of this outbreak spreading outside of West Africa is very low."

We have talked to other experts, our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta among them, who spent time in these countries where the outbreak began, and he says the scenarios are actually, you know, not likely they're very credible for how it might hop to the U.S. on a plane.

Just knowing your experience, what is your degree of concern that we will see Ebola cases here in the United States?

FAUCI: Well, you always have to be vigilant and concerned to make sure that if we are faced with that scenario where someone does get on a plane from West Africa to the United States, that the person is recognized.

And when the CDC said, correctly, that it is extremely unlikely that there will be an outbreak, for example, in the United States, because what's happening in West Africa now is that it's kind of a phenomenon where people are getting infected from one to another because of a breakdown of the kinds of personal protective equipment that is absolutely essential to follow protocol to prevent the spread.

Because this virus is spread by direct contact, as was mentioned, with bodily fluid, vomit, feces, urine, blood, particularly in people who are far advanced in their disease.

And when you have a proper health structure to be able to handle that, certainly it is conceivable that a patient might come and be in the United States, but if handled properly, there's an extremely, extremely unlikely that there will be, quote, an outbreak. And that's what the CDC was referring to. Also, alerting physicians in the United States that if you get someone who comes from West Africa, to make sure you do a travel history, if they come in with those kinds of symptoms.

SCIUTTO: That's a key point you make, because in a developed country, even if someone -- say -- took a plane -- sorry to our viewers. We lost Dr. Anthony Fauci there. We'll make an attempt to get him back, great as always to have his expertise on this.

And, just to remind our viewers, we're also going to be speaking to our own Dr. Sanjay Gupta as well.

Also ahead, the struggle to investigate the shoot down of a passenger plane in Ukraine. Why are investigators still being kept away from the wreckage nearly two weeks after it went down?

I'm going to talk with America's ambassador to a group that is desperately trying to get to that crash site, right after this quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: In eastern Ukraine, international crash investigators again were not able to get close today to the wreckage of Malaysia Airlines Flight 17. The reason, it's simply not safe.

Ukrainian security officials say separatist rebels have planted land mines around the crash site, which experts say likely still holds bodies of passengers yet to be collected, nearly two weeks since this crash.

Today marks four straight days that investigators have stayed away from the wreckage. In fact, the crash team from the Netherlands has yet to see the debris up close once. A reminder that most of those would died when the airliner was shot down were Dutch.

Australia also has a crash team there, and the FBI and NTSB are involved, as well as observers from the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe, or the OSCE.

I'm joined now by Daniel Baer. He's America's ambassador to the OSCE, and he joins me live from Vienna.

Ambassador Baer, it's great to have you on again.