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At This Hour

72-Hour Gaza Cease-Fire Ends in 90 Minutes; Blame Flying From Both Sides for End of Cease-fire

Aired August 01, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's 11:00 a.m. in the East. It's 8:00 a.m. out West.

We want to get straightaway to the breaking news, the Middle East cease-fire blown to pieces and an Israeli soldier now in the hands of Hamas.

This dramatic escalation started about 90 minutes into what was supposed to be a 72-hour truce. Israel's military says a Hamas suicide bomber attacked Israeli troops who were trying to destroy a tunnel. Two Israeli soldiers were killed; one was captured.

Shelling and rocket fire erupted between the two sides. Health officials in Gaza say an Israeli attack on Rafah killed at least 40 people and wounded more than 250, each side blaming the other for violating the cease-fire.

Right now, we want to bring in our Karl Penhaul who is live in Gaza. Also. Wolf Blitzer joins us in Jerusalem.

Karl, we want to start with you because, right now, Gaza is the battlefield in this conflict. What are you seeing right now?

KARL PENHAUL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It is a battlefield, John, and just as you've bringing me to air, I can hear in eastern Gaza the sound of heavy shelling.

If you like, you can just let me know and I can take a picture in close to that as well. I can see plumes of smoke going up on the horizon in east Gaza. In fact, we were there this morning about two and half hours into the cease-fire, and at that point, we saw a number of Israeli tanks maneuvering, and we heard them fire at least three tank rounds into buildings close by.

The sound I'm hearing now sounds much louder than Israeli tanks. It sounds like the pounding of Israeli heavy artillery.

We also know, though, that the focus of events right now is down in southern Gaza, down near the border crossing with Egypt, the town of Rafah, and there, according to Palestinian health ministry, they are now confirming 40 people killed and more than 250 people wounded in what they say was shelling by Israeli artillery.

The Palestinian health authorities say that shelling was directed at a market place and also to an area outside the hospital. We understand that that incident, or those two incidents, occurred around 9:30 local time. That's 90 minutes into the cease-fire, and that was more or less at the same time that the confrontation between Hamas fighters and Israeli soldiers was occurring at a spot about a mile away.

I'm just taking the picture in to the smoke there on the horizon, just across in eastern Gaza. That, as I say, is the area where we were this morning, but from our understanding, the combat is much more intense even at this moment down in the south of Gaza.

We are also hearing reports from people who have received phone calls, automated phone calls, the so-called robo-calls, down in Rafah, that they are being told to stay inside for their own protection.

We've also got just in the last few moments, John, a statement from the al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of Hamas, stating and accusing Israel of breaking this morning's intended cease-fire.

In fact, Hamas is saying that Israeli troops tried to advance close to the town of Rafah about 90 minutes before the cease-fire started. That led to a firefight, which they seemed to indicate continued after the cease-fire began.

Interestingly enough, they make no mention of the capture of an Israeli soldier. That raises to me two questions. Does it mean that Hamas is trying to get that soldier to a secure location before they claim responsibility, or does it raise the possibility that another militant faction may have taken that soldier prisoner?

We do know that Islamic jihad also operates in that area and also has tunnels. They do operate in coordination with the other militant factions in Gaza, John.

BERMAN: Karl, those are both key questions you bring up, our Karl Penhaul, live in Gaza. Can we keep the photo up there, the images there of the smoke in Gaza right now, because it is stunning and tragic in many ways that we're seeing these smoke plumes over Gaza?

We're not even 24 hours into what was supposed to be a three-day cease-fire, and now, not only is there no cease-fire, but there's every reason to believe the situation is significantly worse than when this cease-fire was set to begin.

We got the Palestinian angle, the angle from Hamas, from Karl Penhaul in Gaza. I want to go now to Wolf Blitzer in Jerusalem.

Wolf, you've been speaking with high-level Israeli officials all morning. What did they say happened, and what do they say is going to happen now?

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR, "THE SITUATION ROOM": What they say happened is that Hamas, they say, clearly violated the cease-fire, about 90 minutes into the cease-fire was supposed to go into effect 8:00 a.m. local time.

Around 9:30, they say Hamas engaged Israeli troops. The Israeli troops, according to Israel, according to the IDF, they were doing what was allowed, what was permissible to do during the course of the 72-hour cease-fire. They were dealing with what they call the decommissioning of these tunnels, these Hamas tunnels that go from Gaza into Israel.

And they point to a statement that Secretary of State John Kerry made last night in New Delhi when he specifically said -- I'll read it to you, specifically -- "Israel will be able to continue its defensive operations for tunnels behind its lines."

And the Israelis say that they were behind their lines. They were continuing their operations -- they say defensive operations -- according to the agreement for the cease-fire, when all of a sudden, Hamas militants came through and one of them had a suicide vest, they say, killed two Israeli soldiers. One Israeli soldier was captured and taken prisoner by Hamas.

So they're clearly blaming Hamas for this, and as a result of that, Israel launched what is clearly a massive operation in that Rafah area, in the southern part of Gaza. A lot of Palestinians, according to the Palestinian health ministry, they say a lot of Palestinians so far have been killed.

Israeli official are mincing no words. They say they're looking for this Israeli soldier. They're going house to house. It's a massive operation. They want to find him, and they say they're going to do whatever it takes to find this Israeli soldier and bring him back to Israel. We'll see how that goes.

But it's clearly a source clearly of concern. And it's clearly escalated what was obviously horrible to begin with. It's about to get even worse.

BERMAN: We're looking at live pictures, Wolf, near Gaza City of smoke plumes. Clearly there's been shelling there, bombing, and I think that probably pales in comparison what's going on in Rafah in the southern part of Gaza right now, the epicenter now of this conflict, where this Israeli soldier, according to the Israeli military, was captured by Hamas militants.

Wolf, the United Nations says they can't independently confirm which side of the story is correct, but they do say that if Israel's side of it is true, that this soldier was captured in this fight in the tunnels, then it would be condemned in the strongest terms. It would constitute a serious violation of the humanitarian cease-fire.

Israel in the past has gone to great ends to recover any soldier left behind on the battlefield, whether killed or captured. What do you expect will happen next?

BLITZER: They are going to do whatever they can to get this soldier back, 23-year-old young Israeli lieutenant. They are going to try to find him, bring him back.

It's unclear to me. I know that some experts don't think Israel is going to engage in negotiation, exchange of prisoners, as they did for Gilad Shalit, the other Israeli soldier who was captured back in 2006, once again through a tunnel, brought back to Gaza, held for five years. Eventually the Israelis released more than a thousand Palestinian prisoners in exchange for Gilad Shalit who is now back in Israel, living in Israel.

But there's been a great deal of opposition to that within Israel since then. They say these kind of lopsided trades only encourage Israel's enemies to go ahead and capture and kidnap other Israelis, whether soldiers or civilians, for that matter

So they don't want do it anymore, but we'll see what happens because there is this great desire that they always should bring back young Israeli military personnel, and they have done it for so many years. They have engaged in these negotiations that have resulted in these lopsided trades.

BERMAN: Wolf, in Jerusalem, thanks so much. We're going to check back in with you at the bottom of the hour because a lot could happen between now and then.

Just to tell you the name of the Israeli officer now believed to be in the hands of Hamas or militants, Second Lieutenant Hadar Goldin is the name of that officer now believed to have been captured.

The Palestinian permanent observer to the United Nations told CNN earlier he did not have any information about this captured Israeli soldier, but he did say -- in his words -- it's absurd for Israel to blame Hamas for the carnage in Gaza.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AMBASSADOR RIYAD MANSOUR, PALESTINIAN PERMANENT OBSERVER TO UNITED NATIONS: Those who are responsible for the tragedy of the people in Gaza is the Israeli forces. They are the ones who are injuring the Palestinians, displacing them, attacking schools and so on and so forth. They are the ones attacking the hospitals.

So therefore to try to flip the story that Hamas is responsible for that is so absurd. The spokesperson who said we can't trust Hamas, it was his government that negotiated a cease-fire in the year 2012. and it was in place for two years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, you heard Wolf Blitzer say a short time ago this completely changes the equation in Gaza in this fighting.

Earlier, Wolf spoke to Mark Regev, a spokesman for the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu. Listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK REGEV, ISRAELI GOVERNMENT SPOKESMAN: Our goal is to achieve peace and quiet for the people of Israeli, an end to the rocket fire, an end to the terrorist tunnels. That can be achieved militarily or diplomatically or a combination of them both. So far, Hamas has closed the door, slammed the door shut on any sort of diplomatic solution. I think there's no doubt that what Hamas has done today is not only undermined the chances of a humanitarian cease- fire.

Hamas, through a deliberate decision, has unfortunately led to a very dangerous escalation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Now, as Wolf noted, the last time that Hamas took an Israeli soldier prisoner, Israel responded immediately with forceful strikes on Gaza. Held that prisoner for some five years and then there was a very, very large prisoner exchange. No sense yet if that will happen this time, but Wolf says his sources indicate it does unlikely.

Ahead for us @THISHOUR, blame flying on both sides as the violence erupts in Gaza just 90 minutes after that cease-fire was put in place. We are going to bring you perspective from both Israelis and Palestinians, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, this just in to CNN, we have a new statement from Secretary of State John Kerry on the situation in Gaza. Again, the Israeli military says an Israeli soldier has been captured by Hamas militants.

This statement just in, a paper statement from the secretary of state, he says, "The United States condemns in the strongest possible terms today's attack, which led to the killing of two Israeli soldiers and the abduction of another.

"It was an outrageous violation of the cease-fire negotiated over the past several days and the assurances given to the United States and the United Nations."

Again, he goes on to say that this soldier who was captured should be released immediately.

I want to bring in right now James Zogby. He's the president of the Arab American Institute. You just heard that statement from Secretary of State John Kerry. This planned 72-hour cease-fire was designed to get food, water, medical supplies to the people of Gaza. If it was Hamas that violated the cease-fire, as the secretary of state just said, in a suicide bombing in a tunnel as Israel claims. If that is the case, did Hamas squander an opportunity for the people of Gaza?

JAMES ZOGBY, PRESIDENT, ARAB AMERICAN INSTITUTE: I don't think we know exactly what happened. I think of those Japanese soldiers in world war ii years afterwards coming out of hiding and thinking the war was still going on. These are guys in a tunnel. There's no power in Gaza. Phones have died and communications have been severed.

Did they know there was a cease-fire? I don't know that, No.1. No. 2., I think it was a mistake for this cease-fire agreement to continue to allow Israel, what they call defensive, but surely to people in Gaza remain offensive actions in the tunnels. This issue should have been left to the end of the negotiations, when you have armed Israelis entering tunnels or continuing to destroy tunnels and people come out of the tunnels, that is an act of war and people continue to fight. And it is a terrible tragedy that two Israelis died and apparently one was kidnapped, but even in the Bible John says an eye to eye. Limited to that. Not 40 eyes for one eye.

So this can only be viewed as a collective punishment. 40 people who nothing to do with the kidnapping, nothing to do with the suicide bombing, simply out of revenge or anger or frustration is a horrible acceleration of this conflict and certainly doesn't help us get back to the point where we can have a dialog about how to end this.

BERMAN: You bring up a number of excellent points, including whether this cease-fire agreement was flimsy to begin with, and we're going to about that with another guest in a little bit. I want to focus a little bit more on Hamas right now. You bring up the possibility whoever was in that tunnel, if there was an altercation in the tunnel with Israeli soldiers, may not have known the details of this cease- fire.

It raises the question, is there a breakdown in the power structure between the political wing of Hamas, which is spread out between Doha and Egypt and Syria and lord knows where else, is there a break down between the political wing and the military fighter who are still inside Gaza? Can the political leaders control what is going on inside of Gaza?

ZOGBY: That has been Israel's intent from the beginning. In the West Bank, after the three boys were kidnapped, Israel arrested almost 400 Hamas leaders and is holding them right now incommunicado, holding them without charges, simply on the basis of their membership with the organization.

The destroyed that part of the leadership and by the continuing bombardments in Gaza, and a couple of them have actually died. We know the names of the Israelis who died. We don't always know the names of Palestinians who have died. We don't know what's happened to the Hamas structure, but I think that it has certainly been impacted and there are more groups in Gaza operating than just Hamas.

And so to assume a centralized command and control and that these guys came out as a deliberate act on the part of Hamas, Israel may find that legitimate justification for their act of revenge now, and collective punish, but I don't think it holds up that this was a deliberate act to provoke. And therefore civilians who are dying in the wake of this, as you can see on the screen right now, this massive assault on Gaza city which had nothing to do with the kidnapping. It took place in Rafah, way in the south. I mean, this is a situation where I think they were looking for justification and they found it, but I don't think it holds up, and it's a tragedy for everybody at this point.

BERMAN: You point out, we're looking at live pictures right now of this conflict raging in Gaza right now, and the picture speaks for itself. There is no cease-fire. This 72-hour cease-fire lasted exactly 90 minutes. To an extent, is the Palestinian leaders, the state of Palestine in Ramallah, the government of Mahmoud Abbas that has been actively trying to negotiate peace, or at least a cease-fire, are they taken seriously right now inside Gaza?

ZOGBY: I don't know, but what I do know that the Hamas leadership as it is outside deferred to President Abbas, which is something they hadn't done before, and allowed a Palestinian authority leadership to organize the cease-fire talks in Egypt. That was, I think, an important step forward. Israel has not wanted to support a unified Palestinian leadership, but in recognizing this cease-fire, they did in fact acknowledge that, and the Palestinians had a chance of doing it.

I don't know, again, what happened in that tunnel. I do think it sounds a bit suspicious, and certainly does not justify what we're seeing play out right now. And the best thing for everybody to do is not -- unfortunately, I don't want to criticize the secretary's statement at this early point, but I think we ought to be holding our breath a little bit and not pointing fingers. It's not helpful and I think it actually ends up putting America in a position where we lose the ability to bring the parties together.

BERMAN: James Zogby, great to have you with us. We always appreciate your perspective, I hope we get to speak in happier times ahead.

ZOGBY: I hope so too.

BERMAN: Ahead for us @THISHOUR, the violence erupting in Gaza, we've been looking at the live pictures, smoke billowing over this small area. How far will Israel take it? We're going to talk about that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Back to our breaking news @THIS HOUR, the shattered cease- fire in the Middle-East. Palestinian officials say at least 40 people were killed and dozens more wounded when Israel shelled southern Gaza. Israel, right now, mourning the death of two more of their soldiers and fearful for the fate of a third who they say was captured.

Calev Myers is the founder of the Jerusalem Institute for Justice, that is a humans rights group. Thank you so much for being with us sir. We've been hearing from Palestinians representatives all morning, who suggest, in their words, that Israeli troops were going beyond the cease-fire agreement with their work in the tunnels. Now, we do not know what went on in those tunnels, to be sure exactly, at this point. But given that there was a 72-hour cease-fire with a mission to get humanitarian aid to the people of Gaza, was this work in the tunnel, was it provocative, would you say?

CALEV MYERS, FOUNDER, JERUSALEM INSTITUTE FOR JUSTICE: I think absolutely. I think we need to look at it within the larger picture. This is the sixth cease-fire that Hamas has breached. Five times Israel came to a cease-fire with Hamas, five times the Hamas fired missiles during that cease-fire. Now they created a sixth cease-fire, which was brokered by the United Nations and the United States government. One which came into effect this morning, 8:00 in the morning, within one hour after the cease-fire came into effect, militant Hamas members emerged from a tunnel, kill two of our soldiers and kidnapped a third.

The Hamas is making it very clear they are not interested in cease- fire and they want to continue with the war. We need to understand that with every woman and child that's killed in Gaza -- that creates political capital for the Hamas and monetary support. Each photo of a child that was tragically wounded benefits the Hamas to a greater extent. They don't want a cease-fire and I think Israel's only choice in the situation is to continue the current offensive until the Hamas leadership is broken and their completely routed from Gaza.

BERMAN: There is great outrage, no doubt, in Israel right now for what seems to be the capture of an Israeli soldier, an officer right now, in that tunnel. We just heard from James Zogby, from the Arab American Institute, thought, who said isn't this an eye for eye? This is a battle field, a dsoldier was captures, Israel has taken into custody many Hamas militants, so in his eyes, there's something of a moral equivalence, what do you say to that?

MYERS: I do not believe that the Israeli response, which took place after the death of our two soldiers and the kidnapping of a third, was just an act of revenge. I believe it's a continuation of an operation to debilitate the ability of the Hamas to continue firing rockets on our civilian population. Now, over the last 15 days, more than 2, 600 rockets have been fired at Israeli civilians.

Imagine if where you live, you have 200 rockets a day raining down on your civilian populations, and the fact that we have an Iron Dome which prevents most of these rockets isn't something I think we need to apologize about. The fact that many more Palestinians than Israelis have been injured and killed in this current engagement is not something that -- I don't think we should be playing the numbers game here. It's not just about numbers. There is a moral high ground. Hamas is firing at Israel from civilian populations, surrounded by women and children and Israel then --

BERMAN: Sir, you suggested yourself that from a public relations perspective, Hamas benefits from the pictures of these children and civilians suffering inside Gaza. So when Israel continues these attacks and bombings that hit, perhaps, U.N. schools, hit facilities where civilians live, hit market places, does it work against Israel's purposes? Are you only making the situation worse? Are you only making Palestinians who might not support Hamas, are you driving them toward Hamas?

MYERS: I think at the moment Israel has no choice. It has to debilitate Hamas. Again, Hamas is firing rockets from schools, hospitals, residential neighborhoods, when Israel retaliates, people are injured. Hamas sends those pictures around the world to gain support, and to gain monetary benefits, donations. In that sense, yes, it definitely hurts Israel. But it hurts the Palestinians worse then it hurts Israel. The Hamas organization is the worst thing that ever happened to

Palestinians in Gaza. As soon as they came to power, they took leaders of the PLO, shot them in the knees, threw them off the buildings. They conquered Gaza by force. And totally took away all democratic rights from the Palestinian people in Gaza.

There is no freedom of expression, no freedom of religion, no freedom of press. So the Palestinian people themselves are being oppressed by this evil organization which is now firing rockets systemically at civilian populations in Israel. I think it's in the Palestinians best interest and Israel's best interests to continue this action until Hamas is completely routed and a strong stable government is created in Gaza.

BERMAN: Calev Myers, we appreciate your prospective, thanks for joining today @THISHOUR. We're going to have more on the escalating crisis just ahead. Secretary of State John Kerry just released a statement condemning the killing and capture of an Israeli soldier. We will have a live report just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)