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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Afghan Rampage; Second American With Ebola Heads to Emory Hospital; Interview With Doctors Without Borders Nurse Who Worked on Outbreak in Guinea

Aired August 05, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: A U.S. general shot dead in Afghanistan. A German brigadier general shot and wounded there too, along with about 15 other coalition troops. We are just getting the details of this brazen terror attack in Kabul.

The also happening this hour, the second American Ebola patient now in the United States and on her way to a hospital in Atlanta at this moment. We're following her every move, her fight to survive the deadliest Ebola outbreak in history.

And another day, another Mideast cease-fire. But this time, both sides appear hopeful it will last more than just a few hours. Are Israel and Hamas finally ready to stop firing and actually start talking?

Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It's Tuesday, August the 5th and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

I want to begin this hour at a military training camp in Afghanistan where a U.S. general has been gunned down, apparently killed by an Afghan soldier, or could have been a Taliban fighter in an Afghan uniform. It is not the first time it's happened. And at least 15 other coalition troops are said to be wounded in this attack as well.

CNN chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto is gathering the details. He's at the Pentagon right now. And I'm also joined by CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, and from Cleveland, former Navy SEAL and Iraq War veteran Chris Heben.

And before we go, I want to just play this short piece of tape from an eyewitness and an Afghan Army soldier who was there when this attack happened. Have a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): I was inside the academy and suddenly I heard three gunshots. After the shooting, helicopters landed inside the academy compound and took away their casualties. I don't know what happened next.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So, Jim Sciutto, I want to bring you in first. I hear you're getting some new and breaking information about the actual attacker. What have you learned?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: We do, Ashleigh. We now have detail that this attacker was indeed an Afghan soldier. I'm told a vetted Afghan soldier. They go through a very serious vetting process, a seven-step vetting process, to make sure, for instance, that they weren't former Taliban fighters, also just to check their loyalties. This soldier went through that, had been with the unit for some time. But then today, took his weapon, a light machine gun, I'm told, a heavy weapon, and turned it on these coalition soldiers, killing, as you say, one U.S. general, wounding a German general and wounding as well 15 -- 14 other coalition service members, including Americans.

So this is a brazen attack, as you say. A significant casualty toll for the coalition there. And particularly, as we get to the point where U.S. forces are going to withdraw from Afghanistan and hand over responsibility for security in Afghanistan to these local forces that were being trained at this national defense university where this attack took place.

BANFIELD: And just quickly, what we were hearing early on was that this was a gathering for key leaders. Now, that's a translation, so I'm not going to say that that's exactly what this was, but something along the lines of some high-level training. I don't know how much the Pentagon knows or is able to share at this point, Jim, but high-level training would say to me, unbelievable vetting.

SCIUTTO: For sure. Well, this was -- this took place at the Marshal (ph) Fahim (ph) Defense University. Early on the reports -- the early reports from the Pentagon had been that it took place at Camp Cargo (ph), which is a training center for Afghan military officers. This defense university is in the same complex and that's where it took place.

Just based on the composition of the group involved, Ashleigh, you can tell that this was something of a senior meeting. But remember, you know, this is a place where they're training Afghan soldiers, Afghan officers, and that means you're going to have contact with Afghan soldiers and Afghan officers. And these green -- so-called green on blue attacks have been an ongoing problem for the U.S. military in Afghanistan. They had some success last year bringing down the numbers. But this would be a very significant one and with, of course, a very senior U.S. officer among the casualties.

BANFIELD: All right. I want to read a statement right now if I can, if everyone can pause for a moment. This is from the Afghan government about this attack this morning. "President Karzai describes the attack as an act by the enemies who don't want to see Afghanistan have strong institutions. While condemning the cowardly attack, President Karzai offs his condolences to the families of those Afghan and foreign military members killed and wounded in the shooting."

I don't know if you can read behind or between the lines, Colonel Francona, but does that sound like President Karzai is offering up the notion that, yes, it was one of his guys, or is he trying to sort of skirt that issue? LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think he's

trying to skirt the issue, saying this was probably someone that infiltrated from the Taliban. These green on blue attacks are going to be the scourge of what we're doing there. We had some success in tamping them down. But this vetting process that Jim refers to obviously has broken down. And if this is a key gathering of these leaders, what this tells me is the Taliban probably figured out there was going to be a meeting and either turned somebody, recruited somebody or bribed somebody to get into this meeting.

BANFIELD: That at least two generals would be present at.

FRANCONA: Exactly.

BANFIELD: Chris Heben, through all the tours that you did and also your work with Blackwater as a contractor, did anyone ever train you? I mean you're doing the training. You're helping these Afghan soldiers to figure out what they do when coalition forces leave, but did anybody teach you how to recognize the prospect of an oncoming green on blue attack?

CHRIS HEBEN, FORMER NAVY SEAL: It was very hard to identify. The training for us is very simple. You look at the behaviors of the individuals. You match them with the behaviors of the other individuals in the group. You can pick up some sort of loose disassociation between the 99 percent of the individuals in that group that are on board and then that one outsider perhaps. So you can isolate this person and further question him or pull him out of the evolution, the training evolution altogether and look into it.

But you do recognize -- you do what's called behavioral profiling. It's not racial profiling. It's not based on appearance. It's on behavior. So there is a level of training that does go into identifying these individuals. It's still very hard.

BANFIELD: Yes, and, obviously, if they can get to someone this high, two generals, at least according to our early notes on this.

HEBEN: Yes.

BANFIELD: And I just want to quickly bring in Jim Sciutto, once again.

You've got some breaking news, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, just a clarification there. It's early in the investigation as to what happened, why exactly this soldier, who had been vetted, turns his weapon on coalition forces. But a question they will ask is, one, it's possible he was turned by the Taliban or discovered that he had an affinity for the Taliban. It's also possible that this was a personal grudge. You know, in previous cases like this, that has sometimes been the explanation. They don't know the answer to that question yet but it's going to be one of the first things they look into, including how this soldier passed the vetting process but then, of course, became a killer.

BANFIELD: And then, Chris Heben, just add to that the notion, as I recall, and I don't think anything's changed since my days there, I don't know about your days there, but the nation identification system, it's effectively nonexistent, right?

SCIUTTO: Right. It's just as porous as the borders are there. There's -- it's hard to identify individuals. It's easy to put people here and take people out. And money buys loyalty. Blood is thicker than water. I don't think it's so much a revenge thing as I think it was just a target of opportunity. Very indicative of an inside job, I might add. This took a lot of planning. We're going to get guys in there with uniforms and have a weapon ready, especially a light machine gun. That certainly took some forethought and that's concerning to me.

BANFIELD: All right. And I just want to reiterate, we're still waiting on a lot of the investigation here, but at least 15 coalition troops injured, including Americans. A British brigadier general injured and an American general killed in this latest attack in Afghanistan, what's called the green on blues, when the locals attack the coalition forces.

My thanks to all three of you, Jim Sciutto, Colonel Rick Francona and Chris Heben.

We've got other big news that's breaking as well and I want to move on to that. Our other top story, today's arrival in the United States of another American infected with that deadly Ebola virus. The airplane that's been carrying Nancy Writebol has now landed at a military base in Georgia. And she'll be taken by ambulance to a special containment unit at Emory University Hospital. We've got detailed on her treatment, on her transfer and on her imminent arrival coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A second American infected with the deadly Ebola virus is now on her way to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta for treatment. So this is how she landed in the United States. The plane carrying Nancy Writebol landed at Dobbins Reserve Air Force Base in Marietta, Georgia, just minutes ago. And we've got some pictures as well that we're looking at of the airport. We're keeping our eyes peeled for the ambulance that's sure to arrive at any moment to actually meet that plane and then transfer her from the airport, sort of throughout the city and then towards the university hospital.

You will remember the details that Miss Writebol contracted Ebola in Liberia, along with Dr. Kent Brantly, who arrived on American soil on Saturday. They have both now been given an experimental drug never before used on human beings. It's called ZMapp and it appears that the medicine has improved both of these patients chances for survival.

Writebol's condition is apparently being reported as stabilized. Her appetite, we're told, is improving. That's according to the relief organization that she was working with in West Africa. And she even ordered one of her favorite dishes, which is terrific to hear. She apparently had a penchant for Liberian potato soup and coffee before she left on that plane for the United States.

Nancy Writebol's son is expected to see her as well when she arrives at Emory University Hospital and then her husband, who was also working as a missionary in Liberia, he stayed behind but he's expected to fly back and land in Atlanta in a couple of days to join her.

Our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, is live at Emory University Hospital right now. So all I can think of is when that ambulance arrives, I don't know if we're going to get that same image, Sanjay, where the first patient was able to walk of his own volition, whether Nancy will be able to do that. And then after that, getting through the actual facility, the staff and the patients are there, how do they logistically do that safely?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, to the first part of the question, Ashleigh, yes, we don't know. I think it was a surprise to a lot of people that Dr. Brantly, the first patient, was able to walk off the ambulance. Remember, he had been described as being in grave condition just a couple days prior. So we'll see what happens with Miss Writebol when she arrives here and that's going to be pretty shortly I imagine.

Typically what happens, the ambulance can literally pull right up to the hospital, which, by the way, is part of the reason they use an ambulance instead of a helicopter. It pulls up right to one of the doors by the isolation unit. Usually there's an elevator waiting. People are going to be escorting her. You'll see them wearing those so-called space suits, those bio protective suits. And she -- my guess is she'll be taken straight up to that isolation area. And it's at that point that doctors will start to begin to assess her, see how she's doing. She may get a chance to meet with her family later on.

A quick bit of color, Ashleigh. We know that the Writebol family and the Brantly family, these two families, they actually were -- got together last night. The Brantly family sort of offering some details on what to expect to the Writebol family, praying for her safe arrival. But my guess, that's all going to transpire over the next several minutes, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: That is sort of a euphemism for separately they'll be able to get together. I don't know if you -- I know you don't have knowledge of that hospital, but do you have knowledge of those units, the four isolation units?

How much contact and how close can the family members actually get to Nancy and to Kent?

GUPTA: Just to be clear, the families got together last night. But you're right, you can't go and see the -- be right next to these patients because they are in isolation.

For example, to paint a little bit of a visual for you, think of the room as having glass walls. We know Dr. Brantly was able to speak to his wife amber for 45 minutes, but she was on the other side of the glass wall. She could see him. There's a phone, intercom in there, so they could talk to each other and see each other.

To your point, not right next to each other. This particular isolation ward, you know, it's been around for 12 years. It's been used at least once, perhaps twice in the past, I understand.

But it was designed basically to help care for CDC employees that might come back from some assignment with an infectious disease. They needed to be isolated. This was the original intent. Now being used for these two patients, these two American missionary workers.

BANFIELD: I can't imagine what it's like to be these two patients and the fear and the terror that they've experienced, knowing full well what Ebola is about and knowing they contracted it.

Will Kent and Nancy be able to be together in that isolation? Or will they themselves be isolated from one another as well?

GUPTA: I think they're on the same ward. I think they'll be able to communicate again using intercoms and telephones. I'm not sure what exactly the proximity is of the two, but I imagine they'll be able to see each other and communicate and, you know, I don't know how that goes forward or at what point they may be released. At least for the time being, I think that's going to be the setup.

BANFIELD: All right, stand by, if you would, for a moment, Sanjay. You've been doing such incredible work and putting in so many hours there.

I also want to bring in a professor of epidemiology at Columbia University. Stephen Morse is here with me, live.

Before I get to the machinations of Ebola and testing for it for Americans who feel like they might have been in an airport, they're starting to feel fevers or chills and get very, very frightened that this might affect them, before I go there, I want to get Nancy's arrival.

When Miss Writebol pulls up to that hospital, if we get the image where we can watch her emerging from the ambulance, what is it you will be looking for that will give you some signs of what her condition is like?

STEPHEN MORSE, EPIDEMIOLOGY PROFESSOR, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Her general condition, whether she's able to walk or whether she has to be carried on a stretch or if -- this would be surrounded by protective material to prevent, obviously, her coming in contact with people who are handling her.

So just seeing how she looks, her general condition --

BANFIELD: Best we can, given --

MORSE: -- is the best indication --

BANFIELD: -- given what she'll be wearing --

MORSE: -- is the best until we have some tests --

BANFIELD: I don't believe that Kent Brantly was on a ventilator or anything of that ilk because he seemed to be walking fairly freely with his caregiver, both of them, I mean, completely sheathed in these protective suits.

But is that something you'll also be looking for with Miss Writebol, whether there might be some equipment that she's actually physically bringing with her?

MORSE: Yes, I think that's an important point, how much supportive equipment she may have, whether she seems able to breathe normally on her own. These are all things that we would look for.

But I think in the case of Kent Brantly, we were all very pleasantly surprised when he was able to actually walk out of the ambulance.

BANFIELD: I'd say shocked, given that he felt as a doctor -- he himself felt he was on the verge of death, and then this image showed up live on our screens at CNN in our coverage of his arrival on Saturday.

I mean, there he is, getting out. He was able to take a shower, as Dr. Gupta reported as well.

By the way, Sanjay, if you can still hear me, I don't know. Are you still there? Can you hear me?

Is he going to be coming, or is Nancy Writebol --

GUPTA: I'm still here, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: -- going to be coming to the same spot, the images that we just showed of Kent Brantly's arrival? Will she be arriving, the exact same protocol?

MORSE: That's my understanding. We talked to the people who are in charge of overseeing this whole process, and again, that's part of the reason that, for example, they chose to bring both Dr. Brantly and Miss Writebol by ambulance as opposed to helicopter, because they could bring that ambulance right up to the door.

That would give them the clearest shot of getting them up to the isolation area. So my guess, it's going to be almost identical.

BANFIELD: All right, Sanjay, stand by, if you would. And, also, Stephen Morse, stand by as well. I've got a lot more questions for you about this.

Obviously Dr. Brantly and Miss Writebol were helping, trying to help, as aid workers in Africa, and they were one of two of hundreds of doctors and aid workers trying to combat this virus in western Africa.

So imagine what it's like putting your life at risk to care for people who have this deadly and contagious disease. What medical protocols do you have to go through when it is your turn to get on a plane and come home?

We're going to talk about this with a nurse who recently returned from her mission of mercy in Guinea. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: I just want to keep you updated as to the two breaking stories we're sort of toggling between right now. There are two images on your screen.

On left side, that's the Pentagon briefing room, because we're expecting at about -- well, about five, six minutes from now, Rear Admiral John Kirby, the Pentagon press secretary, is going to give us an update as to that shooting in Afghanistan, where a green-on-blue attack happened.

An American general has been killed. Fifteen coalition forces apparently, somewhere in the vicinity of 15 coalition forces have been injured in that attack. And we're going to get some of the latest news straight from the Pentagon, again, at the bottom of the hour.

And then on the right-hand side of your screen, a moment ago, you saw that life picture we've been showing you since the top of the hour. And that is Dobbins Reserve Air Force Base where just moments ago, Nancy Writebol's plane touched down in Georgia.

Nancy Writebol is of course that American aid worker who contracted Ebola, the Ebola virus, while treating as a missionary, treating patients in Liberia. She has been given an experimental drug treatment and she has shown some pretty remarkable signs of recovery.

But we don't know if those signs are as remarkable as Dr. Kent Brantly who arrived here on Saturday, having undergone that same treatment and responding just simply miraculously to it. He is at the medical center in isolation. That's where she's headed as well.

The protocol will be, that ambulance will arrive at the Dobbins Reserve Air Force Base and it will ferry her to the same place where Brantly is getting treatment. Hopefully, we'll get an image of her, like we did Dr. Brantly, getting out of that ambulance.

There's a lot going on in Africa as well. The Liberian government has ordered that all victims of Ebola, their bodies be cremated. That's according to the BBC.

That's unusual because that is not the custom there. The problem is, there have been so many claims of improper burials, some towns are refusing to bury victims at all. Handling or coming in contact with the bodies of Ebola victims is terribly dangerous.

I'm joined now by a nurse with Doctors Without Borders who recently want in new Guinea where the outbreak began. Thank you so much for coming in to speak with us.

For anybody watching now, knowing you have recently been in contact with those who have been stricken with the deadly virus, what did you have to go through before you came back and you were in contact with the rest of us?

MONIA SAYAH, NURSE, DOCTORS WITHOUT BORDERS: Well, I just want to say, maybe for the Americans, Ebola is something new, but for Doctors Without Borders, it's not.

I mean, we've been tackling outbreaks for the, many years. This is my third time going --

BANFIELD: But not this deadly. This is the most deadly strain.

SAYAH: It is the most deadly strain. I mean, even when we talk about a strain that is not as deadly, it's quite deadly -- yes. It's just that mortality is quite high, especially at the beginning of an outbreak.

Going -- leaving the field, we spend a few days in the capital, where for me, I have a lot of debriefings, and we just check ourselves, make sure that we don't have any temperature.

And I take my temperature every day and if I do feel sick or if I have the slightest symptoms, I will just head to a designated facility where I just present myself.

BANFIELD: Are you ordered or encouraged to stay in a particular location for the 21-day potential incubation period before you come back?

SAYAH: Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We're asked to stay within a reasonable amount of time, within four hours, really, of a facility that could handle us, if need be.

BANFIELD: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is not contagious until a victim shows the signs --

SAYAH: Correct. Yes.

BANFIELD: So while you're incubating, you may not be contagious.

SAYAH: It's possible.

BANFIELD: It's possible.

I want to get now to the stories you've encountered. I've been reading up on aid workers like yourself who have described horror scene, wheel barrels with bodies in them, garbage trucks being used to move bodies.

People terrified to bury bodies. That just sounds like it's out of a movie. Is it really that terrible?

SAYAH: Well, I can only speak to my experience in Guinea. We haven't seen that in Guinea.

True, that people are doing burials without letting us help them do secure burials, but I haven't seen any of these scenes that were mentioned by other workers.

BANFIELD: When I watched the video of aid workers, you know, suiting up -- I think you call it barrier nursing. Is that what it's called, where you suit up entirely, every part of your skin is covered?

I can only imagine that is extraordinarily hot, that you must be sweating profusely and you can't be in a condition like that for very long.

SAYAH: You can't. It's quite difficult. In these countries, it's very hot already. It takes quite a while to get dressed. It takes quite a while to get undressed. So you have to plan your time inside.

You have to know when you're ready to go out. You can't just say, I'm done, I need to undress. It takes a few minutes to get undressed.