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CONNECT THE WORLD
Indirect Talks Between Israel-Hamas Continue in Cairo; WHO To Call Ebola International Crisis; African Start-up Ojey's Designs Limited; Voices of the Conflict; Battle for Iraq; Iraqi Christians Under Attack; Debating Scotland's Future; Rosetta Rendezvous
Aired August 6, 2014 - 11:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM CLANCY, CNN GUEST HOST: Fragile truce in Gaza: the ceasefire is holding for now as Israelis and Palestinians gather in Cairo trying to find
a way, any way, to end weeks of war.
Also ahead, overwhelmed: an exclusive trip to the front lines in the battle against Ebola, why doctors are struggling to keep up.
And should they say or should they go? Scotland debates its possible independence from the United Kingdom.
ANNOUNCER: This is the hour we CONNECT THE WORLD.
CLANCY: Hello, and welcome everyone.
Well, negotiations for a lasting peace between Israeli and -- Israel and the Palestinians continue in Cairo. They are underway. We are told Egypt
is mediating in these important talks as the two sides come together and try to find a way out of this.
So far, a fragile 72 hour ceasefire is holding. Many Palestinians finally returning to their homes, or what's left of them. The month-long offensive
turned many buildings, many homes into rubble like you see there.
The month-long offensive turned so many people into casualties as well, entire families wiped out.
The fighting is over for now. Israeli troops have pulled back, but they remain near the border and they have threatened that they will return where
they will strike against Hamas if more missiles are launched toward Israel.
Now just hours ago, Israel provided new details about last months' arrest of a man in connection with the abduction and murder of three Israeli
teenagers. A government spokesman said the suspect is a senior member of Hamas.
Hamas has denied any involvement in the attacks on the boys.
All right, we're covering this story from all angles for you, from both sides of the Israeli-Gaza border. John Vause is there in Gaza City, our
Saima Mohsin joins us from Jerusalem.
John, let's begin with you, the situation today in Gaza and the truce itself.
JOHN VAUSE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's a little bit better today than it was yesterday. It's amazing what two days without Israeli airstrikes,
artillery or tank fire can actually do. We understand that Israel has begun repairing those transmission lines, which deliver most of the
electricity here to Gaza. And that's crucial, because Gaza's only power plant was taken out about a week ago. So if they can get the electricity
flowing again from Israel into Gaza, that will relieve a lot of the problems right now.
A lot of the humanitarian aid is being distributed. There are still issues with the water system. The pipes have been badly damaged. The sanitation
is out. And in some areas, I was -- I'm in Beit Hanoun just three hours ago -- it is, as you say, complete and total devastation. There are
families still living in the ruins of their home, because they say these UN shelters, these schools which are now evacuation centers, they say they're
just too crowded. They can't get in there. They don't have any family or friends elsewhere in Gaza.
So they are either living in what was their homes, or they're outside across the street from their homes essentially just living under tents or
what -- a sheet or a blanket turned into a tent, Jim.
CLANCY: OK, serious situation in Gaza, let's cross over to Israel and Saima Mohsin and ask you about this arrest. Now this happened much
earlier, but it was just announced that the man to be really behind the kidnapping of those three Israeli teens has been taken into custody. What
do we know about it?
SAIMA MOHSIN, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jim, the reason why it hasn't been announced yet is because there was a gag order in place by
Israeli authorities. What we know about this man is that he's a Palestinians. He's called Hussan Kuwasme (ph). He's from the city of
Hebron in the West Bank. We were told that he was arrested last month. You'll remember of course in June three Israeli teenagers kidnapped, found
a few weeks later. They'd been killed and that's really the buildup to Operation Protective Edge.
Now Hussan Kuwasme's (ph) family says that they do not believe he was involved in any of this. And they say that they believe he's being framed,
that's what they're telling us.
Now according to police, though, Israeli police officials have told CNN that during interrogation he admitted to his involvement as a prime mover
in this kidnaping and killing and not only that, but that he received funding from Hamas.
And of course Hamas has always said they had nothing to do with a disappearance of these three Israeli teenagers nor their killings.
We haven't had, though John, a response from Hamas to this particular arrest -- Jim.
CLANCY: Saima, just one other note, and that is we're now involved in mediated talks, in other words Hamas is not talking directly to Israel,
they're talking to the Egyptians and vice versa. But what is the bottom line for Israel that it wants out of these talks?
MOHSIN: Yeah, but it's a very softly, softly approach. No face-to-face talks, as you say.
But as far as the Israelis are concerned they've sent a delegation, not a high level one from any side to be honest with you, Jim. But what the
Israelis are saying is they want Hamas to be disarmed completely once and for all and they want to see the demilitarization of the Gaza Strip. And I
guess what they mean by that is there are plenty of other militant groups like an Islamic Jihad as well that have arms and they want to see that
CLANCY: Let me jam in here -- let me get John in here to hear what the bottom line is for Hamas, what it wants out of the talks.
VAUSE: Yeah, they want the borders reopened, Jim. They want free trade, they want the free flow of goods. They want an end to what they call the
economic blockade of the Gaza Strip. I mean, that pretty much is the big one.
There's a whole lot of other demands, which are thrown in there, which I think it just sort of an opening negotiating point, but yeah they want the
borders reopened. And there's some talks that maybe they could have Palestinian Authority forces on that Rafa crossing between Gaza and Egypt,
maybe they could be manned by some kind of international force, maybe the Germans, maybe the UN could be involved there somehow. But they want those
borders opened. And I think unless they get that, then these talks aren't going to go anywhere.
CLANCY: There's a lot of questions about where the talks are going. Saima Mohsin there from the Israeli side, John Vause in Gaza City with a
Palestinian view this hour. I want to thank you both for being with us.
We're going to have much more on the talks in Cairo coming up on Connect the World in just a few minutes.
But first we'll discuss the role Fatah will play in the ceasefire negotiations with the former adviser to Palestinian Authority President
Then we'll take you live to Cairo for an update on those Egyptian mediated talks. What are we hearing out of them?
A little bit later, this conflict taking a toll on both sides, the Israelis and the people of Gaza. Hear how people living on either side of the
border are actually coping.
All right, well Russia slamming NATO's claim that Moscow now has some 20,000 troops along its border with Ukraine and has issued a complete
denial. NATO's concern is that Russia could use the pretext of a humanitarian or a peacekeeping mission to send in troops. Further to the
south, the Russians are conducting military drills, but that is some distance from Ukraine.
Let's go now to senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh who is in Donetsk in eastern Ukraine. And Donetsk very much the focus this day
about what happens next from both sides -- Nick.
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Certainly, Jim.
It's been a comparatively quiet day after last night where we heard a lot of explosions, small arms fire, what seemed like grenades, too, in the very
city center. We've been out to see what the cause of that was. It seems like certainly heavy artillery, if not even air strikes, caused a lot of
craters not so far from the city center on a road near a series of garages that we saw.
Also, the gunfight we heard, that seemed to be centered around a financial building here. Not quite sure who was fighting who. During the day, we've
heard a jet again in the skies over the city and the rumble of artillery quite far away.
In our travels, though, we've been back to one of the areas where the Ukrainian military seemed to be advancing yesterday and seen where shells
have landed killing two people. Clearly civilians are going to get caught in the crossfire here. And the real question is now the separatist
militants clearly do have their backs against the wall with the Ukrainian military moving in very fast. Do they fight it out in this city, or do
they, as they have in previous strongholds sort of vanish?
We've been hearing from a separatist leader here, a man called Oleg Sarov (ph) who gave a press conference. He didn't explicitly ask for Russian
help, said they thought they could hold on to this city. But it's quite clear in the eyes of separatists and the Russian state they think, quote, "
a humanitarian catastrophe is potentially afoot." Refugees and the potential loss of civilian life here.
A lot of pressure on Moscow to intervene, a lot of pressure from the west as sanctions for them not to -- Jim.
CLANCY: Is there any hope that calmer heads will prevail? Are there any negotiations going on at all to try to determine if there's another way out
of this than military confrontation?
WALSH: I have to be honest, not substantial ones that I'm aware of. There have been groups talking about this, but the Ukrainian perception they
offered their ceasefire, that was repeatedly violated in their eyes by separatists. And now I think they see themselves militarily having the
upper hand, that is pretty much the case. They are taking territory very fast, particularly around where I'm standing here in Donetsk.
I think Kiev will be unlikely to want to talk their way out of this, to concede further autonomy for this region, particularly given how
militarized it is.
The real question is what does Moscow do? If they lose this fight, if they see their separatist militants who they fueled, who they armed, who many
say they pushed into this position and backed until it became inconvenient on the global stage, if they see them lose, that is a very large
humiliation for Vladimir Putin. He pushed himself in his own words, the project of (inaudible), the notion of a widened border Russia that might
incorporate parts of eastern Ukraine, that's clearly not convenient now with the threat of sanctions possibly severely damaging the already weak
It's complex for him, though. Domestic opinion I think wants always Russia to seem strong, particularly the nationalistic fervor that Kremlin's TV
channels have been pushing our recently, Jim.
CLANCY: Nick Paton Walsh on the situation in Donetsk at a very delicate and some would say dangerous time. Thank you, Nick.
Now the containment of the Ebola virus in West Africa is a primary concern to the World Health Organization and so many others, that's why there are
rising concerns after reports of a death outside of West Africa. A Saudi man suspected of being infected with Ebola following a trip to Sierra Leone
died at a hospital in Jeddah on Wednesday morning.
And Nigeria reports a nurse there has died. Its health ministry has confirmed another five cases in that country.
The World Health Organization says at least 932 people have died from the virus. They are holding a two day emergency meeting to address the
epidemic. CNN's David McKenzie filed this exclusive report from a treatment center at the very heart of the outbreak in Sierra Leone.
DAVID MCKENZIE, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Taking incredible care to combat an unprecedented outbreak. Ebola can lead to
death with just one drop of infected fluids.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, that's why we take every possible precaution to prevent that.
MCKENZIE: Already, dozens of doctors and nurses have died in this outbreak. Still, Dr. Stephon Kruger (ph) says he has to come.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is what we need is, and this really big lack of resources. And at the moment, (inaudible) they do nothing. I mean, that's a
good enough reason.
MCKENZIE: But at Kailahun, they are losing the battle. Ebola has hit four countries. The number of infections continue to rise. This outbreak is out
(on camera): In the last two weeks, they doubled the capacity for confirmed Ebola patients and they're doing all they can to help those who are sick
but they're absolutely at capacity here.With the little effort (ph) that is right now, will it stop the disease?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, to up here, no, and it's really difficult because we are running behind (inaudible). We don't know where we're staying and
it's frustrating for us because we don't have a capacity to go everywhere.
MCKENZIE (voice-over): But here they do what they can. In the high risk zone, this woman calls out for help. She has Ebola, so does her son. "Ebola
is so deadly, it's killing our citizens, it's killing our country," says Tenneh Naloh. Her husband and son died of the disease. Seventy percent of
confirmed cases here will die, too.
(on camera): So she's confident.
(voice-over): To talk to Tenneh, we must stand a few feet away, the strict protocols protect us, the cruelty is they isolate her. Still, Tenneh
believes her 12-year-old daughter will make it and so will she. "We are feeling much better," she says, "we are strong and we're going to fight."
(on camera): What happens when you actually beat this disease?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's a real highlight of everything that we do here. Everybody comes to watch the patient come out of isolation. It really, I
think motivates the staff to continue doing what they do here.
MCKENZIE: David McKenzie, CNN, Kailahun, Sierra Leone.
CLANCY: And still to come this hour, hungry, terrified, running for their lives, as ISIS militants in Iraq make further gains a religious minority is
desperately trying to get out of harm's way.
And for richer or for poorer, Scotland must decide whether divorce from the UK is a costly proposition or a chance at success.
CLANCY: Welcome back everyone. You're watching CNN. And this is Connect the World. I'm Jim Clancy.
Well, the rockets remain grounded, Israeli troops have pulled back and the carnage has ceased, at least for now. The current hiatus in the conflict
between Israel and Hamas in Gaza gives people on both sides of the border pause and time to think, time to survey the damage from the last month,
time to consider what a workable peace just might look like and wonder if it is achievable.
Any deal not only needs an agreement between the warring parties, it also needs some common ground between the Palestinians, something that is
The formation of a unity Palestinian government was condemned by Israel. They refused, of course, to negotiate with Hamas. They call them
terrorists. But others have cited the unity government as crucial in the pursuit of peace.
I'm joined from Ramallah by Sabri Saidam. He's a former adviser to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas.
I think the bottom line today, and we may see something in Cairo about this, the bottom line today is will the Palestinians go to the
International Criminal Court to seek what they consider to be justice for what they saw happen in Gaza? The tremendous amount of casualties suffered
by the people there?
SABRI SAIDAM, FRM. ADVISER TO PRESIDENT MAHOUD ABBAS: Yeah, indeed, Jim, this is not going to be just, you know, something that's forgotten by the
Palestinians. Indeed, we're going to pursue it in the International Criminal Court.
What we're awaiting basically is the approval of Hamas and Islamic Jihad, because we expect counter attack by the Israelis in terms of legal attack
and pressing charges against the Palestinians. So indeed we have to be united even on that one.
CLANCY: Well, that's part of the International Criminal Court. If you join the court, the first thing that happens is you subject yourselves to
the jurisdiction of the court, which means that you are responsible to investigate, prosecute possible commissions of crimes against humanity, war
crimes. Are the Palestinians ready to do that? Is Hamas ready to sign up, Islamic Jihad?
SAIDAM: Well, I cannot decide on their behalf. What we're getting is positive signs that they will indeed sign. Yes, we are going to go ahead,
no doubt about this. We have suffered tremendous casualties, a big number of those were women and children. In fact the numbers I have in front of
me show that a third of those killed were women and children. So indeed we are not going to let go this time for sure. We are going to the ICC.
Given the pictures that you're showing right now, as we spoke and as you were introducing the session, you showed images from Gaza -- total rubbles,
total disasters, and whole families have been wiped out. So no doubt that Palestinians are going to press charges. We cannot just let Israel off the
hook on this one and on previous occasions where Palestinians were definitely targeted endlessly.
CLANCY: Let's listen to what the UN secretary-general had to say just a short time ago.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAN KI-MOON, UN SECRETARY-GENERAL: We must spare no effort to turn the current calm into a durable ceasefire that addresses the underlying issues
of the conflict -- ending rocket fire from Gaza, weapons smuggling, opening the crossings, lifting the blockade and bringing Gaza back under one
Palestinian government that accepts and adheres to the PLO commitments.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: Now there you have it, just a very brief summary from the UN secretary-general, but I think it really outlines the problem here. The
Palestinians need to agree with one another. They need to get unified. The Israelis have to take account of their responsibilities in all of this
SAIDAM: Yeah, for sure, Jim. And let me remind viewers that before the attack on the Palestinians, an attack on Gaza, Palestinians had come to
consensus and had formed a unity government. And moreover, the team and the delegation that's in Cairo now is a united delegation that's headed by
Fatah, (inaudible), Islamic Jihad and Hamas representatives.
So no matter what Ban Ki-moon would say or others would say, the Palestinians stand united. And contrary to what CNN has been reporting,
this is not a war between Hamas and Israel, this is a war that's waged by Israel on the Palestinian people at-large.
CLANCY: But at the same time, you look at the problem, it doesn't just apply to one person. And when you bring up the International Criminal
Court -- this has been used as a club to threaten Israel for a long time. And it's going to be a test to see if the Palestinians really go through
with it. But some look on at this conflict and they say what really needs to happen is that all sides, not one side or the other, all sides need to
be held accountable for their actions.
SAIDAM: I mean, you cannot equate between the victim and the victimizer. Israel cannot play this game anymore, this is broken record that the world
is bored of.
Israel has been occupying the Palestinians and not the other way around. Israel has been annexing land and building settlements, and not the other
way around, Israel has been expanding its annexation of land, constructive an apartheid wall and now expanding checkpoints in the West Bank and
closing off and besieging the Gaza Strip.
CLANCY: Cairo isn't going to solve that. Cairo isn't going to solve that -- Cairo isn't going to solve that.
SAIDAM: Well, I was going to get to that, Jim. Well, let me tell you -- let me tell you the Israeli government should have taken a short cut.
Instead of running an expensive war and running the threat of going to International Criminal Court -- and we'll certainly I assure you this time
no doubt we are going to the ICC for sure -- Israel should have taken a short cut and should have been living up to what the world would like to
see it and describe it, or some countries would like to see Israel as the only democracy in the Middle East. The only democracy does not kill 2,000
Palestinians, the majority of which are women and children.
Israel's short cut would have been the implementation of international law and previously passed 63 UN resolutions that have gone astray.
So instead this is not a war anymore between Israel and the Palestinians, this is a war between Bibi Netanyahu and the Palestinians. He's trying to
save his neck. He's trying to score a victory and he has not scored anything, if anything he had scored total failure and he's going back to
attack Gaza for sure if he doesn't get anything that he can sell to his people to be marketed as victory.
CLANCY: Sabri Saidam, the Palestinian viewpoint, a former adviser to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas. I want to thank you.
Important perspective today. We'll see what comes out of Cairo. We'll all be watching. Thank you for being with us.
Well, no matter where this struggle goes, the need to mediate a compromise between Israel and Hamas it's never been greater. Israel and the U.S.
regard Hamas as a group of terrorists, but some believe that the time has come for direct negotiations. If they can negotiate through a mediator,
why can't they talk to one another directly?
Go online at CNN.com/international where you can read the views of Ed Hussein. He's a senior fellow for the Middle Easter studies at the Council
on Foreign Relations. And he argues that regarding Hamas solely as a terror group doesn't help anyone when it also runs schools, banks and
mosques inside the Gaza Strip.
All right, later this hour we're going to hear from those living on the front lines of the conflict of Gaza, their voices.
But up next, we introduce you to an entrepreneur in Kenya who firmly believes one man's trash is another man's treasure. African Start-Up is
MARTIN OJWANG, FOUNDER OJEY'S DESIGNS LIMITED: Hi. My name is Martin Ojwant from Nairobi, Kenya, the brains behind Ojey's Designs Limited.
Please come to take a look at my workshop.
JOHN DEFTERIOS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: In the outskirts of Kenya's capital Nairobi, OJey's Designs Limited specializes in making contemporary modern
furniture from old bicycle parts.
OJWANG: We do the bar stools, the bar tables. We do chairs, the cafe chairs and cafe tables those ones can go to the hotels.
DEFTERIOS: Having dropped out of school, Martin Ojwang started making furniture for himself.
OJWANG: I wanted a coffee table that is unique, so I looked around and I couldn't find one, so I decided to come up with a coffee table that is made
of a bicycle design.
My first design was done by someone. I cut the material and then I went to the person and I told him to weld it this way and that way.
Business wise, a friend of mine came to my house and he looked at the coffee table and he said that this one is a very nice design. So he told
me that he wants it.
DEFTERIOS: Ojwang had been an accountant, but he left his job and officially started his business in 2012. He now makes furniture on order.
OJWANG: When we started Ojey's Designs I was along and then I had -- I employed some two people for assisting. And right now Ojey's Designs we
actually have four employees. And we have casual workers who come when the production is high.
DEFTERIOS: Ojwang's workshop is based where he lives, on the balcony of an apartment bloc on the fifth floor.
OJWANG: Getting a shop outside it's pretty expensive because they look for three months rent and then the goodwill. My landlord is a good person so I
only pay for my house. So I pretty much save on that.
DEFTERIOS: Ojwang's designs always use parts from bicycles from ris and tires to spokes and pedals. They're welded together to form the base of
his furniture. Despite access to bicycle parts, starting a business hasn't been easy.
OJWANG: Penetrating the market is a little bit hard and then getting the raw materials.
When you talk about the raw materials our designs are made from bicycle materials. And most of the rims that we use are imported. Where we buy
them is a little bit expensive.
Secondly, marketing the product. We do marketing online. And marketing online is a bit of a challenge, because of the trust that lays around
DEFTERIOS: Ojwang is, however, optimistic about the future.
OJWANG: In the next five years of Ojey's Designs we want to be visible countrywide in five years to come, yeah.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) CLANCY: This is CONNECT THE WORLD. These are the top stories right now. Global concerns about the spread of the Ebola virus rise after reports of a
death outside --
CLANCY: Global concerns about the spread of Ebola rise after reports of a death outside West Africa. A Saudi man, suspected of being infected with
Ebola following a trip to Sierra Leone, died Wednesday morning. The World Health Organization says at least 932 people have lost their lives since
the Ebola outbreak began back in March.
Russia flatly denying NATO's assertion that Moscow has placed 20,000 troops along its border with Ukraine. NATO, concerned Russia could use the
pretext of a "peacekeeping mission" to invade Ukraine.
A three-day humanitarian truce seems to be holding in Gaza, residents trying to pick up the pieces after a month-long conflict. But it could
take years to rebuild. Meantime, officials from Israel and Hamas are in Cairo for indirect talks aimed at a lasting cease-fire.
Our Reza Sayah is monitoring those negotiations for us. He joins me now, live from Cairo. What can you tell us? Are we well and truly underway
here? How are they interacting with one another?
REZA SAYAH, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, it looks like at least a portion of the talks is underway. And frankly, it has been very
challenging today to figure out how these talks are progressing and taking shape. Because remember, these aren't your usual sit-down face-to-face
negotiations. These are indirect talks between the two sides. They're complicated.
And even though these two sides have agreed to a cease-fire, agreed to stop fighting, there are growing indications that they're not on the same page
moving forward, when it comes to the next step.
Let's briefly explain to you where we are. According to Egyptian government officials, both sides are here, the Israelis and the
Palestinians. A Palestinian delegate telling CNN that at this hour, the Palestinian team is meeting with Egyptian intelligence officials. There
are some reports that the Israeli delegation is also meeting with Egyptians, although we have yet to confirm that.
But here's where things get murky, and here's where you start to see the mistrust, the lingering mistrust, that's fueling this conflict. A
Palestinian official telling CNN that he's not convinced that the Israeli officials here in Cairo are authorized to talk and address the core demands
The core demands include the lifting of the blockade, the opening of the border crossings, the release of the prisoners. Remember, Hamas wants
these issues addressed in these talks. This Palestinian official telling CNN that he's not convinced that the Israelis are here to do that.
And then briefly, we received this statement a short time ago from a senior Egyptian official describing the talks like this. "These are experimental
discussions in order to consolidate the cease-fire."
Now, Jim, that statement seems to suggest that they're still talking about the framework of these current cease-fires and perhaps extending the cease-
fire, and there's no indication that they're talking about a lasting truce, a permanent peace.
So, you see the complications moving forward. But we're here keeping our eye on things. We'll see what happens in the coming hours.
CLANCY: Yes, as we try to sum it up, we have one side saying we want the disarmament of Hamas, which they will never agree to. The other side
saying we want the entire siege of Gaza lifted, and the Israelis are saying, we're not going to do that as a reward for what we've just been
So, when you look at the positions of the two sides, is just an extension of a short-term truce really the best we can expect?
SAYAH: At this point, it looks to be that way. And we've seen this trip before. I think if you take a step back and observe what's happened in the
past 36 hours, the good news is, the fighting has ended, the bloodshed has ended.
However, much of the world wants more than that. They want to see lasting truce. They want to see these two sides come together and establish a
permanent peace. And in order to do that, both sides are going to have to talk and compromise and address their demands. At this hour here in Cairo,
there's no sigh that that's taking place.
CLANCY: Reza Sayah, laying it on the line there from Cairo. What we can really, honestly expect to get out of these talks, at least the way it
appears at this hour. Thank you, Reza.
While the Israeli government and the Palestinian factions try to find a way to halt the violence at a more permanent level, the civilians are really
the ones caught in the middle, the ones who experience the harsh realities of war, particularly on the Palestinian side. Here's a look at the toll
the conflict has taken.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD (through translator): I saw a boy cut up right there, over there, a man, he looked dead. And I saw a boy who was dead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The threat is very immediate. It's about 500 meters from our kibbutz.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had to continue because we have a lot of work to do there. Otherwise, they will find a way to come inside, all the tunnels,
and we have to destroy everything.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): The Jewish people are a moral people. The people on the other side, they are the ones without morals.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where I live now? Where I go now?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem is, there are too many people here, too many civilians.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He was just standing with his friends, trying to give a message for the whole world that there is something going on in Gaza, but
they shoot him with a cold blood, as I said, for no reason.
UNIDENTIFIED CHILD (through translator): Glass sprayed on me. It was so loud, so terrifying. I can't even describe it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): We pulled out seven bodies. One of them still alive, and there's another still under the rubble.
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: We use anti-missile system to protect our civilians. They use their civilians to protect their
missiles. That's the difference.
KHALED MESHAAL, HAMAS LEADER (through translator): Hamas sacrifices for its people, it does not use its people as human shields for its soldiers.
These are lies and Hamas does not seek international sympathy through its own victims.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Iron Dome is a real game-changer, because Palestinian organizations, like Islamic Jihad, wanted to use rockets to pose a threat
to Israeli cities. Now, with Iron Dome, the threat of rockets has been severely circumscribed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through translator): Do you see? They're hitting civilians. They don't hit some of the fighters or any of their so-called
military targets. Look at what they did, they destroyed the houses, the street, and killed civilians.
(AIR RAID SIRENS)
KARL PENHAUL, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Do you think there can be peace between Israel and the Palestinian people?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes! Two countries, Palestinian and Israeli.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Maybe one day we can live happily ever after. I remember my -- in my youth, before 73, back in 68, 69, we used to get
bicycle and go to Gaza.
CLANCY: Turning now to Iraq, where a government airstrike in Mosul has reportedly killed 76 people. The building that was hit was believed to be
used by ISIS militants, though local officials say dozens of those killed were actually civilians and that the building housed people who opposed
About 80 kilometers away in the town if Sinjar, members of one of Iraq's oldest religious minorities are literally running for their lives. ISIS
fighters stormed that area over the weekend. Those who ran are said to be trapped, now, without food, water, or medicine. In a tearful speech, one
lawmaker says hundreds have been killed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I'm not standing here to give a speech to the Iraqi people, but rather, to convey the bitter reality that
Yazidi people in Sinjar are currently living, Mr. Speaker, under the (inaudible). There is no God but Allah. Mr. Speaker, over 500 men have
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: ISIS, known as the Islamic State, has already targeted Iraq's Christians and other minorities, along with Shia Muslims. As Michael
Holmes reports, Christians were told to either convert to Islam, pay a tax, or else.
MICHAEL HOLMES, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): An ancient mosque said to be the burial site of the prophet Jonah, gone in a cloud of
dust. One of Iraq's holiest sites, revered by multiple faiths, including Christians, destroyed by ISIS militants.
Since taking over Iraq's northern city of Mosul in June, the Sunni extremist group has targeted a number of Shia mosques, religious shrines,
and cracked down on minorities, including Christians. This flier orders them to convert to Islam, pay a religious tax, or face death by the sword.
The threat prompted thousands of Christians to flee Mosul in June. Some left with little more than the clothes on their backs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These families were expelled from their homes on very short notice. They were told to get into their cars and leave. On their
way, they were stopped, they were stripped of their possessions. Many had their IDs taken, and they were told to simply walk away with the clothes
they were wearing.
HOLMES: Thousands of displaced Christians have sought refuge in Iraq's semi-autonomous Kurdish region, many receiving aid from UN sites like this
church in Erbil. Iraq's Christians once numbered more than a million, but since the US-led invasion of 2003, most have fled the country.
And ISIS's arrival in Mosul has effectively ended a presence there, one dating back to the earliest days of Christianity. The head of Iraq's
largest church calls the prospects for Christians frightening.
LOUIS RAPHAEL SAKO, CHALDEAN CATHOLIC PATRIARCH (through translator): The future of Christians is uncertain. If practical solutions are not
realized, then the number of Christians will go down.
HOLMES: Hundreds of Iraqi Christians carrying banners and chanting slogans recently marched to the UN office in Erbil, demanding a stop to what they
call the genocide targeting their faith.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): This is a crime against Iraq. Christians and Muslims, we lived together as brothers for a long time. We
just want the peace and love.
HOLMES: From Baghdad to Washington, ISIS's persecution of Christians has been internationally condemned.
BRETT MCGURK, US DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR IRAQ AND IRAN: This humanitarian situation is extremely serious, and it is heartbreaking,
particularly when it comes to the Christian minorities and other vulnerable groups.
HOLMES: But little is being done, and Iraqi Christians who have said mass in Mosul for more than 1800 years are now gone, forced to observe their
faith elsewhere now.
Michael Holmes, CNN.
CLANCY: Those Iraqi Christians still say mass in Aramaic, the language of Christ. Well, live from CNN Center, you're watching CONNECT THE WORLD.
But just ahead, we're talking about a potential disconnection. Political leaders in Scotland face off six weeks ahead of a vote on independence from
the UK. We'll tell you what's driving their debate.
CLANCY: Counting down: in 43 days, the people of Scotland have a big choice to make. They've got to decide: do they stay in the United
Kingdom, along with England, Wales, and Northern Ireland? Or does Scotland go it alone?
Last night in Glasgow, the leaders of the pro-independence and the pro- union campaigns came face-to-face on television for the first time. Now, the first minister of Scotland, nationalist leader Alex Salmond, wearing
the red tie here, and Alistair Darling, head of the so-called "Better Together Alliance" of unionist parties, waving the papers there. The two
of them met, both insisting their vision for the future would be better for the population.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALISTAIR DARLING, HEAD, "BETTER TOGETHER" CAMPAIGN: I, too, want to build a fair and just society. It is far better to do that when you've got a
stronger, bigger economy that you can build upon and make sure that you are treating older people fairly. And when it comes to voting government --
getting governments you didn't vote for, I didn't vote for him, but I'm stuck with him. I just accept that's what happens in a democracy.
ALEX SALMOND, SCOTTISH FIRST MINISTER: The difficulty in a general election is a majority of people in Scotland vote against the Tory party.
They have one MP, more pandas in the zoo in Edinburgh than Tory MPs in Scotland. But we still get a Tory government. That is what is
DARLING: Yes, OK --
SALMOND: -- about the status quo --
DARLING: That's --
SALMOND: -- and what is democratic about an independent Scotland.
DARLING: -- very briefly --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CLANCY: Passionate stuff. Democracy, freedom. But if the idea was to give Scots a better idea of which way to vote, the evening arguably ended
with -- well, it raised more questions than it delivered answers.
Political writer and commentator, David Torrance, attended last night's debate. He joins me now from Edinburgh via Skype. Thanks so much for
being with us. Well, how do you read it? It's not like this is a new debate about Scotland breaking away from the rest of the UK. At the same
time, what has changed this year?
DAVID TORRANCE, POLITICAL WRITER AND COMMENTATOR: Yes, indeed. The debate on Scottish independence, the modern debate on the Scottish independence is
half a century old, and the current debate around the referendum that's been going on for two or three years.
So, in the debate last night, it was very unlikely we were going to hear any new arguments, any compelling new cases for independence or the union.
And indeed we didn't. What we had was a fairly predictable canter through the standard policy issues in the campaign, a bit of personality politics,
and some old-fashioned political jousting.
For any undecided voters watching -- and the debate was squarely aimed at the between 10 and 20 percent of Scots who say they still don't know how
they're going to vote in September, it was aimed at them -- for any undecided voters, I don't think they would have emerged from last night's
debate much the wiser.
CLANCY: Well, the group ICM conducted a snap poll right after the debate. It found that a pretty decent majority felt Alistair Darling actually won
the contest, at least last night. The follow-up questions found that people overwhelmingly supported the person who represented, well, their own
But here's the question that really matters: should Scotland be an independent country? 42 percent of those who watched the debate said they
would vote yes, and 47 percent said they would vote no. That leaves that - - as you were talking about, the 11 percent undecided, and it's one of the narrowest margins of recent polls.
Is the economy -- is the threat of an economic meltdown really being dragged out as more or less a shillelagh, a club, that could be wielded
against those who want independence?
TORRANCE: Not so much economic meltdown. Even those on the Better Together side have not been that bleak in their prediction of what might
happen. But they do highlight legitimate concerns about the Scottish economy, how it moves forward, how it develops if there was independence.
And specifically, they highlight the issue about a currency union. That is Alex Salmond's proposal, that an independent Scotland would retain the
pound sterling even after Scotland became independent.
CLANCY: Yes, but don't unionists say uh-uh, no. You get your own currency, you let it float --
CLANCY: -- and you watch it fall.
TORRANCE: Absolutely. Well, they painted it that way, strongly. And Alistair Darling was at his best in the debate last night when he really
went for Alex Salmond over that currency issue. And Alex Salmond and the Yes campaign has never been very strong on that point.
And their weakness on that question, what their plan B was, how a currency union would work, how a separate Scottish currency would work, failing --
if a currency union didn't go ahead. He was exposed and not very convincing.
CLANCY: David, the Scots really feel that they're not being represented, that they're being left out by London? Or do they really think that, look,
we're better off where we are today?
TORRANCE: It breaks down. It's very difficult to say in a general way that that's the view. Certainly a sizable minority feels that way. They
have no sympathy for Westminster, for the UK government, for the idea of Britain or Britishness.
Similarly, another sizable minority is quite happy with that. They see Scotland as part of the UK, and they're content for that to continue to be
And as ever, there is a chunk of public opinion in the middle that probably is erring towards voting no, keeping Scotland in the union, but they want
more autonomy within the union. They want more powers for the Scottish parliament, which has existed, now, for 15 years.
CLANCY: All right, well-put. Political writer, commentator, David Torrance, I want to thank you very much for being with us, the view from
Scotland. And well, we're just going to have to wait. We don't have long to wait, but we'll see how things develop in the run-up. We've got about
40 days to go. Thanks.
Well, coming up right after this short break on CONNECT THE WORLD, technology going where it has never gone before in hopes of unlocking some
of the secrets of space and time. We'll explain right after this short break.
CLANCY: A European spacecraft topped off a decade-long 6 billion kilometer chase through the solar system in spectacular fashion today. The Rosetta
Probe made history when it became the first spacecraft to enter the orbit of a comet.
In November, a robotic lander is going to be touching down on the surface of the comet itself. That'll be another first. Rosetta will follow the
comet for more than a year. Scientists hope their mission will eventually help them learn more about the origin of comets, stars, and planets.
Well, for more on this groundbreaking mission, Mari Ramos joins me now. Mari, pretty amazing, all of it. You just read up on it, and it's
MARI RAMOS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Well, think about it: it took ten years to get there. This very unassuming spacecraft Rosetta, only about -- what? --
30 meters across, including its solar arrays, has made this incredible journey across the cosmos, really, chasing down this comet, being able to
enter into its atmosphere. And now, a planned rover that's going to land on the comet itself.
Why do all of this, right? Let's talk -- let's start from the beginning. The 20 science instruments that are onboard, including the 10 lander
instruments, what they're going to do is they're going to check out what's happening on this comet itself. They want to know what it's made of.
Because what happens, Jim, is comets like this one that we've been talking about, 67P, scientists believe that those are -- they've always been frozen
in time, from the beginning of time. So, you can find things on these comets that have not been disturbed by time, and therefore, we can see the
origins of the universe, as you mention, and even maybe how Earth itself was formed.
I want to show you a picture. They believe that this has a solid dark nucleus, that the comet does, and that could be an indication that it even
has carbon or other minerals in it. And so, all of those things are going to be analyzed.
One of the main ones is water. They want to be able to analyze the ice or the -- the frozen water that would be on the comet. In this picture right
over here, it was taken from 230 kilometers away from the comet itself. I want to call it an asteroid, because it doesn't look like a comet, like how
you would picture it, right?
It would have a lot of debris all around it, and of course, a massive tail behind it that you cannot see from this picture. But from 230 kilometers
away from the comet itself, that's pretty spectacular. And if you think about this, it's 400 -- Rosetta and the comet are 450 million miles away
from Earth. That's almost an unimaginable kind of stretch of space to think about.
But think of it this way. It took 20 minutes for these images to get here. If you come back over the weather map, this one is even more up close, and
talk about a postcard from the edge. Eventually, they will find a landing site on this comet, on P67, and when that happens, of course in November,
which is in no time at all, if you think about it. It's taken them 10 years to get there.
CLANCY: Yes. And then they take the wild ride as it heads towards the sun and find out it interacts --
CLANCY: -- and -- we're going to find out a lot. We're going to learn a lot, and I'll be amazed to hear -- it's just amazing to me that they're
able to do that --
RAMOS: It really is.
CLANCY: -- from that far away. Wow. As we search for all of the secrets in the universe, Mari Ramos and I would like to remind you that the team
here at CONNECT THE WORLD wants to hear from you, facebook.com/CNNconnect. Have your say. And you can also send me a tweet @ClancyCNN. Why not?
I am Jim Clancy, and that was CONNECT THE WORLD. Thanks for being with us. "The International Desk" is straight ahead.