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Dr. Drew

Cops: Mom Ran Over Couple Who Called 911; Neighbors of Nate Kibby Speak; An Anatomically Correct Doll Creates Controversy; One Man`s Wife Formula: Hot vs. Crazy

Aired August 07, 2014 - 21:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, hot car hit and run. A couple calls 911 to report a child locked inside. Police say the mother

mowed them down. They will tell us their story.

Plus, the baby doll that`s tearing social media apart. Why? Well, it`s got a penis.

Let`s get started.

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Good evening, everyone. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.

And coming up, furor, Sam, over the doll. Here`s the doll, my dear. Let me show it to you. It looks like a normal doll, doesn`t it? What`s the

deal?

SAMANTHA SCHACHER, CO-HOST: Yes. OK. Until you take off his onesie, right, Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: Yes, he`s got a onesie under his onesie. That`s right.

SCHACHER: All right. So, this is our most tweeted about story, Dr. Drew. And we`re getting a lot of response to this.

PINSKY: All right. We`ll get into it. But, first, a mother is accused of leaving her baby in a hot car -- again, another hot car. It starts out as

another hot car story. A couple calls 911 about it. The mother then allegedly runs them over.

Have a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It scares the heck out of me as some innocent child might die.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: A couple trying to help a child left in the hot car said the boy`s mother ran them over.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All four windows were rolled up.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She ran out of a store and heard the couple calling 911. Allegedly, she punched the guy in the face.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She then got in her car, backed up and then accelerated toward them.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She (INAUDIBLE) about 20 feet.

UNIDENTIFIEDF FEMALE: Twenty-seven-year-old Kristina Riddell ran over them with her white Honda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The woman who was run over has a broken leg and doctors say she may never walk the same again.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My tibia has a spiral right, and my tibia has three breaks in it.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For now, bound to a wheelchair.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s hard. To be so active and now I can`t do much of anything.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Joining us, Anahita Sedaghatfar, attorney, Karamo Brown, host of #OWNShow on Oprah.com, Evy Poumpouras, former special agent with the Secret

Service.

Anahita, I`ve got a couple of questions. First of all, do you have any sense of what should happen to this woman? Number one. And number two, is

it as this couple describes? I mean, I believe that she`s out on like $500 bail. Would she be out if it`s exactly that way they say it went down?

ANAHITA SEDAGHATFAR, ATTORNEY: Well, yes, we don`t know what she`s being charged with at this time. But I definitely think that this is criminal.

This is an example, Dr. Drew, of a parent that leaves their child in the car and there`s no dispute that this was an accident, OK? But that was

not, I should say, an accident, because if it was, wouldn`t she be running out and saying, oh, my God, thank you, guys, you saved my child`s life.

She would be on her knees praising them.

But instead, she supposedly comes out, she punches one of them, she cusses at them and then she tries to run them over.

I agree that her kid should be -- her child should be taken away. She does not deserve to be a mother until she can prove that she gets help or she

fixes herself. And it makes you wonder if her poor child is being abused or neglected at home.

PINSKY: Well, all right. So, Anahita being a good defense attorney by attacking the accuser.

Karamo, what do you say? You`re saying absolutely no to that.

KARAMO BROWN, #OWNSHOW: Yes, absolutely. Anahita, you`re incorrect for that. She -- this was a case about a mother bear protecting her cub. We

do not know what those other people did to cause this aggression. This does not mean she`s a bad mother, does not mean that she was abusing the

child in other ways. We cannot start to speculate that.

SEDAGHATFAR: I would normally say that, I would normally say that in a case where it`s disputable where it as an accident if a parent just forgot,

we had this whole debate with the hot car dad. But here, there`s no debate.

(CROSSTALK)

BROWN: Well, it was only 69 degrees.

Well, of course, you would be pissed off. If I had children -- if somebody is attacking my children, or around my children, I ran outside, I`m going

to make sure I protect them.

(CROSSTALK)

SEDAGHATFAR: Your child in the car with the windows rolled up with 4-year- old?

BROWN: We don`t know how long the child was there and it was 69 degrees.

PINSKY: Yes, Sam, it was not hot out, although we`re calling it a hot car incident. It was actually not hot out. She may have been gone for 120

seconds or something, and put the windows up because she was afraid someone would come after the child.

SCHACHER: Well, Dr. Drew, better safe than sorry. This car was left in direct sunlight.

But, listen, I`m with you, Anahita. I got your back, girl, because this woman should never have had custody of her child to begin with. She has a

long standing criminal history. They are violent charges. Domestic violence charges, assault charges. I`m sorry, if this is how she acts in a

confrontation in public, in broad daylight, in front of her own child, can you imagine how she acts behind closed doors? I fear for that child`s

safety.

PINSKY: All right. The woman who was run over spoke just a short time ago to JVM. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHANNON DOMINGUEZ, ALLEGEDLY ASSAULTED BY BOY`S MOTHER: Why? Why would you do that to another human being? I can understand getting angry. But

that`s not -- you don`t get angry and run somebody over. I have tender hands. I never pounded on her hood. I never called her those names. She

called me those names and called me an old hag and said he was going to kick my old hag ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Evy, I want you to settle this one for us. So, that`s Shannon`s account of what happened.

I read the police report. The woman who did the running over says that they pounded on her car, the husband jumped on the hood, they were the ones

yelling at her, she was scared to death and accelerated and hit somebody.

EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: Yes, you know what? I`m going to wring up something that Sam mentioned before. Sam, you brought up her criminal

history, assault, domestic violence and whatnot. I want to touch on something, Dr. Drew. The sympathetic nervous system -- people have a

response when they feel threatened. It`s either fight, flight or freeze.

So, this woman what we`re seeing, historically based on her criminal record, when she feels threaten, she initially fights. She`s an aggressive

behavior. Then when that doesn`t work she flees the scene. That`s her sympathetic response.

When people feel threatened, normal they try to think things through. This woman has a disconnect there. Her sympathetic nervous system completely

takes over.

The other thing I want to point out is she got in her car and she used that vehicle as a weapon. She could have killed somebody. She hurt this

woman`s leg.

It sounds to me -- like -- not sounds to me. To me, this is a woman, I don`t care what she thought, she had no right to behave in that way and to

run somebody over --

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Karamo --

BROWN: Evy, you`re wrong because if somebody -- if I saw somebody getting into their car, I would immediately move. So why did these people stay in

front of the car? It was because they were meddling instead of letting the police get there and handle their business, they wanted to be the ones, the

Good Samaritans, to fix the case and that`s why they got hit.

They should have moved. They should have written down the license plate and let the police handle --

PINSKY: What do you say?

SEDAGHATFAR: I think we`re always on the show talking about people when you see something, say something, do something. They did something.

PINSKY: Say something, not necessarily do something. Again, I`m conflicted on this story. At first, it seemed obvious to me to be -- no,

no, Sam, first, I thought it would to condemn this woman. Oh my God, she ran over the couple who was trying to do something good.

But then when you read the conflicting reports, I`m like Evy. I`m letting the fact that her history, and Sam, you brought this up, too. History does

tell us something, that this is an aggressive woman and, as you say, she doesn`t freeze, which is the para-sympathetic response. She has the

sympathetic autonomic system response of fight or fight, and flight in this case.

So, next up, more hot car cases. I`m going to tell you about an actual hot car hot car case with the behavior bureau.

And later, the baby doll with genitalia. That`s right. He has a penis and that`s driving people crazy on social media. There he is fully-clothed.

We`ll introduce you to more after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau -- Leeann Tweeden, host of the "Tomboy`s Podcast" on Blog Talk Radio, Jena Kravitz, clinical

psychologist, and Danine Manette, criminal investigator and author of "Ultimate Betrayal".

We are talking about a mother accused of leaving her son in a car with the windows rolled up, hot car. The car was then used to run over two people

who were calling 911 on behalf of that little child.

Leeann, I understand you told the producers you thought this was attempted murder.

LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Of course, I think it`s two counts of attempted murder, Dr. Drew. I mean, she obviously knew what she was doing.

She was pissed off, A, that she heard them on the phone calling her out, calling the cops, knowing that she was probably going to have consequences

on her actions.

So, A, she knew she was wrong. B, she got in her car, pissed off, said some things to everybody, to both of them, get in her car, backs up and

then runs over both of them in a row? I mean, come on, Dr. Drew. I think it`s pretty obvious she was trying to harm them.

And when it`s like hit and run, I think of when you accidentally hit somebody in a crosswalk, maybe you didn`t hear them or see them. We`re

talking about somebody who personally took their car, which is a deadly weapon, and ran over these two people because she was pissed that they

called her out and she has a violent history.

PINSKY: Well, Leeann, I agree with you. That is one possible interpretation, what happened here.

And, Danine, do you, A, agree with that, or, B, do you think it`s possible that the reason she acted so vigorously, she was fearful that these people

were trying to do something to the child?

DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: Well, I think that she`s somebody who purposely left her kid in that car. And people who purposely leave

their kids in the car aren`t thinking clearly as it is. So, you really need to be careful when you approach people like that. There`s a reason

that people repossess cars in the middle of the night, because you never know how somebody is going to react when you`re coming and you`re taking

something away from them, or doing something that will get them in trouble.

I totally believe in the -- if you see something, do something and say something, but I need you to see something and say something from a safe

distance.

PINSKY: And/or say something to the cops, not necessarily to the person who you think is the perpetrator.

Jena, what do you say?

JENA KRAVITZ, PSYCHOLOGIST: You know, what strikes me most about this, whether or not she was trying to kill anybody is her disproportionate

response to these Good Samaritans who were acting in her children`s best interest.

PINSKY: Yes, seemingly. Maybe she couldn`t interpret that. To us, it`s obvious --

TWEEDEN: She took it personally.

PINSKY: Well --

KRAVITZ: Whether or not she has compromised reality, whether or not she is sane, we don`t really know her background. But it leads me to believe if

she`s acting this way so impulsively with anger to strangers who were acting in the best interest of her child, how does she respond when he`s

challenge in her home by her child? I mean, is this what we`re seeing on a day to day basis and it just happened to make the media at this point? Is

she an angry person?

TWEEDEN: We know a little bit of about her story. I mean, she does have a violent history in the past. So, we do know a little bit about her.

PINSKY: She`s got a tendency to this.

(CROSSTALK)

KRAVITZ: Oh, no, no.

PINSKY: What`s that, Jena? What are you saying?

KRAVITZ: You know what? Her Facebook page.

PINSKY: Don`t look at Facebook.

KRAVITZ: You know who the author, director, producer and writer of your Facebook page is? It`s you. I mean, she can put out --

PINSKY: They do look good. They look cute. I mean, look at that loving mom and the little boys --

TWEEDEN: The happy-go-lucky pictures of yourself.

KRAVITZ: That`s right. She posts what she wants the world to see. And trust you me, people put pictures on Facebook of what they want to world to

see. It`s not a reflection of how good of a parent they are.

PINSKY: Samantha, interestingly, it doesn`t mention the domestic violence charges.

SCHACHER: Exactly. That`s the thing, too, Dr. Drew. Listen, I think because there are conflicting reports, I think all of us would have given

her the benefit off the doubt if she didn`t have such a violent history.

PINSKY: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Agreed.

PINSKY: Now, another mother left her baby in an actual hot car while she acted out sexually on her boyfriend. This is one with exquisite judgment.

Jena, there she is there. Now, Jena, my question is, you know, the reason we have this story with the couple being hit, I hope, is because people are

talking about kids being locked in cars in hot vehicles. And yet, every day, we still have people choosing to leave their kids in these

inappropriate environments.

KRAVITZ: It`s really unbelievable. I mean and what`s so sad is that in this generation, it`s becoming common. Our children aren`t going to know

anything else. That`s the worst part.

PINSKY: What do you mean? Common that they`re left behind in places, you think?

KRAVITZ: Common. How many times a week are you hearing that another child was left in a hot car?

TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, that`s all parenting. I think --

PINSKY: Well, no kidding.

TWEEDEN: Well, these are parents that probably aren`t ready for kids. They`re so consumed with their own lives that they want go and have

palatial (ph) with her boyfriend in the next car while the child is dying in their car. I mean, obviously we have a problem here. And there`s so

many parents that aren`t ready to have children that are having children at will and then, we`re left to take care of them or bury them.

PINSKY: Danine, that`s been a theme the last couple of nights. We`ve had people having too many kids, unable to take care of them. But these are

people that can`t even manage one.

MANETTE: They`re more concerned about their cell phone and their iPads than then their kid`s safety. You don`t forget your iPad or your cell

phone in the car. You make sure you go back and get that But you`re fine leaving your kid in there while you go in there and do your boyfriend. So,

you know, I`m disgusted with the whole thing quite frankly.

KRAVITZ: Distraction is not an excuse when you`re a parent. You simply just

don`t leave your kids in the car. When Good Samaritans come by and call 911 and call the police, doing what they`re supposed to do, you don`t try

to hit them with your car.

PINSKY: Back to this woman that was with her boyfriend or whatever, Sam, this is not the first story where sex has been the distraction that led to

the hot car baby death. I really think that sex addiction and the texting and the sexting that went on in that one kid -- that poor child in Atlanta,

there again was the source of distraction.

SCHACHER: Yes. And whether, though, Dr. Drew, if it`s sex addiction or just negligence, at the end of the day, this is happening far too often.

Seventeen deaths this year, 46 deaths last year. So, can we please have some sort of technology, a weight sensor that alerts the driver to remove

the kid as soon as the car is turned off? I mean, it shouldn`t be an issue. Come on.

TWEEDEN: I actually saw online there was a seven-year-old kid who came up with a colorful rope that when you opened your driver`s side door, you

can`t go past it because it reminds you something is in the back seat.

SCHACHER: Amazing.

TWEEDEN: Hello, a child can come up with that.

PINSKY: Jena, last words.

KRAVITZ: But do you want to hear the sad reality of this? The sad reality is that this has not happened enough times for car manufacturers to

actually do this.

PINSKY: It is a sadder reality. The whole thing is a sad reality.

Next up, was this missing teen who is now found held against her will for months in a rusty shipping container?

And later, the anatomically correct or more accurate than usual doll that is driving a wedge among social media users.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A law enforcement source telling us Abby was held against her will. Investigators are searching the shipping container on

his property

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If she was there, he either disguised her very well if he took her out.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you talk about what happened with Abby, Nathaniel?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kibby wasn`t talking outside of court.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All I can tell you is he`s mindful of the fact of what he`s charged with. He`s not too happy to be in this circumstance and I

think you guys will find out a lot more another day.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Kibby seen here in a high school photo has a lengthy criminal record dating back to his teenage years. The 34-year-old was

charged with assaulting Tammy Shackford (ph) in March.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He approached me and shoved me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The strange encounter which she says would turn violent stemmed from a car crash the previous month. Kibby crashed into Eric Ray,

Tammy`s boyfriend. The couple said Kibby wanted to settle on the spot. At that point, Abby Hernandez had been missing for four months, and the couple

thinks he may have been trying to avoid police.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Karamo and Evy.

And tonight, reports that the so-called above ground bunker had three different rooms in it, and was soundproof. Kibby`s neighbors are

whispering about a secret tunnel he might have been using to keep Abby out of sight.

And, Evy, when we first reported this you thought there might be some familiarity between the suspect and the victim. What`s your take now?

POUMPOURAS: Look, I still do think there`s something more to this story.

At the end of the day, she`s a 14-year-old girl when she was adopted. She`s 15 now. He`s guilty, period, done story.

However, it hasn`t come up -- police have not come out to say yes, she was abducted, yes, how she was released. Usually, that information is very

forthcoming when it`s very black and white. But they`re holding on to a lot of information. They`re doing more searching. They`re looking to

possibly press further charges on him.

The other thing that was interesting is that she showed up to his arraignment. There`s no need for her to show up to his arraignment.

Typically in past behaviors, in cases like this, usually the victims don`t do that. Usually, they`re so traumatized and stressed out, they don`t want

to see their abductor. She shows up and she`s very calm and collected.

And again, it could be just her demeanor in general. But I do belief that there`s more to the story. That is why law enforcement is not telling us

everything.

PINSKY: Anahita, you made that point about the arraignment and I bet you agree with what Evy was just saying about the circumstances in what the

police are suggesting?

SEDAGHATFAR: I do. I think, Dr. Drew, they haven`t confirmed any of these reports. So far, these are all reports. So, we don`t know.

Was he just a stranger to her that just abducted her while she was walking down the street or did he know her, which I think is more likely and he

manipulated her and possibly groomed her into going voluntarily with him? And those facts are going to be very critical to the investigation, Dr.

Drew. And even more critical with respect to whether or not the police charge him with more crimes. So, we don`t know.

PINSKY: Evy, I see you nodding vigorously at that, and pointing your fingers. Go ahead.

POUMPOURAS: Yes, I absolutely agree with you, Anahita. I don`t think this is a straight abduction. A stranger finds you on the street, grabs you,

takes you. I think there`s more to this. I don`t think she was held captive so to speak the entire time, meaning completely against her will.

At the end of day, he should be charged.

PINSKY: Now, again, not being against her will, could have been, Samantha, some sort of a Stockholm effect. I mean, she may have been sort of

identifying with her captor at some point.

SCHACHER: Well, here`s the thing, listen. I think that her going to court, maybe she felt empowered to be there, so she could look at her

captor`s face in his eyes. And I do have a problem with people saying that she went willingly. I know you guys aren`t saying she`s any less of a

victim and that she was groomed. I get that.

But what bothers me is that her mother went on the "Today" show on the record to try and dispel the rumors because it was hurting them. And so

far, we don`t have any evidence suggesting that this girl was groomed. So, I don`t want to further re-victimize the mother.

SEDAGHATFAR: It just doesn`t make sense, though.

SCHACHER: I know, but why can`t we give the mother the benefit of the doubt?

SEDAGHATFAR: I don`t like --

BROWN: Well, can I bring up something, Dr. Drew? Dr. Drew, I want to say something really quickly. This whole case is fishy. We don`t have any

details.

And we`re all talking about things that we`re hearing, repeating the same thing over and over again. We don`t know anything. We need to get past

this. And like I always say, let`s put a solution for this situation.

We need to talk to our kids about how to identify predators and not how to get caught up in the situation, because we`re hearing the same thing over

and over again. We don`t know what happened, why was she in court? Who cares why she was?

What about the kids who could possibly fall victim to this again? Let`s focus on those kids and teach them what they need to do. Because the last

thing I hear is people are teaching their kids at 3 not to talk to strangers. How do we teach 14 year olds of what to do when someone friends

them on Instagram, on Facebook or approaches them.

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, people like this, Dr. Drew, you always say predators know which kids to go after. They go after the vulnerable.

PINSKY: This girl`s family had just been through a big divorce. Dad is up the -- I mean, where is dad?

SEDAGHATFAR: Where is dad?

PINSKY: He`s been in her life as far as I understand.

And I mentioned mom. We now have the mom tape. Let`s go ahead and play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Seen here for the first time reuniting with a friend, Abigail`s physical appearance initially shocked her mother.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She was very thin. She lost a lot of weight, very pale.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: OK. So, there`s the mom and when she was appealing, Anahita, to the -- through the media to her daughter, it sounded like she was talking

directly to her, like she wasn`t freaking out that he had been gone for so long, that she assumed she was dead. She seemed to have a confidence that

she was talking to her. What do you make of that?

SEDAGHATFAR: Her whole interview was bizarre, Dr. Drew. And like I said, of course we don`t know either way what happened yet. But I think that she

knew this guy. Because there are reports that he was able to communicate with her mother. She wrote a letter apparently to her mother.

And it just seems strange to me that the police haven`t come out and confirmed anything yet, which leads me to think they`re obviously

continuing an investigation. What I predict is they`re going to charge him with some type of sexual assault, because it doesn`t matter and I said this

before, whether or not she voluntarily had a sexual relationship with him or not.

PINSKY: But why have they done it yet? What are they waiting for?

SEDAGHATFAR: I think they`re waiting. I know they`re still searching the house. They`re probably going to go through his e-mail. They`re searching

that little shed.

PINSKY: OK.

SEDAGHATFAR: I mean, they had to wait before they go and charge him with felony.

PINSKY: Evy, you`ve got an idea.

POUMPOURAS: Right, I agree with Anahita. What they`re going to do, Dr. Drew, is they need to get more subpoenas and search warrants to actually

dig in further with this e-mail. It`s not just seizing the computers and getting the hard drives. Then you have to subpoena the search engines,

whether it`s Yahoo or Google, or whoever, because you want to get more information. You want to look at everything and put it all together.

PINSKY: All right. Next up, hear from the suspect`s neighbors. Did they have any idea that a missing girl may have been hidden amongst them?

And later, a realistic doll that has parents panicking. They`re mostly concerned that it doesn`t seem -- or hasn`t recently seemed to have a

warning on the box.

Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did anyone see her around here for the last nine months?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, I haven`t noticed anything unusual. He came and went and occasionally I`d say hi to him.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think we would have heard something. I mean, we live pretty close together.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I would hope not. I would hope that she can`t be that close and nobody knew it.

SCACHER: How come none of his neighbors ever saw her going in and out. Nobody had any idea that she was there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Leeann, Jena and Evy. Jena, what are your thoughts on this case?

KRAVITZ: This is a guy who obviously has a long-standing history of mental illness, anti-social personality traits, schizoid traits, being a loner,

being an odd ball.

PINSKY: Tell people what you mean by schizoid. That`s a term we don`t use often on this show. I know what you mean, but please, go ahead.

KRAVITZ: Yes, it`s just somebody who doesn`t seek out emotional connections with other people.

PINSKY: Like the Unibomber would have sort of schizoid properties, yes?

KRAVITZ: Exactly. Exactly.

But this is a guy has a long history of mental issues. On top of that, he has compromised reality testing. We`ve heard reports at this point that he

believed there was a zombie apocalypse coming. We`ve heard reports that he`s a talented sketch artist, that he vociferates on sketching young

brunette girls with their hands tied behind their backs. He obviously has a preoccupation with women. Everyone he seems to have assaulted in his

past is a woman.

And I kind of wonder about his relationship with his primary female caregiver. I mean, that goes really deep. But at this point those are

sort of my initial thoughts.

PINSKY: Well, Leeann certainly reacted to the bound brunettes.

SCHACHER: Me too.

TWEEDEN: Yes, I mean, we were talking about it, Sam, before the show though. You had just found out that information, that the guy had -- it

was like he was obsessed. Even if he didn`t have the girl in real life, he would draw her, but always bound with her hands behind her back. I mean,

obviously that tells you something. And he`s been doing that since he was in school, like high school and probably even before that.

So, you know, I`m not a psychologist, obviously, but when I hear Jena talking about that -- he doesn`t seek out, you know, people to have

relationships with and to engage with people, I mean, that is unhuman, you know what I mean? Which is very scary. Because then when you rape

somebody or you hold somebody against their will, you have no -- you can`t really empathize with them. So he`s probably like, oh sorry, I`ll be back

in a couple of hours. Here`s some food. I can only imagine the horror.

PINSKY: And that isn`t just the schizoid, that`s more the sociopathic piece. Evy, I bet you have some thoughts on this.

POUMPOURAS: Yes, I don`t -- this is not a type of person who wants to have a relationship. This is an individual who`s looking to exude power. It`s

a power thing, having a woman with her hands behind her back, what does that mean? It means you`re in power. You`re in control. And she`s what?

You can do whatever you want to her.

That is how these type of serial attackers, these individuals with these psychotic disorders, behave. They want a victim; they want to play god.

What do you find? You find somebody vulnerable. Who`s vulnerable? A 14- year-old female. That`s how they work. That`s how they think.

PINSKY: Nancy Grace just spoke to a former law enforcement officer who had dealt with Kibby many times. Listen to this. And, Sam, you react.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ve known Nate Kibby since he was 12 years old and I`ve seen the worst of him. I also saw him when he was a young man. He

had a nice girlfriend. We would often talk about how he had kind of turned his life around. He had a good job as a machinist. He was proud of the

fact that he was becoming a productive member of the society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: But a long struggle, Sam, and not going as well as this guy thought.

SCHACHER: Yes, that`s interesting. Because he had a number of relationships. In fact, his previous girlfriend, which was a couple of

years ago, they lived together. So I really would love to hear from some of his past relationships, as Evy pointed out, and see how he was within

that relationship. I think that could be really telling.

PINSKY: It could be telling but it could also be really scary. Evy, what do you think?

POUMPOURAS: Look, I just want to point out -- sometimes these individuals are very charismatic, they`re very smart. And a lot of times they lead

almost two lives or they have two faces. There`s the face that you see when they go outside, they want to have a good life and a productive life.

But then when they go home, it`s seedy behavior that we don`t see behind closed doors.

PINSKY: Jena, you agree with that? That`s, again, the kind of schizoid quality?

KRAVTIZ: Absolutely. I mean, we`ve heard reports that Charles Manson was actually a really charming guy.

PINSKY: Yes, well, sociopaths can be extremely charming. And that`s a group, Leeann, that doesn`t have empathy. People are just there to be

used.

TWEEDEN: Exactly. And you know what`s scary though that we see time and time again in these disappearance cases where the girls actually come back

alive, it`s like they`re right under everyone`s noses. And that is so scary. I mean, they`re like right in your back yard, close to home.

PINSKY: Yes, that`s a great point. We`ve been hearing that a lot, haven`t we? Sam?

SCHACHER: Yes, Dr. Drew, a question to the panel for a clinician. Now that she is saved and home, what kind of treatment will she need so that

she can have a chance at a somewhat normal life?

PINSKY: I mean, you can look at Elizabeth Smart and realize that it is possible, but people have to work long and hard. Jena, go ahead and answer

that.

KRAVITZ: Yes, I was going to say, first of all, she seems to have really excellent family support. But unfortunately in this day and age, this is

not the first time we`ve heard of a young girl being kidnapped. Thankfully, she does have the stories of Elizabeth Smart, Jaycee Dugard,

these women who came before who recovered from these traumas and who were actually able to succeed in the community and have normal relationships.

So I`m hoping that she`ll get herself into intensive therapy treatment.

PINSKY: Yes. So what happens is, after these kinds of traumas, people have a sort of eternal shattering of their regulatory system and you sort

of have to rebuild that, you have to rebuild trust and the ability to be close to other people. So it`s interesting that Jena talked about them

being productive in the world, being able to have relationships, being able to regulate their emotions. That -- what we can look forward to -- that`s

a success, but that takes a lot of work.

Next up, it is our most tweeted about story of the night. A baby doll with a penis. Should he be on the store shelves and why isn`t there a warning

on that lovely pink box? Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s what a baby boy looks like. Why should it be shameful to know this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I wouldn`t buy it. I don`t see a reason for toys to be super realistic. Kids know it`s a doll.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The parents who sexualize everything are part of the problem, not the doll. To the kids they`re just babies with the right

parts. No big deal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Leeann -- joining us, Mike Catherwood, my love line cohost, and this is the story. We`re covering this story because

you guys are going crazy on social media, you`re tweeting about it the most tonight. The online outrage began when a mom and her daughter changed the

doll`s diaper. The anatomically correct doll surprised them, so Mom posted a picture of the doll on Facebook and then the social media wildfire just

ensued.

So the question for tonight is, is this appropriate for kids? Anahita, what do you say?

SEDAGHATFAR: No, Dr. Drew, I think this is so inappropriate. I don`t see any reason why a two-year-old should have an anatomically correct doll. I

mean, is there no semblance of innocence anymore?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Hold on.

TWEEDEN: Hold on, my 11-month-old is anatomically correct.

SEDAGHATFAR: Ultimately, though, Dr. Drew, It`s the parents` decision. I`m not going to tell any parent how to raise their child, but I just think

it`s inappropriate.

PINSKY: Samantha, to be fair, one of the big complaints was that there was no warning on the box.

SCHACHER: Oh my god, it`s a penis, run for the hills. I mean, Dr. Drew, it`s normal, it`s natural, kids should not be afraid or ashamed of their

body parts. And you know what? A lot of these younger kids have younger siblings, they watch their mom or their dad change their little brother or

their little sister`s diapers, and I think they`re more confused when they see a doll with no genitalia. And I`m more concerned with the dolls that

are not anatomically correct, and perhaps they have these unrealistic unattainable bodies like Barbie. That`s what we should be focused on.

PINSKY: Yes. Barbie is a totally unrealistic body, but Leaann, is it better than GI Joe or Barbie?

TWEEDEN: Well, OK, Dr. Drew, when I was first sent the picture today from your producer, it was funny because I looked at it and I forgot for a

second what I was looking at, because I look at that five times a day and I get all -- I have a baby boy. I change his diaper. That`s what it is.

He`s born like that. I mean, are men now going to have to have warning labels when they`re unbuckling their belts because women that are grown are

going to be like, oh my god, there`s a penis under your pants? I mean, that`s so ridiculously stupid.

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: Hang on, ladies. You`re unfortunately -- what?

TWEEDEN: Do you know how often little kids are naked in front of each other?

(CROSSTALK)

PINSKY: We don`t want to shame kids about their bodies. That`s absolutely true. And we do want them to learn things appropriately and not have shame

and not have mystery and intrigue about stuff that`s just normal anatomy.

SCHACHER: Make it a teaching moment.

PINSKY: But you guys have set Mr. Catherwood up. I`m so fearful of where he`s going to go with this. So, Mike, I`m just worried. That`s all.

CATHERWOOD: How dare you, Dr. Drew. I`m a professional broadcaster. How dare you assume I`m going to say something inappropriate.

First off, I`m actually a little bit insulted that our country has gotten to a point where we`re so sexually repressed that this is somehow even an

issue. Look, I have friends that are balding so we should make dolls that have no hair because it`s insulting to them to see a doll with a nice head

of hair. It`s insane. I mean, what is the -- I believe that this doll actually urinates, you can change its diaper.

PINSKY: Yes, he made quite a mess, as a matter of fact.

CATHERWOOD: What`s the message, if you make the smoothed eunuch over doll, that the urine just kind of falls out of your body like sweat?

(LAUGHTER)

CATHERWOOD: I mean, honestly, I wish that dolls, growing up, like Cabbage Patch dolls I hadm had more female anatomy parts so I wouldn`t have been

surprised when I reached down girl`s pants and had --

PINSKY: See why I was afraid?

SEDAGHATFAR: This is why we don`t want to corrupt little kids, Dr. Drew. This is not something for little kids.

PINSKY: Yes, look what happened to Mike. He was exposed young.

SEDAGHATFAR: It`s true.

SCHACHER: Dr. Drew, what do you think?

PINSKY: What do you think?

SCHACHER: Yes, you`re a doctor. What do you think? Does it affect little kids?

PINSKY: No, it doesn`t affect them. But I do think that parents -- there was no warning on our box. Toys `R` Us, we contacted them --

TWEEDEN: Life doesn`t come with a warning.

PINSKY: Well, they said they received no significant complaints and current packaging states that the doll is anatomically correct. Leeann.

TWEEDEN: If we just stopped talking about it and making a big deal out of it, because they are what they are. Men have certain anatomy; women -- I

mean, do we remember Kindergarten Cop? Boys have penises, girls have vaginas. No big deal. Children know this. It`s us, the adults, that are

making a big deal out of it, and then we have to go explaining what is human nature.

PINSKY: Right. I don`t think a child is likely to even differentiate between the Barbie and this -- what`s this guy called? Little -- lEt me

get his box out here.

SEDAGHATFAR: Anatomically correct baby.

PINSKY: You and Me baby. And I have a feeling that the people who manufacture this were interested more in the urological functioning and how

that -- so kids could learn about this. We, this panel, has gone down the sexual path. There`s a whole other organ system at play here, which is the

nephrological system, the kidney system, the bladder, and that comes out through the penis and that`s what they have anatomically correct here.

Some of the sexual organs in this doll are a little bit kind of weird. Its not exactly correct by any means.

CATHERWOOD: It`s life size for me.

PINSKY: I understand that. But that`s again -- well, forget it.

TWEEDEN: I always thought it was weird seeing a Barbie being completely smooth when I was a kid because I was like, I don`t even get it.

PINSKY: So you remember that. You actually remember that.

TWEEDEN: Yes.

SCHACHER: I do too.

(CROSSTALK)

TWEEDEN: I mean, it`s weird to look at her when you`re always changing her.

PINSKY: Mike, I don`t remember anything like that, and I think girls are naturally a little more tuned in to things in nature and what is or is not

appropriate. You know what I`m talking about?

CATHERWOOD: Well, I do. I do agree completely. But I also think that boys are a lot more curious but they also are much more scared and

intimidated by the idea of female anatomy. I mean, all kidding aside, my wife just had a baby and I was really kind of hurt at how little I

understood about female anatomy. I thought I kind of had it sussed out. But when you really get a boot camp on what goes on in a woman`s body, most

men are so blind to the idea. I mean --

PINSKY: And that is sad. That is really sad. That`s an indictment. But yet no one is going to -- the male doll gets to be anatomically correct;

we`re not going to see an anatomically correct female doll. We`re just not. I don`t see that happening. But that is sad. I remember -- remember

Dennis Wolfberg, the comedian?

SCHACHER: No.

PINSKY: It was a while ago.

SCHACHER: Sorry.

PINSKY: His son asked him, they were again in the bathtub and they`re noticing a difference and this is an important part of development in kids.

And the boys usually are surprised about what they see, and his little son asked him, and he told his son it was a boating accident. So our men are

not prepared to help educate their little sons.

We`ll continue this conversation in just a second.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These are little girls. They don`t need to know the anatomy yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Isn`t it more strange to have a doll without any genitalia at all?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Maybe we wouldn`t be so hung up on these parts and sexualize them if we treated them as normal, which this doll does.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Leeann and Mike. Our Facebook page, Twitter is lighting up with this stuff, comments about this baby doll, this

doll right here I`ve been sitting with, who looks pretty innocent on the outside but raises all kind of concerns about what`s on underneath this

jumper here.

So let me read you a quick tweet. Oh, before I do, I want to remind everyone -- do you remember, do you guys, the panel, did you see that

breast milk baby? Do you remember that?

SCHACHER: I remember that.

PINSKY: Yes, that one created a lot of concern, too. There it is. Where girls put on a -- you seen this, Mike? Where they put on a halter and the

baby is suckling at the little girl`s chest.

(LAUGHTER)

SEDAGHATFAR: Well, what`s wrong with that? We complaining about kids growing up too quickly? I mean, this is so wrong. It`s not even about it

being sexualized. I just -- it just does not look right. It`s not right.

PINSKY: Just think about our evolutionary heritage. Like, we need that to accommodate our adult experiences later? Or what are we --

TWEEDEN: I`ll agree with Anahita on that one, on the beast milk one, the breast-feeding. Kids don`t need to -- I mean, they already see their moms

doing it if they have younger siblings, so they don`t need to be doing it actively. But the boy with genitalia, that`s just normal. That`s just

human.

PINSKY: Well, here`s one -- I`ve got a quick tweet from @cesliejaennae (ph): "Trying to shield your children from every little thing makes it

worse later when they hear from someone else, #dirtymind."

CATHERWOOD: I can`t agree with Ceslie (ph) enough. What forces kids to grow up prematurely, or what we call growing up too early like Anahita was

saying, is sheltering them from all this natural sexual function.

(CROSSTALK)

CATHERWOOD: And then they learn on the internet or they learn on the playground.

PINSKY: I think the breast milk thing is way worse, because showing them things as opposed to gratifying behaviors seems like a significant line to

have crossed. This is the whole thing with kids. They get overdone with some of the behaviors they`re exposed to. Sam?

SCHACHER: Yes, the breast milk one, I`m sorry, is weird to me. Just seeing that video that you just showed of the baby suckling the nipple of

that little girl? It`s so weird.

PINSKY: She wears a halter that sort of --

SCHACHER: So weird.

PINSKY: -- seems like that. Now, let me give you some Facebook feedback. This is from our friend Audrey. It says, quote, "I have a bigger problem

with the dolls in skimpy clothes and tons of makeup being sold to children."

CATHERWOOD: That`s what I`m talking about!

SEDAGHATFAR: I have a problem with that also.

PINSKY: That`s right. And, as you guys have all said so far, the inappropriate body image dolls like the Barbies and what not that have

these extremely unrealistic body types that just promote a sense of inadequacy. And, again, the growing up too soon again in some of the stuff

you`re seeing in the dolls we just put up there.

Let`s -- I`m going to end this. It`s your guys` fault for --

SEDAGHATFAR: Thank you.

CATHERWOOD: I was just saying, Drew, giving people unrealistic standards from what they see, it`s exactly what happened when you and I shared a

urinal and I peeked down and I was like oh my god, is that thing real? I felt so inadequate.

PINSKY: I`ve got another controversial social media post. This for our -- guy`s looking for a so-called perfect woman. You`ll meet the man who has

the -- stop it, Mike. Turn his camera off.

We meet a man who has a formula for finding a perfect woman. We`re back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PINSKY: Back with Sam, Anahita, Leeann and Mike. And another controversial video here from online. A frustrated guy thinks he`s come up

with the perfect formula for finding what he`s sort of describing as the perfect spouse. He`s looking for the right combination -- as he describes

it, please keep your cards and letters to Mike Catherwood, not me.

CATHERWOOD: What?

PINSKY: He`s looking from the right combination of hot and crazy. Take a look at this from elitedaily.com. And then, ladies, please react.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hot is, as usual, measured from zero to ten. We`re all familiar with that. Crazy is measured from four to ten because of course

there`s no such thing as a woman who`s not at least a four crazy. Above an eight hot, and between a seven and a five crazy, this is your wife zone.

Below a five crazy and above an eight hot, this is your unicorn zone. These things don`t exist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PINSKY: Thank you for laughing. Our producers did some digging and realized this probably came from "How I Met Your Mother", the television

show. They did something very similar. There you go. That`s right, directly from that program. That was a graph he put up several times

during that particular episode.

But OK, you guys, Leeann, you want to react?

TWEEDEN: I think it`s hilarious. I find the humor in it. I think it`s funny. When I got sent the link earlier, my husband was actually home and

I started playing it. And the guy made one line and started talking about numbers. My husband goes, "It`s going to be a linear graph. He`s going to

talk about who`s crazy, who`s hot." And he even knew. We were laughing about it the entire time. I don`t take it personally; I think it`s pretty

funny. It`s entertainment.

PINSKY: Sam?

SCHACHER: I don`t take it personally but this dude is a straight up -- he is misogynistic pig. Like where on the graph is personality? Character?

Integrity? I mean, this guy really pisses me off.

PINSKY: OK. Now Anahita, have at it.

SEDAGHATFAR: Does anyone even understand the formula or the graph? I mean, I don`t understand what he`s saying, Dr. Drew. I think he`s a little

bit crazy himself. But if any guy out there can figure out this formula, I`ll marry you. I`m not that crazy.

PINSKY: What would with guy graph look like? What would be on the X and Y axis for males, ladies?

TWEEDEN: I don`t know. I just know something was funny in the very beginning when he goes, I have 46 years experience. He didn`t say I have

46 years experience with a wife. So he`s probably some single guy that lives by himself who`s creating this chart.

PINSKY: Mike, I`ve got like 5 seconds left. Last thought?

CATHERWOOD: He`s wrong that those girls are unicorns. Girls below four on crazy and above eight in hotness, Dr. Drew surrounds them with a box and

puts them on TV.

(LAUGHTER)

PINSKY: Guys, "FORENSIC FILES" now.

END