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Don Lemon Tonight

More U.S. Airstrikes in Iraq; Cease-Fire Ends in Israel

Aired August 08, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Alisyn Camerota.

Breaking news. More U.S. airstrikes on ISIS in Iraq. The U.S. hopes the bombs will stop the terrorists' momentum. And the humanitarian aid dropped has reached some of the desperate people. Is it enough? And what does mission success look like there anyway? Also, inside the terror group ISIS. We have one of the most vicious videos we have ever aired, and ISIS considers it their calling card.

And a president who ran on ending the war in Iraq finds himself making the case for military action there. He is facing tough questions for ordering the airstrikes. Why Iraq and not Syria? We will ask our panel of experts.

Plus, Gaza resumes rocket fire and Israel responds. Can anything save the peace process?

So let's begin now with Iraq. Let's get right to the latest on the mission against ISIS.

CNN's chief national security correspondent, Jim Sciutto, joins me.

What is the latest on the airstrikes, Jim?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: A second airstrike earlier today. That's two over the course of the day, or two groups of airstrikes. The first this morning, which was the first airstrike that struck artillery positions, ISIS artillery positions just outside of the Kurdish-controlled areas in the north.

Later in the day, there was a second strike on a military convoy carrying fighters and weapons, this staying within, Alisyn, the confines of what the administration has said, the two main goals of U.S. military action are at this point, one, protecting the religious minority, the Yazidis, who have been trapped on that mountaintop, and, two, protecting Americans, both American military advisers, but also diplomats who are in Irbil in the north. Those are the two main goals, protecting them from ISIS advances.

CAMEROTA: Jim, has the Pentagon released any information in terms of how many ISIS fighters may have been killed? SCIUTTO: The Pentagon has not. The Iraqis have released some

numbers. They claim that dozens were killed in some of these strikes. In my own experience covering the war, you have to take some of the numbers with the grain of salt. It's just impossible how they confirm those numbers.

Reasonable to conclude that many ISIS fighters were killed, but hard to quantify.

CAMEROTA: Do we know if ISIS fighters have a way to shoot down our airplanes?

SCIUTTO: We don't know for sure. I think it's reasonable to assume that they would have anti-aircraft weapons, guns.

Surface-to-air missiles, that's an open question. The Syrian army certainly had them. And we know that ISIS has captured some weapons from the Syrian army. We also know that they have captured weapons from the Iraqi army, which are, Alisyn, American weapons, ones that we supplied to them, certainly armored personnel carriers. There were reports today from Kurdish fighters that they had M1-A Abrams tanks. We don't know if they have surface-to-air missiles that can take down a jet.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the humanitarian airdrops. We understand we were able to drop 72 pallets of food and water. Do we know how much reached the people on the mountaintop?

SCIUTTO: We do. The Pentagon says it's 63 of the 72. So a pretty good percentage there. Above 80 percent made it to those people in need. How do they know it? They have got drones flying over this area. And they were able to identify from the drones that the people who needed those pallets got that aid.

The pictures you're seeing there now, this is when Iraqi military helicopters brought in aid. And you get a real picture there of just the desperation, people fleeing, crowding around those Iraqi helicopters just to get some food to eat, some water to drink. And some children who were apparently taken away by this helicopter, desperate parents just trying to get them out of harm's way.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. What a video of desperation we saw there. Jim Sciutto, thanks so much for the update.

SCIUTTO: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Let's go now to Iraq and to the city of Irbil in the north, where CNN's Ivan Watson has been talking to hundreds of people there fleeing for their lives.

Ivan, tell us what your day has been like.

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the estimates that the Kurdish government here is saying is that there are hundreds of thousands of Iraqis that have fled to this area who all basically fled their homes within the last 48 hours. So it's a tremendous wave of people who have no place to go. So,

today, for instance, we went to -- I'm sorry -- it's yesterday, because the sun is coming up, Saturday here now. But Friday we went to a church that was just packed with people sleeping amid the pews there, and spilling out into the grounds of the gardens and adjoining buildings and across the streets into unfinished apartment and office blocks.

And that's a scene that repeats itself all across this city, Alisyn, as really hundreds of thousands of people have been made homeless overnight and don't really have much hope of going home. Take a listen to an excerpt from this conversation I had with a man holding his young son in that church full of refugees.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: This is a bad situation. This is very bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bad, very bad. Food, a little, water.

WATSON: And no future?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No future. Future, U.S. aid can be -- help all people to go to USA.

WATSON: You cannot stay in Iraq?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no, no, no.

WATSON: It's too dangerous?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, no like in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATSON: And Alisyn, some of these people, it's not the first time they have fled is. Recall that in mid-June, that's when this movement was able to capture Iraq's second largest city, Mosul.

So, many of these Christians directly encountered the militants and were basically told leave town or you will be killed. They fled to neighboring towns, Christian towns that were under the control of the Kurds. And it's those towns that fell Wednesday night and into Thursday. So those people already knew what fate lay in store for them if ISIS came in. And that's why they all came in such vast numbers here into Kurdistan -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Ivan, your video is really striking of all of the babies. And you also tweeted out today a picture of a toddler just sort of strewn on the floor. What is the story behind this?

WATSON: I was walking around this church and kind of a bit personally overwhelmed and trying to wrap my head around what is clearly the beginning of a humanitarian crisis here, and almost stepped on this little child, which was deeply disturbing for me that I didn't notice the child on the floor there, and just seemed to illustrate just how big this problem is.

What we're seeing here in Irbil, just me anecdotally traveling around, seeing -- wherever I see clusters of these refugees, it is a far bigger problem because in the province to the west here, Dohuk province I'm being told that there his are more than half-a-million of these people, Iraqis who have had to flee their homes and have very little hope that they will ever be able to go back to their homes.

And whenever you are in one of these situations where so many people have been made instantly homeless, are so terrified, petrified with fear that they would just gladly run into a church or something and start sleeping on the floor, it's -- it's not a sight that you get used to.

CAMEROTA: Ivan, you're doing a great job. You're doing a great job out there. And you're understandably moved and shaken by what you have seen. You're in a danger zone. ISIS at last count, we have heard, was 18 miles away from where you are. And we really appreciate you bringing those pictures to us so we can see how desperate the people are there. Thank you so much.

WATSON: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right.

We want to go to Israel now, where the air war appears to be raging again in the skies over Gaza.

And my colleague Jake Tapper is live in Jerusalem.

Jake, what's the latest?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, the latest is there are a lot of people still working very hard behind the scenes in Cairo, trying to get that cease-fire together.

There is reason to have some optimism, in the sense that the Palestinians are still in Cairo. They have not left Cairo. And those who are looking for silver linings in this bad day, the end of the three-day cease-fire, can also look at the fact that today's violence, the rockets going into Israel, the airstrikes that Israel waged against Hamas in Gaza, were relatively low-level. That's not to dismiss the five lives lost in Gaza today.

But compared to previous days and weeks of violence, it was not as bad. But I have heard for the first time, Alisyn, some concerns among some of the players here that this is settling into a war of attrition. If Hamas is not willing to come to the bargaining table and agree to an indefinite cease-fire, if Israel is not willing to make any concessions at all, will this just end up a low-level military conflict like was seen in this region between 1967 and 1970, when Egypt and Israel fought the war of attrition, which was basically just a never-ending war, not high-intensity, but just constant, constant fighting, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: It's interesting, Jake. Just about an hour ago, Saeb Erekat -- he is a Palestinian

negotiator -- told Anderson Cooper on the air -- he said that he that he hopes that by this time tomorrow, that some formula will have worked out to extend another cease-fire. Is he living in a fantasy world?

TAPPER: No, he is not.

He is working hard. He is one of the players. The PLO is one of the players in Cairo, and they are pushing hard. They are presenting a unified front in front of the cameras, talking about how all of them are together.

But behind the cameras, Fatah, the PLO and others are trying to pressure Hamas, trying to convince them that, look, breaking the cease-fire, going back to fighting didn't do anything, didn't accomplish anything today, except five Palestinians, including a 10- year-old, lost their lives in the Israeli strikes after extremists in Gaza started firing rockets at Israel again.

So it's always possible, it's always possible. But there are so many issues and competing agendas going on behind the scenes. You the fact that the military arm of Hamas is ascendant, and becoming more intense in its belief that we -- they might as well fight. They have nothing to lose. And the political arm of Hamas, there is concern that they are losing energy, losing prominence within Gaza.

So I don't know. Obviously, everybody in the region, especially the innocent civilians, are hoping to an end -- for an end of the violence. So perhaps Mr. Erekat's desires will come true. But it seems very difficult to envision the end of the tunnel right now, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Jake, be careful. We will check back in with you at the end of the program tonight to see what else transpired this hour. Thanks so much.

TAPPER: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: All right, ISIS raging through Iraq, air war again over Gaza. How much can the White House do to contain a region in turmoil?

Joining me now is Fareed Zakaria. He is the host of CNN's "FAREED ZAKARIA GPS."

Fareed, great to have you here.

FAREED ZAKARIA, CNN WORLD AFFAIRS ANALYST: Pleasure.

CAMEROTA: It seems like the Middle East is on fire. Can you give us some perspective of what we're seeing tonight?

ZAKARIA: You know, fundamentally, what is happening if you look at the entire region from Libya through Egypt, through Syria, through Iraq, there used to be an order in the Middle East. It was an old repressive order. All those countries were ruled by dictatorships. Those dictatorships were supported by the superpowers in the old days.

And what has happened is that whole order has collapsed. From Libya to Syria to Iraq, even Egypt, what you see is the old structures of authority fell. And what people realized is there was no "there" there.

And the whole -- it wasn't just the state broke down. The nation broke down. And so people are now grasping for whatever old identities they have that can give them some sense of security, Sunni, Shia, Kurdish, Persian, Arab. It's not the nation-state. It's older identities than the nation-state.

And so what you're seeing is a battle among tribes, a battle among identities. And the borders don't matter. Civilians don't matter. It's not a regular war. And it's, as a result, a huge mess. And I wish I could tell you that there is an end in sight, but there isn't.

CAMEROTA: So it is because that whole stability broke down and that order broke down that there was a power vacuum and that ISIS was able to have this insurgence that we're now seeing?

ZAKARIA: Fundamentally exactly right, that the Iraqi state broke down, and the new government of Iraq has proved to be very sectarian.

So Iraq, just quickly remind people, is basically comprised of the Shia majority, the Sunni minority and the Kurdish minority. And the Shia majority rule in a kind of majoritarian way. They oppress the Sunnis. So the Sunnis found themselves marginalized. ISIS comes along and says we're going to represent you and we're going to fight the Shia.

And they have managed to take some of the disaffected Sunnis and fight pretty effectively. They're a very, very well-organized force. And as they fought, they have found money and arms, often American arms, of course -- this is stuff we gave the Iraqis. And that's part of the explanation for what is going on, which is the politics broke down. The majority started oppressing the minority. The minority decided to take up arms.

And that's why President Obama is right when he says, look, we can do some military stuff here, but, fundamentally, the politics of Iraq are broken. And if you don't fix those politics, military strikes won't do anything.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about what President Obama said last night in ordering those airstrikes. ISIS, as we know, is barbaric. They were engaged in genocide. That's the word that the president used.

So, in terms of all this complexity, was it a relatively simple decision to say let's just stop the convoys of ISIS?

ZAKARIA: I think it was, because, as you said, they are really bad guys. This is about as evil as it gets.

It's also -- you know, it's heartbreaking, because these are some of the oldest Christian communities in the world. These are Christian communities from the time of the Bible, really. And so to see them almost on the verge of extinction is horrific.

There is another piece to this, which is, you know, you always want to do good, but sometimes it's just not clear how you would do it. Do you have local allies? Would your efforts make a difference? That's one of the things that has stopped the president from doing something dramatic in Syria.

You could just be adding fuel on the fire. Here, you do have local forces, the Kurds, who are very tough, very strong, very pro- American, and have managed to carve out a kind of oasis of stability in this region. And so in a way, all of this military effort is going to bolster the Kurds, because the Kurds are now the guys fighting ISIS. I know it gets very complicated.

But, remember, three communities, the Shia, the Sunnis, the Kurds. The Kurds have been the strongest American allies. They're now under threat. So I think it's a very smart and appropriate that we bolster them, because if they fall, that would be a pretty dangerous situation for the region and a catastrophe for the United States.

CAMEROTA: But it sounds like there is reason for hope tonight. If we are able to beat back ISIS with airstrikes, because I hear that there are 20,000 strong? That is some of the estimate in terms of the fighters of ISIS. If the airstrikes were to work, and if we were to arm the Kurds and help bolster them, it's possible to get rid of ISIS in Iraq?

ZAKARIA: I think it's certainly possible that you deal a -- that you kind of cripple them.

Get rid of them, I think really does depend on that political solution where you bring back the Sunnis so that there aren't a lot of disaffected Sunnis. But you're absolutely right. The Kurds have been very -- they have been a very tough fighting force. The Kurdish army is called the Peshmerga. This has been generally regarded as probably the best strain and, most importantly, the most fearless, the most loyal. These are guys who want to fight. They believe they have a cause to fight for.

They believe in Kurdish independence or autonomy. So one of the struggles in American foreign policy is often we try to help locals. But if they don't want to fight, there is only so much you can do. Well, these guys want to fight. They're deeply pro-American. They have managed so far to hold out pretty well. They fell back because ISIS managed to -- it was really a lightning strike with American arms with new money they had gotten from that bank raid in Mosul that ISIS had done a few months ago.

This can be reversed. And you're absolutely right. We might look back even two weeks from now and say ISIS hits its high watermark and it's now in retreat.

CAMEROTA: That would be wonderful. Very quickly, let's talk about Gaza. There are rockets flying at this hour. Is the peace process null and void?

ZAKARIA: The peace process is null and void. I think you could have a cease-fire process. You could have a crisis management process in place right now. But the peace process was fundamentally a process that was designed to end -- to deal with the kind of long-term solution to this problem. Two-state solution, Palestinian state and Israeli state.

And the problem is we're just not even close to that, where the Israelis are nowhere near ready to do that. The Palestinians are divided. As Jake was saying, Hamas seems to be gaining strength among its militants because the militants are the guys who are willing to fight.

And so we can hope for a cease-fire, but I think the idea that we will get any kind of long-term solution now seems years away, if not decades.

CAMEROTA: Fareed, it's great to have you give us context tonight.

ZAKARIA: A pleasure, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thanks so much for being here.

When we come back, ISIS deliberately displayed its brutality to the world, how it is using fear as a weapon. Wait until you see this video.

Also, tough choices for the White House. Will airstrikes be enough to accomplish the mission against ISIS?

And in Gaza, is it one step forward and two steps back? Can the peace process or even cease-fire be saved?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Tonight, we're learning more about how ISIS has been so brutal and successful on the battlefield. They're using psychological warfare to terrify their enemies. And we warn you, some of the images in this story you're about to see are disgusting.

CNN's Brian Todd has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They're ferocious and relentless, capturing huge swathes of territory at a time. ISIS is unlike any other terror group on the battlefield.

DOUGLAS OLLIVANT, NEW AMERICA FOUNDATION: This is not your father's al Qaeda.

TODD: The old militant tactics, hit and runs, ambushes, roadside bombs. When other terrorist groups went to battle against well- trained armies, they were often wiped out. Iraq combat veteran Douglas Ollivant says ISIS is much more

disciplined than militant forces of the past with good unit commanders, better tactics.

OLLIVANT: But for the black flags, this could be a platoon of American army soldiers or Marines circa 2004 or 2005 moving in formation, soldiers throughout the column. We can see the weapons, the machine guns in the vehicles they can use to establish a base of fire.

TODD: Training is a big difference with ISIS, analysts say. They're getting help with that from outside.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: They also now have been bolstered by a significant number of Chechen fighters who have joined their ranks, also foreign fighters from across the Arab world, some with significant experience in urban warfare.

TODD: What also makes ISIS dangerous on the battlefield, the way they get the most from their arsenal.

OLLIVANT: Some of it is primitive like this tank. But, perversely, the more primitive the equipment they capture, the more likely they're able to use it, to maintain it. Simpler is better in their case. Mobile artillery pieces, other pieces of captured armored vehicles.

TODD (on camera): Experts say while the new tactics, training and weapons have been indispensable to ISIS on the battlefield and a crucial reason why they have captured so much more territory since June, there is another weapon they use, a psychological one that has also been very effective.

(voice-over): A warning, you're about to see some disturbing video. ISIS units win before they get to the battlefield because of this. Horrific propaganda videos show ISIS militants summarily executing captured opponents, shooting them in ditches, displaying the severed heads of their enemies on poles in the middle of city circles.

CRUICKSHANK: When it comes to ISIS, it's not about what they're capable of. But it's what people fear they're capable of, which gives them this advantage. And they have had a very deliberate strategy of terrorizing the Iraqi military.

TODD: Experts say Iraqi soldiers who have seen the videos often quit and run before the battle starts.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: And, by the way, there are far more gruesome and disturbing images in those videos than we even showed you.

I want to bring in now CNN terrorism analyst Paul Cruickshank. Paul, we blurred some of those images, obviously. But you can

see in the raw footage them just executing their victims, execution- style, there in the head. What is the point of them releasing these videos?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, some of these images are truly horrendous. And the point is to terrorize their enemies, to terrorize the Iraqi military, to terrorize the Peshmerga Kurdish forces.

And this gives them a big advantage on the battlefield, because we have seen many of these forces actually turn and run before actually confronting ISIS. So this tactic of fear and terror has be even more effective than all of the armor that they have captured and all the weapons they have captured, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Of course. Who could blame their victims for turning and running after they see things like this?

But then I want to contrast that sickening and hideous video that we just showed with another propaganda film that they put out that is completely different in tone. Let me show you some pictures of this other one that is sort of this soft music playing.

It shows men after prayer services smiling and hugging each other in greeting. It shows them with little children in their arms. Perhaps we can show a piece of this. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where you will have such safety in the world? Because when Allah is with you, there is no better place to be.

Look, my children. This is my fifth daughter (INAUDIBLE) brothers and sisters, I don't have the words. I don't have the words to express myself about the happiness to be here. There is no word which can describe it, because this is all -- this was a wish of all sincere Muslims, to (INAUDIBLE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, so, Paul, that's a different kind of recruitment video. Who is that supposed to be appealing to?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, that is trying to appeal to people who live overseas, trying to tell them, come over here, come and join us, come and fight with us, come help us build the Islamic State, because what we can offer here is an absolutely idyllic jihadist lifestyle.

Of course, the reality is different for people who happen not to agree with ISIS. They end up getting crucified and beheaded and so on and so forth. But this is to bring in foreign recruits. And they have been very, very successful at this.

Around 2,000 Europeans have traveled to Syria. Around 100 Americans and thousands more from the Arab world and all around the world have traveled to join this group to fight with it, and to try and help build up this Islamic State, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Paul, it's so shocking to hear you talk about those numbers; 100 Americans have been lured there by videos like this. But what is the appeal? What do they have to offer Americans?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, it's this idealized jihadist lifestyle. But it's also that these people feel that it's their religious duty to go and fight, to go and fight for this caliphate, for ISIS to try and build up this Islamic community. They see it -- this as their Islamic destiny.

CAMEROTA: And are they a religious group? Is that what they do? Or are they just barbarians who are bent on violence?

CRUICKSHANK: Well, they're both. But, primarily, they are a religious group. They are motivated by their belief in God. That really propels them. They have this fundamentalist interpretation of the Islamic text, which is completely distorted. But that is what is motivating them, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: And, Paul, quickly, how big is ISIS?

CRUICKSHANK: It's difficult to tell there.

Have been estimates of 10,000 or even 20,000 fighters. This is not a huge group, but it is active obviously on both sides of the Iraq-Syria border. And in Syria in recent weeks, it's become increasingly active, increasingly taking on the Syrian military over there and really building up its force there. So, this is not just a story about Iraq. It's also about Syria, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: All right, Paul Cruickshank, thanks so much for all of your expertise on this.

CRUICKSHANK: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Tonight, President Obama finds himself entangled in Iraq again, ordering airstrikes against an enemy that will stop at nothing to get what it wants. But can this mission get the White House what it wants? We will debate that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: President Obama of course ran on ending the war in Iraq. Now two years into his second term, he has ordered air strikes in the northern part of that country.

Joining me to discuss this are David Gergen, CNN senior political analyst and adviser to Presidents Nixon, Ford Reagan and Clinton. Robin Wright, joint fellow at the U.S. Institute of Peace and the Woodrow Wilson Center, and Joe Reeder, former undersecretary of the army.

Very impressive panel. Thanks to all of you for being with me this evening. I want to remind all of you and the viewers at home what the president said about getting into Iraq again now in terms of air strikes against ISIS, and what his rationale was. Listen to the president last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRES. BARACK OBAMA (D), UNITED STATES: When we have the unique capabilities to help avert a massacre, then I believe the United States of America cannot turn a blind eye. We can act, carefully and responsibly to prevent a potential act of genocide.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Robin, let me start with you. Is it the United States' moral obligation when we can to prevent genocide?

ROBIN WRIGHT, U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE AND WOODROW WILSON CENTER: I think every American feels any time you can save a life, it's worth considering what you can do about it. I think for the president, this is -- this was an immediate response to a grave humanitarian challenge. But I think it also opens up a lot of questions about, what do you do about a lot of other populations in the Middle East that the United States has not done anything about. In Syria, there are more than a million refugees. There are about a quarter of the 22 million population has been displaced.

There are humanitarian crises now across the region because of growing instability. And this is one in which there was an immediate appeal, an immediate need. But there is -- the political debate that is likely to play out in Washington is likely to center on a lot more than just what the president opts to do in Iraq. It has to do with the broader question of who the United States saves, how much do they do to protect stranded and vulnerable populations, how much do we spend, whether it's in military leverage or financial treasury.

CAMEROTA: David, do you think the president made a compelling enough case last night?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: I do. I think in my judgment, the president did the right thing with the humanitarian action to prevent a slaughter of as many as 40,000 innocents. And to order the air strikes to protect Americans, as Fareed Zakaria just said, to work with a long-time ally of the United States, the Kurds, and also to recognize that the Kurds are sitting on top of a lot of oil. Not mentioned, but true. Having said that, I think Robin is right about this raises new questions about what our overall strategy is to the Middle East. It also raises serious questions about where we go from here after these bombings.

What becomes our strategy in Iraq itself. And on that one, I think the president has opened the door to a lot of new pressure to defeat ISIS all together. Not simply to protect the Kurdish capital, but to lead the forces who are defeating it. It's not only republicans are calling for that, but two major newspapers in the United States, the "Washington Post" and "USA Today" have editorials coming out tonight both urging that we have a strategy that leads to the defeat of ISIS because it's such a destabilizing force in that part of the world.

CAMEROTA: Joe, I know that you think that we cannot air strike our way out of this problem. What do you mean?

JOE REEDER, FORMER UNDERSECRETARY OF THE ARMY: Well, the -- you're facing terrorists, Alisyn, on the ground, but and you're going to have to face them with boots.

CAMEROTA: But do they have to be our boots, Joe?

REEDER: They do not.

CAMEROTA: I mean, can we arm the Kurds? And in fact I think we are sending small arms and ammo to the Kurds. Will that work?

REEDER: Well, I think we need to fully supply them and a lot more. I may be a little more simplistic than David and Robin. I don't see this as raising a lot of big issues because I think this is easily distinguishable. All of the minorities, the reason the Yazidis are there, and they have been there for centuries is because the Kurds are basically a live and let live people. It is a democracy. They have three different parties there that do politics against each other very similarly as we do here. They've been our friend. They've been beside us.

They are the point of the spear. And they're the ones that are facing down ISIS. And ISIS is an enemy of this country. David is absolutely right. The president did the right thing. I think there is a lot more that he can and should do. And I think he ought to be supplying equipment. What you got here is you got ISIS fighting with the U.S. equipment against us because they seized it from fleeing Iraqi soldiers.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

REEDER: And you've got the Kurds fighting with obsolete equipment and weapons and almost running out of ammunition.

CAMEROTA: So the answer is, Robin, to give the Kurds more equipment?

WRIGHT: Well, that I think that's one of the options. The challenge is can -- without air power, what can the Kurds do on the ground. And just to give you a sense of the scope, the -- George H.W. Bush during operation desert storm unleash more than 200,000 bombs over a 38-day period. President Clinton over a four-day period unleashed 600 bombs and 400 missiles. President George W. Bush unleashed 30,000 bombs. And this was all against the Iraqi army. It's going to take a lot more than a few 500-pound bombs to actually make a dent on ISIS. This is the toughest military fighting force in the Middle East today, even the Iranians are afraid of them. This is -- these guys are willing to die by the dozens in suicide bombings. They embrace martyrdom. They are prepared to take any action to -- any action justifies the end.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

WRIGHT: And so it's going to be really tough to find a formula that is going to defeat them, or even contain them, I fear. CAMEROTA: Yes. Robin, David, Joe, stand by. Because when we

come back, Israel, Gaza, Ukraine, Russia, Syria. It's safe to say President Obama has his hands full. But how is he doing at handling these hot spots around the world, and how will all of this affect his legacy?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: I ran for this office in part to end our war in Iraq and welcome our troops home. And that's what we've done. As commander- in-chief, I will not allow the United States to be dragged into fighting another war in Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That from President Obama last night, trying to assuage the fears of war weary Americans. Tonight air strikes over northern Iraq are in their second day. And a second humanitarian air drop has taken place tonight, delivering more than 28,000 meals and 1500 gallons of water to the people stranded on Mount Sinjar.

I'm back with David Gergen, Robin Wright and Joe Reeder. David, it's ironic that the president who in his first term ran in opposition to the Iraq war, tonight finds himself embroiled in a conflict in Iraq.

GERGEN: It is indeed ironic. He is certainly the reluctant warrior, as so many have called him. And I think we have to say that President Obama and the United States are not responsible for all of the conflicts and the hot spots and the fires that have spread across the Middle East and into Ukraine. These are old ancient hatreds that have been revived that are out and displayed now. Brutality that has come from within that we're not responsible for. But there is a lesson here over the last few years that just if you use excessive force and it leads to a bad end.

If you use no force at all, if the United States begins to withdraw from the world stage, and that's what President Obama has wanted to do in many ways, he has wanted to pull back from Afghanistan and Iraq and some of these other trouble spots in order to rebuild at home, if there is a lack of American leadership, a lack of American resolve, others will take advantage of that and will exploit it. We've seen that with Putin in Ukraine. We're seeing that to some degree now in what has playing out in Iraq.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it's a tough line, obviously. And Joe, there have been a couple of editorials today that suggest that this threatens the president's legacy. The president who got us out of an unpopular war. Do you see it that way?

REEDER: Well, I mean, you do put soldiers at risk, airmen at risk when you're over a flight. You don't do that, Alisyn, when you arm the Peshmerga. And, you know, the Kurds are the best friends we have in the Middle East save Israel. Thirty five thousand dead and wounded in Iraq. The Kurdish region of Iraq not one dead or wounded. If that doesn't say it all. And that's where the Christians go, the minorities go. And so if we arm up the Pesh, that coupled with our air power, I think we can make all the difference.

CAMEROTA: Robin, obviously stopping genocide is a good justification. But of course the president didn't use his own rationale in Syria for stopping genocide where more than 100,000 people have been killed. What is the difference?

WRIGHT: Well, I think that's one of the questions that is likely to be brought up as this debate takes root in Washington, particularly in an election year. This is a tough moment for the president to have to take action. It may well become an election issue, what the United States does next, how does this play out. This is not likely to be something that is a short-term mission. If we're really trying to prevent a genocide, rescue the 40,000 Yazidis. And as a president said on his address late last night, prevent the ISIS from moving into Kurdistan, to prevent its assault in areas where U.S. personnel is based. But the president unfortunately faces very limited options in the world right now.

This is a moment that's not just about whether he has shown leadership. It's also about others who have not shown leadership. The Europeans have been rather rudderless when it comes to addressing some of these issues, relying heavily on the United States. And the fact is that there are many powers in the world in the globalizing era, that want not just democracy within countries but democracy among countries. And they think they should have more of a say in determining their fate. And so there are a lot of different factors that are limiting the president's ability to act, including the war in the United States. There are not many Americans who are keen about sending whether it's boots on the ground or engaging in a major financial operation that would arm whether it's the Sunni tribes or the Peshmerga.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And David, I just want to make your point very quickly here at the end. Because I thought it was an interesting one. You say it's hard to conduct a coherent foreign policy when your secretaries, your cabinet are always on the road. Why is that?

GERGEN: Well, you had to conduct, construct and then conduct a coherent foreign policy, you need people around the table. You need the heavyweights. And I can tell you in the White House, there is a feeling sometimes when they call National Security Council meetings, the heavyweights aren't there because they're gone. Secretary Kerry is on the road all the time. Secretary Hagel is in India and moving on from there, just as the president was making these decisions.

John Kerry needs help at the State Department. There are so many fires around the world. He needs a team of envoys and people that can go in and be in these areas so he doesn't have to be on a plane all the time and can be there with the president, putting this together. I think it's been very tough. I admire Secretary Kerry. I think he has been very persistent. And he has put in an enormous amount of energy. But one man cannot hold the world together when there are seven at least major fires burning around the world. CAMEROTA: Excellent point. Thanks to all you have this evening.

GERGEN: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We really appreciate it, Robin, Joe, David, great to see you.

Well, as Iraq spirals out of control, in Gaza the ceasefire is broken and the rockets are flying once again tonight. Is peace out of reach?

Jake Tapper is back with a live update from Jerusalem.

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CAMEROTA: The IDF says that Hamas broke the ceasefire by firing rockets from Gaza into Israel. Hamas denies that. But either way, the ceasefire is over.

Let's go to Jake Tapper. He is live in Jerusalem for us. What's the latest, Jake?

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: It's interesting, Alisyn. As the sunrises here in the Middle East, it's been almost eight hours since any rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel. That's obviously potentially significant because Israel has said it would match quiet for quiet if Hamas and the other extremist groups in Gaza stop firing rockets into Israel, they will stop responding with air strikes. So it has actually been a relatively or entirely I should say quiet evening. And that makes me wonder if the other factions that are in Cairo with Hamas and the Palestinian Islamic jihad are making headway in trying to convince them to stop firing so as to not bring Israeli strikes on the Palestinian people and actually trying to get them to agree to some sort of ceasefire proposal.

So I guess we'll see. We heard, as you mentioned that it earlier in the show, Saeb Erekat, the Palestinian negotiator telling Anderson Cooper that they were hopeful that this day, Saturday would bring news in terms of progress on the ceasefire. And I'm wondering if the quiet this evening is indicative that that is to come. I guess fingers crossed.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. But it does look like a good sign. And so if the ceasefire were being extended, and if the peace process were moving forward, would that mean that somehow they're making some progress on the blockade being lifted or lessened?

TAPPER: Well, you're -- you're getting very -- you're getting very ahead of the process. Right now I'm just expressing gratitude that nobody has been killed over the last five or six hours. Those more complicated issues about demilitarizing Gaza, as the Israelis want, lifting the blockade of Gaza as the Palestinians want are much more complex and difficult. And then that doesn't even get to the two-state solution and ideas of actual long lasting peace. We're just trying to get it through the night here. But that would be theoretically, Alisyn, the next step. Yes.

CAMEROTA: So you're suggesting I should contain myself?

TAPPER: I'm just saying nobody died in the last six hours. That's all I'm saying.

CAMEROTA: OK, I got it. But I mean, what is interesting, Jake, is we had Fareed Zakaria on, and he said he believes, you know, Secretary Kerry has left Cairo, and Fareed believed that it meant that the peace process was null and void. But that's not what you're saying?

TAPPER: I think that there is perhaps more potential. We've heard positive signs from the PLO and other representatives. I think there is potential that work is being done in Cairo. And I hope that that's right.

CAMEROTA: I hope so too. Jake Tapper, thanks so much for being there. Stay safe. It's always great to get your reports.

TAPPER: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: We'll be right back.

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CAMEROTA: That's it for us tonight. Feel free to tweet me your thoughts about all we've discussed. You can find me on twitter @AlisynCamerota. Thanks so much for watching. And stay with CNN all weekend for the latest on the crisis in the Middle East. Have a great night, everyone. "THE SIXTIES" starts right now.