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Ominous Developments in Iraq; Iraqi Forces Loyal to Iraqi PM Maliki Deployed in Baghdad; Temporary 72-Hour Cease-fire Between Israel and Hamas; Interview with Rep. Tulsi Gabbard; NASCAR Star Tony Stewart Withdraws from Race

Aired August 10, 2014 - 19:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


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JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington and we are watching developments in two troubled parts of the world right now. One of them Iraq, where Iraqi police officials tell CNN that special forces loyal to Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki are being deployed to strategic areas on the streets of Baghdad. Hours ago, Maliki gave a defiant speech, accusing Iraq's president of violating the constitution. Also today, in northern Iraq, more U.S. air strikes. They targeted positions held by the terrorist group ISIS.

And also right now, the Middle East -- Israel and Hamas both agree to stop shooting at each other, at least for 72 hours. It is a temporary peace deal brokered again by Egypt to allow negotiators on both sides to come to the table again. The agreement came after two days of rocket fire from Gaza and air strikes from Israel.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTIN SAVIDGE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I guess they got that house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: That was CNN's Martin Savidge hitting the floor just a short time ago in Gaza City and watch, it's about to happen again, showing just how slim the margin of error is there in Gaza. Under fire, Martin and his reporting crew, thankfully, were not hurt. Question now is will this latest cease-fire that just began hold even for 72 hours? The last time the two sides agreed to stop fighting, it didn't last.

And back to our main story now, I want to bring in CNN's Brian Todd right now. He is watching developments in Iraq. Brian, we heard something from the State Department reacting now to this apparent muscle flexing by the prime minister of Iraq, Nouri al Maliki. What are we hearing from U.S. officials now?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Jim, things moving fast in Washington as well. We have this just in. Brett McGuirk, the State Department's pointman on Iraq, he is the Deputy Secretary of State for Near Eastern Affairs, sent this tweet a short time ago. Quote, "Fully support president of #Iraq Fuad Masum as guarantor of the constitution and a prime minister nominee who can build a national consensus."

Jim, a strong indication that the administration is very frustrated with Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki and actively trying to build support for another alternative candidate.

Now, this comes as two Iraqi police officials tell CNN that significantly more Iraqi troops and security forces are being deployed in and around the green zone; major bridges which link east to west Baghdad have been closed. So, Nouri al Maliki, as you mentioned a short time ago, flexing his muscles there in Baghdad and the U.S. State Department now clearly actively supporting a candidate against him, Fuad Masum, the Kurdish president of Iraq, for prime minister.

SCIUTTO: Again, whatever U.S. officials have said privately about the Iraqi prime minister, publicly at least they have been pretty circumspect, but that a very public withdrawal of support for the Iraqi prime minister.

TODD: Absolutely is.

SCIUTTO: Ominous news on the ground. Thanks very much to Brian Todd, joining us from Washington.

I want to bring in now Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard. She is a Democrat representing Hawaii's second district. She is also an Iraq War veteran. I wonder, Representative Tulsi Gabbard, and first of all, thanks very much for joining us from out there in the middle of the Pacific. We're glad to have you.

REP. TULSI GABBARD (D), HAWAII: Thanks for having me on your show. Aloha.

SCIUTTO: So we have breaking news developments there, in addition to the military fight in the north with U.S. air strikes against ISIS, you have this political battle under way, troops being deployed in Baghdad. Clearly Prime Minister Maliki not going quietly. What is the significance of this in terms of finding stability in Iraq?

GABBARD: Well, this action by Maliki is really, for me, just further evidence of why Iraq's governance, why their political problems that they're facing now, are absolutely none of our concern and why we should not further give Maliki's government any more legitimacy. His government is clearly a joke and to say any further action that we will take against ISIS or other extremist terrorists in Iraq based on whatever Maliki or the Iraqi government does is honestly, it's ridiculous.

We've got to stay very focused about what's in our best interest and let the Iraqi people figure out the kind of future they want for their country, whether it's staying as one country or breaking up into three territories or whatever that is. The Iraqi governance is really not our concern.

SCIUTTO: The administration, the president, have placed an enormous amount of capital and importance based on political developments in Iraq. They say that Iraq needs a stable government, an inclusive prime minister, et cetera, et cetera. Do you think the administration is too focused on political developments there, maybe too hopeful that Iraq can come up with an inclusive government, while you have a war under way with ISIS?

GABBARD: I absolutely think the administration is not focused where we should be focused as a country. By continuing to focus on Iraq's governance and so-called political stability, we're continuing the same mistake that we've made really since 9/11.

If we look back to the day after 9/11, we had our nation's leaders declaring war against these Islamic extremists who attacked us, who declared war on us, and that we would go after them, anywhere in the world and take them out. Since then, we saw over the years really a distraction and we ended up nation building. We ended up occupying Iraq. We ended up occupying Afghanistan. And spending a lot of our nation's treasure and precious lives doing so.

This has clearly been a mistake because now we are seeing the result of that distraction through groups like ISIS and other Islamic extremists who have grown in their strength, their capabilities, their discipline, and now we're having to deal with the consequence of that, both with what's happening in Kurdistan and in other places.

SCIUTTO: I want to remind our viewers that you're an Iraq veteran, so you're not someone who's sort of sniping from the sidelines. You've seen things on the ground there and you've seen the cost of the Iraq War.

I want to ask you this, separate from the political --

(CROSSTALK)

GABBARD: And Jim, let me just comment on that real quick, if you don't mind. It's because myself and others, so many people who joined the military after 9/11, we joined the military with the motivation of saying we want to go after the people who attacked our American citizens, who took American lives, so it's disheartening to see the distractions that our country's leaders have led us down over the last several years, but even with the Obama administration.

A couple of days ago, a White House official said a quote that was very disturbing to me, and I quote, he said that, "The Obama air strike was not an authorization of a broad-based counterterrorism campaign against ISIS." End of quote. And for someone like myself to have that blatant statement that there is no broad counterterrorism strategy against people who are continuing to wage war on us against American citizens is very, very disturbing.

SCIUTTO: So you want to see more than U.S. air strikes? The administration has defined this mission very limited, as going -- saving the Yazidi people who've been surrounded, but also protecting U.S. personnel in Erbil and Baghdad. Do you think this should be a broader mission that aims to push back and destroy ISIS?

GABBARD: Well, I'd like to be clear -- what we should not be doing is nation building. What we should not be doing is getting involved with building governments or taking down nation's leaders. What we should not be doing is occupying other countries.

What we should be doing, in a very targeted, tactical, military way, is focusing on taking out these Islamic extremists, such as ISIS or al Qaeda or whatever you call them. These are people who continue to wage war on us, and conduct tactical strikes on them wherever they are. And with the Kurds -- now we see good example of how we can do this. We've got Kurds on the ground who are fighting, very courageously, against ISIS. We should be supplying them with heavy weaponry so they can actually wage a fair fight against ISIS and provide the air strikes and the cover that will help finish this battle once and for all for them.

SCIUTTO: Representative Gabbard, please don't go anywhere. We're going to keep you till after the break because we have a lot of other stories we're monitoring, including two others overseas, a humanitarian crisis growing in Eastern Ukraine, and a fragile cease- fire between Israel and Hamas. We want to get your take on both those stories. Please stay with us, right after this.

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. We're talking developments in the Middle East, particularly in Iraq. I want to bring back in Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard; she's a Democrat representing Hawaii's second district. She is also an Iraq veteran herself.

Talking about the administration response, earlier in this broadcast, I had on several former generals who fought in Iraq and commanded in Iraq, including General Petraeus' aide, who said that whatever the administration says about a limited mission here, that they see the U.S. mission expanding in terms of fighting ISIS, including the possibility of ground forces -- if not a fighting forces, at least forward-deployed military advisers.

Do you agree that that's necessary, that it's likely, and that that would help win the fight against ISIS?

GABBARD: I disagree with what they're talking about. Because the problem that we're seeing, as we hear too a lot of different commentators on this, is everyone is talking about this as if it's about Iraq and our U.S. involvement in Iraq. Are we going back to war with Iraq?

That's not the question here. This is really not about Iraq. Our U.S. military should remain very laser-focused on seeing how we can take out these Islamic extremists, such as ISIS, al Qaeda, whatever name you call them by, in a way that is precise, tactical and effective.

What we're seeing now, for example, in Kurdistan, there is no need for us to have these ground forces there because you have the Kurds, the Peshmerga, who are fighting very effectively. They would be more effective if we provided them with the heavy weaponry they need to fight against the tanks that are attacking them. But it's going to be a different situation when you look at Islamic

extremists in another part of the world. And we can't just say, well, we're going to go in with ground forces and think that this is about Iraq. This is not at all about Iraq, and so I think we've got to look at it in a totally different context.

SCIUTTO: Well, listen, as well as the Kurds are performing, the Iraqi national forces did not perform well. In fact, they faded away as ISIS was advancing. Can air strikes, limited air strikes in support of the Kurds in the north, truly do the job against ISIS in Iraq?

GABBARD: Well, we've got to top to monitor the situation and look at what will be the most effective tactical military strategy going forward.

You're right, the Iraqi military, what we saw, they gave up their weapons, they gave up their vehicles and they would not be good people for us to partner with in this fight against ISIS for many different reasons. And that's why previously I had opposed getting involved because it would have inserted us into this sectarian civil war, pitting us, making us choose between Shias or Sunnis, and that's not at all what the United States should be doing. That's a very different situation than what is occurring right now with the Kurds who are fighting against ISIS.

SCIUTTO: Let me, if I can, ask you about another international crisis -- there seem to be so many right now. But in Eastern Ukraine, the administration's response so far has been firm talk plus a gradual ratcheting up of economic sanctions against Russia. They have the Europeans on board now for some fairly painful sanctions, but there's grave concern among intelligence officials I talked to that Russia may do more, that they might send forces across the border.

Is that a concern, in your view? And do you believe that the Obama administration policy is working, that it is effectively deterring President Vladimir Putin?

GABBARD: I think as the sanctions continue to be ratcheted up, both by the United States and the European partners, I think that that is going to continue to cause more pain for Russia, but will it be enough to stop them from going over the border? I don't think so.

I think Russia knows that any time they want to roll their tanks across the bored into Ukraine, Ukraine does not have the capability to fight back. There is no way Ukraine can fight tank-to-tank. The United States should not mobilize our forces to fight that war for them.

So, again, I think we've got look at this in a very different perspective to say how can the people of Ukraine, the people of the Baltic states, people of Poland, and these other country who are feeling this threat from Russia, how can they respond in a way that will make an impact? They can fight back through unconventional means, both tactics and with unconventional weapons, basically guerilla warfare, and conduct an insurgency to cause pain to Russia and let them know that this will not -- this incursion in their country will not be acceptable. And we can accept that in these countries by providing them with some of these insurgent-type weapons and training that will make it possible for them to fight author their own countries.

SCIUTTO: Well, the challenges overseas now just seem endless. It's great to have your point of view. Thanks very much, Representative Tulsi Gabbard, joining us from Hawaii.

GABBARD: Thanks, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Well, ISIS is moving swiftly through Iraq, taking control of crucial cities and landmarks as they go. Could they turn their sights next on American targets?

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SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington where we continue to follow breaking and ominous news out of Iraq, where it is now overnight in Baghdad. Police officials there tell CNN that a significant number of security forces loyal to Iraqi's prime minister have been deployed in and around the green zone. And just breaking now, we are hearing from Iraqi police sources of Iraqi tanks taking positions in several Baghdad neighborhoods, particularly around Baghdad's green zone, where many official government buildings are, including the U.S. embassy, which now houses several hundred diplomats and U.S. military advisers.

This just the breaking news we are following. This all coming hours after Prime Minister Nouri al Maliki gave a defiant speech accusing Iraq's president of violating the constitution.

Joining me now, CNN military analyst and Lieutenant Colonel, Rick Francona. Now, Colonel, as you're watching this happening now, you have tanks deployed on the streets. This was supposed to be a peaceful political transition and negotiation. We are now seeing troops and tanks on the streets of Baghdad. What do you think is happening and how significant is this?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: I think your word was exactly right, Jim, ominous. You've got Nouri al Maliki refusing to step down; now he's mobilized not just security troops loyal to him but now he's mobilized army units to put tanks in the streets. Some of the bridges have been closed. It looks like he is trying to lock down the city in some sort of confrontation with the president.

So, this does not portend well. And, as you said, we've got all of our diplomats right there in that green zone.

SCIUTTO: We've seen the U.S. very publicly withdraw their support from Nouri al Maliki. The Deputy Assistant Secretary for Near Eastern Affairs, that's Brett McGuirk, tweeting this, this is the way it's done these days, but saying that the U.S. -- expressing American support for the Iraqi president, not for the Iraqi prime minister there. The U.S. has placed a lot of capital in the political process. The

president said this is really the key to stabilizing the country. In light of what we are seeing now, do you think they placed too much faith in the political process? And what should the U.S. do now?

FRANCONA: Yes, I think we probably misjudged Maliki. I thought, everybody -- most people thought that there would be this peaceful transition to the next government and he served for two terms. Now he's refusing to step down. He's done this. This looks very bad, like he's going to refuse to go.

So it looks like our assessment of Maliki was incorrect and now we've taken the other side. So what have we done? We've told Maliki that we're not going to support him, so now we are the bad guys. So if there is a confrontation there, we've go to worry about our own people there and then we've got to figure out what we're going to do up in the north. Are we going to continue our operations in support of the Kurds and part of this humanitarian effort?

So this puts us kind of in a really bad situation. What do we do next if Maliki wants to challenge the authority of the duly-elected Iraqi government?

SCIUTTO: This was a president who withdrew from Iraq, withdrew troops, wanted to be -- wanted the U.S. out of there and now finds himself in the middle of both a military battle against ISIS but also a political battle now inside the Iraqi government. Is the U.S. sort of indelibly back into Iraq?

FRANCONA: I think you're right. I think it's whether we want to or not, and I take the Congresswoman that you just had on, her words very carefully. She knows that we need to be focused on what our interests are and now we're being dragged back into internal Iraqi politics. Are we going to stand up and put more troops there is to defend the elected Iraqi government? Are we going to get involved the all? Is this going to turn into a civil war?

This is coming apart in front of our eyes and I don't think we're really prepared for this

SCIUTTO: Coming apart in front of our eyes in Iraq. Thanks very much, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Please stay with us. We will have a lot more right after this break.

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SCIUTTO: A few other stories we are keeping our eyes on right now -- a brand new cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. It is the middle of the night in Jerusalem and Gaza, exactly two and a half hours into the latest of a number of agreements meant to allow peace negotiations to proceed in Egypt. Cease-fires don't have a great history of success in this latest conflict. One of them a few days ago lasted less than two hours. You're seeing a live picture there now from Gaza City.

Moving on now to chaos in Ukraine. Secretary of State John Kerry is sending a strong warning to his Russian counterpart, Sergei Lavrov: Do not invade under the guise of peacekeeping. Meanwhile, in the heated Donetsk district, the self-proclaimed leader of pro-Russian force there says they would consider a humanitarian cease-fire to bring aid to civilians, but they are not ready to surrender territory.

And here at home, NASCAR star Tony Stewart pulled out of a ace today after he struck and killed a fellow driver during a race last night. Investigators are looking into the incident. The driver, identified as 20-year-old Kevin Ward, Jr., had gotten out of his car to confront Stewart following contact between their cars. Moments later, he was struck and killed while walking on the track.

Stay with CNN and CNN.com for the latest on the increasingly ominous situation in Iraq. For now, I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington. "CNN'S SPOTLIGHT: CHARLES MANSON" is right after this.

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