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Nancy Grace
Protests After Unarmed Teen Shot to Death by Police Officer
Aired August 12, 2014 - 20:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
NANCY GRACE, HOST: Breaking news tonight. Ferguson, Missouri, rocked by the shooting death of an unarmed black teen. Bombshell tonight. The
teen shot dead by police as the teen walks to his grandmother`s, witnesses insisting his hands up in the air when he is shot repeatedly by the
officer.
As we go to air tonight, police still refusing not only to release the name of the shooter but to even release the cop`s side of the story. Why?
We are not taking sides, but tonight, I want answers!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Tempers flare on the streets of Ferguson over the death of Michael Brown.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Their baby was executed in broad daylight!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whatever profile they set out, my son don`t fit the profile -- at all. He didn`t deserve none of this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: And tonight, nobody funnier than star comedian Robin Williams, from "Mork and Mindy" to "Mrs. Doubtfire," "Dead Poets Society," "Goodwill
Hunting," even voicing movies my 6-year-old twins love, "Aladdin," "Happy Feet." Tonight, the country and beyond mourning the death of beloved Robin
Williams, and this hour the investigation into his death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN WILLIAMS, ACTOR: Nanu nanu!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shocking death of Hollywood comedic legend Robin Williams.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Gone too soon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: That`s "Mork and Mindy" from Paramount Home Entertainment.
And then to Arizona. They meet on a work trip, but the flame burns out, and break up. It`s only then she moves 300 miles to chase him, even
converting to Mormonism to get her man. Twenty-seven-year-old Jodi Arias has wild sex with 30-year-old lover Travis Alexander all day, even
photographing the sex. But just minutes after sex, she slashes his throat ear to ear, shoots and stabs him 29 times, leaves his body to rot in his
own shower.
Tonight, as Jodi Arias`s retrial set to commence, she fires her lawyers, announcing she`ll represent herself. But in the last hour,
Arias`s lawyers ordered by the judge to at least sit at the table as she acts as her own lawyer, the lawyers begging, Please, judge, set me free
from Jodi Arias!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS, CHARGED WITH MURDER: I saw that there was blood on my hands.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Nine days out of ten, I don`t like Jodi Arias.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Good evening. I`m Nancy Grace. I want to thank you for being with us.
Bombshell tonight. Ferguson, Missouri, is rocked by the shooting death of an unarmed black teen, the teen shot dead by police as the teen
walks to his grandmother`s, witnesses insisting his hands up in the air when he is shot repeatedly by the officer.
In the last hours, even though we beg police ourselves, police refusing to release the name of the shooter or even give me a press
release. Tell me something! What is the cop`s side of the story? We are not taking sides tonight, but I want answers. The longer the cops wait,
the more nefarious it looks, the worse it looks. Why aren`t they releasing -- at least release a statement!
Joining me right now, special guest Ben Crump. He is representing the victim`s family. Ben, thank you so much for being with us.
BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY (via telephone): Thank you so much for having me, Nancy.
GRACE: Ben, first of all, I want to hear it from you. You`re representing Michael`s family. I want to hear their side of what happened
when he was shot down because the little bit that I`m getting doesn`t make sense to me. Something`s not fitting together. What do you understand
happened, Ben?
CRUMP: Nancy, as you were saying, you want answers. This family wants answers because what was told to them is totally contradictory of
anything they know about their child.
Michael was 18 years old. He had just graduated high school. In fact, yesterday, he would have started college. He had his whole life
ahead of him. He had never done anything violent anywhere in his history. And so as he`s walking open in a T-shirt, Nancy, shorts and flip-flops, he
is...
GRACE: OK, Ben. Stop. Stop, because you know this is making me think about John David He`s about to turn 7, and I can`t even imagine him
being gunned down on the street.
CRUMP: In broad daylight.
GRACE: I mean, Ben, even if -- and I`m not saying this happened -- but even if Michael started a fight with the cop -- even if -- you know
what? At least they should be giving a presser. This cop should be on administrative leave, paid or not paid. There should be a grand jury
investigation going down.
I mean, they work for me and you and all of us to protect and serve. I pay their salary. And I get it. They`re under siege. Everybody`s
always jumping on the cops. I get it. But we deserve at least a statement from them.
CRUMP: Absolutely. And that`s what is going on in Missouri. There is such distrust because they say, You`re not telling us anything. But yet
multiple witnesses saw this kid get shot in broad daylight, and yet you`re not telling the family anything at all.
And you`re trying to say it was justified, and the people in St. Louis, Missouri, are saying, But I saw the kid put his hands up in the air.
And this is so devastating to this family, Nancy. And I know this is emotional for who has children, when you think about it. But your child
walking home is unarmed. It`s clear he`s unarmed. Why would a trained police officer shoot him multiple times?
GRACE: You know, Ben, tell me -- pick it up. I understand he was walking with his friend. And they were walking in the middle of the street
going where?
CRUMP: They were headed from the store to his grandmother`s house. I mean, he got killed less than three blocks from his grandmother`s house.
And so now we`re dealing with the situation -- his grandmother on her way home then saw somebody on the ground, having no idea it was her grandson,
and came to find out her grandson...
GRACE: Oh, dear Lord!
CRUMP: ... who had never committed a crime or done anything was shot by the police dead in the street.
GRACE: I can`t even take in -- if my mother were to see one of her grandchildren laying dead in the street? OK, now, hold on, Ben. What I
don`t get is this. So he and his friend are walking home from the Quiktrip. They`re walking to the grandmother`s. This remind me a lot of
Trayvon Martin because he was walking, remember, to his father`s house, his father`s condo?
CRUMP: Yes, ma`am.
GRACE: OK, that`s the grandmother, I think right there, that we`re talking about. So OK, you lost me. He`s walking from the Quiktrip to the
grandmother`s. OK, what happened?
CRUMP: As we understand it, they`re crossing the street at a diagonal way because they`re headed towards the grandmother`s house. And instead of
crossing right straight across, it`s at a diagonal, Nancy.
So the police apparently says to them, Get out of the middle of the street. And they say, We`re getting out of the middle of the street. And
when they`re getting out of the middle of the street, they`re saying, We`re headed that way. He says, No, get out of the street now. And they say,
We`re getting out of the street. And some argument occurs. And then after that, then for reasons unknown...
GRACE: OK. Wait. Wa-wa-wa-wait. OK, everybody, you`re seeing video of Michael`s body covered at the scene of the cream. That`s from Reblock
(ph) TV and YouTube. Can you even imagine? Can you imagine coming and seeing your child or your grandchild laying in the street like that?
And again, if there was a confrontation and this teen was for some reason going for the cop`s gun, all right, I get it. I don`t like it, but
I get it. But the cops are not even -- even releasing a written statement about what happened.
OK, back to Ben Crump, special guest joining us.
CRUMP: (INAUDIBLE) anything because what they do know, there`s possible cell phone video out there. And I believe they`re delaying
intentionally releasing any information because this was a sunny Saturday afternoon. When this happened, a lot of people witnessed it. Now, one
young lady even says that they have her cell phone, and she believes she has the last part of what happened, with his hands up, on her phone.
And so what we want, what this community is crying out for is transparency so we`ll get the answers and we`ll know why a 18-year-old kid
who was supposed to start college yesterday is now having to have a second autopsy, while his mother and father decides what clothes they`re going to
put him in the casket in.
GRACE: You know, Ben, I didn`t want to even have my mind go there about deciding what to bury him in. You know, when my fiance was murdered,
he only had one suit, so we didn`t have to think about what he was going to be buried in -- just the way you just said that.
OK, Ben, again you`ve lost me, because you`re saying they`re walking home from the Quiktrip to his grandmother`s house, and they were walking at
a diagonal across the street to get to her home. And the cop -- the police officer says, Get on the sidewalk. And then all of a sudden -- you all of
a sudden -- you`re talking about cell phone video. What -- how do you go from, Get on the sidewalk, to the teen is dead? What happened in between
there? That`s the point where you`re losing me.
CRUMP: Apparently -- and we`ve made very careful not to talk to any witnesses directly, Nancy, but this is family version of witnesses who told
the family, because we don`t want to be accused of influencing witness testimony or tainting any witness testimony. So we are trying to make sure
that they talk to law enforcement officers.
But they don`t trust the St. Louis Police Department, so we have asked the federal Justice Department to interview these witnesses and take their
statements so they have no worry about being retaliated against or being intimidated after all the cameras and stuff leave their neighborhood.
With that said, they say the officer then came up on Michael, who was on his driver`s side of the car, at a high rate of speed. Apparently, they
weren`t moving fast enough out of the street for him. And then he went to open the door. And when he went to open the door, he opened it up on
Michael, and Michael pushed the door back closed. And the witness told family members that he then reached his hand through the window of the car
and grabbed Michael. And Michael was...
GRACE: That doesn`t make sense to me. How can a police officer reach through the car and grab somebody and hold him? Now, how does that work?
CRUMP: Well, no, he tried to grab him, and I think that`s part of it. Michael then struggled to get away from him. And it was almost -- when you
talk to the witness testimony, they can give it firsthand because I wasn`t there -- it was almost as if Michael -- it was like, Why are you grabbing
me? You know, What did I do wrong?
GRACE: You know, Ben...
CRUMP: And so Michael and his friend started to run. And for whatever reason, the police shoots. And that`s what the witness nor
anybody else understands, why did he start shooting at them? For what, jaywalking?
GRACE: With me is special guest that you all remember from the Trayvon Martin case, Ben Crump. He is representing Michael`s family in
this action.
Straight out to another special guest with us, Philip Holloway, former police officer and former prosecutor. Philip, this is the thing. You know
I`m typically on the police side. But at this point, something`s not right because they`re not -- they`re refusing to release the name of the shooter,
all right? If they think that`s for his safety, I can go along with it a little bit.
But what about the fact that nobody is even telling us, or their community? That`s who they work for. They work for the people in that
community. They may not feel like it sometimes. They may not feel supported at times. But that`s really who their boss is. The taxpayers
pay their salary, as they paid mine all the years I was a public servant.
Why aren`t they giving a statement of some sort to say what happened?
PHILIP HOLLOWAY, FORMER POLICE OFFICER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, you`ve got no argument from me, Nancy. They do work for the taxpayers.
They do work for the citizens. And ultimately, they do owe some answers.
But right now, in the earliest stages of this investigation, it`s critical that the police keep the investigation on track. They want to
make sure that the statement -- I guarantee you the officer has given a statement. He`s given one in writing. It`s been recorded and probably
videoed, as well...
GRACE: Well, Philip, I appreciate all of that, and I think you`re right that there has been a statement. But there has not been a statement
to the public or to Michael Brown`s family. At least tell his mother, tell his father, tell his grandmother what happened. Even if they disagree with
it, for Pete`s sake, give them an answer!
I tell you one thing. You gun down somebody in my family, you darn well better give me an answer, whether you are a cop or not!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An autopsy on Brown is now complete, but findings have not yet been made public.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
PROTESTERS: Justice!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want it?
PROTESTERS: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Circumstances surrounding his death are still in dispute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My son don`t have justice. We don`t have no peace. If he has no justice, we won`t get no peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never did we think we would be planning a funeral. We was waiting on his first day of school.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: We are taking your calls. The city, the town, the community of Ferguson rocked when a teen, unarmed, gunned down by a local cop.
What happened? We can`t get answers. In fact, police now refusing to even give out, release the name of the shooter. Why? Is there going to be
a grand jury investigation? Nobody knows. Is that cop still working the street? Nobody knows. Is he on paid leave, unpaid leave? Is he going to
be charged? Nobody knows.
The family of Michael Brown at least wants to hear what happened because witnesses are telling them that their son, and we have been told,
was shot in the chest and the head. Why? He had just been at a Quiktrip and was walking to his grandmother`s, ready to start college this fall.
I don`t understand it. I`m willing to hear what the police officer has to say, but why are they maintaining a shroud of secrecy? If it`s not
something bad, then why not tell us?
Straight out to Susan Candiotti, CNN national correspondent. Susan, what do you know?
SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, we`re getting different, as you point out, very different versions of what happened. We have heard a
little bit from the police chief on the first day that it happened, Nancy, but it isn`t much. All he says is that there was a physical confrontation,
and they accuse the teenager of trying to take away the officer`s gun from him. But that`s pretty much all we know, as well as that the officer was
on the force for about six years and he is on paid administrative leave right now.
But the other version from witnesses that have talked publicly were saying what Benjamin Crump was telling you, that the two boys were simply
crossing the street, stopped by a police officer and told to get out of the street. And then the police officer turns away and comes back when the
boys don`t immediately get out of the road.
That`s when a confrontation occurs. You heard him say the witnesses report that the boys were hit by the car door of the police officer. And
then the police officer, the teens say, reaches out to grab the teenager who was shot. He struggles to get away, is shot again, and winds up
falling 35 feet away from the -- only 35 feet away from the police car, and is shot several times as the witnesses say he had his hands up in the air,
Nancy.
GRACE: OK. Also with me today, in addition to CNN national correspondent Susan Candiotti, McGraw Milhaven, morning show host at KTRS.
McGraw, thank you for being with us.
How can we reconcile what the witnesses are telling Michael Brown`s family and the little tiny dribbles we`ve gotten from the police, which is
not much?
MCGRAW MILHAVEN, KTRS (via telephone): Well, thank you, first of all, Nancy, for having me on the show. Second of all, this is not like the
Trayvon Martin case at all. This police officer is not a glorified rent-a- cop or a mall cop. This is a professional police officer, six years on duty, who has an impeccable record, going up against a young man, 18 years
old, just graduated high school, with an impeccable record.
There are two versions of this story. One of them makes more sense than the other. We do not know. And the more we speculate, the more
trouble is out there. There`s never been a case that I know of, that I`ve followed, that I`ve been around, that I`ve watched in where more
disinformation has been put out on social media, on Twitter, on Facebook, and the whispering campaign going on.
I had one of the family`s lawyers on my show this morning, and he was critical of what the police have already said to the public, saying, Hey,
they got their story out first. That`s tampering with the witnesses. That is tampering with the jury. They need to sort of be quiet.
So the police -- you can`t blame the police for telling too much information and not telling enough. They are amassing information, and it
takes time. In fact, if you want to criticize the police at all, criticize them for not interviewing Dorian Johnson (ph), the friend of this Michael
Brown who was with him that day. They haven`t talked to him and they haven`t talked to the other witnesses.
GRACE: Why?
MILHAVEN: Now, we`re at day four...
GRACE: Hold on. Why?
MILHAVEN: So they should be talking to those people soon.
GRACE: Why, McGraw? Why haven`t they talked to the witnesses?
MILHAVEN: Well, the police have been busy for the last couple of days trying to put out fires at Quiktrips and trying to disperse...
GRACE: Hold on. Hold on.
MILHAVEN: ... the looters.
GRACE: I`ve worked on many, many, many homicide investigations, and it is very hard for me to believe that they don`t have time to interview
the witnesses. I don`t understand that.
MILHAVEN: Well, I will say that...
GRACE: Everybody, you`re seeing what McGraw is talking about right now. This is violence -- well, it`s not really violence. It`s a group of
people at the Quiktrip last night. They had to be dispersed with tear gas and rubber bullets. There you see what`s going on here in America, in
Ferguson, small town of Ferguson. This is what`s happening. And I want to know why.
So McGraw, you`re saying that they haven`t talked to witnesses because why?
MILHAVEN: I`m saying they haven`t talked to witnesses for two reasons. I say one, I think the police would tell you they`ve been busy
trying to quell the violence. Secondly, I think the witnesses will tell you that they`re a little skittish going to the police. They want
representation. They want to feel like they`re safe and they can tell their side of the story. And from what I understand, they are getting
their people, their lawyers in...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He wasn`t causing any harm to nobody. We had no weapons on us at all.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What some believe what an unprovoked attack on an unarmed teenager.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice, no peace!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Welcome back. The small town of Ferguson under siege right now after an unarmed youth gunned down by police. But was there a reason?
You`re seeing video of violence overnight at the local Quiktrip. This is happening now. And we want answers -- everything murky and confusing about
what happened, eyewitnesses stating the 18-year-old was gunned down, unarmed, after jaywalking across the street.
We are taking your calls. Lisa. Hi, Lisa. What`s your question?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi, Nancy and panel. Can I just ask, please, and say a quick comment? We`re living in the year 2014. And
unfortunately, racial issues still exist. I think this is the same as the Trayvon Martin case, which was not (ph) proved a racial issue.
GRACE: You know, I think that right now, everyone is searching for the truth, whether this is a racial issue or just a situation that got out
of control, or will the cop tell us something that justifies what happened? Joining me right now, John Gaskin, St. Louis County NAACP. John, thank you
for being with us. Tell me your take of what`s going on and is there a grand jury investigation going on?
JOHN GASKIN, ST. LOUIS COUNTY NAACP: Ms. Grace, thank you very much for having me this evening.
First of all, we hope that a grand jury investigation will take place. Like the young lady just asked a question, this is 2014. What`s going on?
What happened the other night is something that you would think would happen back in the `50s and the `60s. Folks on the ground are very upset.
The local NAACP is outraged as well as the national. And like you just mentioned, many of us are looking for answers. We`re demanding answers.
And we`re going to hold law enforcement accountable, very much so accountable. We need answers. This is unacceptable.
GRACE: So, Susan Candiotti, what is going to happen next? Is there a grand jury investigation? Are we going to at least hear the cop`s side of
the story?
CANDIOTTI: Nancy, I think we`d all like to think that a grand jury has been seated and they`re starting to interview people, but we don`t seem
to get those answers right now. We do know that the Justice Department is fully involved. They`ve announced it. They are going to run a parallel
investigation. We know according to one of the lawyers that one of these main witnesses we`ve just been talking about won`t talk to the local police
now. He`s saying he will only trust the FBI and the Justice Department.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: No one funnier than star comedian Robin Williams, from "Mork and Mindy" to "Mrs. Doubtfire," "Dead Poets Society," "Good Will Hunting,"
even voicing movies my twins love, "Aladdin" and "Happy Feet." Tonight, the country and beyond mourns the death of beloved star, Robin Williams,
and at this hour, the investigation into his death.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN WILLIAMS: Run for your life. The emotions are coming!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hollywood mourns yet another star. Robin Williams was found dead in his northern California home.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Genie, you`re free!
WILLIAMS: I`m free! I`m free!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Clip from Aladdin from Walt Disney Pictures. Straight out to Mark Cole. Robin Williams was his dying daughter`s make a wish. Mark,
thank you for being with us. This is part of Robin Williams that so few people know about. When your daughter wanted so much to meet him, he flew
all the way to see her when she became too weak to go and visit him in Hollywood. Tell us what happened when he visited your daughter.
MARK COLE: Oh, it was great. They only gave us like 24 hours` notice. He wanted complete privacy with that. And he only wanted our
immediate family with my older daughter, Tanya. And mother was there and that was it. And he flew in and had a car pick him up at the airport and
arrived. And my daughter didn`t really recognize him when he first came in and started doing his Mrs. Doubtfire routine. And they watched Carolina
Panther football. She taught him how to play her favorite card game, which was secret seven. She was better than him, too.
GRACE: It`s amazing to me that this big star, Robin Williams, cared so much about your daughter. What was her ailment? Was she suffering from
cancer?
COLE: Yes. She had a brain tumor. She passed away a few weeks after he visited.
GRACE: I know. I knew that. That he didn`t want the spotlight, he didn`t want the good wishes and to be written up in the gossip columns for
doing this for her. He wanted to do it to make someone else happy. And it just amazes me that if I didn`t personally know about you and know about
your daughter, I would never have known that Robin Williams did this. He never publicized it. Nothing. In fact, he insisted that it be kept, no
press, just your family, right?
COLE: That`s correct.
GRACE: You know, what`s so upsetting, unleash Brad Lamm, also joining us, Howard Samuels, Dr. Samuels, Brad addiction specialist, founder of
Breathe Life Healing Centers. And Howard Samuels, addiction expert, CEO of the Hills Treatment Center, author of "Alive Again." Gentlemen, thank you
for being with us.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, Nancy.
GRACE: You know, what`s so hurtful in his death, and we believe it is a suicide. The death investigation is ongoing. Brad, he did so much to
make everyone else happy. But no one could save Robin Williams.
LAMM: It seems it`s the classic case of a person who is laughing on the outside, who just made everybody so full of joy and connected, and was
really in pain and despair ultimately on the inside. For so many people who struggle with addiction, depression, anxiety, chief complaints.
GRACE: You know, to Dr. Howard Samuels, also with us Brad Lamm, Howard, it`s very upsetting to me when I hear people say, oh, Robin
Williams, he was in rehab in the last weeks, he had an addiction problem. What`s easy to forget, or maybe people don`t know, when you suffer from
chronic depression, it is so overwhelming. It takes over your life. And very often people that have depression will self-medicate to get away from
the depression.
SAMUELS: Well, you know, absolutely. The problem here is that there`s two definite issues. There`s the alcoholism, and then there`s the
serious chemical imbalance in the brain that is creating the depression. Well, obviously he went to Hazelton. We don`t know if he was drinking or
if he had relapsed. The good move he went to Hazelton for help in July to stabilize himself. But the problem was that I feel he should have stayed
at Hazelton. Because the depression was not stabilized. The depression for whatever reason hit such a bottom for him that he had to take his own
life. And we don`t know today whether or not he was drinking in the last few days or not, which is going to be very interesting to find out.
GRACE: Brad Lamm, another thing is, people somehow blame the person that commits suicide. No! They are at such a horrible moment in their
life. And having worked on the hotline at the battered women center, I had worked with so many women who were at the point where they wanted to just
kill themselves, just to end the pain that they`re in. And you can look at them on the outside and say, he`s handsome. He`s rich. He`s famous. What
does he have to be sad about? That`s not what depression is about.
LAMM: And Nancy, you know I`ve been clean and sober a dozen years. And at times, during that period, I have fallen into depressions where I
thought the only way to get better was to take my life. So the despair that enters into the life of the family when somebody struggles with it,
with depression, is so heavy. It`s like a wet blanket falling on the family. It`s another wake-up call we get from time to time with celebrity
headlines when it draws attention to families to talk about and really treat depression.
GRACE: To Kim Serafin, senior editor "In Touch Weekly." Kim, how was Robin Williams found?
SERAFIN: It`s just -- it`s so sad. I think everyone hearing this press conference today was shocked. Because when you first heard about it
yesterday, you thought maybe it`s an accident. Maybe he did something accidentally. But actually, they found him. His assistant actually found
him in his bedroom or in a bedroom in his house. They tried knocking. He tried knocking on the door -- apparently the assistant tried knocking on
the door, didn`t hear from Robin Williams. So then went into the bedroom, found him. It was his wife actually that saw him last on Sunday night.
She went out shopping. So he was by himself. But it was his assistant that actually found him.
GRACE: To Dr. William Morrone, medical examiner, forensic pathologist and toxicologist. Dr. Morrone, I don`t understand how you asphyxiate in
that manner, what, sitting in a chair. I don`t understand how that happens.
MORRONE: Asphyxia is severely deficient oxygen. What he did was, he put a belt around his throat, and it tightened when he leaned forward. And
the belt was anchored behind him. So it was a strangulation that was slow. Decreasing his oxygen, not the fast hanging, not the break your neck
hanging, not the 18th century hanging in the prison system. This was a very slow, deliberate act. And it was a staged, choreographed suicide,
which says how sad he felt at that time. The failure of the American medical system is profound here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GRACE: And now to Mesa, Arizona as Jodi Arias`s retrial set to commence. She fires her lawyers, announcing she`ll represent herself. In
the last hours, Arias`s lawyers ordered by the judge to at least sit at the table while Jodi Arias acts as her own lawyer. The defense lawyer begging,
please, judge, set me free from Jodi Arias!
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODI ARIAS: I want them to have the closure and be at peace.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Samantha, Travis is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Steven, Travis is dead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I never meant to cause them so much pain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Images of our poor brother`s throat slit ear to ear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I thought my brother was bulletproof.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GRACE: Straight to Brian Skoloff, author of "The Killer Girlfriend: The Jodi Arias Story." Why is she so hell-bent on representing herself?
SKOLOFF: She`s had a fractured relationship with her defense attorneys from day one, when she started giving media interviews after her
conviction against their advice. It has come to a point where Jodi apparently feels like she can defend herself better than her own defense
attorneys.
GRACE: I just can`t wait, Brian Skoloff, author of "Killer Girlfriend: Jodi Arias Story." Unleash the lawyers, joining me out of
Atlanta, Trinity Hundredmark, defense attorney. Out of New York, Robert Schalk, also a veteran defense attorney. First to you, Trinity
Hundredmark, I always loved it when I was prosecuting. And I wouldn`t look, but I could see from my peripheral vision the defense lawyer and the
defendant fighting. Kind of whispering and motioning. I just love it. Because that would mean that the defendant was not doing what the lawyer
was trying to tell him or her to do. And it would end in disaster. So what is going through (inaudible) the mind, the defense lawyer. He begged
the judge, please, please, let me go. The judge won`t let him go.
HUNDREDMARK: No, clearly the judge won`t. I think the judge has an interest in this to make sure that this case stands on appeal, and that`s
what he is trying to do. To make sure he hasn`t done anything and she has some counsel going through. But Nancy, she is crazy like a fox. This may
actually serve her well. She may actually garner some sympathy that she doesn`t know what she is doing, and she may save her life. I am not sure
it`s a bad decision on her part, but I can certainly understand the attorneys wanting to get out of there. She`s clearly narcissistic, and
only Jodi knows best.
GRACE: Robert Schalk, narcissistic is likely the tip of the iceberg. How badly do you -- come on, you`re not in court in front of a jury right
now. You don`t have to lie.
SCHALK: Never, never.
GRACE: She murdered, she has wild sex with Travis, all day long. Photographing it. Then slits his throat from ear to ear. In a horrific
smiley face, right under the neck. How do you think she`s treating the -- that was her lover. How do you think she`s treating her defense lawyer?
SCHALK: Oh, like garbage. I feel for these two individuals. It is abundantly clear they dislike each other. And I feel for Kurt Normly (ph),
the judge will make him sit there for God knows how much longer. The first trial took six months.
But the problem for Jodi Arias is this, she will have to pick her own jury. And that jury in turn will decide whether she gets life in jail or
she dies. But the problem she`s going to have is, she`s not an experienced lawyer. She doesn`t know who to pick. She doesn`t know who`s best. And
if she picks the wrong jury, it is going to be to her detriment. And at this point in time, she is not going to know when to object. She`s not
going to know how to put the evidence in. And if she annoys that jury, she is not going to garner any sympathy whatsoever from them.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
GRACE: Okay, you know, that`s when Jodi Arias won "American Idol." Behind bars.
To Judy Ho, it`s just come to my -- she is a little too loud in my ear. I`ve heard Arias singing before. Judy Ho, psychologist L.A., it has
just come to my attention that Arias is actually auctioning off the glasses she wore at trial on Twitter. Thoughts?
HO: Well, Nancy, I know you guys already talked about her being a narcissus. But like you said, this is the tip of the iceberg for Jodi.
She really thinks she is higher than every other human being that exists, if she thinks that she can, from her GED that she got while she was in
jail, now go and represent herself. But the problem here is, if you become sympathetic to this individual through this extended trial time with her,
even if one juror is influenced, that could change her sentencing. It is a lot harder to kill someone you know.
GRACE: You know, you`re right. Someone you feel you know. Unleash the lawyers. Trinity Hundredmark, Atlanta. Robert Schalk, New York.
Here`s the deal, Trinity Hundredmark, what you and Schalk don`t want to tell the viewers, is that by representing herself, she gets a little more
privileges. And Sheriff Arpaio has brought this up. The reality is that she will get to interview witnesses. She gets more time in the law
library. She gets a lot more freedom, because she is her own lawyer. That`s one of the reasons she`s doing this. She`s working the system,
Trinity.
HUNDREDMARK: That is like I said, she`s crazy like a fox. I think she knows what she`s doing. Listen, she has watched her trial. She sat
there for five months. I think she knows a lot more than we have given her credit for. I think she is going to do okay. All she is doing right now
is trying to save her life. She isn`t trying to win, she is just trying to save her life. She just got to get one person to do it.
GRACE: Sadly, Trinity Hundredmark, this is not one of those situations where you can say, what`s the worst that can happen? The death
penalty.
SCHALK: No question. As Trinity points out, though, she only needs to convince 1 of the 12 people that have sympathy for her and to rule not
to give her the death penalty, and she will only get life in prison. However, as we said earlier, she will have to question all these witnesses,
marshal all that evidence, and if she is constantly muddling the record and screwing up in court, who is going to feel sympathy for her?
GRACE: Everyone, let`s stop and remember, American hero, Army Sergeant, James Healy, 25. Esperia (ph), California. Army Commendation
Medal. Loved Star Wars, drawing art and comic strips. Parents Timothy and Linda, brother, Ian. Widow and high school sweetheart, Shanna. Son,
Wyatt. James Healy, American hero.
Tonight a special good night from New York, right here in the studio, Aliana (ph), isn`t she beautiful? Everyone, thank you for being with us.
Drew is up next. I`ll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp Eastern. And until then, good night, friend.
END
