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Iraqi Prime Minister Refuses To Step Down; Refugees Seek Safety On Iraq Border; Police Won't Name Cop Who Shot Brown

Aired August 13, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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CAROL COSTELLO, CNN ANCHOR: Happening now in the NEWSROOM, mission creep in Iraq. An aid helicopter crashes as desperate refugees tried to board. Will this force the U.S. to do more?

Also, another police-involved shooting in Ferguson as police continue to withhold informing in Michael Brown's death.

Plus, tit for tat in Red Skins nation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I feel proud to be a Red Skin.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Red Skin, it's a powerful name. It's a warrior name.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Skins owner, Daniel Snyder, fighting back with propaganda of his own.

And --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LAUREN BACALL: You just put your lips together and blow.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COSTELLO: Hollywood stunned as it says goodbye to another legend. Let's talk live in the CNN NEWSROOM.

Good morning. I'm Carol Costello. Thank you so much for joining me. We begin in Iraq and the news this morning that the United States is considering air evacuations for the thousands of refugees stranded by ISIS militants, raising again that question if Americans will soon have boots on the ground in Iraq.

Right now some 130 additional advisers, Marines, and special ops forces are in the country and may help in those evacuations. It comes as Prime Minister Nuri Al-Maliki vows to fight to remain in power, levelling sharp criticism today of those who want him to step aside.

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NURI AL-MALIKI, IRAQI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We're holding on to our stance because this is a conspiracy being weaved from the inside and from the outside. It is very dangerous.

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COSTELLO: In the meantime, the United States has completed six air drops to the Yazidis threatened by ISIS militants. Nearly 100,000 meals and more than 27,000 gallons of water have now been delivered and the border between Iraq and Syria has become a refuge of sorts for those refugees, some of them walking 15 hours in a desperate bid to find safety and escape ISIS' brutality.

CNN's Anna Coren is there. Anna, tell us what's going on, on the ground.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Carol, that wave of humanity we saw coming out of Syria yesterday in Ivan Watson's report, thousands of those people have descended to this U.N. camp, which as you can see over my shoulder is hastily being constructed.

Workers are trying to erect tents for the hundreds of families that have come here escaping persecution, genocide from the ISIS militants. These are the people that were stuck on Mt. Sinjar. They were up there for days without food, without water, without shelter.

And it was only thanks to the Peshmerga, the Kurdish forces that managed to create a safe passage off the mountain that allowed them to get down. They have walked the whole way and they have walked the whole way here. It has taken days. They are now here.

They are thirsty, they are hungry and they are in need of help. Carol, these people are saying what is our future? Where are we going to go? We can't go home because we will be killed and executed. Who is going to take us?

They don't feel like Iraq is any longer their home, so they are calling on Europe to take them, you know, give them asylum. They are pleading with the international community to rescue them. That is fundamentally what they are saying. Please rescue us.

The governor who controls this whole area and is in charge of this operation, you know, he is saying this is not just a humanitarian crisis, it is a catastrophe and he points out -- singles, I should say, the United Nations and the international community as failing the Yazidis.

He said we are trying to save the oldest religion on earth, where is the help, where are the people to help these persecuted minority -- Carol.

COSTELLO: Anna, if your photographer could pull out so we can see the tents being set up for these families. COREN: Yes, of course. I'll have our cameraman to have a shot of these tents that are being constructed. This is something that's taking place over a matter of hours. When we got here, though, which has a dozen tents,

Now as you can see, in the next couple of days, that hillside, which the bulldozers have been levelling will be filled with tents. We went down to that river crossing from Syria and a stream of refugees had dried up, but according to the governor, they are expecting tens of thousands of more Yazidis to make the crossing here into Kurdistan to seek safety.

There is another camp set up several hundred meters that way for the Christians who fled Mosul when the ISIS militants moved in, in June. The governor said we weren't expecting this exodus, just this wave of Yazidis to arrive, they weren't prepared. Which is why he's calling on the international community to get here and to provide the assistance that is so desperately needed -- Carol.

COSTELLO: All right, Anna Coren reporting live from Northern Iraq, this morning. So in light of that catastrophe, no American boots on the ground, but as I told you, the U.S. now considering conducting air evacuations. What does that mean? An American force on the ground to protect those aircraft as they land to pick up those desperate refugees.

Jim Sciutto is live in Washington to parse this out for us. Good morning, Jim.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Carol. You're right. This would be a massive, a significant air operation. There are still thousands of Yazidis stranded on top that Mt. Sinjar. The U.S. apparently had considered a ground operation to evacuate them.

But made a judgment that one, it would take too long. It would also put the refugees at a greater personal risk. Now they are looking at an air operation, but as you mention, to carry something like this out, that would require boots on the ground.

They are not being called combat forces, but there would be soldiers on the ground, and we're told, CNN is told that first there would be soldiers who would go to the top of the mountain to assess the situation, see what the needs are, and make a plan.

If the air evacuation was ordered by the president, you would then need soldiers on the ground on the mountain to coordinate, also at a nearby air field to coordinate as well. So this is, Carol, yet another step forward in U.S. military involvement in Iraq.

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SCIUTTO (voice-over): Here, the aftermath of a devastating U.S. air strike on ISIS fighters in Northern Iraq. The Obama administration insists attacks from the air like this one are the limit of America's combat role in Iraq. But several veteran Iraq commanders we interviewed say mission creep is inevitable.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is the first toe in the water and eventually this administration will have to confront how to destroy this Islamic State.

SCIUTTO (on camera): When you look at the capabilities or rather the lack of capabilities of the Iraqi military, the U.S. is going to have to be more involved going forward. Do you think that's a reasonable assessment?

GENERAL JAMES WILLIAMS, U.S. MARINE CORP. (RETIRED): You need an organization, whether it's United States or coalition forces have come in and provide them with professional military advice, and eventually, if U.S. forces are not on the ground, I don't see how we're going to keep ISIS at bay.

SCIUTTO (voice-over): For now, the administration has defined U.S. objectives very narrowly. One, protect tens of thousands of members of Iraq's Yazidi minority from an impending massacre and two protect hundreds of American diplomats and military advisers stationed in Erbil and Baghdad. However, even the Pentagon concedes those goals as strictly defined do not address ISIS itself.

LT. GENERAL WILLIAM MAYVILLE JR., DIRECTOR OF OPS FOR JOINT CHIEFS: These strikes are unlikely to affect ISIL's overall capabilities or its operations in other areas of Iraq and Syria.

SCIUTTO: In fact, since the president first announced U.S. military action last Thursday, the U.S. has already expanded its military support. Sending weaponry to Kurdish forces and now increasing the number of U.S. military advisers on the ground.

Secretary of State John Kerry categorically ruled out U.S. ground troops, though, crucially he set the stage for further military support for Iraq's new government.

JOHN KERRY, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: The U.S. does stand ready to fully support a new and inclusive Iraqi government, particularly in its fight against ISIL.

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SCIUTTO: The U.S. has gradually almost daily been adding military steps in Iraq. You have at this point nearly a thousand U.S. military advisers there, with 130 added just yesterday. You've had six humanitarian air drops, multiple air strikes.

You now have a mass air evacuation under consideration, and the administration as Secretary of State John Kerry said there considering its aid going forward to the new government and Carol, that's what hasn't been defined yet.

After you accomplish this humanitarian mission, you protect U.S. personnel, will the U.S. help Iraqi forces push back ISIS, a task that they frankly haven't been up to. What will that support be defined as? That's still an open question. COSTELLO: Jim Sciutto reporting live from Washington. Thank you.

Let's talk about the Kurds in light of all this. The Kurds, a semi- autonomous ethnic group within Iraq. The Kurds are battling ISIS. The Kurdish military has long protected Christian and other minority groups within Iraq and it continues to do that increasingly difficult task.

It would certainly welcome mission creep. It needs weapons and ammo and perhaps manpower to overcome a vicious well organized ISIS. Karwan Zebari, the director of the Kurdistan Regional Government Mission, he joins me now. Welcome, sir.

KARWAN ZEBARI, DIRECTOR, KURDISTAN REGIONAL GOVERNMENT MISSOURI: Glad to be with you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Can the Kurdish and Iraqi military defeat ISIS without American boots on the ground?

ZEBARI: I think we can. I think with the right intelligence and continued superiority over the air, the Peshmerga forces beefed up properly by the U.S. and our partners in Europe, we can carry out the fight and we can take -- repel ISIS advances and put them back and eliminate them where they have come from.

COSTELLO: The United States is sending 130 more military advisers. How will they help the Kurdish military?

ZEBARI: Well, a lot of this -- what's going to happen is ISIS, we are already getting reports that ISIS is moving into towns and hiding into populations. They know the air strikes are coming their way. What this will be doing, these advisers they will provide better intelligence from both the air and on the ground.

But the Peshmerga forces will take the authority over this and they will carry out the ground incursion and advances. Notice we have gone from defensive into offensive and we are determined to protecting our people, our land, and the areas that they have captured to take back.

COSTELLO: You say that the members of this ISIS terrorist group are now hiding among the population. That's a scary development.

ZEBARI: It is and as that's the next phase of this, once these air strikes stop, hopefully they will continue, but eventually we'll have to go into these towns and fight street by street and block by block to get rid of ISIS, and get them out of those because this is going to get nastier and nastier by the minute.

COSTELLO: I know France is now promising to supply weapons to the Kurds and I know Kurdish representatives have requested the same of the United States. What do they need?

ZEBARI: Well, we do know after the collapse of Mosul and Fouri Iraqi security forces divisions, the ISIS got their hands on Iraq heavy equipment tanks artillery Humvees. We know they have been firing at these tanks and Humvees and nothing is piercing. We're unable to penetrate these ranks.

What should have to happen and what's got to happen is that the Peshmergas be properly equipped to carry out these attacks and stop this momentum and eventually go on offensive and eliminate them where they have come from.

COSTELLO: How do you see this ending?

ZEBARI: Quite frankly, we're not seeing this ending any time soon. This is a virus. They are very strong. They are very capable. They are organized and they are self-sufficient, and they have got a lot of folks in the Western Iraq, from within the Sunni community helping them.

The Sunnis have to be convinced to stop helping them and we will have to go at a full throttle, full force to taking these guys out. They are not just going to disappear overnight. They are there, they are determined to carry the fight and they don't quite frankly if they are killed or eliminated.

COSTELLO: Karwan Zebari, Director of the Kurdistan Regional Government Mission, thank you so much for joining me this morning. I appreciate it.

ZEBARI: Glad to be with you, Carol.

COSTELLO: Still to come in the NEWSROOM, protesters demand to know the identity of the cop who fatally shot an unarmed African-American teenager. Police say they will not release that name at least not yet. Tell you why when we come back.

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COSTELLO: Violence again exploding overnight in the St. Louis suburb of Ferguson, protesters returned to the streets again and officers used tear gas to calm the crowd.

A short time later, in a neighborhood just outside of Ferguson, an officer shoots and critically injures a suspect, who allegedly had pulled a gun on him. This is all over the decision by Ferguson police to not name the officer who shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown.

Authorities say they will not disclose that name because of death threats. Brown's friend who witnessed the shooting tells CNN that Brown had put his hands in the air, but he was still shot multiple times.

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DORIAN JOHNSON, MICHAEL BROWN'S FRIEND: We were both unarmed, sir. We didn't have a sharp object on us. Nothing, I didn't even have pockets on my shorts that I had on, and we had nothing on us, no. The police did not interview me at the scene. It was almost like he wasn't paying attention to me anymore. It was like he was in shock himself, and his vision wasn't on anything but my friend, Big Mike.

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COSTELLO: The shooting of Michael Brown and what has followed, some say is reminiscent of what we saw in Stanford, Florida, in 2012 when another black teenager, Trayvon Martin, was gunned down. It's hitting close to home not just in Ferguson but across the country.

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CORNELL WILLIAM BROOKS, PRESIDENT AND CEO, NAACP: I believe the Trayvon Martin case is a prolonged to a sad national narrative where we have young people who are accused of underwhelmingly minor offenses who are met with an a major, overwhelming, sometimes lethal use of force.

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COSTELLO: The attorney for both Trayvon Martin's family and now Michael Brown's family says, of course, there is one major difference. Martin was killed by a resident on a neighborwood watch. Brown died at the hands of police.

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BENJAMIN CRUMP, BROWN FAMILY ATTORNEY: Trayvon was shot once, but as we understand from these witnesses, this child was shot multiple times, and left on the ground like a dog.

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COSTELLO: And like in the Trayvon Martin case, President Obama and Brown's parents are calling for calm. Let's talk about this, with me now CNN's senior media correspondent and host of "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter, and Boyce Watkins, a social commentator who advocates for education, economic empowerment and social justice, and also joining us, CNN'S Ana Cabrera in Ferguson, Missouri. Welcome to all of you.

Ana, I want to start with you, do you hear Trayvon Martin's name a lot in Ferguson?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: We aren't hearing it a lot, but it has been brought up. We've seen similarities to both cases, in these situations, in one -- who was involved and the response after that both were unarmed black teenagers that were killed.

And there have been questions raised in both situations about whether these young men were killed because of their race or whether the shooting was indeed justified.

Now, there are also some big differences, Carol. As you mentioned, in Trayvon Martin's case he was killed by a neighborhood watch organizer, a resident in his community. In this case, the death was at the hands of a police officer.

We also know there were differences in what happened, what led up to this shooting. In Trayvon Martin's case it was a situation that unfolded over a longer duration of time. We heard phone calls in which he was on the phone with a young woman named Rachel and describing he was being followed.

It was a longer, drawn-out situation. Where here witnesses tell us everything happened very quickly from the time officers confronted Michael Brown and his friend who were walking in the street to the time Michael Brown was actually killed, shot several times we now know.

Also, the response from the national federal investigators to each scene was different. In Trayvon Martin's case, it took much longer for there to be a response at the federal level.

COSTELLO: Right. Right.

CABRERA: After the investigators in the community had lost confidence or the public had lost confidence in them. In this case --

COSTELLO: Brian and I were just talking about how quickly the U.S. Justice Department responded and also the NAACP.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: That's right. In the Trayvon Martin case, it took weeks before it gained national media attention partly because of people like Al Sharpton who went to that community. In this case, Al Sharpton has come there, but days after the national media had already arrived.

The Trayvon Martin case was about our relationship with individuals. This is about our relationship with the state because it's a police force, and I do think there's different story lines that are coming out of this case as well.

One is the militarization of police forces across the country. The weapons and the gear and the ammo and the camo, they wear and use, that of course didn't come up during the Trayvon Martin case.

COSTELLO: That's an interesting thing. We'll talk about that in just a minute. I wanted to ask you in light of what happened with Trayvon Martin, is there a danger of a rush to judgment in this case. We really dent know the police side of the story, at least the full story yet.

BOYCE WATKINS, FOUNDER, YOURBLACKWORLD.COM: Well, the problem is that the police side of the story isn't getting out there because the police aren't really talking. I think that they are accustomed to operating with impunity and believe that they are above the law and I say this as a person who respects good law enforcement.

My dad was a cop for 25 years. But the fact of the matter is there are a lot of cops who believe that there are certain people that they do not have to respect. If you look at the way they handled the Mike Brown shooting, the way they didn't interview certain witnesses, the way they felt they didn't have to answer to anybody, I mean, this is consistent across the country.

This happened in Ferguson, yes, this is a flash bulb, but this is in every city in America. I live in Chicago. It happens every single week. Until police learn that every life is valuable and everyone deserves respect that you cannot just operate as if you are above the law, this will continue to happen and we've got a serious problems on our hands.

COSTELLO: In fairness, I talked with the former LAPD Chief, he was chief during the Rodney King incident. He said it would be dangerous for police to release the officer's name because the officer is getting death threats, already. They are protecting him, in other words.

WATKINS: I'm not going to disagree with that. I don't think that the officer's name matters as much as the name of that police department. I mean, if you look at just the data on the Ferguson Police Department, you see that they are a majority black community that has a very small minority of African-American officers.

So that shows right there that they are not really interested in community policing and working with the community. They are running a police state. That's apartheid. That's a situation where you've got these white officers that are going through black communities that they do not understand and keeping people in their place.

That's not an effective way to do policing. It's not so much a matter of what the officer's name is, not about chasing him down and putting his life inspect jeopardy. Maybe it was an honest mistake. Maybe he was responding to his training, who knows?

I think that we have to look at this in the broader scope and understand that this is a problem that has consistently happened all across the country, all throughout time, and we got to deal with it at the root. Not just focus on one specific officer.

STELTER: And that's why this is a bigger story in some ways than the tragic case of Trayvon Martin. One big difference is that we knew the suspect right away, George Zimmerman. In this case, we don't know the name and it's become a bigger story. The similarities are misinformation.

We are seeing misinformation online, spreading just as we did in the Trayvon Martin case. I saw some people, some commenters online saying that Mike Brown had an arrest record, had felonies to his name. None of that is true. But that misinformation spreads sometimes because there's a vacuum of correct information.

COSTELLO: And I want to get Ana Cabrera in here. The police would say that the show of force is necessary in Ferguson. The FAA instituted a no-fly zone over the area because supposedly someone was shooting at police helicopters.

CABRERA: There's a very real sense of security problems here in Ferguson right now because there are large groups of people who are very angry, very motivated and very impassioned in the way they feel about this whole situation. I do want to make a point about that issue of why this police officer's name has not been released. It's not just because of the safety concerns, but also because we have to remember this police officer has not been charged with a crime, so when you compare it to other cases in which there are a death of somebody, usually we do hear the name of the suspect in that killing, but that is after the suspect has been charged.

In this case, we're told we will learn the police officers name if and when he is charged. Otherwise, we may not learn his name.

STELTER: It has to leak out. It has to leak out.

COSTELLO: I would think that would be said because I think the public has a right to know the police officer's name, the guy who was involved in this incident that has inflamed this neighborhood. Does anyone want to take that on?

CABRERA: I think that's what we're -- that is what we're hearing here in the community. That is part of the outrage that people are saying if they release the name of this officer, that would at least prove that they are trying to be transparent.

That was the first question, that was asked at this community forum that I went last night inside a church with hundreds of community members who turn out and they asked that question first thing because they say we want to know who the key players are. We know who died, but we don't know who the killer is.

COSTELLO: All right. I have to wrap it up there. Go ahead. Go ahead.

WATKINS: I was going to say that I think releasing the officer's name certainly would be a communication of transparency. Also the same way you are investigating Mike Brown's history, you can investigate the officer's history because he may be the bigger criminal in all of this, and I think -- but the bottom line is that --

STELTER: The name will come out. In the meantime, you shouldn't be too distracted from getting the other facts what happened that day. Why was that body there for hours? All those journalistic questions that we still don't have answers to.

COSTELLO: Absolutely. Brian Stelter, Boyce Watkins, Ana Cabrera, thanks to all of you. I'll be right back.

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