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More U.S. Forces in Iraq?; Cease-Fire Broken in Israel?

Aired August 13, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Top of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Rescue mission or mission creep? The U.S. right now is considering sending in Americans to help rescue up to some 20,000 people trapped on top of this mountain in Northern Iraq. There is no question they need help, they are starving, they are dying. It is scorching hot this time of year there in Northern Iraq.

The Yazidis were forced there by the brutal surge of ISIS fighters, but what exactly is the role of the United States in helping them? Right now, 129 more U.S. military advisers arrived in nearby Irbil today. But let's be crystal clear.

The people they would be sending into this rescue mission, whether it's on the ground, or by air, on, say, a helicopter, they are American troops. But as Washington will be quick to remind us, they will not be in a -- quote, unquote -- "combat role."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE HARF, SPOKESWOMAN, STATE DEPARTMENT: Well, let's be clear about what these 130 advisers will and will not be doing. They are focused squarely on looking at the humanitarian situation on Mount Sinjar and developing options to potentially move people and relocate people safely from the mountain.

As we know, dropping food and water is not a long-term solution for the tens of thousands of people on that mountain. So these U.S. military personnel that have just gone in are assessing the best way to bring these people to safety, whether that's some sort of airlift, whether that's a humanitarian corridor. They're looking at the options, they will present them to the president, and then he will make decisions about how the best way that we can help do that will be.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Joining me from Washington, Kimberly Dozier, CNN global affairs analyst, and from Hanover, New Hampshire, Daniel Benjamin, former U.S. ambassador at large and coordinator for counterterrorism.

Welcome to you both.

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Good to be here. BALDWIN: Kimberly Dozier, let me just begin with you.

Kimberly, tell me about these special operations being considered.

DOZIER: Well, yes, it's a humanitarian mission. But any time you deploy Marines and special operations forces in this kind of environment, they're also gathering intelligence and they're helping the forces they're working with be more effective at their job.

If you want to get thousands of people off a mountain in a remote location, you need to know what are the best access routes off that mountain and where your Kurdish forces or any other forces you can use are deployed on the ground.

You need to be able to warn those forces, too, hey, we see ISIS fighters trying to flank you on the south side. Move. Fight back. They're going to be doing that. But they're also going to be with every commander they're working with, every unit, gathering intelligence on just how good are these guys at doing this job, do they need more help.

BALDWIN: Talking to a general last hour, he said without a doubt you need the intelligence on the ground to be able to get in and to rescue these people on top of the mountain. And this is just one example of all around Northern Iraq where these people -- where you have these refugees.

Mr. Ambassador, let me just broaden this out, sort of bigger picture with you, because you say these airstrikes, these U.S. airstrikes, may increase ISIS interest in American targets here, but that shouldn't be overstated. Explain.

DANIEL BENJAMIN, FORMER STATE DEPARTMENT COORDINATOR FOR COUNTERTERRORISM: Well, that's correct.

First of all, this is a very important mission. The United States is committed to preventing genocide. And so this is very much the right thing to do. And I don't think we should be pulling punches because we're worried about the possibility of some terrorist attack some time in the future.

I also think that there's an awful lot of hair on fire in Washington, and in the press, regarding ISIS, about the possibility that it's going to be the next al Qaeda-type threat to the United States. And I think that there is a long-term threat there, and there is a large safe haven that has opened up. But this is a group that's been overwhelming focused on an insurgency on the ground in Iraq and it really has very little experience right now in terms of carrying out complicated terrorist operations.

So there are a lot of foreigners who are involved. They could go back to their countries and carry out low-level violent attacks with guns, with small bombs, with knives, things like that. But this is not a group that right now is capable of carrying out a really catastrophic attack. BALDWIN: So just so I'm hearing you clearly, despite the fact they're

beheading children and incredibly brutal all the way around, there is no -- as far as a thirst level for retaliation, if you will, there is not an imminent threat to the U.S.?

BENJAMIN: I don't think there is an imminent large-scale threat. So we can't rule out the possibility that one person who has fought with ISIS would come back or two or three would come back and try to do a low-level attack.

BALDWIN: Like a lone wolf.

BENJAMIN: Like a lone wolf, exactly, in the United States.

But to carry out some of the really complicated, integrated, very extended sorts of attacks that al Qaeda specialized in, it's going to take a while for ISIS to be there. Now, if they can link up with some of the very worrisome, talented bomb-makers in Yemen, for example, then the threat grows.

(CROSSTALK)

BENJAMIN: But at this point, this is this is a threat in the future, and that's why it's so important to get Iraq back together, get Iraqi forces who can confront ISIS and deal with the genocidal violence.

BALDWIN: Let's talk about -- just back to what is happening right now in Iraq, Kimberly. We have the situation on Sinjar mountain, those thousands of refugees who fled there to get away from ISIS.

But we also have, you know, this broader region of Northern Iraq. I mean, you see, this is just a graphic of Mount Sinjar there at the bottom and then you have farther north, you have Peshkhabour, the area where people have been arriving by thousands on foot. What about the other parts of Northern Iraq? I know a lot of focus has been on these refugees on the mountain. But we know ISIS is running rampant in the north. Are people in places under threat and do they need rescuing?

DOZIER: You're quite right that ISIS has pushed a number of minorities out from the Northern Iraq area in the direction of Irbil, of Kurdistan.

And what the communities there are trying to do who are in safety, they're trying keep in touch with those small groups of people who still have a way to communicate, still have cell phones with charges in them to try to figure out where they are, where are the small groups of people that possibly Kurdish forces can go and rescue.

But I just wanted to mention, just back to what the ambassador was saying, yes, many in the U.S. intelligence community that I have spoken to have said, they are not worried about ISIS right now attacking U.S. targets. It's too busy trying to hold sway in Northern Iraq. They're worried about this training ground being something to deal with later on a year, two years from now,if it's not challenged at this moment. And one of the missions that I understand both CIA and special

operations forces are on right now is to gather the intelligence that could lead to future targeting packages. And then they would have to decide, is that an act for the U.S. to take, or can they trust that to the Iraqi and Kurdish forces on the ground?

BALDWIN: OK. Kimberly Dozier and Daniel Benjamin, thank you both very much. I appreciate that.

And we have to go quickly here to some breaking news. Getting some breaking news into CNN. We are two hours away from the end of a 72- hour cease-fire between Israel and Hamas. But we are just now getting word red sirens are being reported in Southern Israel, according to the Israeli Defense Forces, the IDF. Those sirens usually signal incoming rockets from Gaza.

Let's go live to John Vause, who is in Jerusalem for us.

John, what are you hearing?

JOHN VAUSE, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, hey, Brooke.

Well, just a short time ago, as you say, sirens were heard in dozens of communities in the southern part of Israel, not far from the border with Gaza. And, of course, it's a very delicate moment, because we're coming up to the end of the cease-fire and everyone was waiting to find out exactly the outcome of those negotiations.

Now it seems that we do know. We're hearing from the IDF that at least one rocket has been fired from Gaza into Southern Israel. But there have been multiple sirens warning of rocket fire over the last 20 minutes or so. So, Brooke, this does seem to be the answer from those negotiations in Cairo.

At best, we were hoping that maybe this 72-hour-long cease-fire may be extended for another period of time while those talks continue to try to find some kind of permanent solution to ending the fighting there in Gaza. But now with just over two hours before this current cease- fire was meant to come to an end, it has ended early, confirmation from the IDF at least one rocket, possibly more now landing in Southern Israel, Brooke.

So, clearly, those negotiations in Cairo have now gone the way of all the other negotiations between the Israelis and the Palestinians. And, of course, now we will have to wait and see what the Israeli response will be. It has been widely reported here in Israel that Israeli military forces have been moved closer to the border with Gaza in the run-up to the end of the cease-fire.

More reservists have been told they could be called up. So, seriously, this is now obviously going to escalate into another phase of this military operation right now.

BALDWIN: Just when people keep hoping that one of these temporary cease-fires will stick, it appears it is not. John Vause for us in Jerusalem. John, we will stay on this. Quick break here. More breaking news on the sirens sounding in

Southern Israel, as we, the world, two hours away from the end of the cease-fire, watching and waiting. Will it stick, will it not? What is next? Stay with me.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: All right, let's get you back to our breaking news here on CNN, as we're just getting word, as we have been watching this temporary cease-fire between Hamas and Israel.

It's a 72-hour cease-fire. It is scheduled to expire at About an hour and forty five minutes from now. We were talking to our correspondent in Jerusalem, John Vause, getting word here at CNN that the code red rocket sirens have already started ringing out in Southern Israel.

And just based upon how this works, we know that normally that signals incoming rockets from Gaza. As we watch for more on that, let me just bring back in Kimberly Dozier, our CNN global affairs analyst, and also from Hanover, New Hampshire, Daniel Benjamin, former U.S. ambassador at large and coordinator for counterterrorism.

And so just both of you, if I could just tap your expertise on this since this is breaking, Kimberly, let's just begin with the last we really heard about Israel before the cease-fire, we knew that they were pulling the majority of their troops out, right? They were really going in. They wanted to destroy those tunnels. Pulling the majority out, but they left some troops there, correct?

DOZIER: Well, they redeployed. That was the official term.

They pulled out their ground combat forces, but they repositioned them nearby Gaza, and the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, said he would send troops back in if the threat continued.

Israeli officials I spoke to here said they knew they were leaving Hamas and other militant groups with roughly 3,000 rockets in their possession. But they had hoped that peace talks, a cease-fire would lead to a lasting peace and that eventually Hamas would just choose not to use those rockets.

BALDWIN: I want to just sort of go back over the key demands, really, on both sides, Mr. Ambassador, with you in just a moment.

But let's pivot to Cairo, the site, location of those peace negotiations going on.

Let's go to our correspondent there, Reza Sayah.

And, Reza, what are you hearing? What's going on?

REZA SAYAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brooke, we could find out something about the talks very soon. How soon, it's not clear.

But according to the Palestinian delegation here in Cairo, the leader of that delegation, Azzam Al-Ahmad, is scheduled to make a news -- hold a news conference within the next minutes. It's not clear what he's going to talk about. But, presumably, he will give us an update on the status of the talks.

We can tell you a couple hours ago on Palestinian TV in Gaza, the head of Hamas, senior leader Ismail Haniyeh, he made a statement essentially saying he has all the confidence in the Palestinian delegation. And these are his words. He has all the confidence that they will not be blackmailed by the Zionists.

You're getting these statements, so you get the sense these talks, these indirect negotiations are winding down, that perhaps the proposals on both sides are on the table, and what's left now is for both sides to either say yes or no.

Of course, the clock is ticking here. It's about 10:15 p.m. local time. That means these two sides have at least another hour and 45 minutes to reach some sort of agreement or perhaps extend the cease- fire. Throughout these 72-hour talks, every time we have given a report, we have been looking for any sign of progress,. any indication of a positive development, Brooke.

But up until now, there simply hasn't been any. They have pretty much both kept mum, the Israeli officials telling us that there hasn't been much progress, the Palestinians remaining quiet. All along, the Egyptians trying to keep positive, but unless something changes in the next hour and 45 minutes, the outcome of these talks are going to be identical to the outcome of the talks last week.

Of course, those talks fell apart. The two sides started fighting again. And that's an outcome I think much of the world would hate to see right now.

BALDWIN: Reza, let me come back to you in just a second, because I want to talk about -- I think it's key to talk about why those talks fell apart and we may be seeing a repeat of that.

But, as I do so, we're just getting word from Israel. Go ahead and throw the tweet up on the scene from the Israeli Defense Forces. And if you can pull the banner down, let me just read this here. "Gaza terrorists have breached the cease-fire and launched a rocket at Israel, hitting the Hof Ashkelon regional council."

That's what we're getting from Israel, that Gaza has breached the cease-fire, as you just saw, as they have still one hour and 45 minutes remaining in that 72-hour temporary cease-fire.

So, Reza, back to you. Listen, we cannot say conclusively here on air that the cease-fire is over, although it appears from Israel that they are saying it is. Remind us, with the breaking down of those talks there in Egypt where you are, the last time, it seems to me the key issue at least from the side of Hamas was the blockade.

SAYAH: Yes, and I think before we get to that, it's important to point out that if indeed a rocket was fired from Gaza into Israel, it would be identical to what we saw last week, the last hour, literally, the last hour of the cease-fire talks. Rockets were fired from Gaza into Israel. Hamas immediately denied

that they were responsible. I believe Islamic Jihad took responsibility, and then things fell apart. If that's the case again today, again, it would be an identical scenario to last week.

Back to the talks. The sticking point, the reasons for the impasse have remained the same. On one hand, you have Hamas. They say they have come too far to back down, not to get some concessions from the Israelis. They want the complete lifting of the blockade. They want the border crossings open. They want a seaport, an airport, something to give them access to the outside world.

They say that's the only way they can live a dignified life and have self-determination. On the other side, you have the Israelis who eventually say, no way, we're not going to address those issues until our security concerns are addressed. And that includes the disarming of Hamas, the demilitarization of Gaza, which for the Palestinians have been a nonstarter.

So that's the sticking point. Obviously, in any negotiations, in any conflict resolution process, you want to see compromise. You want to see concessions made. We haven't seen it in this conflict. And, again, unless something changes, we're going to be back to another round of fighting between these two sides, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So as you point out, again, in that final hour if what Israel is reporting is true, then the cease-fire appears to be broken.

Reza Sayah, thank you so much in Cairo, the site of the peace talks.

And just bringing our panel back in, Daniel Benjamin and Kimberly Dozier.

Mr. Ambassador, again, just hearing Reza putting into context the notion that Hamas absolutely wants that blockade lifted, I mean, to think of the chances of that happening from the Israeli perspective, slim to none. Correct?

BENJAMIN: Very slim.

You know, Hamas has very little to show for the war it initiated. And it desperately wants a concession from the Israelis to strengthen its standing among the population of Gaza. The Israelis are extremely reluctant to give them that, and the Israelis certainly don't want to open up the borders in a way that would allow Hamas to rebuild tunnels and restock its supply of rockets.

Now, what has changed in the last round of negotiations is the involvement of a broader Palestinian team. And the question was really whether Israel wanted to strengthen the West Bank Palestinians by giving them concessions. But it seems that Israel doesn't feel it's getting enough out of this deal, and they really don't want to be doing this every couple of years, feel like they have to put Hamas back in its box after a provocation.

And so it's a stalemate. And Hamas is now doing the only thing it can, by launching rockets and showing that it can't be destroyed. So we could be stuck in a situation like this for some time. Again, Hamas is desperate to have something to show the Palestinians in Gaza, and Israel, frankly, isn't getting anything that it views as being worthwhile in return.

BALDWIN: Daniel Benjamin and Kimberly Dozier, thank you so much.

And we have to get a quick break in. We have heard from our correspondent in Jerusalem. We're going to take you to Gaza City on the other side of the break as we are hearing and seeing at least from Israel in this tweet from the IDF that the cease-fire is broken and that Gaza -- that Hamas has lobbed a rocket into Israel in this final hour of a 72-hour cease-fire.

Quick break. Back after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Got some breaking news, potential breakdown in talks here between Hamas and Israel.

Let's get straight to this tweet from Israeli Defense Forces, IDF. This is what they just tweeted here. "Gaza terrorists have breached the cease-fire and launched a rocket at Israel, hitting the Hof Ashkelon regional council."

All of this -- again, keep in mind there has been a 72-hour cease-fire under way as those peace talks have continued in Cairo, so we are in just about that final hour of this temporary cease-fire.

We have reporters both in Gaza City and in Jerusalem for you, as we have been hearing and reporting here at CNN sirens going off, code red sirens going off in Southern Israel.

So we have Fred Pleitgen for us in Gaza City. We have John Vause in Jerusalem respectively.

So, Fred Pleitgen, I have yet to hear from you, so let's go straight to you there in Gaza. Tell me what you know, what you're seeing where you are.

FREDERIK PLEITGEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, right now, Brooke, it's still a very fluid situation. It's a very tense situation here in Gaza.

I would say about 45 minutes to an hour ago, we did from our position hear something that might have been interpreted as being possibly an outgoing rocket that was possibly fired from here. And it was only a couple minutes later that we did get those reports from the Israeli Defense Forces that indeed, a rocket had been fired, as you said, at the Hof Ashkelon area in Southern Israel.

There were some outlets that were claiming that perhaps it was up to two or three rockets that were fired here from Gaza. The Israeli Defense Forces, as you say, at this point in time are only confirming that one rocket hit that territory in Southern Israel. The other big thing that seems to be out there is whether or not the

Israelis have actually retaliated yet. There are some reports out there at this point saying that there were explosions in Northern Gaza. From our vantage point here, we have not heard anything of that nature. And so far the Israeli Defense Forces are also not confirming that they have conducted any sort of strikes in Northern Gaza, that there have been any explosions in Northern Gaza.

So right now what we're seeing from our vantage point here, Brooke, is that there is calm on the streets. I would say about an hour ago, there was much more life on the street. It was bustling. There were a lot of cars on the street, there was people on the street. But all of that is beginning to die down. It's not clear whether or not that is related to the possible breach of the cease-fire, whether that's just because it's getting very late here.

But, certainly, the people here have been confronted with the fact that their time with the cease-fire has been running out. As you said, we are pretty much in the final hour of that cease-fire anyway. And now all indications appear to be that things might very well be falling apart, Brooke.

BALDWIN: And to our correspondent's point there in Cairo, the scene of those peace talks, this is exactly how it played out the last time, in that final hour, rocket being lobbed to Jerusalem.

To you, John Vause. Tell us again about these code red sirens in Southern Israel.

VAUSE: Yes, this is what was unusual about all of this, Brooke, is that it was very quiet. And then suddenly there seemed to be alerts in dozens of communities surrounding the southern part of Israel, surrounding the Gaza border there.

And at first there was a suspicion that maybe they were false alarms. Then the reports started coming in, as Fred mentioned, as many as three rockets had been fired, one intercepted. But we have to stress that the IDF, Israel Defense Forces, only confirming one rocket, which was fired at Israel landing in an open field, not causing any death, not causing any damage.

At this point so far, we understand that nobody in Gaza is actually claiming responsibility for this rocket fire, very similar to what happened last time, when two rockets were fired just hours before the cease-fire was expected to expire. Same thing again, a rocket being launched, and came around the same time, when we're expecting to hear from the Palestinian delegation in Cairo as to what the outcome of those three days of talks had actually been.

So the timing is very suspicious, obviously. There is now this rocket, the confirmation from the IDF, nothing coming from the Gaza side as to what happened, nothing coming from the Palestinians as to the outcome of those negotiations.

So it's now really up to the Israelis. How do they deal with this? Can they live with one rocket being fired? Can they deal with that politically? Are they -- are they now preparing some kind of response?