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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Advisers Arrive in Irbil; U.S. Weighs Options to Rescue Yazidis Trapped by ISIS; Iraqi Yazidis Make Perilous Journey to Kurdistan to Escape ISIS

Aired August 13, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: John Berman.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Michaela Pereira. "Legal View" starts now.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: Iraq's humanitarian crisis getting worse by the minute. The United States now considering a massive air evacuation to rescue the refugees who are trapped on Mt. Sinjar. So does that mean even more American boots eventually on the ground there?

And what about the thousands of other Iraqis, young and old, who fled the mountain on foot, many without food, water or even shoes. Some of them died just trying to make the journey. And they could all end up slaughtered if they try to go home.

And also this hour, a third night of angry protests in Ferguson, Missouri, over the shooting death of Michael Brown. And we still do not know the name of the policeman who pulled the trigger. So how much longer can the city keep that under wraps?

Hello, everyone, I'm Ashleigh Banfield. It's Wednesday, August the 13th, and welcome to LEGAL VIEW.

They cannot stay where they are. Not for much longer anyway. They can't get out without help. And even with help, some of them just won't survive. Going home would mean almost certain death. Yazidis and other persecuted religious minorities in northern Iraq have very few options left and very little time left.

But now at least they've got the world's attention. And a plan is taking shape to rescue all of them by the United Nations estimates as many as 30,000 people from the mountain they were driven to by jihadi militants called ISIS or Islamic State. Today, an additional 130 United States Marines and special forces are in country and a U.S. official tells CNN they are now leaning towards an air evacuation rather than trying to open up a long and still very dangerous land route.

United States military cargo planes have now carried out six humanitarian air drops totaling almost 100,000 meals and 27,000 gallons of water. Water is especially vital since the temperatures on Mt. Sinjar top 110 degrees. And they're only going up. Iraqi Kurds are still flying in provisions on helicopters and flying out as many refugees as they can carry, and then some.

Getting off of the mountain by foot may or may not be riskier than waiting for a rescue, but the United Nations estimates 35,000 Iraqis have done it, with the help from Kurdish fighters. Those fighters called the Peshmerga. They've crossed into Syria -- yes, Syria -- apparently safer than where they are, and also back to the Kurdistan region of far northern Iraq.

I want to get straight to the White House where there is right now Ben Rhodes is doing a briefing, unexpected. Let's listen in.

BEN RHODES, DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: So any U.S. military personnel, anywhere in the world, again has the ability to protect themselves, but the purpose and the mission that they are going to Iraq for is not to engage in combat. This is to make an assessment on a temporary basis about how we move that population off the mountain into a safe place.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what do you make of some of the assessment here (INAUDIBLE) the last several days that ISIS does pose a national security threat to the United States? Is that also the opinion of the president (INAUDIBLE)?

RHODES: Well, look, the president has ordered this military action in Iraq because of the threat that they pose to our facility and our people in Irbil. So by definition, we absolutely believe that ISIL poses a threat to U.S. persons and U.S. personnel. We're focused on dealing with that threat right now in Iraq so that the terrorists cannot advance on Irbil. The air strikes that we have launched have stopped those advances and given space for the Kurdish forces, the Peshmerga, to engage ISIL. But we are always monitoring not just the security of our facilities and our people in places like Baghdad and Irbil, also monitoring potential plots against the United States and we'll continue to do that.

John.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is one of the options under consideration creating a safe corridor for the refugees to get off that mountain?

RHODES: Yes, there are a range of options. I don't want to get ahead of decisions that haven't been made yet. We're going to rely on what the teams report back in terms of their assessment. But you look at corridors, you look at airlifts, you look at different ways to move people who are in a very dangerous place on that mountain to a safer position and that's exactly what our team is doing on the ground now in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Has the president (INAUDIBLE) said over and over again, no ground troops in Iraq, but is he willing to consider the option of sending a certain number of troops in there for the purposes of establishing something like a -- you know, a force protection like you're saying or a safe corridor for them to get out?

RHODES: Well, we haven't made that decision at this point, John. We want to see what the circumstances are, see what options are available for moving those people who are trapped on the mountain. We obviously have not just U.S. personnel who could potentially be engaged in that type of effort. We have Kurdish forces who are engaged in the area with ISIL. We have international partners who also want to support the provision of humanitarian assistance. So we will look at what the best way and the safest way is to get those people off that mountain. And the president will be making decisions after he hears back from the military about what they found on the ground there in Iraq.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just to clarify what I'm asking, because the president said over and over again, no combat troops, no ground troops in Iraq. Does that statement extend to the idea of a safe corridor? Establishing a safe corridor? I mean is he willing -- is that something - so, in other words, are you saying - and I think what you're saying is, the president hasn't ruled out sending in additional troops to establish a safe corridor for those refugees to get off that mountain?

RHODES: Well, again, he hasn't received a recommendation to establish a corridor at this point.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

RHODES: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) any times ground troops (INAUDIBLE) --

RHODES: He's -- what he's ruled out is reintroducing U.S. forces into combat on the ground in Iraq. But there are a variety of ways in which we can support the safe removal of those people from the mountain. And frankly we already have people on the ground working with Kurdish forces in a joint operations center in Irbil. So there are ways in which we can coordinate with Iraqi forces on the ground for instance in seeking to combat the threat from ISIL and to bring people to a safe space.

But again, as we make decisions about what the best course of action is to bring those people to safety, we will be very transparent about that. I think the principle holds that we're not putting ground forces into combat role in Iraq. We're using U.S. military personnel to assess what the best way is to bring people to safety and what the best way is to provide them with humanitarian assistance. But again, always, force protection is a mission for U.S. personnel wherever they are in the world. That's certainly true of the reinforcements that are protecting our facilities in Irbil and Baghdad.

Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What information does the U.S. have about how many people still are stranded on the mountain and where exactly they are?

RHODES: So there have been a broad range of estimates to date that go into the tens of thousands. We believe that some number of thousands of people have been able to escape from the mountain. But not in a safe enough way and to a safe enough space that we're confident that the remaining people who are trapped there can get off. Part of what these teams can do working with Kurdish forces is try to get an understanding of the scope of the challenge on the mountain, as well as the routes to remove people. To date, we've also, again, provided over 100,000 meals, some 27,000 gallons of water. We'll continue those air drops. The British have done a number of air drops. They're going to continue to do that. We've had offers of assistance from France, Canada, Australia. So we're getting aid to the people who are on the mountain while also trying to determine the best means to bring them to a safe place.

And Jeff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ben, Maliki is showing resistance stepping down as prime minister. Does the U.S. have any message for him specifically after this new prime minister-designate has been chosen?

RHODES: Yes. I think the message to all of Iraq's leaders is, there is a peaceful process in place to get a new government for Iraq. There's a new president. There's a new speaker of parliament. And Shia alliance of different political blocs has put forward Dr. Abadi as a candidate for prime minister. And now the president has asked him to form a government. So, in our view, he is clearly the prime minister- designate in Iraq.

This process now needs to go forward, for him to put together a government and submit it to parliament. But that is the process in place that all Iraqis have to respect. And, frankly, any efforts to derail that process, any efforts to use violence instead of working peacefully through the political process will be rejected, not just by the United States but by Iraqis themselves, by the international community. So we want to see, again, a peaceful context for this process to conclude. There's an enormous opportunity with a new prime minister-designate in place to get a unity government that all of Iraq's different factions can buy into, can support, and then turn the focus to where it needs to be, which is combating the threat from ISIL.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) derail the process?

RHODES: Well, again, to date, the process has moved forward.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE).

RHODES: He's still there. There's a 30-day period, now that Dr. Abadi has been designated as the next prime minister, for him to form his government and present it to parliament. That is the step that needs to take place for this to be formalized. So that is an ongoing process.

But I think our message to Prime Minister Maliki and to all Iraqi leaders is, this is the one process that is consistent with the Iraqi constitution, that it's going to lead to a new government and he needs to respect that process, let it go forward, because, frankly, this is not being imposed on anybody from outside of Iraq. This is what the Iraqis themselves have decided to do, including, importantly, not just the Kurdish president and the Sunni speaker, but the different Shia political factions that put forward Dr. Abadi as their candidate for prime minister.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will the White House be glad to see Maliki off the world stage?

RHODES: The White House will be very glad to see a new government in place with Prime Minister Abadi at the lead of that government. We believe it's necessary, frankly, to bring the country together. What's happened in the course of the last several years is you did not have Iraqis working together across different sectarian and communal lines. You had a Sunni population that became disaffected. That led to a loss of confidence in certain parts of Iraq, in the Iraqi security forces. What we need - and this is, you know, often we're asked, what is the long term strategy for dealing with ISIL? I think it's very clear. You get a new government in place that provides the basis for all of Iraqi communities to support the government in Baghdad and to turn the focus where it needs to be, which is on combating ISIL. We will be providing, training and equipping security assistance and advice to Iraqi and Kurdish forces. And then we can begin to squeeze the space where ISIL's operating and start to push them back. But that demands the cooperation of all Iraqis. And that's the opportunity we have with this - with this new government.

Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) you said that the (INAUDIBLE) have offered to help the humanitarian efforts. Does that extend to getting the refugees off the mountain, either through a corridor or airlifts? And also, do we need personnel up there to help distribute the aid that's being dropped?

RHODES: So in the first instance, Wendell, the Iraqis, and the Kurdish forces in particular, have been engaged. They have a presence on the mountain. And they will certainly be cooperating with us in this effort. The brits have been the most forward leading of all of our allies in terms of doing humanitarian air drops. Prime Minister Cameron today indicated that they want to work with us as we work to get that population to a safe place. So the United Kingdom has been fully in coordination with us in the provision of humanitarian assistance.

Again, we have offers of support from a number of allies like France, Australia, Canada. We'll be in discussions with them about what they can do, both as it relates to helping the Yazidi population that has been trapped on the mountain, but also, more broadly, helping bring relief to the displaced persons in northern Iraq, which includes not just Yazidis but an enormous number of Iraqi Christians and others who have been driven from their homes by ISIL.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're getting (ph) the food, is there no concern about the chaos that can be caused by just dropping supplies in there and letting the people sort it out?

RHODES: Well, again, we have done several air drops. I think every night. We have good fidelity on where the food and water is dropping. We're able to watch how that reaches the population, given the assets we have in the area, and we're able to make sure we're trying to drop food and water in places where we believe people are concentrated. We've done these types of humanitarian air drops in other instances. And so, again, we have an ability to focus on where we believe people are most impacted.

But part of what these assessment teams will do, who are going to northern Iraq, is get a better understanding of the situation on the mountain, where folks are, and so that can help inform, again, both how we move them off the mountain but also how we're providing that humanitarian assistance.

BANFIELD: Ben Rhodes speaking on behalf of the White House in Martha's Vineyard where the president has been on vacation at this crisis moment. He's referring specifically to the images CNN brought you just the other day where Ivan Watson was on board one of those Iraqi helicopters that was distributing the aid. There have been so many of these humanitarian drops now but you can see how chaotic they are. Oftentimes they're just throwing things and there are people below. That specific question to Ben Rhodes about putting people on the ground. Could they be American people on the ground to try to help disperse and make that a safer circumstance? Even Ivan said he was terrified that they were hurting people below as they were dropping that aid.

And the biggest question, how to get the tens of thousands of people who are stranded on that mountaintop, where the temperature is expected to reach 111 degrees today and 117 tomorrow, how to get them off there. All the while, many are dying.

And joining me now to talk about this extremely dangerous and potentially widespread U.S. mission in Iraq is Barbara Starr at the Pentagon, our chief national security correspondent Jim Sciutto, who's in Washington, and then right here with me in New York, CNN's military analyst and retired Air Force Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Barbara, first to you, with the news of the now 129 - the number is slightly revised by one, but those military advisers who were announced yesterday and have arrived today. Give me the lowdown on what's happened.

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Ashleigh.

Well, first of all, the aid that's being dropped -- when Ivan was on a helicopter, an Iraqi helicopter, flying at very low altitude, so you bet they were basically tossing the aid out the door. What I think Ben Rhodes was talking about to some extend are the air drops by U.S. and British transport planes. Parachute drops. They're able to see that that material is from these higher altitude planes safely to a very large extent getting to the people on the ground.

One of the things Ben Rhodes said that is so interesting, he said there will be no reintroduction of U.S. combat forces into Iraq. That is essentially what President Obama's pledge has been -- no reintroduction into a combat role.

That's a pretty significant choice of words there. They're not looking to go back into offensive combat operations. If combat comes to them through this humanitarian mission, if they get attacked by ISIS, they certainly do have the right to defend themselves.

Will there be boots on the ground? There are already boots on the ground. Some 900 U.S. personnel in Iraq doing a variety of missions. What we know is that they are assessing two options, land and air, to try and get these people out of there.

There are already some B-22 aircraft, military aircraft, nearby in Erbil. There's every expectation that some of these personnel will go to that mountain very quietly in the days ahead. They will have a look around. They will try and see a little more close-up what the exact situation is.

There's a good deal of thinking that this could turn into an air operation, because that would go more quickly, but they have a long way to go on this. They do have to establish security. They have to make sure ISIS is nowhere nearby or conduct the air strikes to push them back. And most importantly, they have to have a place to take these people.

They can get them off the mountain, but they have to have somewhere secure for them to go. The work will be done with the United Nations to find a location.

The bottom line, all of this awaits President Obama's approval in the coming days. They are working on the options. They will present them to the White House, but there is that distinction that the military feels very strongly about.

Boots on the ground, you bet. Back into an offensive combat role, no, that is not what they're looking for. But if ISIS comes to them, they will defend themselves.

Ashleigh?

BANFIELD: And I'm going to touch on that with Colonel Francona in a moment. Just exactly what is offensive versus defensive when it comes to this combat situation.

But, first, Jim Sciutto, to you, the secretary of state discussed the options that are on the table right now. In his words, that's exactly what we are assessing. The possibility that a humanitarian corridor will have to be established when the question was put to him about, does that mean people on the ground to secure the movement of those people?

They're talking about an international presence with regard to the people on the ground, but there is that possibility that in a defensive role, Americans could be there too.

Can you characterize exactly what all of that meant?

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Listen, the options that the administration is considering now, whether by air -- an air evacuation -- or by ground -- land evacuation -- involve U.S. boots on the ground, though not in a combat role. But to Barbara's point, Ben Rhodes puts out a fairly, and the administration has done this consistently, very narrow definition of what combat troops are, because if you -- even if it's an air evacuation, you need troops on the ground to assess the needs. You need them to coordinate the air evacuation. And you would need them to secure, to some degree, the American planes that would be landing.

And when they would land at another airfield, Ben Rhodes said, as Barbara referred to, if they came under attack, they would protect themselves. Force protection is an opportunity -- is an obligation and it's a priority for them.

You know, this is -- they face a danger, regardless. Even if they're not in offensive roles, you know, going along with Iraqi troops, taking back is positions, they will be facing risks. And that's true whether it is a land or an air corridor.

So it's a very narrow definition of what combat troops are. Not offensive, but they will be physically present on the ground, whatever option the president chooses, whether air or ground evacuation, and they will face danger.

And I think, you know, that's something that the American people have to be aware of as this moves forward. You have more Americans on the ground there. Therefore, you have more danger going forward, even if they're not in a formal combat role.

BANFIELD: Colonel if you could weigh in on this, so many people say why America? Why is it always America? Why is it the Americans are being pressured to somehow rescue these tens of thousands?

Where are the Chinese? Where are the Saudis? Where are the French? Where's the United Nations in all of this. And you have a very good answer for this.

LIEUTENANT COLONEL RICK FRANCONA (RETIRED), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, we're the ones who can do it. We spend a lot of money, a lot of resources, developing these unique capabilities. Airlift is something we do very well. We put our money into it.

A lot of times when our NATO allies or other foreign forces go somewhere, they ride on American aircraft, because although it's sexy to buy fighter airplanes, we spend the money on transports and airlift capability.

So if with have to go up on the mountain and move these people by air, we already have the units designed and developed to do this. They're called airlift control elements.

They'll go there. They'll secure the area. They'll set up, you know, a weather station and everything else you need to safely fly. And you have to protect the landing zone, because we saw what happened with the Iraqi helicopter that was rushed by a group of people that caused the aircraft to crash.

So we have to secure that. And that's going to be boots on the ground. Jim makes an excellent point. This is going to be dangerous --

BANFIELD: No matter what.

FRANCONA: -- because those aircraft are going to be flying in the threat envelope of the surface-to-air missile, the man pads that we always talk about, that ISIS has. So these -- our troops are going to be in combat.

They may not be in the offensive combat role, but to say they're not going to be in danger, I think, is misleading. I think we need to make sure that everybody knows this is a risk for our troops.

BANFIELD: Yeah, and offensive, Ivan Watson's helicopter shots showed that they are offensive in the process of being defensive.

Jim and Colonel Francona, if you could stand by for just a moment, there's still so much of this story that we have left to tell.

We cannot talk about the people enough who are absolutely on the run for their lives, men, women, little kids, the elderly, some in cars, some on foot, some even barefoot, covered in dust, filthy, broiling, 120-degree weather.

The desperate story of the refugees at the heart of this problem, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Some of the breaking news just out of the White House, the national -- deputy national security adviser for the president just saying live to the press corps that the president will be getting an assessment from his teams on the ground up in -- near the Kurdistan border, where those Yazidis are all trapped, about how many days it will be until there's a decision that can be made on how best to rescue them, but that apparently relatively quickly in a matter of days, the president should be getting his office from that assessment team on the ground.

And getting off of Mount Sinjar, by foot, may or may not be riskier than the wait for the rescue. But the United Nations estimates that 35,000 Iraqis have already done it, and they've had the help from Kurdish fighters, the Peshmerga that you've heard about.

They have, believe it or not, decided that going into Syria -- Syria -- is more safe, and then crossing back into the Kurdistan region where it's even safer in far northern Iraq.

And CNN's Ivan Watson has been meeting them as they've been crossing a bridge into this safe zone, and his images and report are miraculous.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

IVAN WATSON, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The scene is almost biblical, a modern day exodus. Thousands of people trudge across a river to escape a violent enemy. Most of them move in silence. On occasion, loved ones, separated by war, tearfully reunite.

Everyone is fleeing ISIS militants, who many here refer to as Daj (ph).

JAMIL JAMIR, UNIVERSITY STUDENT: When Daj (ph), terrorists -- you know Daj (ph)?

WATSON: Yes.

JAMIR: They attack us, and our neighbors, they are Arab. They Arab. Since terrorists came, they joined them, and actually they kill us.

WATSON: People you know?

JAMIR: Yes, people, our neighbors.

WATSON: Many refugees are members of a Kurdish religious minority known as the Yazidis. One of them, university student Jamil Jamir, found his missing cousin here.

JAMIR: We've lost each other. We've lost each other. Thanks be god. They arrive.

WATSON: Like many of the other refugees, Jamir and his family fled to Sinjar Mountain more than a week ago after ISIS captured their town.

They spent days camping on the mountain, desperately waiting for air drops of food and water until they escaped by foot on a marathon, 15- hour journey to Syria, a journey that claimed lives.

JAMIR: On the way, two of our brothers, small brothers, what we do, not enough water and thirsty. Actually, I feel that I will die. We put on the way -- what do we do, they died.

WATSON: Your brothers?

JAMIR: Yeah.

WATSON: Two of your brothers died?

JAMIR: Yeah, babies.

WATSON: A senior Kurdish official here is calling on foreign governments and organizations to prevent genocide.

FAZEL MIRANY, KURDISTAN DEMOCRATIC PARTY: Use your power. Through the international law. To save the Yazidis from the genocide.

WATSON: By the time these refugees reach Iraqi Kurdistan, some are too sick and exhausted to walk.

This family won't go any further. For the eleventh night in a row, they'll sleep out in the open, but this time by the banks of the river, their dinner, two plates of donated chicken for 12 people, their beds, a few scraps of cardboard.

Ivan Watson, CNN, on the Iraqi-Kurdistan border with Syria.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And CNN's Anna Coren joins me live from a spot that you might call no-man's-land were it not teeming with desperate men, women and children, and as Ivan reported, sleeping out in the open, sharing rations that few people could survive on.

Anna, just take me to the scene that's being set up behind you. I mean, so much has changed overnight, it seems. I can see the tents, the small tent city. It's only sure to grow.

ANNA COREN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, absolutely, Ashleigh.