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Don Lemon Tonight

Another Night of Protest in Ferguson, Missouri, on the Death of Michael Brown

Aired August 14, 2014 - 23:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back, everyone. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon, live in Ferguson, Missouri.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Alisyn Camerota in New York.

LEMON: And Alisyn, we have more on our breaking news tonight. Another night of protests over the shooting of an unarmed black teenager Michael Brown by a police officer here in Ferguson. Well still don't know his name. Police now say, though, that they will identify the officer tomorrow. But what will it take to get justice? And do we want to live in an America where more and more young men feel as if they have targets on their backs, Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Plus, Don, gun sales are soaring in the St. Louis area. Can police keep things under control? So we're going to get into all of that tonight.

But we do want to go back to Don in Ferguson, Missouri for the latest there. Hi, Don.

LEMON: Absolutely, Ali. And you know, I have to start up by saying it is indeed an honor to be here tonight, to cover this, to see this happening on the ground, and to get the reaction of the people. And I was speaking to my colleague Jake Tapper earlier, who is now in the crowd tonight. And we have the same interaction a about what it's like to be with people here.

And it's, Jake, so far this evening, it's no different than being at a sporting event or any rally so far. It has been pretty peaceful.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That's right. I have to tell you, Don. We just talk a little walk. It's about three blocks down Canfield to the Canfield marina park complex, where Mike Brown was shot on Saturday afternoon. And I have to say, the solemnity of that site, there is a makeshift memorial with flowers and posters and dolls right in the middle of the street where he died. It's so remarkably different from the tenor of the protests. It's two different worlds, really. Obviously that is what it is about. It is about the fact that Mike Brown was killed. And there are so many other young black men who are afraid that they will face the same fate. And yet obviously it takes on something of a less serious air when it's in such a large boisterous group as this right now, Don. LEMON: All right, Jake. If Jake can still hear me, I know there is a

long delay, Jake. You said you're out walking in the crowd. How that traffic, just before we started the show at 10:00 p.m. eastern, it was backed up about a mile in each direction. Is it still that way?

TAPPER: It is still backed up quite a bit in both directions. People are driving slowly, as I mentioned. There are people with the new black panther party who are trying to help steer traffic and get it to continue. Other individuals who seem to have taken on something of a traffic guard role for themselves. Some of them just members of the community, others of them wearing bandannas, hiding their identities, some of them, I asked one of them why he was wearing a mask. He said it was in solidarity with the group anonymous, the hackers which have expressed a desire for the officer's name to be disclosed, although I think sometimes the names that have been disclose although I think sometimes the names have had been disclosed, have been inaccurate.

But right now we see the attitude of so many people here is they're trying to get their point across. Hands up, don't shoot, and of course --.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I want to be on the news right now.

TAPPER: You're on the news right now. That is right. But of course, as I said, the memorial for Michael Brown just a few blocks away. That's really a place that we'll be showing more on CNN tomorrow, because that's really what it's about -- Don.

LEMON: All right, Jake Tapper, great job in the crowd, Jake, seeing the reaction in realtime and close up.

I want to bring in now Maria Chappelle-Nadal. She is a Missouri state senator who was caught in tear gas during the protest on Monday night. Thank you so much for joining us. And it's good to see you. I saw you a little earlier. So give me a handshake here.

So, I was walking, you were sitting in the car and you said you were going to be on with me. And all of the sudden the protesters come down the street.

MARIA CHAPPELLE-NADAL, MISSOURI STATE SENATOR: Yes.

LEMON: And they're saying no justice, no peace. And they're saying, you know, hands up. Don't shoot.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes.

LEMON: What do you make of the difference? You're smiling today, even though you were hit with tear gas last night.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Yes. It's like a thousand pounds have been lifted off my shoulders. We have been protesting peacefully with tear gas, and I actually was victim with my constituents and tear gas attacks twice on Monday and last night. And so, to finally after six days being able to protest in peace without firing guns down our shoulders and in our faces, it's a wonderful thing. LEMON: OK. As wonderful as this is, you're smiling, right?

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: I am.

LEMON: But people are smiling because there is no violence tonight.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: There is no intimidation by police officers.

LEMON: But then, the underlying problems, though, are still there.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: They are.

LEMON: There is still the disconnect between the police department and the community. There is still racism. This does not end racism. This is not a race any of them.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Now that we finally get to protest in peace without intimidation, now we can set before us objectives. And some of those objectives include having a police department that is reflective of the community. It's also an opportunity to start having young people go to city council meetings and knowing who their city council members are and who their mayor.

Right now young people don't know who their elected officials are locally. And that would make a big, big difference in this entire situation. We also need to upgrade some of our technology that our police officers use so that we can ensure any time there is a situation such as this, that everything is recorded.

LEMON: I was speaking with my colleague Jake Tapper earlier. And we were talking about a lot of -- not a lot of the people. Some of the people here were sort of afraid, had never really interacted with black people. And I'm like I'm not afraid of my own people. Like there is nothing to fear. They just want to be heard. But it's not just African Americans. There is someone carrying a sign. Let me see your sign, sir. It says we are watch -- turn on the other side. We are Mike Brown. And he says wash u students for district.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: My district, Washington University is my district. And you know what? Let me just tell you something special about this community. We are black. We are white. We are Latino. And we socialize together. We dance together, we drink together. And you know what? This is about young people. This is about young people not being disrespected and having the opportunity to succeed and thrive without intimidation. This is what this is all about, including Michael Brown. Anyone can be Michael Brown. That's why they have that sign, I am Michael Brown.

LEMON: That's what I heard from everyone, saying listen, we just don't want to be intimidated. But you don't want to be intimidated, but you also cannot destroy property.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: That's absolutely correct. So many of the things that I've been talking about, because I have been on the front lines with the protesters from day one, on Saturday, on Monday, every single day. And for about 16 hours a day. So I'm really tired. But the really important -- the real important thing is we have to focus where we go from here. And just getting everyone on one page is the first start. But we have to set objectives ahead of us. And I think people are fighting for the first amendment rights. And it's just such a shame that young people didn't get to express themselves.

LEMON: Right.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: It's a god-given constitutional right to express ourselves.

LEMON: Thank you. I have to run. I appreciate you. It's good to see a smile on your face. Thank you.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: I'm glad you're at ground zero, because our governor has not come to ground zero yet.

LEMON: Well, I used to live here. So I know St. Louis.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: Thank you.

LEMON: Yes. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

CHAPPELLE-NADAL: I appreciate it.

LEMON: Back to you, Ali.

CAMEROTA: All right, Don. Thank you so much.

We want to talk now to Kevin Jackson. He is the executive director of the black sphere and black conservative coalition. And he blames moral decay of the community for what we're seeing in Ferguson.

Mr. Jackson, thank you so much for being here. What do you mean moral decay of the community?

KEVIN JACKSON, THE BLACK SPHERE: Well, I mean, I think there are many things that could have possibly diffused this situation. And secondarily, the outcome of what happened and the looting and the things that have gone on subsequent to that.

CAMEROTA: OK.

JACKSON: So I think it's just a sign of the moral decay.

CAMEROTA: So you mean that this -- you're blaming everything that is happening in Ferguson on the community. So the anger and the outrage that the people there are feeling because an unarmed black teenager was shot, you blame their moral decay rather than whatever that police officer was thinking who shot the unarmed black teenager?

JACKSON: Well, I mean, look, Alisyn, how many black teenagers have been killed since the death of Michael Brown? Nobody cares. There are 60 people shot in Chicago last weekend, and I don't know how many of them got killed. Nobody cares. But we decide to make an issue out of this. And the issue gets bigger than just what really we should be focusing on, which is the actual details. Because there is not anybody that knows the detail at this point. And here, you know, we've got looting, people profiteering from this.

I would ask the question, did any of the people who profited from this by breaking into these stores and breaking up people's businesses and busting into their businesses, did they take anything to the Brown family? Did they do anything to support that lady and that man in their time of need?

And the answer is no. Because it was profiteering. You just had a politician on that got interviewed, and she might have well been cutting a commercial for herself in a reelection campaign.

She is talking about Kumbahyah. She hasn't said a word about the number of black youth that killed in that community every year. She is not out there at ground zero hoping for that. So it's hypocritical.

CAMEROTA: But what we're seeing actually is an outpouring of grief and of outrage because unarmed black teenagers are being killed. This isn't the first time. You say nobody cares what is going on in Chicago. I challenge you on that. People are talking about that there seems to be a trend there seems to be something going wrong that unarmed black teenagers are being killed.

JACKSON: Well, Alisyn, I challenge you and say how many of these types of parades, because that's what it is, it's a parade atmosphere, how many of these have you seen for people who have been killed in any big city in America? Name one. You have Trayvon Martin, and now you have Michael Brown. And I'd ask your viewers another question.

Can you tell me, can you tell me or Don, tell me how many cops have been killed in 2014? Well, I can tell you. The number is 27. The number of cops killed are 27. One was killed most recently in New Jersey because he was set up. And the wife of the man who was killed, of the person who killed the cop and was later subsequently killed, she wanted more cops killed. You have the new black panther party flying in who have talked about killing cracker babies and what, what are they there for? So, look --

CAMEROTA: Hold on.

JACKSON: You want to talk about moral decay.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And I want to talk about what is happening in Ferguson. I want to focus it on what is happening in Ferguson. Because what we have learned about Michael Brown is that he was a kid who graduated from high school, which is sometimes saying a lot. He did not have any police prior history, and he was to be go to college, to technical college this week. I read that he was going to be studying -- he was going to go to college for heating and air conditioning engineering, which tells me that he wanted an honest, solid job. And so there doesn't seem to be any moral decay with him, and yet he ended up dead.

JACKSON: I'm not talk about moral decay with Michael Brown. I don't know enough about what Michael Brown's history to say one thing or the other. And the one thing I would say that, it's a tragic thing that happened to Michael Brown. And if the cop that shot him did something that is wrong, then there certainly is a reason for an outcry for that.

CAMEROTA: And that's what you're seeing.

JACKSON: That that death is -- if you want to tell me that that death is any different than any of the deaths that have occurred with the many other black kids, who by the way are killed most likely by unfortunately by black kids in their own neighborhoods, I call foul.

CAMEROTA: Mr. Jackson, Kevin Jackson, thanks for your perspective. People can tweet us both. You can find me at Alisyn Camerota if you want to weigh in on this conversation. Thank you so much.

Meanwhile, we're covering everything happening tonight in Ferguson, another night of protests, this time peaceful. When we come back, the officer in charge of security tells Don what he will do to keep the peace for the rest of the night.

Plus, this may make his job that much harder. Guns flying off the shelves now. More citizens becoming armed. We'll get into that next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back to CNN TONIGHT.

Our breaking news, new protests here in Ferguson after the shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown. And earlier I spoke to the officers who were trying to keep the peace here.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: Captain, what do you want people to know? Because we're being simulcast around the world. The whole world is watching Ferguson.

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: I want people to know that the reason we're out here today, the reason we're hurting, the reason we know we need to make some changes to make our community together, and I don't want it lost. I don't want it lost, is because of this young man right here there.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You go.

JOHNSON: It's not about --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mike Brown.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love you, Mike!

JOHNSON: It's not about personal egos.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We love you, Mike!

JOHNSON: It's not about -- it's about right. It's about the justice for everyone. And we need to make sure that everyone feels that way. But I don't want anybody out here to forget that this is why we're here.

We're not going to always agree. We're not going to always agree. But I can tell you that if our intent is to make things better, and assure that our kids know that they're going grow up in a better place, and that their voice means something, no matter what your race, no matter what your age, so let's not forget this. Even in our anger and our toughest moments, when we're at our height, when we're just so angry, let's remember this as a calming force.

LEMON: Someone just handed you that picture in the crowd. But as you say that, yet we stand here and there is a burned out convenience store and gas station. That's not how you want this area to be remembered, I'm sure.

CHIEF JON BELMAR, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: You know what? I grew up here too. And went to restaurants and gyms right down the street. I don't want to see this lap to this area. I have friends that live down here. We used to buy cars down here.

LEMON: Can I ask you something? Finish your thought -- .

BELMAR: Bottom line is this area means something to all of us. And what I want to see happen at the end of this is this community to be rebuilt, be vibrant, and for the good people who live here to enjoy their commerce and conveniences.

LEMON: So people here and around the country believe that many whites in this country don't understand the relationship between blacks, especially black men, young black men and police. And there needs to be some rebuilding. What do you say to that as a white officer here?

BELMAR: I say that regardless of how good we are of building bridges, regardless of how good we communicate, that it's assistant that we strive to do a better job. It's important that we have diverse in our workforce. It's important that I make sure that commanders are selected on the department that represent our community, especially our African American community. And that's happening.

LEMON: Is there a disconnect, do you think, though?

BELMAR: You know what? I think that depends where you are and the circumstance we find ourselves. In I see less of a disconnect now than I did 28 years ago. And I hope that continues to change.

LEMON: Do you have -- Captain, do you have a message to the family, especially chief, especially since you're handling the investigation? And I'm sure they may be watching tonight.

BELMAR: My goodness, I'm a father too. But I tell you what, I spent seven years as the lieutenant in charge of homicide. And at the end of the day, we work for the victims, and we work for the victims' families. And we try to be their voice. Because at that point in time we perhaps are the only voice they have left.

LEMON: Listen, we're surrounded by people. They came -- when you walked up, these people were here hugging you. They weren't hugging the officers for the past week, past four or five days.

JOHNSON: I tell you what. I'm filled with a lot of pride.

LEMON: What is the difference, though? Why are they responding to you so differently?

JOHNSON: Because I think they know what I'm telling them is true. And my feelings are true and my feelings are honest. And I made a promise. And I made a promise about integrity. Integrity is something I can't get back.

Trust is something that is hard to gain but easy to lose. And I think I've got their trust, and I am going to do everything I can to maintain their trust. And each morning we're going have an interview. We're going to have a news interview, press conference. And we're going to talk about facts and what is going on. And they are going to know what is going on. They've got questions. I'm going to give them answers.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: And we appreciate all the officers joining us tonight and their candor. We're live at the protest in Ferguson in Missouri after the shooting death of unarmed teenager Michael Brown.

Police here have been heavily armed for days. Apparently they're not the only ones as well, because citizens are arming themselves as well. So joining me now to talk about that is Steven King. He is the owner of Metro Shooting Supplies in neighboring Bridgeton, Missouri.

Good evening. You're a gun shop owner. Sales are going up. You have training and what have you. People are coming in to get trained. Is that over the last couple of days or why?

STEVEN KING, OWNER, METRO SHOOTING SUPPLIES: Ever since Monday, the surge has come up because people are in fear of their life. They are afraid that something is going to happen to themselves or their family. And this is in their backyard, quite frankly. So they're coming in for defensive firearms.

LEMON: But they're not afraid of a militarized police department?

KING: Absolutely not. As my opinion, I believe that everyone I have talked to welcomes a well-armed police department. You have to understand, that's their first line of defense from any sort of looting, rioting. We saw what happened Sunday night when there was no police. And now the people are happy that they have well armed policemen in here.

LEMON: What is the name -- you host a radio show. What is the name of your radio show?

KING: Target Talk.

LEMON: Target Talk. So obviously you're very protest second amendment when it comes to gun rights. But a well armed militia, right, or a police department that is overbearing, isn't that what second amendment advocates use to say this is why we should be able to arm our citizens? What if all these citizens were armed as much as the police department?

KING: First of all, that's a two-part question. The first part, because of our second amendment rights, we are allowed to have our first amendment rights that we're demonstrate right now. That's first and foremost.

Secondly, a well regulated militia is everyone. That's the civilian core, the police department, the military. So if you don't have a good strong police department to protect the citizens who don't believe in having firearms, then they're left to their own. The serve and protect on the side of each of those police cars is designed for the community. They're to serve and protect the community, not individual people. So the second amendment is standing for --

LEMON: What if all these people were armed as well?

KING: That's great. They have that right to do. So everybody here that is a lawful citizen, that is not a felon, that is legal to own a firearm, they can be here there is no law against that. We have conceal carry here.

LEMON: I think it's interesting in the wake of the shooting that gun sales have been going up. It's very interesting. Thank you. I appreciate that.

Hey, General Russel Honore, I have a question for you. Speaking about that, if people are going in to buy more guns, get more training, if there are more guns out on the street, does that make it harder for these officers who are out there?

LT. GEN. RUSSEL HONORE, (RET.) U.S. ARMY: Well, yes. I think more guns create more opportunities for people when they get angry, when they think they're being treated unfairly, or they get in a position where they think that their life are threatened that they go to shooting.

I don't think more guns are going to make the country safer. I do not believe that. You know, have I 20,000 troops on the DMZ in Korea, and we put the guns away at night. We didn't keep guns in the barracks. So this notion that everybody ought to have a gun, I think it's a pretty sick notion for America that we're advocating that everybody have guns on them all the time. That is pretty sick, and that's a step backwards in America.

LEMON: Yes, but it is a second amendment. It is our right, general. Thank you, General Russel Honore. I appreciate it -- Ali.

CAMEROTA: All right, Don. Thank you so much for all that information from out there. We'll have much more live from Ferguson, Missouri tonight.

And in a world where news travels in realtime on twitter, have the rules of policing changed? (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Social media gives us up to the second reports on protests, police activity, even man hunt. But many in law enforcement claim it can cause big problems for their investigations.

Jean Casarez has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No justice!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No peace!

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Always on, unfiltered. A technological eyewitness to history. The smartphones, text messages and social media of Ferguson, Missouri, front and center in this crisis.

ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST. LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: As you know, particularly with social media, there is so much information out there. And we're urging anyone and everyone with any information at all that pertains to this, by all means, contact us.

CASAREZ: All of that information can be tough to wade through. Some of it dramatic, like this video taken moments after the shooting. Then there is this. The group anonymous tweeted out what they say is the name of the officer who shot 18-year-old Michael Brown. The problem? They didn't get it right. The St. Louis county police department responds. Twitter suspends the account.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN HOST, RELIABLE SOURCES: With any new technology, there is the threat of misinformation of wrong facts and data being spread.

CASAREZ: But with no filter, information can go worldwide with the touch of a finger, making investigations more challenging.

ROGER CANAFF, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Unfortunately, I think it's a double edged sword. On one hand, I think evidence that is recorded created by individuals who were there. I think it can be tremendously powerful and very helpful. But it can also be misleading and it can be very hurtful.

STELTER: On social media, you can sense so much anger so, much outrage, and a little bit of fear as well. These websites amplify people's emotions.

CASAREZ: It is one reason why police in Washington State are asking citizens to think twice before tweeting when they see officers at work for fear of disrupting investigations.

Attorney CJ Lawrence couldn't believe it when he saw social media response to this picture of Michael Brown, which some interpreted as him holding up a gang sign. CJ LAWRENCE, ATTORNEY: Look at him, in the streets with his pants

sagging. I don't feel sorry for him at all. And I was shocked by that.

CASAREZ: Lawrence tweeted out a picture of himself with President Clinton and separately with a bottle of booze, asking which picture would get more attention. #iftheygunmedown has gone viral, showing perceptions can cloud reality. Police vow to use every source of information at their disposal to get to the truth.

MCCULLOCH: The one thing that I have pledged is that we will do a full, fair, complete, and impartial investigation into this. Nothing will be left untouched.

CASAREZ: Or in this case, unsaid or unread. Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Joining us to discuss the role of social media in Ferguson and whether it's helpful or dangerous is CJ Lawrence. He is the attorney from Jackson, Mississippi, and the creator of the hash tag you just saw, if they gunned me down. Also L.Z. Granderson, he is CNN commentator and senior writer for ESPN. Guys, thank you so much for being here.

CJ, I want to start with you. We just saw the two pictures that you tweeted out after Michael Brown's death. One with you with President Clinton on the top there, one of the bottom of you holding that bottle of cognac. And of course, then you started the #iftheygunnedmedown. What message were you trying to send?

LAWRENCE: Ultimately, the message that I wanted to achieve by sending out the photo initially was that whether I am the man holding the booze in my hand or the gentleman speaking in front of the president of the United States and him obviously laughing about it, it's the same person. No matter our classification, education level, our fashion sense, all of us deserve an opportunity. And if you don't care for how we present ourselves as individuals, then that's fine. Don't hire us. But at the same time, please do not kill us. We don't deserve to die as a result of how we dress.

CAMEROTA: And so, why do you think that that message in the wake of Michael Brown's death has gone viral and resonated so much? It seems like you really struck a chord.

LAWRENCE: Well, absolutely. I think there is a multitude of things that are at play. First and foremost, you have the George Zimmerman trial where Trayvon Martin was essentially vilified. He was turned into the villain, although he was the one that was followed in the matter, and he was basically -- they portrayed him as the aggressor in the attack. And George Zimmerman being exonerated in that instance troubled quite a few people.

And very recently, you had Eric Garner's incident in New York, where he died of a chokehold for selling untaxed cigarettes. You couple these things with Michael Brown's incident, and it's very easy to see that we as African Americans in the United States of America can very easily see ourselves in this role. And also have to truly question something that should be rhetorical. What would happen, how would they tell the story if it was me in that position?

CAMEROTA: Yes.

LAWRENCE: Would they paint me as a person that, you know, was capable of doing the things that they allege, even though I was the person that was unarmed?

CAMEROTA: Sure.

LAWRENCE: Or would they simply allow me to be who I am without portraying me in a bad light or portraying me in a light at all.

CAMEROTA: I think that resonated with people.

I think it did too, CJ. L.Z., I want to bring you in because I'm curious about the social media surrounding Michael Brown. Is this all for people to vent, or are they galvanized somehow by this to action?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: What I think and you speak particularly of the African American community, if you look over the last 50 years or so, the main way that information was exchanged in the community during the civil rights movement was at church. As that began to take a back seat to the way we communicate with each other, it became the black press and it became radio.

Today you see it on social media. And the reason why is one, the black press has taken a hit like every other form of press because of the recession in early 2000s. But also, the advent of the mobile device. And black community being early adapters. And so, I think twitter and facebook and all forms of social media like Instagram are the new way in which African Americans choose to educate each other, encourage each other, make jokes with each other, in addition to the more traditional mediums that we're used to seeing with other communities.

CAMEROTA: And that part is obviously very positive to form a community. But of course there is the downside and the negativity. And that's what say, that group anonymous, the activist group that hacked into they say the Ferguson police department. And then released what appears to be the wrong name and picture of a police officer.

GRANDERSON: Right. And they're anonymous. So we don't know if they're black or not, right? We don't know what color they are, or where that started from.

But, you know, with all forms of communication, with all forms of media, you will have the opportunity to have a negative response and a positive response. If you wrote a book that people didn't agree with, they can have protests, burn your book, they can have rage.

I remember the rebellion against disco and people crushing CDs and LPs and baseball fields because they hated that form of communication. So twitter is nothing different. It's an opportunity. It's like a Rorschach test, right? It is like you look at it and you take away from it whatever you want to, and you put into it, you project into your own stuff.

CAMEROTA: Yes. You're going old school with the disco reference, I like that. L.Z. and CJ, thank you so much for the discussion.

GRANDERSON: Thank you.

LAWRENCE: Absolutely. Thank you for having us.

CAMEROTA: Thank you so much. All right. Let's go back to Don.

LEMON: Thank you, Ali. We are live from a peaceful protest in Ferguson, Missouri over the shooting death of Michael Brown.

And up next, did officials drop the ball in this case? And are they handling it better now? We'll talk about that.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: You're looking at Ferguson, Missouri there on your screen. It is a peaceful night in Ferguson. There are protests, but thus far there have been no clashes between police and protesters. And of course we're keeping an eye on it. And Don Lemon is on the ground for us.

So would things be different tonight if the officer involved in the shooting of Michael Brown had been wearing a camera? The technology exists, but not everyone is in favor of it.

We're joined again by Bernard Kerik. He is the former New York City police commissioner, Chief Jeffrey Blackwell of the Cincinnati police department and CNN Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona. Gentlemen, thanks so much for stick around.

Chief Blackwell, do your officers in Cincinnati wear cameras?

CHIEF JEFFREY BLACKWELL, CINCINNATI POLICE: Not currently. But we are actually somewhat ironically that you ask that question, we are actually in the process of wear testing body cameras at this moment to determine whether or not we're going to include those in what we do in Cincinnati.

CAMEROTA: And what would the advantage be to wearing -- to your officers wearing cameras?

BLACKWELL: Well, I believe that they promote better behavior, both on the part of the officer and on the part of the people who we encounter, the citizens. I think they promote better behavior. And they provide obviously a record of what actually transpired. In this case, in St. Louis, I think that would have been invaluable to the city there. And it may have prevented all of this turmoil.

CAMEROTA: Bernie, do you think the cameras and officers in New York City would promote better behavior of all parties?

BERNARD KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: I don't necessarily -- you know, you can't say. Cops are going to react differently. And my concern would be on whether it dissuaded them from, you know, how they act with the community in general.

If you could have a system where the cameras were activated like they are in cars, on a car stop, when there is an interaction, a confrontation, a violent confrontation, but to force an officer to have one of these things eight hours a day, everything he says, you know, whether he is confronting someone or not, you know, I think it's going to create an issue with the staff.

CAMEROTA: And why, Bernie? I mean, why do you think they would be hamstrung by wearing a camera?

KERIK: Well, look at it this way. If somebody attached a camera to you, personally, for eight hours, and everything you said, working or not working, it's going to be recorded. Somebody is going to have access to it. You're talking to your partner. You're talking to people in the room. You're talking on the phone to someone. There is a lot that could be recorded. I have no objections to cameras for the confrontations, for -- I put cameras in the cars in New York city. I put cameras in Rykers (ph) for extractions out of cells and violent confrontations. I don't have an objection for the cameras per se. But I think to attach a camera to someone, anyone, eight hours a day, it's going to create a hindrance for them in many ways.

CAMEROTA: It's dangerous for you to use that analogy with a newscaster because we kind of like it.

Colonel Francona, there are cameras everywhere now. There are cameras on the streets. We're so often all on camera. Where do you fall on this debate?

LT. COL. RICK FRANCONA, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, I'm going to defer to the professionals since I'm not in law enforcement. But I think I like what the commission is saying. The interactions, the confrontations, the interactions with the public, of course I think that's a great idea. It gives you that transparency you need. And a lot of the problems we are having right now in Ferguson could have been avoided had we had a record of what is going on. But I also like the not the invasion privacy that the commissioner refers to.

CAMEROTA: You are right. Of course, that's the double edged sword. So chief, Chief Blackwell, tell us about your pilot project there, and how long you're going to put this into effect to see if it works for your officers.

BLACKWELL: Well, we're going give it a very thorough overview. Commissioner Kerik brings up some very valid points that especially here in Ohio, because we have very liberal public records laws. And so he brings up some tremendous points about how you keep records, the fact that when do you turn the camera on and off. Officers are faced with very stressful situations. And so eight hours of footage may not be necessary. But you have to turn them on at critical times. And if you have to do that, then the officer's attention is diverted away from officer safety. So we certainly don't want to put our officers at risk by forcing them to turn on a technology device in the heat of the moment.

CAMEROTA: Very quickly, Bernie, if we had had cameras in Ferguson, do you think we would have waited six days so far for information?

KERIK: No. I think you would have more information than you have now. But listen, the investigative process as the chief will I think would agree, the investigative process has to be thorough. And it takes a while to get all the witnesses, all the evidence, all the ballistic, all the forensics. It takes a while to get that done. And what you want is you want to make sure it's thorough. And hopefully that's what they're doing.

CAMEROTA: All right, gentlemen. Chief Blackwell, Bernard Kerik, Lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona, thanks for your expertise. It's great to talk to you tonight.

KERIK: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: And when we come back the officer on the latest on the shooting of Michael Brown. And Don Lemon is on the ground in Ferguson. Don, what do you have?

LEMON: Yes. What comes after his name is released? We're hearing his name will possibly be released tomorrow, Alisyn. We'll tell you more than right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Welcome back, everyone, to our continuing coverage here in Ferguson, Missouri, where another night of protests taking place after the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown. And we have learned that police will identify the officer involved tomorrow. Back again with us is Bernard Kerik and Chief Jeffrey Blackwell and lieutenant Colonel Rick Francona.

Gentlemen, thank you for coming back and speaking to me about this. I think it's important to talk about. Before we get our conversation going, though, let's listen to what the president had to say today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There is never an excuse for violence against police or for those who would use this tragedy as a cover for vandalism or looting. There is also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protests or to throw protesters in jail for lawfully exercising their first amendment rights. And here in the United States of America, police should not be bullying or arresting journalists who are just trying to do their jobs.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: Chief, my first question is to you. Since being named the head of security in Ferguson today, Captain Ron Johnson, he really has made this very personal. He talked about his own son, talked about growing up in the community, and he has called the community his home. How powerful and important is that to this community and to keeping the peace here?

BLACKWELL: You know, I really like what I see and what I hear from Captain Johnson. I think he is going to be the difference maker that begins the reconciliation that is necessary in that community. He seems honest and authentic. And I think people trust him, and they know that he is going to make change.

LEMON: So colonel, should this have really risen to a level where the president of the United States is having to make a statement about it?

FRANCONA: Yes, that's very interesting that he would come out. And I think this is a reaction to what we saw last night. What we saw last night was a very military looking operation, very threatening to the people. And I think that caused much of the confrontation, rather than keeping it in check.

So I think it's necessary that we have captain out there ratcheting this down. If you look what you can see last night and look on what we see tonight, total difference. What you saw last night was almost an armed confrontation. What you're seeing tonight is real police work.

LEMON: Yes. Johnson. Ron Johnson. Was the governor too late to respond? I mean, were you pleased with the action that you saw here today? And I want to have to go to Bernie Kerik.

KERIK: You know what, Don, I was pleased to see the governor today. But I have to say I personally think we should have seen the governor a few days ago. And I think the most important statement given tonight was by Ron Johnson when he said I'm going to be holding a press conference every morning. That's extremely important.

LEMON: Right.

KERIK: There has to be constant communications between the law enforcement community and the law enforcement officers themselves and the community themselves. That was extremely, extremely important. That's going to be what makes a big difference here.

LEMON: Do you think that because of this, and we have been speaking throughout this broadcast, and really throughout the day here on CNN, about different police forces getting, you know, equipment from the Pentagon, the surplus from Afghanistan and Iraq and in other wars. Do you think that other municipalities will reconsider that, having seen this?

KERIK: For me, Don?

LEMON: Yes.

KERIK: Listen, I think there is a need for it. As I said earlier, I think, you know, there are agencies that require it in a post-9/11 world. We need a special operations type unit in some of the larger agencies, the bigger agencies. But I have to tell you, I do not endorse a lot of the smaller agencies that get this equipment, that don't know how to use it, that don't have the training, that don't have interoperability with the larger agencies, don't have intercommunications with the larger agencies. I think it could be -- it's a waste of money, a waste of time.

LEMON: And chief, I have to go, but it also just to follow up on that question, the optics. It looks bad. I mean, it doesn't, you know, some people say they may need it for their community. But my God, it certainly looks bad when you see people pointing those types of weapons at civilians.

BLACKWELL: Absolutely, Don. You cannot begin to heal when you have a line drawn in the sand. And as long as that militarization look exists there, there is going to be tension and fear and mistrust. So hopefully, cooler heads prevail and the officers learn that they can't look like that in Ferguson Missouri and expect people to receive the message that they are delivering.

LEMON: All right. Thank you, everyone. Rick Francona, we'll see you again. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back now live in Ferguson, Missouri. Boy, what a different police tactics and a few hours make. It is looking like where protests look like and not in the middle war zone tonight, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Don, it has been great to watch your reporting. And great to have you on the ground there and great that things have remained peaceful.

I'll see you back here in New York.

All right. That's going to do it for us tonight. Stay with CNN for the latest on events in Ferguson, Missouri, all night.

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