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Missouri Protests; Protests Take Violent Turn; Reporter Arrested

Aired August 14, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: You are watching CNN on this Thursday. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for joining me.

We begin with a first in the wake of this story out of Ferguson, Missouri. We have now heard from President Barack Obama, speaking publicly about what one protester has described as a war zone. I'm not talking about Iraq or Gaza, but smack dab there on the map, Ferguson, Missouri, just outside of St. Louis.

You have seen these pictures play out. I mean this is a town of some 21,000. It has now endured a fourth consecutive night of violence over Saturday's deadly police shooting of unarmed African-American teenager Michael Brown.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He was 18 years old. His family will never hold Michael in their arms again. And when something like this happens, the local authorities, including the police, have a responsibility to be open and transparent about how they are investigating that death and how they are protecting the people in their communities. There is never an excuse for violence against police. There's also no excuse for police to use excessive force against peaceful protests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That was the president just a little while ago. And these are pictures from the evenings here in this town. Unlike Monday, when looters took to the streets in Ferguson, police are now the ones accused of being out of control.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The sound that you're hearing is a crowd control tactic. It's ear-piercing. It actually hurts your ear drums.

There it goes. They're firing on to the crowd. Ow! (EXPLETIVE DELETED). They are firing rubber bullets. (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Not just ear-piercing sirens. Witnesses say police from Ferguson and St. Louis County, that's the agency now taking the lead on investigating this young man's killing, they have used rubber bullets. You see all the smoke. They used tear gas. Overcall, excessive force on people. That's what witnesses say.

The police have also dismantled TV camera positions and detained and then released two journalists. We'll be talking live with one of them in a matter of minutes. In all, a dozen people were arrested. Police say some protesters were using and tossing Molotov cocktails. The president did say he spoke today with the governor of Missouri, Governor Jay Nixon, who promised changes are ahead. But he wouldn't get specific just yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JAY NIXON, MISSOURI: We just can't have lawlessness. In that sense today, I would make a little announcement later. I've got availability for the press here at 3:00 this afternoon. We're working through a number of operational things to make some shifts that I think you all will see a different tone.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So we will hear, once again, from the governor in two hours. And here she is, Ana Cabrera, live for us in Ferguson.

And so, Ana, we've heard from a number of people, we mention the president, we mentioned the governor of Missouri. We also just heard from the police chief there where you are. What did he just say?

ANA CABRERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think there's certainly an intent to have better communication here on the ground to try to kind of calm the situation out here. And I think that's an understatement how I just put it, because the situation has gotten so heated, so passionate. Everybody's sort of all hands on deck in doing what they can to try to put out the proverbial flames in this situation.

Now the police chief addressed a number of things. One of the things that stood out at his press conference had to do with the officer's name being released. Just today, there were more rumors floating around about who this officer was, and he says that name was not accurate. And because of the rumors and the buzz that's happening and this increased escalation of unrest, he says they are now considering putting that name out sooner rather than later. But, still, not giving a time line on that.

He also addressed the situation that happened last night in which protesters tell us that the police in this situation were the aggressors. And he had this to say about how they hoped to handle that situation a little bit differently tonight.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHIEF TOM JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE: It's a powder keg. And we all recognize that. And that's why we're going to try to facilitate the protests tonight and we hope the protesters recognize we are trying to facilitate, to help everybody bring this down. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So you can see behind me, people are gathering, people are crossing the street. This is just outside the police station. And we're seeing much larger crowds here, Brooke, than we saw here 24 hours ago. It makes you wonder if this is an indicator about tonight's protest being bigger than we've seen. Everybody, both protesters and police, I think, want the same thing, and that is peace, answers and justice following the death of Michael Brown.

BALDWIN: That's exactly what the president was calling for, healing and peace, but also finding the truth over what happened. I know, Ana, you actually yourself witnessed a confrontation, what, between protesters and the mayor of Ferguson. Tell me what happened.

CABRERA: It was right after an interview with our Ashleigh Banfield. In fact, the mayor was standing where I am standing right now. And as he was taking off his microphone to leave, he turned and he was basically swarmed by a group of the protesters who had come from across the street and wanted to get their voices out there. They wanted the mayor to hear them because they feel like their message just isn't coming across either the right way or isn't being understood. And it was a very heated exchange.

I'll say it seemed rather respectful, but voices were raised. And we talked and heard from one woman who was among those protesters talking directly to the mayor. And she urged that one thing that didn't happen last night was that police officers had very clear identification. Because people are coming out there in costumes and I think that's part of what people are concerned about in the evening protests, when it gets dark, and there are bigger groups gathering in the street, including police coming with their tactical gear.

Brooke.

BALDWIN: Ana Cabrera, thank you so much, reporting for us from Ferguson.

I just want to bring another voice in, CNN's senior legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin.

And so, Jeff Toobin, just in the wake, too, as I was discussing with Ana, we heard from the Ferguson police chief and he talked a little bit -- because much ado, and perhaps rightfully so, calling for the naming of this police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown. The police chief, if I heard him correctly, said, you know, listen, there is this exception to the law in the state of Missouri, because of death threats certain people are receiving, they don't want to release this police officer's name. Can you just tell me about this exception to the law?

JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, Missouri, like a lot of states, has what's known as the sunshine law, which basically says government records should become public promptly. There does appear to be -- it's a little murky, frankly -- an exception in certain circumstances where disclosure of the information, in this case a name, could present an immediate danger. That's what the government is invoking here. The American Civil Liberties Union in Missouri has already - has just today filed a lawsuit saying that exception doesn't apply. We want the name.

It's frankly, as I read the law, kind of a hard question. I don't know how a court will come out. Frankly, just given the size of this police department, it's only about 60 people. I have to believe this name is going to come out correctly through the news media sooner rather than later. But this lawsuit is now proceeding as well.

BALDWIN: You bring up the size of the police force, which gets me to my next point. And, yes, we heard from Missouri Governor Jay Nixon just a little while ago and he sort of eluded to, you know, shifts, operational shifts. We don't know the specificity to what he was referring, but we'll hear from him in two hours. It could be on the police force, maybe not. But I have heard you on TV saying that it seems to you that the police department in Ferguson, Missouri, does not seem up to the task of protecting its citizens, that they're in over their heads.

TOOBIN: Absolutely. You know, crowd control is a skill that law enforcement learns. It can be done well, it can be done badly. And, you know, this police force has seemed at every opportunity, and especially last night, to have escalated confrontations instead of doing what they should do, which is try to calm things down. You look at what they use -- stun guns, tear gas, rubber bullets. That is not something that is commonly used in the United States. It's sometimes, but it's very uncommon. And I think a more experienced, broader coalition of forces, the state police, perhaps even federal National Guard, would do a lot better to keep everyone safe because last night was really a disaster. And, of course, the arrest of the - the journalist, which is -- which is bad in and of itself.

BALDWIN: Hello, freedom of press.

TOOBIN: Right.

BALDWIN: We're talking to Wesley Lowery from "The Washington Post" in a matter of minutes. We're working on getting him hooked up. But in the meantime, you know, just -- I'm just curious your overall impressions. When you see the scenes and you mentioned the rubber bullets and the tear gas and calling maybe for the National Guard to protect the citizens instead of the police department itself. I mean when you look at the pictures - I mean when I logged on to see - to "The New York Times" this morning, the first picture I saw, you know, it wasn't an image of Michael Brown, it was an image of, you know, these police officers with, you know, their full regalia, and, you know, the tanks. And then, you know, you saw the looting on Sunday night, the destruction. The mayor talked about another building burned last night. Your impressions of what's happening here.

TOOBIN: Well, I have to say, I have developed a considerable skepticism for what I hear from this police department. You know, one thing you've mentioned a lot of people have said so far is Molotov cocktails were thrown at the police. Really? You know what a Molotov cocktail is? It's a bottle full of gasoline. It's like a small bomb. I didn't see any pictures of Molotov cocktails. It seems to me that this -- that this police department has engaged in overreaction.

Think about the simple act of pointing a rifle at people. Do you know what a provocative act that is? How most police officers are taught, you don't aim a rifle at someone except in a very, very dire circumstance. We saw that often from this police department. You need people in charge who are going to bring in the community, bring in community leaders, calm things down, not escalate with this sort of Robo Cop stuff that we're seeing.

BALDWIN: Keep the peace.

TOOBIN: That's kind of a '90s - that's kind of a '90s reference, Robo Cop. I hope people get it.

BALDWIN: I've seen it multiple times and I know exactly what you're talking about.

Jeffrey Toobin, thank you. Thank you, from Washington.

We'll talk to actually a police chef coming up next hour and get his take on what many are saying, the militarization of police forces, not just in Ferguson, but all across the country. Thank you, sir, Mr. Toobin for me in Washington.

Plenty more coming up here on the crisis unfolding on the streets of this St. Louis suburb. Up next, we will talk to one of those two journalists who was detained, sitting in a holding cell last night by police in Ferguson, Missouri.

Also ahead, a headline today that we read. What white people can do about the killing of black men in America. We'll discuss with the man who calls this an epidemic, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

And, I mean, when you're watching this story unfolding on the streets of Ferguson, Missouri, the media presence is huge, and rightfully so. And one of those journalists in Ferguson is Pulitzer Prize winning journalist Wesley Lowery, a reporter for "The Washington Post." He and another journalist say they were arrested when working inside a McDonald's restaurant. Lowery started recording the confrontation on his cell phone. Take a look for yourself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your stuff. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm working on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop videotaping. Now, let's grab our stuff and go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) right to video tape your, sir (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hurry up. Let's go. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please don't wave your gun at me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You see me working. Please do not tell me not to use my (INAUDIBLE) -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's time to go. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Could you please not wave a gun at me.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're down to about 45 seconds. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) people are subject to arrest after I say the word (ph). (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now, is the street (INAUDIBLE) - can as you --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm trying to ask him questions -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't have time to ask questions. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) can I move my car.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can move your car if your car's out here. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is. That's what I was asking. You didn't have time to answer or you're (ph) just being mean?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a door over here. Let's go.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm going to walk (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's go. You can move. Let's go. Move.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, please -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's move. Let's move. Let's move this way. Here's - here's the door. This way or this way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And that was just the beginning of a very long night. He tweeted about the whole ordeal, saying officers decided we weren't leaving the McDonald's quickly enough, shouldn't have been taping them. He also tweeted this. Detained, booked, given answers to no questions, just -- then just let out. And, it's as if the arrest and the assaults never took place. Just opened the doors and let us out as if we'd let it go.

So far, no response from the Ferguson police chief about those detentions. But earlier today, President Obama did make these comments referring to those two arrests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Here in the United States of America, police should not be bullying or arresting journalists who are just trying to do their jobs and report to the American people on what they see on the ground. Put simply, we all need to hold ourselves to a high standard, particularly those of us in positions of authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And here he is live in Ferguson, Wesley Lowery of "Washington Post."

Wesley, we'll talk about your ordeal in just a minute, but I wanted to get your very first reaction. I'm sure you have been - you saw the president, notify (ph) the president alluding to your arrest, presumably. Your response?

WESLEY LOWERY, "WASHINGTON POST" REPORTER: You know, it's not just about me. There was also Ryan, as well. But there have also been a lot of other journalists here on the ground. When he says, you know, bullying and arresting, I think bullying is almost just as important. We saw an al Jazeera crew that had tear gas shot at them. I listened to a harrowing report on MSNBC of a reporter covered in tear gas as he was trying to report. Ever since I got here on Monday night, I've seen reporters being treated the same - I mean the same way that a looter would have been treated, the same way that, you know, a troublemaker, someone who is out here to cause problems, would be treated. You know, threatened on Monday night by police officers.

And so it's certainly -- you know, it's nice to hear - it's nice to hear that from the president of the United States, obviously. House Speaker John Boehner also put out a statement that alluded to, you know, journalists not being treated the correct way. And so, obviously, that's great to hear. But, you know, to be honest, right now I'm just trying to focus on getting back to reporting on the streets. We've got protests going on right over my shoulder right now.

BALDWIN: I can hear the people shouting, so let's get to it. Let's get to your experience and then we'll talk about what you're seeing, what you're covering, the story in and of itself. But just do me a favor, take me back to McDonald's last night. You're there with your colleague, a reporter with "The Huffington Post." You're charging your phone. Maybe you're eating a little dinner. And then police walk in. Tell me what happened.

LOWERY: Police come in. Initially they clear - there's maybe six or seven people who are there eating. McDonald's was open and they told people, things are getting a little hot, you should probably leave. You should work your way out of here. So the residents started leaving. But Ryan and I, who have been in -- kind of out here during a lot of these protests, the idea that the protests were moving closer to us, and like we were not being told to leave, was not something that was going to scare us away.

A few minutes later, the officers came back and now they said this is an evacuation, you have to leave. At which point we began videotaping. The idea of these armed officers evacuating McDonald's. Not having anything to do with us, but the idea of that happening was going to be compelling video no matter what. The officers took exception to the fact they were being videotaped. We had a little back and forth about whether or not that was allowed. And as I tried to pack up my bag and all my stuff with one hand and videotape with the other, they got frustrated that I wasn't moving quickly enough, gave me some contradictory information about what door they wanted me to go out of. And then as my bag slipped off my shoulder, I asked them if I could just pause for one second to fix it. They decide that enough was enough, let's take them, cuffed me, slammed me up against the soda machine and moved me out.

Again, it all ended eventually at the police station, once the chief got word that two journalists had been detained and he said, get them out of there. So they opened the doors and let us out, declined to give us any information about who the officers were or what their badge numbers were. We have no paperwork. So as far as I'm concerned, it doesn't exist in the eyes of the police department. And that's something that to me was -- the treatment wasn't that bad but the idea that someone could be handled that way and then detained and there's no paper trail of that, as a journalist, to me, that didn't feel right.

BALDWIN: Wesley, I'm listening to you recount this story and I realize, at this point in time, you have recounted this story certainly more than a few times. But, I mean, following this, especially last night, and following your Twitter, I think one of the words you used on your Twitter feed was emotional. I mean this was emotional for you. You are a journalist, in Ferguson, Missouri, there to do your job. You get arrested. You have no explanation why. Tell me why it was emotional.

LOWERY: That is exactly why it's emotional. I mean I think any type of altercation with a police officer and authority figure, the idea that both Ryan and I were doing nothing outside of what we had been doing for days on the ground here, and then now we are being man handled. I mean the idea of someone with a large weapon speaking to you threateningly or dealing with you that way, it's something that I think any reasonable human being is going to become uncomfortable with. And then the idea that there was just going to be no information about it. It was very frustrating.

But I have to tell you, and I alluded to it earlier, the moment I got the most emotional was actually back in my hotel room when I finally got back. I couldn't sleep, so I was reading all of the reports, things that happened while I was locked up or while I wasn't able to be on the ground. And there was this report on MSNBC of a reporter doing a live phoner as tear gas is raining down and he can't breathe. It was a reporter I know well. And tears came to my eyes. And I was on MSNBC earlier today and they played that clip and tears came to my eyes again.

The reporters here are getting -- I think are getting a little flack from maybe some of our friends in New York and D.C. who think maybe we're trying to make this about us. But the fact of the matter is, when you're on the ground here, tear gas and rubber-encased bullets do not discriminate between protester or reporter.

BALDWIN: No.

LOWERY: Do not discriminate between looter and reporter. And so we're all out here dealing with this the same way the residents are.

BALDWIN: The line is blurred. And I would be remiss not to ask you, just mentioned this a moment ago, but just hearing the honking behind you, tell me what's going on.

LOWERY: Of course. As has been the case every day, out here by the QT (ph), which was what was burned down earlier this week, we have protesters over here to my shoulder, they're saying hands up, don't shoot. Many of them have been organized by local church groups. And again, largely - completely, at this point, what I've seen so far, peaceful. A lot of church groups, they have signs, but hands up, don't shoot is the chant. It's been the chant of the entire week down here in Ferguson. People out here, still upset. They want answers. They want the name of the police officer. They want to know what's going on. Why Michael Brown was shot, where he was shot. We still have a lot of information we don't have in this case.

BALDWIN: At this point in time, though, once -- it has to happen eventually, once that name of that police officer is brought to the forefront, once he is identified, it seems to me that the trust, Wesley, between, you know, this community and that police department is shattered. I mean have people even begun to say to you how it would begin to be fixed, even once this name comes out, once the time line comes out of what really happened?

LOWERY: In my conversations with dozens, probably over 100 residents here and protesters and some of the community leaders, I have not heard anyone lay out a plausible path for reconciliation between the police force and the community here. This is a community that is hot right now. They are frustrated, they are angry, they are telling me that they don't trust the police. That they have not trusted the police before this. But I remember that first night on Monday someone saying, that could have been me, that could have been my seven-year- old daughter laying with multiple bullets in the middle of the street for walking down it.

Like I said, people here are very upset. And, obviously, these clashes with police officers these last few nights, while there seems to have been violence potentially on both sides here, it certainly is not helping anything.

BALDWIN: Wesley Lowery, please keep doing what you're doing as a journalist. I salute you. And keep shining that light on what is happening in St. Louis area, Missouri. Wesley, thank you so much, with "The Washington Post." Coming up, it was the CNN interview that sparked a tense confrontation

between the mayor and protesters there in Ferguson. We'll play that for you next.

Plus this. A massive U.S. military rescue of stranded refugees in Iraq may not be necessary after all. We'll talk to one expert who says this is not an American project.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Within the past 90 minutes, President Obama proclaimed the siege of Mt. Sinjar in Iraq is over. He said a mission to rescue thousands of Iraqis who had scaled that mountain to escape the terrorist army ISIS now is unlikely because it's apparently not necessary. Here's the president.

All right, so those are pictures of the mountain. Hopefully we can queue up the president for you in a second. But the president also said, 130 military advisers he had dispatched to Iraq to assess that particular situation, they will be coming home soon. The 250 other troops sent to advise the Iraq's armed forces, they will remain.

Iraq's bigger crisis will not be solved so quickly. The advance of ISIS has triggered a massive exodus across northern Iraq. You have hundreds of thousands of people, they are desperate, they are homeless, without possessions and still in fear of this militant group.