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Governor Rick Perry Press Conference On Indictment; Ferguson, Missouri Seesaws Between Peaceful Protests and Surging Tension

Aired August 16, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good afternoon. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Poppy Harlow joining you from New York.

Right now we are waiting to hear from Texas governor Rick Perry. It will be his first public address since being indicted yesterday on two felony charges of abusing his power. Perry's lawyer says the charges are, quote, "political abuse." Soon we will hear from Perry himself.

But first, major developments in Ferguson, Missouri. The town's fragile peace crumbled during last night's protests of the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown. Looters struck three stores in Ferguson. Police in riot gear really did not intervene much at all. Those peaceful protesters tried to stop the looters.

Also another very significant development, CNN has just learned that the justice department asked Ferguson police to hold off on releasing this surveillance video that allegedly shows Brown in a convenience store threat. Ferguson police released that video yesterday, though, despite the justice department's objections. We'll get into much more of that this hour as well.

But as I said at the top, any minute now Texas governor Rick Perry will be speaking out publicly for the first time after being indicted yesterday on felony charges. We are awaiting those live comments coming to us from Austin. He is accused of allegedly abusing his power by trying to pressure a district attorney, there in Austin, to resign.

The Texas governor is accused of coercion of a public servant. If convicted he could face a sentence of two to 10 years in prison. Perry is also accused of abuse of his official capacity. If convicted on that charge, he could face a possible prison sentence of five to 99 years.

Now, Perry's attorney called this indictment a, quote, "political abuse of the court system," but the special prosecutor on the case told "the San Antonio Express News" today that those claims from Perry's attorney are, quote, "ridiculous." The Republican governor is considered a possible 2016 presidential candidate.

Soon we will hear from the governor himself. As I said, we will bring you those comments live as soon as they have them. But this is his first -- this is really his first public address since he was indicted on those two charges of abusing power.

I want to see, guys, do we have Peter Hamby who can join us now? I believe we do.

Peter, I hope you can hear me. Let's go straight to Governor Perry and we'll bring you in on the back side.

GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: Thank you all for coming out here today.

As governor, I took an oath to faithfully uphold the constitution of the state of Texas. A pledge that I have kept every day as I have worked on behalf of Texans for the last 14 years. That's the same constitution that clearly outlines the authority of any governor to veto items at his or her discretion.

Just as I have, following every legislative session during my service as governor, I exercised this authority to veto funding for an office whose leadership had lost the public's confidence by acting inappropriately and unethically. I wholeheartedly and unequivocally stand behind my veto and I'll continue to defend this lawful action of my executive authority as governor.

We don't settle political differences with indictments in this country. It is outrageous that some would use partisan political theatrics to rip away at the very fabric of our state's constitution. This indictment amounts to nothing more than abuse of power. And I cannot and I will not allow that to happen.

I intend to fight against those who would erode our state's constitution and laws, purely for political purposes, and I intend to win. I'll explore every legal avenue to expedite this matter and bring it to a swift conclusion. I am confident that we will ultimately prevail, that this farce of a prosecution will be revealed for what it is. And those responsible will be held accountable. Thank you. I'll be happy to answer a question or two.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: Governor, you talk about all the confidence there in (INAUDIBLE) office. Do you believe that the indictment affects the public's confidence in the office of governor?

PERRY: Here's what I think is really important for people to understand, not just in Texas but in this country, and that is we have seen an office in the form of the Travis county district attorney's office, the lead legal individual for criminal affairs in this county and overseeing public officials who conducted themselves in an incredibly inappropriate way, stopped for a DWI with a blood alcohol level almost three times the legal limit. An individual who when booked in had to be restrained, was abusive to law enforcement, was kicking the door.

I think Americans and Texans who have seen this agree with me, that that is not an individual who is heading up an office that we can -- that we can afford to fund. Now, the people of Travis County may decide that that is the type of individual that they want in that office. But as the governor of the state of Texas and as the independent, who has the authority constitutionally to decide whether we're going to spend state dollars on that, I made that decision and I said no. And given that information and given that choice again, that is exactly what I would do. UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: After this veto that you or your office

made some suggestion that you could restore the money if she would resign. Did that happen and is that appropriate?

PERRY: The details of my decision-making were very clear. I said early on that I was going to clearly veto those dollars as long as they had someone in that office who I had lost confidence in. And I did exactly what I said I would do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: (INAUDIBLE)

PERRY: You had your hand up.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE REPORTER: The question seems to be in this case, though, and in the minds of many people is not whether or not you have the constitutional veto authority, it's what many people say is a threat to that veto authority. What's your response to that?

PERRY: I disagree with you. I think there are a lot of people on both sides of the aisle, Democrats and Republicans, who have looked at this and understand it to be exactly what we're seeing, a political decision that has been made in Travis County.

I'm going to continue to do my job. I'm going to continue to deal with the big, important issues that are important to the people of the state of Texas and for that matter this country. We have a border that it is not secure because of what the federal government has failed to do.

Yesterday I talked to the mother of the border patrol agent who was gunned down in cold blood in front of his family by an individual who has come across this border multiple times, a criminal alien. That mother expects me to do the job and keep the citizens of this state safe, and that is what I am going to do from today until I leave office in January of 2015. Thank you.

HARLOW: All right. You just heard live comments there coming from Texas governor Rick Perry, again speaking out for the first time since he was indicted on those two felony charges of abusing his power yesterday.

I want to go straight to our political analyst Peter Hamby in Washington who has covered Governor Perry very closely for years.

OK, I want to get to his last comments on immigration, interesting that he brought it around to that at the end. But first let's start off with what you read from him. This is someone you've studied very closely. What did you read from the comments he made, calling it a farce of a prosecution, saying that it will be revealed for what it is. Also saying we do not settle political differences this way, saying time and time again this is purely political. I stand by what I did. I did nothing wrong. What do you make of his comments?

PETER HAMBY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, he kept hitting that home, Poppy, that this is a political decision made in Travis County, in Texas politics Travis County being a code word for a bunch of liberals just indicted me. This is a political attack. HARLOW: Right.

HAMBY: This is sort of what we all expected Perry to do was to come out very hard against this indictment because they have said ever since this indictment dropped last night, his attorneys have said as he just did in the press conference, this was in the scope of his constitutional authority. He has governor of the state has a right to veto money, especially in the case where a district attorney was arrested in quite embarrassing fashion in Travis County.

Look, and the other thing to note here, Poppy, is that the Perry team is kind of already winning the message war over this. Even before this press conference, Republicans -- remember, if he's running for president, he's got to win that Republican nomination first. Republicans are already rallying to his side. We've seen it on twitter just today. Ted Cruz, who's not really a political ally of Perry, even though they're from the same state, came out and said these charges were probably flimsy. Jeb Bush rallied to Perry's side. Even David Axelrod, President Obama's former adviser, tweeted earlier today that this indictment seems a little sketchy.

So in the court of public opinion, he seems to already be winning. Obviously, that's not the same as a legal fight, and we have to see if this actually goes to trial and all of that. This will probably drag on for many weeks and months to come.

But this is Perry just getting ahead of the message, defining it on his own terms. And frankly based on that performance we just saw, probably scoring some points with Republicans, Poppy.

HARLOW: And we know that this comes just about a week before he goes to those early primary states. He's going to go to New Hampshire first and go to South Carolina. So this is someone by pretty much all accounts is going to make that run for the White House in 2016.

Stay with me, Peter. I want to talk more about the politics of all of this. And as we do, I want to bring in Austin American-statesman reporter Tony Plohetski who is on the phone with us. You were just in the room as Perry made these remarks. What's your reaction?

TONY PLOHETSKI, REPORTER, AUSTIN AMERICAN-STATESMAN (via phone): Well, I think you can describe the governor as very angry and defiant and very steadfast in his belief that in his action he did nothing more than following his constitutional or using his constitutional veto authority. That has been his position from day one when he vetoed this line item, the $7.2 million line item in the budget. And once again he reiterated that in his news conference and vowed to continue to fight forward.

HARLOW: And to you, Peter, stay with us, Tony. To you, Peter, does it matter that Perry was very vocal and public about vetoing this money when he did it, saying, look, this isn't someone -- he just reiterated again, saying that Rosemary Lehmberg, the Democratic D.A. there in that county, is not someone that showed that she is deserving, Governor Perry said, of utilizing those public funds. Does it matter that it was public in that action and that it wasn't done in secret?

HAMBY: Yes. Look, if Perry had sort of quietly vetoed the money for this and Tony might know better, correct me if I'm wrong, but that gets to the heart of the coercion count of the indictment, that he publicly threatened to veto funding for this office and that's sort of where the abuse of power and the coercion comes in. If he had just vetoed the money, I'm not exactly sure the indictment would have happened.

And the other thing to note in this context is that as Perry said in the press conference, at the time he was very up front and vocal about this. You have to think that if the Perry team thought that it was legally dubious or criminally questionable or something likes that at the time, they would have handled the matter differently. I think they thought that they had genuinely the facts and the constitutional law of Texas on their side, Poppy.

HARLOW: Let's get to Tony. I want your reaction, tony, to this tweet that came out today from President Obama's former top adviser, David Axelrod. Let's pull it up on screen. Here's what he said. He said, quote, "unless he was demonstrably trying to scrap the ethics unit for other than his stated reasons, Perry's indictment seems pretty sketchy."

What is your reaction to that? Not only have we seen him get support from fellow Republicans, but he's getting support from David Axelrod?

PLOHETSKI: Well, I guess my reaction to that is that, you know, grand jury deliberations are confidential and they're secret. And we have reached out to the grand jurors who heard testimony and who saw evidence in this case. So the truth is, we don't really know the full details of what the evidence is. We may believe what we've seen and what we've heard that has been in the public domain, you know. And if the case rests on that, well, then people have questions about that. You also have to keep in mind, grand jury testimony and grand jury evidence is confidential under Texas law.

HARLOW: And, Tony, can you give our viewers some background on all of this. This has been going on for a long time. The grand jury started meeting back in April. But this public integrity unit that was run by the D.A. there, Rosemary Lehmberg, it was looking into investigating something called the cancer prevention and research institute of Texas, something that was really a big governor Perry initiative. What's the background here to this?

PLOHETSKI: Yes. So the public integrity unit has been around for decades. It investigates the ethics complaints of any state publicly elected official, so that particular unit has jurisdiction that reaches beyond Travis County.

It is true that at the time all of this was transpiring, the public integrity unit was investigating the actions of some officials of the cancer research institute. That ultimately did lead to the indictment of one of the officials. You know, some people have speculated that the governor may have had motives in trying to strip funding from that unit, but you know, that again is probably part of the evidence that the grand jury heard and we just don't know.

HARLOW: Right. We don't -- and, Peter, to you, I mean, it's important here to not directly -- you can't directly tie all of this until it is heard in a court of law.

HAMBY: Yes, of course. You know, we have the indictment. I mean, a lot of people have sort of compared this situation to the Chris Christie scandal in New Jersey. Another Republican governor running for president, embroiled in legal challenges. But you know, I don't see them as similar as all. We don't know the full scope of what the U.S. attorney, you know, in what is a federal investigation in New Jersey is going to yield. We haven't seen any of that.

In the case of Texas, we have the indictment. You know, the battle lines are drawn. But yes, look, it's possible that this could get killed before it even goes to trial. It's possible that it goes to trial and Perry gets acquitted. The big problem if that happens is political then.

Perry, Democrats will say, you know, is a governor who was indicted and that will show up in direct mail pieces and radio ads and things like that and maybe his Republican opponents down the line will start to draw contrasts with him over that. And one more point on the political front, I think that Axelrod tweet you mentioned earlier is actually a big deal.

HARLOW: Yes.

HAMBY: Texas Democrats out of the gate, Wendy Davis' gubernatorial campaign, battleground Texas, the sort of Obama organizing group, many liberal groups in Texas, called on Perry to resign. The fact that David Axelrod, one of the country's most famous Democrats and a savvy communicator who knows the power of his tweets said that, really kind of undercuts their argument, Poppy.

HARLOW: Yes. I thought that was really significant when we saw that come out. But you know, it is interesting, Perry is going to have to, you know, have to, you know, go through the process of being booked. And as tony has said earlier on CNN, likely released on bond, but you know, you also wonder how the optics of all of this play in as we approach 2016.

Appreciate it, Peter, for the expertise. Also Tony, thank you. We'll get back to you both more later on in the show. We'll be back right here on the CNN NEWSROOM after a quick break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: All right, we are going to get you the latest on the situation in Ferguson, Missouri, of course in just a moment. But we want to talk more about what just happened.

Texas governor Rick Perry coming out really hammering the indictment, those two felony charges against him, saying, quote, "this farce of a prosecution will be revealed for what it is." Perry just wrapped up speaking to reporters at the state capitol there in Austin, Texas. The three-term governor has been indicted on two felonies. It

includes a coercion of a public servant and abuse of his official capacity. He could face potential prison time. This all stems from the DUI arrest of Travis County district attorney, Democrat Rosemary Lehmberg, back in 2013.

Perry is accused of trying to force her to resign and then when she didn't resign, he allegedly followed through. And then we do know that he vetoed over $7 million in funding for this public integrity unit at the Travis County D.A.'s office. Here's what Perry had to say about that indictment. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERRY: This indictment amounts to nothing more than abuse of power. And I cannot and I will not allow that to happen. I intend to fight against those who would erode our state's constitution and laws purely for political purposes, and intend to win.

The lead legal individual for criminal affairs in this county and overseeing public officials who conducted themselves in an incredibly inappropriate way, stopped for a DWI with a blood alcohol level almost three times the legal limit. An individual who when booked in had to be restrained, was abusive to law enforcement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARLOW: I'm joined now by CNN political commentators Sally Kohn and Ben Ferguson.

Sally, to you first, your reaction to this. I mean, you were saying you think it could be both, a little bit political and a little bit factual.

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean, of course it's a little bit political. The whole situation was political, right? It's not just that this prosecutor had a DUI that Perry wants to remove, but this is the democratic strong hold in a Republican state. This is a part of the prosecutorial arm of both local and state government that holds Republicans in the state including Perry accountable.

HARLOW: Special prosecutor Michael McCrum vehemently denying that today saying look, he is saying that I, political or the grand jury here is political, neither are true.

KOHN: Well, his appointment, right, his appointment and the actual grand jury's findings, these may not be, but the whole kerfuffle, if you will, is certainly part political and part fact.

But the other reality is we have to let the facts play out, right? I mean, what's fascinating is Perry saying we don't use indictments, one of his quotes. We don't use indictments to settle political scores. Well, we don't cut funding and use veto threats to settle political scores either. That's not appropriate.

HARLOW: To be fair, I want to get Ben in here. Perry says that he thinks that the D.A. who was arrested for DWI and pled guilty. He said it's not an individual we can afford to fund. And he, as a governor, have a right to decide who that money should be allocated to?

KOHN: Well, you know, but the problem is we have checks and balances in our political system. So look, if Perry did that action and if the action is unlawful, the court will find it so. So it is appropriate to investigate not only whether the D.A. has abused power, which by the way there was a separate investigation that was closed, but also whether the governor has abused his power here.

HARLOW: I want to bring in Ben. Ben, you just sounded off on twitter, which is so unlike you to be vocal on how you think, really giving big, big praise to Perry on this one in your opinion.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, there's three things here that are obvious that a lot of people may not realize outside of Texas. One, this already played out in the public eye. If he was trying to do something behind the scenes or in a shady way, you don't openly go out and say this woman cannot be trusted with millions of dollars of funds when she is out there putting people's lives at risk.

There's a second part of this. She is a convicted individual. She is a criminal. She is one that went to jail. And there's people that don't like people that go to jail investigating people in politics that may be abusing their power.

So he openly said not behind closed doors, he said in front of cameras, he said on radio shows, I'm not going to give money to a woman that the public does not trust, who has gone to jail, who attacked the police. So if you're trying to commit a crime. If Governor Perry was trying to truly do something shady, would you say it before you ever did it, of course not. And that's the reason why this is so political.

HARLOW: Ben, as one of the reporters there in that press conference asked the governor, you know, a lot of the questioning here is around the fact of, you know, threatening. Was it, you know, threatening to her to say either step down or you're not going to get this money. It's one thing to say you're not getting this money because I don't think you're fit. It's another thing to, as these allegations are, to say step down or I'm going to do this.

FERGUSON: And I would say this. You have a woman who is a criminal and he says I'm not giving you money to be in charge of the people that you're supposed to be the investigator of people in public office that may be doing bad things. We cannot trust you. You attacked police, you drive drunk. You could have killed somebody. You can't be trusted with millions of dollars of taxpayers' dollars so I'm going to veto it. That to me doesn't seem like a threat. That to me seems like a governor who understands his role with a veto and he did it in public in front of everyone. He didn't hide it at all.

KOHN: But Ben, a couple of things. First of all, from a legal standpoint, Poppy is exactly right. It's the threat, it's the coercion is what under investigation. FERGUSON: That's not coercion. That's being a good governor.

KOHN: Number two, it should be the democratic voters of that democratic district to get to decide whether she stays in office and not a separate legislative branch, right? The executive branch having say-so over that, but the meta picture here which I find very funny is the same Republicans who are defending this, calling this a sham lawsuit, are the same ones who want to sue President Obama for --

FERGUSON: Totally different circumstance.

KOHN: Saying he's overstepping and he's been as public about that authority, as Ben saying because Governor Perry did it publicly. It can't be illegal.

HARLOW: Ben?

FERGUSON: Sally, it's a completely different scenario here and you know that. The difference here is the people in her own community even said they want her to step down and that's why she did not run for reelection because she knew the polling that she was going to be voted out by Democrats who did not trust her.

So I would say call her. Ask her as a criminal how the people in her community responded. They responded the same way governor Perry did, saying we don't trust you, we don't want you to have your job and we don't want you to have this money.

HARLOW: All right, guys, I'm getting the wrap, we've got to go. Really quickly to both of you and I mean short, quick answers here. Do the optics of this, either way that it ends up in the court of law, if it goes that far, Ben, you first. And to you sally, does this hurt governor Perry in a run for the White House in 2016?

FERGUSON: I think it helps him because it shows how political it is. I think it's going to come out in a way that's going to seem so partisan at the end of the day. I don't think he's worried about going to jail at all and most people including David Axelrod agreed with me.

KOHN: I agree with Ben. In the primaries it helps him, but you know, with the fringe Republican voters. But in the general election if he makes it there, no way does it help.

HARLOW: We'll be watching. Appreciate the expertise of both of you. You agree on something.

We'll go to break on that. And when we come back, unrest overnight in Ferguson, Missouri, where the recent shooting of that unarmed teenager has got this city still on edge. We are going to take you live to Ferguson for the latest, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: The small town of Ferguson, Missouri, is again seesawing between peaceful protests and surging tension. (VIDEO CLIP PLAYING)

HARLOW: Furious protesters broke into stores really in the middle of the night smashing and stealing things while riot police seemed to do very little to stop them this time. This is the town where a policeman shot and killed an unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, a week ago today.

The police department there has been deemed by some to have been too aggressive with those protesters who took to the streets in anger after that shooting and killing. This is one reason the mood in Ferguson changed from quieter to angry, really, really volatile overnight.

Police yesterday released video they say is Michael Brown scuffling with a convenience store employee who accused him of stealing. Just about ten minutes after that video was recorded, Michael Brown was shot dead.

I want to talk about that video with CNN's Rene Marsh in Washington and also Ed Lavandera in Ferguson, Missouri.

Ed, let me go first to you. So we saw video and we have all seen now throughout the say, the video of what transpired there overnight. People, many people in that town were very upset that when the police chief in Ferguson released the name of the officer that shot and killed Michael Brown that they at the same time released the video from the convenience store while also saying there is no apparent connection between the two. What can you tell us?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: I was at that press conference yesterday morning when that was happening, and it was incredible just how quickly that infuriated a crowd of people that had gathered there to hear the police chief's comments where they were expecting just simply to hear the name of 28-year-old Darren Wilson, the officer involved in the shooting.

And quickly, the police chief left the press conference yesterday morning without taking any questions, surrounded by five or six other police officers to get him out of that situation. They had held the press conference at the convenience store in that neighborhood that had been burned down several days before.

So instantly, it was incredible to see just how quickly that infuriated many of the residents here in Ferguson who clearly saw this as an attempt by the police department to smear the name of Michael Brown, the victim here.

HARLOW: And you know, Ed, I think it's interesting. You were able to sit down and speak with a friend of that officer who killed Michael Brown, Darren Wilson. And it's one of the first times we've heard from someone that knows him. What did he tell you?

LAVANDERA: This is a man by the name of Jake Shepherd. They had gone to high school together, played hockey together. He described Darren Wilson as a courteous good-natured human being who became a police officer because in his words had a big heart who wanted to help people. He was a young police officer, six years as a police officer, four of those years working in the Ferguson police department.

But it's interesting, he lives about 20, 25 miles away from Ferguson in another St. Louis suburb, you know, far from here. But his friend said, you know, that when he first heard the news that the officer by the name of Darren Wilson was involved in the shooting, he says he just simply couldn't believe it. And his friend says that he's convinced that Darren Wilson would never have wanted -- this is the last thing he ever -- his friend would have ever wanted and that if he did something like this, that he believes that he was truly fearful for his own life.

HARLOW: Yes. I think we're going to hear from him in your interview, your piece on him a little later, Ed. Appreciate the reporting and the update there from Ferguson. I know it's been raining all morning and been calm but we'll see how things progress through the night. That is when we have seen those protests heighten and become more volatile.

Ed Lavandera, thank you.

And to you, Renee, so the U.S. justice department, we are learning from Evan Perez from his source saying that they did not want police in Ferguson to release those images or that surveillance video from the convenience store, but Ferguson police still did.

RENE MARSH, CNN AVIATION AND GOVERNMENT REGULATION CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely, that's the case here. We're getting new details about the back and forth that was happening behind the scenes before the video was released.

Again, as those sources are saying, the department of justice opposed this. They did not think it was a good idea because the thinking was it would escalate emotions, that you know, the intensity of the situation there on the ground. However, we saw Friday come and that video was indeed released.

Now that is really -- this new information about the back and forth, DOJ saying don't release it and the Ferguson police department releasing it anyway, is really prompting some harsh criticism. I just got off of the phone with the congressman who represents his district, includes Ferguson. We're talking about Congressman Lacy Clay and he had this to say -- very, very sharp criticism. He says, and I'm quoting him. It's indicative of the typical arrogance of local law enforcement in the St. Louis area. Typical, just shows you how far that they're willing to go to control the narrative in order to protect one of their own who has certainly committed a crime.

Again, very strong words from the congressman who represents this area here. So the question now, Poppy, if the department of justice had very good reason for saying it's not a good idea or giving this advice, do not release the video, why did the Ferguson police department act against what DOJ said?

We don't have an official word from them so far today, but we do know on Friday, when it was released, the police chief said that he did it because he felt the pressure from the media. We filed this freedom of information request and he thought that the media would sue if he didn't release it. That's the reason he gave on Friday, Poppy.

HARLOW: Rene, quickly, is it odd for the justice department to ask a local law enforcement authority to withhold something like that? Is this something that occurs often?

MARSH: Well, we can say this. Look, it was advice. They did not advise it. The justice department cannot tell the Ferguson police department what they can and cannot do. They don't -- the Ferguson police department doesn't have to listen either. And we see that they did not.

I think in this situation, the justice department has been very hands- on in the sense that they have teams on the ground as well and it's a very volatile situation. Emotions are high. And, you know, in the spirit of keeping things calm, they probably thought it was a good idea to weigh in. This is not a good move. They did that, but again, we know the Ferguson police department did not follow suit.

HARLOW: Certainly, a significant development in all of this. Thanks, Renee, I appreciate it.

We'll be right back with more of what's happening on the ground right now in Ferguson.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Well, those violent protests flared once again in the early morning hours in Ferguson, Missouri, when crowds of people tore apart some local businesses, looting stores, causing fire damage to at least one building.

And joining me to talk about the situation in Ferguson and all that has been unfolding over what has been now a week, culture critic and also writer Michaela Angela Davis and also CNN political commentators Sally Kohn and Ben Ferguson.

Michaela, let me start with you. I want to talk -- we were talking early and you say I look at this from the perspective of a mother. And we heard from the family yesterday, Michael Brown's family, they say this is victim blaming. They are very upset the police in Ferguson released video that allegedly shows Michael Brown in that convenience store theft. But then at the same time said but it's not necessarily tied at all to his shooting and killing. What's your reaction here given what we have heard from the family?

MICHAELA ANGELA DAVIS, CULTURE CRITIC/WRITER: Yes, I mean a week ago almost to this hour we saw a mother in anguish saying that I was planning a graduation party and now I'm planning a funeral. And that's burned in my psyche. And we have to realize that under that body, there's a mother, there's a father, there's friends, there's a future. There's a complete community that's been terrorized.

They saw their neighbor in the street in a pool of blood for hours. So that's trauma, right? And then you have all these other bumbling accounts from the police. And then I think also to find out that they were advised not to show it, I think every time some new information comes out, it's a bigger stab. We don't get any clearer, we get more troubled, I think, by it and the parents are traumatized, I'm sure.

HARLOW: Let's bring Ben Ferguson in. I do want, Ben, your reaction to news that we now know at CNN that the justice department did ask Ferguson police not to release that video. They held on to it for a number of days and then they did ultimately release it yesterday. Obviously they don't have to answer to the justice department and made the decision. They said, look, you, the press, wanted it. What's your reaction to that being released at the same press conference that the name of the officer that killed Michael Brown was released?

FERGUSON: Well, two things. One, they would have been sued and they would have lost because the press has a right, the public has a right to know this information. And so, they would have absolutely been sued and they would have lost and it would have come out a week from now or whenever, two weeks from now, two days from now, so go ahead and put it out there, let's move on past it.

But I also think it is important information to paint the full picture of that day. That police officer did not know that he had just committed that crime that we've seen on camera, but the young man that was stopped had a reason to not want to be dealing with the cops at that moment because he didn't know that police officer didn't know that he had committed a crime.

And so, I think that's part of what paints a broader picture here that people are going to want to know about and ultimately the press wanted to know it. There are laws that make it very clear that we have a right to know that information and a lot of people request it and they put it out there.

HARLOW: Ben, it is something we should discuss because our legal expert, one of our experts here, Paul Callan, yesterday said that on the air. Said look, even if the officer did not know, Michael Brown knew.

KOHN: Allegedly. Allegedly.

HARLOW: But what we do know is that Ben Crump who represents the family said, look, I don't know Michael Brown but it appears to be him in the video. But you are right. No one has said it was definitively him. And some of the community have said look, maybe it was photo shopped, they're not sure. But my question is, is that an important point that Ben is making, not only the state of mind of the officer at the time but also the state of mind of Michael Brown?

KOHN: Well, look, there's two things to be said here. First of all, a lot of what people are upset about is not just that this information came out but that what was not released by police, that they did not release any of the information about the shooting and the scene at that crime. How many shots were fired, whether there was in fact shots fired inside the car. So they have only released one side of the story and it does seem to be an attempt to smear Michael Brown and to try and exonerate this police officer, number one.

Number two, I think people really need to stop and think what could have possibly transpired, worst case scenario, that even the account and we have heard at the police office, this young man was fleeing, was fleeing, even according to the police officer, was unarmed, had his hands up and was shot dead on the street.

So all of this smearing suggests that there's something that this young man could have done, right? Worst case scenario, he stole a box of cigars? That there's something he could have done to justify being shot down in the street in cold blood by a police officer.

HARLOW: Ben, I want to get to you but we have to get to a break. There are two very distinctly different stories here. What we're hearing from the police that there was a wrestle over the gun and then what we're hearing from the eyewitnesses saying that is not the case. We're going to discuss this more after the break. But again, an 18- year-old unarmed teenager dead in all of this and this country wants answers.

We're also going to hear from the governor of Missouri at 4:00 eastern here. We'll carry that live for you on CNN. He is going to be speaking at a local church. We'll bring you those comments live and get back to our commentators after a quick break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HARLOW: Back with us to discuss all that has unfolded in the last week after the deadly shooting of an 18-year-old unarmed teenager Michael Brown, culture critic and writer Michaela Angela Davis and also CNN political commentators Sally Kohn and Ben Ferguson.

Ben, you had something you wanted to say as we were going to break. What is it?

FERGUSON: Yes. I think a lot of people try to make this it in to this cigar he stole, not a big deal. Like it's just cigars, that's pretty normal activity. It's not. Assaulting the person in the store on video strong-arming them and pushing him into the shelves the way he did, that is not something that should be overlooked here.

And there's another issue, if you are willing to assault someone over stealing and robbing a store and the police are going to stop you, in that situation I'm sure he did not want to be stopped by the police. He did not want to deal with them and I think that something that has to be looked at. And the family, if this was not him in the store, in my opinion, the family and the attorneys would have adamantly denied and this is not our son. This is not Michael Brown. This is smear campaign. Not one person said that.

HARLOW: And, Ben, to be very clear to the viewers the police chief of Ferguson said the officer that shot and killed Michael Brown did not know when he stopped him and his friend walking in the middle of the street that he was a suspect at the time in that convenience store robbery which had happened just about ten minutes before.

Sally, to you, what about the issue -- what about the fact in this town that you -- that you do have tensions that didn't just all of a sudden arise.

KOHN: Right.

HARLOW: This is a town where you have a two-thirds African-American majority, you have a 53-member police force with three African- American members. You have, you know, the five of six city council members are white. So, you have people in that town have spoken about reporters there for local journalists have spoken about the fact that they have seen that there has been tension bubbling for a long time.

KOHN: Well, and you're seeing people protesting around the country because this also isn't an isolated incident whether it's Eric Garner in New York who whatever the situation was brought down by cops for doing nothing. At the moment he was doing nothing. He was brought down by cops. He was choked and died on the street. A black man in Ohio who picked up a toy gun at a Walmart and was shot and killed by police. You know, this is a pattern.

And I think what's dangerous when this becomes a conversation of, you know, this guy, this kid and trying to smear him. But also making it about this cop was he a good company cop, bad cop, was he racist, was he not.

Look, we live in a society where we know it is more likely for black and white cops to shoot unarmed black men. We know that. We know that through research. We need to do something about it and not just be always turning the -- there's a pattern. There's a pattern, and we need to fix it as a country.

HARLOW: We have not heard and will not hear from Michael Brown. We have not heard anything from the officer that shot and killed him, Darren Wilson. Are you, Michaela, concerned at all about, you know, jumping to any conclusions before we hear from other people? We have heard from two eyewitnesses.

DAVIS: That's right. And we have heard from friends. We've heard from parents. I'm most concerned with the root causes that Sally was getting to, that this is systemic, that neighborhoods don't just erupt. Things have been going on generationally and we've heard voices. And one of the things that was so powerful about, I was watching Don Lemon yesterday, all these people giving voice to their frustration is part of the solution and part of the healing have been disenfranchise and terrorized.

This is a terrorizing experience for this entire community. And I think it's time for us to also look at the human toll and the human cost and not from chips and not some cigars. This is about young people who are afraid. Young black men who are afraid.

HARLOW: We have heard that from a lot of the parents in that community as well.

Guys, I appreciate it. We have to go. Appreciate it, Michaela, Sally and Ben.

DAVIS: Thank you. KOHN: Thank you.

HARLOW: Thank you for being with us. Stay with us here on CNN. We are going to bring you live comments from Missouri governor Jay Nixon who is expected to speak in a few moments from a local church there in Ferguson. When that happens, we will bring it to you live.

CNN NEWSROOM continues in just a moment.

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