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Ferguson Curfew Begins Tonight; Effects of Social Media on Perception
Aired August 16, 2014 - 19:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: The people of Ferguson, Missouri will have to stay inside tonight. No one allowed outside from midnight until 5:00 a.m.
That is what Missouri's governor and his top law enforcement leaders told a gathering of community members just a short time ago.
This curfew is partly because of this -- overnight looting, vandalism, Molotov cocktails being thrown by some. Some people in Ferguson angry on lashing out after a week to the day after the unarmed teenager, Michael Brown, was shot and killed by a police officer.
Let's go live now to Ferguson, Missouri, our CNN's Jason Carroll who has been on the ground throughout all of this all week.
And we just heard Governor Nixon's news conference. We heard some people yelling out once they announced this curfew demanding action, demanding justice, Jason.
JASON CARROLL, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: You did actually and you also heard the governor and law enforcement pointing out the number of people who came out here, Poppy, as you know last night trying to help, trying to stop some of the people from coming out here and looting.
Today, local police met with a number of community leaders trying to find a better way to deal with the city that will be under curfew tonight.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL (voice-over): The calm in Ferguson broken once again as leaders took to the streets late Friday night, in some cases stealing in plain sight to the police who after being criticized earlier in the week for overreacting to people demonstrations held back. Now, law enforcement being criticized for under-reacting to those who are coming to Ferguson to do more than just protest.
Workers at Sam's meat market said they called police several times last night when looters broke in but no help came.
MIKE JACOUB, MANAGER, SAM'S MEAT MARKET: They got calls from me. They got call from co-workers, they got call from everybody. You know, why they not send one cop? That's my question. Why?
CARROLL: Sam's meat market was looted twice Sunday night and again Friday night. Their patience wearing thin.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The cops lineup down the street and let the people protest peacefully and let them march. They march. Some protect their businesses.
CARROLL: Clearly, there was a break down in security. Captain Ron Johnson with the Missouri Highway Patrol is head of security on the ground.
CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: I have been tasked to provide security for the people of this community. Allow them the right to speak, allow them the right to express their feelings. We will survive this and we will make a change.
CARROLL: This morning, Ferguson Police Chief Tom Jackson met with Cedric Alexander, vice president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives.
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: What we are here to help him and this community begin to build a bridge and provide some support.
CHIEF THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI POLICE DEPT.: Thanks. I appreciate the kinder words. It means an awful lot.
CARROLL: Despite some support, Chief Jackson knows last night is a clear indication law enforcement needs a change in tactics.
(on camera): I know it has been a difficult night based on what happened last night. I know you have been receiving words of encouragement but also criticism, as you told me, from people in the community as well.
This young lady who just came up to you, she was obviously one of those supporting you.
JACKSON: She was. That means an awful lot. She is serving our country and taking time out to say she appreciates that we are doing our job and it means a lot.
CARROLL: Disappointing to see what happened last night.
JACKSON: Heartbreaking.
CARROLL (voice-over): Chief Jackson ended our interview there. Later, he attended a meeting with Alexander and the local community leaders.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have to be mindful of the people that are peaceful there. For example, we can't throw tear gas into the crowd. That is unacceptable.
CARROLL: Back at Sam's Meat Market, they are worried about tonight but haven't lost faith in the community or law enforcement. For now, they are boarding up and hoping for the best.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CARROLL: The governor saying this about the curfew, Poppy. Quote, "If we have justice first, we must have peace. This is a test, the eyes of the world are watching. There were agitators out here last night and the night before that and the night before that, and most likely will be out here again tonight, Poppy.
At this point, it's just a waiting game to see if that curfew will work.
HARLOW: We'll wait and see. But let's hope that there is peace there. That is what we can hope for.
Jason, before you go, I mean, you have been pointing out throughout your reporting as you have been saying you have to put this in the context, right, as you've been saying. You have to put this in the context of the strained race relations in this community for decades.
CARROLL: You're absolutely right, Poppy. I mean, the minute we got here several days ago now, it was one of the first things that was said to me as I came up here. And it was told to me over and over and over again. What you are looking at, what you have been hearing from so much is an anger and frustration that has been building and building and building for years.
And that anger comes from members, primarily the African-American community and this fractured relationship between the police department, between elected officials. They feel as though their voices have been ignored for many, many years.
And so, that's why you see so much anger towards the government, toward law enforcement today, and why you see so much anger out here on the streets tonight. But having said that that does not excuse the people coming out here and trying to take advantage of the situation and do nothing short of stealing. Those people are different from the vast majority of people who are trying to make a political statement.
HARLOW: It's important you say that because those are the images we see again and again but that is not the vast majority of the people. Jason, appreciate the reporting throughout. You guys have been phenomenal on this. I know a lot of sleepless nights. So, thank you in your team on the ground.
Let's bring in now, the attorney, one of the attorneys for Michael Brown's family, Anthony Gray. He's co-counsel for Brown's parents.
Thank you for joining me. We appreciate it.
ANTHONY GRAY, MCHAEL BROWN'S FAMILY CO-COUNSEL: Thank you for having me, Poppy. I appreciate it.
HARLOW: I know that your team on behalf of the Brown family has requested the Department of Justice oversee a second autopsy on Michael Brown's body. I'd like to know from you why that is and also, sir, if you have had response from the Department of Justice on that.
GRAY: Well, we have not had an official and final response from the Department of Justice. But where we are with the autopsy procedures is that we are conducting an independent autopsy, the family is. And so, we want to have those results at our finger tips in order to be able to examine some information that we trust and that we can rely upon.
HARLOW: And what -- tell me specifically what it is you are looking for from the independent autopsy and if you believe that the first one that was done by the coroner's office there in St. Louis is perhaps not complete or not thorough or not accurate. What are you -- what are you looking for?
GRAY: Well, we can't really say whether it is complete or inaccurate because we haven't seen it. So, I don't want to make that comment. I just want to say that the purpose for the autopsy that we called for was so that we can have information that we can rely on and that we trust and that we can put our fingers on once it is done.
HARLOW: And you hired your own forensic pathologist to do that at this point, correct?
GRAY: That is correct.
HARLOW: What can you tell us about who you have hired?
GRAY: Michael Baden, world renowned expert and medical examiner, been in the business for years. He has worked on multitude of high profile cases. We think that there would be no problem with his experience or his statute within the pathologist community.
So, we think we got one of the best in the world that we can have in order to do a thorough autopsy in this particular case.
HARLOW: And, Anthony Gray, I want to ask you about the surveillance video from the convenience store that was released by local police there yesterday afternoon even though the Department of Justice asked that they not release it. Police there say the video shows Michael Brown taking a box of cigars from the convenience store in what is called a strong armed robbery. This was released at the same time the police chief there said that the officer who shot and killed Michael Brown had not viewed and not seen the surveillance tape and did not know that brown was a suspect in the robbery when he shot and killed Michael Brown.
I'm wondering what the reaction has been from Michael Brown's parents to that video being released.
GRAY: They were absolutely distraught by it. Just keep in mind, Poppy, they haven't had a chance to completely wrap their arms and minds around the events that happened on that Saturday afternoon in broad day light. And before they can make funeral plans for their son or before they can bury their child, they have to face yet another attack on his body while they are attempting to have him rest in peace. So, they are very much distraught by this. That has driven the mother
deeper into a state of depression. It has had such a catastrophic effect because they think they are trying to kill her child that is already dead. They think it is completely unfair.
HARLOW: You know, when Benjamin Crump, your colleague, was asked about this, I believe yesterday, it said and he was asked by one of my colleagues here at CNN, do you believe that is Michael Brown in the surveillance video and Benjamin Crump said, you know, I didn't know him but it, you know, appears to be him.
Do you know? Has the family said to you whether they believe that is their son?
GRAY: And that's the interesting thing about the release of the video. You would think that before a video is displayed to the world that someone would have authenticated the identity of the individuals in those videos. That would be the mother, the father, some family member would have viewed that video much like they view a body and say, well, that's my family member, that's my child.
To my knowledge, there has been no effort to authenticate individuals in that video, perhaps the chief or whoever release the video feels they know Mike Brown Jr. enough to identify them themselves. We questioned that.
And so, at this point, I'm not in the position to comment as to whether or not that is Mike Brown Jr. or not. The mother hasn't seen the video but just heard about it and saw a little glimpse of it. So, there has been no authentication of the people in this video by someone in the family.
HARLOW: It's an important thing to point out. I want to talk to you, sir, about the curfew just announced there that is going to take effect tonight at midnight after we saw the looting that happened again last night after those peaceful protests on Thursday night. Do you think that is a good move, a smart move on the part of law enforcement there and on the part of the governor of Missouri to have this curfew in place at least tonight and then take it day by day?
GRAY: You got to take it day by day. I think it was a rational move to come up with some strategy. You know, there is some place in the middle between perhaps no curfew or a midnight curfew, I don't know. I'm going to leave that up to the individuals that are in operational control.
However, I do think it is at least a step that the highway patrol is attempting and hopefully it will work. There is not much pushback or back lash.
But I would wait and see like much of the strategies that have been attempted in the past some work and some don't. So, we'll just see. But right now, the family wants to make sure that I send the message to everyone listening that they want calm and they want peace. They do not want violence. They do not want this situation to divide amongst racial lines,
amongst any kind of ethnic groups. You know, I practice law with Caucasians, some of the best, some of the nice people who are in support of everything that I do. And I don't want this thing to turn into a black and white issue. And the comments I'm receiving on the blog, the threatening voice mails I'm receiving from those coming from different races is just not fair.
I'm urging the world not to take the debate that we all stick together and call for a fair and impartial investigation that's all we call for from day one. We said let the chips fall where they may and let's all unify around that particular call.
This is a color blind curiosity, period. Asians are curious. Mexicans are curious. People in China are curious. People around the globe are just curious.
So, I don't want to get into this big divide and I hope it doesn't come down to that and neither does the family.
HARLOW: Yes, you know, it's an important message to be sending from the family. I know that tomorrow, there is going to be an event, a rally held. What can you tell us about that?
GRAY: Tomorrow at the Greater Grace Church, I understand that Reverend Al Sharpton will be here and he is spearheading an effort to galvanize a group of individuals and the community to just kind of unite around a day of peace and to start a movement towards a peaceful campaign to get to the bottom of this case.
So the purpose of tomorrow's meeting is primarily centered around that, and we hope that he has great success in that. I can tell you that the mother is at least interested in coming. She has expressed a desire to be there. And we are hopeful that she can gain enough strength to appear.
HARLOW: And before I let you go, Mr. Gray, thank you for spending the time with us. Before I let you go, I do want to ask you this. One of the big questions in this has been how many times was Michael Brown shot? What was the trajectory of the bullet, things we would find some answers to from the autopsy, those results of the first autopsy have not been released to you, have not been released to the public.
When are you doing the second autopsy of Michael Brown? And will you plan to release that information that you received to the public? Do you want to share that with the public? Is that something you are going to keep for -- you know, as you guys move forward in this?
Well, I will assure you of this, Poppy, that as we speak efforts are underway to conduct and complete the second autopsy which is really going to be considered somewhat of a second and third autopsy at one time. I am going to sit down with my partners Daryl Crump -- I'm sorry, Ben Crump and Daryl Parks and we are going to discuss what is the pros and cons of disseminating that information.
We will make a decision after we come together, after talking about the results when we get there.
HARLOW: We appreciate you being with us this evening here on CNN. Thank you for taking the time.
GRAY: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you. You guys have a great day.
HARLOW: You as well.
We have a lot more special coverage of the situation in Ferguson, Missouri, as it unfolds. Next here in the NEWSROOM, we're going to have the executive director of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives. He is going to weigh in on this curfew just set and will take place this evening. What is his take? Is that the right move? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Welcome back. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York.
A news conference today with the governor of Missouri became heated after he declared a state of emergency and announced a curfew for the city of Ferguson. Listen to protesters and citizens in that meeting demanding to know if the officer who shot Michael Brown and killed him will be indicted.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why hasn't Darren Wilson been indicted? Answer the question!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why don't you start an investigation?
(CROSSTALK)
GOV. JAY NIXON (D), MISSOURI: If I could please --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop killing our people, police! Stop it now!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Joining me now from Ferguson is Cedric Alexander. He is the executive director of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives.
Thank you for being here, sir. We appreciate it.
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, EXEC. DIR., NATIONAL ORGANIZATION OF BLACK LAW ENFORCEMENT EXECUTIVES: Thank you. Thank you for having me.
HARLOW: That was just a snippet of what was a very tense meeting between officials, the governor there, Ron Johnson who's leading security, Captain Ron Johnson, and a lot of community members of Ferguson demanding justice, they say, wanting to see an arrest made, wanting to see an indictment come down.
What is your response to the curfew that has been put in place starting tonight there in Ferguson?
ALEXANDER: Well, I really don't have an opinion in regards to the curfew. Really that is an operational issue that I'm quite sure is being managed by the highway patrol here. Whatever information or intelligence information they may be working off of they probably can answer that question far more intelligent than I can being to the fact that they -- you just never know what decision and why they made that decision. So, it would be hard for me to really comment on that.
HARLOW: Well, let's talk about what you have been doing on the ground there, because you are there for a specific reason, a purpose, and that is to help this community try to heal and rebuild. You have been meeting with local community leaders across the board, you've met with the Ferguson police chief.
What have you been hearing?
ALEXANDER: Well, one thing I had an opportunity to do today is I had an opportunity to meet the chief. And he and I spent some time together going over a lot of the things that have occurred over the last week. And he's asked for help from NOBLE. We are going to reach out to him, and continue to reach out to him and going forward help provide some training for his department both around culture diversity and community-oriented policing.
It is very evident and clear and I have been saying that over the course of the last week there is certainly a disconnect between this community and the police department.
So, I had the opportunity to meet with him today. In addition he and I also sat down earlier this morning and met with a number of community members particularly from the clergy and we were able to work through some things and come up with a couple of ideas and maybe something that they can implement locally pretty quickly.
HARLOW: Can you share with us some of the ideas, what could be done? Because we've heard from Captain Ron Johnson a number of times, this is about being with the people in the community. We physically saw him walk with them on Thursday night and constantly be with them and say, this is about talking, knowing each other. What are those ideas that you guys have come up with?
ALEXANDER: Well, what the clergy came up with and along with other community members in that room, there is some immediate needs, of course, that need to be addressed. But one thing they committed to do was to make sure that those who are out looting and stealing and creating mayhem at night, their statements were those people need to be arrested. And they committed to support their local law enforcement in terms of doing that because they understand the importance of it. Because they, too, want to see those that are protesting legally have an opportunity to do that.
But they are very committed to law enforcement being able to arrest those and engage those that are doing damage to innocent people and property, as well, too. In addition to that two other things we talked about again, I spoke about just a moment ago and that is training, doing training with the police department, engaging the community and opening up a dialogue and really starting to build a bridge that really has not been working, a bridge of communication not working between the two entities for some time.
HARLOW: Yes. Sir, we appreciate you being with us and frankly having those meetings and helping to try to come up with some solution so that things can move forward in a more productive way for everyone there on the ground in Ferguson. Thank you for being with us and sharing that with us this evening. We appreciate it.
ALEXANDER: All right. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me.
HARLOW: Of course, of course. We are just hours away from that curfew taking effect in Ferguson, Missouri. It is going to happen at midnight there local time. My next guest, though, blames what is happening there in terms of the looting and some of those violent protests on what he calls moral decay. We're going to get his thoughts.
What does he mean? That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: In just a few hours from now, curfew will go into effect in Ferguson, Missouri. The governor made that announcement today after several stores were looted overnight. Windows were smashed and some Molotov cocktails were thrown at businesses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIXON: Last night, where after hours of peaceful protesting, small groups took to the streets with the intent of committing crimes and endangering citizens. That is unacceptable.
So, to protect the people and property of Ferguson today, I signed an order declaring a state of emergency and implementation of a curfew.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Joining me now is Kevin Jackson. He's the executive director of the Black Sphere, a conservative political action group. He's also founder of the Black Conservative Coalition.
Thank you for joining us, sir. We appreciate it.
KEVIN JACKSON, BLACK CONSERVATIVE COALITION: My pleasure.
HARLOW: What's your reaction to the looting that you saw take place overnight?
JACKSON: Well, I think it is pretty sad that we have come to this point in America where something like that happens over a tragedy. I think that Jay Nixon who felt like -- essentially put a band aid on a bullet hole by saying we are going to appoint a black man in charge and that was going to quell all of this bad behavior by people is ridiculous.
And I think that it showed -- it proved itself out.
HARLOW: The governor did not say that he was putting a black man in charge, that that would be -- that that is why. He put Captain Ron Johnson, the head of the Missouri State Highway Patrol there.
JACKSON: He is the head of the Missouri Highway Patrol, but the two people that only have authority in this are the attorney general and governor of Missouri. So, Ron Johnson is a figure head that was put in place because the cries of diversity and the idea that a black man on the street or somebody, seeing a black face was going to make things better and it didn't.
HARLOW: You know, we have just had a guest on. I don't know if you heard him. His named is Cedric Alexander. He was just on with us. He's been meeting today even with the Ferguson police chief. He also met with a lot of local officials.
And one of the things he told us that he thinks could be effective moving forward is increased training for the police force, increased diversity training. He said, look, there is clearly a big divide here between the people of this community and their police force.
I hear you laughing. I mean, I take it you do not agree with him?
JACKSON: We're -- the fallback position for everything for liberals is, let's do more diversity training. The cops -- look, prior to this incident, there was nothing going on in Ferguson. You probably didn't know what it was. Most of the people watching this show didn't know where Ferguson, Missouri, was.
One incident occurs and suddenly the 53 police officers in Ferguson are supposed to go through diversity training. Your previous guest also mentioned reaching out to the black clergy in that area. Black clergy have been in that area for decades. The person who's responsible for that area, the representative, the lady that -- the state rep, she was on another program and I heard her talk about diversity. She's been in charge of this area for decades.
The Congressional Black Caucus member, Lacy Clay, he's been in charge, he's done nothing.
KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BLACK SPHERE, LLC: ... he was on another program and I heard her talk about diversity. She has been in charge of this area for decades. The Congressional Black Caucus member Lacy Clay has been in charge. He has done nothing. So suddenly now we need all this diversity training. It's ridiculous. There is a fundamental problem here.
POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Let me ask you this. We just heard our Jason Carroll at the top of the show who has been on the ground throughout this week reporting saying even in the first moments that he got there on the ground on Monday morning that he was told by community member after community member this has been a long time coming, this boiling over is because of the strained race relations in this community and they are the people that live there saying that to him. Can you understand the outcry?
JACKSON: I live in a racially charged area and so on and so forth. If you live in an urban indoctrination center known as a city it is all at a boiling point. It has nothing to do with the white police officers or the black police officers or anybody else that are trying to do their jobs. It has to do with the fact that there is hopelessness in those communities where hope has been promised. And the people promising hope in these black communities are the black folks that are over them like the Congressional Black Caucus, the state reps and everything else. That is not the problem. The problem is these kids don't have jobs. Their parents don't have jobs and they are struggling to just get the basic stuff out of life.
HARLOW: What do you mean these kids? We are talking about Ferguson. We are talking about Michael Brown who just graduated from high school and was going on to college, did not have a criminal record? Talking specifically about this, sir.
JACKSON: Poppy, every time you talk about Michael Brown you want to make him a choir boy. There are no choir boy.
HARLOW: I never said that. To be fair I never said that.
JACKSON: OK. Well, then, let's not just talk about him as being a kid who is going to college and had no criminal record. You saw the video of what Michael Brown did. That doesn't condemn him to death but doesn't make him a choir boy. So let's just face it for what it is and let's talk about why Michael Brown went in, grabbed some cigars that were not his, strong armed the person who owned the store because there is a victim. That is an absolute victim. And stop glossing over this issue as if Michael Brown was the best thing since sliced bread.
I have - look, I get it. I have four sons. I feel sorry for his parents and I feel sorry that this young man was killed and I think the investigation needs to vet that out. But every time you are mentioning as if he is a choir boy it upsets me.
HARLOW: OK. Understood. I did not call him a choir boy. I do want to end on this moving forward with you though, sir and I appreciate your time coming on. Let's talk about solutions. OK. If you think that diversity training isn't the right solution, understood, what is the solution? How does this community begin to heal and move forward? Obviously they need a thorough accurate investigation. But for the broader community now what do they do?
JACKSON: For the broader community people need to understand that we are not - America is not the racist enclave that everybody says that it is. The cops are not targeting black people, neither are white folks. Why don't you give diversity training to people going to the football game. We meld every single day. We meld at restaurants, we meld at schools. We meld as a nation as part of the mosaic every day in multiple ways.
Just as the police help people every single day. But we take a situation like this, we blow it out of proportion because that's what happened. We want to set the narrative that one side is good and the other side is bad. That is what is bad. I don't know how this is going to shake out but I will tell you this, if that cop did the wrong thing he should be prosecuted and that family should be taken care of. But let's figure it out first and stop jumping to conclusions.
HARLOW: I think everyone wants the truth and wants answers. Kevin Jackson, I appreciate your time coming on to talk to us this evening. Thank you, sir.
JACKSON: My pleasure.
HARLOW: Well, the web of legal issues surrounding the investigation into the death of Michael Brown there are a lot of questions as this community vents anger at police. We are going to explain the investigation, the process, what lies ahead. That's next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HARLOW: Just a few hours ago the Missouri governor and top officials at the highway patrol held a news conference, really it was a gathering of community members with a whole lot of media there as well. The man now in charge of security in Ferguson is highway patrol Captain Ron Johnson. He said the curfew that takes effect tonight at midnight will hopefully improve safety in the area.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAPT. RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: We will enforce the curfew in an effort to provide safety and security in the area. The past few days, I have seen a great people standing out with a lot of pride. Great people stand out and speak their voice. I have seen people show compassion towards each other, strengthen each other and that is what we are going to talk about today is a positive impact that our community is showing on this nation and we will survive this and we will make a change.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HARLOW: Well, our Polo Sandoval was there for that news conference throughout. It was very tense. And after this curfew was announced you heard a number of community members yelling out at points interrupting the officials saying we want justice, when is an arrest going to happen. What else did you hear from the people you spoke with there?
POLO SANDOVAL, CNN NEWSOURCE NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Poppy. Much of the passion from protesters that you see everywhere, you hear with every car that passes by that made its way into the press conference and the concerns there from some of these members of the public really interrupting Governor Jay Nixon whose sole purpose of this press conference was really to bring everybody up to speed on what is the security concerns here on the streets of Ferguson.
His main goal was to announce obviously this executive order which would create that midnight to 5:00 a.m. curfew and also that state of emergency. A lot of people there not wanting to hear that. A lot of them really calling for the arrest of officer Darren Wilson, the officer, local officer here, who pulled the trigger Saturday killing Michael Brown. Every time that many of these officials whether it be the head of the Missouri State police or Governor Nixon would try to focus on security, many of these members of the community really angry and continue to shift the focus on their ongoing search for justice.
We did get to hear from some of the members of the public just moments after the announcement. Poppy, I do want you to hear a portion of the interviews.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I am worried because we have shown we have the capacity and the respect from the demonstrators to get them to end at a certain time. And the new state of emergency deadline is worrying me because 12:00 midnight is too soon.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think the people have a right to rebel. And by rebel we don't mean breaking windows and stealing things. But I'm not going to judge those people. I think people are up to here. A young man was about to go to college on Monday. He had a future before him and now his mother will live the rest of her life suffering his death.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SANDOVAL: Just a sample of the mixed reaction after these announcements were made by Missouri Governor Jay Nixon. We are really getting quite a mixed reaction. Some people feel this could be the right way to go as you hear out and about after 3:00 that clearly that might be a concern and might lead to some potential law breaking. However, there are some individuals who actually feel that might lead to more confrontation between police and demonstrators.
The one question that was very difficult to answer there because of the drama that unfolded was exactly how Missouri state police plan to actually enforce this curfew. We do know that Captain Ron Johnson who is the man in charge here said they will steer away from the armored trucks and tear gas and focus on that one-on-one interactions and any potential violators of that curfew will be approached by some of these officers and asked to go home. But really, tonight will be a major game changer. We will be closely watching the streets of Ferguson. Authorities do want to make sure that these demonstrations and these protests remain as peaceful as the ones you see behind me. Poppy.
HARLOW: I think everyone wants that. Appreciate the reporting for us this evening. Thank you.
Well, the shooting death of Michael Brown has raised also a lot of legal questions, all made more complicated by the frayed emotions in the Ferguson community. Brian Claypool joins me now. He is a criminal defense attorney. Thank you for being with us, sir. We appreciate it.
BRIAN CLAYPOOL, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Sure. Thanks for having me, Poppy.
HARLOW: Of course, you know, we had a trial lawyer on earlier today who told me that she thinks it is taking a really long time to see if any charges are going to be filed or aren't going to be filed. Is this taking a long time? You disagree?
CLAYPOOL: Not at all, Poppy. Over the past 10 years I have been a civil rights attorney in Los Angeles. I represented at least 10 families of young men shot and killed by police officers. Four of those young men were shot unarmed. Two were white. One was Hispanic and one was black. Poppy, I have hugged mothers of all four and I cried with them. I have consoled them. And all four of those mothers said the following sentence, all four of them. "I want justice now."
There are two problems with that term. That is what everybody in Ferguson wants. They want justice now. There are two problems, though. The word now, it will not happen now. There has to be a very, very extensive criminal investigation that involves processing of physical evidence, forensic evidence, medical evidence and eyewitness testimony.
You have to have to reenact two shootings here. You have the shooting that allegedly occurred outside the car of the officer and then the shooting in the street. That is going to take a lot of time, Poppy. And then the other comment that these families said they want justice. The form of justice that a lot of families of those have been killed by officers might take a different form and a different shape than what they expect. And that is really, really difficult for them to process.
HARLOW: I also want to talk about the video, the convenience store video that purportedly allegedly shows Michael Brown, his attorneys are not confirming nor his family that was indeed him but let's show it to you there. This convenience store video taken 10 minutes before Michael Brown was shot and killed. The strong armed robbery leaving with cigars that police say it is Michael Brown. Talk to me about admissibility of that in court and the potential importance or none, or is it not important that video because we know that Officer Darren Wilson who shot and killed Michael Brown had not seen that video before he approached him on the street.
CLAYPOOL: That's a great question. Here is how you break it down. The measure of whether a police officer can be charged with homicide or held culpable in a civil court is what was in their mind at the time they shot. It is an objective standard. But you have to look at information that they had in front of them or gained from audio dispatch tapes.
And by the way, audio dispatch tapes will be crucial in this investigation. It's going to tell us about the dialogue that was taking place leading up to the shooting. So getting back to your question. If this shooting officer is not aware of the prior robbery then it may not be admissible.
Here is another problem, though. It may come in another way which is it could possibly explain why Michael Brown reacted the way he did because a question that everybody wants to have answered is why did the person flee? I have had cases like that. Why are you fleeing from the police officers? It could be argued if Michael Brown did in fact do this robbery that that explains why he was fleeing the scene. So that's going to be a real difficult call for the judge.
HARLOW: Yes, there are still a lot of questions. As we know, the police chief later clarifying his remarks in an interview yesterday, later yesterday with our Don Lemon saying that - well, you know, the officer did know about the robbery and may not have known that Michael Brown was the suspect but did know that cigars were taken and may have seen Michael Brown with cigars. There are still so many questions about that. There certainly are and is.
I wish I could keep talking to you for a lot longer and get more some of your thoughts. We will have you on again soon. Thank you for joining us.
CLAYPOOL: Sure. Thanks for having me, Poppy.
HARLOW: Well, you know, the response is almost immediate. Something happens and social media reacts. You know that. How has social media played a role in what has unfolded over the last week in Ferguson, Missouri? We're going to talk about that with our Brian Stelter, next.
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HARLOW: Just as social media has brought attention to what has happened in Ferguson it's been the lead all over cable news for the past week as well. Let's bring in Brian Stelter. He's our senior media correspondent, the host of "Reliable Sources." You think htat social media has really helped in terms of getting reporters to cover the story in the beginning.
BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes, to get the spotlight on the story. I know first hand, the first time I heard about it, since it was seven days ago, it was on Saturday evening on Twitter and then on Facebook as well. There's this concept called black twitter. The African-American community is especially prominent on Twitter, a disproportionate number of users who are African- American. It's a very active community there. And this became a big story there. And on Twitter more generally before it did on cable news.
HARLOW: This hash tag that became broadly known, if they gunned me down. The impact you think that had on this story resonating in all of the major networks having people there by Monday morning, if not Sunday night?
STELTER: I think the hash tag if they gun me down was an example of accountability, holding the press accountable, holding the reporters accountable very early on in the story. Because almost any time there's a controversial story like this, we see a variety of photos of the victim.
We saw this during the Trayvon Martin coverage as well. Different photos of him depicted in different ways. Similarly with Michael Brown. There were photos being used that some people, especially again in that area, idea of black twitter, thought were inappropriate, thought were portraying him in a foul and unfair way. As opposed to, say, a photo like from graduation that we're showing right now.
HARLOW: Right
STELTER: And so the concept of if they gunned me down, how I would be portrayed was a very provocative concept.
HARLOW: What about the risks though? Because there was a group, a group that is very anonymous on social media putting out the name of the police officer they said was responsible for this.
STELTER: Right.
HARLOW: Before the police did.
STELTER: Wrongly, twice.
HARLOW: Wrong name.
STELTER: That's not the only example of false information spreading online. There was a particularly heinous example later in the week where the Ferguson police chief's wife was claimed to have posted this nasty Facebook message calling the protesters feral, and all these bad names. It was a hoax, it was fake.
Thankfully it was not picked up on by traditional media. But it spread online to the point where some people still believe it's true. That's a great and very ugly example of how information can spread online and why we need both traditional media as well as social media.
HARLOW: You also think it helps with putting the positives out there.
STELTER: It does.
HARLOW: Isn't always seen on cable news.
STELTER: You're going to see people looting on television, we have thankfully also been showing the cleanup this morning. But you see a lot of pictures online of the cleanup. So social media can accentuate the positives and it can be viral in that way.
HARLOW: Appreciate you coming in especially on a Saturday night. Brian, thank you, more from Brian, 11:00 a.m. tomorrow morning right here on CNN, "Reliable Sources." Don't miss that. We'll be back after a quick break.
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HARLOW: Welcome back. I'm Poppy Harlow in New York. We were just speaking with our Brian Stelter about social media and the impact in Ferguson, Missouri, over the last week. Let's now get more on that from our Jean Casarez.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Always on, unfiltered. A technological eyewitness to history. The smartphones, text messages, and social media of Ferguson, Missouri. Front and center in this crisis.
ROBERT MCCULLOCH, ST LOUIS COUNTY PROSECUTOR: As you know, particularly with social media, there is so much information out there and we're urging anyone and everyone with any information at all that pertains to this, by all means contact us.
CASAREZ: All of that information can be tough to wade through. Some of it dramatic, like this video taken moments after the shooting. Then there's this. The group anonymous tweeted out what they say is the name of the officer who shot 18-year-old Michael Brown. The problem? They didn't get it right. The St. Louis County Police Department responds. Twitter suspends the account.
STELTER: As with any new technology there's the threat of misinformation, of wrong facts and data being spread.
CASAREZ: But with no filter, information can go worldwide with the touch of a finger. Making investigations more challenging.
ROGER CANAFF, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Unfortunately, I think it's a double- edged sword. On one hand I think evidence that is recorded, created by individuals who were there, I think it can be tremendously powerful and very helpful, but it can also be misleading and that it can be very (INAUDIBLE).
STELTER: On social media you can sense so much anger, so much outrage, and a little bit of fear as well. These websites amplify people's emotions.
CASAREZ: It is one reason why police in Washington state are asking citizens to think twice before tweeting when they see officers at work for fear of disrupting investigations. Attorney C.J. Lawrence couldn't believe it when it he saw one social media response to this picture of Michael Brown, which some interpreted as him holding up a gang sign.
C.J. LAWRENCE, ATTORNEY: Look at him, hanging the streets with his pants sagging, I don't feel sorry for him at all." And I was shocked by that.
CASAREZ: Lawrence tweeted out a picture of himself with President Clinton and separately with a bottle of booze. Asking which picture would get more attention. #iftheygunnedmedown has gone viral, showing perceptions can cloud reality.
Police vow to use every source of information at their disposal to get to the truth.
MCCULLOCH: One thing that I have pledged is that we will do a full, fair, complete, and impartial investigation into this. Nothing will be left untouched.
CASAREZ: Or in this case unsaid, or unread.
Jean Casarez, CNN, New York.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
HARLOW: As we have seen, tonight a state of emergency has been declared in Ferguson, Missouri, coming down from the governor of Missouri.
The town's fragile peace has crumbled in the days after the killing of 18-year-old Michael Brown by a police officer. We have just learned that Brown's family has hired famed pathologist Michael Baden to perform a second autopsy on Brown's body. Baden testified in the trials of O.J. Simpson and Phil Specter and Drew Petersen.
In just five hours, a curfew goes into effect on the streets of Ferguson. A short time ago, Missouri State Patrol Captain Ron Johnson spoke at what became a very contentious community member meeting. Really talking about why they're putting this curfew into place. At the same time, what you heard from member of the community speaking out after that announcement, saying we want justice. We want justice now. Saying when is an arrest going to be made? A lot - it went on for a very, very long time. A contentious meeting there between some of the leaders of that community and the police officers and some of the community members demanding answers.
