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Don Lemon Tonight

New Protests in Ferguson; Source Confirms Darren Wilson's Account; Who is Officer Darren Wilson?

Aired August 18, 2014 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

DON LEMON, CNN ANCHOR: Good evening, everyone. This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon live in Ferguson, Missouri.

We are going to begin with breaking news, protesters back out on the streets of Ferguson tonight, demanding their voices be heard more than a week after 18-year-old Michael Brown was shot and killed by police officer Darren Wilson. And a friend of the officer is telling a radio station that Wilson opened fire after Brown rushed him at full speed.

And a source with detailed knowledge of this investigation is telling CNN -- quote -- "This account is accurate." An independent autopsy requested by Michael Brown's family reveals that he was shot at least six times. We will look at what the results might tell us about what happened.

President Barack Obama says a federal investigation has been launched and Attorney General Eric Holder will visit Ferguson on Wednesday. He also called for everyone to take a deep breath.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call once again for us to seek some understanding, rather than simply holler at each other.

Let's seek to heal, rather than to wound each other. As Americans, we have got to use this moment to seek out our shared humanity that has been laid bare by this moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON: It's very important to point out the Missouri National Guard now here to try to keep a lid on the violence.

And another journalist, we should tell you, was handcuffed and arrested late this afternoon. We witnessed it all. And there were some very tense moments with police out here on the streets today. My CNN crew and I got caught up in some of it. Take a look at it. We were out here doing a live shot for "THE SITUATION ROOM" when police came around the corner and told us we had to move even though this was the place they told us this was where the media should be stationed. They started moving us and protesters back. It seems that the rules change and no one knows at times exactly what

they are. We will talk about that throughout the next two hours here on CNN.

We have a lot to report over these next two hours, and my CNN colleague Jake Tapper is also here in Ferguson tonight.

A much different atmosphere than just 24 hours ago, Jake. I want to you compare what's going on there where you are to the kinds of scenes that we saw last night, Jake.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, it's a peaceful demonstration. It's a peaceful march. We're walking in the march right here. We're passing the mark that was burned to the ground two Saturday nights ago.

We just tripped over -- our cameraman John (ph) just tripped over this shotgun shell, a remnant of protests past. But so far this evening, the police have been very clear, and they have gotten and they have recruited members of the community...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: ... to make the message very clear it is OK for everyone -- it's OK for everyone to march and to walk. But they can't stop. And it has already been conveyed, as long as you keep walking, it's OK. But if you stop you get one warning and then you get arrested. So far tonight it's been very peaceful.

We know that the National Guard are here as well as Saint Louis County police, Ferguson police, the Highway Patrol, but so far so good. Everyone seems to be keeping the peace -- Don.

LEMON: Jake, when you compare it to the violence we saw last night, it is quite a difference. I was out on the streets last night and there was a lot of violence going on. We saw police out in tactical gear and when the city was basically shut down, Molotov cocktails being thrown and also tear gas as well to try to get some of those protesters back. Compare it to last night, if you will, Jake. .

TAPPER: Well, it's day and night. Quite frankly, I was here Thursday night when it was a peaceful night. That was the first night that Captain Ron Johnson of the Missouri State Highway Patrol was in charge. And that was a night that was also free of violence, but it was still rather chaotic.

Tonight, very organized. People marching in one long line, so long that they're chanting different things in different sections of the line, of the march. People on the side waving signs, everybody following the instructions set forward very clearly, very deliberately by the state Highway Patrol, by the National Guard, which is, as you know, as of tonight, overseeing operations by the command and control center down the way a little bit at the target.

So you can't really even compare the two when you think about the tear gas and especially in previous nights, when there was that -- what was widely perceived to be militaristic overreaction by the police initially in the first few days with rubber bullets and tear gas. This is day and night.

I have to say, it is -- honestly, it's a two-way street. It is not just the police holding back. It is a very organized protest right now, which is different from days past when it has been more people not necessarily knowing, people having a lot of energy, anger, passion, and not having one way to channel it. This is very organized with everybody joining in this one very long line of protests, Don.

LEMON: All right. Jake Tapper out with the protesters and keeping an eye on them as well. Jake, we will get back to you throughout the next two hours.

I'm joined here by attorney Malik Shabazz, the national president and founder of the Black Lawyers for Justice, and also, Daryl Parks, who is the attorney for Michael Brown's family.

Thank you guys so much for joining us.

Malik, let's start with you first. Earlier you promised, I can quell 90 percent of it when we were here on CNN of the violence, you wanted people to get off the streets after dark. Do you feel you were successful?

MALIK SHABAZZ, BLACK LAWYERS FOR JUSTICE: Well, I don't think there is a need for a curfew right now. I think the president -- I mean, the state has lifted the curfew and I think that we can maintain order here with the forces that we have.

It is an important night. I am still nervous at this hour because I don't want to see our women and our children out tear gassed out here, as I'm out here to provide crowd control and legal aid.

LEMON: There were some arrests today, Daryl Parks, even though they were trying to stop the violence. The National Guard is coming in. What does the family think about that?

DARYL PARKS, ATTORNEY FOR FAMILY OF MICHAEL BROWN: The family again continues to call for very calm in this situation. We believe that we're making progress to achieve justice in the situation that we're facing, Don.

So, again, we have always asked everyone to remain calm and to let's be law-abiding and let the justice system do what it's done. We now know the attorney general is coming. We're very encouraged by that. And we have always been encouraged by the job the Department of Justice was doing.

As you know, they did their autopsy today. So things are moving along. The agents are on the ground and they're working on investigating this case. We think we're going to finally get to justice at some point soon.

LEMON: Yes. I want to tell you what the president, Barack Obama, he spoke earlier today and he talked about what -- he understands the anger of Michael Brown's death. But a small minority of people he says out there are bad actors and they're undermining the cause here. What do you make of his response, the president?

SHABAZZ: I think, in this instance, it was a fair response. He stood up for the constitutional rights of the demonstrators. He stood up for the First Amendment and the right for to us get our message out.

Of course, no one wants the demonstrators, the legitimate ones to have the message drowned out by outside provocateurs and those who are misguided. So in this instance I think he was fair. I think we're trying get to our message out and make sure the night doesn't end in tear gas and negativity.

LEMON: Bringing in the National Guard, was that a good idea, you think?

SHABAZZ: I really don't think so, because hearing that the National Guard and the tanks and the troops are coming in creates more tension and anxiety amongst those who are here to fight for justice for Mike Brown. But I'm glad that they're not here and we're working to make sure we don't get into a situation where they have to appear.

LEMON: Same question for you. What do you think?

PARKS: I think it's OK. I think them bringing greater security to the situation, they are here, not present though down here to provide at least security to the command center area. Makes it OK.

I think what we saw yesterday, the authorities that were here are overwhelmed. So you have to have some calm in some way to bring some normalcy to the situation.

LEMON: The family, you know, there was today the release of a radio interview from someone who said that they were friends with the officer, and that the officer gave her an account of exactly what went on. What did the family make of that interview?

PARKS: Well, at best, it's third-hand. I think you have to judge as to what it is.

I also think that the witnesses we have heard from thus far are eyewitnesses and that they have come forward and put their names there. Whatever reason he wants to tell the truth, he should step forward. Right? However, I think the great number of eyewitnesses who have that that he was surrendering, that he was raising his hands, and that the guy stood there and shot him in the manner that he did, and adding to that the evidence that we put forth through our forensic pathology of the gunshot wound at this part of his head, in the crown of his head forward speaks for itself.

LEMON: The mom wanted to know three things. She wanted to know how many shots were fired, if her son suffered, and you guys said if there is enough evidence to have this officer arrested. Do you feel there is a rush, there may be a rush too quickly to have the officer arrested before the all the facts and details are in?

PARKS: Don, let me be clear. In America, we know that African-Americans are risked every day on a scintilla of evidence, right? That's a B.S. argument, right, when the reality in our country is we see people go to jail for little to nothing every day, booked into jail. You sit there until you're bonded out. That's the reality in America.

SHABAZZ: It's the tip of the iceberg of a national problem. You have Eric Garner in New York. You have abuse police killings and abuse across the country and this now has exploded.

So I think that the quicker and faster investigation and arrest of Darren Wilson will bring some justice here and bring some peace here and at least some resolution until there is a trial. I definitely think that the arrest should be expedited.

LEMON: All right, you said you don't want to get ahead of yourself. You're still waiting to see how the night goes on, correct?

SHABAZZ: Yes. As soon as I leave here, I'm getting back with those demonstrators to make sure that the provocateurs don't take over those that have legitimate aspirations.

LEMON: Stay in close contact with us because we will be here throughout the evening. Thank you very much, Malik Shabazz. Thank you. We appreciate it.

Daryl Parks, make sure you stick around. We will talk to you just a little bit later on here on CNN.

Up next, Michael Brown's family requested an independent autopsy. We will see what it revealed. And also ahead, we're learning about Darren Wilson, the police officer who shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back now live in Ferguson, Missouri, 9:14 Central time. And you see the presence out on the street, the police officers, but also protesters are out and they are marching. So far, as far as we know, it has been very peaceful.

There is no curfew tonight. The governor of Missouri, Jay Nixon, saying there will be no curfew tonight. But National Guard members are on the scene.

I want to go back to my colleague Jake Tapper, who is standing by with a protester here in Ferguson tonight.

Jake, what do you have?

TAPPER: I'm not standing by. We're marching here down West Florissant. I'm here with Adrian Anderson (ph). He is a protester. He's a former police officer from Saint Louis, the city, and also lives in Saint Louis.

Adrian, first of all, why is tonight so thankfully quiet and peaceful? What is different about tonight than previous nights?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I think what's different about tonight is after meeting with the community leaders and organizers, and talking with police officers, we have tried to set up a strategic peace plan so that the people could freely march and their voices be heard.

TAPPER: And I expressed surprise earlier today, earlier this evening when you told me you were a former police officer because you are wearing a shirt that says, police murdering our youth. Do you think police regularly murder African-American men and boys?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think police officers overstep their boundaries of law. I think when you raise your hand and say that you're to protect, uphold the Constitution, which is the right of the people, I think your first job should be to become that community police officer that protects the rights of the people.

TAPPER: And you don't like the way that they do policing in Ferguson and in other parts of the area. You think it should be more community-based.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it should be. I am a former county resident. This form of policing that we're doing out here is nothing new. This has been going on since the '80s, when I began driving, so this is nothing new. My 10 years as a police officer in South Saint Louis with five gangs in my neighborhood, I have never pulled my gun on a man and I have never shot a man.

And I approached guys who were armed. But the difference is, if you get out of your car and you talk to these people and you build relationship with people, then who they are is possibly likely to change. I know in my area, I had criminals that are now great fathers.

TAPPER: Well, that's the kind of conversation going on, on the streets right now. There's no tear gas, there are no rubber bullets, there are no shotgun shells. Just a lot of conversation and chanting -- Don, back to you.

MYERS: All right. Jake Tapper, we will get back to you throughout the evening. Thank you very much.

Today, Michael Brown's family released the results of an independent forensic examination of his body.

Here's CNN's Susan Candiotti with more on what they found.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SUSAN CANDIOTTI, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This much we know from an expert hired by Michael Brown's family. Their autopsy shows the unarmed teenager shot at least six times, four wounds on the right side of his body, two wounds in his head. Dr. Michael Baden says it proves one thing about what happened in the police officer's car.

DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: There weren't signs of a struggle.

CANDIOTTI: The fatal shot came later, what examiners call a kill shot to the top of Brown's head and a second critical wound that exited his right eye.

DARYL PARKS: That's very important, because it shows a back to front for both of those. And it supports what the witnesses said by him trying to surrender to the officer.

CANDIOTTI: That matches accounts from Brown's friend Dorian Johnson and witness Tiffany Mitchell, who both said they saw the teen raise his arms. I asked forensic expert Lawrence Kobilinsky to weigh in.

(on camera): Could these be defensive wounds?

DR. LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, PROFESSOR OF FORENSIC SCIENCE, JOHN JAY COLLEGE OF CRIMINAL JUSTICE: The wound on the palm of the hand could very well be a defense wound, in which case his hands would be up. But, on the other hand, because the arms are flexible and the hands can't turn, it is quite possible that he did not have his hands up.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): There's no mention of that from a woman speaking in defense of officer Darren Wilson. Identifying herself as Josie, she calls the radio station and a source tells CNN her account matches Wilson's.

She says the teenager shoves Wilson into his car, punches him in the face. Both men grab for the officer's gun. It goes off and Brown and his friend start running. Josie says Brown ignores an order to freeze.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he said, all of a sudden, he just started to bum-rush him. He just started coming at him full speed, and so he just started shooting, and he just kept coming.

CANDIOTTI: The family's experts say physical evidence from the preliminary autopsy only shows the teenager was shot in a front direction.

SHAWN PARCELLS, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: Does that mean that he was simply standing there and giving up? We can't conclusively prove that off of what we saw. That's where it is very important for the attorneys in this case to really filter out the credible witnesses and for us to examine those witnesses' statements, along with the officers' statements, and then really be able to peace back together what happened.

CANDIOTTI: The Justice Department is conducting its own autopsy and Saint Louis County will only confirm the teenager was shot in the head and chest.

(on camera): What if these three autopsies differ?

KOBILINSKY: If there turns out to be a difference in the three autopsy reports, it will boil down to credibility. The jury is going to have to attach some significance to each of the reports and listen to the pathologists and draw their own conclusions.

CANDIOTTI (voice-over): That's if a grand jury recommends charges.

Susan Candiotti, CNN, New York.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LEMON: All right, Susan, thank you very much. Susan, we appreciate that.

We have some breaking news we want to get to here. You see there is a commotion now on the streets here on West Florissant. And again, hang on. Let me move out of the way. Police are arresting people. It's a man who appears to be taken away by police. You hear the protesters out screaming, hands up, don't shoot.

We saw officers and protesters rushing across the street. Not exactly sure what happened. They are passing our location now. And he is with police officers and also with protesters trailing behind. And as we have been saying, anything, any small thing can set the community off here.

It is a tinderbox. As soon as one thing happens, it can lead to another. But, again, you see and hear the commotion going on. Someone in the crowd, it appears at least one man has been arrested and we will keep an eye on all of this for you here on CNN as the night progresses here.

Let's talk a little bit more about the autopsy though as this continues. We will keep an eye on it. Let's talk a little more about the autopsy now that Susan Candiotti reported on.

I am joined now by Dr. Cyril Wecht. He's a forensic pathologist and back with us as well is Daryl Parks, the attorney for Michael Brown's family.

Dr. Wecht, we have many different eyewitness accounts telling very different stories. What exactly -- what story does this autopsy tell you?

DR. CYRIL WECHT, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The shots on the right arm do not tell me that he was shot from the front or from the rear. The arms can be held in any variety of positions.

If you just think about it, supination, palms up, pronation, palms down, extension, flexion, put down, take your arm down to tie your shoelace, take your arm behind to you reach for your wallet. You cannot say that the shots were fired from the front based upon the wounds in the arm. The two wounds in the head are very significant.

Michael Brown was 6'3''. The shots were not fired from a sniper's lair high in a tree or from an adjacent building on the third floor. So this boy, this young man was bent over. He was stooped. Either he was charging like officer Wilson says, we're told, through his surrogate, his woman friend, like a bull charging at an officer with a loaded gun shooting at him, just rushing right on, the head down, or he was already toppling over, having been wounded and he was falling to the ground.

That's the only thing to explain that downward trajectory of the bullets in the head and the face. Very, very significant to work this out. They also should do some examination carefully. That should have been done of the automobile. If a shot was fired, obviously, it was at close range. It may not have hit anybody, but gunpowder residue has to have been found on somebody's clothing, either Brown's or Wilson's or on the fabric of the car.

Also to determine where all of the cartridges, the shells from officer Wilson's firing, where were they located?

LEMON: I want to get Daryl Parks in here, because, Daryl, you believe that the shots to the top of the head, you think that is very telling. You said those were the kill shots and they were not necessary in this situation. What does that tell you?

PARKS: Certainly, it tells you that the position of his head when it happened.

For example, you know that one of the shots was at the crown, at the apex of his head. Right? The head had to be down in order for that bullet to come in, especially for it to come from a back-to-forward position after it hit. The same thing with the second one that is close to his hairline, the one that exits near his eye. That one also came from a back-to-front position.

LEMON: Could that have been because, as Dr. Wecht has pointed out, there could have been a number of different scenarios, that he could have been rushing the officer? You heard one of the alleged friends said, that he bum-rushed someone, according to that friend in an interview.

PARKS: That friend is a third person giving it.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: But is that a possible scenario, as Dr. Wecht says?

PARKS: Well, it is a possible one, but he would have had his head all the way down for to it happen. It would indicate that he had been hit by several of the other bullets already. So he was a wounded person already. Thus, there was no need to kill him.

LEMON: Does this autopsy, Dr. Wecht, tell us whether or not this shooting was justified?

WECHT: No.

The autopsy alone does not. There have to be many other things correlated with the autopsy, all of the statements from the different witnesses, the reenactment of this, the shooting of the gun. All of that will have to be taken into account before a determination can be made as to whether it was justified

I think in the final analysis, it's not going to be the autopsy that determines that, but a lot of other things are taken into consideration, including the fact that this young man was unarmed and that he posed no threat. He was not a fleeing felony, imminent danger to the police officer and to innocent bystanders. A 6'3'' African- American young man in that neighborhood, it isn't as if they would never be able to identify and locate him.

All of those things have to be taken into consideration. These are the things that count in police shootings, I can tell you from experience and all the years when I was coroner when we investigated all police shootings.

LEMON: All right, first to you for a quick response, Dr. Wecht, and then we will to go Daryl. The presence of marijuana in his system if toxicology reports do come back and indeed show that, is that significant?

WECHT: No. Marijuana is a mild hallucinogen. It is not a stimulant. No, it is of no significance, in my opinion, in terms of what happened here, the behavior of Michael Brown, and obviously nothing to do with the behavior of officer Wilson.

So if that comes back, I do not believe it is of any significance.

LEMON: Dr. Wecht says he doesn't think it is of much significance there. What do you make of that?

PARKS: I don't think it is significant as well in this case. I think what is significant is the officer's level of drugs or his mental state is probably far more important than Michael's at the time.

LEMON: It has been a very long day for you.

PARKS: Thank you very much.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: From sun-up to sundown. Thank you very much, Daryl Parks.

Thank you, Dr. Cyril Wecht. We appreciate you.

WECHT: Thank you.

LEMON: Up next here on CNN, we're learning about officer Darren Wilson. We will be right back. And we're also checking on the news that happened here that you saw moments ago on the streets.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back here live in Ferguson, Missouri, we have been watching the protesters, watching the streets. The protests tonight have been largely peaceful.

We need to tell you just moments ago, a young man was handcuffed and taken into custody. And as we look now, as I am seeing, there is an impromptu press conference that is going on just to -- out of my eyesight to the left, out of my eye line. And again, moments ago, someone was arrested here on the streets.

Again, as we've been saying, there have been peaceful protests going on for most of the evening. There is no curfew tonight. And as you can probably hear, the police helicopter back up in the sky tonight. Protesters back out on the streets. The National Guard also monitoring the streets of Ferguson, Missouri, tonight. We're going to give you details on this arrest as we get them in.

Let's take a look now of the video of this young man being arrested here. Just moments ago on the streets here. And there it is. There you see it. It was a big commotion as we were in a commercial break. Not exactly sure what's happened.

Our Jake Tapper is out live in the crowd, trying to get some information for us. And as soon as we figure out exactly what's going on, we'll bring it to you right here on CNN. We're monitoring it all for you.

You know, let's move on now and talk about the police officer's identity. Because it took six days to identify that police officer. His name is Darren Wilson. He's the policeman who fired the lethal shots into Michael Brown. But there is still a mystery surrounding the six-year veteran of the Ferguson Police Department.

CNN's Brian Todd has more for you now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This is the first video we're seeing of Officer Darren Wilson in the moments after the shooting. Piaget Crenshaw is the eyewitness who shot the video.

PIAGET CRENSHAW, EYEWITNESS: He's just looking over the body, just looking baffled and bewildered. So it's like -- like, trying to explain to the officer, "What have I just done?" And then we get this picture of him pacing back and forth. Just like in disbelief.

TODD: And the first account of Officer Wilson's version of events. A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation tells CNN, the account of a caller to radio station KFTK is accurate and matches what Wilson has told investigators. The caller said Michael Brown punched Officer Wilson in the face as Wilson tried to get out of his squad car and that Brown tried to grab the officer's gun. That they struggled. Wilson's gun went off. Brown turned and ran and that when Officer Wilson yelled at Brown to freeze, Brown turned and started taunting the officer.

JOSIE (VIA PHONE): Then he said all of a sudden, he just started to bum rush him. He just started coming at him full speed. He just kept coming.

TODD: Friends of Brown say he did not fight for the gun and was shot as he put his hands up. These accounts surface as we get new details on Officer Darren Wilson.

A friend of Wilson's who didn't want to be named says Wilson went through a divorce last year and has a child. Sources confirm this is a photo of Wilson first published by Yahoo.com from his father's Facebook page. It references a commendation Wilson got in February.

CHIEF THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON POLICE DEPARTMENT: He is a gentleman. He's a quiet officer, and he is, he has been an excellent officer for the police department.

TODD: The 28-year-old has spent four years with the Ferguson Police and has a clean record according to officials. Jake Shepard, a longtime friend, was asked if Wilson had any racist tendencies.

JAKE SHEPARD, FRIEND OF WILSON: He never talked about minorities. I mean, he was of the moral virtue where he would -- he would never bring something like that up.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TODD: A friend of Officer Wilson's told us he never made racist comments in public or privately with friends. That friend, who's spoken to Officer Wilson since the shooting told me Wilson is, quote, "struggling right now."

A St. Louis County police official tells us Wilson has cooperated with the investigation and has been interviewed twice.

Brian Todd, CNN, Washington.

LEMON: All right. We'll talk more about the officer in a moment. We want to get back to our breaking news now, about the arrest that has been made here. Really the only commotion we have seen within the last couple of hours. I want to get now to CNN's Ed Lavandera, who is down there.

Ed, do we know what happened? What was the arrest for?

ED LAVANDERA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It's kind of what we've seen several times through course of the last few hours. And these are people, and the key tonight is what authorities are telling people. That they need to keep moving. They need to keep moving in a circle around the street here. And people who are not, and standing around too long are basically being arrested for failure to disperse.

So we've seen that -- I've seen that probably about three times tonight so far. We just spoke with Captain Ron Johnson, who is trying to -- he told us he didn't have the exact numbers on how many people have been arrested so far. But I've seen about two or three.

LEMON: He is getting an earful from people. What are they saying?

LAVANDERA: You know, it was really fascinating. So we were trying to ask him some questions, and it didn't take too long before we were kind of surrounded by a group of demonstrators, started kind of over shouting our questions.

And again, Captain Ron Johnson kind of passionately defending the way the police are handling this situation. And it was interesting, because it got to point, and we've heard this several times here tonight. Is that a lot of the businesses that are along this stretch of road have been shut down for several days now.

LEMON: Losing money.

LAVANDERA: And they're losing money. And Captain Johnson making that point tonight that one of the people who -- several of the people who were yelling at him about the way police have responded here. And captain Johnson is saying to them, "Look, by doing this -- by doing this for so long and being out here and in this at times dangerous way, we're destroying what is built here. And you're actually scaring people from opening businesses here in the future.

LEMON: Yes. We spoke to a sandwich store owner who said he's losing about a thousand dollars a day. And for him, for a small business, that is a lot of money, especially when you add it up over day after day after day. This has been going on. He said even his lunch time crowd, people don't want to come in because they're afraid, and they don't want to deal with all of the police presence.

Ed, stand by. I want to get now to Jake Tapper, who's out on the streets.

Jake, this is the only real confrontation that we've seen for the last couple of hours. There have been a few arrests. We saw some altercations earlier. What are you seeing? What happened?

TAPPER: Well, everything is fine here. We marched all the way down, about a mile down the street and now we're back. I'm here with Reverend Dinah Tapman. She's from about three miles away. And I just wanted to get her perspective as a woman of the cloth.

What is this march about for you?

REV. DINAH TAPMAN, PROTESTER: Well, it's not only about Mike Brown. It's about all of those who have been victimized and their rights have been infringed upon. This is about a sense of hopelessness and helplessness and disrespect.

So this is something that's been cooking and boiling, and it finally erupted. And so the march is just about that. They want to see justice. But also, just the freedom to voice how they feel. And I think giving them that opportunity makes them feel like they are citizens of this state, but citizens of the United States.

TAPPER: Well said. Don, back to you.

LEMON: All right. Jake Tapper, thank you very much. We'll be hearing from protesters, from people out on the streets all evening long here on CNN. When we come right back, the role that race plays in the Michael Brown case. We're back live from Ferguson, Missouri. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: Back now live with the breaking news. You can see the protesters here still on the street. And many of them making their way really close to our camera. They're supposed to keep moving. If they don't keep moving, then police will arrest them. They're actually not supposed to be in the middle of the streets, but they are in the middle of the streets tonight.

And again, police are monitoring them. The National Guard monitoring them, as well. There was a bit of a commotion earlier here. One man was arrested. According to our Ed Lavandera, he said that was for failure to disperse. He says he's seen at least one or two people arrested from earlier this evening. We'll continue to monitor that.

And let's get back now to our conversation. We want to talk about race.

Joining me now is Ed Davis. He's a former police commissioner of Boston. Also with us, Charles Blow, a CNN political commentator and op-ed columnist for "The New York Times." Juliette Kayyem is CNN national security analyst, and Mark O'Mara, CNN legal analyst and a criminal defense attorney. Thanks to all of you for joining us. Let's talk about this.

Ed, you are a former police commissioner in Boston. You are critical of how this was hand from the very beginning. Why so? How so?

ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Well, we tried to imagine a scenario where it could have been handled any worse.

From the time that the body was left to lie in the street and not be covered, to the lack of arrival at the home of the victim's family. You know, the outreach, the compassion that needs to be shown wasn't shown here.

That being said, this whole incident was on the shoulders of one man, the police chief, who is a small-town police chief who doesn't have a law office, who doesn't have a public relations office. I think that the lack of leadership beyond the police chief was really shocking in this case.

LEMON: Juliette, you know, a woman claiming to be a friend of Officer Darren Wilson's, she backs up the officer's account of a struggle before the fatal shooting. If this is indeed true, does that make a difference in this case?

JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, there's two different cases. One is the death of Michael Brown. And I'm not sure I would believe her story. It sounds like it's coming directly from the police officer's account. This is why we have trials. If it gets to trial and a jury that will determine where the facts are.

The second issue is, of course, what we're seeing on TV right now, which you know, agreeing with Commissioner Davis, this was not inevitable. There is nothing inevitable about what we're seeing right now. This was a horrible police shooting that should have ended that day with an investigation, possibly an arrest. And the series of bad judgment calls. And including the lack of involvement by Governor Nixon. Here's a small town dealing with essentially now, not just a racial

crisis but international focus -- has -- it's just objectionable at this stage.

The National Guard is appropriate to protect the police. But we just have to assume that over time, that this is going to at least calm down a little bit and then let the judicial process work its way through in this.

LEMON: OK, stand by, everyone. I want to talk about what we're seeing here. We're seeing several people, really the crowd start to scatter and run, and again, there's a big commotion going on. We're not exactly sure what's going on, but we want to keep an eye on it for you.

Just because, as we said, it is a tinder box sometimes, and quite honestly, I was out in it today. It can be provoked by police if they use those really heavy-handed tactics.

Charles Blow, what do you make of the situation as we look at these pictures here and as you've seen the scenes throughout the day and really overnight?

CHARLES BLOW, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that there is a lot of frustration. There's a lot of fatigue on the streets of Ferguson and in America. Not necessarily physical fatigue but like it's kind of a psychic cultural fatigue of having to repeat this process over and over and over again. That this is not just about Ferguson and Mr. Brown and Mr. Wilson. That this is an issue that I think we have to deal with in a broader sense. That there is bias in our policing and in our judicial system and even before that, in our educational system. And we found out last month or this month in our preschool systems.

From the moment that black and brown people are introduced to power structures in this country, they experience some level of bias. And I think that a lot of there is an exhaling of that pent-up frustration with that. And I think -- I feel, my heart goes out to people who are feeling that there. But also who are feeling it everywhere, who are feeling it in this country. It's an important conversation for to us continue to have, because only through having it do we get close to even solving it.

LEMON: OK. Charles Blow, stand by. Mark O'Mara, I'm going to get you in on the other side as we continue to watch these pictures from Ferguson, Missouri. We're going to take a short break. We'll be right back with the breaking news.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON: We're back with breaking news. There is a big commotion going on here. We're at the site of the protesters. Where we are standing, we have seen several water bottles being thrown, also tactical units being moved in here. And our Ed Lavandera is out in the crowd.

Ed, what can you tell us? What's going on out there? LAVANDERA: Hey, Don, well, this is a group of demonstrators that have

been moving against the rules and the way the police have set it up the situation.

Can you hear me, Don?

LEMON: I can hear...

LAVANDERA: Don, can you hear me?

Hey Don -- so, Don, the situation here is that as you're looking over my shoulder here, this is a group of several hundred demonstrators. They moved up toward the police line. Just try to let that die down one second. But they moved up toward the police line. Captain Ron Johnson had been out here a little while ago as we talked about, Don, talking just to some of the people, and they started getting an earful as he started to walk away and go back toward the command center. It seemed to have perhaps angered some people, and they started moving toward those police lines.

So we're about 25 yards or so behind -- behind the demonstrator line. And there's kind of a stand-off here at the intersection.

LEMON: Hang on, Ed.

LAVANDERA: You see here...

LEMON: Let's listen to that.

LAVANDERA: ... so people must disperse.

LEMON: And so you can hear what's happening here. Police are trying to get -- trying to get the protesters off the streets. There was some disturbance, as you can see. Police have put on their gas masks. You can see an officer with a scope rifle on top of what appears to be from my vantage point -- I can't see it -- a tank-like vehicle. So it has devolved into chaos here as you are witnessing on CNN.

It was mostly peaceful for quite some time. And as we are listening to this, I think it is important just for us to listen for a moment, and then I'll bring my panel in. Especially Ed Davis, who's the former police commissioner of Boston. But let's stand by. And I just want to you get a flavor of what's going on. We're going to be silent for a minute.

(ALARM SOUND/CROWD NOISES)

LEMON: OK. So let's bring in Ed Davis now. Jake Tapper -- Jake is out there. Jake, what can you tell us? Jake is on the street.

TAPPER: Well, I think it's a chaotic scene, as you can see, Don. The police are here. And they are aggressively dispersing the crowd. As we've been discussing, the whole point of tonight was the crowd was supposed to keep marching. But somewhere in the last 10, 15 minutes, the crowd stopped marching. Or many of them did, anyway. And they started just consolidating. And now you're seeing something of a face-off between police, National

Guard, state, highway patrol. And here's an image that I haven't seen since last time I was in Afghanistan. A state patrol, up-armored vehicle of some sort.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need to get it out.

TAPPER: I have it here.

LEMON: Less than an hour ago you were walking peacefully with protesters in the street and now this.

TAPPER: I'm being told I need to get my gas mask out. So I'm just -- pardon me for one second while I prepare it.

Do you see the members of the community? This is a gentleman who was helping to lead the parade earlier. And he's encouraging other people, including reporters. This is the famous Fletcher Johnson right here. Filming. Hey, Fletch.

And as the police are forming this perimeter, and I don't know what they're planning on doing here. We have the media on the side, on the sides. The crowd has dispersed quite a bit. There were individuals way back in the crowd throwing things. It looked like water bottles, but they were being thrown at the police and the National Guard.

The tensions seem to have alleviated, at least temporarily. Somebody is flying an American flag upside-down. The symbol for a distress call. And the troopers, the state police, the state highway patrol, now they're clearing out to make room for another armored vehicle.

That sound that you're hearing is coming from the police, incidentally. It's some sort of alarm system.

LEMON: Yes. It's what they use. It's like, something that they use to get officers up.

Hey, Jake, stand by. I'm going to get right back to you, but I just want to update our viewers.

In case you're just tuning into CNN, it has devolved into chaos here on the streets. We're seeing members of the National Guard here. You also see police out in tactical gear. They're trying to disperse the protesters from the streets. Some protesters started throwing water bottles. Police and members of the National Guard started to put on their gas masks. They told Jake Tapper, who is out in the crowd that he needs to put on his gas mask, as well. And as Jake has been reporting out there, he said that he hasn't seen this since he was in Iraq.

Jake Tapper out in the crowd. Continue, Jake. What are you seeing?

TAPPER: Well, I mean, you just see -- you see police officers with guns and batons and shields. They're all wearing gas masks. Not all of them, but most of them are wearing gas masks. Here they're about to -- they just parted a way for another vehicle to make its way through, but then the vehicle stopped. It's not coming out.

It's really quite a sight. I don't know why they're standing here, ready for such armed confrontation when the crowd has dispersed so significantly. It's really -- I mean if you look at what they're facing...

LEMON: Stand by. Stand by, Jake. So we're going to continue to follow this breaking news story. But again, this is what -- stand by, stand by, Jake. We'll get to you.

Listen, this is a very chaotic scene out here. You're watching this unfold as we are. We're standing by here with our gas masks. Our Jake Tapper was told to put his on. Most of the members of law enforcement are out with theirs on now, and they're trying to get -- disperse these protesters from the streets here.

Again, it was supposed to be a peaceful night with no curfew. The governor ordering -- lifting that curfew and then bringing in members of the National Guard.

The next hour of CNN TONIGHT starts right now.