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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

Protesters Defy Curfew; New Video Of Michael Brown Shooting Scene; What's Next For Officer Darren Wilson

Aired August 18, 2014 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: CNN reached out to the Ferguson Police Department for comment but so far we have not received a response. Miss Crenshaw spoke with my colleague, Michaela Pereira on "NEW DAY" this morning and took her back to that emotional moment and why she felt the need to record what was going on outside. I just want to draw your attention to the part of the video, you actually see the officer in question, Darren Wilson, standing on the right-hand side. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PIAGET CRENSHAW, WITNESS: All initially happened and I knew this was not right. I knew, I knew the police shouldn't have even before chasing this young boy and firing at the same time. And the fact that he got shot in his face, it was something that clicked in me like, no, somebody needs to see this. This isn't right. I got to record.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: So you pulled out your cell phone camera and started rolling. How long after it all happened? You saw the whole scenario play out, right?

CRENSHAW: Yes, ma'am. But I waited -- 30 seconds, I had to get my phone, I had to hurry up, put on the camera and start recording what I saw.

PEREIRA: So walk me through that.

CRENSHAW: So about 30 seconds. What we're looking at is Officer Darren Wilson to the right. He's just looking over the body. Just looking baffled and bewildered. So it's like -- trying to explain to the officer, what had I just done. And then we get this picture of him pacing back and forth, just, like, in disbelief. So, like, it's like he understands that he just shot this boy in the face and that this boy was unarmed.And to me this video, just seems relative to this time period especially including the fact that Chief Jackson said that the reason that this video wasn't even on the media at the time when it should have been was because he wanted to get all the information out at the same time.You know, under the freedom of information act, but they could have easily given these videos as well, because these confiscated my phone.

PEREIRA: So let's go back to that in a second. So they -- take me back to the moment when you see a tussle at the police cruiser. What was going on? What happened?

CRENSHAW: From my point of view, I could not tell exactly what was going on. It looked as if he was trying to pull him --

PEREIRA: Who pulled? The officer pulled --

CRENSHAW: Mike Brown into the car. It looked like he was trying to do such. Brown being a bigger fella, that didn't seem to be working so, of course, he got away and it seemed to have upset the officer.

PEREIRA: And then what happened?

CRENSHAW: Got out, ran, started chasing after the boy. I'm hearing shots fired. Clearly none of them hit him. Then I think one grazed him as they said on the autopsy report. At the end, he just turned around, after I'm guessing he felt the bullet graze his arm, he turned around and was shot multiple times.

PEREIRA: The autopsy is now showing that he was shot from the front, not the back.

CRENSHAW: Exactly.

PEREIRA: Does that square with what you saw?

CRENSHAW: Definitely. Because he was running away, so when he turned towards the cop is when he let off the -- more shots.

PEREIRA: I hear your voice. You sound really upset.

CRENSHAW: I haven't even lived there a month. I had just moved there out of my parent's home. And to see something like this outside of my window as I'm trying to go to work, it's just -- it's traumatizing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And when Michaela performed that interview this morning, the news conference hadn't happened with Dr. Michael Baden and his assistant and they actually clarified about where the shots were from, whether the front or the back. Ultimately, they couldn't determine if Michael Brown might have been running away and ultimately was shot in the back of the arm, or if he had turned around, had his arms down or up.So there was some more clarity to these pictures that came just after the interview with Piaget Crenshaw. Ultimately, final questions, as to where Michael Brown was when he was shot. We're learning more about the Ferguson police officer who did the shooting of Michael Brown.Over the weekend, there was a rally to support him. Ahead what his friend told CNN about Officer Darren Wilson. And what are the next legal steps for him in this case? Going to talk about this next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK) BANFIELD: There's been an outpouring of support for 18-year-old Michael Brown and of course, his family, but there has also been support for the officer who shot Brown, Darren Wilson. Came at a rally last night in Ferguson. At the same time, we're getting our first look at Officer Wilson. These photos were first aired by yahoo.com, which said that they were on Wilson's father's Facebook page. That page has now been taken down.A source close to the investigation has confirmed to CNN that it is Wilson in the photo. Now, for his part, Wilson has been on paid administrative leave.He's been a police officer for six years. Four of them with the Ferguson Police Department. We tracked down a friend of his who described him as shy but with a big heart.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE SHEPARD, OFFICER DARREN WILSON'S FRIEND: I could never imagine him even in that situation taking someone's life, let alone taking someone's life with malicious intent, you know. He's just the last person on earth that you would think to do something like that. I mean, it's shocking. I can say, without speaking to Darren, without even having heard his statements, that at that moment in time, he was scared for his life. I am 100 percent positive of that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BANFIELD: So we still don't know exactly what led up to the moment that that shooting happened and took the life of Michael Brown. We've still not been given the account from Officer Darren Wilson, even though a law enforcement source says he has been interviewed twice by detectives. Not unusual that that information isn't public right away, but this is an unusual case. I'm joined again by CNN legal analyst, Mark O'Mara and Paul Callan joining me now as well.Paul, before you were on the set, I asked Mark O'Mara whether he thought there was enough evidence, certainly given the forensics that we're now seeing from Dr. Baden. It's not the state forensic medical examiner, but he is renowned.And Mark said, no. Midwin Charles said yes, but Mark said no, not right away. and I want to get your take on that.

PAUL CALLAN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I watched that, you know, I disagree with Midwin Charles, that routinely an arrest would be made in a case like this. In fact, these investigations usually take five to six months, even when it's a slam dunk case. Now, your question was, could there be an arrest. And I would have to say, yes, there could be an arrest because we have eyewitnesses who allegedly create a use of force scenario that would be illegal.And the prosecutor could say, well, I'm going to put my -- all my eggs, in the basket of that one witness and indict. But prosecutors, good prosecutors, don't do that. They want to investigate, see the entire picture because they have to prove a case beyond a reasonable doubt.And you know something, they also want to do the right thing, if they're being ethical. So I think you won't see an arrest until the investigation is complete.

BANFIELD: And there's so many more questions about that specifically. I just want to turn slightly to, again, the information that we have today, Mark O'Mara. I know you worked in conjunction with experts in police protocol during the Zimmerman case. Probably longer than you wanted to be. You certainly learned a lot about police protocol. When it comes to what this autopsy is telling us, and again, it's telling us some but not all.We don't have the clothing that might have gunshot residue on it. We don't have the distance at which these shots were fired yet. Can you at least shed some light on protocol?

MARK O'MARA, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.

BANFIELD: What can an officer do when he or she fires a weapon? What can't he or she do?

O'MARA: Sure. A couple principles. One, an officer is supposed to apprehend and arrest somebody who's committed a felony. So even a battery on law enforcement officer would be a felony for which that officer is to arrest the person. But the other thing that they are supposed to do is they are allowed to use deadly force, if and only if, they have fear for their own life. That fear can be based upon circumstances such as a previous altercation with the person that supposedly happened in this case.And they're allowed to protect themselves while effectuating that arrest. Another thing that's very interesting that I was told by Dennis Rutt, who I used in the Zimmerman case is that in a situation where you are being confronted, the officer is being confronted.Somebody can cross other a 20, 25-foot path in about a second. So that's the amount of time that an officer would have to make a decision if, in fact, there was a 20-foot, even a 20-foot difference between the two.

BANFIELD: So does that effectively make you start to wonder if the witnesses who said his hands were up, is it possible there might have been a miscalculation by the officer that your hands are out? And when you're within 20 feet, it wouldn't matter at that point? I mean, would that be his argument if he has one?

O'MARA: If you look at the use of force, one of the elements is the difference in size and the difference in aggression. Who's doing what? So if that's true, then the difference in size or, in fact, he's coming back towards the officer, even just stopping from turning around and confronting that an officer might say turning to surrender, Michael Brown might have said.

BANFIELD: I hate this conjecture. I really do. At a time when they are silent and usually for good reason. Authorities are silent about that side of the interview. It seems very one-sided. And it can take a narrative of its own. But there are different scenarios and a best offense when we want to get someone the benefit of the doubt, but certainly could have played out. I could talk to the two of you all day. Thank you both, Mark and Paul. Appreciate it.

O'MARA: Thank you. Tough case.

BANFIELD: Turning now to another big story that we are following. The United States attacks from the air, joining the fight for control of a crucial dam in Iraq. The details on that coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: To the latest news now out of Iraq, and it is big news. Kurdish officials say that they have taken control of the Mosul Dam from ISIS militants. And that is a big deal. The United States helped the Kurdish operation with more than 15 airstrikes, they say, on ISIS targets that were near the dam. Kurdish forces need control of that dam to ensure that it remains intact, otherwise massive deadly flooding could hit some of Iraq's largest cities, including Baghdad.

And checking some other top stories now as well. WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange says he plans to leave Ecuador's embassy in London soon. But WikiLeaks says that his departure is not imminent. Two different messages. Assange, who has health problems, is accused by the United States of publishing secret intelligence documents and he also faces sexual assault allegations in Sweden. He has been living inside that embassy since seeking asylum there two years ago. Assange says he fears Sweden will transfer him to the United States where he could face the death penalty if he's charged and convicted of publishing United States government secrets.

In the Middle East, the latest cease-fire between Israel and Hamas is scheduled to expire just a few hours from now. It has kept things relatively quiet over the last week, but what happens next depends on the outcome of indirect talks between Israeli and Palestinian negotiators who arrived back in Cairo over the weekend. Officials in Gaza say the recent fighting has killed more than 2,000 Palestinians. The Israeli military says 64 of its troops have died in the fighting and three civilians have been killed as well.

Back to our top story, the aftermath of the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown. Missouri is the -- Missouri's governor has called out the National Guard to restore order after protests once again turned violent. We're going to talk with people who are in Ferguson about what they think needs to happen before that order is restored.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: We are closely following the situation in Ferguson, Missouri, as new details continue to come in on the police shooting of 18-year-old Michael Brown and the outrage that has followed. Despite the curfew from midnight to 5:00 a.m., some protesters just would not abide by it. They wouldn't go home or disperse. Children were supposed to return to school today but they can't even do that because the school district is now concerned about their safety and they've kept the district closed.

St. Louis Alderman Antonio French joins me live once again from Ferguson, Missouri. He has spoken with this program before. He tried to convince the protesters to abide by the curfew, but it did not work. And also with us and standing beside Antonio is Reverend Renita Marie Lamkin, who's the pastor of St. John African Methodist Episcopal Church. She also was among some of the protester earlier on in this story and she says police shot her with a rubber bullet during some of the protests there.

Alderman French -- sorry, go ahead.

ANTONIO FRENCH, ST. LOUIS ALDERMAN: I'm here.

BANFIELD: Oh, OK. I'm just - we're just showing what photograph, if I can, of the - of the injury that you sustained, reverend, from the rubber bullet. And, Antonio French, if I could begin with you. With the news now that

-- mostly due to what's happened last night and some of the other prior nights where there's been violence, there's been arrests, tear gas, and even gunfire police say from the crowd, the National Guard is coming in. And I wanted to get your reaction to that, Mr. French.

FRENCH: Yes. You know, I'm worried about safety tonight in Ferguson. The presence of the National Guard, along with the release of the autopsy results and last night's violence, including the gassing of children and women, I think that's a dangerous combination and I'm really worried about what we're going to see tonight. I understand that, you know, if it's true, as the police have said, that their command center was attacked, and they felt like they needed to call for backup, and the National Guard's current mission is to secure that area, then I understand that. But if I think the National Guard starts marching down West Florissant, I worry we're going to have a violent confrontation.

BANFIELD: Reverend Lamkin, what are your thoughts?

REV. RENITA LAMKIN, ST. JOHN AFRICAN METHODIST EPISCOPAL CHURCH: Yes, I agree with Antonio. I think that if the command center needs to be protected, if the police need backup for their own protection, but if it is to be launched against the peaceful protesters, it's a mixture that's going to end very ugly. It's going to be very ugly. I think it's very terrible to have to have the army in the streets.

BANFIELD: Alderman French, just - and, Alderman French, just a last quick point if you can before we have to wrap the show, and that is this, the criticism that police, no matter what police they are, are damned if they do and damned if they don't. What can and should the police be doing tonight, the National Guard, to try not to incite more violence, but at the same time to make sure others are safe?

FRENCH: Yes, it is an awful situation. And we find ourselves in the situation where we need policing, we need security in that scene to allow a safe environment for people to protest. But the very presence of police incites some people. And so it can be a police alone effort. It has to involve community being out here helping to keep order. And that's something that we saw not happen last night.

BANFIELD: Right.

FRENCH: We kind of dropped the ball on that. And so we find ourselves today in a dangerous situation.

BANFIELD: Well, listen -- the best of luck to you. I feel for you and your community. There are so many good people trying to do good things and there are so many others who are not. And it is a terrible clash. And I hope things go much better tonight. Alderman French and Reverend Lamkin, thank you for being with us. I appreciate it.

LAMKIN: Appreciate it. Bye.

BANFIELD: And thank you, everyone, for watching. I'm flat out of time. But stay tuned. "Wolf" is up next and Don Lemon is standing by live. He is in the community of Ferguson and he'll be bringing you that broadcast right after the break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)