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THE SITUATION ROOM
Private Autopsy: Brown Shot Six Times; National Guard Deploying in Ferguson; Investigating Ferguson Police's History; A Fight for Mosul Dam
Aired August 18, 2014 - 17:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: Thanks, Jake.
Happening now, a SITUATION ROOM special report.
Breaking news -- city on the edge. The National Guard is called in after protests spiral into violence. And there's no curfew tonight in Ferguson, Missouri.
Is that an invitation for more trouble?
Shot six times -- an autopsy ordered by his family reveals that Michael Brown's body was riddled with bullet wounds. And we're now learning how the police officer involved describes the shooting.
Plus, Obama speaks out -- the president addresses the violence in Ferguson, as the federal government investigates the shooting.
Wolf Blitzer is off. I'm Brianna Keilar.
You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.
KEILAR: Our breaking news, there are fresh appeals for calm in Ferguson, Missouri after peaceful protests collapsed into chaos with gunshots, firebombs, clouds of tear gas in the streets.
Here are the latest developments.
An independent autopsy ordered by Michael Brown's family shows the teen was shot at least six times, including two wounds to the head. He was not shot at close range.
But a supporter of Officer Darren Wilson says there was a struggle, that Brown at one point grabbed for Wilson's gun and was shot when he charged the officer.
A source with knowledge of the investigation confirms that matches Wilson's account of the shooting.
Now, Missouri's governor has called in the National Guard after what he calls "coordinated attacks" both on civilians and law enforcement officers. But he says Ferguson will not be under curfew tonight. Our correspondents and guests are standing by with full coverage.
And we begin with CNN national correspondent, Jason Carroll.
He is in Ferguson, Missouri -- Jason, what are you learning?
KEILAR: All right. We're having technical difficulties there with Jason's signal.
DR. MICHAEL BADEN, PATHOLOGIST: -- six bullets struck it.
JASON CARROLL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Veteran forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Baden and his team were brought in by the Brown family to perform an independent autopsy.
BADEN: There weren't signs of a struggle.
CARROLL: The autopsy results are the first clues of what may have actually happened on August 9th.
SHAWN PARCELLS, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: The question asked to us was, could that wound occur from him walking away and then he turns around?
It's consistent with that. While the shot could have come from the back, but also could have occurred when he was putting his hands up.
So I put my hands up and you see where that wound is at. It could have happened if he put his arms across in a defensive manner. We don't know.
CARROLL: Some question whether the autopsy refutes eyewitness accounts that Michael Brown was shot as he was running away from Officer Darren Wilson.
One witness who saw most of the incident offers this.
PIAGET CRENSHAW, SHOOTING SCENE WITNESS: He was running away, so when he turned toward the cop is when he led off the most shots.
CARROLL: CNN has reached out to the Ferguson police about the account, but it receive no comment thus far.
Now a source close to Officer Wilson tells a local radio station his version of what took place.
Here's part of that account.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He goes in reverse back to them, tries to get out of his car. He slams his door shut violently, I think he said Michael did. And then he opened his car again, you know, and tries to get out. And as he stands up, Michael just bum rushes him, just shoves him back into his car, punches him in the face. And then, of course, Darren grabs for his gun and Michael grabs the gun.
At one point, he's got the gun totally turned against his -- his hip and Darren, you know, shoves it away and the gun goes off.
CARROLL: A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation says the caller's portrayal of the officer's account is accurate.
Meantime, the unrest continues.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Disperse the area immediately.
CARROLL: On the governor's orders, the Missouri National Guard troops have been called up. Officials are struggling with a city on edge.
CAPT. RONALD S. JOHNSON, MISSOURI HIGHWAY PATROL: Police were shot at. Makeshift barricades were set up to block police. Bottles and rockets were thrown at police. Based on these conditions, I had no alternative but to elevate the level of our response.
CARROLL: Several people were hurt in the clashes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We were walking peacefully down to the mall and a young lady was hit in her face with smoke bombs and tear gas. This is unacceptable and this is not the law. This is unacceptable. Until we get justice, we will not stop.
CARROLL: And, Brianna, things got so bad out here last night, at one point, police tell me that the command post, which is just up the road from where I'm standing, almost got overrun. Thankfully, that did not happen.
But once again, those appeals for calm that you talked about clearly still not being heard out here -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Jason, describe the scene behind you. We see some folks with signs. We're hearing honking there.
CARROLL: Yes. You know, that's what we've been seeing out here every day, those -- that honking that you hear, that's -- those are people driving by honking in support of the protestors that have been gathering out here. And, in fact, just a few moments ago, a community leader was trying to organize those people who are out here. They've gathered on the street. Trying to get them to a community organizing event which is expected to happen within the next 30 minutes or so.
But this is what we've seen consistently out here during the day and into the early evening. People like you see out here are coming, peacefully protesting, carrying their signs, voicing their political opinions.
Where you always get the turn is at night. Once the sun goes down, that's when things seem to turn ugly.
KEILAR: That's right. Those people behind you want to be heard and certainly are being heard.
Jason Carroll, thank you so much.
And with the National Guard deploying amid warnings that more violence will not be tolerated, let's find out about the mood there in Ferguson from CNN's Don Lemon.
This is really the question, Don -- what's the mood like? Are we expecting to see perhaps a repeat of last night?
DON LEMON, CNN CORRESPONDENT: I would hope that we're not expecting to see that. But certainly authorities here are -- are bracing for that.
As I have been describing this earlier. It's really a tinder box, where, at any moment, something can ignite and something can erupt. Any little thing can set people off.
And as you can hear, you can hear in Jason's live shot, you can hear in my shot, people are driving by and honking. And they've been doing that all day. And as the day moves on here, you can hear it more and more.
There are people standing around me with signs, "No Justice, No Peace!." We were down at the QT, I guess about a quarter of a mile down the road, just a little bit earlier. And that's where, really, everyone had been gathering here. That was the site where protesters had been gathering. And then officers came in earlier, as we were on the air, saying non-essential media, if you weren't in the middle of a live show, that you -- everyone had to get out and that you could not congregate in one area. You could protest. You could keep walking, but you could not stop and stand still and congregate in -- in an area.
And so we have been sitting here -- or standing here witnessing people get arrested for people who were just sort of standing, and, as they say, exercising their right to protest, and getting arrested. We saw at least three arrests here at this particular location, and one of the last location where we were.
But as I said, it is a tinder box. Earlier last week when we were here, things had calmed down toward the end of the week. Brianna, I went away for just a couple of hours on Saturday morning and came back yesterday and everything had ignited. Quite frankly, hell broke loose.
And I got to witness and be a part of having guns drawn on us as we got to certain locations where we would have to put our hands up and identify ourselves as media. But quite frankly, there were shots in the area and officers were very concerned and they were in fear for their safety.
But I mean it has been really a precarious situation here since I have been back, and, really, since Saturday night, when more violence erupted here -- Brianna. KEILAR: We're watching, Don, just how -- how the community is responding and how disruptive this is. The first day of school there in that area put off yet again today.
Tell us, as well, about this rally that was scheduled for tonight, but it appears it's been called off?
LEMON: Well, yes. There are -- there are a number of rallies that were scheduled for this evening and scheduled for today. There was one that was scheduled for this morning and nothing really came of it. There's one, that you mentioned, that was scheduled for tonight and it has been called off. Members of a certain group here, the Black Lawyers for Justice Association, which was formerly the New Black Panthers, they are calling, really, for a five day moratorium on evening protests at sundown. So they're saying at sundown, everyone should go back into their homes, there shouldn't be any protesting, there should not be, obviously, any -- any violence or any rioting at all.
They're saying that there needs to be a break, that there needs to be a point here where there is a reset to try to get the handle on some of the violence. What they're saying is the people who are causing that violence, whether it -- they feel that they're provoked by police, whatever the mitigating factor is for that, they think that those people are overshadowing the real issue here. And that is the disconnect between police officers and the community, and, also, the death of Michael Brown. And they believe that they are doing a disservice by causing violence and looting and rioting to the family of Michael Brown, to the man who was put in charge of the people here, the Missouri Highway Patrol.
So they believe that, you know, that's a disservice to them.
And, also, there's some concern here, too, about the autopsy being released today, the findings of how many shots, at least six times. They believe that the police went overboard and there was too much force with that, as well.
So every little factor here plays into whether or not there's going to be any violence, your question that you asked me just moments ago.
KEILAR: All right, Don. Stand by for us, as we are watching to see, certainly, how things progress there in Ferguson this evening.
Meantime, what Don's talking reverberating all the way back here to Washington. President Obama has just spoken out about the tensions and the violence there in Ferguson.
So let's turn now to our CNN White House correspondent, Michelle Kosinski.
Tell us what he said -- Michelle.
MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Brianna.
I think very careful is a good way to describe this statement. And the president didn't want to pass judgment, as he put it, too early. He didn't want to make a statement on the facts of the case at this point.
And he equally condemned violence against protesters by the police, as he did violence toward the police.
He did address racial tensions in a general sense, acknowledging that there are communities and groups of young people who feel like they're not a part of things. But he also acknowledged that there are young black men who commit crimes and that they should be prosecuted, saying that one thing we could do in this country is to look at whether there are disparities in treatment within the justice system.
Here's some of what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We have all seen images of protesters and law enforcement in the streets. It's clear that the vast majority of people are peacefully protesting.
What's also clear is that a small minority of individuals are not. And while I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown, giving in to that anger by looting or carrying guns and even attacking the police only serves to raise tensions and stir chaos. It undermines rather than advancing justice.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KOSINSKI: So what the president is going to do now is send the attorney general to Ferguson, Missouri on Wednesday. He's going to meet with other members of the Department of Justice team who have opened now a federal investigation into the case, whether civil rights might have been violated. He's also going to work with local leaders to try to tame the tensions there.
You know, one thing that's been really important to both the president and the attorney general in the statements that they've made so far is making sure that the police response doesn't inflame those tensions.
So what about the governor deciding to send in the National Guard?
It was also reported that the White House didn't even know about that, even though the White House had been working closely with the governor?
Well, the White House wouldn't respond today as to whether they knew about the National Guard's involvement or not. But the president said in a statement just now that he did speak to the governor today and the president wanted to make sure that if the National Guard was used, it was in a very limited way -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Michelle Kosinski for us at the White House. Thank you.
And next, the unrest and the crackdown -- we will get reaction to the latest developments in Ferguson from the NAACP.
And we have new information on the officer who pulled the trigger and how he has described the shooting.
KEILAR: The National Guard deploys in Ferguson, Missouri, and President Obama appeals for calm. But will the autopsy results showing Michael Brown was shot six times stir new outrage?
Let's get reaction to the latest developments now. John Gaskin is an NAACP board member, and Cedric Alexander is president of the National Organization of Black Law Enforcement Executives.
And I want to get the reaction from both of you first to what we just heard from President Obama. We heard him address Ferguson. He was talking about not wanting to prejudge. He doesn't want to put his hands on the scale, but certainly, he was acknowledging the reality of what's going on there on the ground.
First to you, John. What did you take from what he said?
JOHN GASKIN, NAACP BOARD MEMBER: Well, from what I got out of it is that it's obviously a top issue of concern to the president. The fact that he took time out of his schedule to address the matter and that he has meetings scheduled with Attorney General Holder shows that it's a major priority. The fact that the attorney general will be here visiting with local leaders and visiting with law enforcement that's here on the ground from the FBI and from the Justice Department obviously shows that this is a priority.
But from our standpoint, we want to make sure that it remains a top priority. We are glad that the president has spoke [SIC] out regarding this issue and is bringing more national attention to it. And is certainly making sure that he weighs in on it and making sure that he can do everything within his power that a fair unbiased investigation takes place. I think that's quite important, especially with the unrest that's here on the ground in the statement that he further made regarding the National Guard being used in a limited way. I think that's -- I think that speaks volumes.
KEILAR: Yes, and certainly he's -- he's going to be keeping an eye on that, certainly. Cedric, what did you think? Does it help when the president speaks out?
CEDRIC ALEXANDER, PRESIDENT, NOBLE: Absolutely.
KEILAR: Or is he powerless in this situation?
ALEXANDER: No, he's very powerful in this situation. He's the president of the United States.
I think what we have to note here is that this is a national issue. The issue that has taken place today right there in Ferguson is being viewed around the world. So I think it's critically important for us to remember that the
president made a statement. He was very clear about the position that we should wait and not make judgment, but a totality of an investigation is going to be paramount to the outcome of this case. And -- and I think the very responsible position that he's took as president of the United States is very well respected by myself and everyone.
KEILAR: And part of that investigation, because there are not, as we can tell, cameras at this point capturing the killing of Michael Brown. Part of the investigation is sorting out the differing views of what happened.
We're starting to hear, John, from Darren Wilson in a way, sort of his side of the story. That's the police officer who shot and killed Michael Brown. We have a source corroborating what this woman, who is a friend of Wilson's who calls herself simply Josie. She called into a radio station and here's what she said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSIE, FRIEND OF DARREN WILSON (via phone): And as he stands up, Michael just bum rushes him, just shoves him back into his car, punches him in the face, and then, of course, Darren grabs for his gun and Michael grabs the gun. At one point he's got the gun totally turned against his hip, and Darren shoves it away and the gun goes off.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KEILAR: If that's true, John, does it make a difference in this case?
GASKIN: Well, here's what we want to look at. You know, it's still early, and a lot of information is being forthcoming. The autopsy that's come out today, they've mentioned that there's more information to come out. There's still information that is forthcoming.
One thing about her, she didn't necessarily really reveal exactly who she was. I think that says a lot going forward. You know, who this particular individual is. Once we know somewhat who this person is, that may add some credibility or take away some credibility about what it is that she has to say, especially I believe you said that she called in kind of somewhat anonymously.
GASKIN: You know, we really kind of need to find out who this particular person is before we take what she has to say really seriously.
KEILAR: And Cedric, I want to see what you think of that. We're getting this side, it appears, from some sort of compatriot of the officers. We heard from a friend of Michael Brown's that he had been shot in the back. We're learning from the autopsy today released by, really, Michael Brown's family that he was shot from the -- at the front of his body. I mean, between this account that you're hearing and the autopsy results, what kind of difference does this make, do you think?
ALEXANDER: Well, you know, I think there's some very glaring evidence that is coming in, but we have to remember this. We have to look at this case in its totality. A lot of the evidence that's being presented on the news every night is coming in spottedly. All of that evidence is going to have to be brought together -- witness statement, forensics evidence at the scene, officer's statement -- and everything is going to have to be considered into the calculation so that we will have a very clear view of what occurred.
We all want justice done here, because clearly there were a lot of missteps that took place...
ALEXANDER: ... very early on in this investigation. That creates a great deal of pause. But we can't prejudge, and we have to wait till all the information is in.
KEILAR: Yes. No matter the truth, it reveals so much distrust of police in this community and other ones, as well. John and Cedric, thank you to both of you.
ALEXANDER: Thank you.
KEILAR: And coming up: a look at the police officer who pulled the trigger and his account of the fatal shooting of Michael Brown and how local police view the shooting of Michael Brown and the outrage in their community. You're in THE SITUATION ROOM.
KEILAR: Our breaking news: A private autopsy shows Michael Brown was shot at least six times and not at close range.
But a supporter of officer Darren Wilson tells a radio station that Brown grabbed for Wilson's gun and was shot when he rushed the officer. A source with knowledge of the investigation confirms that matches Wilson's side of the story.
CNN's Brian Todd has been looking into the officer's background and he's joining us now live -- Brian.
BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Brianna, tonight, we're getting new information about this man.
We have learned that before the shooting, the past year had seen a mixture of professional success and personal setbacks in officer Wilson's life, and, tonight, we're hearing for the first time his own account of the shooting along with that of a crucial eyewitness.
TODD (voice-over): This is the first video we're seeing of officer Darren Wilson in the moments after the shooting. Piaget Crenshaw is the eyewitness who shot the video. PIAGET CRENSHAW, WITNESS: He's just looking over the body, just
looking baffled and bewildered of sorts, like trying to explain to the officer, what had I just done? And then we get this picture of him pacing back and forth just like in disbelief.
TODD: And the first account of officer Wilson's version of events. A source with detailed knowledge of the investigation tells CNN the account of a caller to radio station KFTK is accurate and matches what Wilson has told investigators. The caller said Michael Brown punched officer Wilson in the face as Wilson tried to get out of his squad car to address Brown and that Brown tried to grab the officer's gun, that they struggled, Wilson's gun went off, Brown turned and ran, and that when officer Wilson yelled at Brown to freeze, Brown turned and started taunting the officer.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And then he said, all of a sudden, he just started to bum-rush him. He just started coming at him full speed, and so he just started shooting, and he just kept coming.
TODD: Friend of Brown say he did not fight for the gun and was shot as he put his hands up. These accounts surface as we get new details on officer Darren Wilson. A friend of Wilson's who didn't want to be named says Wilson went through a divorce last year and has a child. Sources confirm this is a photo of Wilson first published by Yahoo.com from his father's Facebook page. It references a commendation Wilson got in February.
THOMAS JACKSON, FERGUSON, MISSOURI, POLICE CHIEF: He's a gentleman. He's a quiet officer. And he was -- he is, has been an excellent officer for the police department.
TODD: The 28-year-old has spent four years with the Ferguson police and has a clean record, according to officials.
Jake Shepard, a longtime friend, was asked if Wilson had any racist tendencies.
JAKE SHEPARD, FRIEND OF DARREN WILSON: He never talked about minorities. He was of the moral virtue where he would never bring something like that up.
TODD: A friend of Wilson's told me he never made racist comments in public or privately with friends. A friend who has spoken to officer Wilson since the shooting told me Wilson is -- quote -- "struggling right now." The friend said Wilson is in a safe place.
A Saint Louis County police official told me Wilson has been cooperated with the investigation and has been interviewed twice -- Brianna.
KEILAR: What's his status right now with the Ferguson Police Department?
TODD: Well, the chief of that the department, Thomas Jackson, told me that he's on administrative leave now with play. Thomas Jackson says if he's exonerated both criminally and internally, he will return to active service with the police. And I asked the chief about whether he's got any protection or any secure location for him. He would not comment on any of that. He's not going there.
KEILAR: Yes. You would imagine that he would, though. Brian Todd, a it's very good question. Maybe we will find out in the days to come. Appreciate the report.
We have now seen the results of one autopsy and we have heard officer Darren Wilson's side of the story.
Let's get reaction now from Gabe Crocker. He's the president of the Saint Louis County Police Association.
Gabe, thanks for being with us. And also I know that you haven't spoken directly with Officer Wilson, but you have been in touch with certainly some people who are in touch with officer Wilson. How is he doing?
GABE CROCKER, PRESIDENT, SAINT LOUIS COUNTY POLICE ASSOCIATION: Well, you know, I think he's going through a very rough time right now. Obviously, there's an incredible amount of pressure on him and his family.
It can't -- obviously can't be easy for this officer to be going through this. And he's under a tremendous amount of pressure right now.
KEILAR: We're hearing the story coming out from one of his friends on a local radio station. We have heard sources familiar with officer Wilson's accounting of the events of that day, and they tell us that this is very much in line with what he thinks.
When are we going to get his side of the story officially from him, do you think?
CROCKER: From the -- I'm having a bit of a hard time hearing you with the noise and the traffic.
CROCKER: Your question one more time.
KEILAR: When will we get his side of the story here?
CROCKER: Well, I think you're going to get that side of the story when the investigation is presented to the prosecutors, no matter which way, shape or form that ends up taking on.
And, you know, our county prosecutor, Bob McCulloch, is waiting to hear from the police and they will forward that investigation on. But I can tell you what everybody wants. It's what the police want. It's what the folks behind me want, which is a fair, open, honest investigation. I can assure you that. KEILAR: But, in that regard, police at this point are not being very
forthcoming about the circumstances of the events. We're hearing from a woman who causes herself Josie, a friend of officer Wilson's.
Can you see how some people feel that the facts really aren't out there and that the police are not being forthcoming?
And I can tell that you there are police commanders, Captain Johnson, who's handling the tactical situation at the command post, all of these people are just as concerned about this lack of release of information.
But a lot of that is happening for a particular reason, because the folks that are asking for that fair, open, honest investigation have to understand that it does take a little bit of time. And, obviously, we're all aware of the national pressure that's on our local officers, our departments, the investigators that are handling this investigation.
And so it's a tremendous amount of pressure on them. And it's not something that we should rush through. I don't think there's any conspiracy at this time to try to delay that stuff from coming out.
KEILAR: Yes, and I'm wondering, do you know if officer Wilson knew Michael Brown?
CROCKER: I don't have any information about that kind -- I don't have any information along those lines.
KEILAR: But your background, I would wonder, your background in law enforcement and obviously working with so many officers in law enforcement, this is a small police force, pretty small, 53 officers. Would you be surprised if he or his colleagues weren't aware of people in their community, Michael Brown, for instance?
CROCKER: You know, again, I mean, I can't speculate whether or not these officers knew him or knew of him. You know, I don't know the particular backgrounds.
But what I know is, it's not uncommon for officers to come into contact with people in the community. But I certainly wouldn't be able to say for any -- with any degree of certainty at all whether officers had encountered Mr. Brown previously.
KEILAR: All right, Gabe Crocker, thank you so much for being with us. Really appreciate it from the Saint Louis County Police Association.
And just ahead, there are new allegations that the Ferguson police have a history of violence. I will talk live with the lawyer of this man. He says that he was detained and beaten by the Ferguson police.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KEILAR: Following the breaking news out of Ferguson, as the Missouri
town prepares for another night of protests.
And we're also investigating a case from 2009 that may shed light on Michael Brown's death. Henry Davis says he was wrongfully arrested and beaten by the Ferguson police. That was back in 2009. And he was then charged with destruction of property for bleeding on police officers' uniforms, as well as with assault of an officer, that charge filed after Davis filed a civil suit.
Now, the charges were later dropped, Davis, as I mentioned, currently suing.
And joining me now is his attorney, James Schottel.
So, I imagine that when you heard what happened in Ferguson, James, you must have the felt in -- certainly just -- I guess just tell us what you thought. I don't want to put words in your mouth.
JAMES SCHOTTEL, ATTORNEY FOR HENRY DAVIS: Well, when I had heard what happened in Ferguson, I basically told a couple of my colleagues and a couple of people that asked me if I have heard about it, and I said it really doesn't surprise me.
In prosecuting Mr. Davis' case, you always look closely at the department, you know, in the city of Ferguson to see if there's a problem there and that they are, you know, responsible or the moving force behind you know, the incident of the constitutional violation.
And I uncovered some very, very bad things that were going on within the department with respect to use of force reporting and retention of those reports and officers' personnel files.
SCHOTTEL: And it was rather shocking on what they were doing within the department.
KEILAR: And also that it was lax, I think certainly before the new chief came in, about reporting of use of force.
You know, your client, his case is really centered around the fact that this was a case of mistaken identity. He was mistaken for another Henry Davis with a different middle name and a different Social Security number, obviously not him. And certainly, when he was in jail, he certainly sustained some of those wounds that we see in those pictures.
He alleges that he was assaulted, kicked in the head, that there were a number of officers involved, I think four. Are those officers still working for the Ferguson Police Department?
SCHOTTEL: All except for one of them. There was a female officer involved, and she is now working for a neighboring local, small law enforcement agency. But all of the other officers are still working.
Officer Beaird, I have seen him behind Chief Jackson in some of the press conferences that Chief Jackson has done.
KEILAR: When you look at your client's case, do you think this is a sort of symptom of a certain type of culture in this police department that you may be seeing play out in the case -- in the killing of Michael Brown?
SCHOTTEL: Obviously, I do not have the facts and I'm not going to make a judgment on what, you know, happened in the Michael Brown case but I can, you know, testify to what I uncovered in Mr. Davis's case. The reporting, you know, letting an officer complete their own use of force report and then not have that use of force report go into the officer's own personnel file just creates an atmosphere of, you know, go out on the street, guys, use force however often you want. Do whatever you want. And there will be no repercussions.
And another important factor that I had found out in deposing the chief is that they could not tell me how many complaints or citizen complaints a particular officer had. How --
KEILAR: Do you think -- do you think --
SCHOTTEL: You know --
KEILAR: Do you think, James, maybe if it doesn't speak to this case, do you think -- and we have some of the video of what we've seen going on last night and also in the previous days, do you think the case of your client maybe -- it sort of I guess used to this reaction that you're seeing from people in the community where they certainly feel that they're not being treated fairly, they're not being protected?
SCHOTTEL: I think so. I think the -- you know, I think there was an environment that's been there for a long time. The former chief was there maybe 11 years when these, you know, poor, you know, recording policies were in place and, you know, I think that creates an environment and plus, there has been other -- you know, I've heard from other attorneys stating that there, you know, a lot other issues between the citizens of Ferguson and the Ferguson Police Department.
Now the new chief, Chief Jackson, came in in 2010 and says he's made changes. Well, I would -- I would really hope that the FBI and when this he do their investigation into Michael Brown's case to really look into see if those changes that he stated in his deposition testimony to make sure those changes were actually effected and executed because you can say you're going to make all the changes that you want but you really have to execute those and when it's been such a --
SCHOTTEL: Such an environment, it's really a difficult thing to change a bad environment inside a department like that.
KEILAR: James Schottel, thanks so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
And coming up, we are getting details from the private autopsy that Michael Brown's family ordered. What does it tell us? I'll talk live with the family's lawyer.
KEILAR: We're following the breaking news in Ferguson, Missouri, but first we have important other breaking news. The United States is bombing more targets in Iraq launching 15 airstrikes today that took out terrorists from ISIS. The strikes helped Kurdish forces retake the country's largest dam.
Here's our Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr with more.
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): More than a dozen U.S. airstrikes hit ISIS positions around Mosul dam to dislodge up to 400 militants from their hold. Kurdish Peshmerga fighters say they are back in control for now of Iraq's largest dam. The administration says the air attacks are not mission creep beyond the original goal of protecting U.S. interests.
OBAMA: The Mosul dam fell under terrorist control earlier this month and is directly tied to our objective of protecting Americans in Iraq. If that dam was breached it could have proven catastrophic.
STARR: Mosul dam was closely watched by U.S. reconnaissance flights for weeks. Intelligence revealed ISIS was not doing critical maintenance on the dam and there were indications they might also blow it up. Engineers calculate a breach would unleash a wave of water tens of feet tall that would rage through Mosul and flood Iraq all the way to Baghdad. A humanitarian disaster and a threat to U.S. personnel.
A flashy new ISIS video full of violence and displays of weapons. No one knows how far ISIS may go next. Some experts say the U.S. must face reality in Iraq. The mission is growing.
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON (RET.), FORMER AIR FORCE INTELLIGENCE OFFICER: Airstrikes alone will not be sufficient to do the job. At its core the mission is to get rid of ISIS. The United States cannot have a Middle East in which ISIS exists as an entity that controls large areas of territory.
STARR: The ranking Democrat on the House Foreign Affairs Committee also urging more White House action on "FOX News Sunday."
REP. ELIOT ENGEL (D), NEW YORK: Ultimately we may have some boots on the ground there. Not something that I want but you know what? We have bad choices and the worst choice is to do nothing.
STARR: Pentagon officials say they remain ready to strike additional ISIS targets including dams and other facilities -- Brianna.
KEILAR: Barbara Starr, thank you. Rick Perry is slamming his indictment as a politically motivated
farce. The Texas governor is accused of coercing a public servant and abusing his veto power. Last year he threatened to pull funding for a program run by a Democratic district attorney charged with the DUI unless she resign. When she refused he vetoed the funding. Perry will stay on as governor while under indictment.
And coming up at the top of the hour we have a live interview with the lawyer from Michael Brown's family, Benjamin Crump.