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At This Hour

History of Racial Distrust in Ferguson; Calls for St. Louis Prosecutor to Recuse Himself; Interview with Sybrina Fulton; Obama Calls for Calm in Ferguson

Aired August 19, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CN NANCHOR: Jarvis, you know, I think all of us are frustrated, and I think we're looking for solutions and we're looking to answers, both in the micro and macro level. I know also that police departments around the country have for some time been working to increase recruitment of brown and black officers, male and female.

What is the solution? How do we build that trust? I heard from some people sending in the National Guard is not going to help in a situation like Ferguson. It's not going to help build trust again in any kind of law enforcement.

JARVIS DEBERRY, EDITORIALIST &COLUMNIST, NOLA.COM: Well, I don't think it is as simple as just hiring more black police officers. I don't think it's even as simple as having a black police chief, because some of the biggest atrocities here in New Orleans happened when we had black people in charge and some of them were carried out by black officers themselves. I think we need a radical reordering of our thinking here in this country and seeing young black people as something other than criminals. You don't know that -- I don't know that we can have that with the drug war still going on. I think we have to question this drug war.

PEREIRA: Maybe we can pick up this conversation again. I really enjoyed this. I think there's a lot of things we can still have room to discuss.

Jarvis, Joe, thank you so much, from New Orleans and Los Angeles.

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Thank you for joining me today.

@THISHOUR, perhaps no one knows better than Sybrina Fulton, Trayvon Martin's mother, about what the Michael Brown family is going through. I'm going to bring you the latest on what she has to say about the shooting and the aftermath.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: We do have some breaking news into the investigation of the shooting death of teenager Michael Brown in Missouri.

I want to bring in our justice reporter, Evan Perez.

Let's go to the breaking news that we just received about the investigation. What do we know?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, we know that the federal autopsy has now been completed by the federal examiner down in Missouri, and we know that they are not going to release those results just yet. They are still doing the civil rights investigation. As you know, the FBI and prosecutors in St. Louis, and they want to conclude that process before they release any details of the autopsy. They are not even going to release it to the family members. As you know the family already did their private autopsy and, of course, St. Louis County did theirs just after the shooting -- Michaela?

PEREIRA: Another piece of news that we're watching just in fact last hour with my colleague, Carol Costello, we heard a state Senator adding her voice to the din. A din that may be growing, some people locally there in Ferguson are feeling that the prosecuting attorney from St. Louis County, Robert McCulloch, can't be impartial in this case. Why don't you give us the back story and explain this to us?

PEREZ: He's been the prosecutor -- top local prosecutor in St. Louis County and there's been some criticism of him as to whether or not he can be impartial in this case. He drew some of that criticism in part because he criticized the governor for bringing in the state police, the state troopers, to handle security of the situation there as the unrest began in Ferguson and removed the St. Louis county police from being the lead in charge of the security. So he made that criticism and some people feel that maybe that adds into some question into his impartiality on this, and also, you know, he has some history in this. He was 12 years old when his father was killed. He was a local cop, and he was -- his father was killed when he was trying to carry out an arrest, so people feel that perhaps he will side with the police. I should add that the federal government, the authorities down there, do not believe that he's going to have any problems with this. They feel that the investigation is being done properly.

PEREIRA: And I should add that the office of Mr. McCulloch says he's been elected prosecutor in St. Louis since '91, he's been re-elected over the years and they continue to have faith in him and he will continue to do his duties. Thanks for the update, Evan, and for the breaking news.

We're going to take a short break @THISHOUR. I'll be back in a flash.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Amid all that's happening in Ferguson, the parents of center lane teenager Michael Brown they are receiving support from a woman who knows their pain all too well, Sybrina Fulton's son was shot in Florida in 2012. You know that case. You'll see this right here as one of several marches that was held across the nation. Like Michael Brown, Trayvon Martin was unarmed. In an open letter that was published in "Time" magazine, she reaches to Michael Brown's mother: "Honor your son and his life. Not the circumstances of his alleged transgressions. I have always said that Trayvon was not perfect. But no one will ever convince me that my son deserved to be stalked and murdered. No one can convince you that Michael deserved to be executed." Earlier today, I spoke with Sybrina Fulton.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: Thank you so much for joining me this morning.

I think the parallels are many between the case we're seeing now and the story of your son's death. Teenagers, unarmed, young black men, both becoming the symbols of a larger national movement. It seems it would be a natural thing to pick up a pen and write to them, but you decided to do as an open letter. Why do that?

SYBRINA FULTON, MOTHER OF TRAYVON MARTIN: One of the things is because a lot of the words that I had to say to the family, I don't think I would have been able to say to them personally to them. The family and our foundation supports their family and I thought it would be best in order for me to write an open letter.

PEREIRA: If they reached out to you, would you meet with them?

FULTON: Absolutely, absolutely. We have been in contact with the parents, Tracy and I have been in contact with the parents.

PEREIRA: I'm so glad that's happened because I think there is power in your voice joining their process of grieving and all that they are going through and I actually want to talk about that because the grieving process for the family is just beginning. They haven't buried their son yet. They haven't laid him to rest. The investigation continues. The legal process is also just beginning. In your case, George Zimmermann walked free. In Michael Brown's case, this officer involved is on paid administrative leave. That has to complicate the grieving process, no?

FULTON: Absolutely, but I think before we even think about the investigation, I think the first things first, and I think that they need to have a proper and decent home-going service for their son. I think we're getting off track for a lot of things, but he needs to be buried and he needs to be laid to rest and that's going to be a very difficult moment in their life, and I don't want them to take that lightly. It's going to be very hurtful. It's going to be very sorrowful. It's going to be very disappointing to know that they are burying their 18-year-old son and he had a full life ahead of him.

PEREIRA: Where did you find your support during that particular difficulty, Sybrina?

FULTON: As I said in my letter, I found my support through my faith, my family, and my friends, and I keep holding on to them because I know that they have been there. They are still there. That's all I have. All I have is my faith.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: All she has is her faith.

Sybrina Fulton has much more to say. Coming up, you'll hear her message to the community of Ferguson. You'll hear the rest of my conversation with the mother of Trayvon Martin ahead @THISHOUR.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Before Michael Brown, there was Trayvon Martin. There have been others to be frank. Like Brown, Martin was an unarmed African- American teen walking home from school or walking home simply when they were killed. His shooter's subsequent acquittal dominated the headlines. Trayvon's mother has written an open letter to Michael Brown's mother addressing their shared grief, mother to mother.

I have an extensive conversation with Sybrina Fulton about that. Here's what she had to say. Our conversation continues.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: You also say in the letter, you write this really interesting phrase. I would like for you to explain more about what you mean. You say, quote, "If they refuse to hear us, we will make them feel us."

FULTON: One of the things that I also said right below that is that people are going to take that out of content and I know that they will, because they think it's something negative when it's not. The reason why I think that they should -- that they don't quite understand what's going on is because it's not happening to them. But I think once we start voting more and we start electing some of the officials that's in the capacity to try to help us out with our issues, we'll be in a lot better position. I think once we start educating ourselves and once we start getting good jobs and we shopping at the places that don't support us, they will really feel us and that's what I meant by that.

PEREIRA: You know, it's interesting, you had to live out this very real horror in your life on a national and international scale. We're seeing this again for the family of Michael Brown and part of that, there is this charge of character assassination, Michael Brown's family saying police were engaging in that. How do you deal with that as a mother and especially in light of the fact that you are defending your son who no longer has a voice?

FULTON: Well, I think it's necessary because -- because my son doesn't have a voice, I have to be the voice for him, and I refuse to listen to all the negative things that people have said about him, and that they will say. They even take shots at me, and say that I'm not a good parent, but I did the best I could, and I still think he would have been followed, he would have been chased. And he would have been murdered. It wasn't about Trayvon. It was about the person who pulled the trigger. Trayvon was 17 years old. Trayvon had a 17-year- old mind. And so that's what I tell people all the time. I'm not going to justify his actions for being on the phone, for walking home, for even having on a hoodie. I'm not going to justify that within a 17-year-old child.

PEREIRA: Powerful words, Sybrina. We've all been watching, I think, very disheartened by the scenes playing out on the streets overnight in Ferguson. It's hard to see the community struggling with anger and grief and then seemingly under siege. What do you think it's going to take to restore calm to that community?

FULTON: I think by seeing all the -- all the militant, all the trucks and the guns and all of that, I don't think that's doing any good for that community, because it frightens people. And they have a right to protest if they're doing it in a peaceful manner. I think that our leaders need to get together. They need to set up something so it's more organized. And they need to meet with law enforcement so law enforcement knows what's going on. And they have a specific location. They shouldn't have them just walking up and down the street. They want to have them in an environment where they feel comfortable and they don't feel threatened by having guns and tear gas and things like that being thrown at them. I think it needs to be organized, whether it's the National Action Network, the NAACP or the Urban League, or just community leaders and pastors in that area. But they definitely need to organize and let the people know their plan of action.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PEREIRA: That mother still carries her grief. She spoke to me after and said the hardest thing they have to do is bury their son, Michael Brown's parents. Away from the noise, the tear gas, the protests, they still have to plan a funeral.

A closing thought from Fulton's open letter to the Browns, quoting here, "I wish that all of the pain I've endured could possibly ease some of yours but it won't. All I can do for you is what has been done for me. Pray for you. And share my continuing journey as you begin yours."

Ahead @THISHOUR, President Obama calls for calm in Ferguson. Yet, he's not visiting the troubled town. Is that the right move? Let us know what you think. Tweet me @THISHOUR. We'll talk about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To a community in Ferguson that is rightly hurting and looking for answers, let me call, once again, for us to seek some understanding rather than simply holler at each other. Let's seek to heal rather than to wound each other.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: President Obama there calling for calmer heads to prevail in the wake of the shooting of unarmed teenager Michael Brown. The president at this point has no plans to visit Ferguson but has not ruled it out. A senior White House official said it would tax law enforcement resources needed for his protection instead of devoting them to the ongoing civil unrest.

Joining us to discuss this and so many thing, our political commentator, Sally Kohn -- she's right here beside me -- columnist and CNN commentator, L.Z. Granderson.

Good to have you both.

L.Z., I want to start with you.

What of that, if the president goes to visit -- we all complain about when the president swoops into California or comes into New York and causes all that traffic turnaround. We know that it does take a significant law enforcement presence to support that visit. Is that a wise move? Or are the optics more important?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: No, that is a smart move. I'm glad he's not going to be there, especially right now, because they do need to have every single officer, every one's attention needs to be focused on getting rid of the agitators during the protests and making sure the police don't overstep their authority. This is a man who graduated from Harvard Law School and could have gone to any firm and become a rich person. He came back to the poor areas to work with poor people. So anyone who doubts his heart is in that community just don't understand who this person is.

PEREIRA: Sally, the president has also been getting a fair amount of criticism about, you know -- funny how presidents get that -- about how he's handled this, as compared to the Trayvon Martin shooting and death. He got very emotional and spoke quite personally about that incident. He has been more reticent to delve into the topic. He's sending Attorney General Eric Holder down there. What do you make of it?

SALLY KOHN, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's a broader context here, which is obviously uniquely challenging for this president. Which is any time he speaks, as a black man, to black America, to the concerns, to the reality, to the life experience of black America, he's criticized by voices that think that, if you're doing that, you're being divisive, you're not --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: You get a lot of heat, right, yeah.

KOHN: There's this assumption that he should only speak to or for or and behalf of or address or frame things for white America. This is an incredible tragedy. It keeps repeating itself. We need leaders, including the president, who can say, look the experience of this boy, the experience of these people in this community who are angry, is not an isolated incident. He can give voice to that. I think he's doing that. He should feel emboldened to do it.

PEREIRA: It's short sighted for people to think this is an African- American issue. This is an American issue.

L.Z. and Sally, you both have been busy writing op-eds.

And, L.Z., we talked a lot about the op-ed you wrote. You're talking about being sick of Americans not being upset when they hear of a black teen dying. There is a disconnect here. Where do you think it is? GRANDERSON: Well, there is a general devaluing of black and brown

life. And when I wrote that piece, I know a number of people thought I was talking about specifically white people not caring. And I was not. I'm glad I'm here to clear that up. I was talking about America not caring. This past weekend, we had over 30 people shot, seven of them died, in the neighborhoods in Chicago. Many of them black and brown. None of that was covered, including a 16-year-old who had straight "A"s. Was not covered. We generally in this country just do not value black and brown life in the same way. That goes for the majority of the media that covers white America but also black America as well. That's why I wrote that piece. I'm tired of us, black people, white people, brown people, not caring about unarmed black people dying in our streets.

PEREIRA: And I'm really glad you brought that up because of Ferguson, Chicago is sort of taking a back seat in the headlines. Chicago's a very concerning thing. And we need to keep watching. We need to keep addressing what's going on there.

Sally, you wrote an op-ed as well. I know you have strong feelings about all of this. I want to jump to a poll we've seen. This is the thing I think that gets to me. A new poll from Pew Research, 80 percent of African-Americans say the shooting in Ferguson raises important issues. While only 37 percent of whites feel this way. This is just --

(CROSSTALK)

KOHN: We have a really different experience in this country.

PEREIRA: We do.

KOHN: And we have a different reaction. When white people commit crime, we say, they committed a crime. And when black people commit a crime, we call them criminals. We see that happening tomorrow.

PEREIRA: Will you come back tomorrow?

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: L.Z., is it a date?

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: I hate that we have to have this conversation but I'm glad we can do it and can do it reasonably.

Thank you so much.

That's it for @THISHOUR.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts right now.