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At This Hour

American Journalist Beheaded by ISIS; Ferguson Calm -- Until Bottles Flew; Should Prosecuting Attorney Recuse Himself?

Aired August 20, 2014 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: @THIS HOUR, we're following two major stories, the latest on the tension in Ferguson, Missouri, and the horrific killing, the beheading, of an American journalist.

I'm Michaela Pereira. John Berman is off.

We're going to first look at Ferguson this morning. Michael Brown's mother has said that justice will bring peace. @THIS HOUR, 11 days after a police officer shot and kill her 18-year-old son, justice might be getting closer as the focus goes from the anger on the street to the work of the court.

Attorney General Eric Holder is set to arrive there in Ferguson today to check on the status of the federal investigation and also to meet with community leaders.

There's also a parallel state investigation under way, looking into whether Brown's death could have been a criminal act. The grand jury inquiry could begin as soon as today. Officials are getting witnesses ready to testify.

Meanwhile protesters, they repeat their call @THIS HOUR for the St. Louis prosecuting attorney to step aside. They insist his police ties run far too deep and they fear he could be biased in this case.

Meantime, the overnight protests in Ferguson were calmer than on previous nights. There were some scuffles, nearly 50 arrests.

Now to our other big story, a horrifying scene, ISIS militants behead a U.S. journalist and warn that another may soon die. The terrorists released a gruesome video that appears to show the beheading of kidnapped American journalist James Foley.

We're only showing you these still images. We're not going to run the video.

ISIS says the killing is payback for U.S. air strikes on ISIS fighters in Iraq. Foley was abducted some two years ago while he was reporting from northern Syria. He was one of dozens of journalists kidnapped and missing still in Syria.

The other captured American whose life is now on the line is believed to be freelance journalist Steven Sotloff. He appeared at the end of that video that showed Foley's death. Sotloff was kidnapped at the Syria Iraq border last summer.

Joining me now to discuss all of this from London, Atika Shubert. I think has rattled so many people, and it brings back echoes of Daniel Pearl's killing in 2002.

In this video, Atika, the ISIS militant speaks with a British accent. I'm curious, since you are there in London, what are you hearing from British authorities?

ATIKA SHUBERT, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well it's come as a huge shock here to hear that British accent on that video and government officials are obviously very concerned. They are analyzing the video and audio on that trying to identify who this man is.

Take a list to what Britain's foreign secretary had to say today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PHILLIP HAMMOND, U.K. FOREIGN SECRETARY: We're very concerned about the apparent fact that the murder in question is British, and we're urgently investigating agencies on both sides of the Atlantic, first of all to authenticate the video to make sure it is genuine -- sadly, it appears to be -- and then to see if we can identify the individual in question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SHUBERT: Now, we know it's a huge issue here, not only here but across Europe, thousands of young Muslims have gone to go fight in Syria and Iraq, to join the ranks of groups like ISIS.

And we know an estimated 400 have come from Britain here alone and about 50 percent of them are estimated to come within the London area, so this is a big concern for Britain, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Yeah. Clearly, it is, Atika. Are you sensing -- so he says -- the British foreign minister saying that they are looking into it trying to investigate, but is there any sense of an international coalition or a plan to fight or to battle against the surge of ISIS?

SHUBERT: I think it's very clear that this is a global concern at this point, and the U.K. is very active in cooperating with the United States and other governments in the region as well to try and combat ISIS, but the question is how?

And now that we've seen this particularly brutal video come out, is that going to change the equation? Is that going to mean stronger action?

This is what we're waiting to see, and in fact, the prime minister is chairing meetings on Syria and Iraq here at Downing Street at the prime minister's office today. We'll see if anything comes out of that.

PEREIRA: Atika, thank you so much for bringing that to us. We'll keep an eye on it. Obviously we'll have more discussions about it.

But right now the chilling video of James Foley's execution, as I mentioned, brings back horrific memories of the beheading of "Wall Street Journal" reporter Daniel Pearl by al Qaeda militants in Pakistan some 12 years ago.

Pearl's mother, Ruth, has released a statement. She says, quote, "Our hearts go out to the family of journalist James Foley. We know the horror they are going through."

Just so much brutality, so what can be done, and is the rest of the world willing to support efforts to stop further ISIS atrocities?

I want to turn to Michael Balboni. He's former New York state homeland security director and senior fellow, Homeland Security Policy.

Michael, I hate that we even have to have this discussion. It's been 12 years since we saw Daniel Pearl assassinated, essentially. Let's talk about this here. The U.N. security council recently voted to sanction ISIS. Sanctions are one thing. Where's the real action against ISIS?

MICHAEL BALBONI, SENIOR FELLOW, HOMELAND SECURITY POLICY: Well, that's really the point that we have to take a look at right now. If you make the mistake of thinking that this is like Daniel Pearl's assassination, that it's going to be a one-off and maybe this is just a way to kind of step back and say, see, U.S., we can reach out to your assets, we make a mistake.

And the reason is because this is not the al Qaeda that we used to know. This is ISIS. They are a very sophisticated recruiting agency, when you take a look at their publications, their messaging, very, very sophisticated.

According to MSA intelligence in New York City, they are on the Web. They are using YouTube. They are on the streets of London openly recruiting people to get -- to be a part of ISIS, which means that this is not just an isolated group that we tend to think. We tend to wall them off.

This is a very sophisticated group, and if they are on streets of London, recruiting people, and what this video the British accent, then what's the next step for them launching attacks in London and against the West?

PEREIRA: Let's speak about that a little bit further, because I think it bears repeating. The whole thing was horrifying, shocking, gruesome. I can't even begin to use the words that adequately describe the brutality of this.

But the fact that the executioner speaks with a British accent, very pointed as well. They are making a point by doing that.

BALBONI: Absolutely. They really are saying this is not just a Middle Eastern conflict, world. We're going to be using somebody that has a British accent. We're going to be going live with this so that we can shock the world. We're going to really put it right in your face.

But again this is just part of a larger campaign that many Americans never see, that this is a part of what they are trying to do to get people to come into the ISIS movement. It's much bigger than just the region.

PEREIRA: So what does that do then? Because, you know, we were just getting the reaction from Atika there in London about the international response, or at least the British response, given the fact that there was somebody with a British accent speaking on the tape.

But what about a coalition of the willing to work together, because obviously this is not just directed at the U.S.

BALBONI: Yeah. Ironically, many of the same challenges and difficulties associated with originally attacking or responding to al Qaeda's attacks are present here.

It's a war-weary world, that we don't want to necessarily engage more than we have to. And yet what this group is saying is that we're going to be sophisticated, we're going to have weapons that we haven't had before from an asymmetric threat, which is not a nation-state that's attacking, and we're going -- the face of this is going to be beheadings of innocent, unarmed civilians.

This is really what's going on. The brutality, the world really needs to sit up and take notice of not only what they do, but the methods in which they do it.

PEREIRA: You spoke of war weariness among the world. We know there's certainly some weariness here in the United States and the cost to human lives has been very high.

We know the president has been reluctant to put any boots on the ground, as we keep using that term, but we know air strikes have been used and implemented in Iraq.

What, if any -- what kind of effect if any will this brutal killing and the video and this sort of shot across our bow have on our U.S. policy in Iraq?

BALBONI: The U.S. security agencies already have ISIS on their radar screens. This is really an effort now to get as much intelligence as possible to find out -- with every type of terrorist agency, you have to find out where they get their arms, how they recruit people, how do you shut off all those things? How do you isolate them? How do you decapitate their leadership?

Those are the things that work so effectively against al Qaeda. These are the same type of methods that needs to be deployed against ISIS. The question is will it only have to be the United States and Britain that do this, or will the rest of the world recognize this is a threat to them as well?

PEREIRA: At the very least, James Foley's family deserves a measure of justice and some comfort in a horrible time. Our thoughts and best wishes to all of them.

Michael Balboni, thanks for joining me. A tough subject to have to delve into, but we need to. Can't keep turning a blind eye.

We're going to take a short break here. Ahead @THIS HOUR, we're going to go back to Ferguson. It was a calm night overnight in Ferguson until someone threw a bottle of water and then, well, all heck broke loose again.

We're going to talk with Philadelphia's police commissioner. He's been advising Ferguson officials on what to do. We'll see what he thinks and what he thinks the best call to action is.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CAPTAIN RON JOHNSON, MISSOURI STATE HIGHWAY PATROL: I believe there was a turning point made, and I believe that turning point was made by the clergy, the activists, the volunteers, and the men and women of law enforcement who partnered together to make a difference, but also those citizens who took heed to what we talked about last night -- not allowing the criminals to mask themselves in a peaceful protest.

They protested early, and they went home early and allowed us a better visual look of those criminal and agitators.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: The streets in Ferguson were calm last night, well, until bottles flew. As you heard Captain Johnson say, most protesters heeded police calls to turn out early and then leave early.

And for the most part those protests were subdued, until an agitator threw a water bottle at police, and reportedly, urine -- in response, riot police, K-9 dogs, and pepper spray.

Joining me now, Philadelphia Police Commissioner Charles Ramsey, he is the head of the Major Cities Chiefs Association. He's also been advising officials in Ferguson, Missouri.

Commissioner, thanks so much for joining me today.

POLICE COMMISSIONER CHARLES RAMSEY, PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA: Thank you.

PEREIRA: All right, so you've been -- you've been talking to the officials there on the ground in Ferguson. You've been watching the scene. You've been giving them some advice.

What has your advice been, and have the officials there heeded your words?

RAMSEY: Well, actually, I won go so far as to say I've been advising. I did have a conversation last Friday, that was arranged through the cops office, Director Ron Davis, who is the head of that particular part of the Department of Justice. We offered technical assistance. I've not had any conversations since then, but I have been paying attention to what's going on.

PEREIRA: And I imagine chiefs from various cities across the nation are watching. If you had a message for them today, what would it be?

RAMSEY: Well, continue to try to de-escalate the situation. I think that's very important. These things are very difficult to control and it's day-to-day, sometimes moment to moment. But any time you have a clash or a confrontation, it's just as important to try to de-escalate the situation as quickly as possible.

PEREIRA: Let's talk about that de-escalation, because I think there's a disconnect. And I want you to work on me in helping people understand where that disconnect could be. The police have been called in, the national guard has been called in. People are angry on the streets of Ferguson. They are demanding justice. They want their first amendment rights to be maintained. They want to be heard. How do we allow the safety of the community to be upheld, which is the job of the police, but also allow those protesters to have their voices heard without the scenes that we saw earlier in the week play out?

RAMSEY: Well, police have a responsibility to protect the constitutional rights of people, certainly the first amendment gives them the right to assemble and have a peaceful protest. We've been seeing a mixture of things in Ferguson. Peaceful demonstrations, which the vast majority of people are engaging in, but then you also have riotous behavior, looting and burning, things of that nature. That is not a constitutionally protected activity and the police have to make that distinction between the two groups and try their best to separate out those people that are causing harm in the community versus those people who were there to legitimately protest.

PEREIRA: There have been some voices that have said the mere presence of some of the militarized, you know, looking police presence, the equipment they have, the tear gas, the canisters, the weapons raised, pointed at people, that that felt excessive to them when they were merely there protesting. What is your response to that?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean those are issues that a law enforcement agencies have to get a handle on. These things are very difficult to control. I'm not on the ground there. I don't know who is making the tactical decisions and what the rationale behind it really is. But I understand that, certainly, the images are not images that you really want to see but you also have to take into consideration some of the activities that are taking place, with the burning, with the looting, shots fired, people being shot, things of that nature. That really causes officers to have the kind of equipment they need to protect themselves.

PEREIRA: We talk a lot about the community leaders and people on the ground who talked about the lack of representation and leadership from the African-American community, the lack of African-American officers on the force even. There's only three black officers on the force in Ferguson. They have vowed, the leaders there in Ferguson, to try and recruit more African-Americans to join their force. Do you think that would help? You're in Philly, you have what? Forty-four percent African-Americans in your town. You understand that this feels like, to many, that there is a racial disparity here?

RAMSEY: Well, I mean, diversity is very important. Departments across the country, including mine, are struggling in terms of recruiting overall, in terms of numbers. But minorities, women, people of a different sexual orientation, all these things are important that we reflect the community. Now I was chief in Washington, D.C., for nine years. Washington, D.C., has a majority African-American police department, 63 percent. And we still had issues. So diversity by itself doesn't solve the problem.

PEREIRA: What do you think the source of the issue is?

RAMSEY: You have to have good dialog and lines of communication with the community and there has to be trust. And that's an issue in law enforcement. That's not unique to Ferguson. That's across the board. We have to constantly build trust because in many of our more challenge communities, we are not always seen as being there to protect and enhance their quality of life. Sometimes we're seen as part of the problem and we have to work very hard to change that dynamic.

PEREIRA: And I guess as President of the major cities chiefs association, you are kind of tasked with part of that challenge, and we appreciate you taking it on because we know it's a very real issue, as you mentioned, not just in Ferguson, in cities all across the nation.

Commissioner, thank you so much for making time to join me @ THIS HOUR.

RAMSEY: Thank you for having me.

PEREIRA: I hope we can talk again. Ahead @ THIS HOUR, many in Ferguson are demanding that the prosecutor step aside. His father, a police officer, was killed on duty. Some folk believe he's biased. We're going to be live in Ferguson coming up next.

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PEREIRA: I want to delve a little deeper into the developments in Ferguson, Missouri. We've got a team lined up for you in Missouri.

Even Perez and George Howell are both in Missouri. George is going to update us on the situation with protesters right now and Evan is taking a look at the Attorney General's imminent visit and , of course the ongoing investigation. Our legal analyst, Danny Cevallos, is here beside me, and he will weigh in.

I want to start, first with George, where we saw overnight things were mostly calm on the scene, but I understand there's a few more protesters out there today. Set the scene for us.

GEORGE HOWELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right, Michaela. So a lot of things happening right here. We see the imagery of hands up that you have been seeing. There are people with bullhorns sending their message. And also with chalk, of you look here on the ground you can see the writing, it says know justice, know peace. Perhaps you thought it was n-o justice and n-o peace. But no, this is what the message is to know justice, know peace. Also you can see people here, they have basically drawn body outlines here on the ground, these are crime scene images, here's in front of the counties prosecuting attorney's office.

Again, Robert McCulloch, the prosecuting attorney behind the scenes. Keep in mind, we haven't heard a lot about Darren Wilson's side of the story. But what we understand today is that a grand jury will hear the evidence, see evidence in his case to decide what the next step will be in this case.

Also many of the people here are demanding that the prosecutor, that he, Mr. McCulloch, recuse himself from the case. They don't believe he can handle a case like this fairly given two things. Given that his brother, his cousin and his uncle are police officers, his mother a clerk a police department. And also the fact that in 1964, Michaela, his father was shot and killed by an African-American suspect. Many of the people here question whether Mr. McCulloch can handle a case like this fairly.

So again, we're seeing the imagery and hearing the message from people who are supporting the case of Michael Brown. We understand behind the scenes that evidence is being discussed and then examined regarding Darren Wilson's side of the story, which we have not yet heard.

PEREIRA: No, we certainly have not and that is such an important piece to this puzzle. Thanks so much, George. We'll keep you standing by in case something there happens, and if Eric Holder arrives.

I want to turn now to Evan Perez for a second to talk about the Justice Department working with the grand jury and local investigators on the scene. And again we're hearing that the grand jury could hear testimony today, Evan.

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: That's right, Michaela. That's what we're hearing. The Attorney General is arriving here in probably the next 30 minutes in Ferguson. He will start off by meeting with some community leaders. We know that he's going to meet -- we expect he's going to meet with the Brown family, the parents of Michael Brown, during one of these meetings, during the day today. And then after that, he's going to meet with the FBI investigators and the prosecutors that are doing the civil rights investigation. And here, what he's trying to do is trying to make sure that he reassures the public and the family this is going to be a fair investigation, at the same time he's trying to calm some of the tensions here, Michaela.

PEREIRA: Evan, it is interesting, because you wrote an interesting article saying Eric Holder used to be a cause for angst in the White House in terms of race issues, yet they are tapping him and sending him to Ferguson in hopes he can ease tensions there. What exactly changed in the equation? PEREZ: That's right. When Eric Holder took office, one of the first

things he did is was make this address at the Justice Department in which he called out the country for being a nation of cowards and addressing issues of race. This is something that really didn't fit with the tone of the White House. They weren't very happy with it, and he stayed away from the issue for a while, but at the same time he was working behind the scenes to reinvigorate some of these civil rights investigations. They have done a lot of these police investigations around the country, and at the same time he's been working on some of these issues like disparities of sentencing and also trying to get some of the law changes on sentencing.

So these are issues that he's been working on and that's why the White House sent him here to try to help bring down some of the tensions here, Michaela. Because I think he can probably speak in a way that frankly a lot of people other people can't.

PEREIRA: He also has been critical of some of the police response there in Ferguson. Evan, I'm going to ask you to stand by and I'm going to turn to Danny who is here with me in the studio. I'm curious what your thoughts are on the A.G. of the United States, at the behest of the President, arriving in Ferguson today, unprecedented. What are you anticipating and could it help investigators or could it further complicate things?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Let's start with could it help. The federal government has massive resources and if those are being used to assist in an investigation, or being used to help address the civil unrest, that might be a good thing.

On the other hand, you might look at this arrival as somewhat cosmetic, constitutionally local prosecutors and law enforcement is designed to handle cases like this on their own and we've had centuries of constitutional law addressing this issue, that the federal government isn't always just supposed to swoop in and take over an investigation simply because people just aren't satisfied with the direction it's going. You don't get a second choice always when it comes to prosecution.

So I have to imagine, and I'm just speculating, that the local authorities may not view it -- they may take a more jaundiced view of the arrival of the federal government, because like I said federalism dictates that our country is designed to allow local law enforcement to handle local matters. Now to the extent there is a civil rights investigation, that is a separate thing, but I caution everybody that you can have an excessive force claim --

PEREIRA: And may not necessarily be a violation of civil rights.

CEVALLOS: Without a racially motivated incident.

PEREIRA: Those are things investigators on the ground are looking at. We know there's several investigations going on. I am going to ask you guys to hold on, I need to take a quick break. Danny, Evan, stay with me. We're going to have to take a closer look at why critics are obviously calling for the ousting, if he could recuse himself, the St. Louis County prosecuting attorney, calling for him to recuse himself from the case. I want to get into the with you Danny. You have got some answers I am sure. I will put them to you in a sec.

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