Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Officer Supports Hit Ferguson Streets; 2 Ebola Patient Released from Atlanta Hospital; Holder Says He Understands Police Mistrust in Ferguson; African-American Gov. Deval Patrick Says He's "Sick of It"

Aired August 21, 2014 - 14:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: We are just past the bottom of the hour. You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

A sign of some normalcy. Governor Jay Nixon ordered the National Guard to pull out of the city. There was far less violence overnight after too many days of rioting and vandalism following the killing of a black teenager by a white police officer.

But there was one clash last night that's drawing attention to the other side of the story. Look at this with me. People who support Officer Darren Wilson are starting to let their voices be heard. Take, for instance, the woman right here showing support for Officer Wilson, alongside Michael Brown protesters. I want you to watch how that went down.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(CHANTING)

(CHANTING)

(SHOUTING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So police eventually broke up an argument between that woman and the Michael Brown supporters.

But with many conflicts, just like that one happening in Ferguson, often comes the question, what's the lesson here.

And my next guest says one of them is parents must teach young African-American men how to survive police encounters. In fact, you're looking at a diagram he has provided. It's starting some controversy. It's called "10 Rules of Survival if Stopped by Police."

David Miller, let me bring you in, joining me from Baltimore.

You founded the Dare to be King Project. This is all part of a curriculum you call Life and Survival Skills geared towards minority youth.

David, nice to have you on.

DAVID MILLER, FOUNDER, DARE TO BE KING PROJECT: How are you doing? Good to be here.

BALDWIN: I'm doing well. I'm doing well.

Let me just begin with what was it about what happened in Ferguson, you know, 11, 12 days ago now that compelled you to tweet out these rules? Walk me through them.

MILLER: I think the issue is much larger than Ferguson. I think we're dealing with a national crisis, particularly when we begin to look at the issues that young people have in communities when they're confronted by a police and other law enforcement entities. And so we decided to put this poster together. We have actually been doing these kinds of workshops for the last five to ten years, really beginning to prepare our African-American parents and people with critical life steps. Because we know people will come in direct contact with law enforcement and our goal is to make sure young people can live through a police stop.

BALDWIN: Give me one example, a little something from the diagram.

MILLER: So, for example, making sure young people always have their hands in plain sight. If you are walking down the street from debate practice or basketball practice, and you're confronted by the police, we want to make sure that young men are always in a situation where their hands shouldn't be in their pockets. Their hands shouldn't be in their coats. Make sure law enforcement can see their hands. We also realize a lot of times police are overtaxed, frustrated, there is a great deal of anxiety in terms of patrolling many of these neighborhoods. So we feel by making sure that police officers can see the hands of young people reduces the likelihood these police officers will be in fear for their safety.

BALDWIN: But isn't there an inference just in the sheer nature of this diagram? I mean, are you insinuating that police are not going to treat these young men with respect, that there is always an element of danger coming at them?

MILLER: One of the things that I think has to be said is that there are many great officers who put on uniforms, both men and women, every single day in America. But we also know that there are many negative police officers, police officers who should no longer be on the force, police officers who have mental health challenges. Police officers who were burned out, who were patrolling neighborhoods. And when we look at the history of policing in America, we see oftentimes that young black males have a very adversary relationship with law enforcement. And a lot of that is because of many of the ongoing policing tactics, whether it's Stop and Frisk, whether it's stopping young men in the community, asking them a whole bunch of questions, even when these young men are not involved in any kind of criminal activity.

BALDWIN: I think it's important, though, just to hear a law enforcement voice. Quickly, guys, can we play the sound bite?

I talked to someone who is a veteran on the force in Los Angeles for a number of years. This was his perspective.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SUNNI DUTTA, LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT: If you get into the safety zone, if you challenge the officer, you get too close, and you walk towards the officer aggressively, and the officer feels threatened, that is the time. Or it happens that people actually engage officers in a fight, so that is the time a use of force occurs. An officer cannot just approach a community member and use force. That is against law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Just wanted to show that perspective quickly.

David Miller, thank you for your diagram. Hopefully, this will help both sides of the equation here. Appreciate you very much, joining me from Baltimore today.

Just three weeks ago, their families were thinking about funeral arrangements, and now these two American Ebola patients are out of the hospital. How did they bounce back so quickly? How are doctors so sure they're no longer contagious? We'll talk to our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, weighing in, coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: Two Americans were mere days away from dying after becoming infected by the Ebola virus and now they are disease-free. This is wonderful news here. This is just an absolutely remarkable scene that we auto all witnessed earlier this afternoon Atlanta University's Emory Hospital. Dr. Brantly here in the beard was almost a month ago thought to die. He walked out in front of the media and staff there at Emory, all the while holding his wife's hand. Dr. Brantly was discharged from the hospital today, but not before saying thank you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. KENT BRANTLY, EBOLA PATIENT: Today is a miraculous day. I'm thrilled to be alive, to be well and to be reunited with my family.

Through the care of the Samaritan's Purse and SIM Missionary team in Liberia, the use of an experimental drug and the expertise and resources of the health care team at Emory University Hospital, God saved my life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: And that second U.S. Ebola patient seen here, Nancy Writebol, also out of Emory hospital. She was discharged privately on Tuesday. She is with her husband recovering at an undisclosed location.

Let me go to our chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, covering this for months and months and months.

And to think, you know, hearing from folks who have known Dr. Brantly and saying they were planning funeral arrangements, to flash forward three weeks at Emory Hospital and he is walking out of there, it's stunning.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It really is. And I mean, that juxtaposition, Brooke, you know, that's real. Before -- the day before he flew, Medevaced out of Liberia, they thought he was going to die. His health care team thought he was going to die. He had had a conversation with his wife, Amber, sharing those concerns. He got this experimental therapy. We know that by the next morning he was able to stand up and shower on his own and get on that plane. So -- he was very, very sick, you know, close to death, sounds like. And now you see him the way he is. And point out as well, Brooke, and I'm sure you saw this. But he's holding hands with his wife, amber, as he comes in. He hugs every member of the 26-member health care team that cared for him. Besides what he said, the optics of that is very important. This is a guy who was in isolation up until the day before. And now they're basically saying, look, if he can hug us, if he can hold his wife, he is not a risk to the public health that's been a concern, but the optics of this just as important as the words.

BALDWIN: So that was my question. I mean, if he's hugging these -- you know, good folks from Emory, does that mean there is no chance that he can pass on Ebola to anyone else? Is he immune from getting it again if he wants to go back and continue his work?

GUPTA: Yeah. You know -- so two interesting questions. First of all, I think that the protocol, if you will, on how they handle this, they obviously make sure the patient is doing well. That he's recovered well, that his organs have recovered well from the disease. And then they do two blood tests that are separated by a couple of days. So you do one blood test, Ebola virus, wait a couple days, do another one, a confirmation test. And that's when they basically say, you know, he's all clear and he's healthy and also not contagious.

The immunity question is an interesting one. You know, in some ways, getting sick from a virus is the ultimate vaccination, right? That's what a vaccine is. You give a little bit of the virus to somebody, let their body recognize it and be able to fight it if it ever comes back again. That's essentially what happened to him. Not the way he would have liked. But that's what happened to him. So I think it's safe to say he is immune to that particular strain of Ebola --

BALDWIN: Huh.

GUPTA: -- which is the most common strain. But there are other strains of Ebola, number one. And number two, you know, the virus can change a little bit. It's why we get a different flu shot every year because the flu virus changes a little bit every year. And if it changed a bit, he would still have significant immunity, maybe not full immunity. So I guess the bottom line is he would be pretty well protected. But

I can't imagine it would be any excuse not to still protect yourself, if he were to go back and do that sort of work again. You want to give yourself every benefit that you can.

BALDWIN: Just to see them in those suits going into Emory and three weeks later out. Our best to them. I hope they get some much-needed R&R.

Dr. Gupta, thank you so much, right? Appreciate it.

GUPTA: Yeah.

BALDWIN: Coming up next, Attorney General Eric Holder got quite candid about his own personal experience with police when he was in Ferguson. Says he understands the mistrust there.

Plus I'll speak live with one of my favorites, Ms. Donna Brazile, about Deval Patrick's comments, the first African-American governor of the state of Massachusetts, and saying he is sick of what's going on. Stay here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: The national outcry we have seen speaks to a sense of mistrust and mutual suspicion that can take hold in the relationship between law enforcement and certain communities. I want the people of Ferguson to know that I personally understood that mistrust. I wanted them to --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Let's talk about Eric Holder's comments after visiting the community there in Ferguson, Missouri.

Let me bring in Donna Brazile, our CNN political commentator, joining me from Atlanta today.

Donna, we know the attorney general had mentioned -- he -- yes, he's the attorney general. He also is a black man and he understands what the community is going through. Do you think he pointed out that distrust as a black man?

DONNA BRAZILE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Look, Eric Holder is a father, he's a former judge, a former prosecutor. He's now the nation's chief law enforcement officer. I think Eric went to St. Louis and Ferguson yesterday to reassure the community that he, as a chief law enforcement officer, has taken this case seriously. There is a federal investigation. He has dispatched members of his team, the FBI, the civil rights division, the community relations division. This is quite personal, I believe, in many ways, for someone like Eric Holder, who has been stopped, as he mentioned. He knows what it's like to be stopped, to be searched. And I think being able to relate to some of the frustration and some of the concerns of the people, not just in Ferguson but across this country, there is nothing wrong with it. It at the same time, he is sworn to uphold the law, to make sure that this investigation is thoroughly done. The bar is very, very high. The federal investigation will not replace what's being done at the state and local level. But I think going there to reassure the community that when it comes to their civil liberties, that the U.S. Constitution guarantees to all citizens. And to talk personally to a mom. He's a father. I applaud him. And he also talked to Roy Blunt, Claire McCaskill, the governor. I'm glad he went yesterday.

BALDWIN: So it was obviously in a professional capacity. But as you point out, personal. Personal for the first African-American governor of the state of Massachusetts, for Deval Patrick. He says, "I'm sick of it. I'm sick of unarmed black men being shot by police. I'm sick of the lawlessness on the streets. I think everyone is just tired of when are we going to get through with this kind of thing." And he goes on reading his comments. He also brings up police and how police in this country should be better trained. And that just seems to be a theme, Donna, I keep hearing and keep reading about our nation's local police departments. Do you agree?

BRAZILE: Look, we have a lot of great police officers. We have a lot of them who are doing their job each and every day. I have to say that as a -- you know, I have police officers in my family. I know we have good cops out there. Good police officers.

BALDWIN: Absolutely.

BRAZILE: But, you know what, we have bad apples too. We have bad apples in every profession. And we need to make sure that the police divisions, these police departments, they're under a lot of pressure. We need to make sure they get the kind of community training, the human relations training that all of us need when we're dealing with the public. And, you know, I agree with the governor. I'm sick of all the lawlessness, the violence. As you know, school is open all across the country. And, you know, we have to pray that our kids are going to be safe, that they go to safe schools and safe environments. So this is something that we all should take some measure of reflection and focus on what can we do to start the healing process, as President Obama announced. But also as the governor said, how do we stop this? We've got to stop it. The lawlessness, but also the singling out, the targeting of people simply because of the way they look. That needs to be stopped, as well.

BALDWIN: Bringing up the young people, I keep thinking about the young people in Ferguson, the innocent children. And just to think of the distrust, the seed of distrust being planted because of what they're experiencing in person in their own hometown.

Donna Brazile, thank you so much for coming on.

BRAZILE: Thank you.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, one night after this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: I will (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you. Get back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to kill him?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: That officer is now removed from duty. And next, we talked to a CNN producer who saw this whole thing go down.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My hands are up. My hands are up.

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Hands up.

(CROSSTALK)

I will (EXPLETIVE DELETED) kill you. Get back! Get back!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're going to kill him?

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Get back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your name, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICER: Go (EXPLETIVE DELETED) yourself.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Wow. One of our CNN producers was in that crowd when you heard and saw all of that unfolding there, law enforcement.

Steve Kastenbaum joining me live from Ferguson.

You were a few feet away from that officer. What did you see?

STEVE KASTENBAUM, CNN PRODUCER: And his muzzle from his rifle came right across me as I was walking through. It was a very chaotic moment, Brooke.

What happened was some of the tactical unit police officers started chasing somebody in the crowd who had thrown a bottle at them. And suddenly, the police officers found themselves mixed up with all of the protesters. The lines got blurred. Everybody started retreating. We had a lot of police officers from multiple jurisdictions here working together and some of them aren't used to working side by side. And some of them have never done crowd control before.

This particular police officer comes from a very small police department. Perhaps he maybe shouldn't have been out here in this crowd. But he obviously got spooked.

And I walked right by him as he was saying those horrible things, threatening to shoot people if they came close. And, as you know, he has since been suspended, Brooke. He will not be out there again.

BALDWIN: Glad you mentioned that. He has been suspended, indeed.

Steve Kastenbaum, thank you so much. Thank you for being there for us at CNN.