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Legal View with Ashleigh Banfield

U.S. Tried to Free Foley; Freed Hostage Reflects on Foley; Another Eyewitness Comes Forward in Ferguson

Aired August 21, 2014 - 12:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, CNN ANCHOR: New revelations about a failed rescue mission for American James Foley before he was beheaded by ISIS terrorists. And in just a few moments, a man who spent months in captivity alongside Foley shares the terrifying details about their brutal treatment.

And in Ferguson, Missouri, a new witness tells CNN what he saw the moment unarmed teenager Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer. And it differs from other people's accounts. But by how much? And does that matter? What could it mean for the investigation into the shooting?

Hello, everyone. I'm Ashleigh Banfield.

The executioner claimed that it was payback. But CNN has confirmed that months before James Foley was beheaded by his jihadi captors, supposedly in retaliation for U.S. airstrikes in Iraq, the group called ISIS, or Islamic State, simply wanted to be paid off. Foley's employer, the news site "Global Post," says the jihadis demanded 100 million euros. That's more than 130 million U.S. dollars. It is not clear exactly how the company responded to the demand, but the United States government, for its part, is well known for not paying any ransom demands.

The length to which the U.S. government did go to, however, to try to secure the freedom of Jim Foley and other American captives has now also come to light. And it's nothing short of amazing. And my CNN colleague, Barbara Starr, has that.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): U.S. special forces launched a daring raid earlier this summer inside Syria to try to rescue James Foley and other Americans being held by ISIS. Dozens of the most elite U.S. commandos from units like Delta Force and SEAL Team Six went in by helicopters. Fighter jets and surveillance aircraft provided overhead protection.

The U.S. will not disclose the location, but when the commandos arrived, the hostages were not there. Several Isis operatives were killed. One American slightly injured. The White House says it demonstrates the U.S. will spare no effort to secure the safety of Americans and hold their captors accountable.

Before the operation was revealed, President Obama vowed to be relentless in the face of Foley's killing at the hands of ISIS.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When people harm Americans anywhere, we do what's necessary to see that justice is done.

STARR: British and U.S. intelligence experts now analyzing every frame of the video for clues about the murder, especially the British accent of the killer. Foley's parents calling for peace.

DIANE FOLEY, JAMES FOLEY'S MOTHER: Jim would never want us to hate or be bitter. We are just very proud of Jimmy.

STARR: So far, ISIS has not made attacking the west a major priority. But now the killing of Foley said to be direct retaliation for U.S. airstrikes in Iraq. Airstrikes which are continuing around Mosul Dam to push ISIS back. U.S. nerves running high. The State Department asking for up to 300 additional U.S. troops for unspecific security reasons in Baghdad. The intelligence community worried about what will happen next.

PAUL CRUICKSHANK, CNN TERRORISM ANALYST: It's not clear whether the leadership will now pivot towards attacking the west. There's certainly a lot of concern that they could. They have the capability to.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BANFIELD: And Barbara Starr joins me live now from the Pentagon.

Barbara, we're just receiving word from the Pentagon, in fact, that there are further airstrikes that are being carried out. Can you give us some -- shed some light on what's happening?

STARR: Well, sure, Ashleigh. Let's be clear, these are airstrikes inside Iraq, not Syria, where this raid took place. These are airstrikes near Mosul Dam where the U.S. military has been carrying out airstrikes for several days against ISIS positions inside Iraq near that dam. They want to make sure ISIS doesn't regain control of the dam. If they do, the concern is that ISIS might try and blow it up or make the dam breach or fail, and that would cause a massive humanitarian disaster, would cause massive flooding across Iraq. So the U.S. has been keeping on going after these ISIS positions inside Iraq, Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: And then just, Barbara, obviously, the ante was certainly upped. Knowing now what we know about the former rescue mission that failed and now the threat of an additional hostage that they're keeping, an American named Steven Sotloff, do we know anything about the possibility of any other kinds of commando raids, any kind of rescue missions that may ultimately save the life of Steven or any of the other hostages?

STARR: Well, Ashleigh, let's be very clear here, these types of missions are the most classified, closely held missions in the United States military. They never talk about them beforehand, but they almost never talk about them afterwards. They want to protect all of their options. They want to protect their tactics, techniques, procedures, how they carry these things out so that they can preserve secrecy to do them again if they choose to. So nobody is talking about it.

You might wonder why this one now, so many months after the fact. They say it's because several news media outlets had information that the raid had happened and were about to publish about it. But, still, much of the detail about this one, even though it happened back earlier in the summer, still very closely held.

Ashleigh.

BANFIELD: All right, CNN's Barbara Starr doing the work for us at the Pentagon today. Thank you for that.

I want to talk more about the first known U.S. ground operation in Syria with Chris Heben. He's not just a former Navy SEAL. He was a member of SEAL Team Eight, a group that exists for exactly this kind of mission. And also joining us from Washington is author and terrorism expert and CNN national security analyst Peter Bergen.

Chris, if I can start with you. First off, when this kind of a mission is set out upon and knowing full well that you probably, and I know you can't say it, but you probably conducted missions very similar to this, are you given a degree of certainty, and are you also given what the unknowns are?

CHRIS HEBEN, FORMER NAVY SEAL: You're usually not even launched for the mission unless there's a 75 percent chance or greater of success. And by success, meaning the person or persons you're supposed to be looking for or getting are actually there. And all the unknowns are made known to you. The intelligence gathering is massive. It is massive. And it happens at a very high rate of speed. You've got guys chewing through intelligence data minute by minute, second by second, sometimes even en route to that compound, building or area in a helicopter or in a vehicle. It's that massive.

BANFIELD: Peter Bergen, the intelligence that the United States had before launching this operation, do you suspect that it likely came from former hostages who perhaps may have been released through the ransoms paid by western European governments?

PETER BERGEN, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Yes, Ashleigh, I think that's correct. I mean I think it's a public fact that quite a number of European hostages have been released. Money, I'm sure, was exchanged. Those people have been debriefed. Perhaps half a dozen of them. And that would be the principal source of information, although not the only source. But I think it's important to -- you know, an analog here is the bin Laden raid, when they were looking for Osama bin Laden. It wasn't clear even when they went on that raid whether bin Laden was actually in the house in Abbottabad, Pakistan, that they raided. So there's always uncertainty.

BANFIELD: So I suppose the question I need to follow that is that there's a certain amount of irony, isn't there, that if these terrorists are demanding hundreds of millions of dollars for the releases of these hostages, they're effectively letting their intelligence walk right out the door. Peter?

BERGEN: Well, you know, the demands for money, in the case of the 100 million euros or $132 million, you know, I think it was -- that's not a serious demand. You know, the kinds of money that we've seen been paid for hostages are much, much lower than that. But there is, obviously, a big market here and the French are willing to pay and other European countries. And it's not an accident that so many of the hostages are French. In fact, very few of the hostages taken by these kind of jihadist terrorist groups are American or British because it's well understood that there is no money in these kinds of cases.

BANFIELD: All right. Chris, one more question for you about the secondary mission, if there is one. Obviously, mission number one is to get your targets, to rescue the people you're meant to rescue. But if you show up and they're not there, what's mission number two? Get enemy combatants for further interrogation to find out where they went?

HEBEN: If necessary, if possible. Eliminate some of the enemy. If you're allowed to, take captives with you. You will, but you're going to gather as much data as you can, photographs, documents, interviewing people, whatever. So it's basically an opportunity to get whatever you can from that situation and bring it back so it can be studied and used against them.

BANFIELD: You both have been very insightful, and I thank you both for your time. Peter Bergen and Chris Heben, thank you for that. And hopefully we'll be able to speak further about this as this story progresses.

And next I'm going to be speaking live with a fellow hostage of Jim Foley. Nicolas Henin was held hostage in Syria for 10 months. And many of those months he was with Jim Foley. He's going to tell us what it was like after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: Before his horrific killing on a barren desert, Jim Foley spent almost a year and nine months as a prisoner of Islamic radicals. And remarkably, he had been through a similar ordeal just one year earlier in Libya. He had been freed. But few people on earth can fully understand what Foley endured and what other western captives have endured and continue to endure, those who are still being held. But Nicolas Henin can. Henin is a fellow French journalist, he's a freelance journalist, and he was held captive in Syria for 10 months before his release in April. He spent seven of those months with Jim Foley. And Nicolas Henin is kind enough to join me live via Skype from Paris right now.

Mr. Henin, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us.

If I could just ask you right off the bat, what were those seven months like? Specifically, how did Jim Foley do? How did you do? How were you treated? What was he like?

NICOLAS HENIN, FORMER ISIS HOSTAGE: Well, to be a hostage is not an easy thing. It's a lot of stress, a lot of pressure all the time, a lot of starvation as well. We basically are always lacking everything. And James was indeed specific, harsh circumstances, a very good friend and a great support. And he was always here when one of us was feeling not so well to just have some nice words. He was always extremely understandable and -- well, he was a great friend. It was - it could -- sounds strange for me to say that he managed to make these seven months of captivity for me easier but, well, somehow he did because it was just great to have him with me. And, well - well, yes.

BANFIELD: I can't imagine for a moment what this news may have been like for you. It's been difficult for so many of us who didn't know him, and now -- there seems to be such a desire for retribution of some kind, or at the very least to find the people who did this.

And to that end, the investigative forces in Britain and in the United States seem to be throwing everything at this investigation. They want to find the perpetrators.

And there have been reports in Great Britain about the killer speaking with a British accent, and some are suggesting that he may actually be named John. And he may come from South England, perhaps even East London.

And that it's possible former hostages not only knew him but knew of a group of British militants and nicknamed them "The Beatles" because they were British. Do you know anything about John?

HENIN: No, I don't.

BANFIELD: Or the Beatles?

HENIN: No, I don't.

BANFIELD: Nothing at all?

HENIN: No.

BANFIELD: Do you think that that's something that will at least be a lead for the Americans or the British or anyone else who's investigating there?

HENIN: It can be. It can be.

BANFIELD: It can be.

HENIN: I think it's --

BANFIELD: Go ahead.

HENIN: -- if the investigators try to go this direction, I think it would mislead themselves seriously.

BANFIELD: You think it would be misleading for them to go down this route for John or this group nicknamed "The Beatles?"

HENIN: Yes. BANFIELD: Can I ask you -- you know, thank god you were released. And

you made it home to your loved ones.

And Jim Foley, there was a ransom request that was made. The Americans don't meet those ransom requests. The western Europeans are known to do it, although no one will ever confirm it.

Do the captives, you yourself and Jim and Steve Sotloff, do they know this metric?

HENIN: Yes, of course.

BANFIELD: So when you are released, is that known to the Americans that they're watching the western Europeans leave because their governments paid for them?

HENIN: I was paid for. I don't know what was the term of transfer. I presume there has been a bargain because -- well, I have no clue what it was.

BANFIELD: Yes.

HENIN: I can't say. I mean --

BANFIELD: Did you ever have any kind -- I'm sorry, we have a delay between us.

HENIN: -- as a hostage.

BANFIELD: What was that? Can you repeat that?

HENIN: There are many things we can get in exchange for the release of a hostage. Not only money.

BANFIELD: Did you know or were you held with Steven Sotloff? Sorry. We have a delay, unfortunately. It's difficult to communicate.

HENIN: -- as I said.

BANFIELD: Did you know Steven Sotloff? Were you ever held with him as well?

HENIN: Yes.

BANFIELD: The American who's being held now? And what do you know about him?

HENIN: He was doing as good as he could according to the circumstances.

BANFIELD: And when you see these threats that are being made now for the Americans to stop an air campaign and air strikes against is targets in Iraq in exchange to save the life of Steve Sotloff, do you believe these is killers? Do you believe they would actually spare his life? HENIN: I don't know. I can't answer this question. I'm not in a

position to answer this question. It is a question to ask to the leaders in the west or to the leaders of the group, of ISIS.

BANFIELD: Do you think there's any chance Steven Sotloff will survive his captivity?

HENIN: Yes, sir.

BANFIELD: It's so good of to you speak with us, Nicholas. Thank you so much for shedding light on this and for sharing your thoughts about Jim Foley. It's a very sad time for everyone and for you and those who knew him in particular. I appreciate your time, sir.

HENIN: You're welcome.

BANFIELD: Thank you.

And now to the other big story that's been breaking, the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson, Missouri.

There is a brand-new witness who's come forward to describe what happened when Brown was shot by Officer Darren Wilson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: About time I get outside, he's already turned around, facing the officer. He has his arms, like, under his stomach, and he was halfway down like he was going down.

And the officers lets out three or four shots at him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BANFIELD: A big lightning storm, calmer policing, you can credit what you want, but the protests in Ferguson, Missouri, stayed very peaceful last night.

Meanwhile, Attorney General Eric Holder who visited that town where 18-year-old Mike Brown was killed, yesterday he promised that the investigation into the shooting would be fair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL: The people of Ferguson can have confidence in the federal agents, investigators and prosecutors who are leading this process. Our investigation will be fair, it will be thorough, and it will be independent.

The national outcry we have seen speaks to a sense of mistrust and mutual suspicion that can take hold in the relationship between law enforcement and certain communities.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BANFIELD: Reiterating that promise on live television this morning. By the way, some of the evidence that's going to likely determine whether police Officer Darren Wilson is going to face charges for the death of 18-year-old Mike Brown will likely be all of those eyewitness accounts of the shooting.

And as the days go by, a whole lot more of those witnesses are coming forward, and many of them seem to have slightly differing stories.

And a brand-new eyewitness has just told CNN his versions of the events, adding to what the grand jury that's hearing this case right now could end up considering.

Here's what Michael Brady told our Anderson Cooper about what he saw when Mike Brown was shot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR, "AC360": So when did you first realized something was happening?

MICHAEL BRADY, FERGUSON RESIDENT: Well, this is a little bit after 11:30-ish, friend of mine actually woke me up out of nap. He comes over. I step outside waiting for like three to five minutes.