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At This Hour

Brown Case Key Witness Credibility Questioned; How to Talk to Kids about Ferguson; U.S. Continues Airstrikes in Iraq, Looks at Syria; Should Social Media Websites Police Their Sites?

Aired August 22, 2014 - 11:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: However, the Missouri rules specifically state that evidence of a prior arrest, not a conviction. The mere fact of an arrest or even that you went through a trial is not admissible to attack the credibility of a witness. So we simply apply the rules of Missouri evidence, and they are pretty clear. When it comes to a prior conviction, even if it's 20 years old, that's coming in. If it's an arrest only, without a conviction, that will not come in as evidence of the lack of credibility.

MICHAELA PEREIRA, CNN ANCHOR: To Mo's point about tainting the jury or negative P.R., that's going to have an effect.

CEVALLOS: Since the beginning of arrests, we've had a problem with arrests creating negative P.R. That's why if you are convicted, that's something you can't get cleaned off your record. If you are just arrested and not convicted, you can usually get that cleaned. The fact of an arrest is a problem for a lot of people whose arrests have now resulted in convictions. There's a negative P.R. result. But it is the truth he was arrested.

PEREIRA: Mo, "The Washington Post" is reporting that the prosecutors still have not talked to Officer Wilson. I know that's a point of frustration for you. But is this normal or could this be strategy?

MO IVORY, ATTORNEY & RADIO TALK SHOW HOST, THE MO IVORY SHOW: Oh, I don't think it's normal at all, nor is it normal for an incident report not to be done on the day that an incident, and never mind a killing, takes place. So we know that Officer Wilson did not fill out an incident report. The protections, the zone of strategy that is around to making sure that Officer Wilson walks away from this is just so obvious. That is the reason why people have been calling for the prosecutor to step down.

I understand following the law and I agree with everything that Danny just said and the legal annualization prior to that.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

IVORY: Right, but it still doesn't take away with always enters into your court system, what those -- if it's going to be twelve jurors -- will think about what they know about the case and what has come to their attention, and this zone of protection over the officer is just completely wrong.

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: That's an interesting discussion. It doesn't have anything to do with the law. Remember, police officers are subjected to two inquiries rather than a civilian, who is only a criminal investigation. A police officer also has an administrative investigation, and they give a statement. They are required to or else they will get fired. It's called a Garrity statement and it can't be used against them in a criminal prosecution. My understanding is, in Missouri, each police department can apply this rule as they see fit. And St. Louis County traditionally lets the criminal investigation run its course before they take that administrative Garrity statement.

(CROSSTALK)

CEVALLOS: But because it's discretionary, St. Louis County may decide, well, this is an unusual case, maybe we should commence the administrative investigation, get that Garrity statement. But the officer, on pain of being fired, gives that statement knowing it will not be used against him in the criminal prosecution.

PEREIRA: There's so much to wade through. I appreciate you joining me on Friday, no less, to talk about. There will be more to discuss.

Danny, Mo, have a great weekend.

Take a short break here. Ahead @THISHOUR, we know that kids at Ferguson are supposed to head back to school on Monday. They were supposed to head back to school last month but were delayed about a week. I want to have a conversation about what parents are telling their kids, not just in Ferguson, but around the country. We're going to have that conversation next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: That's Grammy Award-winning artist, Lauryn Hill, one of my favorite singers. She just tweeted this version. She has dedicated this song to the town of Ferguson. Take a listen to it. You can hear it online.

We know kids in Ferguson are going to start school on Monday after more than a week's delay. Teachers are getting special training to help kids deal with the crisis. Some parents are worried that their children have been traumatized but they don't know how to broach the subject with them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They are going to have post traumatic syndrome to this like they have been in a war zone. I don't want to introduce my five-year-old to something like that. I feel it's too much for him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: How do we talk to our kids about what's going on in Ferguson, not just there but across the country? We thought we would dive into this subject head first. Why not?

Joining me now is blogger, Elizabeth Broadman; and our commentator, L.Z. Granderson.

The two of you, I appreciate it very much because I think what the three of us know how to do is talk about it, live it, write about it. I know it's sensitive, and hard and ugly. We got to do it somewhere, right?

L.Z. GRANDERSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Absolutely.

ELIZABETH BROADMAN, BLOGGER: We have to start somewhere.

PEREIRA: Elizabeth, I want to talk to you first of all. Your blog caught our attention. You are a mother of three young boys. You wrote this really powerful article that's gotten all sorts of likes on Facebook. You write things -- let me bring up what you say. "White privilege means that if you don't school your son about it, if you don't insist on its reality and call out oppression, your sons might become something terrifying. Your sons may become the shooters."

Your boys are how old, and what are you saying to them about what's going on in Ferguson, Elizabeth?

BROADMAN: My boys are two and four and nine months old. I think it's really uncomfortable to talk about race. It's really a scary thing to talk about. It's -- it provokes a lot of emotions, a lot of sadness, a lot anger. It's really important that we allow ourselves to feel these things and say it's OK to feel this stuff. This is the legacy of race in America and we need to confront it and really allow ourselves to feel that because that's the only way we're going to be able to keep going and work through it.

PEREIRA: L.Z., I know that you have talked about, here with me, you have a son and you have spoken with him on numerous occasions about Ferguson and about specific conversations you need to have with your son being a black teen in America.

GRANDERSON: Yes, absolutely. I mean, it is additionally taxing because you have to talk about those nuances, I think the most important thing parents can do is to actually live the conversation. What I mean by that, if you live in a segregated environment, how do you expect your off spring to live in a world with an integrated viewpoint. They can't. It's impossible. In order for your children to truly understand to live in a multi-racial, multi-ethnic society, you have to introduce it in your world, and you have to bring that into your own world first, living it, and then talk about it. If you are just talking about that, it's hard to communicate that message.

PEREIRA: Elizabeth, isn't that a good point? This is not just for white folks. This is for every race. If you are a black person living in a black community and only hang out with black friends, your world is going to be limited, too.

BROADMAN: Exactly, and that's so important for parents, is you are not talking about Ferguson. You are not going to have one conversation with your kids. This is a conversation you have to have every single day. You have to talk about race. As a white parent, it's really to ignore it, because you have the luxury of doing so, but it's so important, you just keep talking, you keep talking, you know. I always say you have to integrate the toy chest and the bookshelf. Your kids need to be able to see that people of color are an important part of our world, that they are around people of color. That they talk to people of color, and that they see that these are part of your community. This is part of our world. This is part of our America, and that that's the only way we are going to be able to have these conversations and for things to get better.

PEREIRA: But we also know that sometimes there's hard conversations that kids want to have with you that are scary, too. We watched a young man die.

L.Z., there are appropriate conversations to have with children and then there are not. How do you approach the subject of death in a situation like this with a teen that's having to go to school or with a child like Elizabeth's age?

GRANDERSON: I deal with these conversations the same way I deal with when people ask me about, how do you deal with your son about the fact that you are a gay dad. I allow his questions to dictate the conversation, which is there's no need to go to a three-year-old and talk about the 300-plus years of racial tension in America. There's a three-year-old conversation that's different than a 10-year-old conversation that's different from a 17-year-old conversation. Just because they bring up a topic, just let it go step by step. Because I brought up my sexual orientation, if you think about the reasons why the attitudes in the countries have changed about LGBT people in the country, it's not because of television. It's because of interpersonal communication. They have met someone who is gay. It's not as scary as they thought. They have a transgender employee and it's not as scary as they thought. The same thing can apply to race relations. Now being segregated the way we still are in this country -- and St. Louis is the number eight most segregated city in the country -- we have to integrate to truly understand and empathize with each other.

PEREIRA: We have to integrate our hearts and minds, too, which is another part of it.

Elizabeth, I salute you for your powerful blog. I know it was hard to come on TV and talk about it. It is an important subject. It's a hard subject. We've only scratched the surface. Hopefully, there can be more conversation as well.

L.Z., thanks for being game as always.

Take care both of you and have a good Friday.

GRANDERSON: Thank you.

BROADMAN: Thanks. You, too.

PEREIRA: Ahead @THISHOUR, how big is the threat of ISIS? How imminent? We're going to discuss.

But first, we're going to take a look -- we need this -- at this week's CNN Hero.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAM GREEN, CNN HERO: Bronx is really one of the most hidden gems of New York City. If you look in one direction, you'll see very industrial sites. If you look in another direction, you'll see tons of birds and fish and all kinds of native plant life.

I grew up in New York City, which is an island surrounded by water, but I wasn't a boater at all.

I ended up volunteering at a junior high school in east Harlem. We built an eight-foot dingy. I benefited as well as the students. That experience inspired me to create this organization.

You know a good trick for that? You just drop this on.

Our kids come from the south Bronx, one of the poorest places in the country. Their block is all they have ever known.

Kids learn how to build boats. They are sailing. They are rowing. They are restoring the river.

We open kids up to new possibilities. They can really go anywhere and do anything.

(SHOUTING)

GREEN: They have already got what it takes. They just need to put it to work.

(CHEERING)

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: Just getting word that the U.S. military has been conducting airstrikes in and around the Mosul Dam. We understand this was done in support of Iraqi and Kurdish forces on the ground there. They were able to destroy two armored vehicles that ISIS militants were using. The aircraft were able to exit the area safely. These are a series of ongoing airstrikes now, up to about 93 airstrikes across Iraq since August 8th. They want to protect critical infrastructure on the ground, U.S. personnel and support humanitarian efforts.

We do know that ISIS has been proven to be a group of brutal terrorists. And Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel says they pose an imminent threat to, quote, "every interest we have." Pentagon Chief Martin Dempsey warns, to stop this threat, we need to look at Syria.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARTIN DEMPSEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: To your question, can they be defeated without addressing that part of their organization which resides in Syria, the answer is no. That will have to be addressed on both sides of what is essentially, at this point, a nonexistent border.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PEREIRA: Another U.S. intelligence official says there are signs ISIS sleeper cells could be in Europe.

Before we talk about this, let me just mention the Pentagon is expected to address the threat of ISIS in a few moments time. CNN will obviously keep an eye on that and bring their comments to you when they happen.

Let's go to CNN's Brian Todd and talk about this.

Very concerning when you talk about this imminent threat ISIS brings to the U.S. What of this? And could there be groups of people in America that are aligned with ISIS that could attack from within?

BRIAN TODD, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Michaela, we're getting indications from analysts that that is possible. But we've had discussions with our intelligence sources over the past several days. They're telling us right now they're getting no indications there are ISIS cells inside the United States right now. They acknowledge that it could be a possibility.

But what they did tell us, Michaela, we are getting indications from a U.S. intelligence official is does have cells in Europe that could attack U.S. embassies and other U.S. interests there. There is a growing concern we've sensed from our discussions with intelligence officials over the past several weeks. Since the U.S. airstrikes began, that ISIS could mount an increased threat to the U.S. homeland because they have fighters with U.S. and other western passports. They now have the motivation to attack America, given the U.S. airstrikes in Iraq. And they have, you know, a lot of them are learning combat techniques, bomb-making techniques, while fighting over there in Iraq and Syria. So the threat from ISIS to the U.S. homeland is growing -- Michaela?

PEREIRA: We've been hearing about disenfranchised people from the U.S. and the U.K. heading over to join ISIS. Is there any indication how many? And can they even track them?

TODD: Tracking them is very, very difficult, Michaela. U.S. intelligence officials tell us their human intelligence footprint in that region is not very extensive and not what it should be. They admit that freely, that that makes it very hard to track them, especially in Syria. There are no-man's-land in Syria where U.S. officials have a difficult time tracking where these guys are going and who they are.

As for the numbers, there are a handful of Americans fighting with ISIS according to U.S. intelligence officials. But what they're telling us also is the number of Americans is really dwarfed by the number of Europeans. Hundreds of British, French and Germans within ISIS. They all have western passports. They don't need visas to go back to Europe and possibly launch attacks. They also don't need visas to come to the United States.

PEREIRA: That gives them the possibility to come and go far more easily than we would like.

Brian Todd, thanks for that. We appreciate it.

A reminder, the Pentagon is going to have a briefing at the top of the next hour. We'll keep an eye on that for you.

Ahead @THISHOUR, how should social media organizations deal with propaganda videos like the one posted by the militants and their websites? We'll talk with Laurie Segall about it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PEREIRA: When a horrifying beheading video by an ISIS militant showed up on Twitter, it got shared and retweeted over and over again. Twitter officials took a stand. They requested people not to share the gruesome and horrifying images. What role should social media websites play in policing what is on their site?

I want to bring in tech correspondent, Laurie Segall.

Good to have you here.

A horrible subject. Sadly, a very true reality. What can and what do social media websites do to sort of bridge this?

LAURIE SEGALL, "CNN MONEY" TECH CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, they have in place a lot of types of things. What was interesting about this, this was almost a watershed moment for Twitter.

PEREIRA: Self-regulating.

SEGALL: Twitter has always been a tech company. For the first time, we're looking at Twitter as a media company. The CEO came out and said anyone sharing this image, we will suspend your account. That is a very aggressive move for Twitter. But it was to a point where people would type in "beheading" to hear about it and they would have spam accounts and ISIS supporters tweeting at them pictures of this beheading. Where do you draw the line? It looks like a line has finally been drawn.

PEREIRA: Was there any blowback on the choice by the Twitter CEO? SEGALL: That democratization of information, your moral --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Your moral compass.

SEGALL: Right, exactly. Because for so long, Twitter, we looked at it -- they helped -- dictatorships were overthrown. People were able to --

(CROSSTALK)

PEREIRA: Social media, yes.

SEGALL: But now ISIS has gotten amazing at Twitter. During the World Cup -- I mean, this is unbelievable. During the World Cup, they were using the World Cup hash tag --

PEREIRA: They co-opted the hash tag.

SEGALL: So people searching for the World Cup would look and get these recruitment videos, which is pretty unbelievable -- Michaela?

PEREIRA: This is horrifying. I had no idea. A bigger conversation. What more needs to be done. Good to know Twitter took a stand and said this is what our rules of engagement are.

SEGALL: Yes.

PEREIRA: Laurie Segall, thank you so much.

On this Friday, I wanted to leave you with something a little less ominous to something entirely different now, something that's dominated your social media feeds for a good reason for several weeks. The ALS Ice Bucket Challenge. Either somebody's been challenged or you take it yourself. A hugely successful campaign that has netted the ALS Foundation more than $53 million over the past three weeks. Over the same period last year, the foundation only raised about $2 million.

Perhaps you have been scolded, however, like I have from my friends in drought-stricken California for wasting precious water in such fashion. Let me appease you, my west coast friends, here you go. Thanks to these two clever fellows out of California, the answer to California's conundrum, the Dirt Bucket Challenge.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dirt Bucket Challenge! Whoo, that's cold.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

PEREIRA: And they raised money for ALS, which was the bottom line. And it was an answer to the folks that are saying don't waste precious water in our drought-ridden state. That's a nice way to end the week, right?

Thanks for watching us @THISHOUR. John will be back on Monday. I will be, too.

"LEGAL VIEW" with Ashleigh Banfield starts now.