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White House Speaks Out Against ISIS Atrocities; U.S. Air Strikes Increase Against ISIS; Grand Jury Considering Michael Brown Case; Police Use of Tasers Versus Deadly Force Examined; Photographer of Ferguson Protests Interviewed

Aired August 23, 2014 - 10:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

CHRISTI PAUL, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning. So good to have you with us. I'm Christi Paul at CNN Headquarters in Atlanta. 10:00 o'clock here on the East Coast.

And I'm feeling a little empty today without Victor. But Victor Blackwell, live for us in Ferguson.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Yeah. Good to see you, Christi. It's 9:00 o'clock here in Ferguson, Missouri. Hello, everyone. I'm Victor Blackwell. You're in the CNN NEWSROOM.

PAUL: We're going to check back in with Victor in Ferguson, Missouri, there in just a couple of minutes.

But we want to begin this hour with a possible escalation of the US campaign against ISIS. US officials are gathering intelligence on the location of the terror group's leaders and troops in Syria, with the intent of carrying out airstrikes against them if that order is given.

CNN's Michelle Kosinski is in Martha's Vineyard right now where the president is vacationing. Any word, Michelle, when that operation may take effect?

MICHELLE KOSINSKI, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Christi, at this point, it's still just one possibility according to the White House. Yesterday we talking with the president's deputy national security adviser who agreed the murder of James Foley is ISIS' first terror attack against the United States. He didn't state it in so many words, but essentially said, yes, the U.S. is considering air strikes in Syria, but that would require consultation with congress, some legal justification, before doing so.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: Today's assessment of the ISIS threat by the White House is serious.

BEN RHODES, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: It's not simply the threat they pose to the United States. It's the threat that they pose to the entire world.

KOSINSKI: A big jump, though, this talk now about how to contain and ultimately and defeat ISIS as the lives of other American hostages hang in the balance, from January, when President Obama referred to such groups in an interview as a jayvee team when compared to Al Qaeda.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you still agree with his assessment of a few months ago?

RHODES: As they've become better funded through various funding streams including what they're able to sell in terms of oil and gas, the ransoms that they've been able to obtain, and that has developed their capacity in a way that has increased the threat. And they pose a greater threat today than they did six months ago and we're taking it very seriously.

KOSINSKI: The administration does agree, though, that ISIS is still mainly involved in regional operations, not the 911-level planning of Al Qaeda, and today the Department of Homeland Security and FBI sent out a bulletin to law enforcement across America saying "There is no credible homeland security threat linked to ISIS," but warns, ISIS is using social media to try to gain followers, and that it's urging acts of violence against, quote "American interests." And today the White House would not go so far as to agree with Defense Secretary Hagel's words yesterday.

CHUCK HAGEL, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: This is beyond anything that we've seen. So we must prepare for everything.

ERIC SCHULTZ, WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: They abduct women and children and subject them to torture, rape, and slavery. They've murdered Muslims, both Sunni and Shia, by the thousands.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So in those terms is that beyond anything we've seen?

SCHULTZ: I -- the president has addressed this a little bit ago.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does he agree with Secretary Hagel's assessment though?

SCHULTZ: That what?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a threat beyond anything we've seen or ISIS is a force beyond anything we've seen?

SCHULTZ: I think how the president views ISIL has been articulated a couple times now.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KOSINSKI: OK, so air strikes over Iraq, the U.S. was invited to do that by the Iraqi government. Going into Syria and trying to rescue hostages, the justification for that, of course, was try to save American lives. Air strikes over Syria now, if that is going to occur, would likely need more legal justification unless it was worked in to be, again, some rescue attempt to save those hostages. Christi?

PAUL: All right, Michelle Kosinski in Martha's Vineyard. Michelle, thank you so much.

We're going to talk about this with Democratic Representative Adam Schiff from California, and on the phone, former CIA covert officer Mike Baker. Gentlemen, thank you for being with us. Adam, I want to start with you. Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel, you know, said ISIS is, as we heard there, beyond anything we've seen. And I know you recently told NBC News, quote, "I don't think we've seen a more significant threat to American security since the early days of 9/11." With that said, do you think, as she just said, they may immediate more legal justification to go into Syria. Do you believe that to be true or do you believe that we need to target Syria?

REP. ADAM SCHIFF, (D) CALIFORNIA: I do think the president should come to Congress if he intends to embark on air strikes in Syria for the purpose of trying to defeat ISIL. If there is an immediate crisis, we have an opportunity to try to rescue other journalists or there's an eminent or immediate threat, in other words a plot against the homeland that he had to act on immediately, that would be one thing. But if we're talking about the same kind of more general air strikes that we're undertaking in Iraq, that's something that would broaden the mission significantly.

And frankly I think a case hasn't been made for that yet. We don't have the same resources in Syria, we don't have the same intelligence resources that we do in Iraq. We don't have the same government we can work with in Syria. We don't have the same fighting force like the Kurds we're working with in Iraq in Syria. So the limits are much more substantial in Syria.

PAUL: Mike, there is some estimation, 10,000 to 12,000 is fighters in these countries, and 2,000 to 3,000 of them have U.S. passports it is estimated. How strong or valid is a fear is may be a direct threat to the U.S.?

MIKE BAKER, FORMER CIA COVERT OFFICER (via telephone): Well, that's a very good point you raise, and the thousands that you're referring to are primarily all Europeans, but, of course, you know, a lot of them have a U.S. visa. So I think it poses a significant threat.

We've talked about this, the idea of the foreign fighter, the western here goes often to fight jihad, is trained and then comes back to its own country, whether it's the U.S. or in Europe or elsewhere, it's serious, a serious threat. We've been discussing that since shortly after 9/11. And we're seeing it now, and we know that this has been a problem.

Recently we were talking and been in a discussion about the southern border and the fact that if it's not as secure as we would like it to be, is it a potential crossing point? And my point recently was that, look, we know that Al Qaeda in the past had had conversations, had been looking to coordinate with Mexican criminal organizations. So it's not unprecedented and not out of the question to think that ISIS would be looking at the same opportunities as they're consolidating territory in Syria and Iraq and becoming more comfortable in that region, they will be looking to expand. SCHIFF: So, Mike, we know that there are sleeper cells, as we've been

talking about, in Europe of ISIS. Is there any indication there are some in the U.S., and if so, what is luring westerners to ISIS?

BAKER: Well, you know, there's always been unfortunately it appears that almost a bottomless well of disaffected, you know, underachieving, whatever want to call it. They are easily influenced. And Al Qaeda in the part and certainly ISIS with much of the same mentality and overall eventual agenda, they've been looking to and aggressively working to recruit that. They do that directly through contact or they do it through social media. We have more case studies than we need to show that it's been successful.

What causes them to do this? How are they successful? Well, now having some success because they'll realizing that vision of territorial integrity. They've actually got in their hands the potential for this caliphate that's been this vision for so many years. That itself is a recruiting tool.

PAUL: And that the propaganda they used, the videos that they put out there, Adam, how much do you think those videos and the social media aspect of this is actually working to lure people to their group?

SCHIFF: Well, unfortunately I think it's been very successful. The propaganda is highly professional. It's high quality. The fact that they do have territory now, something that bin Laden and Al Qaeda only aspired to do, has really helped their recruitment. Nothing breeds success like success, and they see ISIS claiming larger and larger swaths of territory and it does help drive recruitment.

And that is a real problem for us. You have an unhealthy mixture now with AQAP from Yemen and the master bomb-makers joining, teamed with ISIS in helping them strategize about attacking our homeland. And then that very significant threat that you pointed out, which is these foreign fighters returning home with the ultimate goal of attacking us or attacking our European allies. So it's a lethal combination of very sophisticated recruitment and an ultimate goal of attacks us here at home.

PAUL: Adam, James Foley, who was recently beheaded, as we know, this week, his brother came out and said he believes that more could have been done bring him home. Do you believe that's the case?

SCHIFF: I don't see how more could have been done, unfortunately. We mounted an effort to free the hostages. That was a very risky thing to do, and I don't think we should underestimate the tough call the president had to make. We don't control the skies in Syria the way that we do in Iraq and other places. So our aircraft were at risk. And certainly on the ground, in the midst of one of the strongholds of is, that was incredibly risky. So I think that's an extraordinary length that we went to.

There has been a vigorous debate how to pay ransom, but frankly I think the administration has it right and I think that only helps fund our enemies and ultimately results in more kidnappings. So I'm not sure, although I'm sure if I was a member of the family I would have wanted that ransom paid and I can understand the pain that family is going through.

PAUL: Yes. It's dicey territory, certainly. We appreciate Mike Baker and Representative Adam Schiff, the conversations with you this morning. Thanks for being with us.

SCHIFF: You bet.

BAKER: Thank you.

PAUL: Thank you. You, too.

Russia's state-run news agency meanwhile says several dozen Russian aid trucks did leave Ukraine this morning after rolling into the country against the government's wishes, the Ukraine government, of course. Russia says the trucks were on an essential humanitarian mission. President Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel among others called the convoy, quote, "a provocation." And there's growing international concern over the massing of Russian troops at Ukraine's border. There were up to 18,000 combat-ready troop there's last night.

Meanwhile, the other big story we're watching is the fact that it's now been two weeks since unarmed teen Michael Brown was shot and killed. Well, calls now for justice are echoing in the streets, but will the officer who killed him face any charges?

Also, we're going to meet the man behind the lens who's been telling the Ferguson story with all of these powerful, powerful images. Stay close.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back. I'm Victor Blackwell live in Ferguson, Missouri. The protests here are thinning out, but there's still significant outrage and distrust of the police force here. Today marks two weeks since an unarmed teenager Michael Brown was shot and killed by a police officer, and since then much of this community has been outraged. Overnight, though, it was peaceful here. There were protests but no arrests.

Today in a sign of solidarity with the people of Ferguson, there will be rallies across the country, and including one that's expected in the nation's capital. Supporters of Darren Wilson, who is the officer who shot Michael Brown, they are also expected to gather in St. Louis later today. In fact some of his supporters have raised more than $250,000, the last time I checked a few moments ago, it's up to $285,000 for his defense.

We're learning more also about the grand jury weighing in on this case. According to a St. Louis court administrator, out of the 12 person panel, nine members are white, three are African-Americans, two African-American females, one African-American male.

Also, as this distrust of the police force swells, there's another reason here for people to be suspicious of officers. The St. Louis County officer, he is in trouble. His name is Dan Page. You might remember him. He's the officer who pushed some protesters back, also CNN's Don Lemon while he was reporting earlier this week. This morning Page, who is a military veteran, a 35 year veteran of the force, he's on administrative leave because a video that surfaced of him making inflammatory comments about Muslim and women and gays, even President Obama. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN PAGE, ST. LOUIS COUNTY POLICE OFFICER: Now, this here is Kenya. I had my own airplane. I had me a Learjet. I said I want to find where that illegal alien is, our president, our undocumented president lives at. So I flew to Africa right there and I went to our undocumented president's home. He was born in Kenya.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Well, the county police chief apologized for his actions and called the video bizarre. CNN has placed several phone calls to what's believed to be Page's home number for comment and the disciplinary action, but we have not received a response.

CNN's Alina Machado is also here in Ferguson. She's joining us now. Let's talk more about this grand jury. What do we know about the members? And also we understand of course because of the secrecy of the process, there's a lot we don't know.

ALINA MACHADO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Victor. There's a lot we don't know and there's a lot we won't know because grand jury proceedings are secret. They're meant to be away from the public. Again, as you guys mentioned earlier on, we know that there are three African-Americans, nine whites on this panel. We also know most of the members are men. We won't know the ages of these jurors. We won't know what they do for a living or, really, anything about their backgrounds. We do know they were chosen at random from this area, from St. Louis County.

Now, when we found out the composition of this grand jury, we went out into the community and got a taste, a sense of what people thought. So take a listen to what some people told us.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Not so much the jury versus the prosecutor, because he has the power to present whatever it is that he wants to present at this point. And from what I understand, there not much in the incident report itself, so that makes me question what information are you going to be delivering to the grand jury?

MACHADO: Do you think race will play a role as they're sitting in there considering what happened and whether to charge officer Wilson?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It depends on what the evidence shows. You know, that's how I feel about it.

MACHADO: Do you have faith they'll reach the right decision?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I do.

MACHADO: What would you tell them?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What, the grand jury? Just go by the facts of the evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MACHADO: Now, again, it could be a while before we learn what the grand jury decides. The prosecuting attorney has said this whole process could go through mid-October. And by the way, I just want to point out, behind me you see a group of protesters. These people have been here's for a while and moments ago we saw for the first time in a few days the Ferguson police chief come out here. We saw him interacting peacefully with the protesters, just kind of asking them if they needed anything and how things were going. So Victor, it seems like things have calmed down quite a bit, as you well know, from where you are.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And we're hoping things remain calm throughout the weekend, expecting an influx of people over the weekend from out of the area, from across the country, actually, leading up to Monday, when Brown's funeral will be held a little more than two weeks after he was killed. What do we know about funeral plans, Alina?

MACHADO: We know that it's taken this long. I mean, as you mentioned, it has been two weeks since Michael Brown was killed. And it's taken this long for the funeral arrangements to be made because this family has had to endure three separate autopsies on the body. So now that we're moving forward, we know the funeral is set for Monday. It going to be taking place at a Baptist Church here in Ferguson, Missouri, and they're expecting a huge turnout here. The church mentioned that they've been preparing to accommodate more than 5,000 people, 5,000 people they're expecting could show up for this funeral. And a big reason why is because the Brown family has decided that they want this open to the public.

BLACKWELL: Public funeral, his death and his life in many ways, the people who knew him, having a large impact. Alina Machado here in Ferguson, Alina, thank you so much.

Christi, the first football game of the year for Normandy High School where Mike Brown was an offensive tackle, that is happening right now. We're expecting a moment of silence at the top of the hour. We hope to bring that to you live. But again, there will be many rallies, but still that moment of silence now two weeks to the day since Mike Brown was killed here in Ferguson.

PAUL: I know a lot of conversations are going on there with students and kids to try to reconcile everything that's happened. Victor Blackwell, thank you so much.

Meanwhile, I don't know if you're aware, but there's a cluster of storms barreling towards the Bahamas now. The big question is will it turn into a tropical depression?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: All right, we want to try to give you a smile today at least. And if this doesn't do it, I do not know what will. It's summer. It's hot. You want to get in the pool? So do all of these dogs. This, by the way, was at doggy day care. It was uploaded onto Facebook, and look at all of those tails wagging. I don't know about you. My dog would not even get near -- well, they'd get near the water but they wouldn't be so brave as to jump in. Look at that. Do you see -- look at them jumping off the side there. I've got mutts. I don't know why mine are afraid of it. I guess maybe they just can't swim.

But Jennifer Gray is here, because we are looking at some possible serious weather. The Bahamas may be in for bad weather. What's going on?

JENNIFER GRAY, AMS METEOROLOGIST: Yes, the Bahamas, we've had some weather in Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic, all because of this storm. Still a tropical wave but it could become a tropical depression, a tropical storm sometime today, even tomorrow. And 80 percent chance of development, hurricane hunters out there investigating as we speak. It has dumped a lot of rain across Puerto Rico, Dominican Republic in the last 24 hours. It's starting to pull away from it. So this will have the best chance of developing into something during the next 24 hours.

As it pulls away from that mountainous terrain it's going to enter into warmer water, some calmer water. It will enter more favorable atmosphere over the next 12 to 24 hours. So this could get its act together during the next day or so, could become our next tropical system. Caicos, southern Bahamas needs to watch out for this.

OK, so does it develop into something, say it does in the next day or so. Where is this thing going to go? Bottom line, we have no idea. It could stay out to sea. These are all the computer models we look at to determine where these tropical systems are going to head. It could stay closer to the east coast of the U.S. It could even venture off into the Gulf of Mexico. A lot of parameters will play as a role in this as to where this tropical system, if it does develop into one, say the next 24 hours, as to where it's going to go, Christi. So a lot is going to determine the next couple of days. This could impact the U.S. in the next couple of days, mid-week or so. It could stay out to sea. So this is something we're going to be watching very closely over the next couple of days.

All eyes on the east coast of the U.S. and the Gulf of Mexico, should keep a close eye. It would be irresponsible to pinpoint a location, because you see definitely a lot of uncertainty, confidence isn't high at all on where the tropical wave is going to head. So we're going to keep monitoring it for you, and once it becomes something if it does, we'll let you know.

PAUL: I was thinking looking at the models, you have one heck of a job in front of you trying to decipher that. Thank you, Jennifer Gray. I do know that if it turns into anything, she'll be the first to tell us there. OK, an effort to make kids' fast-food meals healthier. We're going to

tell you what cities are pushing for it, what changes they want to see.

Also, there are new details regarding the Michael Brown case, what another witness is saying now.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: It's 30 minutes past the hour right now. Put your feet up and relax a little. We want to tell you what's happening in the world. I'm Christi Paul. Here are five stories that we're watching this morning.

First of all, James Foley's murder, it's unmistakable proof, is it not, that ISIS is capable of anything? Since his killing the U.S. has increased air strikes against ISIS, even threatening to expand them into Syria. As a result the FBI and Homeland Security are telling law enforcement to be on alert for possible terror attacks inside the U.S.

Number two, a Hamas official now admits rogue Hamas militants knapped and killed those three Israel teens back in June. Their deaths triggering relentless violence between Israel and Gaza we're seeing now. A Hamas official says the militants acted on their own.

Number three, looking very much like a presidential candidate. Texas Governor Rick Perry is in New Hampshire. He admits he didn't do enough homework before jumping into the race in 2012. So if he runs this time, and he has said that he hasn't decided yet, Perry does, however, promise he won't make that same mistake again.

Number four, the world of diplomacy sometimes takes a bizarre turn. The Russian government has shut down four McDonald's restaurants in Moscow. The reason, they put it on paper, at least, is alleged sanitary violations. Reading between the lines here some say it's likely retaliation, rather, for U.S. and western sanctions on the Kremlin.

And speaking of McDonald's, New York city council hoping to make changes to happy meals. For that matter, kids meals at Burger King and Wendy's, also in fact, any meal that uses a toy as incentive is on the target list. The so-called healthy happy meals bill would limit them to 500 calories and cut down on the amount of salt in those meals.

It's been two weeks since Michael Brown was shot and killed by Officer Darren Wilson, and we actually had calm in Ferguson last night. That's where Victor Blackwell is right now. Hi, Victor.

BLACKWELL: Hey, Christi. No tear gas. No rubber bullets or Molotov cocktails, just a city trying to get back to normal. There are rallies scheduled for today, a moment of silence at the top of the hour for Michael Brown. Also across the country we're seeing reaction. Let's bring in Joey Jackson, HLN's legal analyst, and Marc Lamont Hill, CNN political commentator. Good to have you, gentlemen. And Marc, I want to start with you. I follow you on Twitter, and you tweeted yesterday that you spoke with an eyewitness of the shooting. What did you hear from this eyewitness?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I spoke to her a few days ago, and she talked about her vantage point during the shooting, which was downstairs in the apartment complex. And she described something that was fairly consistent with what we heard from the beginning, which was that Michael Brown was running. That he was shot with his hands in the air, and that once he was shot the first time he dropped to his knees and was shot again several times and hit again before he hit the ground, the idea being again that he was not charging towards the officer but instead was about -- she said about 25 feet away with his hands in the air.

I asked her repeatedly, you know, was there any chance his behavior could be viewed as aggressive? Could the officer have misinterpreted what happened. She said there was absolutely no way. She he was literally running for his life.

BLACKWELL: We know the FBI source tells CNN that the FBI interviewed 200 people, knocked on 400 doors, so that federal investigation, of course, continues. Let's talk about what's happening here locally, though. Joey, we've learned about the makeup of this grand jury here in St. Louis County, 12 people, three African-Americans, nine white members. There are some who are concerned about the demographic makeup of the grand jury. Are their concerns warranted?

JOEY JACKSON, HLN LEGAL ANALYST: Victor, good morning to you. Good morning, Marc. Ultimately, race is an issue. It's important. And it's important as attorneys when we do jury selection and it's equally important in the grand jury process. Why do I say that? Because it comes down to issues of culture, of upbringing, and also of perception. Obviously, if you grew up in an area where the police helped you get the cat out of the tree, your perception of officers would be a lot different than if you grew up in an area where perhaps you were stopped and perhaps you were questioned and perhaps you had interactions with the police that were on the negative side.

And so racial composition is significant, and that, Victor, calls to the issue and the forefront the question as to whether or not there should have been a grand jury impaneled? Should the prosecutor just filed a criminal complaint and then proceeded in the light of day. Filing a criminal complaint would have allowed for a preliminary hearing. We would have seen witnesses presented in at courtroom. You would have evidence that would be challenged by the attorney for Darren Wilson, and at that particular point, the autopsy report admitted. As I mentioned, the eyewitnesses would have been admitted, any forensic evidence, any DNA, we all would have been able to see that.

If not, that way, Victor, certainly in the event you go the grand jury process, perhaps even a special prosecutor would have been called for or warranted here.

So it comes down to the issue of trust, and it comes down to the issue of public confidence. We have to be certain, everybody does, that it's presented in a way that's proper, that's efficient, and that gets to the issues of justice. And so yes, the racial composition matters. It doesn't automatically mean there won't be indictment, but it is of concern.

BLACKWELL: Let me stay with you for the next question about the prosecuting attorney here, Bob McCulloch, says not recuse himself from the case despite calls for him to do so. Do you think he should?

JACKSON: Ultimately, again, I understand that he's an elected official. I understand, I'm certain that he was elected because the people have trust and confidence in him. At the same time, this is a rare case. And it brings to mind certainly ties that he has to the law enforcement community in addition to his own personal experiences where his dad had an interaction and unfortunately was killed by an African-American.

And so I'm not suggesting in any way, shape, or form that he couldn't be impartial, but it's about the community. It's about Michael Brown, about his parents, the feelings, and making sure things are done properly. So if there's a mass concern and there are people who have concerns and maybe it is time for him to say you know what, I want this to be done in the fairest way possible. In order to avoid any impropriety, any appearance, although I have none, could Bob McCulloch say, I am going to give this to a special prosecutors and let them handle it, let them take it over, and ensure the public trust and confidence so that justice could be sought and justice could be found.

BLACKWELL: Marc, most of the demonstrations we've seen here have been in support of Michael Brown, and his family, his parents. There has been some support shown for the officer, but there's also the funds online raised. I just looked -- $285,000 for Darren Wilson's legal defense fund. What do you glean from that number and from the strong fundraising support?

HILL: It's shocking and -- I shouldn't say shocking. It's actually not shocking. It's disturbing, though, and we saw it similarly with George Zimmerman where many people were raising funds for him. I spoke to people on the ground before I left Ferguson. Some people legitimately believe the officer has gotten a raw deal. I'm not sure how they gather that information or come to that conclusion, but they want to support him and give him at least a fair defense.

Others I've spoken to quite frankly don't have a defense of Officer Wilson. This is more about criticism of the black community for standing up for Michael Brown. Some people are simply part hate group, some nationalist groups. Not all of the people, but a chunk of them, many of the same people who are protesting on the other side of town last week in favor of Darren Wilson, people donating to this fund. So some people want a fair defense for the officer. Others people are simply saying it's almost a reward to use the language they used, a reward for killing Michael Brown.

BLACKWELL: There was a woman we had video of her. She had a sign that said she supports Darren Wilson, and she was saying that the officer has done nothing wrong, and was chastising protesters and demonstrators on the other side of the line for their demonstrations. But if they are wrong, then how can she say he's done nothing wrong because we do not have all the facts of the case yet, and we have forces still working to get all those? Marc Lamont Hill, Joey Jackson, thank you both for joining the conversation this morning.

JACKSON: A pleasure, you be well, Victor. You be well. Take care Marc.

HILL: Take care.

BLACKWELL: You, too.

Christi, the first game of the season for the high school from which Michael Brown just graduated is happening now. A moment of silence scheduled at the top of the hour. We hope to bring that to you live.

PAUL: OK, be watching for it. Victor, thank you so much.

And I know in all of these conversations when it comes down to a question of stopping a dangerous suspect, some people say, shouldn't officers have an option? We're going to look at the growing debate -- Tasers rather than deadly force, what do you think?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PAUL: Some describe it as an uneasy quiet that settled over Ferguson, Missouri. But there's a question that you just can't get away from. If Officer Darren Wilson had used a Taser rather than his handgun when he confronted Michael Brown, would he -- obviously, we know Michael Brown would still be alive, but in the critic the moments before an officer decides whether to use deadly force, there are no simple answers. It comes down to split-second reaction, training, adrenaline, and fear, and CNN's Rene Marsh says police officers wrestle with those things every time they reach for their gun.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Police, don't move!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the weapon!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The officers were dispatched to a burglary in progress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Taser, stop!

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: This is only a drill. Police in Arlington County, Virginia, arrive, guns drawn. Within seconds one officer swaps his gun for his Taser.

What triggered that decision?

CPL. MATTHEW PUIA, ARLINGTON COUNTY, VIRGINIA POLICE: When the suspect dropped that crow bar, that potential weapon, saw that the suspect had empty hands.

MARSH: It's training to help officers make a split-second decision whether to use deadly force. Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson apparently did not use a Taser before he shot and killed unarmed teenager Michael Brown, nor did two St. Louis county police officers before they shot and killed this knife-wielding man.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the knife!

MARSH: The St. Louis County police chief defended their decision.

CHIEF SAM DOTSON, SAINT LOUIS COUNTY POLICE: Tasers aren't 100 percent. Tasers require two probes to make contact with the skin. If one of those misses, that suspect is still coming towards you with a knife, with an edged weapon, with a knife, your life is in danger.

LT. MARLON BYRD, ITHACA POLICE: My position is that just because we can use deadly physical force doesn't mean that we always should.

MARSH: Veteran officer Lieutenant Marlin Byrd agrees. Officers' safety is paramount, but calls this a missed opportunity.

BYRD: There were two officers there. You had an opportunity for one to have less lethal, Taser, and the backup, the safety officer works have had their gun out. If the Taser didn't work, the other officer was in the position to use deadly physical force.

MARSH: Byrd believes a Taser have been used to subdue Michael Brown, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stop resistance!

MARSH: Officers are trained to use one level of force above the suspect.

BYRD: For the use of deadly force, common policy is that if the suspect is posing an immediate threat of death or serious injury to the officer, then the officer should respond with lethal force.

MARSH: Other factors -- the presence of a weapon, distance, immediacy of the threat, and the suspect's size and demeanor.

PUIA: If the suspect is dangerous or violent towards the officer but doesn't quite meet that threshold of an immediate threat of death or serious bodily injury, then they would respond with a lesser force option, such as a Taser.

MARSH: Lieutenant Byrd believes the fatal police involved shootings in Missouri highlights the need for better training, he says so police can talk down suspects instead of shooting them down.

Rene Marsh, CNN, Washington.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PAUL: And you know they say a picture is worth 1,000 words. Oh my goodness, the man we get to talk to next, behind the lens of this camera, he is telling stories with some very powerful images in Ferguson, Missouri.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BLACKWELL: We've been in Ferguson covering this story, the shooting death of Michael Brown and the protests thereafter or two weeks now, and it's captured world attention in some part because of the pictures people are seeing. Our legal analyst Jeffrey Toobin called it Fallujah on the Mississippi.

Take a look at some of the pictures. Look at this one, the cover of "TIME" magazine. That is an image that tells a significant part of the story here, and the man who took this picture is Getty Images photographer Scott Olson. Scott is with us now. That is a powerful photograph. Tell us the story behind that picture.

SCOTT OLSON, GETTY IMAGES PHOTOGRAPHER: When I took that, the police were, protesters were marching up to a police line, and then the police started opening fire with tear gas, and everybody scrambled to get out of the way. And after a little few barrages of tear gas, a woman walked out in a nonviolent way, kneeled down, and raised her arms in the air and stayed there. And I knew this was a powerful moment and wanted to capture it. And so I got in position, and the police kept firing tear gas right at her, basically landing near her and she was overcome with smoke. But she stayed there until someone said, no, you got to get out of here.

BLACKWELL: Reminiscent of photographs we've seen throughout history. It's surprising we're seeing that here in the U.S. But we're seeing that, Tiananmen Square comes to mind when you see that photo, a single person going to stand against the military style, at least, resistance here.

We've got another photograph. There's one of this man hold be a sign that says "Go kill ISIS and leave us alone." Tell us about the story of this man and this sign and how you got this photograph?

OLSON: This man was just a quiet protester. He was sitting in, I think an authorized protest area there, and he was sitting there holding the sign. He told me he'd been out there several days and had come out with a few different messages. That was one of them. Just it seemed like --

BLACKWELL: You've said that you stay away from protests usually. Why?

OLSON: Protests, it's not that I stay away from them, it's more that they're not exciting to cover. They're not that interesting, because they get diluted with too many messages and the importance goes away. This protest here though is different because everybody is staying on message. It seems to be an important message and a message I hear a lot from the community. And it's not just Michael Brown. It's the whole relationship with the community and the police in this area.

BLACKWELL: We've seen the photograph from "TIME" magazine. Do we have the picture on "BusinessWeek," the young girl, has her hands up, and she's there with two bottles? This one. Tell us about this photograph.

OLSON: That photograph was -- during certain days people would line the street with signs and march a little bit. But there were a lot of people just showing up with their signs. And this is actually a family under the left and right of this little girl, her brother and sister, and her parents were nearby. They were all -- the brother and sister were holding signs. I thought it was very unique having the little girl. I don't know if these understanding completely what's going on, but clearly her parents want her to see what's going on and why they're out here.

BLACKWELL: People ask me, they ask a lot of television reporters, how do you know when you have a good story? Got good characters, you've got action, relevance, emotion. I think you've got a good story. How do you know when there's so much happening when you have a good photograph that tells a story?

OLSON: I don't.

BLACKWELL: You don't?

OLSON: You know, you're doing the edit and certain pictures grab you because how much effort you had to put into them to capture them. And sometimes you think it's a good picture but it's not. When they appear like this. These have gotten quite a bit of play. When other people tell you it's good, then it starts to sink in.

BLACKWELL: We have another photograph. You didn't take it because you're in the photograph. You were arrested. Which night was this and tell us about the arrest?

OLSON: The arrest was, basically I was arrested for being a journalist in a public place, because I was on a street corner and people were walking by. And I was across the area they have that's penned off for the media where a lot of TVs are set up because they can be out of the way and not have to move equipment.

But a police officer came up to me and he asked if I was with the media. I told him I was. He said, you have to be across the street in the media pen. I asked if the street was closed to the public because journalists are allowed to go wherever the public is allowed to go. He repeated you have to be over there in the pen. When I explained to him that I thought that was a violation of the First Amendment and I was going to roll video to document it, that's when he immediately had me arrested me.

BLACKWELL: You said that no, you absolutely wouldn't go, and you called your lawyer, and you asked, what if I get arrested again? And his answer I read in "New York" magazine, we'll just come and get you out again.

OLSON: Yes, exactly. Just checking to him saying, are they going to amp up the charges if I get arrested again because I plan on going back and doing the job the same way I have been doing it? He said, you know, basically don't worry about it. If it happens again, you were right. We're going to come and get you again.

BLACKWELL: Well, I'm glad you're doing it, because these pictures are amazing. The picture on the cover of "TIME," the picture on the cover of "BusinessWeek." The woman with the water poured in her eyes because of the tear gas. Scott Olson, I appreciate it.

OLSON: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: Thank you so much.

Christi, some of the images we've captured here, amazing as well. We'll see live for you hopefully at the top of the hour live for you that moment of silence at the high school from with Mike Brown graduated just a few months ago now, and of course will try to have that for you as the football team there starts their season.

PAUL: Yes, and best of luck to them.

Hey, Victor, I'm here in the studio, but I know you're going to be back hopefully next week, maybe. Maybe?

BLACKWELL: I hope so.

PAUL: Yes. We'll see.

BLACKWELL: If things continue here we'll continue to cover the story.

PAUL: We certainly will. Thank you so much.

And we're going to sign off for you today. We'll be back here tomorrow, though, beginning at 5:00 a.m. eastern for NEW DAY. We hope you can just kind of wake up and stay in your bed and relax and be with us. We'll make sure you're informed as you get out the door.

But stay right here. Much more ahead in the next hour of the CNN Newsroom with Fredricka Whitfield. That's coming up next. Stay close.

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