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At Least $10,000 Raised In Support Of Ferguson Officer Darren Wilson; Police Training Examined; White House Calls American Journalist James Foley's Beheading A Terror Attack On Every American; Taking Out ISIS; The President's Working Vacation

Aired August 23, 2014 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM and I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

Two huge stories we are following this hour, one at home, the fallout after the unrest in Ferguson, Missouri, and another threat abroad with the terrorist group ISIS.

And we are going to begin in Missouri where the supporters of the Ferguson police officer who shot and killed 18-year-old Michael Brown took to the streets today making their own voices heard loud and clear. Officer Darren Wilson's supporters say they will not hide in the shadows anymore even after they reportedly received threat threats to the safety. The leader of the online group supporting Wilson is said it is time to stand up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Our mission is to formally declare that we share the united belief that officer Wilson's actions on August 9th were warranted and justified, and he has our unwavering support. Many of us have received death threats against ourselves and our families. Contrary to the media suggestions, we are not affiliated with any hate groups. At the end of the statement, the media won't inevitably asked for my name, others names and relationships, job titles, stories, et cetera. You want my name. My name is Darren Wilson. We are Darren Wilson. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Now, it was two weeks ago today that Darren Wilson shot Michael Brown, at least six times according to the autopsy reports. We still don't know what exactly happened leading up to that shooting. Wilson has gone into hiding. And a fund topping $230,000 this week to support him.

I want to bring in now national reporter Nick Valencia. He is covering today's rally in St. Louis.

Nick, I know that there is a lot of backlash are from this side of the fence, and in fact, saying that the media coverage has been unfair. What is the mood at the rally today?

NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Sure. We have been treated pretty well here today, Jim, I'd have to say. The rally here, the mood is altogether peaceful. You see these demonstrators here in support of officer Wilson lining the St. Louis sidewalk, some of these signs say this one here, it is all about the rule of law.

They feel that this is about fairness. They feel that officer Wilson has been prejudged in the media, and they think that is their time, and it is their responsibility to come out to show support and show solidarity for the man they believe was in the right. You heard the sound from that lead organizer who declined to the give her name because safety concerns. She says she has not only received death threats to herself, but also her children have received death threats. And she came out to saying that, you know, this is an important cause for us. They have raised more than $234,000.

Here today, Jim, they raised at least $10,000 for the support of officer Wilson. And Jim, if you want to pan around here, and showing all of the support of at least 150 people out here saying that they stand with him. They feel that the facts that have come out that they have seen. And in conversations with the Wilson family, that the fact s support officer Wilson and they are here to show their support for him -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: Thanks very much to Nick Valencia. He is in Ferguson, Missouri.

There is still so much that we don't know about the Michael Brown shooting,. For example, we don't know how close officer Darren Wilson and Brown were to each other when Brown was shot six times. Police are trained to consider specific factors before deciding to open fire.

Our correspondent Kyung Lah has more on how exactly the police are trained when and when not to fire.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When to shoot. For law enforcement like Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson who shot Michael Brown, and then ten days later the St. Louis police officers who confronted a knife-wielding mentally ill man. That decision begins with training at the police academy. This is standard training at a police academy?

ROB MARTINELLI, FORENSIC CRIMINOLOGIST: This is standard training.

LAH: Forensic criminologist Rob Martinelli says he has been an expert in more than 100 shooting cases, most of them officer-involved, wearing a standard officer duty belts (ph).

MARTINELLI: I don't know this person is armed. He is just a big guy and that is intimidating.

LAH: Ferguson police say Michael Brown's body was found 35 feet from the police car. IT is unclear what distance he was shot from. But these types of officer about shooting typically happen in close proximity.

At a San Diego area shooting range using training weapons, Martinelli shows us what is called the 21-foot rule.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, put that knife right now. Drop that knife!

LAH: The assailant rushes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Drop the knife, sir. Drop it. Drop it.

LAH: Do you have time to aim at this distance?

MARTINELLI: from this distance, there is no aiming.

LAH: Everything takes time, two seconds to un-holster and lift the gun.

MARTINELLI: After the press of the button, you have to move something, you got to rock it back and you got top pull it out.

LAH: The same amount of time it takes for him to run 21-feet, change the scenario.

So even at this distance, even where you see the knife, even when your gun is out, and he still gotten you?

MARTINELLI: Yes, absolutely. We can really see that knife right there and we can get, you know, I have got a lot of time, and I'm on my front side, and I can take shots. Well, then, that distance would be OK. Right?

LAH: But in most of the real street situations --

MARTINELLI: That is probably farther back, right. Calm down, calm down.

LAH: And change the scenario to a smaller female assailant, and you gain a little more time, but not much. And this doesn't factor in the officer's experience and adrenaline level, if there is cover or people are in the line of fire. Then add to the officer's duty belt.

MARTINELLI: More things you add to the holster or the duty belt, that delay the officer's response by 50 percent of the reaction time.

LAH: It is easy says Martinelli to say that officers like the St. Louis police have other options, but it does not mean every officer- involved shooting is justified.

MARTINELLI: That assailant poses an imminent not potential, poses an imminent threat to that officer of serious bodily injury or death.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCIUTTO: A look inside how police are trained to shoot. Thanks very much to Kyung Lah for that report.

Overseas, the beheading of James Foley exposed the vicious ruthless nature of ISIS. Now, the hunt is on for the militant who carried out his execution. That's right after this break. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Now to the growing threat from the terror group ISIS. U.S. officials are now discussing the possibility of launching airstrikes on ISIS inside Syria. CNN has just learned that the U.S. military has conducted another air strike against ISIS targets near the Mosul dam in northern Iraq.

In a reminder of just how dangerous the Iraqi capital remains, a suicide bomber targeted the intelligence headquarters in central Baghdad today, claiming four lives. And at least 20 people were killed in three car bombings in Kirkuk, in northern Iraq.

Meanwhile, the White House is calling American journalist James Foley's beheading a terror attack on every Americans. CNN's senior international correspondent Nick Paton Walsh has more now on the hunt now for Foley's executioner -- Nick.

NICK PATON WALSH, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Jim, the hunt by British security service, of course, was American help to narrow down who is that black clad man in the photograph next to Jim Foley is of course, getting tighter ever every day. They surely have a list of the 500 or so Britain's they believe have traveled to Syria, only some of haven't coming back, and they will be matching potential people. They gathered about those individuals with perhaps the voice recognition software from the message given in the video, but importantly also to the eyes, they are visible in comparative good enough definition. That can give a lot of information by metric passports in the United Kingdom and retinal scans often done as well.

So there is a lot there they can be looking at, there is already speculation of the British media trying to matching some of these individuals potentially to those who they now have already gone to Syria to pursue jihad there. But also, of course, there is a tense issue here as well and to remain some hostages held as well by the ISIS group inside of Syria.

So a lot of complexity here, and the security services with a lot of uncertainty. And of course, if they do establish who is this man, what do you do next? Do you try and to some sort of raid to capture him? Do you approach his relatives or family here? Quite what happens next, and what might that do potentially to the safety of the hostages still inside of Syria -- Jim.

SCIUTTO: And the alarming prospect of the Britain killing Americans in Syria. Thanks very much to Nick in London.

ISIS is a permutable force bent on inflicting terror (INAUDIBLE) and death to achieve its mission, all to establish a strict Islamic State known as a caliphate. But the Middle East isn't alone target of these killers. Here are some disturbing facts on their frightening ambitions (ph).

Let's start with these sobering thought. ISIS is not just a local Iraqi or Syrian problem because in addition to the massive amount of territory that is captured in Iraq and Syria, it is now already threatening Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey. And as Americans, the great concern is that they also have their sight set even further appeal.

Intelligence officials believe that there are about 1,000 westerners fighting for ISIS in Iraq and Syria. Among them, about 100 Americans with the belief of U.S. intelligence officials that they are being trained and encourage to carry out attacks when they returned home. In fact, it's believed that ISIS veterans have already carried out two attacks in Europe. The fear is that they will carry out many more going forward.

Now U.S. intelligence and counter terror officials are tracking ISIS veterans as fast as they can when they attempt to go home. The trouble is, even they will admit that it is happening as the U.S. capabilities are declining. For one, human intelligence known as HUMIT in the intelligence community has declines, virtually not existed in Syria and it decreased in Iraq after the U.S. withdrew U.S. forces from Iraq, much of the intelligence done there by the U.S. military.

Two, what is happening is what is called SIGINS, Signals Intelligence is declining as with well. In the post Snowden era, terrorists don't communicate the way they used to on cell phones, by emails, on Internet website and that is also decreasing the ability of intelligence agencies to track their movements.

Iraq and Syria are just two failed states that are now home to terrorist group with international aspirations. There are others in Libya, in Yemen, and Somalia. And when I speak to U.S. intelligence officials, they say did nothing that keeps them up at night more than the threats emanating from there.

It the U.S. and the west are serious about taking out ISIS, airstrikes in Iraq might not be enough. Will the U.S. have to go into Syria next, and what happens if the U.S. does not? That is just after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)\

SCIUTTO: With the new threats going more dangerous by the day, should Americans be concerned about ISIS militants carrying out attacks on American soil?

I want to bring in national security analyst and former CIA operative Bob Baer. He is joining us from Los Angeles today.

Bob, always great to have you on. You know, as I speak to U.S. officials, you listen to the NPI, FBI, you hear vastly differing accounts of how immediate the threat is from ISIS in the U.S. The intelligence officials talked about ISIS having the aspirations, in fact, even training an encouraging their fighters when they return home to carry out an attack. But the FBI just releasing a report saying no credible threats against the U.S. at this point. Where do you stand in that debate?

ROBERT BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, hate to say it, but I probably stand on the middle. What the FBI is talking about, they know of no specific threats, they know of no planning. On the other hand, it is what the FBI doesn't know that could concerns me.

ISIS does not get on the telephone and communicate. They have very sophisticated technology. They use peer-to-the peer communications which is very difficult to break into it. They use encrypted communications once they get into the United States. So what I have been listening to is to people who collect tactical intelligence on the ground, ISIS, homeland security, the police, and they tell me over and over again that ISIS is here.

Now, the question is, what are they capable of undertaking an attack or they have the will. After the Foley murder, I would definitely say they have the will. The question is whether they are capable, whether they can actually organize something, and that is a question I don't think anybody can answer.

SCIUTTO: This is one of the things -- and not to underplay the FBI report, because the FBI report also makes a point that homegrown violent extremism has own business, their wording, plotting remains unpredictable. And I suppose that is one of the issues here. It is sort of a hybrid threat, right, because ISIS is over there. But because it has American fighters who could return home on the American passports, it is also something of a homegrown threat which does not necessarily need direction from home base, is that right?

BAER: Exactly. You just need somebody to come back and sympathize with ISIS and say, look, we have to stop this bombardments and the way to do it is set, you know, kill somebody, you know, kill a lot of people at a mall with a suicide bomber. And this technology is easily accessible on the internet or it is learned on the battlefield like Syria.

You look at the Boston bombings, and somebody like that is going to sympathize with ISIS and come here and whether they were given a hint or an order or just do it on their own is going to be what has everybody concerned. The FBI is right, there is no specific threat, but I am sure that the FBI is all over this looking for that specific threat.

SCIUTTO: Yes. And I have been hearing from U.S. intelligence officials for months now about the concern about ISIS carrying out attacks here or at least trying to carry out attacks here.

I guess this brings up another possibility that you don't need to have a returning fighter from Syria to carry out the attack, because presumably, if ISIS can recruit Americans to travel from here to there to fight in a very dangerous war, could they not radicalize or find someone sympathetic to their cause here who would just carry out the attack without ever going to Syria? I mean, is that something that the intelligence is weary of?

BAER: Well, you know, I always put myself in the place of ISIS and what they would do, and what you'd need is people that are battlefield hardened. That have proven t n themselves, that have fought in places like Aleppo or Mosul and you know what they are capable of doing. They have learned how to build a constructive detonator and if you have planned to do something like this, you would want to send them back or a British national like the one that killed Foley, send him here, and that is what is always concern me or the people that know what they are doing.

There has been al Qaeda threat here, you know, for years. But the people that were supposed to carry it out like the subway bombing in New York, they didn't know what they were doing, and panicked and they were caught. I bet ISIS is more capable than al Qaeda and that is why the threat is more dire.

SCIUTTO: Let me ask you about the response and how to mitigate the danger. You know now that the administration is considering airstrikes not just against ISIS in Iraq, but also in Syria. You know, that was tried before against al Qaeda pre-9/11 airstrikes, didn't do much to disable al Qaeda from the air. How much damage can the U.S. and the west do to a terror group like this that controls so much territory?

BAER: Well, I think for start, United States has got to destroy ISIS' armor that was seized from the Iraqi army. It has got to destroy its base and its communications. I don't know if the administration is going to move toward decapitation. That's always a possibility with the seals and delta. That's a risky policy. But even more risk is putting U.S. troops on the ground, you know, visible troops, and a lot of them because we don't want to get into a war with the Sunni radicals. So there is something in between. And the administration is walking a fine line. And I think they are doing pretty good with what they can.

The Sunni radical threat came out of nowhere, frankly. I mean, I was surprised by it, and so was the administration, so with the intelligence agencies. The reason is because we haven't been looking into it. As I was listening to before, and there are no sources in Anbar province, in eastern Syria as where they are, and that's -- we are basically blind.

SCIUTTO: Yes, big intelligent gaps there and a part of problem. Thanks very much, as always to Bob Baer.

White House aides are fond of reminding us the Mr. Obama is president even when he is taking a break, on vacation, and even in fact on the golf course. So, is the criticism of the time he spends playing golf fair? We are going to ask a former White House chief of staff just ahead.

But first, this week's CNN hero, Adam Green, uses a nature refuge to expand the minds and opportunities of the children of the poorest congressional district in the country.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ADAM GREEN, CNN HERO: (INAUDIBLE) is one of the most hidden gems of New York city. If you look in one direction, you will see very industrial sites. If you look in another direction, you will see tons of birds and fish and all kinds of native plant life.

I grew up in New York city which is an island that surrounded by water but I was not a boater at all. I ended up volunteering in a junior high school in East Harlem where built a little eight-foot dingy. I benefited just as much as any of the students did from the sense of, I can put my energy into something and actually see the result.

That experience inspired me to create this organization "rocking the boat."

You know the good trick for that, just drop this on.

Our kids come from the South Bronx, one of the poorest places in the country,. Their block is all they have ever known. Kids learn how the build boats. They are sailing and rowing. They are restoring the river. There you go. We have opened up kids to new possibilities really to become someone they would never be able to otherwise.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The program has taught me that I can take on any challenge, and applied so many of the skills that I learned here. Now I'm going to go to a good college. I probably wouldn't have got there if not for "Rocking The Boat."

GREEN: What do you think of high tide?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pretty awesome.

GREEN: They can go anywhere and do anything. They have already got what it takes, they just need to put it to work.

CROWD: Rock the boat!

(END VIDEOTAPE)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in Washington.

Summer is usually a quiet time in Washington, but not this year. The White House has faced crisis after crisis, most of which are still unresolved today. And now, everyone is on vacation.

June 21st was the first day of summer and a gorgeous day in Washington. But just eight days later, one, but then ISIS showed how serious it was declaring a caliphate across Iraq and Syria, the Islamic state.

But foreign events weren't President Obama's only problem. The day after that, the House of Representatives voted to sue the president over his use of executive orders. Their rocky relations just made it more awkward eight days after that, when President Obama asked Congress for $3.7 billion to handle the immigration crisis. That is children crossing illegally into the country. But no chance of focusing on the domestic politics, because July 17th, Malaysian airlines flight 17 was shot down over Ukraine. Suddenly that simmering conflict with Russia was back to the top of agenda.

But despite all of those problem. Two weeks later, the lawmakers left for their summer recess, five weeks back home. And with all of those unresolved problems still lingering. And a week later, the president ordered airstrikes on ISIS in Iraq, a direct attack on those terrorists and the sudden return o the U.S. to war in Iraq.

But two days after that, the president, himself, left, too. Off to Martha's Vineyard for a two-week vacation. That vacation is reportedly included at least eight rounds of golf, that is eight and counting.

Mack McLarty was White House chief of staff under Bill Clinton.

Mack, first off, the president plays a lot of golf, we know that. But this week, he got particular attention, because he played golf just minutes after making a statement about the horrific beheading of American James Foley in Syria. I want to play what the White House said at the time and then get your reaction.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ERIC SCHULTZ, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Sports a and leisure activities are a good way for release and clearing of the mind for at lot of us.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Certainly, everybody needs their breaks. All presidents have taken time off, some more than others. But from your perspective, was that a bad timing for the president, and particularly just minutes after such a horrific event overseas to run off to the golf course?

MACK MCLARTY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: Jim, I believe it was. And that is in that specific incident, as you recall President George W. Bush had a similar instance where he said resinous about terror and said watch me hit this tee shot.

The world has change. I think President Eisenhower played a lot of round of golf as well and President Kennedy and his family had wonderful vacations. But it seems after that, the standard of how the press and, really, the general public looks at the president and his taking time off is changing, one some of it is course to 24-hour news cycle. But I think everybody feels that the president and the family need time off. They need time together. They need time to recharge. We certainly want the president, you know, rested in the right frame of mind to deal with the issues that you so thoughtfully laid out there. But you have to be very sensitive and mindful of perception. And you know, the picture is worth the proverbial thousand words.

SCIUTTO: Another instance that caused controversy is that the president did not attend the funeral of general Herald Greene who was killed Afghanistan, you remember the highest ranking American officer there, two-star general there.

MCLARTY: Tragedy.

SCIUTTO: I imagine that the White House, and President Clinton faced conflicts like this as well. How do you balance, well, the argument about taking a rest? Also, I imagine that the positive of saying, listen, you know, I am going to get back to work or keep my life doing forward and not be interrupted by things overseas, you know. That the importance of sending a calm message, how did you balance that against the optics of taking breaks in difficult times?

MCLARTY: Well, I think you framed it in just the right manner. There is a balance to be a achieved. President Clinton had a pretty unique ability to show empathy and concern about a situation like General Greene. And frankly, his natural instinct was that I want to go to the funeral, and I want to go to the tragedy or whatever it is, the engage engagement. But that does has to be tempered with such demanding responsibilities of the presidency.

And you said it just right, the president has to strike such a fine line of a careful between being and resolute and measure and yet being fully engaged and responding to what we sometimes called UFOs or unforeseen occurrences, and we certainly have had a lot of those in the last several weeks.

SCIUTTO: Mack McLarty, chief of staff to President Clinton, please stay with us, because we are going to take a quick break. But when we come back, just want to a very basic question, is there ever a good time for the president to take a vacation? We will have that right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: Mack McLarty, former White House chief of staff for Bill Clinton staying with us from Little Rock, Arkansas. We have been talking about presidents taking vacation, particular controversy reason with President Obama taking vacation and going to the golf course even after making a statement on the brutal killing of James Foley in Syria.

Mack, as we get talking I just want to throw off for our viewers help on the screen, an accounting of presidential vacation days through the year. And if you look at that, Obama doesn't looking too bad. In fact, George W. Bush setting the record there 879, Obama 150 so far, Bill Clinton who you worked with 174, there are about on the same pace.

So when you look at those days, the number of days is not out of whack. But I guess it all come s comes down to do you pick the right moments to go on vacation, and or in fact to go on the golf course. Do you think that President Obama has gotten it right?

MCLARTY: Well, I don't think you, frankly, can perfectly choose the right moment, Jim. Normally, the vacations are structure for the president not totally unlike the most Americans around the holidays and in the Washington case around the congressional schedule. You certainly don't want to be a long extended vacation when Congress is in session, so that is the natural rhythm.

But as you pointed out, so again, thoughtfully, the world events, it is a big priority. it keeps spinning and turning and the events keep happening, and that is really the issue. But I would say, really in support of President Obama and past presidents, the president never is off duty. It is 24/7. And what is important, the most sacred responsibility is the security of the American people, and to be sure that you are fully in touch, fully staffed and supported in case of a crisis or emergency comes up to where you can respond to it. And I am confident that President Obama and his team have gone a great measures to the ensure that.

But it does get back to the optics, you know, whether it is president Reagan cutting wood and riding the horse or President Bush clearing the brush and so forth, it does get back to the photo-op, and certainly President Obama and his advisers are well aware of that.

And again, it has changed, and people feel a little bit of anxiety these days about number of issues, and you have to be mindful of all of that and take it into account.

SCIUTTO: I got o ask you this. Because you know President Clinton very well going back to childhood and you saw him operate in various stressful times. I mean, we all have stressful times at work. But arguably nothing compares to the president seat. How conscious were you in your position of just knowing -- you are someone who have to make the weightiest decisions leader of the free world, how important for that person, that man or woman to get a break?

MCLARTY: Well, I think it is critical. I think it is critical for any person in any walk of life, because we all have different kinds of stresses and pressures in every walk of life. So it is certainly not limited to just public office holders even the president. But, yes, are there extremely weighty historic decisions that can change the course of history for better or worse that the president of the United States makes. Certainly, that is the case. And of course, the most difficult decision is putting the dedicated men and women of this country in harm's way. That is usually the most difficult heavy decision.

So that goes back to the point that the president has to have some control of the schedule, and some ability to organize things in the way that he would like, and feels comfortable with, and that includes some down time. Not just vacations, but in other ways as well.

I would say that both President Clinton and President Obama did not make use of Camp David as much as system is of the other presidents. At least President Clinton in the first term, because they had, you know, younger children at home, and it was not quite as natural or easy to go the camp David. That has been a real respite and wonderful place for many presidents to retreat to, but still keep up with the goings on of the presidency.

SCIUTTO: Well, for Obama and Clinton, it was Martha's Vineyard, I suppose, that was the real magnet for their vacations until to this day.

Well, thanks very much to Mack McLarty. Always good to have you. President Clinton's chief of staff.

The president's weekly address was more interesting for what he did not talk about and what he did this week. Nothing on ISIS. Nothing on Ferguson. Why would he avoid the two biggest stories this week.

Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill never dodge to the stories. We are going to talk to them right after this break.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: President Obama's current vacation seems to be creating more trouble than relaxation. Anti-Reagan once said that the presidents don't get vacations, it has got a change of scenery, meaning that the president is always working. But are President Obama's frequent rounds of golf in the past few days telling the public otherwise?

I am joined now by our political commentators Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.

Marc, if I can start with you, the White House claims as White Houses have always claimed that the president is working on vacation. He still gets daily briefings. He still makes decisions. So is this latest criticism over this round of golf and in particular, I'm talking about the round of golf just after he made a statement on the horrific killing of James Foley in Syria? I mean, was that round of golf a round, you know, step too far around, too far in your view?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, first, we have to separate the optics of this from the reality of it. The optics are that it never looks good for a sitting president to be on vacation, and President Obama is no exception. I mean, there is never a moment where the economy is stable, when there are no foreign threats and where everyone feels safe and comfortable. There are no natural disasters, et cetera. But that is the only time a president could take a vacation and be OK. In fact, the only time the president could probably take a vacation in the first three months which is the worst time to take a vacation in office.

So it is a very tough thing for the president to do and the critiques typically are partisan. When George Bush was taking long vacations, the left complained about it, right now the right is complaining about Obama. President H. W. Bush took 25 days in Maine after sending troops to Kuwait. The left complained about.

This is the partisan argument that both sides are guilty of. The truth is the president has computers when he is at Martha's Vineyard. The president has national security briefings when he is away in Texas. It doesn't matter where the president is, he or she is always working, and the President Obama is no exception. He gave three talk s on Iraq, he gave two on Ferguson. I would be much more happy if we could what he said in his talks, than a critique where he said them from.

SCIUTTO: Well, let's get to that because I do want to get to -- is there something he said in the weekly radio address, or maybe more properly what he did not say because, Ben, the president did not address Ferguson or ISIS. He talked about the super hot subject this week around, the export/import bank. Why?

BEN FERGUSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: It is called vacation. I mean, this is what you to when you are on vacation. I'm not one of those who has a big problem with anybody who is of the president being on vacation, as long as you are winning more than you are losing, and right now, he is losing a whole lot more on the issues than he is winning.

And to be honest with you, he knows that. If he was up for reelection this November, there is absolutely no way he would be on vacation right now dealing with ISIS in the way that it is going on. There is no way that he would come out and give what sounded more like a eulogy than a fight to ISIS and taking it to them, and then going to play golf nine minutes later. There is no way that he would miss a top commander who was killed in Afghanistan and miss that funeral or not even have the vice president be there if he was up for reelection, but he is not.

And so, I think his point is, I don't really care what you, guys, think. I don't care if you don't like me playing golf. I'm the president of the United States of America. I'm not running for anything right now. And I'm going to go on vacation if I want to. And I will come out to speak if I want to and I will play golf nine minutes later if a want to.

I think there is a little bit of arrogance there and it's going to end up backfiring on him.

SCIUTTO: Well, let me ask you. So I want to get to this topic, because the president is not running. He's a second term president, but he is worried about legacy. You look at George W. Bush. Never really recovered from that image of being away when Katrina happened.

When you look at something like this, ISIS, a clear and present danger and this is just the latest round of golf, Marc. Do you think that the White House is tone deaf, too tone deaf to the optics. And I'm not saying you could ever get this balance right because something is going to happen when you're away if you're the leader of the free world, but do you think this White House is getting this balance right?

HILL: I don't think this White House is getting it balance right. And the optics do matter. But again, we have to separate the optics of this one, the reality of this. President Bush being away at Katrina was important because the government needs to be there. The government had failed. FEMA was an absolute disaster pardon the pun during Katrina. And so, having a sitting president go to Katrina mattered because the government had failed down there.

Right now, President Obama is following the Bush doctrine perfectly in Iraq. What he like when he is in Iraq, and Afghanistan, or Syria isn't relevant to this point. I'm saying the president is doing targeted airstrikes, when he said he would do. He is threatening to do it in Syria. He's responded very aggressively to the tragedy that happened to Foley. So he's doing all the right things. His government isn't failing --

FERGUSON: Here's the difference.

SCIUTTO: Ben, you want to get in there.

FERGUSON: Yes, look at what happened this week. Barack Obama's taken a pre-9/11 mentality towards ISIS. He says the department of justice is going to investigate those that beheaded the American journalist, treating it like a crime instead of what it really is an act of war. Do you really think that ISIS is going to care if the justice department comes out with an arrest warning? Do you really think that --

HILL: That's not going to scare them.

SCIUTTO: I want you to hold this thought. Both Ben and marc, I want you to hold that thought. This is a great debate. It is important question, but we have a luxury of having you back after this break. So please stay with us.

The same day the president left for vacation, 18-year-old Michael Brown was killed in Ferguson and a new crisis erupted for the White House. The president did not go to Missouri. Was that the right call or a missed opportunity? That's just after this break.

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SCIUTTO: Attorney general Eric Holder arrived in Ferguson, Missouri this week, trying to calm after the death of Michael Brown. But President Obama does not seem to be planning a visit of his own. We're back with political commentator Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill.

Marc, looking at the decision, do you think that's something the president should consider?

HILL: You know, again, I think we have to separate obvious from reality here and also separate the content from what people want the content to be. When it comes to Ferguson, I was one of the first people say look, the president have this wrong. His statement on Ferguson was off. I wrote a piece of it for CNN.com saying he doesn't seems to legitimize black anger and how it is fully appropriate in the circumstances.

I didn't want the president to go to Ferguson. I didn't think -- I think sending Eric Holder was a much stronger move. Eric Holder has proven himself to be a race man, to be a principled race man to a large extent. And it also sends a signal that people who are looking for, are looking for justice, were are going to get it because the justice department was going to make sure there was a fair and impartial investigation. I thought that was more important than having the president come down there and talk about everybody be calm and talk about uses languages equivalence.

FERGUSON: What does race man mean? I mean, do you really want attorney general that you referred to as the race man? I mean, what does that actually even mean? Because it doesn't seems r sound very fair to anyone that might be in the cross hairs of the race man to get a fair trial or a fair investigation if you're referring to him as the race man. HILL: Here's my response to that. Because first of all, all of us

have a race, when you are black, when you are white, we all have a race --

FERGUSON: But it shouldn't be race with a attorney general. Race shouldn't matter to the attorney general.

HILL: Ben, you asked the question, I'm happy to answer it. When I say a race man, I mean someone who acknowledges the existence of race. If you go into an investigation and pretend that race doesn't exist, if you go in color blind saying that race isn't a factor to consider, then you actually don't get a fair and just investigation. Race man doesn't mean that he is rooting for the black guy or he is rooting for the white guy.

FERGUSON: It sounds like that that is exactly what you are implying now. I mean, when it comes down and meets with a family, that is giving a huge advantage to that side of the story which is not the job of the attorney general. You're supposed to be nonpartisan. You're supposed to be someone that says you the public don't know everything. We're going to make sure we find out everything. But when you go down there and you go and meet with this family and you say things in a race man type of mentality, it does not look fair or nonpartisan and that's his job.

HILL: Well, nothing was said in a race man type of partisan.

FERGUSON: You're the one that said it. I never heard it before.

SCIUTTO: Let's get to this question because I think that's down to an issue of semantics. Let's ask you about the president's role here. Would a visit from the president, clearly, this is an issue that has stoked racial tension on the ground and even in our discussion of it. You hear it on the airwaves all the time. Would the president injecting himself more so than he has physically going down there worsen the situation or help it? I will go to you first, Marc.

HILL: Right. Well part of that, allow me to answer previous question, because I think that is really important. It is that again, when Eric Holder is there, he's not talking race talk in the sense of saying I'm privileging one race over the other, but he's acknowledging race is a factor. I don't want President Obama to go down anymore because President Obama is not comfortable talking about race in sophisticated nuance fashion on issues like this. So I don't want President Obama down there because I don't think it makes matters better. It may make things calmer, it may obscure the issue, but ultimately, we need someone is willing to acknowledge that race matters and it isn't afraid or committed to ducking dodge -- ducking or dodging his own racial identity. I'm not saying President Obama's doing that. I'm saying that I want someone who won't do that.

SCIUTTO: How about Ben? Do you think the president should be more physically involved in this? Show up on the ground there or would that make it worse?

FERGUSON: No. Remember when President Obama inserted his foot in his mouth with the beer summit, would turn into him commenting on something when he didn't know all the facts? When you have law enforcement that are taking the lead from Eric Holder or even if Barack Obama went down to Ferguson, it would be sending a message of maybe I want you to push this in a certain way. I think there's a lot of pressure when you have anyone at that level speaking out on something like this.

And maybe people take it the wrong way or imply that you know, we want this outcome and that's the reason why I was not happy with Eric Holder going down there meeting with the family because I think it implies that we want that family to get what they want. And we want the protesters get what they want. And they don't care may necessarily about the fact, they want there to be a conviction.

SCIUTTO: We're getting a little taste here of just how much this conversation has to continue. I want to thank Ben Ferguson and Marc Lamont Hill. It's great to have you on. We're going to keep on top of this story.