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American Hostage Released; 6.1 Quake Strikes Northern California; British Official Close to Identifying Foley's Killer; Michael Brown's Parents to Speak at Rally; High Stakes for Emmy Nominees
Aired August 24, 2014 - 18:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.
And we are following two major stories today.
The first in Northern California, hit by the largest earthquake there in 25 years. Damage is scattered and more than 100 people have been hurt. That's just ahead.
But, first, we're also tracking a breaking story this hour out of the Middle East. An American held by Islamist rebels in Syria for almost two years has been released safely. Peter Theo Curtis was captured in 2012.
Two U.S. law enforcement officials tell CNN that the U.S. was not involved in talks to secure his release, but the U.S. was aware of private efforts to gain his freedom. Curtis was captured near the Syrian border with Turkey and released to U.N. peacekeepers today in the Golan Heights, that's right near Israel. He is expected to be reunited with his family soon.
In a statement just released by the family, Theo Curtis' mother had this so say, quote, "My heart is full at the extraordinary, dedicated, incredible people, too many to name individually, who have become my friends and tirelessly helped us over these many months. Please know that we will be eternally grateful. We are also so relieved that Theo is healthy and safe and that he is finally headed home after his ordeal but also deeply saddened by the terrible, unjustified killing last week of his fellow journalist, Jim Foley, at the hands of the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria."
We are learning fascinating details on Peter Curtis' release. Joining me now are CNN law enforcement analyst, Tom Fuentes, and national security analyst Bob Baer, used to be with the CIA.
First, Bob, if we could go to you. ISIS, we saw what they were capable of this week, the grisly killing of James Foley. Now, we see this, al-Nusra, another group believed to have been holding Peter Curtis releasing him.
Why that difference? Why did Foley die? Why was Curtis released? BOB BAER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Well, I think that Jabhat
al-Nusra is -- I wouldn't use the word moderate, but it is tamable. It's not completely radical group. It does want connections with the outside world. I've been in touch with it indirectly a couple of years ago. They want to be accepted. Their main goal is to defeat Bashar al Assad. Right now, they have no attention to set up a caliphate or randomly kill Westerners. So, I think that we were able to indirectly, if you like, that the family was negotiating with this group and make them see reason. And there's always the possibility that somebody paid money, unbeknownst to the U.S. government or the family.
SCIUTTO: Tom, I wonder if I can ask you, I know you've been involved in efforts in the past to locate and rescue Americans held abroad. The U.S. does not negotiate with terrorists when money is involved, they won't pay ransom. It says that it was not directly involved with these negotiations.
How would the U.S. look at negotiations like this through it appears the government of Qatar where money might have been involved, where the end result, of course is a happy one, but the method may not have been one that the U.S. is comfortable with? How would the U.S. look at that?
TOM FUENTES, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, they may be monitoring what was going on in the negotiations. I think the main thing for the U.S. is to be able to deny that it paid a ransom or it encouraged the payment of a ransom. However, as I said, if a ransom is paid by someone else, by a family or by an employer, that's different story. The U.S. does not obstruct someone else paying the ransom.
SCIUTTO: Does that open the door then, though, to allow private efforts to use money where the U.S. says, listen, we don't like it, but if it's going to happen out of our sight it can happen? Doesn't that fuel the terrorist groups like the U.S. is concerned it would?
FUENTES: Yes, it does, but not a lot they can do to prevent that or don't want to get involved in seeming to obstruct a situation where a family or employer is negotiating. So, it's a tricky area. The U.S. doesn't want to do it, doesn't get involved in it, but there are a number of countries that do get involved in the negotiations and the back-and-forth, and I think as Bob mentioned, this is a group that doesn't probably want to be categorized in the same way as ISIS and possibly have an attack on them. They want to -- again, they are not moderate, but they're not as severely extreme as ISIS.
SCIUTTO: And I just want to make clear to our viewers, we do not know that money was involved. That's still an open question. U.S. officials and others have not confirmed that.
But, Bob, I want to talk about the ISIS threat in general. Kurdish security chief told CNN today that ISIS has not wavered from its mission but that its strength is waning.
Listen to its comments. If I can, I want to get your reaction. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARSOUR BARZANI, CHANCELLOR, KURDISTAN REGION SECURITY COUNCIL: Mosul to them is very important. So, they will probably fight to death to keep Mosul and there are some key areas very important to them. That doesn't mean that they have given up attacking new areas. They are doing as, you know, if they can. But in general, we see that they are much weaker now than they were days ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, weaker, Bob, he says than they were days ago, presumably in part because of the effect of U.S. airstrikes. Do you buy that assessment?
BAER: Well, not exactly, because what's happening, Jim, is that the Sunnis in Anbar province, and that's where ISIS is operating, repeat to me over and over again they are not going back to the old agreement they had with Baghdad, Maliki broke that, they are not going to let Shia troops in their area and they will fight them alongside ISIS or by themselves.
So, we are talking about a long-term conflict here, even if ISIS were defeated by -- from the air, if it withdrew to a couple of places, it withdrew back to Syria, we would still see what I call an insurrection in the Sunni area, which leads me to believe that we have to, you know, re-jigger the agreement in Iraq that's going to look more like federalism than a completely united country.
SCIUTTO: And you have this horrible killing at a Sunni mosque just a couple of days ago, which the Sunnis are blaming on Shiites, and now, they've suspended those political negotiations.
Tom, I wonder if I could ask you about another possible, you know, but extremely difficult negotiation, you have this odd circumstance now where the U.S. and the government of Bashar al Assad are on the same side, they're both against ISIS. Do you see any circumstances where the U.S. could cooperate with its declared enemy, Assad, against ISIS?
FUENTES: Yes. I think we could. And I think we may be. We don't know everything that goes on back channel and that would include Iran. You know, when it's in the country's interest to form an alliance with another country, you know, we often put aside whatever they stand for. I mean, look at World War II, where we were allies with Stalin. So, you know, we can pretty well form an alliance if we think it suits us for a given purpose at a given time.
SCIUTTO: That's incredible thoughts, cooperation with Syria, negotiations with a group like al Nusra, messy situation there for sure. Thanks very much, as always, to Tom Fuentes and to Bob Baer.
Other big story that we're following here at home, Governor Jerry Brown issuing a state of emergency as clean up from a strong 6.1 earthquake begins across Northern California. The epicenter: the small city of American Canyon, California. But downtown Napa took the brunt of the impact. Historical buildings
reduced to rubble. At least 120 people were injured, six critically, including a young child. Thankfully, though, no one was killed.
And across the region, entire stretches of roadway are split in two. You see one of them there the picturesque wineries that mark the Napa country side received expensive damage.
According to the U.S. Geological Survey, 15,000 people experienced severe shaking.
I want to bring in now CNN's Kyung Lah. She's live again in Napa, California.
We also have CNN meteorologist, Chad Myers. He's following the effects of the quake from Atlanta.
Kyung, let start with you, if I can, because of all the structural damage we are seeing, including what we have behind you there. Where are local officials now focusing their efforts and where they're most worried about now?
KYUNG LAH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: They are basically flooding the zone right now. We are still hearing sirens. They are still trying to get to -- responding to all the calls that are coming in. And this has been happening throughout the day. You can still hear every once in a while a siren going off.
But what we are seeing here in downtown Napa is that they are going through and they're trying to tag every single building. Over here, just a short time ago, you see that red sign? That mean it is a red tag. This building is essentially condemned. It is declared by the city simply too dangerous to enter.
Why? Because look over here. This is all of the bricks that -- the sidewalk that people normally are sitting having coffee, enjoying lunch on a day like today. But those bricks came from up above. That gaping hole there, that wasn't there. That is what damage was done by the 6.1 earthquake.
So, it's still this process of trying to figure out which buildings they can enter, which ones they can search, which ones are going to have to really watch if the aftershocks come. They are still also trying to piece together how many gas mains have been broken -- gas lines have been broken, water mains have been broken and also assess the injury, Jim. There have been some 100 people injured. Most of them are lacerations and cuts.
And a lot of people near this community are simply shaken. It was quite a wakeup call that they got 3:00 in the morning. A lot of them say that it was sheer terror, they felt, as they felt this quake -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: I'm looking at some of that rubble behind you and the precarious, you know, situation with that roof kind of leaning on the edge, I imagine aftershocks are a major concern, particularly with buildings that have already been weakened by the first quake.
LAH: Absolutely. You're right. I'd love to give you a closer look of it but can he want get any closer because in part, if you stand too close to a building that is red tagged, has structural damage and then the aftershock comes, 5.0, which is -- a 50 percent chance of happening in the next week or so, according to seismologists, well, then that building could very easily come down. So, that's big concern.
The police here are asking people, including the media, to keep their distance, a safe distance.
SCIUTTO: All right. Kim Lah, right by the epicenter.
Chad, we spoke earlier to Richard Allen, from U.C. Berkeley. They have this early warning system, gave something of a warning. If you don't mind, I will play a little clip of what he had to say and come back for your reaction.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD ALLEN, UC BERKELEY (via telephone): A few seconds makes all the difference. So as individuals, you can take cover under a sturdy table and reduce the likelihood that you have things like ceiling tiles, lightning fixtures falling on your head, many injuries caused by those kinds of things in a major earthquake, but also things like elevators can open and close its door so you don't end up with hundreds of people trapped in elevator shafts, trains can slow and stop, the BART trains here in the San Francisco Bay Area already uses our demonstration system. (INAUDIBLE) chemical facilities can isolate the chemicals set by reducing spills and things like that. It's about chipping away at these things that cause all of the destruction and earthquake to reduce the overall impact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, Chad, I know you've taken a look at the system, just 10 seconds but 10 seconds, could it make a difference?
CHAD MYERS, AMS METEOROLOGIST: It's 10 seconds if you're that distance away, Jim. They were a distance here that it takes the shaking to get to. The instantaneous message was the -- just -- speed of light. It's in a wire. It goes as fast as it can. So, that's instantaneous warning, boom, it's coming.
But the wave doesn't do that. The wave doesn't go that fast. It goes slower. So, that's one second. There's two seconds. There's three seconds. Here's the wave and four seconds. Here's the wave in five, six, seven, eight, nine, ten, and finally, to Berkeley in 10 seconds.
So, if you're right at the epicenter, you don't get 10 seconds. If you are farther near Sacramento, you may get 30 seconds that would be plenty of time.
The issue is by the time the wave gets to Sacramento, it has attenuated to almost nothing. The real effort, the real positive part about this I think, is that three to five-second window where you're still very close to the epicenter, again with those BART trains, with the elevators, with all those things that people get stuck in, that's where the real value of this comes in.
At 10 seconds, yes, plenty of time to get under the doorway or get outside. If you're in San Francisco, that would have happened today. By the time the rumbling got there, wasn't really any damage in Berkeley, the damage was done very close to that epicenter, Jim.
SCIUTTO: And if you're at the epicenter, I suppose, no chance for a warning. Thanks very much to Chad Myers in Atlanta.
Still ahead this hour, the damage and destruction caused by today's earthquake, we will have more of the amazing images. But first, a dire warning in one Iraqi town that ISIS is about to massacre everyone there. That story and how the terror group became so powerful so fast, right after this.
SCIUTTO: And welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.
ISIS is on a killing spree, that threatens an entire Shiite town only 100 miles from Baghdad. The U.N. is warning of a potential massacre in the ethnic Turkmen Shiite town called Amerli. Sources tell CNN ISIS cut off the water and power supplies to the town, food is almost gone, medical supplies are scarce.
Meanwhile, British officials say they are close to identifying you the ISIS militant who beheaded American James Foley last week.
So, how did ISIS turn into a terror powerhouse so quickly and can the U.S. stop ISIS with airstrikes alone?
I want to bring in now Shadi Hamid. He's a fellow at Brookings Institution Center for Middle East policy. He's also author of a new book. It's called "Temptations of Power: Islamist and Illiberal Democracy in the New Middle East."
Shadi, I wonder if we could talk about is, you make the point that ISIS, the difference between it and other extremist groups, is that it's not just a group that delivers terror, it also makes the trains run on time. It provides government services, health services, et cetera.
How does it manage to do that and how important is that to its projection of power?
SHADI HAMID, FELLOW, BROOKINGS INSTITUTION'S CTR. OF MIDDLE EAST POLICY: Exactly, Jim. I mean this is a more sophisticated terrorist group, it's not -- not the old way of doing things in the early to mid-2000s, where you had these groups that were intent on destroying and there was no real affirmative vision. ISIS now controls territory and under their rule, you have millions of people in both Iraq and Syria and they run local governments, they dispense justice with Sharia courts. They have preaching bands -- preaching bands to spread their message and try to bring young people into the organization.
So, there's no doubt they are extremely vicious and brutal, but there's also a governance side. And with al Qaeda before, there was no real seriousness about establishing a caliphate. But this is the real deal, in terms of not just talking about it in theory but actually following through with it.
SCIUTTO: Struck me the other day, I had heard that they are issuing license plates already in some of the towns they have taken over. This is a model we have seen before, for instance, Hezbollah and Lebanon. It delivers health care services. It has schools, et cetera.
I mean, to your knowledge, do people on the ground, do some of them actually welcome ISIS when it comes, when it delivers these services? Does it have a support, a base of support on the ground?
HAMID: Sure. Is does actually have some local support. And that's why I think a lot of this rhetoric that ISIS is inexplicably evil -- yes, they are evil, but we shouldn't let that underestimate who these guys are and what they are trying to do.
At the same time, it's not as if they are the most popular group ever, but they do have pockets of support, especially in Sunni majority areas. And that's the bigger context here, that there has been a failure of governance in Iraq and Syria.
And with this political and power vacuum, extremist groups like ISIS are able to come in and say -- well, you might not totally agree with us, you might think we are too brutal, but we provide law and order. We actually run things. And you didn't really have that beforehand.
So, in that context, they are able to -- they are able to offer something that has some limited appeal.
SCIUTTO: Of course, we should remind viewers that that's only true if you're a Sunni Muslim, because if you're anything else, if you're a Christian, if you're Yazidi, if you're the Turkmens, they're now under assault in northern Iraq. The only answer from ISIS can often be death.
But I want to ask you, because you make a broader point in your book, which is something of a -- it's depressing thought, right, possibly true, but a depressing thought, the idea that democratization in this region does not actually help get rid of extremism.
Can you explain why that is? Because so much faith has been placed in democratization by the Bush administration, by the Obama administration, by the political process, but you're saying here it could empower radical groups like this. Could you explain that?
HAMID: Sure. I think democracy is in America's interest in the long run, but there is that short-term period where democracy makes things more messy, because under dictatorship, you had these -- these brutal autocrats who were suppressing sentiment, suppression the public. Once you remove those dictators, a lot of those things come to the surface and you have people expressing their sectarian, religious ideological sentiments like never before.
So, democracy empowers those new sentiments. And that's why I think you had, in part, the collapse of the Arab spring because Arabs and Muslims, by and large, at least in the Middle East, don't agree on the basics of the nation state and that's what we are seeing now. That includes a role of religion in public life. And that's why you have this Islamist secular divide, which is tearing some countries apart.
But even within the Islamist scene, you have more extreme Islamists like ISIS, less extreme Islamists, like the Islamic front in Syria. So, there are just so many cleavages and divides along so many different levels right now.
SCIUTTO: And the political systems cannot bridge those divides? Thank you very much, Shadi Hamid. He is with the Brookings Institution. He is also the author of a new book called "Temptations of Power: Islamist and Illiberal Democracy in the New Middle East". Thank you for joining us.
HAMID: Thanks for having me, Jim.
SCIUTTO: Intelligence officials worldwide are working to identify the man who beheaded American James Foley. Next, what the landscape behind the gruesome image of Foley and his killer reveal about his captors and his killer.
SCIUTTO: Welcome back. I'm Jim Sciutto in New York.
A memorial mass was held today for the slain American journalist, James Foley. Foley's mother and father joined dozens of supporters at the service in his hometown of Rochester, New Hampshire. Foley's parents stood in front of the mourners and gave thanks to everyone. The crowd then gave them a standing ovation. Horrible day for them.
The grisly video of Foley's beheading by ISIS militant was circulated online last week around the world, but now, British officials tell CNN they are close to identifying the man who killed him.
In addition to ID'ing Foley's killer, investigators trying to determine exactly where he was murdered. "The Guardian" newspaper, in the Web site Bellingcat, had been trying to narrow down the location where Foley's murder took place. Both suggest evidence points to Raqqa, Syria. That was determined by comparing satellite imagery to shadows and rocks seen on that videotape.
I want to bring in our national security analyst, Bob Baer. Bob, as you look at this, this is really a remarkable study, they used a lot of Google Earth images, satellite images, compared landscape on the ground, vegetation, roads, et cetera. You've done this kind of analysis in the past, I'm sure.
How much can the objects tell us about the area and could that, based on the location, help ID the killer? BAER: Well, Jim, the experts tell me they can narrow down the
location pretty well. I mean, embedded in digital images are things like temperature, humidity can be read. You can compare it with satellite photography. If this was in eastern Syria, it's pretty flat landscape. I have been out there, but they can do amazing things with this.
And sometimes, in these images, there's the GPS coordinates are embedded. I doubt these people allowed that to happen. They probably turned those off, made sure they didn't have it.
But the problem, Jim, at this point, is they may have gone out in the desert and filmed this but at this point it is the standard practice for people like this is to move the hostages immediately. So, you know, we can tell where it occurred, but does that do anybody any good?
SCIUTTO: That's question, that, of course, would be the first hope is it would help lead you to the others who have held there, including other Americans who were held there.
And just a reminder to our viewers, we are not showing the picture again of Foley and his killer, just because we don't want to overuse that, that image, do is a grisly image and many of us here believe it would give something of a victory to the group, that were holding it back, using it very measuredly.
Now, looking at this, Bob, if intelligence services are able to identify the killer, do you think they could then find him, kill him perhaps, or would he already be going into hiding at this point?
BAER: I would imagine he is going to stay with the group, keep fighting, somebody like this usually ends up dead own the battlefield but I think one day we'll run him down.
As I understand, his accent is from East London. I think the British are very good at this. Their records are -- you know, they use algorithms, run it through travel and all sorts of things, they will probably narrow this down and identify him and he'll be wanted man and justice will arrive one day.
SCIUTTO: Maybe someday, justice for the family, the family of the Foleys. Thanks very much, as always, Bob Baer.
Coming up next in CNN NEWSROOM, a rally for peace under way right now in St. Louis following the death of an unarmed African-American teen. We are going to take you there live right after a quick break.
SCIUTTO: Well, soon, the parents of Michael Brown are expected to speak publicly at a rally in St. Louis. Tomorrow, they will have to bury their 18-year-old son, killed by a police officer in Ferguson, Missouri. The funeral will be held in a Baptist church in St. Louis, up to 5,000 mourners are expected to attend. Brown's extended family alone totals nearly 500 people. The White House is sending three officials to the service as well.
Hours ago, supporters of the officer who fatally shot Brown marched on the streets in Ferguson. Those supporters say they have raised more than $400,000 for Officer Darren Wilson. He's gone into hiding.
Our Nick Valencia joins us now from St. Louis. He's at this rally for police in support of Michael Brown and his family.
Nick, what are you seeing there? What is the mood of the rally today?
NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hey, Jim, a fairly good turnout, especially when you consider how hot it's been here in St. Louis over the weekend. People have shown up to listen to music, gather, as the name suggests for this rally peacefully in solidarity with Michael Brown.
They've been treated to music, some vendors here, but really the focus today is on Michael Brown and Michael Brown's parents, who will come here to speak to this crowd about what they have been going through the last two-plus weeks after their son was gunned down -- their unarmed son was gunned down by Officer Darren Wilson.
Just a short time ago, we saw a crowd of reporters just off to the side of me gather at Sybrina Fulton, the mother of Trayvon Martin, as well as her husband. They're expected to be here today. She just showed up a little while ago.
Also expected to be here to accompany and show support for Michael Brown's parents, the father of Jordan Davis, whose high-profile shooting was -- captured headlines in 2012, Jim, there when he was shot in a gas station in Jacksonville.
But really the main focus of today is Michael Brown and hearing what his parents have to tell those folks here that have shown up to show their support for him -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: I see that Michael Brown's father has called on -- the protest to be peaceful, both today and tomorrow, as the funeral takes place. Are you feeling that that's likely? Are folks there concerned about things taking a turn for the worse again tomorrow?
VALENCIA: You know, when I -- when I first got here earlier this week, I spent a lot of time in the community there in Canfield where Michael Brown was shot and you got the sense that it was still very tense. The smallest thing could set anyone off, though largely, since I've been here, things have been calm, things have really, as Stephanie Elam had reported earlier, things have sort of calibrated on either side.
We've seen police sort of checking each other. We've also seen those demonstrators, for both Wilson and for Brown really take -- you know, take a calmer approach to their -- you know, to their stance in favor of either side. So things, while they may seem a little tense here, have not, for the most part, gotten out of control whatsoever -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: That's great point, it's an encouraging point. You're seeing a change really in tactics but also leadership on both sides, right, to calm things down, the police changing their tactics, less confrontational, but also the protesters calming things down as well.
VALENCIA: Yes, absolutely. And everyone really is looking forward to Monday and to that funeral for Michael Brown which will take police at 10 a.m. here local time. More than 5,000 people expected to attend. Room for 2500 people in that church capacity, but they will have overflow rooms, people, celebrities are expected to show up, politicians expected to show up as well as more than -- 500 family members, extended family members of Michael Brown.
The focus really is on that, but here today, you know, it's hearing about what Michael Brown's parents have to say and really their struggle after losing their son and what they have gone through in these last two weeks. So people really are, you know, braving the heat to hear what they have to say -- Jim.
SCIUTTO: Well, I'll tell you, Nick, those images behind you so different from what we saw earlier in the week and last week, just after the shooting there, and it's good to see it, frankly.
Thanks very much to Nick Valencia in Ferguson, Missouri.
VALENCIA: You bet.
SCIUTTO: Still ahead there are lots of celebrities that are expected at tomorrow's funeral for Michael Brown in Ferguson, but does that fame detract from the greater issues facing the community?
We are going to take a closer look right after this break.
SCIUTTO: Thousands of people are expected to turn out tomorrow for the funeral of Michael Brown. He, of course, was the unarmed teen gunned down two weeks ago in a confrontation with police in Ferguson, Missouri.
Many nights of unrest and the aftermath caught the nation's attention, the world's attention. The question now is whether his funeral can help this community get back to something approaching normal.
With us from Los Angeles is attorney Areva Martin and in Ferguson, commentator, Kevin Jackson, he is author of "The Big Black Lie" and the executive director of the Black Sphere.
Areva, I wonder if I can start with you, still so many questions unanswered. Of course you have the possibility of a trial to come here, but do you think this funeral will bring something approaching closure to Ferguson or is it way too early to even be discussing that?
AREVA MARTIN, ATTORNEY: Well, I think for the family funerals are very important, and particularly in the of African-American community, to have a big church home going is a very important part of our community. So I think the funeral is an important first step towards that closure. But clearly, as you've said, Jim, we've got the grand jury, we've got
to see all of the evidence that's going to be presented there, which will be presented in secrecy because that's how grand juries work, but there's going to be these months. You know, we've been told by the prosecuting attorney, it may take up until October for there to be some determination by that grand jury.
And I think for this community, until there is, you know, what people are calling for, which is an indictment of this officer, closure is going to be elusive in many ways for the larger community.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you if I can, Kevin, because this, of course, has captivated the nation's attention including expressions of support from a number of celebrities, and many of them are going to be turning up tomorrow. Snoop Dogg, P. Diddy and others.
Do you have any concern that this becomes something of a skeptical -- spectacle, rather, that detracts from the larger and very important issues here?
KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE BLACK SPHERE LLC: Yes, I think it is a very big concern. I think that the family appreciates the true heartfelt support for them losing their son, but I think that, as you've described, this is going to be a spectacle. I mean, being honest with you, most of these people have no concern at all for Michael Brown's death, or the death of many young black teenagers like him who die every single day all over this country.
And I kind of find it as more of a "I was there at ground zero" approach to this celebrity, you know, where they -- you can expect these guys to have T-shirts saying "I was part of it" or, you know, "I did my support," and I think it's a travesty because, you know, there's a lot of deeper issues here that need to be -- that need to be vetted out. And I think that they will be over the next few months and unfortunately I don't think it's going to be for the better.
SCIUTTO: Areva, you know, one of the deeper issues, you refer to this already, there's a criminal investigation underway here, the grand jury granted in secret, but hearing evidence in this case against Officer Wilson.
You're an attorney. Based on your experience and the limited information that we've all been able to see so far, do you think the grand jury is likely to hand up an indictment?
MARTIN: Well, we know, Jim, there's tremendous pressure on the grand jury as well as on the prosecuting attorney. You know, there are 70,000 or so people who signed a petition asking the governor to remove the prosecuting attorney because there was some issues about whether he could be, you know, fair and present a very objective case to the grand jury.
I do think we're probably going to see some charges. I'm not certain it's going to be murder but I wouldn't be surprised if there's some kind of manslaughter that's, you know, indictment that is -- you know, comes out of this grand jury. I think the witness -- eyewitness testimony, you know, what we've
heard about the medical examiner's report, there seems to be some mounting evidence that this unarmed teenager perhaps could have been apprehended in many other ways other than being shot six times.
Now, of course, you know, there's evidenced that we haven't heard, which will come out in the grand jury. We won't know much about that. But I think the sentiment at this point is that there's probably going to be an indictment of this officer.
SCIUTTO: So, Kevin, that trial or just the investigation, the possibility of a trial will certainly keep this conversation going. What is your take away from these past couple of weeks? It has been a jarring time for the country and it's been on the world stage, frankly, these images sent around the world.
What do you think the lesson is, the message about race in America that you think people will take away from this, maybe a lesson that they'll learn from this?
JACKSON: Well, I think the sad lesson is that people are so willing to jump to a conclusion and I think that, you know, the lesson that's being lost is that black community leaders who have accomplished very little to change the sort of the idea around how this all happens and how this type of thing gets created, I mean, we keep coming back to this idea of idle kids and no jobs, no opportunity, hopelessness.
And we continually look for places to blame and in this particular case we want to blame the cops. Well, that's like blaming the cops because there are no jobs in the community. You know, the cops have to police. But what's created this problem is these kids are idle, they don't feel like they have anywhere to go. They feel, as one kid put it, he says I feel like -- I don't remember his exact terminology, but he's almost like he felt like an alien in his own country.
And the people who are alienating him are the black leaders, the civic leaders that don't bring jobs, and then you go up to -- so in this case, there's a black state rep, you've got a black congressman over the area, you've got this member of the Congressional Black Caucus. You've got Barack Obama, who says he is going to create jobs.
I mean -- but at the same time, we're trying to make this a cop problem. You know, cops have a tough job and I think that, you know, just immediately running to demonize him is not the way to go. If this cop did something wrong, I hope they vet it out, I hope it's found out and he gets what's coming to him, but I don't think we should just be jumping to these conclusions that quickly.
SCIUTTO: Well, you make a great point. This has exposed so many issues, and one of them, as you rightly point out, opportunity, the disparity in opportunity in this country.
I appreciate you both joining us, Areva and Kevin. We look forward to talking to you again.
The bay area hasn't been hit by an earthquake this strong in 25 years, now Napa and the surrounding area are facing what could be an expensive and an exhausting rebuilding.
More on the earthquake in northern California right after this.
SCIUTTO: Hundreds of thousands of people were awakened by this morning's 6.1 quake north of San Francisco. And for the people caught in the worst of it the experience was harrowing.
Take a look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Earthquake. It's an earthquake.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kind of a shock, that's the biggest earthquake I've ever been. I mean, I was asleep on the couch downstairs, and then, you know, you wake up. I thought it was thunderstorm and then all of a sudden, I see the chandelier in the dining room shaking, everything, you know, things that are on tables that's falling off, I hear glass breaking, so I ran upstairs to regroup with my family, but, you know, even my little brother, he is 11 years old, he's -- you know, he's startled and rattled as well.
I was asleep and was woken from my fairly deep sleep, it felt like a ride, it felt much like being on a roller coaster and felt like it was much longer than it actually was, felt like it was occurring for about five minutes.
I do not have power. Do not have water. I'm -- first of all thankful that I'm OK and everyone that I know is OK as well, too.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It gives me the chills and this morning when it was really quiet down here, it is -- it's like a scene out of a movie, it's like really crazy and eerie.
TOM BROCHER, DIRECTOR, U.S. GEOLOGICAL SURVEY EARTH SCIENCE: It looks like a fairly typical kind of earthquake, the magnitude much larger than we've seen for a long time.
CAPT. STEVE BECKER, NAPA FIRE DEPARTMENT: Well, the hardest part was having to deal with the lack of water for the incident and knowing that you had structures immediately threatened by the ones that are burning and pretty much knew that you were destined to lose additional units without that water supply so having to look at something and get somebody out and know that there wasn't a lot of hope in saving that particular unit was very difficult.
We currently have four structures to the ground, mobile homes, and six to eight with varying degrees of damage.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Anybody hurt?
BECKER: At this time, we have no report of injuries and none of the occupants are reported missing associated with the units that are burned to the ground. (END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: We will have more on today's earthquake, including a live interview with California's lieutenant governor after a quick break. Please stay with us.
SCIUTTO: Gunshots rang out at a ritzy nightclub party hosted by the rapper Chris Brown last night, leaving three people wounded. One of them, according to police, is former rap mogul, Suge Knight.
The shooting happened in the early morning hours at a party celebrating the MTV Video Music Awards. No arrests have been made and all three victims are expected to recover.
This isn't the first time that Knight was shot at a pre VMA party. He was shot in the leg at a similar event back in 2005.
Now the Emmys will be handed out tomorrow night and this year's ceremony may be more star studded than in years past.
Here's CNN's Nischelle Turner with a preview.
NISCHELLE TURNER, CNN ENTERTAINMENT CORRESPONDENT: The prime time Emmy Awards.
PETER DINKLAGE, "GAME OF THRONES": I demand a trial by combat.
TURNER: It may not be "The Game of Thrones," but the stakes are high for nominees hoping to turn an Emmy win into ratings gold.
PETE HAMMOND, DEADLINE: The Emmys have always been a big help to newcomers. But in terms of what they are worth to the industry now, it seems like they've become a much, much bigger deal.
TURNER: Ratings aren't a concern for HBO show about death and dragons, it also earned the most nominations of any show this year with 19. But it's facing some tough competition in the Best Drama category. Many experts are saying "Breaking Bad's" final season makes it the favorite.
BRYAN CRANSTON, "BREAKING BAD": Everything is going to be fine, but we need to leave right now.
TURNER: Leading man Bryan Cranston is nominated for Best Actor in a Drama. But he can lose out to the man who just won a Best Actor Oscar.
MATTHEW MCCONAUGHEY, "TRUE DETECTIVES": Our face down with a plan.
HAMMOND: I think this is the year of Matthew McConaughey so I think it's natural that if he has a big Emmy contender we're all going to say he'll probably win that, too, like he won the Oscar. TURNER: As the star of HBO's "True Detective" McConaughey would have
to beat out not just Cranston, but a star-studded list, including his "True Detective" co-star Woody Harrelson and "Mad Men's" Jon Hamm who has been nominated seven times and never won.
JON HAMM, "MAD MEN": I worry about a lot of things. But I don't worry about you.
TURNER: "Modern Family" goes into Emmy night on a four-year winning streak in the Best Comedy category. The biggest obstacle to a record- breaking fifth Emmy? A newcomer on Netflix.
HAMMOND: It looks like "Orange is the New Black" may be coming up for Netflix and could upset "Modern Family."
TURNER: And if there was a theme this year it might be how the television Academy has recognized so few shows from the networks that used to be in control.
HAMMOND: Remember the good old days with CBS, ABC, NBC, even FOX? Where are they in these Emmys? Really, they have been just overwhelmed.
TURNER: Best chances for a network win in the drama and comedy categories might be in the Lead Actress in a Drama category where "The Good Wife's" Julianna Margulies is seen as one of the favorites.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of here, Alicia. You're fired.
JULIANNA MARGULIES, "THE GOOD WIDE": No.
TURNER: And all of the drama and comedy will play out Monday on television's biggest night.
Nischelle Turner, CNN, Hollywood.
SCIUTTO: You are in the CNN NEWSROOM, I'm Jim Sciutto in New York. And we're following two major stories today.