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Grand Jury Weighs Michael Brown Evidence; Should Obama Have Sent Aides To Funeral?; How Much Is An Emmy Award Worth?

Aired August 25, 2014 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: We also now are knowing the racial composition of the grand jury. I don't think I've ever in my career, quite frankly, Ana, seen that.

ANA CABRERA, CNN GUEST ANCHOR: Was that a mistake, Danny, in terms of the court revealing this?

DANNY CEVALLOS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I don't know if it was a mistake, but I have the exact same concerns and here's why. In Missouri, grand jurors are sworn in an oath that basically says, here is your main obligation. Keep your mouth shut, don't talk about this with anybody and there's more.

If you violate that, you're committing a misdemeanor. So imagine you've sworn in these grand jurors and told them that above all, secrecy is paramount. And by the way, we're releasing information about your gender and your racial makeup to the public.

And the reason that grand juries are secret is an important one because whether they return a bill or no true bill, indict or not indict, we need to protect them from any adverse consequences. Elected judges, they can handle the heat, but jurors are citizens doing their duty.

And it's a difficult duty. It takes them away from work and home and now to say to them, by the way, the secrecy that we talked about, that's a one-way street. We'll tell people about your gender, race and maybe other little tidbits that might be important, because we the government, the heat is on us.

CABRERA: As I understand it, this grand jury was not selected specifically for this case. They have been in their seats since May. So that was even before we knew Michael Brown existed for a lot of us. I wonder, though, they're not sequestered. So they could also be influenced by the mass amount of media attention, right?

HOSTIN: Well, no question about it and let's face it. I mean, there has been so much coverage, quite frankly, of this case and there are people that are staunchly in support of an indictment against this officer. And there are people that are staunchly in support of this officer.

And so the fact that they were impaneled in May actually gives me more concern, because it's clear this was indicted this case for a couple weeks, right? And so -- not indicted, but wasn't brought in front of the grand jury for several weeks.

There is no way that they didn't read about this case. There is no way that they haven't formulated some opinions about the evidence. And that is why I've said from the very beginning, this is not a case you needed to go to the grand jury for.

This is a case -- no. This is a case, quite frankly, that you should have a special prosecutor and that special prosecutor should look at all of the evidence and then decide to charge based on that evidence and bring it in front of a judge who will then decide if there is enough to go to trial.

That's the way you do it when you're a prosecutor because ultimately the bucks stops with you. Bottom line, even if this grand jury, Ana, decides not to indict, decides a no bill.

If they get more evidence, they could go before the grand jury again, they could impanel a second grand jury and quite frankly, they can even decide to charge anyway.

So this step, I think, is a misstep. You bring it in front of the grand jury, there's no indictment, and then as a prosecutor, you're almost punting it. You say, well, I thought there was enough evidence to bring in front of the grand jury.

But unfortunately the grand jury decided not to indict. Nine out of ten cases in front of grand juries get indictments. You can indict a ham sandwich.

CABRERA: But Danny, couldn't the prosecutor have just moved forward on this case by himself? He didn't have to send it over to a grand jury at all to begin with, right?

CEVALLOS: Right. And that may have solved a big problem, which is opacity. Citizens have been complaining that this case, law enforcement, has been too -- they have circled their wagons and they are not letting out enough information.

So when the word came out that this was going to be submitted to a grand jury, there were people, citizens, who said, that's good. But wait until they find out what a grand jury is really all about. It's all about secrecy.

They might have done better, possibly, by having a preliminary hearing, open probable cause hearing that would have been more open and less secret. In this instance, and Sunny is right.

If in theory and I'm not saying this is happening because it's so secret and it's entirely the prosecutor's show, in theory, a prosecutor who wanted to either punt it or actually just kind of throw the fight.

I guess you would use a sports analogy, could do that by just giving it a half a show to the grand jury. I'm not saying that's happening. But in theory, that's what grand juries have been criticized for. HOSTIN: And I think one thing that I would like to mention is we look at this makeup of the jury. Three African-Americans, nine whites. You need nine jurors to indict because there are only 12 in this state.

Can you imagine if there is no indictment? People are going to want to know, did the vote break down along racial lines. And so I think this exposes these grand jurors to so much animus, venom.

And this kind of high-profile case, they really made a mistake by deciding to go the grand jury.

CABRERA: Well, so much, we could talk about it. We haven't even started to talk about the federal investigation. We're just focusing on the local grand jury here. Sunny Hostin and Danny Cevallos, we're out of time. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll definitely talk more another day.

A special protest today to honor Michael Brown. College students across the country walked out of class in an event called hands up, walk out. They want to bring awareness to violence in minority communities.

Next, I'll speak live to one of the people who organized this event and explain what they plan to do tomorrow.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Well, family and civil rights leaders mourn Michael Brown today. College students literally took a stand, walking out of class, saying they are marching in his memory. They called it the hands up walkout. This was at Washington University in St. Louis, where students filed out of classrooms.

This was at 1:00 local time there. Tomorrow they're calling for solidarity actions around the globe to end police violence in minority communities.

I want to bring in Reuben Reggs. He is a student at Washington University there in St. Louis and helped to organize that walkout there. Reuben, thanks for joining me. What do you hope to do with this protest?

REUBEN REGGS, WASHINGTON UNIVERSITY (via telephone): Thank you for having me, Ana. Well, part of what we're trying to do is think about how students can be involved. We -- this case is especially resonant with us as young people, and us as students.

As you know, Mike Brown was planning on attending college. His first day was going to be last week. So we recognized we have a special place in this movement that's happening.

And we're trying to think about what we want to -- how we want to engage with the community and how we can be thoughtful about what our next step is and how we can amplify existing efforts instead of just duplicating voices. CABRERA: And when you say you wanted to, you know, call lights or bring light to the situation of Michael Brown's death, what exactly is it that you feel connected to about his story, especially since we don't know all of the facts about his shooting?

REGGS: Well, although we don't know all of the facts about the shooting, I think it is relevant to us as young people that this could have been us. There are black students and people of color on this campus that see this happening to them.

There are trans-students on campus who have experienced police brutality. And so we -- even though we don't know all the facts about this case, we know enough to know that this is -- impacts our lives and impacts our community.

CABRERA: Reuben Riggs, we do appreciate you taking time today. Thanks so much.

Up next, the White House has sent three representatives to Michael Brown's funeral today. But some critics say this gives the appearance that the president is taking sides in this case. We'll discuss that with our political panel when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CABRERA: Welcome back. As we have mentioned, the Obama White House sent three aides to attend Michael Brown's funeral today and that includes Marlin Marshal, who is a St. Louis native. He actually went to high school with Brown's mother.

Let's take a closer look at how the administration has handled this case with our two CNN political commentators, Marc Lamont Hill joining me from New York and Ben Ferguson in Dallas. Good to see you guys.

MARC LAMONT HILL, CNN COMMENTATOR: Good to be here.

BEN FERGUSON, CNN COMMENTATOR: Good afternoon.

CABRERA: Marc, let's start with you. The decision to send these three Obama staffers to the funeral, is it a good idea or does this perhaps send a signal that the White House is taking sides?

HILL: Well, I don't think that you're taking a side by sending people or condolences to the family. I didn't expect the president to be there, but I did expect some level of representation. I think that's perfectly reasonable and appropriate. This story is not just about one family.

Nights about cops versus community although that's certainly been a narrative here. It's about a nation really trying to come to terms with its racial wounds and I think sending someone there is actually a positive step.

CABRERA: Ben, does sending White House aides maybe risk politicizing the funeral? FERGUSON: I think it certainly is something that we should be concerned with because people in the community that may be involved in this case, those that may have seen exactly what happened. This will influence them.

There's a very good chance, when you have the president of the United States of America and the White House coming and going to this funeral, same way that you had the attorney general going and meeting with the family.

It puts out a picture that we believe that there has been an injustice done here, and that we believe that this family has become a victim, when in reality, we don't know all of the facts yet.

But if you're on the ground in Ferguson, you have information or you're connected or you're on maybe even a trial for this. Possibly in the future, you see this, I think it pushes you in a way that makes you think maybe there is an outcome they want that I should be a part.

And that certainly concerns me, because ultimately, we really want justice for whatever happened right and wrong here, not pushing one side over the other.

HILL: Ben, this has been maybe the most publicized shooting since Trayvon Martin. Every news outlet has covered it for 24 hours. It's been an international story.

I don't think three Obama aides coming is going to somehow make them think this trial is different or bigger or smaller than it otherwise would be. There is a narrative in the media about what happened already.

There are witnesses that will be played out. There is a grand jury investigation that will play out. That ultimately will determine this. And finally, I don't think that Eric Holder going and greeting the family is saying anything improper.

I think he's saying your child is dead. We're going to find out what happened and I think all Americans want to know what happened to this dead child.

CABRERA: Marc, I want to play devil's advocate here. Just a moment for a second, Ben, if you will. Why does the White House send officials to this service, but on the flip side, we don't usually see those officials attend funerals of police officers killed?

HILL: Well, I think we do see White House officials or the president himself when soldiers die, sometimes when police officers die. But the White House obviously can't be everywhere at once. This is an international news story. So it makes sense for them to respond to it.

The White House often responds when very particular things happen that speak not just to the particular case at hand, but to a broader national conversation. It would almost be irresponsible for the White House to treat this like every other shooting that happens. Even if an unarmed black men, which happens every 28 hours. But certainly this is bigger, yes -- men and women.

FERGUSON: Here's my problem with this, is that you had had recently one of the top people, the highest-ranking member of the military that was killed in action in Afghanistan and killed in this meeting there. You did not have top-level people from the White House go to that funeral.

And yet here there is politics involved. To be blunt, there is a lot of people that wanted to go to this funeral because of the politics that were involved in it. And so I think that's where there is this glaring difference in how this administration treats this.

We also know that there is a family that -- and this police officer, maybe he did not commit a crime because we don't know. Can you imagine that family, how they feel, seeing the White House and the attorney general and the FBI and those people meeting with the family of this young man and then sending people to -- from the White House to their funeral?

Do you think they feel like they're going to have a fair day in court? I don't think this police officer right now would think he's going to have a fair chance in court, based on the perception of what we're seeing from this administration and the Justice Department.

HILL: Well, there's no historical precedent for white police officers who shoot black unarmed men to not get a fair shake in court. If anything, history suggests the opposite, and you said that, you know, people are here because there's politics involved.

Ben, there's politics involved in war. Surely you don't think a dead soldier doesn't have a political edge to it. I wish the president went to every dead soldier's funeral. I think that would be a powerful gesture.

FERGUSON: We're talking about the highest --

HILL: Hold on, Ben, let me finish the thought. I don't think that's an argument for not going to this funeral. I think it's an argument maybe for going to more funerals. I think going to this one makes perfect sense and is perfectly appropriate.

CABRERA: Ben, finish your thought and we'll move on to another topic.

FERGUSON: I look at it from a simple point of view on the ground. You are connected or you're asked to be on a jury. There is now a perception of what you should, your opinion should be, based on who is showing up and talking to one side. I don't think that serves anybody well when it comes to true justice in this country.

HILL: Ben, 70 percent of the town is white. The black Democratic base has not successfully won elections largely because of voter apathy. If anything, there's a bent away from Michael Brown and his family, not towards it. CABRERA: I think there are a lot of people who are passionate about this issue. You two included, but let me talk a little bit about Hillary Clinton and maybe, you know, talk about the politics of this story.

It's been really interesting how quiet she has been on the Michael Brown shooting. In fact, just yesterday, she basically ignored a question as she left her book signing. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Secretary Clinton -- Secretary Clinton, what's your reaction to Ferguson, Secretary Clinton?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CABRERA: So she pretended not to hear, it seemed like. How long do you think she can avoid questions on difficult issues like this one, Mark?

HILL: Not much longer because I think people are frustrated. Her decision to ignore the question and not proactively and assertively address the Ferguson issue is shameful. Hillary Clinton should be ashamed of herself.

The Clintons have made so much of their political bones on the backs of black voters, getting black support, getting black love, identifying black causes. Hillary Clinton will go to Selma in 2008 and clap with black people and put on a fake southern accent and pretend to identify with black struggle and pain.

But now that real black issues are in the table, now that real black struggle is in the public eye, she has said nothing. Her silence is both telling and disappointing.

CABRERA: Ben, do you agree?

FERGUSON: I think that Hillary Clinton certainly did not make the right political move when it comes to minority voters. She made a smart move in saying I don't want to weigh in on then until we find out what happened on that day. There's a lot of information we have to figure out first.

Why would you want to come out there and jump all in on this when honestly you don't know what happened. Let it play out and then give your opinion afterwards.

I think that from her perspective, is a pretty smart move especially as being someone who's a lawyer, she gets. There's two sides to this and you may not want to pick sides too early and get yourself in a corner and get yourself in trouble.

HILL: But you don't have to pick a side. CABRERA: May I just point out that Ben, you agreed with Hillary Clinton's decision and Mark, you agreed with her. You guys usually represent the opposite.

HILL: That made my day. It's opposite day.

CABRERA: Thank you both so much for joining me, really appreciate it. We're back after a quick break.

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CABRERA: In a matter of hours, the 66th primetime Emmy Awards will be handed out to the best in television. So the red carpet is already rolled out. The nominees, they're holding their breath. With all this hype, how important is winning an Emmy to the future of an actor or even a show?

CNN's senior media correspondent and host of CNN's "RELIABLE SOURCES," Brian Stelter is here. So Brian, just how much is one of those Emmy statues worth?

BRIAN STELTER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: It's very hard to quantify, but it's very valuable. Your network is like HBO and Netflix buy full page ads. They take out commercials. They buy billboards in Hollywood all just to target the 19,000 people, who actually get to vote for the winners. So here's why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STELTER (voice-over): How much is an Emmy award worth?

(on camera): I've wondered this for years because I've covered the Emmys for years. I've always wondered in the back of my head how important they are. They're not like the Oscars where people suddenly go out and buy tickets to a movie just because it wins a big statue.

Television is on all the time. I know researchers tried and failed for years to come up with a formula to quantify how valuable an Emmy is. The answer is the Emmys are important. The statues can make small shows big and big shows bigger.

There's not a mathematical way to prove it. Now that the Emmy awards are rolling around again this year, let me give you a couple examples how they're worthwhile even though it's hard to put a number on it.

"Modern Family" might be the best example. When that ABC sitcom premiered a few years ago, it had a lot of fans. Then it won the Emmy for outstanding comedy and it gained a lot more fans overnight.

The second season was a lot bigger than the first and that was attributed by the creators partly to those Emmy awards. And "Modern Family" is not alone. NBC's "30 Rock" benefited when it won a bunch of Emmys right after its first season.

Driving more attention to what was a pretty low raised show at the time. AMB's "Mad Men" has consistently benefited as it's racked up more statues every single year. The Emmy's create so much free publicity, a kind of halo effect around the show.

Think about it this way, on the DVD box or on the Netflix queue, it can say Emmy-winning show. But that's part of the point about the Emmys, the financial rewards don't come right away.

If you're a TV star and you win an Emmy, you're probably already locked into a multiyear contract and not going to get a pay raise just for having the statue on your mantle, but it will come in handy the next time you renegotiate your contract.

Everybody likes to be associated with winners. That's kind of what the Emmys are about.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STELTER: Everybody does love a winner. CNN was excited Anthony Bourdain's "PARTS UNKNOWN" picked up a few statues earlier this summer. And now tonight, Ana, we'll hear about the dramas and the comedies that are big winners.

CABRERA: Speaking of dramas or comedies, Netflix is going in with pretty high expectations, right?

STELTER: They're really are. Last year was the first time they were up for any big awards at all. "House of Cards" was in its first season. It was up for the best drama, but it didn't win. It only came home with one big statue for directing and two others so three total.

This year, the expectations are much higher. They've got not just "House of Cards," but also "Orange is the New Black." So it's a continued sort of sense Netflix is arriving on the scene.

Not replacing HBO or Showtime or NBC and others, but adding to them and creating even more competition on television.

CABRERA: Well, it's interesting to see how Netflix has evolved too, bringing in this original programming and was once a movie rental.

STELTER: It's the main reason I'm on Netflix now to watch those new shows. They've been able to gain so many subscribers for that reason. The question is if they can pick up awards now from the whole TV industry for that.

CABRERA: That's going to give them the boost even more. Thank you so much, Brian Stelter and we'll look forward to the big show tonight. "THE LEAD" with Jake Tapper starts right now live from St. Louis.