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Dr. Drew
Thousands Attend Funeral
Aired August 25, 2014 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DREW PINSKY, HLN HOST (voice-over): Tonight, Michael Brown mourned by thousands.
Will there be charges against the officer who killed him? What if there are not? Our behavior bureau has thoughts.
Plus, this young mother arrested for leaving her two-year-old in the car while police say she was passed out drunk in a bar.
Let`s get started.
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Good evening. My co-host is Samantha Schacher.
Coming up, the strange case of a woman who got near the maternity ward or nearly into it with a life-like doll.
Sam, what is up with those people?
SAM SCHACHER, CO-HOST: I know. Dr. Drew, hospital workers think that she actually was there because she was trying to take a real baby.
PINSKY: Is this the pictures we`re looking at, producers, is that the doll? That`s a doll she was holding. Show that again. That`s a doll.
And the people that have those dolls are call reborns, Sam.
SCHACHER: That`s right.
PINSKY: You`re part of that movement, aren`t you?
SCHACHER: No, Dr. Drew, I`m not.
PINSKY: No? OK. I see.
All right. We`re going to switch gears and talk about something a tad more sad and certainly a lot more serious. Michael Brown laid to rest
today. More than 4,500 mourners were there. Have a look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are here today remembering the name of Michael Brown.
(APPLAUSE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I just want to say to Mike Mike that I love you and I wish I could hold you and kiss you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hear our voice. We have had enough of the senseless killing.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was not three-fifths of a citizen. He was an American citizen. We will not accept three-fifths justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Something strange that you can get all these guns into the hood but you run around chasing folks with selling cigarettes
walking in the middle of the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is imperative that we resist the chance to retaliate by looting and rioting in our neighborhoods.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will demand equal justice for Michael Brown, Jr.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
PINSKY: Joining us, Leeann Tweeden, social commentator, host of "The Tomboys Podcast" on Blog Talk Radio, Vanessa Barnett, hiphollywood.com,
Loni Coombs, attorney and author of "You`re Perfect and Other Lies Parents Tell".
Vanessa, your thoughts on the funeral.
VANESSA BARNETT, HIPHOLLYWOOD.COM: You know, watching the funeral I wanted to just say that it was a beautiful ceremony. I saw on Twitter --
PINSKY: There you go again, bringing your racist views to our programming. She was accused of that by somebody in social media. Give me
a break.
BARNETT: I was accused of being racist. We forget about the Twitter trolls.
I will say that the ceremony was beautiful. And some people don`t get the joyous nature of it. And the choir and the celebration, but it really
is just that, it`s a celebration of life. And they did such a great job of speaking about Mike Brown and just how we can take this further and look
for change and be the change that we want to see. And so, that was amazing.
I also saw people on Twitter talking about the celebrities that were there. They didn`t understand why Diddy or Snoop Dogg were there. They
didn`t know Mike Brown.
I`m hopeful and pray that they`re there to spread awareness. I don`t think this was a selfish act then they want to be involved because it`s so-
called popular right now. I think they`re there to spread more awareness and the positivity in the ceremony. They want people to see the positivity
and not the rioting and the looting.
PINSKY: So, Sam, this is a very public social political issue. I would think that celebrity and politicians would want to show up to be a
part of.
You agree?
SCHACHER: Yes, absolutely. It is a social movement. And more importantly, not more importantly, but I think one of the bigger issues
here that underscores this entire tragedy is at the end of the day, we need to reexamine our current police system.
How do we enforce more community policing? Should we have cameras on their badges? How do we make sure something like this doesn`t happen? Is
it more education? Is it more training? How can we better equip police officers to make sure that they don`t feel that they have to be in the
situation as well?
PINSKY: Well, right. Loni, I want to ask you that question, because you were representative of the legal system here. And this, for me, as
much as anything, one of the things that came up in this story is how different every community`s police force might be.
I was reflecting on the fact that here in L.A., we use a lot of tasers, slow pursuit, rubber bullets. I don`t see guns out very much, you
know? And they`re very effective.
Why only here? You know what I mean? What`s going on?
LONI COOMBS, ATTORNEY: You know, it`s always interesting, Dr. Drew. L.A. takes a lot of heat for its police force. And yet, when you look
across the country, I really do tip my hat to LAPD in many, many respects.
Every law enforcement kind of does their own training, has their own approach to responses and there are a lot of ways to respond non-lethally
for police officers. It`s about getting the right training. It`s a matter of getting the right equipment, even like the cameras --
PINSKY: Is it too expensive?
COOMBS: Well, that`s a good question. Sam was talking about the cameras. One of the first press conferences, the police chef there in
Ferguson said we couldn`t get the cameras because we didn`t have the money. We finally got the funding, they`re here in the boxes in the station. We
haven`t put them on the cars yet.
Can you imagine if it had been on the car the day this happened? It would be totally different story for everyone.
That kind of things needs to be changed. There`s funding to put them on the cars and get them there. But every police station across the
country should have those cameras.
PINSKY: And, Leeann, same question to you.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think, look. Today, we`re thinking about Michael Brown`s family and, you know, it was a
tragedy. And his life -- he should still be alive. I think what guys were saying at the pulpit or speaking at his ceremony, when he talks about
three-fifths of a man, that we should expect more than three-fifths justice. Well, that`s what we have to wait for.
We`ve been talking about this for a week and a half, Dr. Drew. And all of the evidence has to be looked at. It`s not -- it`s a slow process
but we have to do it right. If he is going to be tried or they`re going to arrest him for killing him, then they`re going to do that. But they need
to take all of the evidence.
And I think people need to calm down and reflect on Michael Brown`s life. But also we have to do justice to the cop as well. We can`t just
arrest him because everybody wants to lynch him in that town. We can`t do that. We have to follow the rule of law and we have to do what they ore
doing. And it`s going to take time.
PINSKY: I want to share with you I thought I had this morning. I was in the shower this morning. I was thinking about my own reaction with
police that has not gone well other the years. And I mentioned, I thought of a few other reactions, one where a cop lied in court about me, a
terrible, terrible thing.
But I didn`t walk away going police suck. I didn`t -- you know, the one cop when I was like 15 years old, I was literally walking past him,
everybody cleared the street and I said under my breath, he means the sidewalk. And I was lifted off the ground and shaken until I thought my
head was going to fall. He said, you`re just calling me names. What do you think you are? I couldn`t believe he heard me.
And I thought -- I didn`t think this guy is going the try to kill me. I didn`t think -- I just walked away shook up. Oh, god, what an awful
thing. No one ever taught me cops are going to hurt me.
Vanessa, I guess this question is directed to you. It seems like African-American parents teach their kids that cops are going to hurt them.
And I thought, wow, if that have been in my head, but listen, if I`ve been thinking this could be a fatal interaction with a cop, I would have gone
for his gun, I would have fought like a maniac. But I just thought, oh, he doesn`t understand anything, he doesn`t understand what I`m doing here.
What an a-hole thing to do and then I walked away.
BARNETT: I have to disagree. I don`t think that African-American families teach their young that --
PINSKY: But I`ve heard it a million times on this show.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: My parents did not teach me to be fearful of the cops. What taught me to be a little fearful of the cops is history. Look at it.
We`ve had so many --
PINSKY: I`m not saying it`s not for real. I`m saying, how do we stop it?
BARNETT: How do we stop it?
PINSKY: We`ve heard on this show multiple times, Vanessa, people going -- we`ve heard it.
BARNETT: We`ve heard it.
PINSKY: People telling their kids to watch out for the cops and if they come after you, you know, give up because they`re going to try to hurt
you. There`s a message that they will hurt you. And I think if they had already grabbed you open started to hurt you, you might think, they`re
really going to hurt me.
BARNETT: Absolutely. I think it`s more taught through history and it`s more of what we`ve seen and actually growing up and being taught, we
careful of the cops. We just need to be aware of our surroundings. We need to know that racism does exist and that is any aspect of life and any
facet. And so, I don`t go outside immediately thinking that the cops are going to shoot me. But when I`m pulled over, I have a heighten sense of
awareness.
PINSKY: Vanessa, now you correct me on this too. A friend of mine, an African-American friend, today told me -- he`s a journalist, done a lot
of stories about police brutality. He said, and he`s African-American, said the African-Americans fear African-American cops a little more because
they`re so busy being blue rather than black that they have to go a little further. Is anybody aware of that?
BARNETT: I hate to answer the question for the entire community. Every situation is different. And I can see where that has come into play.
PINSKY: It`s not about race then.
BARNETT: You can`t take one experience and say it`s everyone`s experience. I`ve had great experience with the cops, too.
PINSKY: Me, too.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: But Michael Brown isn`t. That`s what we`re saying. Trayvon Martin isn`t. That`s what we`re saying. Our fear is rooted in reality.
PINSKY: That`s right. And I`m trying to figure out, when I was having the conversation with myself, how do we change it? How do we stop
this ball from rolling down the hill? And maybe it`s about how we raise our kids or how we teach them to interact with the cops. I don`t know if
that`s the answer or not. Maybe that will make things worse. I don`t know.
Leeann, you seem to want to say something.
TWEEDEN: Well, Dr. Drew, I -- you know, we`re talking about this is the only time that a white police officer has shot and killed somebody in
the town of Ferguson. So, I don`t think -- maybe they`re a little rough with them. I don`t know that. I don`t live there. If that`s what people
are saying, then that`s probably true and they can learn from that.
But, Dr. Drew, the black on black crime, 91 percent to 93 percent, depending upon which poll do you look at, black crime is committed by black
people, over 80 percent are done with guns.
PINSKY: Go ahead, Vanessa.
BARNETT: White people don`t kill white people?
TWEEDEN: Of course, white people kill white people.
BARNETT: Killing is the problem.
(CROSSTALK)
TWEEDEN: -- when a white cop kills a black guy. I mean, why is that? What about the 26 people killed in Chicago last weekend?
PINSKY: You guys, I got to go to break. Sorry, I stirred this up.
(CROSSTALK)
BARNETT: -- the next time you say you don`t want to talk about the race. What it is, is America`s problem. White on white crime is just as
bad as black on black crime, and we`re trying to put the root of the issue on, well, black people kill black people, so, it shouldn`t be an issue.
Now, it`s all an issue. We`re upset about all of it. It`s all of it needs to change.
PINSKY: You`re right. And I was trying to bring something that would move this forward, I hope, in terms of making that change, because,
Vanessa, we`ve had the conversation in the show discussion repeatedly about that police force in Ferguson and other communities to reflect the
community, the racial cultural makeup, the cultural make up, or at least be exquisitely, culturally sensitive, to be community based in how they do
their operations.
And as Loni said earlier, to be using alternatives to lethal force. I mean, I think that`s just absolutely necessary. But maybe there`s more.
I`m just saying. Leave it there. Sorry. Sorry. But all good. All good.
Next up. Mike Brown`s cousin is here with us. He`s at the funeral. We`re going to hear from him.
And later, what was this woman doing with a fake baby in a maternity ward.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If President Obama hadn`t talked about this tragic situation in the first place and Al Sharpton and others hadn`t gone
to Ferguson, you wouldn`t have Molotov cocktails, you wouldn`t have the level -- the frenzied level of black people judging white people just based
on the color of their skin.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam and our behavior bureau, Evy Poumpouras, former special agent at Secret Service, Danine Manette, criminal investigator,
author of "Ultimate Betrayal", and Judy Ho, psychologist and professor at Pepperdine University.
Danine, did you hear what I was talking about in the last segment?
DANINE MANETTE, CRIMINAL INVESTIGATOR: I did. I heard all the fireworks.
PINSKY: Am I getting on to any -- I`m looking for solutions. That`s all. I was thinking about how different my experience was when a policeman
roughed me up, and if I had been taught in any way, watch out for the cops, they could harm, they`re going to kill you -- any of those kinds of message
from my parents, I would have thought this was about to be a terminal event and I would have gone insane. And the guy would have pulled his gun on me.
MANETTE: Well, it`s unfair to conclude (ph) everybody together and to say that black parents teach their kids to be fearful of the police. Like
I said a million times, my children aren`t afraid of the police. My children grew up in a law enforcement home.
PINKSY: But, Danine, let me stop you. But your kids probably don`t worry about the cops, right? They don`t -- my point is people are fearful
if they don`t warn their kids about the police, the kids are going to get hurt. Maybe it`s actually the opposite.
MANETTE: That`s something we need to be aware of. We need to teach our children when it is a good and proper time to fight a battle in the
street and when it is not. When it is -- is this the hill you want to die on at this time? We need to teach our children, all races, all people, how
to be respectful and recognize authority and realize when the person with - - the one with the gun is going to be the one that won. So, I just really need parents to take this as a teaching opportunity.
And even though you may be right, the street is not always the best play to fight your battles. Sometimes you need to suck it up and deal with
the situation until you can be in a safe place to advocate for yourself. That`s something that could have been very helpful, I think.
PINSKY: And, Evy, you get what I`m getting at here? Am I making myself clear, or am I just thinking of things that have no impact here?
EVY POUMPOURAS, SECURITY EXPERT: No, I understand what you`re saying. It`s about people not feeling threatened by police.
PINSKY: Or we were taught -- I was taught the police are your friend. As opposed to obedience, we talk about reliance and being respectful and
listening to somebody. Just being obedient already makes me feel a little defensive. You know what I mean?
POUMPOURAS: You know, I want to touch on something that you just mentioned. We`re talking about law enforcement and not being fearful of
them but also about teaching our children and teaching society to be respectful of law enforcement.
We`ve kind of been very one-sided with this. And I have to say, I`m speaking from experience. The majority of community, a lot of people are
not respectful. A lot of people do provoke law enforcement. I`ve had people provoked me, put hands on me, verbally provoked me.
These things happened. So, I think --
PINSKY: Why? What are they doing? What`s the point?
POUMPOURAS: People some -- well, it depends on who you`re dealing. Some people are involved in criminal activity and they do like to provoke
police. Some people don`t like police.
This is the thing: nobody is usually ever happy to see police. Police show up when somebody is getting in trouble, something is going to be.
PINSKY: Yes, right.
POUMPOURAS: And so, it`s not like the fire department when the fire department shows up, everyone is happy the fire department there to rescue
everybody.
But with law enforcement, usually somebody is in trouble in some capacity. Even when I was get pulled over when I was younger I would
cringe, oh, great, how is this going to go down, how am I going to be treated?
PINSKY: Right.
POUMPOURAS: So, I think, uniformly, we do have to also respect law enforcement as well, and I don`t think that is the underlying theme in
society. Most people do not.
PINSKY: And then, after a tragedy like --
MANETTE: You got to go both ways.
(CROSSTALK)
PINSKY: That`s I was going to say, Danine, we`re in the shadow of a tragedy here where it doesn`t go that way.
Judy, help me sort this out psychologically.
JUDY HO, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, psychologically, Dr. Drew, I understand your story. You know, I`ve had positive and negative
experiences with the police myself as we well.
I understand what you`re saying about like, where people are coming from in terms of their belief system. I think the problem -- one of the
main problems is here what I`m hearing now is all f these things about Michael Brown that somehow he wasn`t an angel, that somehow he was asking
for it. And, unfortunately, this is a psychological process as well, because we human beings are trying to make sense of how something like this
can happen.
Now, beyond the race issue, people are now looking at personality characteristics and saying he wasn`t a good person because then, that makes
it`s feel better somehow, that this happened. That`s just disgust me because that has nothing to do with what happened in the interaction.
PINSKY: OK. Hold on. Evy really wants to say something. She`s dying. Sam hasn`t even talked yet.
Go, Evy. Go ahead.
POUMPOURAS: I just want to say one thing with regard to Michael Brown and his character and everyone kind of slamming his character.
I don`t care what Michael Brown did, at the end of the day, when you take a life, you need to explain to that family, to that mother why that
life was taken. And whether it was a police officer`s life or Michael Brown`s life or anybody`s life, or even a criminal`s life, you need to
respect all life on all levels. No one life is more important than another.
So, character or not, I don`t care what Michael Brown did. You need to justify why he`s no longer here.
PINSKY: Yes, my daughter showed a cartoon today, I thought it was brilliant, where they show an Ivy League school, an Ivy League student --
graduate goes on a shooting campaign. What could have possibly happened? And then, this kid is killed and it`s like, oh, he smoked pot once. So,
he`s a horrible guy.
Sam, I want to give you a chance here and then I want to go Ty Pruitt. So, go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: I just want to respond to what Danine said. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I think that there needs to be a trust
built on both sides. There needs to be camaraderie again. We needed some more outreach. I feel that it`s been lost completely and I don`t know how
to build it back up.
PINSKY: Well, it`s funny. We start talking about it and we scatter. We run all over the place. Emotions run high.
I want to bring in Ty Pruitt. He`s Michael Brown`s cousin.
Ty, you were actually at the funeral today. Were you surprised by the outpouring of support?
TY PRUITT, MICHAL BROWN`S COUSIN: Absolutely not. I expected it.
PINSKY: And how was it today? Do you feel like -- I don`t know if you`ve had a chance to hear. We`ve been all over the place tonight trying
to think about solutions. I`m not sure this is the time to be having these conversations in the shadow of your cousin`s funeral.
PRUITT: Well, there`s no real time to have that conversation because nobody really wants to have that conversation. And the problem is, is that
nobody`s really comfortable with having that conversation. So I`m OK with it.
PINSKY: Well, everyone keeps saying it`s uncomfortable. He can`t have died in vain. We`ve got to have these uncomfortable conversations.
They have to be unflinchingly honest, which is why I`m trying to bring everything up I think of.
Let me switch gears and ask you, how is his family doing? How are you doing? Is -- are people -- I know they can`t be OK and, of course, our
thoughts are with them. Maybe you can give us an update on how they`re getting through.
PRUITT: Well, I mean, we`re not good, Drew. That would be -- I would be lying to you if I told you we were good.
My cousin was -- it`s not so much as my cousin passing. It`s the way he was taken. And that will stick with my family for the rest of our
lives. I have been listening a little bit to you guys and as far as them trying to taint my cousin`s character, that`s not even something that we`re
even -- you know, we knew who he was. He was a high school graduate. He - - this would have been his second week in college. He has a clean record.
So all the smear campaigns they could possibly run, it makes absolutely no sense to my family. We don`t even bother with that.
The only thing we want to know is why was he shot six to seven times?
PINSKY: Yes. And you said something powerful on this show, you said even -- let`s say there was a punch to the eye. Your cousin took a bullet
to the eye and five more.
PRUITT: Let me tell you this. Since I had this conversation with you on your show, I`ve been reached out to by some correctional officers that
work in a hardened prison and their response to me was -- Ty, we stand behind you and your family because what we face every day, we face hardened
criminals, we face lifers, we face death row inmates and they`re equipped with shanked and whatever else they can do to kill them and they take them
down with their hands. They`re not even allowed to have guns and they handle the situation.
So, they`re in support of me and my family saying that this cop -- and don`t get -- don`t ever get me wrong, Drew. I do not hate cops. My family
does not hate cops. I shook policemen`s hands today for -- and thank them for helping us pull off this funeral without a hitch. I absolutely like
the police.
PINSKY: I`m -- everything you just said there brings the conversation we`ve been having full circle. So, I have to leave it there. I know
you`ve had to do many interviews with the host just telling you about the time. They have such limitations. I`m the next in line with that.
And just know that our thoughts are with you an your family. No matter what side of this argument you find yourself, that you can`t be
anything but sad for this family, you just can`t. You can`t be.
And this brings us back to what we were talking about earlier which was the issue of nonlethal force. Why can`t you have nonlethal force as
the standard? Why can`t it be the standard?
All right. Thank you, everybody. We`re going to leave this. We`re going to move on to two other stories.
Now, it`s back to kids left in a car, this time police say the mort was sleeping it off in a bar.
Later, a woman with fake babies. Do people with these fake babies want a real one? Some hospital workers are suspicious that was the
motivation.
Back after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COURTNEY LAUSIER, CITY SPORTS SERVER: Barely talking. Barely walking, but like you could clearly tell she was intoxicated.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CORRESPONDENT: That is how city sports server Courtney Lausier described Kelsey James` behavior last night. She said
James stumbled into the bar around 11 P.M. Police were called around midnight and say they found a 22-year-old drunk and passed out at the bar.
She was immediately taken to Bristol Hospital. When James woke up at the hospital just after 5:00 this morning, things only got worse. She
started asking where her baby girl was. It turns out the 2-year-old was still in the parking lot. She was found by police sleeping in a car seat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Leeann, Loni and bringing in my love line co-host, Michael Catherwood. Toddler was taken to a hospital and released. She has
been cared for now by relatives. Her 22-year-old mother faces various charges, including risk of injury to a child. She is free after posting
$50,000 in bond. Loni, what is going on here?
LONI COOMBS, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Well, sounds like she got an alcohol problem and sounds like she is putting her child in the middle of that.
You know, it is one thing to have an addiction and to make the choice to drink to that point of excess.
PINSKY: Why did not the courts require her to get treatment before she walked out the courtroom doors?
COOMBS: Well, she has not been to court yet. She has only been -- she was arrested. She was in the -- I guess they took her to the hospital
and let her sleep it off.
PINSKY: Somebody had to send a bail, right?
COOMBS: Right -- No. No. Yes, she was released on whatever -- she posted bail and she was released. And, it might be part of her conditions.
We do not know that, yet. They can make going to AA or something like that part of her condition --
PINSKY: OK. All right. Well, good.
COOMBS: -- But, usually an extended program is part of her sentence. And, she has not gone to court actually to plead on that yet. But, I think
in this case, she needs more than just the alcohol treatment. I think there needs to be some punishment to make sure that she deterred from doing
it again.
PINSKY: Sure. Yes. It is like if you kill somebody drunk driving, too bad. Leeann, I know you love stories like this.
LEEANN TWEEDEN, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: You know, I wonder why women cannot even take care of themselves and young ones at that. She was either
19 or 20 when she had this young baby girl. She cannot even take care of herself, so what makes her think she can take care of a child. First of
all, we are lucky that she is not up for murder. We have seen too many times this year and every year, Dr. Drew that babies die in car seats. We
are lucky that it was night time and that baby was still alive when they found her.
PINSKY: Yes.
MIKE CATHERWOOD, RADIO HOST PERSONALITY: And, we are lucky it was in Connecticut. I mean if this was in a more hot environment, it could
potentially been even though it is overnight.
TWEEDEN: Right.
PINSKY: Sam.
SAMANTHA SCHACHER, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. Well, not only that, as far as the murder charge goes, she tried to get back into her car after
being intoxicated, but unfortunately she could not find it. She broke into the wrong car. Thought it was her car. If she would have found her car,
she may be looking at murder charges, because who knows if she would have made it home.
CATHERWOOD: And, might she have drove the car wasted to the bar, apparently.
SCHACHER: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: I mean think about that level of judgment.
PINSKY: Yes. But, how do you help people? I have trouble expressing to people how to understand blaming -- see, I blame her lack of involvement
in recovery, not her disease. And, yet he needs to be held accountable for the consequences of her disease too.
CATHERWOOD: Yes. Well, I mean there is an old saying that you cannot hold someone responsible for being an addict. You could certainly
hold them responsible for their recovery. And, yes, she is a very sick girl. She is in the depths of the disease very far. And, hopefully
through sobering kind of level clarity, she will be able to understand just how dangerous her behaviour is. Not only for herself but, obviously, for
her child.
PINSKY: You did horrible stuff -- hang on a second. You did horrible stuff in your disease, right?
CATHERWOOD: Terrible stuff.
PINSKY: But, by the grace of God you did not harm anybody.
CATHERWOOD: Well, I was, by the grace of God, not a parent.
PINSKY: Yes.
CATHERWOOD: When I was still active with my disease --
PINSKY: And, how do you reconcile that old you with the new you in what almost happened? And, what do you tell people about that?
CATHERWOOD: I mean when I look at a girl like this, who is 22 with a 2-year-old, I think to myself I was 20 when I was still active in my
disease. And, I was so lucky to not have anybody else`s life, you know, to be my responsibility, because I was completely incapable of taking care of
myself.
I think that a girl at this age, she is so naive as is. When you couple that with crippling alcoholism, I really do think that there is
hope, even though what she has done is heinous. And, I do think she should face tremendous punishment. I do think that there is hope for her to
really become a great parent.
TWEEDEN: Dr. Drew, you know, I found it funny that they say that the daughter was released to family members. We always say it takes -- I
cannot believe none of her family knew she had a problem and was not helping her.
SCHACHER: And, where is the father?
PINSKY: It is always the question.
TWEEDEN: Yes. Thank you. No mention of that.
PINSKY: And, it is a genetic disorder. So, other people have it. There got to be some recovery in people in this. Hopefully, they will pick
her up and take her to some meetings and some treatments.
SCHACHER: Absolutely.
PINSKY: Next up, I got some update on the hot car dad and what is going on with that case and how it compares with this one. And, later, a
woman wearing scrubs, holding one of these dolls -- there near a maternity ward. What was she up to? This is a whole creepy thing. We are going to
get into it after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PINSKY: I am back with Sam and our Behavior Bureau, Evy Poumpouras, Erica America, TV Host and Psychotherapist, and Judy Ho is with us as well.
Police found a 2-year-old asleep in a car seat alone for more than five hours. Mom drunk in the bar. Judy, how do we understand this?
JUDY HO, PH.D., CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, Dr. Drew, unfortunately, there is a lot of parents doing this as you know from the statistics.
There are just so many parents who are irresponsible. Do not have the right education to understand that this is not safe.
Whatever her intentions were, I do not think it is very sinister, but that does not make it OK. But, I know a lot of people are in favor of her
just going to jail and being punished. But, guess what, the system biases returning the child to the parents. So, if we leave her without the
parenting skills, nothing is going to get better. So, she needs treatment.
PINSKY: Right. Treating -- Giving her parenting skills and treating her alcoholism. Speaking of sinister, I want to update you on a case that
people have thought of as sinister. That is the Ross Harris case, charged with living his toddler in a hot car. The boy died. Harris remains behind
bars. His wife continues to support him.
CNN obtained a copy of her victim impact statement. It reads in part, quote -- you guys are going to love this. Here it is, "Ross was a
wonderful father. He loved Cooper with all of his heart. Whatever issues transpired in our marriage is between God and us for he will judge those
moral sins." Sam, what I am wondering here, you know, I have been saying that -- I think she is talking about sex addiction when she is talking
about his moral sins.
SCHACHER: Right.
PINSKY: Are we talking about a similar situation on that case, that it was an addiction and this case it is alcoholism?
SCHACHER: I cannot relate the two, Dr. Drew. I see when you are speaking of addiction, but with Justin Ross Harris there is an element of
premedication that we know of --
PINSKY: Maybe. Maybe.
SCHACHER: -- Maybe. Allegedly. And, I think that alleged premeditation that leads people to think that his was far more sinister.
PINSKY: Evy, did I see you smile when Sam said premeditation or you might be looking at something else?
EVY POUMPOURAS, ON-AIR SECURITY AND INVESTIGATIVE ANALYST: I am smiling at what you read; the statement that the mother said. Hear me out,
because I cannot help to dissect it when I see that.
PINSKY: Go ahead. Let`s do it.
(LAUGHING)
POUMPOURAS: All right. Just hear me out. Usually a huge sign of deception or something nefarious going on is when people invoke religion
when they talk about, I swear to God" and "God only knows."
PINSKY: Are not they deceiving themselves many times as well as anybody else though, right?
POUMPOURAS: Yes. That is a huge sign of deception. Actually, when somebody would invoke God in the room, and say, "God only knows," "It is
between me and God," it was just something we were actually schooled on, that person is deceptive.
Usually if somebody is honest, they do not need to bring God or anything else into it. Your word is strong enough. So, yes, she is
deceptive. The other thing is, you know, it is possible she is defending the father because she is part of it and she does not want him to turn
around and nail her.
PINSKY: Right. Interesting. Erica, what do you say to that?
ERICA AMERICA, T.V. HOST AND PSYCHOTHERAPIST: Yes. Well, what I want to say is both involved, you know, bad judgment and putting children at
risk, but these are not apples to apples. These are totally different. Sam hit it right on the head. One is far more sinister, where he was
potentially trying to kill her son. The other is just horrible decision- making, but she is not a bad person.
And, Mike said it before. She has the potential to become a really good mother and I just hope that this miracle, because it is a miracle, the
fact that this baby is still alive and is not one of the statistics of the many children who are killed, she has a break through and has a realization
that, you know, I need to re-evaluate my life and get into sobriety, and kind of live a life of recovery. So, I am really hoping that this is the
impetus for that for her.
PINSKY: I am so fascinated. Go ahead.
HO: Please use birth control.
PINSKY: What is that, Judy?
HO: I am sorry. I am just -- the public service message, please use birth control, everybody. Seriously.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: Listen. I have been advocating that for 30 years. And, so far, it is better by the way. Teen pregnancy is at an all-time low since
it has been on record. The lowest has been in something like 50 years. And, the accelerated rate of clients associated with the MTV show 19 and
pregnant. It seems that, that got through with the kids with the consequences. That is why they get through with it, you show them
consequences of their choices. Next up, the case of a woman in scrubs with a fake baby near a maternity ward. Why? We will get into this after this.
It is a fake baby.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CORRESPONDENT: These two pictures depicting Tonya and her husband with life-like dolls.
TONYA WHITNEY, ARRESTED FOR BRINGING LIFE-LIKE DOLLS TO GAIN ACCESS IN MERCY MEDICAL CENTER: I am sorry for the misunderstanding. If I had knew
that this would happen, I would not have done it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE CORRESPONDENT: Her husband was getting treated and they figured why not showcase the dolls. They said it is her business.
She takes them with her wherever she goes.
WHITNEY: It is just the comfort. I did not mean to make anybody feel threatened.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Back with Sam, Loni, Leeann, Mike Catherwood. The woman you just saw raised some flags at the hospital when he attempted to get into
their maternity ward carrying -- where people are calling life-like, I call it creepy dolls.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: Thank you, Sam. She apparently is one of the, so-called, reborns. She makes reborn dolls and was hoping -- we think, perhaps, to
sell them in the hospital to use as therapy, perhaps. They are trying to figure it out. Police did not buy the story in any event. Cited her for
trespassing. Sam, help me. You know, I went on to their website and I was totally creeped out by the whole reborn thing.
SCHACHER: Yes. And, some of these dolls, I went on e-Bay, I went a step further than you did and some people are in bidding wars spending
$1500 on these creepy-ass dolls. But, Dr. Drew, listen. It just does not add up. If this woman was trying to sell these babies, why was she
misrepresenting herself in scrubbing at a hospital?
PINSKY: Right.
SCHACHER: Why did she lie to the police and tell the police that she had a meeting with the nurses when they could not corroborate her story?
She was lying about that, what else is she lying about?
PINSKY: And, Loni, you had a knowing smile when we are talking about how creep out we are. Where are you in this?
COOMBS: The dolls do creep me out. I agree with you. They make me nervous, just looking at them. However, I do not see there is dark intent
behind what she said. And, even the police said, we do not see any evidence of that. I think she was trying in her own little way to market
these dolls. You know, she did say she carries them around with her everywhere.
And, to get into the maternity ward, some of the people who like to use these dolls are women who have lost babies, who have miscarried. And,
they find comfort in holding these babies. So, that might have been a place she thought she might find potential customers wearing a gown, you
know? She thought it might give some credibility to her.
And, as soon as they told her to leave, she left. And, even the trespassing charge, they probably are going to have a hard time proving
that, because she never really got to a place where she is not allowed to be, thank heavens, because their security was so good. It was in place and
they were right on top of it. I really give great kudos to the police security there.
PINSKY: Leeann, I am dying the look on your face -- let me just say this. No record that she was a seller of reborn dolls. She owns at least
two of them. Go ahead, Leeann.
TWEEDEN: Well, obviously, I think she is mentally not right. We do not have one of our psychiatrists on the show. You can probably explain
more of that. But, you know, I tried to research if she had lost a baby.
PINSKY: She had?
COOMBS: Yes.
TWEEDEN: One report said that she had cervical cancer, so that is why she could not have kids. But, I think maybe that might be -- she might have
gone off the deep edge when she had these kids. But you do not wear scrubs to the hospital for a second time. Her husband was in there earlier, so
she went back. I mean, what? I am going the take these babies and go into the maternity ward and see if the nurses will buy these babies for the
hospital? It is like person selling surgical equipment. You do not go find the surgeons while they are in the surgery room and go, "Hey, do you
want to buy a new table for your surgery room?"
PINSKY: Especially when you are not a salesman. It is just very bizarre.
TWEEDEN: She is just crazy. And, you know what? I just gave birth 11 months ago. OK? I did not choose to wear scrubs. I do not even own
scrubs and os not a nurse, so what is she doing with them?
PINSKY: Right.
TWEEDEN: She was completely lying. I might have worn my baby jeans that have a stretchy top a little too long, but I was not wearing a nurse
scrubs.
PINSKY: OK, Mike, are you wearing those stretchy jeans?
CATHERWOOD: Yes. Currently, I am. Unfortunately, she did loss a baby, but she lost it in her foopa Dr. Drew? And, I do like the
authenticity of this doll. At least she was not so insulting as to buy an attractive fake baby. It is a haggard beat up ginger baby just like she
is.
PINSKY: Careful.
CATHERWOOD: And, I just feel like what is the end game at dressing up like a medical professional and taking a fake baby to the maternity ward?
TWEEDEN: Thank you.
CATHERWOOD: I can understand if it gives you comfort taking it to like the park and pretending. But what was the end game going to the place
where there is a bunch of real babies and people who know real babies?
PINSKY: We will get into that and continue the conversation after this.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WHITNEY: I take them places with me for advertisement purposes because obviously they speak for themselves.
CAPT. TOM TRINIDAD, MERCED POLICE CAPTAIN: It could be suspicious. Of course the assumption could be made that she was there for the purposes
of switching out a fake life-like baby with a real baby.
WHITNEY: For the sake of security, I have never even considered taking them up into the hospital. I did not mean to make anybody feel
threatened or scared or freaked out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PINSKY: Vanessa, Erica, and Mike are with me. We are talking about that woman who showed up at the maternity ward. I know Erica you are doing
to talk about this, but let me set it up first. I will get to you right now. She was wearing hospital scrubs, carrying a life-like baby, a so-
called a reborn baby. They are collectors and they hunt dollars sometimes for these life-like babies. They usually interact with the dolls as if
they were newborns. So, Erica, you are dying to tell us your thoughts. Go ahead.
AMERICA: Yes. OK. Let us be honest. This is cabbage patch dolls for adults with emotional problems. Let us be serious. This is extremely
disturbing. When you are an adult, who is somewhat healthy, you do not play with little dolls. The only exception would be, and I am not schooled
in it, some type of therapy maybe for grief counselling --
PINSKY: Maybe. I have never heard about that, though.
AMERICA: I do not even know about that.
PINSKY: Yes. I do not either.
AMERICA: I never even heard of that. And, that would be with a trained professional. So, I looked at this stuff. This is very different.
There is something that is either obsessional or fetish act to it, in a fact that there is so much online about it.
And, I would not be surprised if there was something paedophilic about it, as well. With this young woman -- not young woman but older
woman, it seems more like, you know, it could be an obsession like she did not have kids so she is obsessing about this. But, then it could also go
like I said, the paedophilic way. So, I just think that this is very scary and this is just frightening.
PINSKY: All right, Vanessa, your thoughts?
VANESSA BARNETT, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: First of all, I do not trust anybody with a mullet and a fake baby. This lady is trying to get into the
hospitals. She is a baby snatcher waiting for her opportunity. I do not think we are taking this seriously enough. Forget trespassing.
She is on the verge of snatching someone`s child and she is wearing scrubs because nothing else fits? Lady, you could have worn that tank top.
But, I am not buying any part of this story. And, if she would gotten through those doors, Lord, knows what could have happened.
PINSKY: And, Sam -- We did reach out this the woman to give her side of the story. She is not responding, but go ahead, Sam.
SCHACHER: Well, first of all, I rocked a mullet for many years now --
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: You did not.
SCHACHER: I did. My mom cut my hair into a mullet. Whatever.
(LAUGHING)
PINSKY: I like when Mike -- I guess he did. I knew it.
SCHACHER: But, I do think -- OK, not only do they have these -- they are called reborns? Is that correct, Dr. Drew?
PINSKY: Yes.
SCHACHER: OK. Reborners have these creepy dolls, but a lot of them spend a lot of money getting the equipment and set up nurseries and have
baby appointments. What does that say about them?
PINSKY: To me it is just obsession.
AMERICA: Yes. It is obsessional.
CATHERWOOD: If you have to buy a fake baby --
PINSKY: But, Mike. Mike, why is it different? These are not men doing this unless they are --
CATHERWOOD: Yes, they are. I guarantee there are plenty of men doing it.
PINSKY: But, why is it qualitatively different than people buying dolls in a toy store?
CATHERWOOD: Buying what?
PINSKY: Little girls play with dolls. One of the weird things that happen when people get a lot older and get dementia, they start playing
with dolls again.
CATHERWOOD: OK. Someone a lot older. She looked not that old. She looked like her breath wreaks of menthols and she looks like she has made
some bad choices with tattoo ink. But, I am thinking so myself, how many cats do you have to have before you graduate to the fake babies?
PINSKY: Erica likes that. Erica, you think that is the Same person?
AMERICA: It really goes outside like social norms. Of course, we could ask the question you just said Dr. Drew, why should not adults be
able to play and be creative. Why does it have to stop after childhood? That is a different whole story. But, in our society when you become an
adult you stop playing with baby dolls.
PINSKY: Or I guess it is sort of a bigger question, why are we so creep out? The more life-like the doll gets some more creep out we get.
SCHACHER: Yes.
PINSKY: You know what I mean? It is interesting.
CATHERWOOD: This just in, though. Sam is going to watch a buy optic about this lady on the lifetime movie network.
PINSKY: She probably will. Forensic Files to the rescue, up next.
END
