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Dangerous Places for U.S. Journalists; 2nd American ISIS Fighter; Child Kills Gun Instructor; Inside Syria

Aired August 27, 2014 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN ANCHOR: Hi there, I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Let's begin with this freed American, just absolutely overwhelmed with emotion, fighting back tears at some points when he spoke out publicly, first morning back home. Here he is. This is Peter Theo Curtis, reuniting with his family after being held hostage for nearly two years by militants in Syria. The journalist offering a heartfelt thank you to the hundreds of people who worked for his release. Just the relief you can see in his eyes and the joy in his heart were a stark contrast to these grim images from his time in captivity, a nightmare that lasted some 22 months.

Curtis was held prisoner by al Nusra Front, that's a Syrian group with ties to al Qaeda. Curtis, speaking today, says he'll tell the rest of his story later, once he spends a little time with his family, once he's bonded properly with his mother and his family and recovered from this horrendous ordeal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER THEO CURTIS, FREED JOURNALIST: First of all, I want to thank you all for coming out here this beautiful Wednesday morning. In the days following my release on Sunday, I have learned bit by bit that there have been literally hundreds of people, brave, determined and big- hearted people all over the world working for my release. They have been working for two years on this. I had no idea when I was in prison - I had no idea that so much effort was being expended on my behalf. And now having found out, I am just overwhelmed with emotion.

I'm also overwhelmed by one other thing, and that is that total strangers have been coming up to me and saying, hey, we're just glad you're home. Welcome home. Glad you're back. Glad you're safe. Great to see you. So I suddenly remember how good the American people are and what kindness they have in their hearts. And to all those people, I say a huge thank you from my heart -- from the bottom of my heart.

And now, look, I am so grateful that you are expressing all this interest in me. At the same time, I have to bond with my mother and my family now, and I can't give you an interview and I can't give you a talk back and forth.

QUESTION: Can you tell us what it feels like?

CURTIS: And I - that's all I can say to you. But, in the future, I promise I will respond to your e-mails and I will be present and I will help you guys do your job. And I'm one of you and I know what you guys are going through, so I want to help you guys and I will be there and I will respond, but I can't do it now.

Thanks very much.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So he is heading home to spend some much-needed time with his family. But, unfortunately, for several of the people you're seeing on the screen, the outcome is different. You're looking at the middle picture, captured American journalist James Foley. He never got to come home. He was beheaded by ISIS militants. The gentleman on the far right, American Steven Sotloff, is still being held by that same terrorist group.

So, Robert Young Pelton, let me bring you in. A journalist, documentary filmmaker and author of "The World's Most Dangerous Places." Robert, welcome back to the show.

ROBERT YOUNG PELTON, AUTHOR, "THE WORLD'S MOST DANGEROUS PLACES": Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: I want to get into your own personal ordeal being held hostage in Colombia, in South America. But, first, let me just ask this. You know, for these journalists going into incredibly dangerous places such as Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan, what is the number one risk?

PELTON: Well, in Syria, it's obviously being kidnapped. There was a large group of journalists who all stayed in the same hotels, hired the same fixers. And about the time that Jabhat al Nusra and ISIS came into being, there was a lot of interest in finding out if there were foreign fighters against them. So there's a lot of paranoia on the fighter side and a huge rush of novice and freelance journalist. So it created an environment that led to a number of kidnappings over 2012 and 2013.

BALDWIN: But kidnappings - to me it seems like everything I've read about Syria, Robert, also it's the variable of the unknown. U.S. doesn't have much intelligence there. Perhaps that's part of these surveillance flights, you know, overhead. But wouldn't that be a huge disadvantage being held in a place like Syria?

PELTON: Well, you know, as you've seen from the impact, the death Mr. Foley had, one person can change the foreign policy of an entire nation. So hostages have a huge value now in this asymmetrical warfare of terrorism.

These groups, which are funded by Qatar and Saudi Arabia, are also sort of splitting their allegiances. So they're keeping these hostages as sort of aces in the hole. So you can see how they're being used differently. Some are murdered, some are released and some you never hear from again.

BALDWIN: It was Qatar, from what I read, that really did help secure Curtis' release. But to you, Robert, to your kidnapping in Colombia by the death squads in 2002, can you just share a little bit about that and the hardship and how did you survive?

PELTON: Well, what you learn is when you're kidnapped is that you worry more about other people, because you're dealing with the situation hour by hour. But you start thinking about your loved ones and your friends and people that have no idea what's going on. They have no idea whether you're going to be murdered or set free. And, luckily, the group that kidnapped me, when they finally were able to get my name out to their leader, he remembered me from an interview I'd set up. His name was Carlos Castano (ph). And he sent a very strange press release to Reuters saying I was being held for my safety so I wouldn't be kidnapped. So he was able to mask his kidnapping and I was released, along with two other people.

But the situation in the Middle East is much, much more serious. I mean these people are held for years. They're used as propaganda tools. And it makes our coverage of conflict very, very difficult.

BALDWIN: What was your darkest moment when you were in Colombia?

PELTON: The initial ambush in which the death squads jumped out of the bush, you know, pointing weapons at us after they had just killed a couple of Indians (ph). My biggest fear was I was with two young people who probably weren't as experienced and I felt very bad for their safety. So that was really my darkest moment. I occupy myself with storing food, seeing how long they let me go to the bathroom. And there's a number of things you do to test your captors. And like I said, I was not held for years like these gentlemen were.

BALDWIN: One other American journalist, Steven Sotloff, he's being held. In fact, we saw him, you know, on his knees in a similar orange jumpsuit in that James Foley video. And we have now heard from and seen Sotloff's mother. Ms. Sotloff made an emotional plea today for the release of her son. Let me play that for our viewers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHIRLEY SOTLOFF, STEVEN SOTLOFF'S MOTHER: Steven has no control over the actions of the U.S. government. He's an innocent journalist. I've always learned that you, the caliphate, can grant amnesty. I ask you to please release my child. As a mother, I ask your justice to be merciful, and not punish my son for matters he has no control over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: Robert, how do you think her plea could help or perhaps hurt her son's cause?

PELTON: Sadly, I don't think it has any impact. You have to remember, the narrative of these Islamic groups is, as you see from the orange jumpsuits, is that a number of atrocities and inequities have been dealt to the Islamic public - and public civilians in numerous countries. And so they're basically saying, look, you know, we don't care. We don't have any mercy towards you.

The other thing is that there is a dirty game being played. I mean the gentleman that was just released, who we know as Michael (ph) Curtis, is actually Theo Padnose (ph), who was famous for going under cover in the mosques and Madrassas (ph) in Yemen and these groups are paranoid so they don't know who they have. They don't know if they have a journalist or whether they have a spy or whether they have an aide worker. Obviously, I entreat (ph) all of these groups to let these people go and let them conduct their business as journalists. But it's a very difficult, dangerous business.

BALDWIN: Talking to someone who was kidnapped in Syria later in the show and he came home and he says, that's it, he's finished, because of a lot of the polarization and the way Americans even perceive some of these hardened, brazened journalists these days. Robert Young Pelton, thank you so much for joining me.

We are learning much more today about the man believed to be the first American to fight and to die for the brutal terror group ISIS. He is Douglas McArthur McCain. He was just 33 years of age. Had a child. Was killed over the weekend in a battle with another terror group. This is just outside of Aleppo, that's Syria's largest city. Doug McCain grew up outside of Minneapolis in a suburb. He was raised Christian, but converted to Islam a couple of years ago. An old friend remembers he was a nice, quiet kid, had a big heart, loved playing basketball. McCain had a few minor scrapes with the law. His family is stunned.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENYATA MCCAIN, COUSIN IDENTIFIED AS AMERICAN ISIS FIGHTER: It's mind- blowing. It's crazy. I don't understand it. I don't even believe it. I'm in shock. Like, I don't even know how to feel. My cousin was not a terrorist. He is not a terrorist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So the family is in shock. But I want you to take a look at just some of the tweets from McCain's account. His bio, it's Islam over everything. His tweets, joining you guys soon. Quote, "I'm with the brothers now," increasingly sympathetic with ISIS when you read what he's put out there. And that put him squarely in the sights of U.S. intelligence. And now we're getting word here that in addition to McCain, there is a second American who may have been killed along with McCain on that ISIS battlefield.

CNN Justice reporter Evan Perez is joining me with more on that newer report. Evan, I mean how credible is this claim that it wasn't just McCain as an American, but a second American to be killed fighting for ISIS?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN JUSTICE REPORTER: Well, Brooke, the short answer is, we don't know just yet. The American government says that they're checking this out. Obviously, it is something that they're taking very seriously.

This group, by the way, posted pictures of McCain and his passport and pictures of his body. So they -- that's how officials were able to confirm that it is indeed the person that they thought. In the case of the second American, the alleged second American, they haven't done that, it appears. So that is something the government is still trying to check out.

They know, for instance, that there are over a dozen Americans that they believe that have joined ISIS and are fighting over there among over 100 Americans that are fighting, you know, in other groups in Syria. So it's something that they're definitely taking seriously.

BALDWIN: All right, Evan Perez, thank you so much.

Still ahead, CNN speaks with two ISIS fighters who tell our own correspondent, it would be an honor to behead a non-believer. The interview is chilling. We'll play part of it for you coming up.

Also a story that's got a lot of people shaking their heads. A nine- year-old girl, she's got like a ponytail and pink shorts at a gun range, accidentally kills her instructor using a powerful submachine gun. Did the instructor break the rules? Should she have been there in the first place? We now know whether there will be charges. Stay right here.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: You're watching CNN. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

We have to talk about this Arizona shooting some people are calling a freak accident, others a bad idea from the get-go. It has left one man dead and a little girl absolutely devastated.

Here's the story. A nine-year-old accidentally killed her shooting instructor Monday with an uzi submachine gun. And sheriff's officials just announced there will be no charges. OK, no charges here. We're showing you this video at the gun range just to help you understand what happened. You see the instructor here giving this little girl a lesson. The little girl, by the way, lives in New Jersey.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK, turn your -- this leg forward. There you go, just like that. All right. Go ahead and give me one shot. All right!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: So the Mojave County Sheriff's Office says seconds after that clip, the girl pulled the trigger again and then the recoil sent the gun up over her head, where her instructor was standing, 39-year-old, Charles Baca, who was hit and killed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SAM SCAMARDO (ph), GUN RANGE OWNER: Well, a nine-year-old gets an uzi in her hand when -- they're within the criteria is eight years old to shoot firearms. We instruct kids as young as five on .22 rifles and they don't get to handle high firearms but they're under the supervision of their parents and of our professional range masters.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BALDWIN: OK, I have lots and lots and lots of questions for you, Jean Casarez. So let's just begin with -- first with what we know. We explained that it -- after the recoil, went over her head and hit him, and that's what killed him.

JEAN CASAREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Right. And let me add to that because the ballistic expert that I've been talking to is saying that this is a submachine pistol. And when you pull the trigger, since it's automatic, the bullets just start coming out one after the other.

BALDWIN: OK.

CASAREZ: And the recoil, meaning it goes back when you shoot it, and she just lost control of the gun it appears as though. But I think what's interesting is this outdoor shooting range. This is an outdoor shooting range near Hoover Dam, near Lake Mead, outside of Las Vegas.

BALDWIN: OK.

CASAREZ: They specialize in shooting machine guns and specialty weapons. So when you go there as a family and you take your child -

BALDWIN: You're going to shoot an uzi or what have you.

CASAREZ: You know what they're going to be shooting.

BALDWIN: OK, this is a question that at least this was first on my mind is, how can you have a nine-year-old girl - I mean I totally get it, guns rights, you know, if you can lawfully shoot a gun. But at nine? Is she big enough, strong enough, tall enough, capable?

CASAREZ: She looked pretty frail, right? And that would be for a gun expert. But what you're driving at is, there are weapons for children. There are guns for children. Remember, bb guns, I mean, and then there are also even rifles.

BALDWIN: But an uzi, Jean?

CASAREZ: But this is a submachine pistol.

BALDWIN: And so no charges. We just learned, no charges have been filed.

CASAREZ: We have just confirmed that there will be no charges at all in this case, according to the Mojave County Sheriff's Department. It's going to be an investigation by OSHA (ph) now, which traditionally, Brooke, is accidents in the workplace. And so this instructor, Charles Vacca, who died, 39 years old, we believe he's a young married man.

BALDWIN: So sad.

CASAREZ: He was an employee. And so this would be classified as a workplace killing, shooting.

BALDWIN: So you covered a similar case back in 2008? Tell me about that.

CASAREZ: There was a case in Massachusetts in 2008. It was a gun show. And it was a little boy who was shooting with an uzi, the same thing, and he shot and killed himself. And his -- the man that put together the gun show was charged, not his father, who was videotaping it. And by the way, somebody videotaped this little girl in Arizona. We believe it may have been her family. But what was a shooting sportsman type event is now being videotaped. The reasons we don't know. But sometimes parents are proud of their children, right?

BALDWIN: I mean, at nine years of age, you are old enough to know what has happened and to remember that the rest of your life.

CASAREZ: I know.

BALDWIN: Jean Casarez, thank you. Thank you very much.

CASAREZ: Thank you, Brooke.

BALDWIN: Just ahead, what drives young men, especially westerners, to join jihad? CNN speaks with these two fighters in Syria and a chilling interview. Do not miss that.

Also ahead, as President Obama considers action inside Syria, my next guest says the U.S. has no idea what's going on there. Hear why, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BALDWIN: As President Obama is now weighing his options for a possible strike against ISIS inside of Syria, my next guest says America knows very little about what's happening there. He is Joshua Keating. He wrote a piece for slate.com called, we have no idea what's going on inside of Syria.

Joshua, welcome.

JOSHUA KEATING, WRITER, SLATE.COM: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: So let's just begin with the president. You know we -- we know he has plans on the table or has been presented with plans on what to do with Syria. He's -- based upon everything we've seen, been very analytical in Iraq or Afghanistan. He has made calls based upon, you know, years of experience the U.S. has had on the ground. But what intelligence does Obama really have in Syria? How would he make that kind of call?

KEATING: Well, from what we know, it's fairly limited. And I think that's part of the reason why whatever operation that we are going to carry out in Syria is beginning with these surveillance flights. I mean, in Iraq, of course, there were 200 U.S. advisers sent a few weeks before air strikes against ISIS began. And, of course, is a country we have -- the U.S. military has a lot of experience fighting in. And, you know, when the U.S. carries out drone strikes against al Qaeda targets in places like Yemen or Pakistan, it's generally done with at least the tacit acceptance of those governments.

BALDWIN: Yes.

KEATING: In Syria, the situation is a little different. We're dealing with a hostile government that has pledged to defend its air space.

BALDWIN: You bring up those surveillance flights. Here's my question to you. Is that the signal that something is imminent, or that is the beginning of likely months of intelligence gathering before anything happens?

KEATING: Yes, my expectation is going -- would be that this is going to move pretty slowly. I mean what we've seen from this president is that he's very reluctant to get intervened and -- to intervene in Syria. We've seen that over the course of this war. And -- but this is definitely the closest we've appeared to taking action in Syria since last year when air strikes were threatened over the country's chemical weapons program.

But, you know, I think is there a growing - and we've seen this with a statement from the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff this week - there's a growing acceptance that there's no way to effectively turn back ISIS unless they address both sides of the Syria and Iraqi border. If we only attack ISIS on the Iraqi side, they can simply melt back and regroup on the Syrian side. So if we're really serious about turning this group back, then operations on both sides of the border are going to be necessary. I think the question is, how ambitious is this president really going to be about ISIS?

BALDWIN: Sure.

KEATING: Is the goal just to contain it or to permanently degrade its capabilities?

BALDWIN: Well, from listening to you bring up Chairman Martin Dempsey and also Secretary of Defense Chuck Hagel, we heard from them a couple of days ago saying it seems like more imminently perhaps the goal is contain and then long-term, I mean, you know, ISIS militants or whatever iteration of ISIS was in recent years, you know, has been there a long time. So you're saying it will be a while to evict them, to destroy them, which ultimately seems to be the goal.

But what about this, because we also heard from those two, you know, top brass at DOD saying we know that there was this covert operation to rescue James Foley in Syria. We found out about that last week, which, you know, unfortunately, was unsuccessful. But that at least tells me, you know, that U.S. has some sort of intelligence, you know, guys on the ground getting something out of Syria. It's not like we haven't been there, period.

KEATING: Sure, that's definitely true. And for several years now, you know, there's been at least some CIA effort to arm rebel groups within Syria. These are the rebels who are fighting both against Bashar al Assad's government and against ISIS. There are a number of factions. And we've been working to sort of vet the groups that are receiving these weapons.

You know, we don't know a lot about exactly how this program works and exactly how many assets are on the ground, whether they're in Syria or operating out of Turkey or another neighboring country. But, you know, I think it's certainly safe to say that -- and, you know, from what the statements we've heard from military leaders in the last few days that they don't feel quite comfortable launching a military operation yet and would like to gather some more information before a full-scale strikes are launched, if they ever are.

BALDWIN: Right. Which, to your point, will take a little bit of time, some months at least. Joshua Keating, thank you so much.

And I want to just stay on Syria. There's so much to talk about. I mean just think about this. You have ISIS killing the rebels who are fighting against Bashar al Assad. The U.S. may try and kill ISIS. So both scenarios there would be support by Assad, one of America's biggest enemies. We'll discuss Assad's position currently.

And more on our breaking news here. We're learning a CDC employee may have been exposed to Ebola. Those details coming up. You're watching CNN.

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